Subconscious 'announcement' of new cheating partner?

[tvda]

Damn… My head is spinning here… My uBPD partner just brutally discarded me, right at the point we were about to make a major step in life and commitment…

And I think she sort of unintentionally or subconsciously misspoke and announced a new cheating partner… Does anybody else have this experience of their BPD partner actually divulging, in an indirect way, that there’s a new guy?

Here’s the timeline which feels soo suspicious to me:

• Wednesday we made a life-defining commitment to eachother… Which surprised me because it’s something I had been asking for for almost a year to no avail.
• Thursday I sort of felt things were ‘off’ in the sense that she did not really share my excitement and happiness at our new commitment and future together.
• Friday she called me and told me she had gotten a phone-call from an old flame who wanted to tell her he had been thinking about her lately and wanted to meet up. She of course claimed to have denied this request, but… The timing was really weird to me. Really? In the exact week we made this decision? She also mentioned that they had always really had a remaining ‘tension’ for eachother. I was like… wait, what? We are about to start living together and you just blurt out that there is still tension between you and another guy?
• Saturday she, really casually, mentioned that she had cheated on her previous two partners by the end of the relationship. A blow to me, to just get that info plainly stated right at the point we were making a big step together (where trust is important, of course).
• Saturday evening she was having dinner with her two young daughters and was seeing a female friend later on. I naively asked her to send a picture of her having dinner with her daughters, just because I like to share the enjoyment from afar. This is something she always did freely in the past. This time I got two weird pictures… One of a dinner table, but just the tableware, no persons in the pic. The photo was clearly in blueish evening tones. The second was a photo of her daughter. In bright sunlight – so from a different time of day…
  Later that day I offered to come over to enjoy the evening together. She didn’t reply.

And then the final conversation:

• Sunday she was super-irritated with me, because I had asked to send a photo of her and her daughters the day before, and wanted to come over. Her words were “I felt as if you were checking up on me, as if I had to prove that I was really there with my daughters and not somebody else.” A very weird comment. The type of comment that seems to say a lot about what is on her mind. Why would I be trying to ascertain she was really there with her daughters and not someone else?
• Finally I told her that it was hurtful to me to have heard, the day before, that she had actually cheated on her past two partners, and that it made me anxious about trusting her. She replied, really irritatedly, that if I had so little trust in her then we had no future together and that this was the end of our relationship. Four days after making a big commitment in our life together.

So… What do you think? Does anyone have similar experiences of this: a discard right at the time a big commitment is made, and even moreso: weird paranoid comments and the ‘introduction’ of an old flame. It almost feels as if her subconscious mind introduced all the relevant themes in a couple days time:

• Contact with an old flame and the mention that there has always remained a certain tension between them.
• Divulging that she had cheated repeatedly in the past, right at the end of her relationships.
• Paranoid remarks about have to prove that she is with her daughters and not someone else, and failing to send a picture that shows otherwise.

Feeling a bit sick to my stomach here...

[Sappho11]

I'm sorry you're going through this. It does ring familiar.

Before the first breakup of my ex and me (we'd known one another four two years and been together for four months), the week went as follows:

Monday: We're sitting on the couch, arm in arm, discussing our future. He says to me: "Don't expect me to propose within the first year. *wink wink* But after that..." We talk about having children, and that we both want to have them in two or three years' time.

Tuesday: I tell him that I'm glad to have found him, and that I had long been sick of the dating culture where you're expected to date multiple people at the same time, that it just feels icky to me. My ex (who has never experienced this because he's never been single and has always prided himself on his loyalty): "Well, to be fair, I would probably have to do it too, because what if it doesn't work out with one girl? You've got to have others to fall back on."

Tuesday night we talk on the phone. He's suddenly very cold. I don't know what's going on, and try to cheer him up. To no avail. He asks me to send him a song I'd shown him. He texts back heart and kiss emojis (which he never does). I'm concerned.

Wednesday and Thursday pass with great anguish. I have a feeling that something terrible is coming. I can barely sleep. I can't eat.

Friday afternoon we're scheduled to meet. I text him in the morning that this situation is very difficult for me, and whether we can meet up earlier. He only texts back: "Morning. I'm going to get dressed sometime soon"

He arrives in the afternoon, looks at me as if someone has died, and breaks up with me. Why? He doesn't feel love for me anymore. He says I should date other men and that we can only remain friends if I let go of any hope of us ever being together again. I have a near breakdown because how can you talk of marriage and children on Monday, and by Friday everything is in shambles for apparently no reason?

---

Epilogue:

I am devastated and kick him out. He comes over the next day to pick up his things. I treat him frostily and make him drive a piece of furniture we've built together to the rubbish tip. He wants to "have a chat". I'm having none of it and kick him out again.

A week later he texts me: "I don't feel well at all. Can we talk?" I curtly text back, yes, but only five minutes, and I try to be very sober to him on the phone. He complains that he's contacted two former flames of his, but that they haven't replied yet, and that this has sent him into a downward spiral. I tell him that I can't help him with that, and that this isn't my problem.

He keeps calling and texting me. Another week later he asks to go for a walk. I'm an idiot and agree. He looks terrible, like an abandoned puppy, apologises profusely, hugs me, promises me the world, and we get back together instantly. I hate the fact that I wasn't able to keep him on tenterhooks longer, and that he seems to have expected to waltz back into our relationship as if nothing happened.

The next four months are a living hell. He breaks every single promise he's given within one month. I'm conditioned to expect less and less. He wants me to feel grateful for even the most self-evident foundations of human interaction. We argue constantly, and it's always "my fault". Whatever I do is wrong. My most basic needs, such as wanting to see him twice a week, are "dramatic".

While he completely stops making an effort, he also keeps saying strange things such as "women can never be faithful" and "you're going to want to trade me in for an upgrade in two or three years' time". When I reassure him that I love him and that I've never cheated on anyone, it only makes things worse.

We have one or two near-breakups over him breaking his promises and his complete neglect, but I'm an idiot (again) and adjust my expectations. He learns that he can get away with anything. I keep giving him all the perks of a loving relationship, while he gives back very little, if anything at all.

At some point he randomly tells me he went to a prostitute two or three years ago, when he was in his last relationship, because the girlfriend before me allegedly had encouraged him to go. I'm shocked and disgusted, but I hide my feelings because I don't want to invalidate him, or punish him for trusting me with this confession.

He discards me again in early May.

He's never once taken responsibility for the hurt he's caused me with either of the breakups, calling them both a "necessity".

[Sappho11]

So… What do you think? Does anyone have similar experiences of this: a discard right at the time a big commitment is made, and even moreso: weird paranoid comments and the ‘introduction’ of an old flame. It almost feels as if her subconscious mind introduced all the relevant themes in a couple days time:

tl;dr

Yes, all of them.

Big commitments stimulate a BPD's fear of engulfment. And because they can't deal with their emotions like healthy people, they will resort to painting you black, try to manipulate you into leaving so as not having to do the dirty work of having to break up themselves, and if this doesn't work, finally break up with you regardless.

[IntoTheWind]

Big commitments stimulate a BPD's fear of engulfment. And because they can't deal with their emotions like healthy people, they will resort to painting you black, try to manipulate you into leaving so as not having to do the dirty work of having to break up themselves, and if this doesn't work, finally break up with you regardless.

This was totally my experience. In fact, I was able to predict with accuracy when my ex would leave based on upcoming commitments. It would start with her not talking to me, then leaving a large pre-written message or calling me. I was able to point out to her that maybe close intimacy was a trigger for her to get overwhelmed (she got mad at me for this of course).

[Sappho11]

This was totally my experience. In fact, I was able to predict with accuracy when my ex would leave based on upcoming commitments. It would start with her not talking to me, then leaving a large pre-written message or calling me. I was able to point out to her that maybe close intimacy was a trigger for her to get overwhelmed (she got mad at me for this of course).

Your ex got mad, mine remained in denial. At one point I couldn't take it anymore and wrote him a two-page letter trying to make sense of the situation, how he always pulled away when things had been particularly great/intimate/loving between us. How he had a pattern of painting me black -- even traits he had once claimed to love. That I was willing to help him with his attachment and also work on my own, but that I wasn't going to stick around if he didn't make any effort to change his behaviour.

He arrived that night, on the brink of tears, wearing the shirt I had given him on Valentine's Day (for the first time!), initially refusing to discuss the matter, instead insisting we listen to some music he wanted to show me. When we did discuss the issue, he went on to "prove" that I was wrong, detail by detail, deflecting everything.

Not once did he apologise. Not once did he see his own role in the matter. Nor did he make any effort to change.

I was stupid and stayed (why, I don't know), tolerated his declining efforts and eventually got discarded two months later. Worst thing was, I knew all along that the dignified thing would be to leave him, but I kept clinging to the hope that he would change. Well, that sure bit me in the... dishonourable part.

[once removed]

your hunch isnt a stretch.

(some) people do this sort of thing. its hard to say why, exactly.

my ex, in hindsight, did it on a far more limited and hidden level. after she dumped me and jumped in a new relationship, i did recall her mentioning the guy in a way that i found odd at the time, and striking later. i have also had other partners do similar. in fact, while ive really only had about a handful of serious romantic relationships, each of them cheated; what can i say? i pick winners 

what i would suggest is that it is likely not (at least not entirely) the increased commitment that triggered this, or the end of your relationship. more than likely, something, or somethings happened, that signaled to her that it would not last.

and some people have weak coping skills when it comes to breakups. cheating is one. overlapping a relationship is another. emotionally abandoning (as i did) is another.

when a person has that sense that a relationship can, will, or should end, and they begin to grieve it, they often tend to have second thoughts, doubts, swings. for example, the last time i saw my ex (it had been a while) we had a fight free few days, and she told me she had fallen in love with me all over again. in fact, i recall that after my ex did something particularly heinous, and feeling i couldnt recover from it, i decided to completely recommit. for someone with bpd traits, it can be the same thing going on, but look even wilder and more extreme.

in my opinion, thats one of the hardest parts to fathom, and one thing i struggled with when i came here. near a breakup, both parties are almost always on a pretty different page. with someone with bpd traits, there was always something boiling underneath the surface, something we werent privy to. and there are coping mechanisms that people with bpd traits are predisposed to, and in extreme ways (compartmentalization is a big one) that can boggle the mind.

in other words, if its one thing i could tell you, and would have liked to tell myself at the time, it almost certainly isnt one thing you said or did, that if you could go back and change it, would fix anything (couples do break up over that kind of thing, but it tends to be clear). it may be cold comfort, but "what happened" is likely far more complex.

[Skip]

Stepping back a little... one thing I think I've learned about being a man in a relationships is that at times our day to day feelings don't really matter to our partner because they are over focused on their own feelings. Of course, the flip side of that could be that at times we are over focused on our own feelings and not paying the right attention to theirs. Both can be true.

You mentioned before that you are attracted to dramatic women. Is part of that attraction that they, at times, seem really attuned to your feelings? Is your frustration generally about times when they put their feelings ahead of yours?

Not a "fault" comment - just a relationship dynamic to ponder.

In reading this latest incident, it sounds like there are a lot of complications in your relationship. Both sides.

Is your girlfriend struggling with making this commitment to you (anyone) because the stakes are so high if it fails and she feels vulnerable - the most typical embodiment of fear or abandonment? Has she resurrected an old flame to see if she has a safety net in case things go wrong with you - another typical embodiment of fear or abandonment? When she says she didn't end her last relationships cleanly, but cheated at the end - isn't this another typical sign of fear or abandonment? A lastly, when your move-in relationship hits a snag (all relationships do) - will she reach out to someone else to cushion the blow?

I'm not suggesting that she is (or is not) sleeping with someone - that is not always the outcome of reaching out. But in looking at this more broadly, is this a deep emotional fear of abandonment at play? Triggered by her feeling vulnerable after making a big commitment to you?

If so, how do you feel about this reality? Fear of abandonment can be appeased, but it is innate - it doesn't go away.

How do you feel about your own doubts and fears of vulnerability? It seems that you are also in a very heightened state of fear about the relationship.

I know these are complex and unsettling questions without simple answers - but wrestling with them and trying to understand to what extent this is part of the struggle may help - along with all the other things that have been discussed here and that you are pondering.

[Sappho11]

As a woman who suffers from fear of abandonment, I'd like to throw in that that in itself is not a reason, nor an excuse, to treat your partner poorly. Neurotypical people know this and will act accordingly, despite their fears.

I've clung to partners and even friends occasionally. But it would never occur to me to "resurrect an old flame", or break up with someone, or hurt them because of my fears.

Victimisation leads to learnt helplessness and benefits nobody.

People who treat others poorly, including pwBPD, need to be held accountable for their actions instead of being enabled to hide behind their disorder. Just as neurotypical people are held accountable for their actions.


...and as for the commentary that a man's feelings don't matter in a relationship, they do. A lot. But it's also a biological fact that women simply experience feelings more often and more profoundly. Testosterone stabilises, estrogen (and other female hormones) destabilises mood. Men have ten times more testosterone than women. We women have to live with, from our point of view, men's sex-crazed nature. Men have to live with, from their point of view, women's illogical, emotional, often short-sighted nature. This isn't a bad thing. It's just a fact of life.

I've found the best relationships are those where both partners are heard, but where the man tends to be the "strong shoulder", the logical bedrock. Relationships where women have to provide the strong shoulder constantly tend to falter sooner rather than later. Source: I've been the strong shoulder and logical part in most of my relationships. It leaves both parties dissatisfied and just doesn't work that way.

[tvda]

Thanks for the replies Skip, Sappho and OnceRemoved...

Skip, you mention a high fear state in me about this relationship. The relationship is over, so there is no fear anymore. Lots of other complex feelings but no fear anymore - except about my own mental health...

The reality of the situation is that I've been... uhm, conned, let's say. Conned into believing the pity story of someone who, as it turns out, is potentially a strong narcissist, or at least a BPD with very strong narcissistic traits.

She love-bombed me with a sad story of how she would never ever ever cheat on her partner, because the father of her daughters once cheated on her and she knows what that does to a person. Big red flag right to start an affair with someone who claims she would never cheat... My stupid mistake. But she had a very convincing story of how she was stuck in a prison-like relationship with a narcissist, and needed someone to rescue her out of this situation thus had no other option but to cheat "for now".

After months it became very weird to me that, while I offered her super easy ways to escape her "prison", she kept on finding reasons to stay with her so-called abusive NPD partner. As she lives in a small town away from me, and I had no contact with her social circle I was kept in the dark about many things.

But as it goes there were many push-pull cycles and I kept falling for it. She always came back lovebombing me. After nine months of this her partner discovered her cheating with me but took her back. She told him things were over with me but kept on seeing me weekly. And she kept on stringing me along, saying that she was afraid to officially break up with him because he would sort of blackmail and threaten her about their jointly owned house and custody of their son.

Now, after 18 months, her partner discovered that we were still seeing each other - in fact discovering for the second time that she was cheating with me. And he's breaking up with her. My first thoughts: "This is great! Now we can finally start our life together!". And right at this point, she breaks up with me. After 18 months of struggles and promises of desire to have a life together. And mere days after introducing an old flame into the story who just happened to reach out two days after her partner decides to break up. Too many coincidences of course.

My head was spinning... But by another lucky coincidence, a friend of mind had a Tinder date with a woman who used to be her friend. They got to talking about my situation, and that's when the ugly truth got out... This woman told my friend that my, uhm, "girlfriend" has a loong history of cheating and sleeping around with every man in town, never single for a day, and always "overlapping" ends and starts of relationships... And a propensity to get pregnant when the guy was wealthy or had high social status... All of this under the guise (this is a mindPLEASE READ for me) of a very demure, shy, caring, loving and doting mother, living among the trees and nature... When my friend mentioned my view of the story, about her living under the abuse of a NPD partner, as possible attenuating circumstances his date immediately replied "No no no, SHE is known as the big narcissist in our circle of friends!" She also mentioned that she has no female friends left, because they all broke off contact with her due to her immoral behaviour with so many men - including the partners of her friends...

Yes... It could be a BPD's fear of commitment or engulfment now that we could actually have a full life together... But after all I've heard now, and the extremely cold and calculating manner (really zero empathy) she ended up treating me... It feels more like she is an NPD with a pathological need for attention from men, who arranged her life to have a big house, kids, wealthy partner and the image of a soft-spoken, poetic gentle soul to the outside world... All the while cheating this guy with me - and now with the next guy... Who when reading between the lines was also the previous guy...

Damn. It's a lot to take in when the reality of your past 18 months gets turned upside down and the true story turns out to be completely different than what you thought it was...

But there's no more relationship dynamic to speak of. It's over. I got conned into loving and supporting a lying, cheating, manipulative woman and lost 18 months of my life - all I gained was psychological damage...

p.s. The date of my guy friend also said: "beware - when things blow up with this guy, she'll turn right back to your friend. She always does..." Something I should be prepared for...

[Sappho11]

When my ex's ex finally moved out of his house after four months of beginning our relationship, that was my reaction exactly. Relief. Joy. The feeling of "Finally, we can start building something real, just the two of us".

Instead, he literally cried on my shoulder about her, and broke up with me that same week. Despite only having spoken of marrying and having children days earlier.

It really drives home the point that they're not in a relationship for us, and not even for the relationship itself. They're in the relationship only for themselves.

[hammer]

Sappoh11 you make a very good point. They are not capable of healthy love and have a distorted vision of love. Their view of love is how it can fill that empty void they have. My ex always complained that I didn't love her like she loved me. Her love toward me was obsessive. That comes with some wonderful components, but it always made me question it all. She said to me on the breakup that she asked her brother shortly before he died from cancer, if it was better to love or be loved. His reply was it was always better to be loved. My therapist said she didn't think anyone could love my ex enough. I agree. It's sad.

How long were you together and at what point did you really start to see something was wrong? How much time did you have after you knew things were not right? It sounds like your last breakup was recent. How are you doing? If he comes back again what will you do? That is a hard question, I know. I struggle with it as well, although my ex-cheated and left for another man. That is a major dealbreaker in my book. I have been there before and took her back with bad results.

[Sappho11]

Sappoh11 you make a very good point. They are not capable of healthy love and have a distorted vision of love. Their view of love is how it can fill that empty void they have. My ex always complained that I didn't love her like she loved me. Her love toward me was obsessive. That comes with some wonderful components, but it always made me question it all. She said to me on the breakup that she asked her brother shortly before he died from cancer, if it was better to love or be loved. His reply was it was always better to be loved. My therapist said she didn't think anyone could love my ex enough. I agree. It's sad.

You're right. It's a self-esteem issue which only they themselves can fix.

Problematically, most cultures sell people on this notion that "love conquers all" and that people can be made "whole" by someone else loving them.

We've all believed in that at some point.

How long were you together and at what point did you really start to see something was wrong?

We knew each other professionally for two years, then were together romantically for eight months.

During our professional relationship, I cautiously kept my emotional distance from him for the longest time. He was very good-looking, and there was considerable physical chemistry, but something felt "off" about him from the start. Plus, he had a girlfriend.

He began dropping veiled hints that it wasn't going so well between him and her. His whole demeanour towards me intensified over the course of several months. He seemingly turned into the person I'd been looking for all my life, and I fell fast and hard.

He broke up with his girlfriend and we got together. But even the first four weeks of idealisation and bliss were spotted with strange occurrences. I first realised that something was very, very wrong about four weeks in. It felt as if a mirror had broken.

How much time did you have after you knew things were not right?

He first left me about three months afterwards; tearfully came back after two weeks and waltzed back into our relationship as if nothing had happened; and then discarded me again after four more months. So, seven months since I'd first realised something was off. My realisation stages went as follows:

1) "He's got strange behaviour patterns, but he's probably just insecure because this is so new between us."
2) "He's got really low self-esteem." (I started researching at this point.) "No biggie, I'll be supportive and help him through it."
3) "This relationship seems toxic at times, though I don't know why."
4) "Who is this man? Why is he so angry?"
5) "He's probably got a fearful-avoidant attachment style. It hurts but I can handle it."
6) "I'm fully committed to him, while he isn't committed at all. He's probably avoidant, after all. I'll do my best to provide him reassurance, even if it's going to be tough, because I love him after all."
7) "It seems he suffers from clinical depression." (He confirms this when asked.) "That's okay, I have handled this before in other relationships, I can handle this with him, too."

Then the sudden, final separation. The swings between overly-doting and avoidant only become obvious in hindsight. And the final realisation:

8) "This reads and feels exactly like the dynamic with my BPD-diagnosed high school best friend." (Reading up every resource there is.) "Oh my God, that's it exactly."

It sounds like your last breakup was recent. How are you doing?

I'm holding up all right, thanks. My life is back on track. But I'm often torn between "thank goodness this is over" and "maybe he'll change and come back".

If he comes back again what will you do?

Tell him that he can't expect to waltz back into my life as if nothing had happened. That he needs to take full responsibility for his past actions. That we can only be friends if he makes a true, tangible effort to rebuild the trust he's betrayed. That he can't count on my ever wanting to be in a relationship with him again, that I will need time to see how things develop and to figure out whether I want this at all.

That is a hard question, I know. I struggle with it as well, although my ex-cheated and left for another man. That is a major dealbreaker in my book. I have been there before and took her back with bad results.

Cheating is the worst. I can't imagine how it must feel. You're right in that being a major dealbreaker! Nobody should be treated that way.

For me there are three major dealbreakers: cheating, domestic violence and criminal activities. Everything else can be atoned for -- I think. But these three are boundaries whose violation I feel are inexcusable.

[hammer]

It is interesting how many similarities not only with your situation, but many other ones posted here. I was good acquaintances with my ef-GF before getting together. She had been married for more than 15 years, one son (a great young man). I knew the extended family as well and was part of holiday celebrations with all of them. My business was in an explosive growth phase, but also lots of hurdles because of that. She pushed to come and work for me, I resisted because we had always had chemistry and I knew she didn't have much of a marriage. She is persistent and I gave in. She is an amazing force and really helped to put things into place. She was also heavily flirting with me and pushing me for a physical relationship. I resisted that for as long as I could. She is an attractive woman with a great personality. Once it happened I tried to end it only to have her push more. Once she sets her mind on something nothing stops her. I just gave into it all. She kept saying we should be more like a normal couple. Unrealistic and I told her so. She and her husband lived parallel lives. He is not highly motivated. In hindsight, I am sure she had just sucked the life out of him over the years. It seemed like she was obsessed with me. She would show up all the time, and everywhere I might be. She wanted to spend all of her time with me. I started to see anger and moodiness that would quickly appear and be gone just as fast. She would act as if nothing happened. There were incidents of rage in the same fashion, not often, but often enough. She would cry and cling saying I didn't love her the way she loved me. She was insanely jealous. It all left me exhausted. Her husband had found a girlfriend two years ago and had moved out.  She started saying she wanted us to openly date. We had spent the last four years spending a great deal of time together, eating out four or five times a week, seeing each other every day, constant texts and calls from her.

Then it was over and she wanted nothing to change between us except we were no longer lovers. She was mad at first that I wouldn't. Then super nice, which she still is. Then crying when she realized I would not speak with her. She still works for me. She is the biggest producer in my business. She is commission only and is making a lot of money, both for her and for me. I will only communicate via text and email and only on direct questions pertaining to business. This has been over the last two and a half months. She was using business as an excuse to try and communicate with me. I didn't give in. In the last week she now seems to be resigned to that and is still super nice and polite. I don't think any of this is an attempt to get back together. I am a pretty well known artist and the world surrounding my business is really fun and interesting. There were lots of events in my galleries, dinners with collectors (a wealthy group and very interesting people), charity events and the like. It is really fun and rewarding. We did it all together. Of course, the pandemic changed that last year, but as things open up it is starting again. I am sure she wants to continue that. She will be sadly disappointed.

I am trying to put it all into perspective, heal and move on with my life. I am in therapy and not only using it to look at this past relationship but to focus on things I do that are not good and would like to change going forward. Mine issues are not toxic or abusive, but we all have room for improvement. I certainly do. It is also one of the things I struggle with, as we all do, what could I have done different that might have created a different outcome. I think the truth is nothing I could have done. That is not to say that I didn't do things wrong. I did. I wish I had known about BPD during that time. I would have realized that we were thinking on two entirely different planes. As has been said so often here and in other information I have read, you can't apply logic to this situations and the pwBPD is not operating on normal thought patterns.

I wish you well in your journey of healing. Look inside for the answers. Realize you are a good person, no matter what our flaws are and that we did the best we could with the knowledge we had at the time. I am trying to focus on the good that came out of this relationship but also remember the unhealthy behavior and not wear rose colored glasses.