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truthdevotee
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« on: July 23, 2021, 02:40:21 AM »

I feel sad about my relationship with pwBPD.
My relationship with her is so hard. It’s so confusing.

And I can see more and more clearly that it’s because she has an illness, despite how confident and assertive she appears to be on the outside. This is one of the very confusing things about her… she fights so hard and is so confident that she is right and that I am the cause of our problems, that I almost start to believe it. But now there is a small light in the back of my mind that reminds me she is ill and she has a disorder.

This light by and large helps me to manage our relationship with more grace, but sometimes things become too overwhelming.

It’s also sad that distancing myself from her is often the only option available sometimes... most of the time.

Do I really have to leave her to be happy? It feels like this might be the case.

I feel sad for her because she’s really confused. She really struggles. She does her best and somehow it is just not enough to deal with life’s requests. Having two young boys is hard for anyone. Despite all this, she refuses to get babysitting help. Currently it is the summer time and so our older son (4 year old) isn’t at school. Trying to juggle work responsibilities with childcare and managing this difficult relationship is hard.

But I’m making progress. I explained to my older sister who was saddened about my loss of contact with my family of origin. I explained that my partner has a disorder and an illness. This was a good healing step for me and my family of origin. It took me a long time and a lot of support to get to the point of revealing this to my sister, because my pwBPD had convinced me that saying anything about her to others is bad. Out of integrity I listened and honored her. And I became completely isolated, with the exception of talking to my 12 Step sponsor, finding this group and reading the books…

I now talk to friends about my relationship with my pwBPD which is also supportive for me.

My pwBPD is really confused, and she really, really struggles, and suffers... and I feel anxious about her sometimes despite my focus on wellness, health and looking after myself to a large degree...

Do I really have to leave her to be happy? It feels sad to think that I would have to. I’d feel sad for my boys who I desired have an intact family system.

But as the patterns continue to repeat themselves since the beginning of 2021 (when I found out for the first time she has BPD), I see that I am choosing to be in a relationship that is less than satisfying.

The moments of peace and spaciousness in the relationship come intermittently and fill me with false hope, or at least give me the space to forget about the last storm.

There’s an innate desire within me to “forget” about the pains and troubles and lack of intimacy. The peace itself is a gift. Yet, inevitably, the next storm comes.

How do I know if it’s the right thing to do to leave… how do I find the strength to do it if it is the right thing?

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truthdevotee
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2021, 02:42:52 AM »

More and more I realize how hard it is to live in a relationship where no real intimacy (truth) can live.

I have more intimacy with colleagues, friends and family members than with my own wife...

We have really very little to talk about and the hurts are so frequent that I just don't want to be around her 90 to 95% of the time.
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2021, 09:33:30 AM »

I know you a probably just venting. But, I really get this! 
When I realized I needed help I thought, maybe I just need a seperation for a bit to heal and recover... then I would feel intense guilt for even thinking that.
Now, I think the only way for me to have any peace or happiness is to have a permanent break. But...is my path to healing going to hurt my kids even more?
So, I am not any help. I'm just right there with ya.


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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2021, 11:26:44 AM »

Many members with children struggle with this issue. Is it better to try and maintain an intact family and sacrifice my own happiness or is it best for the children to have at least one home with a happy parent?

This would be a good topic to explore on the Conflicted board, so I’m going to move this thread there.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2021, 01:04:18 PM »

Many members with children struggle with this issue. Is it better to try and maintain an intact family and sacrifice my own happiness or is it best for the children to have at least one home with a happy parent?

Several years ago I came across the quote below, attributed to various sources.  This is the oldest reference I found, from a 1986 book titled Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce.  I bought it to confirm and found it on page 195.

An interesting observation by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action, as appropriate, will enable your lives or at least a part of your lives to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that may be - away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

In short, you can choose to make the best of a lousy situation, whether you stay with demonstrated improvement, "stay for now" pending improvement or whether you go.  The reasonable best.
Your decisions of course will be affected by your spouse's actions and behaviors.  But it's always up to you to decide what boundaries you will set in your life, what you will do or not do, etc.

I would add this perspective too...  Many think they can't "leave" their children but they are already leaving their children to work almost daily, go shopping, etc.  Yes, there is a risk a family court could decide we get less time with our children but at least part of the children's lives would be in a stable, reasonably normal home.  Ponder whether that is a better example for the kids than living in a dysfunctional home.

Some here do stay together but typically that is when the dysfunction isn't as severe.  How unhealthy your family's dysfunction is, that's for you to evaluate.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2021, 12:10:29 AM »

Some here do stay together but typically that is when the dysfunction isn't as severe.  How unhealthy your family's dysfunction is, that's for you to evaluate.

Thank you ForeverDad.

Sometimes I worry that my attitude is "bad" and whether I should just be able to change my feelings about the situation. On the other hand I'm aware of my tendency to self-doubt and introject. I'm more and more exhausted and put off by my pwBPD's behaviors.

Your post inspired me to search Amazon for titles related to divorce. I'll find deeper and deeper answers about the truth of divorce in general. My mind's strongly held belief is that staying in an intact family is best. That may be true but I remember as a 9 year old wishing my parents would divorce because the chaos was so bad.

Sometimes I worry that I'm too sensitive and should be able to handle things better and therefore that I add to the problem in a major way. I don't know though. All I can go by is my direct internal experience, and the fact is I'm unhappy and more and more distance with my wife. I don't desire intimacy and sexuality with her anymore


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truthdevotee
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2021, 12:28:15 AM »

I know you a probably just venting. But, I really get this! 
When I realized I needed help I thought, maybe I just need a seperation for a bit to heal and recover... then I would feel intense guilt for even thinking that.
Now, I think the only way for me to have any peace or happiness is to have a permanent break. But...is my path to healing going to hurt my kids even more?
So, I am not any help. I'm just right there with ya.




Thanks Sally  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2021, 06:09:35 AM »

More and more I realize how hard it is to live in a relationship where no real intimacy (truth) can live.

We have really very little to talk about and the hurts are so frequent that I just don't want to be around her 90 to 95% of the time.

Personally, I do not believe this is sustainable over the long term, and still remain healthy yourself.

I used to schedule work travel just to get away.  There was never the ability to share openly/honestly.  Over time, you will become a shell and wear out.

Unless you can find a way to build a healthy life for yourself, you are not able to help your children.  And over time, you will be destroyed as a person and become someone less than the person you want to be.

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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2021, 07:51:13 AM »

My mind's strongly held belief is that staying in an intact family is best. That may be true but I remember as a 9 year old wishing my parents would divorce because the chaos was so bad.

We all arrived here hoping the past wouldn't haunt us in our own families... generational patterns passed on to us.  Possibly it is an aspect of learned dysfunction, that you didn't have the guidance and exposure to grow up learning what a healthy family was and how to choose a healthy partner.  You may have chosen as a spouse someone like your problem parent(s) — acting out — or chosen to be like your more passive parent — appeasing and acquiescing.

Excerpt
In short, you can choose to make the best of a lousy situation, whether you stay with demonstrated improvement, "stay for now" pending improvement or whether you go.

Break it apart to help it be simpler and easier to visualize...
  • Whether you "stay" with demonstrated improvement
  • Whether you "stay for now" pending improvement
  • Whether you "go" to establish your own stable and healthy home for yourself and your children

Right now it's okay to "stay for now" while you educate yourself, learn the tools and skills for better living and communication and better understand your informed options.  But soon you'll perceive with better clarity where your future lies — and how to get there.  Take advantage of our peer support and hard-won collective wisdom with strategies and approaches that usually work versus strategies and approaches that usually don't.

Some here decided there was sufficient behavioral improvement for the family to continue intact.  Others here decided that after years of efforts their family life really wasn't improving, typically even facing worsening conflict, and learned approaches to unwind the marriage or relationship using time-tested strategies.  Absolutely none of us wanted to have to deal with the discord and angst but we had to face the reality of "what is".

By the way, the menu bar above has a Search function that you can search among our multitude of posts.
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« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2021, 08:33:25 AM »

I think the "desire to forget" is common and perhaps something we learned in childhood and/or poor boundaries with the BPD partner. With my BPD mother, there's a pattern which I call the dry erase board as after an outburst, she feels better and acts kind and lucid, like the person we wish to see- and there's no mention of what happened or any apology or resolution. Also bringing up what happened is futile. It only leads to another dysregulation. One either accepts this situation and goes along with it or leaves- because without a way to resolve this issue, I don't see how change is possible.
It's feels like a cycle that I have repeated with my mother over and over.

But just as you struggle with leaving your marriage, it's a huge struggle to keep a distance from an aging parent. There's a natural tendency to want to help someone you care about, but if that someone is not willing to seek help or accept help, and is continuously abusive -one has to consider what to do.

I have gotten a picture of what my father experienced. While each pwBPD is different, I know this was extremely difficult. My mother's moods and behavior have been central to our lives as a family as we struggle with treating her with kindness and decency while she doesn't treat us that way.  I don't think divorce will change that. What it will do is allow you to create a part of your life separate from this- for you and a space for the children when they are with you. But you will still be in some sort of relationship with her as she is your children's mother.

I can't speak for the road not taken as my parents did not divorce, but now as an adult, I would not blame my father if he did. Family life was chaotic, and she threatened divorce many times. At first, as a younger child, this scared me. As a teen, I started to wish they would, just to stop the conflicts between them. I was naive about the legal aspects of divorce and custody. My own take is to take care of you. (in or out of a relationship )Not taking care of you won't help her, and so, there's no reason to sacrifice your own emotional well being for her sake. Not taking care of you won't help your kids either. It was of no benefit to us to see our mother mistreat our Dad.
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2021, 11:46:08 PM »

Thank you so much yeeter, ForeverDad, Notwendy, for your experience, strength and hope.

I have come to an authentic choice point. After a few days I've calmly making my needs known, and after many painful years of intense chaos and turmoil, I see there is no way forward. I've experienced the situation through and through, and I'm aware that my partner has a deep problem that I can't fix. It has become intolerable. And as I've grown in my awareness of her condition, I've simultaneously grown inwardly in the awareness of what I truly want and need. I've come to realize that my needs and wants to are be honored, because I've slowly become a pained, empty shell.

I've decided to leave after a series of confirmations that this decision is the right one. The last confirmation came this morning, as I was leaving the house to go to work, my pwBPD told me in a deep state of quiet rage (splitting), "you enjoy my pain. you have a part of you that is evil." This appeared to be her final attempt to try to manipulate me into staying and self-doubting. Self-doubting has been my problem all long; not listening to my inward nudges, intuition, sense of knowing what is right and wrong.

I plan to rent a flat close by as soon as possible (by end of July, if possible).

But there is a potential issue here. I am due to start a new job as of September 1st. I am convinced that having my own flat from which to work from home will be the perfect start to work from home. But there is one curveball that I believe could occur - she told me this morning and numerous times in the past, that I should take the boys.

I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old. The 2 year old, naturally is still attached to mummy a lot. But I also have a deep and loving relationship with him. I believe it's within her capacity that I take them with me. And I'm thinking perhaps I should, and I should definitely document evidence of her comments about this and my willingness to be their primary caretaker, in case I ever need to fight for full custody.

The best option might be to secretly get my own flat until our 2 year old is a bit older. Our 4 year old will return to school in September which makes things easier with work. In my own flat, I can also hire a nanny, which I can't do now because expw-BPD doesn't allow anyone in her home.

Fortunately, we're not married. But the house we live in is in her name and so is the car. I need to start setting myself up with a separate identity, and long-term invest in my own assets. For now, I'll rent...

She's in a state of splitting right now and her words might just be threats and a "curveball" to try to make me second guess myself. Deep down, I actually think she desires to be separate from me. It's strange but that's what I feel. I suppose it's like the title of that book "I hate you, don't leave me." She's projecting hatred onto me, and that's why comments like "you must be evil" are coming out of her right now. After years of learning not to take things personally, I'm finally not triggered, but I am aware of the danger of living in an environment like that.
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2021, 11:57:50 PM »

She is a good mum. It's what I like best about her. When she's in a good state, she's a brilliant mum who genuinely cares for her boys. When she's splitting or exhausted, her care naturally becomes less than desirable.

I've heard different thoughts from different people about the impact of a marriage ending on young kids. Some say they take it easier, some say they take it harder.

What would be the approach with a 2 year old and a 4 year old?

I could present my new flat as a place for me to work - partly, this is true. But how to reveal the whole truth? My older son for sure will recognize something else is going on. He's conscious enough to know mummy and daddy don't have a loving and close relationship. He is showered by love by both of us, but is aware of the conflict we have between us.

I would present my new flat with excitement, adventure, and fun. Naturally toddlers find that exciting.

But if she were to suddenly say she can't see her boys anymore (it's possible, but not probable), how would I deal with that situation?

And if she refuses to look after them whilst I need to work, OK - my 4 year old would be at school (unless he's sick), and my 2 year old would be left stranded. I could get a nanny. But it would be painful for him, as his attachment levels to his mum and dad are high.


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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2021, 11:58:35 PM »

.
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2021, 12:35:06 AM »

I plan to rent a flat close by as soon as possible (by end of July, if possible).

But there is a potential issue here. I am due to start a new job as of September 1st. I am convinced that having my own flat from which to work from home will be the perfect start to work from home. But there is one curveball that I believe could occur - she told me this morning and numerous times in the past, that I should take the boys.

I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old. The 2 year old, naturally is still attached to mummy a lot. But I also have a deep and loving relationship with him. I believe it's within her capacity that I take them with me. And I'm thinking perhaps I should, and I should definitely document evidence of her comments about this and my willingness to be their primary caretaker, in case I ever need to fight for full custody.

Many disordered parents — for a variety of reasons more discussion about disordered mothers than fathers — use the children as weapons and manipulation.  Maybe she really does want the burden of parenting off her shoulders.  Or maybe she'll reverse course and suddenly become extraordinarily possessive of them.  Hard to predict, but be prepared whichever way she responds.

When you get a flat, be sure to get one with an extra bedroom for the boys.  At least whatever social services considers adequate.  You don't want their mother to argue your new residence is legally inadequate.

Do not fret over getting daycare or some sort of nanny during work hours.  Just do it.  Odds are their mother will want some level of contact but it might range from 100% to 0%.  Try to get the arrangement documented (recording, text, writing, etc) in case she tries to sabotage your parenting in the future.

Don't leave a child behind.  Not even 'just until he's older'.  That would create a history of your limited parenting and if it ever went to court they would ask about the history of parenting.  The movies such as The Parent Trap (1961) where twins are separated are only that, entertaining movies.  Best not to split the kids unless it risks obstructing your parenting

I'm in another country but in my first session with my custody evaluator he said a large part of his recommendation would be based on the parenting history.  That worried me since she stayed home with our son and I went off to work 5 days a week.  Fortunately he saw me as stable and my stbEx not.  His initial report's conclusion included, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."

She is a good mum. It's what I like best about her. When she's in a good state, she's a brilliant mum who genuinely cares for her boys. When she's splitting or exhausted, her care naturally becomes less than desirable.

Be very cautious about stating "she's a good mom when..."  Lots of new members arrive here excusing their spouses that way.  (Yes, it's part of our personality, we prefer to see the positives in people.  But here we have to be realistic.)  She is both, positive and negative.  You can't just minimize problems when the negative is substantial.  Also, right now a lot of her poor conduct and cycling is focused on you.  If you the current easy target are elsewhere in the future, where do you think her cycling will be directed?
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2021, 06:04:43 AM »

Oh my goodness, I have so many thoughts about that comment "you should take the boys" in regards to my own experiences.

Now, I don't know your wife, but if this were my mother, there would be a few different reasons that comes to mind. Note that I am just guessing here- I can't know what your wife is thinking.


1) She's in waif (victim) mode and you are the villain. "that horrible man, he took my children".( forgetting that she told you to take them).

2) She's using the children as connection- if you have the boys, then she may want to come over to see them whenever she wants to. If she has the boys and the two of you are not married- you might just leave altogether. ( you wouldn't do that, it's about the way she may be thinking).

3) She may not really be able to deal with them by herself, or doesn't want to be a caretaker of them on her own.

4) She's dysregulating and is just saying something out of hurt and projecting.

5) It actually is the best situation for the boys and she realizes that.


From my own perspective, if my parents had divorced and I was given the choice, I'd have chosen to live with my father. Your boys are young now, but as they got older, there'd be the possibility she'd play out her triangle drama with them, enlist them as her emotional caretakers. I think what you are saying is that she acts motherly with them, and that the little one is bonded to her. Even if they live with you - if she wants to see them, you can arrange for that.

I am with Forever Dad- don't have this look like abandonment. Arrange for a place for them. You can arrange child care.

She may become inconsistent with her visitations. I do know of a situation where this happened. The father is the more stable parent and he has the kids. The mom (BPD and other issues) visited for a while until she found someone else, has children with someone else. Yes, the kids were upset when their Mom began missing their birthdays. The father documented the inconsistent parenting. He now has sole custody. It's not been an easy road for him as a single father but it has been the best situation for the kids and him. This is just one story I know of, but it's one possibility.
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2021, 07:51:25 AM »

Its not often that I have strong opinions and clear recommendation on path forward, but if she said you should take the boys:

Take the boys.

Do not even hesitate.  You will figure it out (that is what parenting is - you will adapt, adjust, and figure out a way to make it work).  You can not leave children to fend for themselves with a disordered parent.  Once you take them, you can assess what level of interaction with mom is possible.

This is a no brainer.  (sorry, just my opinion)
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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2021, 09:34:09 AM »

Do you have witnesses of her saying you should take the kids and go?  Or multiple emails, texts or recordings?

The reason I ask is that if she is just angry and posturing she may insist she never said that.  And how would you prove otherwise?  If it becomes "he-said versus she-said" then you as a father may find that your local social services or family courts will give mothers default credibility.

If you can't get texts or emails stating so, then you can try recording.  Just record quietly, don't make a scene.  The point is to have some level of documentation of whatever you may have to state later on.
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« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2021, 10:00:29 AM »

I agree with documentation. Heresay could be changed to "you kidnapped them".

On a different level I have seen this kind of thing with BPD mother. On one hand, she askes me to help her downsize and take sentimental items I may want. When I try to do that, she claims I am stealing them. If I were to take them and she called the police, then I have no proof she asked me to take them. The "take them, don't take them" is basically the push-pull.

Children- a much larger consideration. I vote with "take the boys" and in addition, have documentation that she said that if possible. My best guess is that once you actually take steps to do that, she would stop you having changed her mind to "he's taking the children from me". A form of the push pull behavior.
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« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2021, 10:25:03 AM »

Yes to all the above. Get documentation of her saying "take the kids", and then move forward with taking them, both of them, with you.

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity. It is not crazy to say that if you don't take it, you will have your parenting impeded and blocked in the future. It happened to DH. His ex told him, as they were separating, that she was fine with him taking the kids. He was still in the FOG and had the same qualms as you, and let them stay with Mom. He has never had anywhere close to equal parenting since then, and it's been 10 years.

Please, please, please, do not let "being nice" or "being fair" or "but the kids need their mom" or "it would break her heart" or anything get in the way of making sure your boys are with you, the stable parent.

Consider that if you pass this up now, you may never have another opportunity to parent equally.

...

Also consider -- if you are designated "primary" or "custodial" parent, there's nothing stopping you, in the far future, from coming up with a different parenting schedule. Sure, the boys may be with you more now, but because you're reasonable, you could potentially agree to something different (more time with Mom) down the road.

She cannot and will not play the same way. If she is designated "primary" or "custodial", she won't play by the same rules as you would. She may use that to weaponize the kids and parenting time against you, and will not see the situation as "playing fair" or "being reasonable for the kids". It becomes a new arena for her to be "on top" and you to be "put in your place".

...

Do whatever it takes to have the kids with you. This door does not stay open forever.
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« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2021, 11:24:35 AM »

Take the boys. Arrange for childcare. Set up your new flat.

The children will have a stable parent in a healthy household.

The children might actually end up getting the "best" of time with their mother, limited though it may be. It would be what she could do in short and manageable periods.
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« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2021, 03:20:30 PM »

Thank you so very much.

I may have historical recordings of her saying this. I will however make sure I'm recording conversations to have a recent proof of the fact.

I appreciate the certainty of the guidance you have all given. I will take the boys.

Yes, she can only manage short bursts.

I believe it's a matter of lack of confidence and energy to look after them. Hence her feeling to allow me to take the boys.

This morning she called me evil. At lunch time, she was subdued. This evening, she sweet and loving. She wrote me this -

[28/07, 19:12] Honey: Did you talk to a nanny already?
[28/07, 19:25] Honey: I am happy to start to refresh a relationship with your family. I said a lot about it to you half an year ago. I think you forgot.
[28/07, 19:27] Honey: I am focusing on forgiveness since I read the book.
[28/07, 19:27] Honey: It helped me to shift my growth in lots of way
[28/07, 19:30] Honey: I wanted you to see my world in order to hear or reflect or help but I Iearnt it doesn't work that way
[28/07, 19:33] Honey: Forgive me for my stage of being at that time and the mess I contribute to. It never was my intention to hurt or cause any pain. I needed to open my eyes which the book helped me in.
[28/07, 19:43] Honey: I love you very much honey. I think of you 3 always ❤️❤️❤️


This is triggering for me. It appears to be her pulling me in. If I think about it objectively, there is no commitment expressed regarding my clearly expressed desires: freedom to connect my boys with family of origin, my desire to have a nanny in the house at least a few hours a week so I can focus on work, etc.

There's no commitment, which is actually what I'm asking for. There's no new actions.

She's using what might be the most powerful tool - a rare expression of humility. But what I'm really seeking is new action. The freedom to be me. The freedom to support us all in new ways. The freedom to allow my boys to be loved by their wider family.

I feel my heart strings pulled and i also see the *forgetting* program playing out. It's the thing in my mind that WANTS me to forget that only those morning she called me evil. To believe that 'what if' she's being truthful and I make a terrible mistake by setting myself up with a new flat.

But I've been through this a few months ago. I thought things would get better, but I still find myself feeling trapped and her continuing with similar patterns.

We were due to go on holiday over the next two weeks. Nothing was ever booked. I wonder if she's just trying to pull me in to secure that I take us all to the beach.

She triggers the inner self doubt. There's even the tendency for my mind to say, what if things really aren't that bad?

I just find it so incredible how my mind is driven to believe her despite being severely emotionally abused for so many years. Why does my mind do this? Why does my mind keep wishing and is so willing to believe that things can suddenly change overnight.

Maybe it comes from childhood... Hoping my parents would be happy. Being happy with the times of peace, only to be disappointed again.

Wow... That feels true...

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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2021, 04:09:35 PM »

Words and promises mean little, it is the follow through, the actions going forward, which count.  The subsequent actions are what prove whether the words and promises had meaning.

We often speak of the endless FOG we experience.  What is this FOG?  Ponder how much each aspect has in your life and how you can successfully address each one:
FOG = Fear, Obligation, Guilt
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2021, 05:45:57 AM »

I look at patterns. Each event is one time but looking at patterns, can you see the push- pull?

While the examples I have posted here are not marital, and the situations are not the same-the patterns are similar.


You also have a pattern, the forgetting. I do this too. The pull to forget is very strong. When I see the "sweet side" the contriteness, the waif persona, I question "did this happen" "was it really my fault". The "pull" aspect is very compelling. I don't exactly know why. But I think seeing a glimpse of what we wish might be is part of it.

But looking closely as you have noticed, there's no real apology. There's no sense of awareness that the behavior affected you and you have been hurt. There's no real attempt to change ( there may be an empty promise). It's more "me me me". I call this the "dry erase board" conversation . "Look, I am good now" . No mention of what happened. And you don't dare bring it up.

For me, looking back at the patterns, it's been "wash, rinse, repeat".

Change is the product of time and work. It isn't instant. The instant turn around is not indicative of real change.

Read my previous post about the push pull. She pushed, you responded, now the pull. But you can also stick to your convictions, knowing this is a pattern of behavior.
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« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2021, 07:02:09 AM »

As mentioned, focused on action.

Words are pretty meaningless.  Give some time to observe action.  And dont put too much hope on a single event. 

A sustained pattern of action over a period of time.  Build from there.

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« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2021, 07:29:42 AM »

Thank you all... really, you are all wonderful. It's amazing how you're willing to share your experience strength and hope to help someone you've never met before... thank you...

I am struggling internally. She's saying she's willing to get a nanny "if" it's "not too stressful for the boys." If? This is the thing... I like to live with a spirit of resourcefulness knowing that we can do ANYTHING and the boys will enjoy it because we think it's great. "Too stressful for the boys" means too stressful for her. Most likely.

And here's the thing, she really wants to go on vacation next week to the beach. She's pushing for it. I wonder if her suddenly agreeable nature is just to secure the vacation, as well of course to avoid the threat of me leaving.

I am looking at a new flat in my area this afternoon.

I'm still so tempted to do it. Even sexually, I've been repressed and suppressed for so long, completely celibate with the exception of periodic (e.g. monthly, bi-monthly, yearly on occasion) sexual relation with my pwBPD. I did this in my devotion and commitment to her, as well as for my own spiritual growth as I used to be unhealthily attached to sexuality e.g. porn use, prior to meeting her.

Imagining myself to be free, feels good. Not to indulge unhealthily, but to experience new things.

I love the nourishment of potential healing practices such as massage, sauna, etc. These things heal me on a deep level, but due to her jealousy I've not done these things. 3 days ago I went for a sauna, and after I felt the lightness of well-being for the first time in many, many years. I feel so trapped in my relationship with her, due to her jealousy.

I feel the joy of freedom in the idea of going to my own place and not being so deeply committed to her sexually. Because there's no room for me to experience anything else, even my own self-pleasure, due to my commitment to her and my fear of doing something that is immoral somehow. I know these are my own issues and I'm working with two therapists on this currently.

But the point is... will I have increased time to live healthily? to do sport? it's not guaranteed... her response is too wishy washy about the support from a nanny. and I just realized she's ignored my request that I have the freedom to connect my boys with my family of origins through video calls whenever they feel to do so... she's not responding to that.

Sorry, I'm just reflecting whilst I write.

I see the push pull, I see the subtle way she's trying to stay in control, show a certain level of commitment and promise. She has however promised to visit england to see my family of origin at Christmas. She has actually commited to that.

So yes... I see the long-term, push-pull. I see her changeable ways, one hour calling me evil, another hour subdued. . . last time that it happened that I nearly left, she got subdued for months, a little bit more sweet... but ultimately nothing changed... she didn't allow the nanny... I continued to fall into that pattern of feeling trapped and not being able to be myself ...


I'll go see this flat at 4pm. Maybe, from the long-term pattern perspective, what she says right now is completely irrelevant. Whatever promises she makes shouldn't be a game-changer in terms of me staying or going. It's scary but I think I need to follow the feeling inside me to rent a place at least for 6 months or one year. I am certain that this action will provide me more freedom. She'll be extremely angry about the money I spend on this though... and I just noticed my fear about that... wow...
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« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2021, 07:33:39 AM »

I even feel scared to reveal to her my sauna trip or my desire to experience the healing therapy of massage.

I wonder if that fear is my own issue, or if that fear is actually a sign that I just don't feel safe to express myself on that level with her, to trust that she won't judge me, or use it against me one day in anger that I've cheated on her by doing these things or something.

I think I've come to a choice point where I'm so exhausted by the same patterns being in place for so long, that I'm ready to jump out. The attraction of being able to express and be myself and experience new things such as healthy massage and sauna and other therpeutic healing practices is so strong. I feel I'd be freer and happier and more joyful if I were to step away from her... sad to say but true.

She also offered for the first time in years just now to ask her parents to look after the boys this weekend so that her and I can have some alone time together...

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« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2021, 07:34:26 AM »

As mentioned, focused on action.

Words are pretty meaningless.  Give some time to observe action.  And dont put too much hope on a single event. 

A sustained pattern of action over a period of time.  Build from there.



Thanks. ok. Focusing on action not words or promises...
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« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2021, 08:59:47 AM »

You have done a lot of vacations with her. She seems to like being taken on vacation. Great, but what about you, what do you want?

So when does the indulgence stop?
Does is resolve anything?



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« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2021, 09:55:19 AM »

I do want the vacation for the boys.

But I think we have too many. And it's because I'm catering to her still in such a big way.

I feel the depths of my hurt, no crying or anything. Just an exhaustion. Maybe even a complete unwillingness to risk my heart and emotions any further.

I still feel she's glazing over and not being specific enough about her willingness to hear me.

I don't want to fight anymore to be myself.

I just saw the flat. With the exception of no furniture. It's beautiful. Just been completely renovated. A little bit on the pricey side, but I want to feel great in my new place. Perfect location. Perfect for home office. Perfect... I think I want it =(

=( because I never thought I would do it.

I feel it will protect my new job too. Help me to keep a clear mind to perform at my best when I start the new job September 1st and will have 3 months probation.

I think she doesn't think I'll do it. Not that this matters.

I can start paying from September 1st on 1 year contract. I think that is great and rare, a 1 year contract.

I told them I will confirm by 2pm tomorrow.

I could move my things gradually, and even sleep nights there during August. It would be the perfect arrangement.


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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2021, 11:18:48 AM »

FYI - what some pwBPD have done when they sensed their partner was distancing was to expand the bond... by having a baby or another baby.  Imagine if that were to happen, would it be easier or harder to continue with plans to separate?  Yeah, I figured so.

Ponder how not to risk another child in this decision time.  You can't trust her not to sabotage birth control.  All it takes is one "oops, I forgot!"
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