Recent break up with pregnancy

[Firsttimefather]

I think the hormones of a recent pregnancy may have triggered a split. About a week ago we went from sharing the same bed in the house we rent to me being told: ‘I’m no longer attracted to you in anyway and we need to just be friends” a few hours later back into bed, a few days later back apart for same reasons I am told. We are communicating but the big topic is she is pregnant and we aren’t discussing this. I don’t know what’s going to happen. We have about 11 years age difference between us as well. There are times when it feels like it’s all okay but a lot of the time there is isolation on her part and a pushing me away unless she needs something done that she can’t do. I love her and have some experience with BPD but need so more input and advice.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ventak]

Welcome to the family, and Congratulations!

I'm sorry to hear you are struggling during this momentous occasion.  I know how stressful that can be.

I think the hormones of a recent pregnancy may have triggered a split.

We went through 7 pregnancies before having twins 2.5 years ago, so I have more experience with this than normal.  There is definitely an impact by the hormones, but the number one factor influencing BPD "episodes" is stress.  Are there issues in the pregnancy or other life issues that are causing unusual stress?  Becoming a first time parent is one of the more stressful life events and anything you can do to help ease her stress levels will be very helpful.

I love her and have some experience with BPD but need so more input and advice.

This site is a great resource for that, with good articles to read and the most welcoming community I've ever found on the internet.. so glad you found us.

Please share more about what you are looking for, but this is a good place to start:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=347835.0

[Firsttimefather]

Hi, there has been many stressors plus the pregnancy though she didn’t know she was pregnant at the time of the split. That’s why I thought maybe chemical sort of thing but it did coincide with a lot of college related/job stress as she had to prepare a big project and share it with her peers. That really had her on edge. So I am gathering that you are saying it was already in motion, not really centered on me. It’s hard to wrap my brain around her saying’im just not attracted to you’ yet she trust me to be close to her whole naked, not intimate but not super guarded. There was some guarded at first following the split. I read somewhere that often times the break ups aren’t ‘real’. That it’s more like a bunch of smoke and mirrors cast off to push you away. I notice a lot of isolating and as a matter of fact she is avoiding her phone going on two days now, let it die, not plug it in. What I am after hear is to gain better skills to foster a healthy relationship between us. I am very committed to stick by her, but need to get stronger myself. Also, the possible baby. There is concern from my family that she may decide on an abortion but instincts say no, but idk. There has been little to no, mostly no, communication about it and I struggle with bringing it up. Either due to timing or fear of upsetting her. It is tough as there are the pregnancy mood swings too. I am very interested in hearing more about your story. Thank you for your response and your welcoming me to the board

[Ventak]

So I am gathering that you are saying it was already in motion, not really centered on me. It’s hard to wrap my brain around her saying’im just not attracted to you’ yet she trust me to be close to her whole naked, not intimate but not super guarded.

I read somewhere that often times the break ups aren’t ‘real’. That it’s more like a bunch of smoke and mirrors cast off to push you away.

Every person and situation is unique, so I can not tell you what is happening in your situation.  That said, breakups and threats of breakups are very common with pwBPD.  This forum is full of stories similar to yours.  My BPDw first asked for a divorce 2 weeks after our wedding 8 years ago.  I would guess that in our 10 years together she has threatened breakup/divorce an average of 10 times a year (including yesterday).  So there is a strong possibility this is what you are going through.  In my case these breakups are usually hours, sometimes a few days, and recently weeks/months.

In general, people with BPD have two driving emotional fears, abandonment and shame.  The fear of abandonment is intense, and the typical defense mechanism oddly achieves the fear instead of saving the pwBPD from it...   My W and I call it the "push away".  As I understand the psychology, the pwBPD begins feeling intense fear of abandonment, and because of shame and low self esteem feels that they are unworthy.  Their response to these feelings is to push their love away from them.  I suspect that if their loved one is no longer in their life then they can't abandon them so it feels "safer".

What I am after hear is to gain better skills to foster a healthy relationship between us. I am very committed to stick by her, but need to get stronger myself. Also, the possible baby.

You are definitely on the right track here.  Please read through these articles to get a feel for what will be needed from you in this relationship, and what you need to do (or stop doing) right away:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship
https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/fuzzetti.pdf

The two most frequently suggested skills are called "don't JADE" and "SET".  Here are a couple links:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.20
https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

It is important to remember that you can not change another person, only yourself.  Sometimes the change you make for yourself helps another person change for the better, but not always.  The analogy that is used is based on safety tips from the airlines.  Always place the oxygen mask on yourself before the child.  If you are not taking care of yourself, you will not be able to properly take care of others.  Are you in therapy?  Do you have a good support system (family, friends)?  Do you take time out of your day to focus on activities you enjoy?

You are taking the first steps needed to gain the skills and understanding that you will need.  My twins and I will add you and your family to our prayers tonight.

[Firsttimefather]

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. I feel my partner has leveled a bit and sees me as ‘sweet’ once again and cognizant of my kindness. I tell her I love her (is that ok?) she finally responded saying ‘I know you do’. Communicating at least is a positive change. She is worried about who knows..I.e-my mother. I read how ‘shame’ is a big issue at times with bpd. Honestly my gut instincts say she comes around, we have the child and take on this life. I’m going to read through the boards and see what more I can glean. Funny how ‘abandonment’ issues show up when it is the furthest thing from my mind, however that’s ‘me’. I actually joined a gym right after this ‘split’ and have been tending to me very well. Good diet, plenty of exercise, etc. Staying close to friends and family. One way or another I must make way for a positive outcome whatever it may be. I have been thinking of what you told me about your experiences leading up to twins. I’m glad that happened for all of you. In one sense I believe in fate and our pregnancy is meant to be however can always just trust in ‘fate’ .

[Ventak]

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. I feel my partner has leveled a bit and sees me as ‘sweet’ once again and cognizant of my kindness. I tell her I love her (is that ok?) she finally responded saying ‘I know you do’. Communicating at least is a positive change.

Again it is tough to give advice without knowing you both really well... I'd advise you to do what you are comfortable with and she appears to be comfortable.  I know my W loves to hear how much I love her, and always wants to know why..  She broke up with a guy once because he didn't have an answer for that quickly enough...

If your girlfriend has BPD or BPD characteristics, it is very likely that she will go through what is called "switching".  pwBPD tend to see things as all "good" or all "bad", and their romantic interests tend to bounce back and forth from one to the other.  The all good is amazing... the all bad not so much ;)

Good luck with your journey, please keep us updated.

[Firsttimefather]

Hi, so it’s not been so good. The splitting is back and forth. Very anti me at times, say’ I’m relieved you aren’t here’ but hours later :’come home and bring food’ . I have been staying away from home to give her a little space and she became very frustrated with me. She gave me a choice of signing over parental rights or she will just have an abortion. I declined as I don’t know anything about that ( I do a bit now) but she wasn’t happy with my answer and said I needed to move out. It was difficult to do but I have been camping a few days in a row and my phone is a rollercoaster of texts and calls. As I said some are horrible but in that she is thinking about me, evaluating me, but mostly negative. Again there is the pregnancy so when the discussion comes up, despite having said she is over me etc, it still seems as she is bouncing back and forth on it as stated earlier, call me to come home,she still seems adamant about not loving me anymore. I did notice however that she started wearing a Pearl bracelet I bought her for Valentine’s Day. So that’s the backstory, now my questions are: Is there anyway to actually know if the split is going the other way? No longer all negative? Also what impact did the first doctor’s visits to discuss pregnancy have on your relationship or your partners state of being? I hope for the best in my situation however it doesn’t look very good currently for me. Were there times when you thought,”this is totally fine’, but then it turned back around? Could my partners changes in tone , which were consistent two days in a row’ Berating in the morning, come on over tonite’ be any kind of indicator? I Is to be split black usually 100% black? I hang on to the hope that the doctor visit may get her thinking about saving the relationship and raising a child with me, but right now I feel it’s doubtful, or it’s just how the process of grief in relationship to a partner with BPD goes: a period of doubt.

[Ventak]

Hi, so it’s not been so good. The splitting is back and forth. Very anti me at times, say’ I’m relieved you aren’t here’ but hours later :’come home and bring food’ . I have been staying away from home to give her a little space and she became very frustrated with me. She gave me a choice of signing over parental rights or she will just have an abortion. I declined as I don’t know anything about that ( I do a bit now) but she wasn’t happy with my answer and said I needed to move out. It was difficult to do but I have been camping a few days in a row and my phone is a rollercoaster of texts and calls. As I said some are horrible but in that she is thinking about me, evaluating me, but mostly negative. Again there is the pregnancy so when the discussion comes up, despite having said she is over me etc, it still seems as she is bouncing back and forth on it as stated earlier, call me to come home,she still seems adamant about not loving me anymore. I did notice however that she started wearing a Pearl bracelet I bought her for Valentine’s Day.

Thanks for the update.  You are going through a lot right now and it is very important that you take care of yourself and find a way to become grounded.  Easier said than done, I know.  If you haven't seen a therapist, I highly recommend it... they are trained to help people navigate through these types of relationship issues.   Have you done anything fun with friends lately?  Maybe go to dinner with some family?  Your BPDgf is going through a difficult emotional time, appears to be under tremendous stress, and needs you to remain calm and be a stabilizing presence.

From a medical perspective, I have read that one of the differentiators between Borderline and Bi-Polar is the time between switches.  In Bi-Polar, switches are usually on week long cycles, but with Borderline it can be every other minute.

Your comment about the bracelet hit home... Just last week my BPDw put back on her wedding rings, and made a point to show me that she had.  I took it as her way of answering my question if she was willing to hold off on divorce and try to work on a reconciliation.  This morning she called me on her drive to work, and was using the tumbler that I'd bought her that linked our wedding and loving her through our current struggles.  I think symbolic gestures like that are typical in most human relationships, and I would take it as a positive sign..

There are a couple things that can make these high conflict relationships very difficult.  The first is realizing that the lashing out should not be taken personally.  The second is understanding that during periods of high emotion your loved one is not going to be rational and is likely to make decisions that are not in their best interest or what they may truly want long term.  Your way through these times is to set and maintain consistent boundaries and validate her emotions.  This will help considerably in helping her reduce the emotionality.  Also, if you get defensive at all, or argue... there will be no positive outcome and things will escalate.

So that’s the backstory, now my questions are: Is there anyway to actually know if the split is going the other way? No longer all negative?

The split will almost always go the other way, back and forth, until you are completely out of each others' lives.  Whether the split stays long enough and she decides to move forward with you is difficult to judge from here.

Also what impact did the first doctor’s visits to discuss pregnancy have on your relationship or your partners state of being? I hope for the best in my situation however it doesn’t look very good currently for me. Were there times when you thought,”this is totally fine’, but then it turned back around?

We very much wanted children, so the first doctor's visit was a blessing to us both.  Was yours planned?  If not, that would be a very stressful event.  Remember that stress is a key ignitor.

There have been hundreds of times when I thought everything was totally fine, but then it turned back around.  It is the nature of this health issue.  We did not talk at all for 2.5 months earlier this year... and now are gradually reconciling.

Could my partners changes in tone , which were consistent two days in a row’ Berating in the morning, come on over tonite’ be any kind of indicator? I Is to be split black usually 100% black?

My reading indicates "all good" or "all bad", but my experience is that there can be hesitations in both so at least for my BPDw I see a range.  There is usually an "all good" or "all bad" moment in the cycle though.

I hang on to the hope that the doctor visit may get her thinking about saving the relationship and raising a child with me, but right now I feel it’s doubtful, or it’s just how the process of grief in relationship to a partner with BPD goes: a period of doubt.

My recommendation would be to:

• Find a way to take care of yourself.
• Research what this type of relationship entails so you are fully prepared, and can get through the "lows".
• Show her you are determined and committed at all times.  Any hesitation that could be seen as an abandonment event will be hard to recover from.
• Find a way to take care of yourself.

If you haven't done so yet, please read this link:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship
It is short, and extremely valuable to help you understand things better..

My families prayers are with your family.

[Firsttimefather]

So she awakes and I’m on the couch. I just made popcorn and she asks if she can have some and then sits on the piece of furniture beside mine. “ This show is dumb…” she has never seen this show save for the 5 minutes she spent watching it. “I’m going to take a bath but I have something to talk to you about so come on up and sit with me in the bath” despite having ‘broken up’ any boundaries such as her being naked around me are nonexistent. She does what she wants to and I don’t get to comment much if at all. She informs me her friend may be coming to visit and not to make his visit harder than it needs to me as she is still considering taking the abortion pills and wants support” When I spoke about my difficulties with the abortion decision and asked her to reconsider she responds”well you had me planned all along. You were trying to breed me. You bought me gifts all in order to trap me into having a child.Yeah that’s what you did.” Sadly I’m constantly sad about the idea of an abortion. She and I planned to have a child together but now that the time is here I am seen as the villain and constantly given reasons why the child is a bad idea. Those reasons when stated however are only ‘half’ rational: no grayscale. It is baffling how the vision of me could be manipulated down to a person with some hidden agenda, not the person whom lovingly spent all those months with her discussing pregnancy, family, etc

[Ventak]

So she awakes and I’m on the couch. I just made popcorn and she asks if she can have some and then sits on the piece of furniture beside mine. “ This show is dumb…” she has never seen this show save for the 5 minutes she spent watching it. “I’m going to take a bath but I have something to talk to you about so come on up and sit with me in the bath” despite having ‘broken up’ any boundaries such as her being naked around me are nonexistent. She does what she wants to and I don’t get to comment much if at all. She informs me her friend may be coming to visit and not to make his visit harder than it needs to me as she is still considering taking the abortion pills and wants support” When I spoke about my difficulties with the abortion decision and asked her to reconsider she responds”well you had me planned all along. You were trying to breed me. You bought me gifts all in order to trap me into having a child.Yeah that’s what you did.” Sadly I’m constantly sad about the idea of an abortion. She and I planned to have a child together but now that the time is here I am seen as the villain and constantly given reasons why the child is a bad idea. Those reasons when stated however are only ‘half’ rational: no grayscale. It is baffling how the vision of me could be manipulated down to a person with some hidden agenda, not the person whom lovingly spent all those months with her discussing pregnancy, family, etc

Sadly, this is the illness.  It's difficult, if not impossible, but please try to keep in mind that it is not you she is lashing out at but her constant pain.  I think of myself as a lightning rod for my BPDw.. a wild bolt of uncontrolled destructive energy that needs to land somewhere.  In my case it is better for it to land on me than on our twins.  Fortunately she is slowly getting better through therapy and DBT training.  But it took an arrest for her to take those steps after 7 years of broken promises to do so.

The scenario you outlined is very familiar to me.  One thing I've learned to help me cope is that her words are meaningless, and I evaluate her plans only by her actions.  My wife has threatened divorce and to take the kids out of state hundreds of times, yet has not followed through on either threat.  Some day she might eventually do it, and she did go so far as to contact an attorney a month ago.  Yet here we are now... making plans for a future together again.  From what I understand and have experienced, pwBPD find their loved ones biggest pain points and will inflict the greatest pain when emotions are heightened.  

Please remember that you are your own person.  You are an individual with needs and the ability to make choices.  The choice to stay or go is yours.  The choice to be with her when she is taunting you with her nudity is yours.  The choice to finish a show you are enjoying is yours.  She can not "make" you do anything.  That is a mindset I have to work very hard to keep in mind as I was trained from birth to have no needs and cater to my narcissist mother.  But I have accepted at least that my wife is not making me do these things, that I am doing them of my own free will.  It's a subtle distinction but it helps me as I try to create my own identity.

What steps have you taken lately to care for yourself?

[Firsttimefather]

Thank you for your insight. I have read it daily since you wrote it. Currently I am waiting in the wings it seems. As of yesterday morning no abortion but could have happened last night, today…I don’t know if I will know if she does, if she will call or what…I haven’t seen her in a few days. She was rather angry when I last did so I thought I would give her space. An old friend of hers came to town to visit and knows a bit about us. He implied in his conversation that she is still on the fence about everything. It’s hard to fathom all of it at times. The possible abortion is beyond tough on the heartstrings. I try to look at the actions not the words but honestly every read I sense seems rooted in ambiguity. So maybe that’s it, that the indecisiveness showing perhaps. I don’t know. I would love to be back home comfortably. She says I’m welcome there but it doesn’t really feel that way when I’m there. I’m hoping her friend is of help. He mentioned 11 years ago seeing her go through similar issues and referenced her ‘on again off again’ med approach. She told him that I mentioned she should seek help. I think these are good signs….

[Ventak]

I'm glad you have found some comfort in what I wrote.  The twins and I say a prayer for mama every night, we will add you again this evening 

[Firsttimefather]

So she went through with the abortion. Afterwards I became the target of blame. How my choices left her no options and now she is angry at me for not signing over the child’s rights. I realize more and more by reading the texts she sends that she is hurting a lot but instead tries to hurt me with comments suggesting I wasn’t there for her. I didn’t want the abortion. She chased me away rather well leading up to it. Now there is some regret on her behalf but it’s too late for that. The way she refers to our relationship you’d swear it were some else’s. One comment in particular was ‘now I can go back to my family who was there before you came’ as if I were a hindrance on her life previous to now. I never tried controlling her, owning her, however her comments suggest otherwise. I imagine one day she may hit a wall with all this and hopefully seek a soft spot to land. I don’t know what lay in store for us. I’m looking to move out as that was her request when she split weeks back though she changes her tube in this constantly: joes the house hunting? In September my mom is coming to stay is that ok?: now i see many edges of her I hadn’t before all this. I was camping yesterday morning and awoke to a flood of texts at 6am: ‘you weren’t there for me.’ ‘I’ve lost so much blood and think I need to go to the emergency room? ‘’I’m angry you left me no choice but to do this’ …I didn’t want her to do it, I wasn’t ‘there’ as I disagreed with the whole procedure/plan but worse off I didn’t know when or if she was going to take the pills. I stuck to my guns. I tell her I love her but her choices were here own. There is a lot to process with the abortion part of this for me. Not much support out there for the guy side of abortions and certainly none that speak of a couple trying to conceive then choosing abortion when conception has happened. Right now it’s hard to fathom being around her. I don’t know what todo. I don’t know if we can bounce back from this.

[kells76]

Hey Firsttimefather,

 

There's so much you're going through. Not only the loss of your child, and your hopes and dreams there, yet also the loss of support and togetherness with your partner. I wish for you that you could have shared the grieving and processing with her, and I'm sorry that instead of that happening, you're receiving blame and vitriol that you don't deserve.

I wish I could make things better for you. You're right, there's so little compassion and empathy for dads who lose a child via abortion. You matter, what you wanted mattered, and how you feel matters. You were a soon-to-be-parent, too, not just her. I'm really glad you reached out here to share how you're doing.

It makes so much sense that you're not sure what to do, or whether your relationship can come back from this. Of course it's hard to know right now. That's OK. I hope you can have some compassion for yourself as you grieve and feel whatever comes up. I'm sure that when the time is right, you'll know more about what direction you want to go. No pressure, no timeline. It's OK to be not sure for a while -- I hope you can give yourself a break and do something really kind for yourself.

Sounds like you are seeing what's behind the blame, negativity, and anger:

I realize more and more by reading the texts she sends that she is hurting a lot but instead tries to hurt me with comments suggesting I wasn’t there for her. I didn’t want the abortion. She chased me away rather well leading up to it. Now there is some regret on her behalf but it’s too late for that.

That definitely explains much about her behavior, without excusing it. She isn't coping healthily, and instead of taking responsibility for her choices, is occupying the "victim" role on the triangle -- like you mentioned, she isn't owning her choices, and is instead trying to make it your fault. That's so hard to take, on top of the other pain you're going through.

...

Please keep processing and posting here as much as you feel comfortable with -- we'll be here.

Maybe today you can just take the day step by step. Come back here whenever you need to.

 

kells76

[Firsttimefather]

It’s been a rather uneventful few days, sorta and thankfully. Two nights ago I came home late and sat and spoke with her. She was very receptive and agreeable. Admitted that the paranoia was just that. Almost embarrassed about the things she said and ways she acted. The abortion is never mentioned however she does acknowledge and appreciates that I gave her space though a bit bitter I wasn’t there through the abortion though admits that she basically said this was her journey alone. So…the conversation made it so I could be home peacefully. She agreed no more provoking fights via text messages and in general. I still spend a lot of time alone. We are both in the house but I have been so emotionally, mentally and physical tired so right to sleep for me. She was up most of the evening. Cleaning and covering the interior of her new car. Picking blackberries. She has multiple people she has been flirting with via text it seems but I try to pay no attention. I’m still sorting through feelings and taking my own space. Having distance between us it seems she then reaches out. However today she seemed angry. She received a call that her credit card had been utilized in a bunch of purchase attempts at some local stores. She asked me if I did it? We are talking big purchases and she thinks I, the guy who loves her, would do anything for her, but on the side I’m going to steal from her? I don’t call her out on it but help her rationalize why it couldn’t have been me for instance a purchase of gas for 80$ when my car tops of at 50$.. when she is done she just hangs up. Seldom a ‘bye bye’just turns cold and that’s it, over it, click…then a few hours later she called to tell me my dog chewed her sock and that they are prescription socks and cannot be replaced. I let her know that most likely
We can find a new pair. Okay, fine, click…it’s amazing how once your eyes are open, the lightbulb moments come and you realize all the signs, red flags, behaviors all were loud and clear and the ones to come I feel more ready for them. I won’t argue, I won’t fight. I answer some calls, some I let miss then return them. She did say that she was glad I was back home and I noticed she bought me something from the store, a favorite food item but also hate my dinner! Lol ..I don’t really mind but there is this air of entitlement, for lack of better words, when it comes to items she wants. She has moved my stuff into areas all together, almost in piles but when asked she denies it saying she was only kidding.I don’t text or call her much though I feel mostly when she writes she is checking in on me but that’s seldom what she says. I don’t really know what she thinks of me currently though she often comes across angry, or ‘pissy’ perhaps? (Sorry) my friends likened her to a bratty teenager when she was asking me about her recent ID theft. She actually asked me to admit to one of the purchases because it would make her happier knowing it was me. I decline and offer to help anyway I can. I stay friendly as possible but continue to maintain boundaries. Again no talk of the abortion at all and sadly it still affects me so much. I wonder sometimes if it is affecting her at all but I imagine it must, how could it not? Does the disorder help to gloss over very traumatic or important situations like the abortion?is it possible she compartmentally swept or is sweeping it under the rug?