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Author Topic: Do Your pwBPD Act Like Nothing Ever Happened?  (Read 2734 times)
Oh Brother

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« on: August 05, 2021, 05:22:10 PM »

I see this behavior in my uBPDs, so I'd like to find out if other people here see it in their pwBPD.

The behavior is that my uBPDs will resume communicating or interacting with someone (like our mother, or me) without first clearing the air about bad behavior she exhibited in her last communication or interaction with that someone.  She acts as if nothing ever happened and everything is perfectly normal.

It's a behavior I find particularly maddening, because it's challenging for me to have "normal" relations with people when there is some kind of cloud hanging over, that is not cleared away first.  And this has been a definite, noticeable pattern of behavior in my uBPDs for quite some time.
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2021, 05:44:56 PM »

hi OhBrother,
Yes, my BPD Mom does this.

It's as if since in her mind she wished the problem away (without apology of course) then it didn't happen.  Again, I am just an extension of her, without any real identity of my own, so it's natural that for her to be done means I'm done.

b
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2021, 05:07:53 AM »

Yes, my own term for this is the "dry erase board" apology. Poof! All gone
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Oh Brother

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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2021, 09:38:23 AM »

Yes, my own term for this is the "dry erase board" apology. Poof! All gone

OMG that's perfect!
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2021, 10:01:58 AM »

Mine doesn't do that. But, in her mind, whenever she does something hurtful and there's tension, it's somehow my fault. For example, she once sent me some nasty messages about something that she imagined I was thinking and doing, and I was hurt, so I wrote back explaining that I was hurt and needed some space. Then she wrote back saying that I have no problem saying when I've been hurt, but have no consideration for others. She didn't communicate anymore until I finally called and apologized. So until I apologize (for what I couldn't tell you), she gives me the silent treatment and ignores me.  Which she has now been doing for 2 years since I finally stood up and refused to give in to her. I am realizing I I definitely prefer it this way.
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Methuen
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2021, 10:29:54 PM »

In short, yes.  It’s a lifelong  pattern of hers. It’s like  she hits the delete button, and poof - it never happened - for her. I suspect it’s an unconscious survival strategy’s - for living with herself after doing/saying terrible things to another person.
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etown

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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2021, 03:17:12 PM »

This is so relatable! My BPD mom will do something absolutely horrifying and then dive into a conversation a few days later like it never happened. She used to do this when I was a kid with frightening regularity and there were times when it felt like I was crazy for still feeling hurt when she seemed fine.

But it wasn't always for the same reason. Sometimes I think she would genuinely dissociate. Like, she would have no memory of what she had done and that was why she was able to move past it so easily. Other times, she would bring the thing up later but completely rewritten so it was either innocuous (she was just trying to teach me a lesson like the "excellent" mom she was) or somehow my fault.

Whatever the reason, I'm slowly learning that I have to honour my own feelings because I can never expect her to. It's such a painful lesson, but it's good to know I'm not the only one who's experienced this!
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Oh Brother

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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2021, 05:55:53 PM »

This is so relatable!
...
Whatever the reason, I'm slowly learning that I have to honour my own feelings because I can never expect her to. It's such a painful lesson, but it's good to know I'm not the only one who's experienced this!

Thank you etown!  It's valuable to know other people with pwBPD have seen this behavior too (though I'm sorry you and I and others have to deal with it).

Yes!  That lesson is very important.  When I've sought trusted counsel on how to deal with my uBPDs, the best advice I've received and relied on is that I have to be authentic to myself, and my own perception of events and reality, and my own instincts on how to interpret and react to that.  So that is what I strive to do, even when it means I have to confront my uBPDs and hold her accountable for her behavior.
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pursuingJoy
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2021, 10:46:19 AM »

I'm with etown as far as the memory - most of the time she doesn't remember saying/doing it. At least sometimes, I think that's true.

Some of the time I believe that she intends to hurt people but feels justified in doing so because of the hurt she feels.

I've been accused of being selfish, so sometimes I try to apply concepts to other scenarios to make sure they stand up. I've hurt others. When I minimize my actions, claim good intent, or deflect by saying it was in response to something they did, I'm causing the same harm. Even if I didn't remember doing it the first time -  if I ignore their feedback, don't apologize, and do the same thing again, I'd expect them to set boundaries with me.

So that is what I strive to do, even when it means I have to confront my uBPDs and hold her accountable for her behavior.

I didn't have any success with confronting and holding the person accountable. I set boundaries that kept me in my yard, starting with accepting the reality that they had BPD and changing my expectations that they would change or understand. This helped me identify longer term goals that helped me decide which battles to fight.


« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 10:52:07 AM by pursuingJoy » Logged

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Oh Brother

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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2021, 11:31:29 AM »

I didn't have any success with confronting and holding the person accountable. I set boundaries that kept me in my yard, starting with accepting the reality that they had BPD and changing my expectations that they would change or understand. This helped me identify longer term goals that helped me decide which battles to fight.

If success is defined as getting the pwBPD to change their behavior, then I haven't had any either, with confronting and holding the person accountable.  She can't take accountability for her past behavior; it's part of the disorder.

However it's important to me, for my mental health, to let her know when she has behaved in ways I find unacceptable, when the behavior is egregious enough that I decide to fight that battle.  I too have realized that she has BPD, and abandoned expectations that she will change or understand.

Long term goals are an interesting thing to think about.  First, for me, is not allowing her to abuse me or my family any more.  After that I will have to give it some consideration.  It's challenging to maintain compassion for a person who has acted so crazily and cruelly towards me, my mother, my wife, and my daughters.
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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2021, 12:12:20 PM »

Absolutely, often! To be honest, sometimes I'm glad for that, because there's nothing to be gained from trying to rehash what went wrong anyway!
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Onyx22

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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2021, 02:16:19 PM »

I used to be proud that I was able to just stop being mad/upset/hurt. If there was a conflict in my family, if whoever was no longer upset I would take any feelings I had and put them away. I thought I was being mature and keeping the peace.
It was actually because the alternative was that I became the person 'creating conflict' if I showed feelings.

My uBPD mom could go from 0 to 100 and back in an instant. While the pwBPD isn't getting their way, they'll throw a fit. Once they have their way there's no problem, why would anyone be upset? -_-
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Mtnlvr8

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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2021, 11:32:15 AM »

I used to be proud that I was able to just stop being mad/upset/hurt. If there was a conflict in my family, if whoever was no longer upset I would take any feelings I had and put them away. I thought I was being mature and keeping the peace.
It was actually because the alternative was that I became the person 'creating conflict' if I showed feelings.


100% relate to this! Even now that I've started to change the pattern I still have moments of doubt where I feel like I should go back to absorbing my hurt and moving on...especially when I talk to others who don't really get the situation. I started with a new therapist recently who says thing like "When someone hurts us to that degree, there needs to be an apology or acknowledgment for us to move on." I think I've never let myself think of it that way because she doesn't seem capable of doing that and I have wanted to maintain the relationship so badly. It doesn't change the fact that I need it, I'm starting to realize it may just mean that I can't move forward with her as long as she is not capable of apologizing or acknowledging her behavior.
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Oh Brother

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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2021, 11:42:33 AM »

I started with a new therapist recently who says thing like "When someone hurts us to that degree, there needs to be an apology or acknowledgment for us to move on." I think I've never let myself think of it that way because she doesn't seem capable of doing that and I have wanted to maintain the relationship so badly. It doesn't change the fact that I need it, I'm starting to realize it may just mean that I can't move forward with her as long as she is not capable of apologizing or acknowledging her behavior.

Yes!  Exactly!  A compelling point by your new therapist.  I have often asked my uBPDs to apologize for the wicked behavior she exhibits when she's raging, but she can't.  In my lay opinion that may be due to vulnerable narcissism co-morbid with her BPD.  She just has to be right.  She can't take accountability for her past actions and behavior.  And I'm unable to just resume interacting with her as if nothing ever happened.  I have to have some kind of clearing of the air first.  But I've given up thinking that will ever happen.  All of which is part of why I've determined to follow a NC approach.
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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2021, 12:10:40 PM »

My family members and acquaintances with BPD and/or NPD badly abuse another person and then act as if it never happened.
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beatricex
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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2021, 10:05:03 PM »

My BPD mother gaslights us extensively.  Pretending like bad behavior didn't happen is an extreme form of gaslighting, imo.  I think the compulsion she has to manipulate others is the reason for the bad behavior, that *poof* then disappears at her convenience.

An example might help.

Mom comes to my house, tells me she thinks my brother in law probably gang raped his coworker and that is the reason - she thinks - for why my sister decided to divorce him.  She came to my house next a month later, same story.  I got completely agitated, and anxious because I know she makes up similar stories about me to others.  Like she does the whole "I bet..." and then a mic drop.  Is this for attention?  Is it a sick game?  No, she needs me to be afraid of her.  The implication is she will do the same to me - slander me behind my back if I don't comply with whatever it is she wants. 

Several months later, she comes to my house.  These are three consecutive in person visits by the way, with no other communication in between.  By this point my sister's divorce is final. Guess what?  She completely forgets her theory and she acts like my brother in law is her best friend (his mom cuts her hair, even though she's retired and doesn't have a salon anymore).   My mom drives 5 hours to get her hair cut by this woman, probably just to keep up the appearance that she's not slandering her son behind his back. She says, equally weirdly and completely out of contex to the visit because I didn't ask, just like in her previous two visits to me, that my brother in law "already has a girlfriend and is now very happy (since the divorce)."

So, which is he?  A criminal or her new best friend?  Why even talk to him or his mother?  Why talk about him to me?  I didn't ask!  Also, for years she tried to break my sister and him up. 

I should probably add that she knows I HATE talking about others in the family.  I don't like her mind games and she knows that I will cut her off if she acts like this.  I was previously no contact with her for 7 years and the reason given was I didn't appreciate her manipulations, didn't want to be her 'favorite' because implied is I have to gang up on others with her.  This felt a lot like a test to see if I would bad mouth my brother in law with her.  Tactic failed, so she decides to forget the whole thing and switches teams.  She is now team brother and law.  I was waiting for her to start bad mouthing my sister.

completely crazy making.  ugh

b
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 10:18:33 PM by beatricex » Logged
beatricex
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« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2021, 08:25:46 AM »

This article has been helpful to me and I read it about once a month to remind myself that my Mom did not "forget" the bad behavior.

https://www.northpointrecovery.com/blog/gaslighting-examples-effects-confront-abuse/

What are Some Common Gaslighting Tactics?
There are several forms of gaslighting and this type of behavior often happens in stages. Some of the most common tactics people use include:

Denying something for the purpose of confusing you. They may have said something, but even if there is clear proof, they will deny it. The purpose is to deny the reality of the situation and to get you to feel as though you imagined it.
Telling lies about you. Gaslighters frequently tell lies and they act as though they are shocked when they are confronted about it. These individuals do not try to be sneaky about their lies; instead, they tell them with such conviction that it can make you doubt the truth.
Actions that do not line up with what they are saying. Gaslighters will typically twist the truth to make you question your own sanity. But their actions are very different from what they are saying.
Projecting onto others. Gaslighters will frequently accuse others for their own faults or shortcomings. Cheating spouses will often accuse their partners of cheating in an attempt to take the focus off themselves.
Manipulating you by using your friends or loved ones against you. They may try to get you to turn against people you care about as a way to isolate you and give the gaslighter more control over you.
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karaokequeen

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« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2021, 06:07:01 PM »

My sister does this often, but not always. She will do it when she was completely off-base or delusional about whatever it was that triggered her. But she will not do it if there was any validity (using this term loosely) to her "side."

For example, when I got back from visiting my parents for a couple of days and was accosted by an abusive text string where she told me how thoughtless and hurtful I was for having a family get together with my brother and parents and not her.

My brother wasn't there at all. And she gets together with my parents without either of us all the time. And then when I told her my brother wasn't there, she said absolutely nothing else and then contacted me a few days later as if that had never happened.

However, if she misperceives something that actually happened, as in adding a layer of cruelty to something I actually said but didn't intend to be cruel, then she will not let that go. I have a feeling this latest blowout with her could be the last. If not, I feel it will be years before we speak.

So, to summarize: if she makes a mistake, everyone is supposed to forget it. If I don't make a mistake, but she thinks I have made one, she will never get over it. The last time she did this to me, she wouldn't let me see her children for almost 2 years before I had to grovel without any reciprocating apology, and subject myself to two steady weeks of verbal abuse.

I'm not willing to do that now, and her children are grown so she can't hold that over me anymore. If I never see her again honestly I'm fine with it. If she could start to work on herself, I would be there for her, but until then, this is just too painful.
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Oh Brother

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« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2021, 08:30:43 PM »

Wow karaokequeen that's a great point.  You could be describing my uBPDs with all that.  You're exactly right - she remembers and repeatedly brings up every perceived wrong I've ever done to her (even when it wasn't a "wrong" but just a difference of opinion).  Then on the other hand she can have a massive fit of rage and communicate the most abusive things to me, and next time we see each other she's Miss Cheerful.

I'm following a NC approach with my uPBDs because of her abusive behavior when she's raging (which she doesn't acknowledge or atone for), but every once in a while we have to see each other because of parent care.
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« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2021, 09:57:21 PM »

A member on the Detaching Board has been reviewing the book

Understanding The Borderline Mother

I read it when I first landed here, and the author's comment about lying stayed with me:

Excerpt
“Some borderlines consciously distort the truth in order to prevent abandonment, maintain self-esteem, or avoid conflict.  Others may lie to evoke sympathy, attention, and concern.  From the borderline’s perspective, however lying feels essential to survival.  (Although not all borderlines consciously lie, all borderlines experience perceptional distortions.) When desperation drives behavior such as lying or stealing, they feel innocent of wrongdoing and do not feel guilt or remorse.  Apologies are rare, therefore, and borderlines may be confused  about why others expect them to feel remorse.  They believe that others would do what they did in order to survive.  Their explanation is succinct, ‘But I had to!’ Thus the borderline is unconcerned with the consequences.

And

Excerpt
Studies show that chronically intense emotions damage the part of the brain that is responsible for memory (Christianson 1992). Chronic emotional stress exposes the brain to an excess of glucocorticoids, hormones that normally help the brain cope with stress.  The hippocampus, which controls memory functioning, contains a high number of glucocorticoid receptors and in therefore susceptible to damage (Schacter 1996). “ —Ibid p. 11

It may not be "gaslighting" in the colloquial sense, but more the emotional responses from a broken brain or psyche.

The worst incidence of DV my ex exhibited was when I let our then 1 year old fall asleep before his bath. With much trepidation, I entered the kitchen with S1 on my shoulder to tell her. As I left, she slammed the door of the fridge hard enough that the contents broke on the floor and made a huge mess.

Many years later, I reminded her of that, yet she couldn't remember it (to her credit, she didn't disbelieve me and seemed distressed that she didn't remember).

Though the physical and verbal/emotional abuse may have been standard for my mother's generation, my mom was once smacking and berating me when I was 15 that I fell onto the ground in a seizure. She was an RN and it concerned her enough to take me to get evaluated. She was nicer to me for a few months.

Over 20 years later, my mom brought it up, apropos of nothing, that it might have been the only time that she "might" have abused me. I'll give her credit for remembering, but I fell onto the dirt, luckily not onto concrete or a rock.

PwBPD have brains that respond differently. It can feel deliberate and nefarious, but it's mostly just how they process the world emotionally, through a distorted world view.
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2021, 02:54:46 AM »

I can so relate to this. There were some incredibly traumatic events in my childhood that as soon as my father had calmed my mother it was everything back to normal and in fact my mother would then go high and happy. I remember feeling so angry and upset about how we had been treated or what we had witnessed but she would get angry with me for not moving on. Then accuse me of trying to ruin everything. I have had so many problems with intimacy and trust all my life because I fear people will gaslight me and I can't trust what I believe to be true. So sad.
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2021, 07:35:54 AM »

Yes, they can act like nothing happened on their part, but then pull some wrong you, or someone else did,  from the past that somehow was the "crime of the century" and pull it into the present when they want to.

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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2021, 07:58:00 AM »

I've had many exchanges where my uBPDw will say something -- accusation, statement of fact, dredge up old recollections -- something that hurts... and within seconds or minutes I can tell her, "you just said XYZ and that is not true"...

... and it's not that she'll argue about it or defend it or ignore it and move on -- she'll say, "I never said that".  Then it turns into a whole, "I never said that, you're just making it up" from her and in one swift chess move she has turned the whole thing on its head.

It's like death by a thousand cuts because it's another open wound that never gets healed. 
 

I have had so many problems with intimacy and trust all my life because I fear people will gaslight me and I can't trust what I believe to be true. So sad.

Keep a journal of these interactions.  You no doubt have enough experience with this now that you can tell which of these exchanges are going to come back later to show its ugly head.  A few years ago, as soon as something like I outlined above would happen, I would go to my computer to type it out. That does two things -- it helps me to process it so I can get it out of my head and move on with my day.  It also gives me a ready-reference so that if it is brought up again (either by her in a distorted "I never said that" way or me just needing to remember something) I have something I can read to confirm my recollection of events.
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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2021, 08:40:21 AM »

Exactly,

I think this is due to shame. If one has ever had a shame response, it feels bad, and I think if a person doesn't have a strong sense of self, they will do what they can to avoid this shame feeling. The result though is that issues don't get resolved. I call this the "dry erase board" - they just erase it, and expect others to do so too. However, everything anyone else has done is on their scoreboard.


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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2021, 09:03:16 AM »

I think this is due to shame. If one has ever had a shame response, it feels bad, and I think if a person doesn't have a strong sense of self, they will do what they can to avoid this shame feeling. The result though is that issues don't get resolved.  I call this the "dry erase board" - they just erase it, and expect others to do so too. However, everything anyone else has done is on their scoreboard.

I love that term!

Where I really have trouble with this is they feel shame for what they have just done, but they don't feel shame for the new offense they have just committed?  I'm not questioning your answer, just highlighting how wicked this whole thing is.  Particular when you find out later that they acknowledged elsewhere doing what they had denied happened.  There is another term I could use for this but I think it is frowned upon here, so I'll just reserve it for my own situation and know that it fits until something shows me otherwise. 
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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2021, 10:58:04 AM »

Couper YES to a journal. I do this now. As soon as I got back from the hospital after 48 hours with my dying father and my mother spinning me in every direction. I wrote my entire experience of the event down to preserve it. Felt so good to know I had held it and owned it.
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« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2021, 07:55:06 PM »

Yes, my brother (pwBPD) does this all the time. Through therapy, I'm learning to communicate and let him know that is not acceptable. Something like, "When you behave in a way that is upsetting, we're going to have to talk about it before we move forward." My therapist explained that in healthy relationships, there is sometimes rupture followed by repair. Often times pwBPD bipass the repair part and it's always rupture and 'act like nothing happened.' You have to teach them that is not what being in a healthy relationship with you looks like. It's been a slow process for me, but it does seem to be sending a clear message.
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