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Author Topic: It's hard...  (Read 10710 times)
truthdevotee
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« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2021, 11:33:59 AM »

Thank you ForeverDad

I've decided.

I'm aiming to rent from August 1st.

I will have a two week vacation. It's perfect timing.

I think it will hit hard for her. She won't expect it.

Therefore it's perfect timing to take the boys and give her the time to process it.

One of my intuitive nudges was that she asked for a vacation worth 3x the flat rent.

The home is perfect. I'm ready.
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« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2021, 01:28:51 PM »

You deserve to have a secure place for yourself and the boys, where you can work and also where you can have fun with your children without worry.

One of the biggest hurdles you’ll need to overcome is your desire for her approval. Once you realize that you’ll never get that on an ongoing basis, you will be a lot freer.

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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
truthdevotee
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« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2021, 02:14:33 PM »

You deserve to have a secure place for yourself and the boys, where you can work and also where you can have fun with your children without worry.

One of the biggest hurdles you’ll need to overcome is your desire for her approval. Once you realize that you’ll never get that on an ongoing basis, you will be a lot freer.

Thanks Cat.

I'll feel so free. It would be deeply healing to have a safe and sacred place. Home.

It's really interesting what you said about approval. I've never thought about it in this way.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2021, 03:12:57 PM »


Children- a much larger consideration. I vote with "take the boys" and in addition, have documentation that she said that if possible. My best guess is that once you actually take steps to do that, she would stop you having changed her mind to "he's taking the children from me". A form of the push pull behavior.

Yeah, this was her behaviour in the past. Complete 180 degree turns and instability. She would tell me that she can't come with us on a trip, and a few days later blame me for taking her kids away.

It is as if she's totally forgotten that I mentioned the possibility of me renting somewhere only a few days ago. I think, like my tendency to forget, she may be somewhat in denial. I think it will come as a big shock. I can't handle many more days with her. If the landlord agrees to me renting from August onwards, I could move in on Sunday. The flat has everything except sofa, beds and toys. Wouldn't take long to sort that out but I sense I shouldn't take the boys there until those things are ready. Everything else is there, fridge, oven, etc. Beautifully renovated flat i would be happy to live and work in.

When I tell her that I have actually rented, I need to be prepared with my approach. This means ready to record evidence of all our conversations from that point onwards. I don't know whether her initial response will be delayed or immediate, angry or depressed, etc.

The boys are attached to her as well as me. There are real benefits that she will likely understand in me having this space, such as home office, not needing to travel to work, saved time for me to help with childcare. On the other hand, it may hit hard that I've actually made the step due to our relationship.

Whatever her response, I'll be ready to continuously document evidence. I'm not sure when exactly to introduce the boys to their new home. It would depend on her initial response. If she says take them, I will do it. If she says they stay with her, I expect she wouldn't block me from seeing them, because she has no source of help except me.

I would expect that her feelings will continuously shift and there might be inconsistency. On the other hand, she might go ice cold and repress all emotion, with the realization that I've made a step that she can't manipulate or change... Signing of a 1 year contract. It is possible that in realizing I'm beyond seekimg approval, that she turns tough and ice cold.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2021, 06:40:16 PM »

I would not take the vacation. It gives a mixed signal to her. "I am moving out" doesn't fit with "we are taking a holiday together". It's a fuzzy boundary and confusing to her, even misleading.

And her behavior may confuse you as she may be on her best behavior. I would also pay close attention to Forever Dad's post. You are quite vulnerable to affection at the moment and one thing can lead to another. I won't elaborate. You know where babies come from.

You can later take a fun holiday just you and the boys.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2021, 01:03:34 AM »

I would not take the vacation. It gives a mixed signal to her. "I am moving out" doesn't fit with "we are taking a holiday together". It's a fuzzy boundary and confusing to her, even misleading.

And her behavior may confuse you as she may be on her best behavior. I would also pay close attention to Forever Dad's post. You are quite vulnerable to affection at the moment and one thing can lead to another. I won't elaborate. You know where babies come from.

You can later take a fun holiday just you and the boys.

Thanks Notwendy. The way you have written this has strengthened my awareness a lot. To recognise that I'm vulnerable to affection is so true, and so eye opening that this is what is actually happening to me. It's my naivety and false hope due to the trauma of my childhood.

That her behaviour may confuse me as she may be on her best behaviour. It's hard to express how eye opening this is. It's like the truth has suddenly exploded into my awareness. This is what is happening and why I'm so hurt and hit by doubt sometimes. It's so confusing. I think confusing was one of the first words i used in this thread. That confusion is really damaging to the psyche. And it must be trauma related from childhood. I'm realising that the influence of trauma is subtle and invisible, but strong in my mind and influences all my decision making.

Yeah, I don't want the vacation. The fact that it was the cost of three months rent was in my mind a trigger. I thought "well, here she is willing to spend this money without any concern about whether I even want the holiday, and I could use the same money to pay for just over 3 months rent..." That was a big shift for me to think I could save on this holiday and pay 1/4 of the yearly contract.

I'll hear this morning whether the landlord accepts or not...

If he does, I'll start by contacting a nanny that I spotted in the past that was willing to help at our place of residence. Unfortunately, my ex-pwBPD didn't want her... I think due to jealousy and also not wanting someone in the house. If she's available, it would be great too.

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truthdevotee
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« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2021, 01:12:03 AM »

Just a note about the potential for another baby as she increases her affections.

My ex-pwBPD for a long time over the years was raging and abusing me on a continuous basis. This really impacted her sex drive I'm sure. Due to two pregnancies also, we went for very long periods without any sexual relationship.

I was celibate through all this time. I don't know if that was healthy or not. However, I wonder if it has added a lot of stress to my life. Also because I was celibate as a way to express my devotion to her. I wouldn't engage in any sexuality unless it was shared with her. I also welcomed this as a spiritual practice, as I used to over-indulge in this aspect of my life in my teens and 20s.

Over the last 4 months, I became more and more aware of my desire to avoid physical contact with her. This happened within me on an emotional level. I actually shared this with her vulnerably the last time I nearly left the house (around 3 months ago), and it definitely hit her and made her think. I didn't do this to control her, I did it with a newfound desire to go within myself and find what is true for me, emotionally. Despite that, things returned to the same pattern.

I was helped throughout the celibacy period with medications (SSRI and a stimulant for ADHD). I'm now seeing a therapist who will help me taper off the medications, gradually, bit by bit.

So, the risk of us ever having sex again is extremely low, because I just don't feel it. For the first time in my life, it would feel dishonest. I say for the first time, because I used to be completely unaware of the emotional level of relationship and the need for compatibility between partners. That sounds crazy, but it's true since I didn't have a healthy relationship modelled to me in childhood, and no one taught me how important it is to find a new partner.

So I come out of all of this with grazes, but blessed by spiritual growth. I'm now aware that choosing a partner and engaging in sexual relations is extremely important. I have a valuable lesson to teach the boys: sexual integrity as well as the conscious choosing of how and when to engage in sexual experiences and relationships, as well how to recognize partners that may be compatible (a LOT for me to learn in this regard, over the next few years. I suppose I'm just at the beginning of this journey, having learned through and through what a relationship shouldn't look like). In the past, I would get together with whomever, not really thinking about compatibility and emotional realities. Hence, I got burned over this time, and didn't have the strength to dig myself out despite so many alarm bells going off within me in the first few months of our relationship.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2021, 05:59:27 AM »

I think a main point is that going on a nice holiday together at the same time as moving out sends confusing mixed messages. It's not a firm boundary. I think it's also important to recognize your own vulnerabilities and have boundaries due to that. Low possibility isn't the same as zero. If you are going to be separated then a clear boundary includes physical- not spending a lot of time together, not spending night time together ( when boys are asleep). This is for your sake and also for hers. It would send a mixed message to her.

Yes, the expensive vacations. Money is also a common issue too with some BPD relationships.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2021, 06:55:39 AM »

I think a main point is that going on a nice holiday together at the same time as moving out sends confusing mixed messages. It's not a firm boundary. I think it's also important to recognize your own vulnerabilities and have boundaries due to that. Low possibility isn't the same as zero. If you are going to be separated then a clear boundary includes physical- not spending a lot of time together, not spending night time together ( when boys are asleep). This is for your sake and also for hers. It would send a mixed message to her.

Yes, the expensive vacations. Money is also a common issue too with some BPD relationships.

Thanks, Notwendy.

Wow... it's amazing because I feel that even though I'm moving (if approved already by landlord), I'm unsure about the boundaries. I need to be decisive about where I will sleep, for example. Because I"m still so under control and lacking self-trust and strength and fear of her disapproval, she still has more ability to shape things then I want.

I can see that this fuzziness in terms of boundaries will send mix messages.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2021, 06:57:14 AM »

I need to go deeper and listen if I'm truly open to the possibility of us getting back together in the long term. It could be that even this idea is naive, and only a reflection of the sadness of the family not staying "intact" (not that it ever was "intact"). I need to think carefully how to communicate what is happening.

I also need to think carefully exactly how to provide support.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2021, 07:21:48 AM »

The owner of the flat is considering another person who can rent for 4 years.

Maybe I should offer 1.5 years instead of 1 year, to increase likelihood of me being chosen.
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« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2021, 07:27:38 AM »

Boundaries are personal, and something you decide on. If a separation is what you want, either temporary or not, just be clear what your boundaries are. Inconsistent boundaries send a mixed signal and are confusing.

I have seen members on this even divorce and then resume a physical relationship, or something that is off/on. None of us are here to tell someone what to do, or not to do, but just to be aware that boundaries are hard to maintain and to do that, be clear about what yours are. The other message is to know what boundary you are able to maintain. Having a boundary that is constantly broken sends the message that your boundary is meaningless.

Know that you are human and protect your boundaries. If someone commits to a healthy diet, if they really want to stick to that, then they should not go into a candy store.

Consider what boundaries ( boundaries are on you, not something you make her do) and what you are able to maintain. Be honest about the ones you can't. Decide what steps to take to ensure you keep yours. Someone on a healthy diet might choose to not keep any sweets in the house.

In this context you can see that if you decide on a trial separation, then go on a lovely holiday together, the boundary of wanting a separation is inconsistent and fuzzy. Like someone is on a diet and yet buys a box of sweets.

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truthdevotee
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« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2021, 02:48:08 AM »

Boundaries are personal, and something you decide on. If a separation is what you want, either temporary or not, just be clear what your boundaries are. Inconsistent boundaries send a mixed signal and are confusing.

I have seen members on this even divorce and then resume a physical relationship, or something that is off/on. None of us are here to tell someone what to do, or not to do, but just to be aware that boundaries are hard to maintain and to do that, be clear about what yours are. The other message is to know what boundary you are able to maintain. Having a boundary that is constantly broken sends the message that your boundary is meaningless.

Know that you are human and protect your boundaries. If someone commits to a healthy diet, if they really want to stick to that, then they should not go into a candy store.

Consider what boundaries ( boundaries are on you, not something you make her do) and what you are able to maintain. Be honest about the ones you can't. Decide what steps to take to ensure you keep yours. Someone on a healthy diet might choose to not keep any sweets in the house.

In this context you can see that if you decide on a trial separation, then go on a lovely holiday together, the boundary of wanting a separation is inconsistent and fuzzy. Like someone is on a diet and yet buys a box of sweets.




Thanks Notwendy. I just drafted some thoughts about how this might work. I am not yet confirmed 100% for the house, but will hear today if I can have the keys by tomorrow.

Here are my thoughts (anybody please do feel free to offer your guidance):

The primary purpose is not home office. Don’t frame it this way.
The primary purpose is a trial separation.
This means time for us both to do what we need, with the added support of a nanny at my place of residence.
To have sustained time apart to reflect on what we need and want.
During this time, we won’t have sex with another person. But we can create new friendships, meet new people, have new experiences e.g. therapies, well-being, etc.
I will work from home most of the time, to reduce travel.
She needs to get a debit card and stop relying on me to give her cash (she lost hers a few months ago and never got a new one)
She needs to shop and cook and clean in her home
I need to shop and cook and clean in mine
We can meet for dates periodically
I would welcome her to start considering going back to work, to reflect on what her goals are now that the boys are 4 and 2 years old
Since we sleep separately with each boy in a separate room, I will continue to support for the time-being at bedtimes in their current home
If they are at my home for bedtime, (probably not until October), I will do bedtime by myself
During working days, I will take them out on trips in the late afternoon/evening. I am not sure in this regard if she should be welcome to come on trips too, the reason is because I know the boys enjoy us all being together…
I would welcome use of the car, which she is the owner of, however for which I have paid all petrol and all insurance on since we got it and for which I continue to pay insurance. Additionally, I have driven about 6000km on the car and she’s driven about 30km.
If she prefers me not to use “her car,” I would get my own asap.



On another topic, I just had a great moment with my older son which brings up a question (he is 4). He was in a tantrum about the size of his piece of bread, partly due to dehydration when he woke up because of the heat at the lake yesterday evening.

After a while of waiting to see if he will calm by himself, whilst holding him in a peaceful ball of light in my mind, he hadn't calmed down yet. The peaceful ball visualization also helped me to stay regulated.

I lovingly and strongly picked him up, took him to another room and let him know that I will need to hold him until he stops. After a few seconds, I let him go and told him I'll count to three, and he needs to calm down by himself or I'll hold him again.

It was as if a gentle field of peace descended upon us. Even our younger boy 2 years old, joined to feel what is happening.

As soon as we got to 3, those emotions started to arise again. I encouraged him how great he's doing, and we're going to go to 10.

Again, he was peaceful until 10, and the emotions started to arise again. And I said, let's count to 5. Again, he calmed. And at that point he was open to listen. I said this is your next birthday, 5 years old, and what you've just done is amazing, you are now a big boy, you just grew up. We learned the words emotional regulation (the younger one did too and learned through the whole experience). We talked about how what he just did is like a 10 year old boy! (slight exageration, but only for the purpose of lifting him up).

The question that is brought up is that my ex-pwBPD won't do this. She allows him to pull on her arm, shout and scream, and she rather tries to pursuade him out of it or gets angry in return. She has a gentle approach in general, most of the time, and is very patient with their emotions, but still, there's no real boundary setting.

I felt that she was listening in to the whole ordeal, and after she asked if that was healthy. We talked about the limbic system, emotional regulation through the pre-frontal cortex, and why counting to 10 probably had a beneficial effect. Talked about the middle path between repression and expression (she's a believer in expression, as you can imagine with BPD), resulting in an adult in balance between the emotional worlds and world of self-control and awareness.

Question is... would I be doing the boys a disservice by leaving them alone with her?
I ask this tentatively, because I know ultimately the reason I'm choosing to do the trial separation is due to my periodic intense confusion and emotional pain. I could be a much better version of myself by being alone for a while, which is ALSO important for the boys.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 02:54:28 AM by truthdevotee » Logged
truthdevotee
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« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2021, 02:57:55 AM »

Note:

ex-pwBPD continues to speak of the holiday, what our plans will be. The Italy thing fell through, which I'm happy about (I wouldn't have gone anyway). Now she's speaking of trip in the car and camping.

I'm waiting to hear from the owner this morning as, if he says yes, I have the flat by tomorrow.

If he doesn't say yes, then I'm stuck for another month. In which case, I'd probably prefer to do the driving/camping thing maybe heading to a neighbouring European country.

For now I'm just glazing over when she talks about "what's our plan?"

She's very agreeable the last 2 days. This is of course confusing to me. All the old doubts come up. "Oh, what if she's like this all the time and I'm just making a big deal?" Etc. Etc. Etc. I'm aware now that I'm very vulnerable to this, and it doesn't indicate a long-term pattern change.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2021, 05:18:50 AM »

I think the list is a good start - to give you something to think about- but keep in mind the boundaries are for you, not her. You have no control over her, but you do have control over how you respond to her.

Here are your "I" boundaries:

The primary purpose is not home office. I will not frame it this way.
The primary purpose is a trial separation.
This means time for me to do what I need, with the added support of a nanny at my place of residence.
To have sustained time apart to reflect on what I need and want.

I will work from home most of the time, to reduce travel.

I need to shop and cook and clean in mine

I would welcome her to start considering going back to work, to reflect on what her goals are now that the boys are 4 and 2 years old
Since we sleep separately with each boy in a separate room, I will continue to support for the time-being at bedtimes in their current home
If they are at my home for bedtime, (probably not until October), I will do bedtime by myself
During working days, I will take them out on trips in the late afternoon/evening.
I would welcome use of the car, which she is the owner of, however for which I have paid all petrol and all insurance on since we got it and for which I continue to pay insurance. Additionally, I have driven about 6000km on the car and she’s driven about 30km.
If she prefers me not to use “her car,” I would get my own asap.

The we and her statements are not boundaries, they are wishes but not boundaries. Your boundaries are about you, so frame them this way:


During this time, I won’t have sex with another person. But I can create new friendships, meet new people, have new experiences e.g. therapies, well-being, etc.  If she has sex with someone, I would respond by ________________( if you even knew about it)


She needs to get a debit card and stop relying on me to give her cash (she lost hers a few months ago and never got a new one)  ( she needs to do this, this is not a boundary- but I would be cautious about her having complete access- she could drain the account- you can't control how much she takes) Instead " I will set up a joint bank account and put a set amount of money in it per week and issue her a debit card"

She needs to shop and cook and clean in her home ( she will have to figure that out herself)

I will invite her on some outings with the boys but some of our outings will be just me and the boys (the reason is because I know the boys enjoy us all being together)


We can meet for dates periodically- fuzzy- this seems romantic. How about just sticking to outings with the boys. If you need to discuss something just the two of you, I suggest a coffee place- a quiet corner, as she's less likely to blow up in public. Another suggesting could be in a therapists office with someone to help you communicate. A romantic dinner date may send a confusing message unless you are ready to get back together.
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« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2021, 05:28:52 AM »

On the child tantrum. I think being calm around the boys is good, - this is a normal stage of development as they learn emotional regulation. The important part is the adult's ability to regulate their emotion and the visualization for you works to do that- so good. Letting him calm down on his own is good.

I don't think your wife's response to the tantrum isn't ideal but it would be a stretch to consider it child abuse unless the anger included verbal abuse and yelling. I wonder if the two of you attending parenting classes might help. As to not being alone with her, it's more the whole picture than a single tantrum that would lead to that decision.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2021, 05:33:36 AM »

Thank you so much for this help. It's so incredible.

Don't have time to reply in detail now. Will do so later. Just want to thank you.

Still waiting to hear about the house.
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« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2021, 07:13:35 AM »

During this time, I won’t have sex with another person. But I can create new friendships, meet new people, have new experiences e.g. therapies, well-being, etc.



Be careful with this one. It sounds a lot like- "during this time, I won't eat any sweets but I will walk by the sweet shop, smell the baking cookies, walk in, look at them, maybe buy one, but no, I won't eat one"

Or an alcoholic- " I can go in the wine shop, hold the glass of wine,  but I won't take a drink"

It is said if you jump into a new relationship before resolving your part in the current or old one, you risk repeating your issues with someone else. It's also an escape from your own feelings. My advice to you is to set another boundary such as
avoiding friendships with any women, Yes, have a support system, see your male friends, therapists, but know you are very vulnerable and set some strong boundaries so you don't find yourself in difficult to resist situation.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2021, 07:40:02 AM »

Thanks a lot Notwendy. I have lots to say. Will get back later on this.

Unfortunately I was just informed that the other family sent confirmation of payment. They're supposed to sign contract next Thursday. Long time. I'll have to wait.

I think I need to take them on holiday. My ex doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes.
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« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2021, 08:09:06 AM »

I'll need to keep looking.

My ex doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes.

I'm avoiding physical contact.

I think the best way forward is the vacation and then organising a flat to rent from September.

Is possible that the current family won't follow through. I'll know next Thursday. But I expect they will follow through.
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« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2021, 10:24:13 AM »

You have momentum going now...don't stop now.
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truthdevotee
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« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2021, 11:22:11 AM »

You have momentum going now...don't stop now.

It hit me quite hard.

I am aware she's ramping up the sweetness. In part cos she needs me for the holiday. Perhaps because she knows I'm edging away. For the first time ever, she offered to call my family today.

It's as if it's over for me. It's as if I've spent all the chances I gave her. In some strange way I'm scared that she'd now improve, angry at the idea of all the suffering I've been through. I see the element of blame inside me. Letting that go. All this occurs in silence within me. Best way is silence. Its the only way I can stay true to myself.

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« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2021, 11:28:59 AM »

I suppose it hit hard as I had prepared well. Even by composing the message in advance. I must have formed an unconscious attachment to the idea of it working out by August 1st.

I don't feel to be touched by her or to touch her. I can see that she's showing her body around the house in a way, it feels, to see if I'll notice. I don't want to notice. I don't feel it anymore.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2021, 05:36:05 PM »

What she is doing is referred to as a Hail Mary Pass, an American idiom that I need to define here as making a play out of desperation that has a very slim chance of success.  https://grammarist.com/idiom/hail-mary-play-or-hail-mary-pass/

She undoubtedly has noticed your increasing independence and wants to rein you back into control.

As others have mentioned, it’s likely that she will try the getting pregnant strategy, should you be tempted.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2021, 01:05:18 AM »

What she is doing is referred to as a Hail Mary Pass, an American idiom that I need to define here as making a play out of desperation that has a very slim chance of success.  https://grammarist.com/idiom/hail-mary-play-or-hail-mary-pass/

She undoubtedly has noticed your increasing independence and wants to rein you back into control.

As others have mentioned, it’s likely that she will try the getting pregnant strategy, should you be tempted.

Thank you Cat. I hadn't heard that term before. Sounds very true.

I won't engage in any sexual activity with her. I'll be wary of any temptation arising within me over the next month.

I decided to take them on this holiday. A cheaper one in which we will use the car.

I'm not a big fan of driving next to her, but things have improved, as she knows now any time I feel even minor anxiety, I stop the car. Thus, she knows she needs good self control in the car (she hates stopping, itchy to arrive at the destination. Hence she's quiet).

The holiday will avoid transparency about my plan. The boys will grow from it. I will have more freedom to be alone e.g. At the beach, etc. She will be more peaceful and happy.

I need to be more open and friendly than I was yesterday. I was hit by the fact the house didn't work out. From today on, at least more openness, to avoid her feeling that I'm too independent.

Ill avoid all physical touch, which she will notice, but I can't pretend I want it or am open to it.

Only downside, I will not be able to visit flats over the next two weeks. I'll have to use the latter two weeks of August. My older son will return to school then, too. I plan to try get my younger son two days at a private kindergarten, as he's stuck at home with her and he's not growing from it
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« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2021, 01:35:52 AM »

One of my main worries about the next month is that I might get caught up again.

I don't know if this represents a lack of openness on my side to see things work out, or a feeling of just not wanting to be with her anymore.

Should I be more assertive about the things I want this month? E. G. Connecting with family of origin on video calls?
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« Reply #56 on: August 01, 2021, 11:16:52 AM »

If you are really wanting to get a good overview of whether or not she is trying to change, call your family and notice how she responds.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #57 on: August 01, 2021, 12:53:50 PM »

Thanks Cat.

Somehow, imagining calling them, with her, it brings up pain for me. I don't like that, to be myself, or to live freely, I've had to expend so much effort over so many years. It's as if she is begrudgingly following along now. Quietly. That's a step forward, a willingness on her part to change. But there are so many other things -

1. She's not willing to share the ownership on our flat, despite all my money pouring in for so many years

2. There's nothing off limits when she's splitting, name calling, telling me not to use 'her car' despite that I drive all miles, pay all petrol and insurance, etc. Dishonesty, lying, etc. No self honesty.

3. I can't trust her proper support

4. The block to getting a nanny's support is still high. Would be very hard to make happen. Ultimately the lack of nanny support causes her exhaustion, which comes onto me, increases her stress and splitting, impacts my job, etc. Starting new job September 1st

5. Everything from conversation, to decision making, to speed of taking action, etc. Is so different between us. I find this aspect more and more intolerable

6. She agrees to visit my family of origin at Christmas the last time I nearly left. I said we are going and if she doesn't come or she blocks me from taking the boys, I'll go alone

7. Money. Everything is questioned, checked, etc. and I feel trapped despite being more and more assertive in following my heart

8. I don't want to have sex with her anymore. But if this a lack of forgiveness on my part?

9. She still does not tell me how much money she has in her bank account, despite me giving everything to her for many years

10. I still have my WhatsApp blocked because she can't be trusted to read messages sent to me by my family of origin without dysregulating. She has no interest in my sisters. With my mom and dad she is a bit softer

I write all this to become conscious of all the reasons I would choose to leave. There are many many more things that have happened but which are dormant or perhaps have disappeared. I don't know.

Somehow I'm scared to give her more chances, because I'm angry that I have to go to such extremes to be heard.

I want to feel comfortable calling my family of origin at home with her there or not (I always communicate I prefer her there) with the boys on video call. I've asked for this since my first son was born. It's as if there is still an invisible wall I would have to break through with much effort. Perhaps in part, my need to take a risk and face my fear. Yesterday she offered we call my parents and my sister. That was progress.

I think given what's happening, my growing independence, she's more amenable and making changes. But I dislike that I have to make do much effort to be heard on simple things that don't need to be discussed. Like who I call and when, and whether I'm 'allowed' to include the boys.

I feel nervous calling them around her, because I know she's listening in. For the first time since my sister's children were born, 6 years ago, I sent a gift. I didn't ask permission. Just sent it. I was not 'allowed' in the past, so I just did it knowing that to make changes I can't wait for her. It took me a few days to pluck up the courage to share the video my sister she her daughter sent us to say thanks. Her response was in essence, what about me?

I think the purpose of this post is, perhaps there's so much I'm unhappy about, that the change wouldn't be quick enough. I want to live my life happily. With her by my side, it's not enjoyable. She appears to be shifting, slowly, gradually over the years, but... I've in the last week gotten excited about freedom. It was eye opening how sad I felt about the house not working out.

So it's as if I'm tired of trying and giving her chances. So I don't know if I want to call them with her any more. But does this sound like I'm lacking an open heart and forgiveness? Open heartedness and forgiveness are my values, so I would want that. It's just I'm exhausted and sad and can just forgive her from a distance perhaps.

Ultimately I suppose it comes down to this question -

Do I, and will I, any time soon, feel like a happy equal partner to her, even if she allows me to call my family of origin and send gifts to them, without complaining?

Not now and I don't think so any time soon...

Am I happy next to her? No...

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GaGrl
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« Reply #58 on: August 01, 2021, 01:16:58 PM »

I see two possibilities...

1) She is trying to change. However, the change is slow and not to the point your marriage could be called equal. The financials are seriously out of order. Without concentrated therapy on her part and boundaries on your part, she may never achieve the level of change you need.

2) She is appearing to make changes, because she wanted to go on vacation again, and because she we need you are withdraeing, and this raises her anxiety. So she will "behave" until she feels you are under her control again.

Time will tell.
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"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
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« Reply #59 on: August 01, 2021, 02:16:45 PM »

I see two possibilities...

1) She is trying to change. However, the change is slow and not to the point your marriage could be called equal. The financials are seriously out of order. Without concentrated therapy on her part and boundaries on your part, she may never achieve the level of change you need.

2) She is appearing to make changes, because she wanted to go on vacation again, and because she we need you are withdraeing, and this raises her anxiety. So she will "behave" until she feels you are under her control again.

Time will tell.


Thank you so much for the clarity your post brings!

My intuition based on the history of the relationship is that number 2 is operating at the highest degree at this moment, and number 1 is simultaneously temporarily accelerated too. Number 1 is a true intention in her life at a soul level, there is a sincere Light and spark of interest in growth and not wanting to past patterns into her kids, however, this spark is most of the time very dim and temporarily increases its flame when things are scary for her e.g. the threat of me leaving, her fear of cancer, etc. When the flame increases she reads a bit about growth.

Point 1 gives me much clarity. Yes, it's very slow, and that's why I'm not happy and fulfilled. And the finances feel so unfair. I think, by leaving, the likelihood of her entering therapy is higher than if I stay.
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