Serenity now... sanity later.

[Couper]

Several weeks ago my uBPDw started seeing a "counselor".  The first time she went she sort of lied -- told me her appointment was for "women's issues" which I think most would take as a trip to an OBGYN.  Suspecting this was not the case, I mentioned a couple of times afterward to put the medical bill in the tax folder for next year and she got real uncomfortable.  Two weeks later she just came out and told me that I needed to watch the kids so she could go to this "counselor".  

It's "counselor" in quotes because I now know who this is, looked them up, and they have a disclaimer on their site that says exactly, "****** is not a 'counseling' organization."  This person terms themselves a "prayer minister".  I have no issue with prayer, believe in it just fine, but do not agree with this person's (or my uBPDw's) belief in how it works.  That is another thing on her gripe list -- I respectfully disagree but don't interfere, yet she tells me that I have to change my beliefs on the subject or whatever bad happens is my fault.  Nothing new there so far as this disorder goes, I suppose.  

She's probably learning some good things there but, without the BPD angle being addressed, I have to think this is sweeping a lot of stuff under the rug that is going to come out bigtime later.

My other concern is she suddenly has five new self-help books, presumably from this place, and is reading all of them at once.  This is in addition to the pretty substantial collection that she has already amassed over a period of years.  They are scattered everywhere and are all marked-up.  All of the books are written to a healthy functioning reader that is living with someone that is disordered.  She has underlined things that paint the partner black when really, in this case, it's an exact description of the person reading it (almost everything she underlines are things that reinforce her own projections).

This strikes me as a recipe for disaster.  For the time being she has been more composed and not yelling at the kids, which is a plus, but I am under no illusion that this will last.  Especially when she leaves up a messenger window on the computer telling a friend that she is going to this place and, if the holy spirit doesn't bonk Couper over the head and fix me, there is no hope.  Since before I came along, her take on prayer is that she tells God what she wants... and if she doesn't get it, she hates Him.  ("Hate" being her very own word.)  Just to clarify, I pray for God's will and understanding believing that I get the former and only sometimes get the latter.  At the very least, if not now, then hopefully eventually.  I guess the difference would be that I have a level of acceptance for whatever comes down the pike and she is just looking for control.  I only add that to paint the picture.

This was partly to vent, but also, does anyone care to look into their crystal ball and hazard a guess as to what is coming months down the road when I'm still consistent-me and no bonking took place?  Does anyone here have a partner that has gone the "prayer minister" route?

All this came about because of the new church she has fallen in with.  Aside from having doctrinal issues that are 180 out of phase with my long-held beliefs (and formerly hers), she has dispensed her narrative of things at home with these people and they have taken it as red meat.  Now I'm the bad guy, she's the victim, and I'm living in a fish bowl again.  For awhile I was going just to get familiar with the place but, between those two things, I have stopped and have no intention of going back.        

  

 

[NotAHero]

I could see why you would be concerned. Most likely she will go there put a show of how changed she is now then blame you for everything. Unfortunately I don’t see how you can change the outcome. BPDs are like actors except in real life, it’s a play she wrote and she will see it to the end.

 Just uphold your boundaries and play along. I don’t know what else you can do.

[Couper]

I could see why you would be concerned. Most likely she will go there put a show of how changed she is now then blame you for everything. Unfortunately I don’t see how you can change the outcome. BPDs are like actors except in real life, it’s a play she wrote and she will see it to the end.

 Just uphold your boundaries and play along. I don’t know what else you can do.

Thanks NotAHero.  I don't expect to be able to change anything.  I guess what I was wondering is -- am I on the right track thinking this is essentially like bottling things up that are eventually going to explode in a magnificent way when she doesn't get the outcome she wants?

I suppose I already know the answer, but was thinking maybe somebody else had been thorough something similar and could give me a heads-up about what to expect.

[Manic Miner]

Churches and religions can be a nasty drug for people with disorders, as they can take it so seriously and devotedly, esp. if they find likeminded individuals there, as they often do. And then mask their true self and vulnerabilities, pumping some fragile ego that exists only with that group of people.

On a lighter note, she can be at peace there so maybe it could be soothing for her. But if you are not playing that game, yeah it could provoke anger as "you just dont understand".

[Couper]

Churches and religions can be a nasty drug for people with disorders, as they can take it so seriously and devotedly, esp. if they find likeminded individuals there, as they often do. And then mask their true self and vulnerabilities, pumping some fragile ego that exists only with that group of people.

On a lighter note, she can be at peace there so maybe it could be soothing for her. But if you are not playing that game, yeah it could provoke anger as "you just dont understand".

I forget who it was, but there was a survivor of a POW camp that said there were two basic types -- the ones that tried to put one foot in front of the other and get through each day without the promise of any reward, and the ones that swung from one vine to the next believing, "We'll be out by Thanksgiving.  We'll be out by Christmas." and each time some benchmark passed without their release, it got harder to retain that faith until the next one.  The former tended to survive and the latter did not.

I see the group that my uBPDw has gravitated toward as being the latter.  Rather than ask for wisdom and put in the work, the new group says pray hard enough and you're entitled to a miracle.  Every week revival is coming, a miracle is coming, someone is going to wave a magic wand and make all your troubles go away.  It doesn't matter that this movement can't point to anything in the last 150 years happening like that.  Even though it didn't happen for all the generations before, now it's going to happen for this one.

A few weeks ago I Googled something like, "do people with mental health issues gravitate toward certain denominations" and apparently it has been somewhat studied and they do and they tend to go where my uBPDw has gone.  I know she has at least one expectation (the bonking I mentioned) and probably several more.  If something derails that, or I did something like serve her divorce papers, I could envision a meltdown of epic proportions that maybe wouldn't have been quite so bad had she not gone down this road.   

[ForeverDad]

I knew an old couple when I lived in Brooklyn NYC in the 1970's-1980's.  Both were concentration camp survivors, for their religion.  Soon after their marriage they were separated for 9 years, he to Dachau and Mauthausen, her to Ravensbrück, wearing purple triangles.  They did not expect miracles but trusted in their faith and were rewarded.  They were the nicest, sanest, most loving couple, always with smiles on their faces.

Me?  I recall one visit of our preschooler with his pediatrician.  The doctor saw the discord and recommended to provide names and numbers of some local counselors to my then-spouse.

All this God will heal me and God told me is troubling to me.  I recall when our pediatrician recommended my then-spouse see a counselor.  It was our final few months before separation, she responded, "I have the Bible!"  So I can empathize with your dilemma.

[Couper]

I knew an old couple when I lived in Brooklyn NYC in the 1970's-1980's.  Both were concentration camp survivors, for their religion.  Soon after their marriage they were separated for 9 years, he to Dachau and Mauthausen, her to Ravensbrück, wearing purple triangles.  They did not expect miracles but trusted in their faith and were rewarded.  They were the nicest, sanest, most loving couple, always with smiles on their faces.

Me?  I recall one visit of our preschooler with his pediatrician.  The doctor saw the discord and recommended to provide names and numbers of some local counselors to my then-spouse.

Right on, right on.

I'd also like to add that your ability to recall your prior posts is rather remarkable.

[ForeverDad]

I've archived my old posts... and I also make good use of the Search Threads function online for keywords on the menu bar above which goes back as far as 2013.

On my computer programmer resume I list my obsession with details and detective skills as both a positive and a negative.  With a bad heart and employers wanting to select youth over experience, I've resigned myself to being more or less retired.

[Couper]

Ah, a programmer.  I am not surprised!

If retirement means it gives you the time to help here, I am very grateful for that.  You have been very generous to share your experiences.

[Woolspinner2000]

I have a little sticky note on my computer desk that I see when I work that says:

Hope in God for who He is, not for what He will do for you.

Wools

[Notwendy]

In my ACA ( includes dysfunction) group where we examine the messages we learned as kids, ( to gain new and better ones) there's discussion on religion. While the idea of God is abstract, we humans have a relationship with God on our human level. If someone has disordered relationships, then it makes sense they can have a disordered relationship with God. Also our God concept matures as we do. We can only perceive God through our own development. So for some people who grew up with disordered parents, their God concept might be influenced by that, and so they need to work on a more personal one for them.

With BPD, there's shame, denial and projection. My guess is that this group provides some validation for your wife and also she projects her views on to you. It would be difficult for her to consider she might have issues. If you consider the Karpman triangle, I think pwBPD tend to take victim perspective. In this situation - the religious group and God are the rescuers, and you, the persecutor.

I am also in favor of religion and prayer, but for any personal change to happen, we need to be able to perceive our own shortcomings and mistakes, not from a position of shame or being flawed, but that we are humans trying to do better, and ask God for help with this. I don't see how this can happen if someone has so much internal shame that they are unable to do this.

The group you mention seems to present a "black and white" view of religion but much about spirituality is not  defined. There's an unknown and a mystery to that and uncertainty is scary. I also think pwBPD look at external things to manage their internal feelings. If these don't work, they can lose interest. I think at this point, she's going to be involved in what she chooses so there's not much you can do to change that. If you oppose it, it may just add fuel to the issues.

[Couper]

With BPD, there's shame, denial and projection. My guess is that this group provides some validation for your wife and also she projects her views on to you. It would be difficult for her to consider she might have issues. If you consider the Karpman triangle, I think pwBPD tend to take victim perspective. In this situation - the religious group and God are the rescuers, and you, the persecutor.

This is exactly correct.  I would term them gullible or, at the very least, almost completely lacking in skepticism.  Many of them, including uBPDw, fell head over heels for a well-known absurd conspiracy theory that peaked in 2020 and then vanished last year yet still chase that carrot.
   

I am also in favor of religion and prayer, but for any personal change to happen, we need to be able to perceive our own shortcomings and mistakes, not from a position of shame or being flawed, but that we are humans trying to do better, and ask God for help with this. I don't see how this can happen if someone has so much internal shame that they are unable to do this.

This is exactly correct, too.  She only knows how to point fingers and blame.  Everyone else is supposed to have the introspection that she does not.  Worse yet, the people aiding her may perceive her as seeking personal change, and now they are reinforcing her narrative without knowing the lies they are being told.  She has always gravitated to those that take whatever she says at face value and shuns anyone that might question her the least little bit.

The group you mention seems to present a "black and white" view of religion but much about spirituality is not  defined. There's an unknown and a mystery to that and uncertainty is scary. I also think pwBPD look at external things to manage their internal feelings. If these don't work, they can lose interest. I think at this point, she's going to be involved in what she chooses so there's not much you can do to change that. If you oppose it, it may just add fuel to the issues.

Let me say I have no intention of trying to change anything about what she's doing, nor air my skepticism of it.  I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around what is potentially coming so I can maybe utilize it as a positive rather than a negative.

I've been thinking about this a lot today and wondering what is going to be the outcome when for weeks she has been pouring coal on the fire and yet I have still not been hit by a bolt of lightning. 

1. I doubt she'll lose interest.  She has a new audience.  In the past she would just get angry and blame God, but not lose interest like she took off in search of something new.

2. This time is different because of the influence from the outside.  As a group, they already sort of view themselves as having the ability to force change (whereas I'm a "will"-type person).  From studying them, I think what is going to happen is they are not going to admit defeat.  I think they are going to blame just as she would blame when she was working alone.  The blame is going to be on me despite the fact that I'm not at all informed by them of their intent.  They can't say God failed, they can't say they failed because they have done everything right -- I think they're going to tell her that I'm godless because I didn't respond to all of their unspoken efforts and magic pixie dust.  Perhaps they will tell her that she no longer has any duty to me, which I think would tickle her ears... and perhaps mine.

So, that leaves me wondering (and maybe hoping).  After they try everything and it has failed, I'm wondering if they are going to encourage her to leave.  In one sense, I might welcome that -- unless they screw with my kids.  If they tell her to go because I'm hopeless and I time it right, that might actually prevent her from going to war.  Maybe I will be the thing in which she loses interest because they will continue to nurture her distorted view of the world whereas I do not.  Maybe wishful thinking.  She'll need a support network anyway, so maybe it's not all bad.  My name is already dirt whether I stay or leave.

Apologies for any rambling thoughts.  It kind of evolved as I went along.

   

[Selfishsally]

So, I kinda had this happen to me when I left. He pretty quickly went to a pastor who was an acquaintance from church. I don't even know what the whole story is that he fed to them, just something about how it was so unlike like me.
So the pastor and his wife pushed pretty hard to meet with me. That was good and bad. Obviously, I was at fault for being a doormat but they did come to the decision that we needed to be seperated. It was still hyperspirtual and they didn't want me to put much importance on the need for therapy. I did also stop communication with this pastor because he was still a big sympathizer with my H. I think its good he has some people around him, I have already said what I needed to say to them and I believe they will never "get it".

What you are describing sounds frustrating. I don't know how you can keep a straight mind in the midst of it.  I think you are being wise to just let her do what she wants to do with it and let it play out as long as everybody is safe. And it sounds like you are doing a great job holding on to the truth. So I would just encourage you to keep that calmness as you navigate this.

[Couper]

So, I kinda had this happen to me when I left. He pretty quickly went to a pastor who was an acquaintance from church. I don't even know what the whole story is that he fed to them, just something about how it was so unlike like me.
So the pastor and his wife pushed pretty hard to meet with me. That was good and bad. Obviously, I was at fault for being a doormat but they did come to the decision that we needed to be seperated. It was still hyperspirtual and they didn't want me to put much importance on the need for therapy. I did also stop communication with this pastor because he was still a big sympathizer with my H. I think its good he has some people around him, I have already said what I needed to say to them and I believe they will never "get it".

Thanks for sharing that with me.  Lots of parallels here and I think you offer a bit of a crystal ball.  I went through some of your past posts and what I have played out in my head seems to have already been a reality in your life.  My gut tells me that they are going to come to me directly at some point just as they did with you.  I have debated saying something like, "Have you ever considered there is a personality disorder involved here and that she is playing you?", but as was mentioned with the triangle stuff above, I suspect if I did that they are going to turn around and tell her what I said, which would be the same as me telling her directly that she has a personality disorder, which we also know is a big no-no.  On top of that, even when people do know, nobody wants to admit that they have been played.  She has already roped-in these people.  They are not neutral and I cannot trust them to hold anything in confidence.  I don't even think they have a legal obligation to in their capacity.  They are just ratchet-jawed busybodies, not professionals.

What you are describing sounds frustrating. I don't know how you can keep a straight mind in the midst of it.  I think you are being wise to just let her do what she wants to do with it and let it play out as long as everybody is safe. And it sounds like you are doing a great job holding on to the truth. So I would just encourage you to keep that calmness as you navigate this.

Lots of practice.  Years of experience knowing that regardless of what she tells me, she's just going to do what she wants anyway.  I've been stabbed in he back so many times that there isn't room for another knife.  Since being duped on that whole marriage counseling thing, I simply refuse to play in her sandbox anymore.

Thank you for the encouragement.  I've read where you are struggling with the overtures being made to you.  I'm pretty cynical about my whole situation at this point and I don't want that to rub off on you if there is hope, but I would encourage you to inventory all these past instances of being brought roses and how often it equaled a genuine change of heart.  I have found the best way to stay grounded is not to look at the immediate moment, but the big picture.   

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi again, Couper,

My gut tells me that they are going to come to me directly at some point just as they did with you.

I was afraid of this happening at our home church after I left DH. I played the scenario out in my mind more than once. In the end it never happened, largely because they already knew who DH was. All the while my guard was up whenever I saw someone from there, because I expected to be asked questions. I was pleasantly surprised to actually be supported by the elders at our church. It doesn't sound at all like what is happening in your situation, and I'm sorry. So often the church leaders assume without knowing what is really going on.

I did determine that if I was asked to speak with the church leaders, I would invite my T to come along so that I wouldn't be alone. Those who have walked with me in my journey to healing are my best advocates, and they know the other side of the story. Is there anyone who could go with you, or a T perhaps if you are/get established with one?

Are you familiar with JADE and BIFF? If someone has already posted the info for you, I apologize for having repeated it. The tools we learn here at BPDfamily apply not only to our marriage/romantic relationships, but they also give us valuable tools to use in the workplace, church, friendships, or wherever we find a need to communicate.

Wools

[Selfishsally]

  They are just ratchet-jawed busybodies, not professionals.

The way you phrased this literally made me .

The advice you gave me is welcomed and don't worry I am plenty cynical as well. Thank you.

[alterK]

Sounds like a perfect case of triangulation! It has the special advantage of bringing God into it, as your W can imagine Him on her side, and then her warm feelings of acceptance confirm that she's right. As far as the humans in her church go, it sounds like they have from the very beginning put themselves forward as rescuers. By now they have doubtless heard so much about how evil you are and how long-suffering your W has been, and are so invested in their rescuer role that they will never be able to be objective when you try to tell them your side.

It is tough because you get a bad rep that can interfere with your other relationships. I've had experience with that with my ex (not my present W--I confess to being a repeat offender when it comes to marrying into BPD). Sadly, there's little you can do about it, though I've found that time sometimes heals these problems. People do get tired of hearing a pwBPD's complaints. This is very likely an "Accept the things I cannot change" situation.

[Cat Familiar]

As far as the humans in her church go, it sounds like they have from the very beginning put themselves forward as rescuers. By now they have doubtless heard so much about how evil you are and how long-suffering your W has been, and are so invested in their rescuer role that they will never be able to be objective when you try to tell them your side.

It is tough because you get a bad rep that can interfere with your other relationships. I've had experience with that with my ex (not my present W--I confess to being a repeat offender when it comes to marrying into BPD). Sadly, there's little you can do about it, though I've found that time sometimes heals these problems. People do get tired of hearing a pwBPD's complaints. This is very likely an "Accept the things I cannot change" situation.

Very astute advice from alterK.

I love the “repeat offender” remark about being twice married to a pwBPD—Me too! I’m stealing that!   

Having one's reputation besmirched is an unfortunately common occurrence with a disgruntled BPD partner.

I had a funny experience when getting to know a woman in a therapy group who suddenly realized who I was, based upon what she’d heard from my ex- husband. She previously had a positive impression about me based upon some hours spent together. When she put two and two together and realized that I was this horrible person that her coworker friend and my ex had talked about, her face darkened. Then, she considered her own interaction with me and said, “I’m going to have to rethink what I’ve heard.”

Some weeks later, when my ex had broken up with her friend, she told me that he was trash talking her too, just like he had done with me.

[Couper]

Are you familiar with JADE and BIFF? If someone has already posted the info for you, I apologize for having repeated it. The tools we learn here at BPDfamily apply not only to our marriage/romantic relationships, but they also give us valuable tools to use in the workplace, church, friendships, or wherever we find a need to communicate.

Yes and yes and no need to apologize because maybe it will be new to someone else reading along.

Excellent tools and I was already unknowingly using them before coming here both at home and in business.  Aside from not getting drug into the mud verbally with people, I have long been especially cautious about pointless battles in electronic format.  I don't have the time for it and I don't want to hand anybody something they can use to beat me over the head with later.

[Couper]

Sounds like a perfect case of triangulation! It has the special advantage of bringing God into it, as your W can imagine Him on her side, and then her warm feelings of acceptance confirm that she's right. As far as the humans in her church go, it sounds like they have from the very beginning put themselves forward as rescuers. By now they have doubtless heard so much about how evil you are and how long-suffering your W has been, and are so invested in their rescuer role that they will never be able to be objective when you try to tell them your side.

It is tough because you get a bad rep that can interfere with your other relationships. I've had experience with that with my ex (not my present W--I confess to being a repeat offender when it comes to marrying into BPD). Sadly, there's little you can do about it, though I've found that time sometimes heals these problems. People do get tired of hearing a pwBPD's complaints. This is very likely an "Accept the things I cannot change" situation.

Off-site I have been discussing one of the self-help books I mentioned in the beginning.  This morning I was speed-reading through it trying to give it a fair assessment and reading all the things she has underlined.  A detailed rundown would be long to post, but I will say I feel this particular book is absolutely misprescribed.  The context is I'm a "perpetrator" and she is a regular-functioning person that's purely the victim of an abusive partner (something that has always tickled her ears).  At the end of the book this is the last thing she underlined:

"An emotionally battered woman's hysterical efforts to be heard are often misdiagnosed as bipolar illness, borderline personality disorder, or worse."

I'll let those of you at home dissect the implications of that statement.  Interesting what you mentioned above -- in my offline conversation I referred to this book acting as another form of triangulation...

 

[Couper]

Having one's reputation besmirched is an unfortunately common occurrence with a disgruntled BPD partner.

I had a funny experience when getting to know a woman in a therapy group who suddenly realized who I was, based upon what she’d heard from my ex- husband. She previously had a positive impression about me based upon some hours spent together. When she put two and two together and realized that I was this horrible person that her coworker friend and my ex had talked about, her face darkened. Then, she considered her own interaction with me and said, “I’m going to have to rethink what I’ve heard.”

Some weeks later, when my ex had broken up with her friend, she told me that he was trash talking her too, just like he had done with me.

Hi Cat!

It's that old bittersweet thing about how justice seldom comes swiftly.

I've mentioned this one before but it fits here (names changed, of course):

My D(6 at the time) was talking about some kid in her class and I asked uBPDw who his parents were: “Penelope and, um, I can’t remember his name…. but he’s an awful person”.  I asked her how she’d know that if she doesn’t even know his name, “Because Penelope told me” and when I replied that getting wrapped up in gossip about someone whose name you don’t even know isn’t the same as knowing the truth I could tell it caught her off-guard.  No lesson was learned, of course, but for that moment she knew what I meant.

[Notwendy]

A self help book can't be used for self help unless someone is willing to look at themselves. If not, it sounds like it becomes a justification for blaming someone else. If what someone perceives is filtered through victim thinking, then everyone else is either a rescuer or a persecutor and nothing is their fault.

I recall when growing up my BPD mother read the latest self help books and was quoting them in reference to someone else. "They are doing the _____" whatever what was in the books. Or deciding what is going on with someone else according to the book. I was too young at the time to be aware of how she was perceiving them, but I recall these books from the quotes, even though I didn't read them.

At one point, BPD mother called up people to tell them I was emotionally unstable due to "hormonal changes". I am the right age to consider these changes but the emotionally unstable was her idea. She's said so many untrue things about me to her relatives that I am embarrassed when I am around them as a wonder what they must be thinking. I also think it's sad that they would even consider believing her. Unless it's a relationship I want to attempt to preserve, I just don't bother saying anything. It would put them in a "her word" or "my word" choice and so I don't even want to get into that.

If you are concerned she may damage your ability to earn a livelihood or might be in legal harm from abuse accusations, I would consult a lawyer.

[Couper]

A self help book can't be used for self help unless someone is willing to look at themselves. If not, it sounds like it becomes a justification for blaming someone else. If what someone perceives is filtered through victim thinking, then everyone else is either a rescuer or a persecutor and nothing is their fault.

That's exactly what I'm seeing here.  The book does have some introspective stuff about only being able to help yourself, but I'd say it's only about 15% of the content and the other 85% is very black-and-white persecutor / victim content and the reader is never regarded as having been the cause of their own troubles.

This stuff kind of irks me in that this "prayer minister" has to have a disclaimer on her website that she isn't a licensed counselor but is apparently acting in this function.  This book is essentially a prescription.  One can imagine how this would go down if it involved prescribing medicine.  Maybe in a court setting she wouldn't get any store credit for this kind of "counseling" since the very person doing it has stated that they aren't one.

At one point, BPD mother called up people to tell them I was emotionally unstable due to "hormonal changes". I am the right age to consider these changes but the emotionally unstable was her idea. She's said so many untrue things about me to her relatives that I am embarrassed when I am around them as a wonder what they must be thinking. I also think it's sad that they would even consider believing her. Unless it's a relationship I want to attempt to preserve, I just don't bother saying anything. It would put them in a "her word" or "my word" choice and so I don't even want to get into that.

It pains me greatly to read this and you have my sympathy.  It is very isolating, isn't it?  It's like living in a fish bowl.

If you are concerned she may damage your ability to earn a livelihood or might be in legal harm from abuse accusations, I would consult a lawyer.

I am.  I have an appointment for Thursday.  This is a topic of discussion I had not considered and just now added it to my list.  That's why these exchanges are so essential.  Please keep the ideas coming.

[alterK]

Thanks for the kind words and the good story, Cat.

Notwendy, you put it very well about self-help books, especially in this category. All the standard books I have read about dealing with a pwBPD have two parts, the first about what is going on inside the other person, the rest about learning better ways of dealing with them.

AND, if we are trying to be honest with ourselves, especially if we have been in the relationship(s?) for a long time, part of what we learn is about how we have been facilitating, aiding and abetting. Indeed, I suspect the most common responses of a person living/dealing with a pwBPD are things that make the situation worse. Understandable, forgivable, and there are many reasons, though it may be difficult to undo. A lot of the posts I read on this forum are about people's struggles to understand years of making mistakes and their efforts to learn how to do better.

[Couper]

People do get tired of hearing a pwBPD's complaints.

Thinking more on this, a recent exchange I have relayed before:

The other night the kids were talking with their mother about a lesson from a show about conmen taking advantage and warning about people that suddenly want to be your friend where before they were not and she shot back to them, "What you need to worry about are people that were your friends that suddenly aren't anymore... and you don't know why".  That made my heart sink.  Their wheels were turning but I could tell it went over their heads.

[Selfishsally]

Couper,
 Glad you are seeing a lawyer and I hope you tell that lawyer everything.

Just a side note for you, an emotionally battered women would never let their partner see that she had those books and would especially be careful with things she wrote or circled in books like that.

[Couper]

Just a side note for you, an emotionally battered women would never let their partner see that she had those books and would especially be careful with things she wrote or circled in books like that.

These books are just scattered all over the place willy nilly where I can sit and look at them.  I never thought about it like that.  What does it mean that I keep all of my notes locked up like Fort Knox?

Humor me, I just feel the need to process as I'm looking through my own stuff today. We moved to our current place in an area that was entirely new to us almost six years ago (that was a whole battle in itself).  My D(then 4) had a birthday coming up after we had been here for eight months.  Leading up to it I kept giving gentle reminders that we needed to get invitations sent out so people had time to put it on their calendars.  Being very careful not to nag, but remind enough that there was no excuse for procrastination.  At that point we were integrated into the homeschool group here (among other groups) and our kids went to lots of other kid's birthday parties.  They were always coming back talking about their friends.  We had been here about eight months.

Either one or two days before the date of her party, I was downstairs finishing up my breakfast, both kids there having a good time, and uBPDw came down crying her eyes out in a hysterical fit: "Nobody is coming to her birthday.  My little girl's day is ruined.  I don't know what to do." and at first I'm incredulous.  Our kids get taken to everyone else's stuff and nobody can come ours?  What the hell?  So I said, "I don't understand, what kind of excuses are they giving?  Did we conflict with some other event?"

"It's because they all hate me and they don't want to come."

That's when an alarm bell went off and I said, "How many people did you send invitations to?"

She looked at me cold and said, "I didn't invite anybody."

I wish people could see the horrible things that have gone on here so when they're told by her that she "longs for a husband that would cherish her", just like she underlined in that book, that maybe they would stop and think just for a second that maybe there is a reason behind it other than it being "her husband's wickedness rubbing off on her".   

 

[Selfishsally]

These books are just scattered all over the place willy nilly where I can sit and look at them.  I never thought about it like that.  What does it mean that I keep all of my notes locked up like Fort Knox?

 

Exactly! I hope that there are no doubts in your mind about what is going on.

[Couper]

Exactly! I hope that there are no doubts in your mind about what is going on.

Generally I'm okay but I do have moments of occasional doubt when I'm trying to be objective about if I have missed something on my part.  Do you think this extends further -- that they are being left out because she wants these notes to be found? 

[Selfishsally]

Generally I'm okay but I do have moments of occasional doubt when I'm trying to be objective about if I have missed something on my part.  Do you think this extends further -- that they are being left out because she wants these notes to be found? 

I don't know if we can determine another person's intention...However, I assume she is an intelligent woman and I think you mentioned somewhere that she mentioned the Holy Spirit needed to "bonk" some sense into you so it would not be surprising if she is trying to use that as a tool to "convict" you.