Just messed up-please help

[Tuxedo Cat]

I just tried to have a chat with my uBPD husband.  We are still separated but in recent weeks it had been getting better and I called him to talk and he was receptive.
He has done some damaging stuff in the relationship and I’ve been mulling over that lately and trying to figure out what I want.  With that said, I can’t say I want a divorce.  He hasn’t quite gotten to that conclusion either.  I’ve *tried* to do reading, learning, introspection.  I’ve learned a lot about myself and that I do JADE and all that codependence good stuff.
Well tonight in our talk I messed up so badly.  He was telling me how he had something go wrong lately with his car but didn’t fall apart with it and was able to cope.  I responded with yes, that’s how it usually goes.  He asked what I meant and I said most times the depression lifts and then he’s able to cope and turn things around.  Then I used the word “cycle”.  Oh boy, was that a trigger.  I’ve reduced him to a cycle, I’m calling him a crazy f*ck up like I always have.  Of course I’ve never called him that and fall right into that JADEing.  I was trying hard to SET because some harsh words were coming from him.  I did apologize.  He said I was doing that only for my own benefit.  Maybe there’s some truth in that.
I think I also messed it all up because in my desperate attempt to show him I was listening, I was trying so hard to use SET, the “T” came out as “the truth is that I am happy that you’re doing better”.  Ugh.  Then that became me telling him that what he was feeling wasn’t real.  Well, you know what? He’s right, I think. 
Now he won’t accept my apologies or any acknowledgment that I made about how what I said and did was wrong.  I feel terrible.  Is there any way to right this?
I was trying so hard to do better with my communication/empathy. I feel like a gigantic failure right now.

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[AlwaysMean]

This event may feel like a failure but I wouldn't say it was failure.

Sound like you are doing a great job at problem solving, picking up new methods and attempting to apply them.

One thing I have learned over the past few months is keep trying until you get the method right. It takes practice. Here you are taking another step which is documenting the triggers. Now that you have identified a trigger. What is another way we reword the statement that doesn't sound like a trigger?

[alterK]

You are not a failure. Everyone has trouble learning new and different ways of communication, and everyone, especially at the early stages, falls back into the old ways when they're stressed. Your pwBPD is experienced at pushing your buttons, and you are experienced at responding in the standard (meaning the wrong) way.
Just because you know what you should do, doesn't mean you can instantly do it. Better communication is a skill, and just like playing a musical instrument or downhill skiing, it takes practice. What do you do the first time you try to get up on skis? You fall down! Maybe you fall the first twenty times you get up--but each time you stay up a little longer.
The easiest response to make to a threatening communication is an emotional one. It's hard to control your instant emotion and force yourself to take the time necessary to find a rational response. That time could be anything from a few seconds to days.
Please be more forgiving of yourself. Keep the forum informed about your progress...and problems...!

[Tuxedo Cat]

Thanks so much for your responses. I think if I could go back in time, I’d phrase it “that makes sense.  I’ve heard that sometimes people who experience deep depression, once the depression lifts, realize that they’ve learned new skills at coping.  I’m so happy you’ve come out of yours with some new resiliency”. That’s what I meant in the first place. However, one thing I’ve learned too is that me trying to continue to clarify what I meant (which he calls ‘gaslighting’) is just not going to work.  I wonder how to respond if he brings it up again?

He’s still very angry at me, comparing me to his deceased mother, who was not a very good mother at all and pretty abusive. He had a very bad day today, and posted something vague on social media that alarmed me.  I know he had to know I’d see it and be alarmed, because he used a specific phrase that he used last night in our talk last night. One that I would definitely pick up on. When I was able to talk to him (he wouldn’t take my calls for a while), he kind of connected me to the bad stuff that happened, like somehow I’m the cause, bringing on a cluster of bad luck or something. Anyway, he says now that we aren’t good together and he doesn’t want to see or talk to me for a while.  A few hours later he appears at the house.  He doesn’t Initiate any talk but there he is loudly talking on the phone trying to resolve a problem having to do with his bad day.  I checked up on him just to see what was going on and to offer some help. Not much came of it.

[Tuxedo Cat]

Another thing he says is that I “shouldn’t have try so hard to not make him feel awful about himself”.  This is his response when I tell him that I’ve been working really hard at learning how to communicate better.  I tell him it’s hard, but I’m trying to break habits, listen more, and respond to him in a more constructive way. He says it shouldn’t be that hard.
In my mind, besides feeling hopeless, I also feel resentment. Because he’s not doing one thing nor has he ever worked hard at communicating better with me! Much less addressing any of the big damaging events that have happened through his rages/disassociation. They don’t happen very often, but they have happened pretty reliably every 4-5 years.  Thus the “cycle”and my phrasing of it as such. My attempt to look at these events objectively.
He is not a bad person, but I know he feels bad much of the time.  I feel like the fact that I am around is a reminder that all that he deals with.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Tuxedo cat,

I hate those types of interactions when you fall over yourself. They stink. You try so hard and it falls apart. As the others said, you did improve, and you learned things. No shame in that.

I have a link for you that I think would be helpful:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0

The topic is BIFF: Brief, informative, factual, and friendly. The link talks about emails, but it also applies to conversations.

I think if I could go back in time, I’d phrase it “that makes sense.  I’ve heard that sometimes people who experience deep depression, once the depression lifts, realize that they’ve learned new skills at coping.  I’m so happy you’ve come out of yours with some new resiliency”. That’s what I meant in the first place. However, one thing I’ve learned too is that me trying to continue to clarify what I meant (which he calls ‘gaslighting’) is just not going to work.  I wonder how to respond if he brings it up again?

To keep it BIFF, I would just say what I highlighted above and leave the rest go. The less opportunity you give for emotional interaction, the less opportunity for him to respond. Clarifying isn't gaslighting, and clarifying won't help the interaction. If he asks for clarification, you don't have to take the hook. Just rinse and repeat: "that makes sense; thanks for telling me."

Like you, I felt such a strong need to defend and explain because I thought it would make it better (don't JADE which you are also learning). It didn't. With time I learned to keep it BIFF and then to walk away. For you with phone calls, watch the clock and keep the time short, real short, because you know the longer you talk, the more opportunity there is for conflict to pop up.

Keep up the good but hard work!

 
Wools

[alterK]

I go along with Woolspinner. A BIFF response can sometimes work, but like all these things we are talking about, it takes practice. Trying to pull a BPD person out of an emotional tailspin can be very difficult, and if BIFF doesn't work the best thing you can do is walk away. Don't kick yourself if you get it wrong at first.

Judging by my experience with my uBPD wife, what I've read in the books and here, BPD people actually prefer these dysfunctional, unhappy ways of communicating because they are accustomed to them. Change is a threat, and even though it may not appear that way, fear is what underlies a huge percent of their interactions. If you change, that makes them feel out of control. They will steer a conversation into an old, bad pattern, confident that you'll respond as expected, and unhappy as they may be, they are still in control. But as you start to learn new skills you may gradually be able to make them feel safer talking with you in a more reasonable way.

A pwBPD, when they are desperate, may use themselves as a hostage. That can be very hard to deal with. People involved with alcoholics can have the same problem. Leave them alone, because that is the only way they may improve, or let them hit bottom, knowing that disaster is always possible.

[Tuxedo Cat]

Wow, thanks so much.  With a little time I have felt better about myself and given myself some grace.  I agree that fear is a big part of the interactions and when I said “cycle” that fear response kicked in and he felt he needed to fight back strongly. It’s been a weird couple of days with him mad and saying wants nothing to do with me but somehow he’s been around a lot.
So, today I applied some of the learning and I think it helped.  He actually shared something that was difficult.  I responded with some empathy, “that must have hurt so much”. Yay, good.  But then I fell into that fixing mode and failed to keep the focus on his feelings.  Ugh. But the conversation thankfully continued and  it was through text and I had some space for thought and reflection before my responses to his communications, which were prefaced with some accusations but also full of hurt. I became more mindful and reminded myself to speak to his inner child. I bettered my communication and it helped.

[Woolspinner2000]

Tuxedo Cat,

Just one thing to say: 

Well done!
Wools