Physical violence statistics

[15years]

Hi!

I'm usually writing on the bettering board and has posted these statistics there and gotten good replies. The reason I now post it here also is I'm curious if people on this part of this website has experienced physical violence and if so I want to hear about your experience.

How did it start, how did it evolve over time, how often, was it justified, and so on.

My wife is undiagnosed and we have two boys aged 2 and 5. We are in our early 30s and we've been a couple for 15 years and married for 7.

In my case, the physical violence started over one year ago when I confessed secrets she viewed as infidelity (personally I think it was a betrayal and something I'm ashamed of, but not infidelity). Before that there was some mild violence such as pushing me on a few occasions, and I think looking back that it was slowly building up to this either way, but I definitely speed things up and caused her great distress.

Below listed the number of days per month my wife has been physically violent towards me.
2021
March: 5
April: 21
May: 2
June: 11
July: 11
August: 6
September: 11
October: 13
November: 12
December: 8
2022
January: 4
february: 3
March so far (as of 8.3): 4

Her ways of expressing violence has been kicking, hitting, scratching, pinching, pulling my hair, spitting and throwing water at me, throwing and hitting me with objects (NOT sharp objects). Lately she more often then before uses violence that doesn't leave visible marks but still has the maximal release. She has stopped scratching me and pinching has decreased because those two leave marks.

Although she often apologizes, I also have to apologize and I am viewed as the worse party in the events. In her opinion I directly and indirectly cause her to do this. Gender discussions is a big part of this. We actually have an ongoing debate about my choice to sometimes run or lock myself in the bathroom to avoid or stop her attack. She thinks this is utterly wrong of me, I shouldn't leave her side and I should accept that I've messed up and take it as a man.

Ironically she is totally against violence, and routinely calls me a violent person. We've engaged in some questionable sexual activities (I bet many would call them normal) in the past and she blames me for this and calls me a rapist and abuser. Nothing she does can compete with what I've done to her.

She talks a lot about how she has evolved as a woman and that it couldn't have happened if she wouldn't have started standing up for herself by using violence. She says I have dominated and controlled her which is totally untrue but she makes me believe it.

She sees the potential in me to "become the man I'm meant to be" and she loves me deeply. She has told me she will never stop using violence until I start to take full responsibility of the past and the present.

Feel free to ask questions and share anything about your own experience.

[lietome]

I do not remember the exact days but can relate several episodes. One day I woke up by being kicked. Over night she unlocked my phone and found that 5 years ago I looked at the profile of my ex. It was enough for her to start kicking me. I’m much more physically stronger and I was able to stop her. Even after that I’m still the worst and the fact I looked at the profile of my ex BEFORE we were in a relationship is enough for her to start being violent.
She also threw objects to me. And one time cutted me with a battle knife. She filled 5 false police reports and I was arrested a few times. One day cops violated my house and removed me from my bed while I was sleeping. It was also a false report. You cannot be violent while you sleep.

[Notwendy]

We actually have an ongoing debate about my choice to sometimes run or lock myself in the bathroom to avoid or stop her attack. She thinks this is utterly wrong of me, I shouldn't leave her side and I should accept that I've messed up and take it as a man.

I think it's good that you are posting here for more perspectives. I will add that one doesn't have to have experienced violence to see the twisted thinking in this "debate" - this is not debatable. If you were walking down the street and saw a person physically harming another person, you would call the police. This is wrong, not appropriate in any scenario. It's also illegal.

Here is my concern if you were to give in to this request and appease her. Basically, she wants you to sit there and take it. First, she'd likely hurt you but eventually your own self defense instincts will kick in when you are in enough pain and truly concerned for your bodily harm and you will push her away or something like that. Then she will have a "mark" and you will be arrested for domestic abuse and battery.

She's aware enough of the consequences of her actions by being careful to not leave a mark. I don't think you would deliberately cause her harm however, when we ourselves are being physically attacked, we instinctually defend ourselves. One mark on her and you will be arrested. And our culture is biased when it comes to physical abuse with men and women, and you will be assumed to be the perpetrator. If your wife is cognizant enough during her rages to not leave a mark, she knows this too and may also be setting you up.

I don't know where you have bought into her twisted thinking about what a man should act like. From the female perspective, I don't think it's OK for anyone, male or female to sit there and allow someone to harm them. I don't know what ideas she has about being female entitling her to harm someone else, male or female. Decent human beings don't cause physical harm to others, except in self defense. Toddlers smack other toddlers because they don't know any better. They quickly get put in time out to learn that this isn't acceptable. If an older child does that, they are considered to be misbehaving. If an adult does this, they are a criminal.

I read where another poster suggested looking at her cycles. This is not an excuse for physical battery. As a woman who knows what this is like, and knows other women, I will attest we can be more irritable at these times however, we don't go around hitting other people. That is crossing a line and is unacceptable.

Physical abuse is not ubiquitous for all pwBPD. My own BPD mother destroyed property, verbally and emotionally abuses people, lies, and does other unacceptable things, but stops at physical abuse. While all abuse is damaging, physical abuse crosses a line into dangerous and criminal behavior. Abuse doesn't stop on it's own, and it isn't limited to males doing it to females. My mother is the abuser in the family.

I am also concerned that you have children in this situation. Exposing children to this kind of violence might result in them being removed from the home and if you were framed as the perpetrator, taken away from you and left with your violent wife. They are also sons and so will be subjected to her ideas about men. One day, these boys will be men as well and when she's angry at them, she will say the same thing to them as she does to you: "be a man and take it" and they will- from her, and from other women.

You may not find a lot of posters here who have experienced this kind of abuse, but who have left due to other kinds of abuse- because- abuse of any kind was enough for them to decide they won't tolerate it. One reason you may not get a lot of replies from people who were in a physically abusive relationship is that- not all pwBPD are physically abusive. It is possible to have BPD and be physically abusive, but BPD isn't an excusable reason. Physical abuse on its own is a reason to be greatly concerned and seek out professional advice now to protect yourself and your boys.

[T0M]

Jesus man,
That sounds intolerable to me.

I second Notwendy in this. This should stop. Especially if kids are involved. They will start to copy that behavior and adopt it as being 'normal'.

My GF with BDP only once did something physical to me during one of her panic attacks. She threw my cloths at me saying I needed to leave. And that was exactly what I did. I stood up and told her that we were done.

She immediately turned her behavior around, begging me to stay. In the morning she wrote a letter to me apologizing for what had happened.  So that one time (now 6months ago) I tolerated. But if this happens again, she knows we are done for.

As I see it there are 9 main characteristics for BDP. My GF has most of them but luckily not  the aggressive part. I don't think I would put up with that.

Good luck man.

[15years]

Hi you all,

It's a unique reality check for me to read your replies. In some areas my relationship is less problematic then for others who write here, she does keep the house tidy for example and she has lots of love to give. As the physical violence started 14 years into our relationship, I still can't quite believe it's more than the result of a crisis. However there are evidence that point to this being a development of her delusions rather than just a temporary crisis.

For example, she brings up past events when she didn't rage at me but now afterwards thinks she should have. She talks about this as having been a doormat for other peoples unresolved feelings. Now she has set a no tolerance limit for being treated badly and I have little clues what my next mistake will be.

There are many long time victims of physical abuse in the world, why do you think they're not on this website? Are they so manipulated that they wouldn't dare to seek support? Or does it fall more under the category of narcissism so a bpd support group seems unhelpful? Or is it that as soon as they start to see the relationship for what it is, they put it behind them and never look back?

[Notwendy]

Why are there not more partners with physical abuse here?

BPD is on a spectrum. There are core symptoms but these can vary and so can the different ways a person with BPD acts on their feelings. For instance- some posters here are dealing with a partner's infidelity- and some are not. Some pwBPD are low functioning, and some have careers and are high functioning. The common issue is the nature of the relationship. BPD manifests itself the most in the most intimate of relationships- so they may behave differently in public than with their own immediate family.

Some people with BPD may be physically abusive but not all are. As I mentioned before, physical abuse is an extreme. We all have our boundaries in a relationship. These relationships can be difficult but some people tolerate more than others. I think most people do not tolerate physical abuse because it is so extreme and also dangerous and an obvious boundary. Insulting someone is not a crime. Causing body harm to someone is criminal. Society does not tolerate that and nobody should. Now, not all people who harm others are evil. If someone is so mentally ill that they are physically abusive, then they are a danger to society. To be blunt, your wife is a danger to you and your children, and so should either be in jail or a mental hospital. I know that sounds brutal.

While my BPD mother isn't physically abusive, if not for my father's caretaking and the money he left her, she would likely have had to be in some kind of mental hospital. She can not function in the world or take care of herself. As an elderly person, it's "normal" to need assistance with daily living, yet she has needed this for as long as I can remember. Yet, while she is abusive and destructive in other ways, she still knows the boundary of physical abuse. She knows it's criminal and not to do it. Why he tolerated this situation, I don't know. I actually called social services to see if I could intervene when he was elderly due to her abuse. They told me as long as he was in sound mind, he could make his own decisions and he'd have to report and press charges for them to intervene. He would not do that.

Your wife may know it's wrong but she does it anyway. When people cause harm to others, there are natural consequences- people call 911, press charges. Most of us know it is wrong to do this. The consequences are there as a deterrent for people who don't have that boundary. Because you have tolerated this behavior, there is no deterrent for your wife- she has no reason to not abuse you. You are the one enabling it.

So you are possibly correct that a person who has been subjected to physical abuse may not be on this website trying to improve their relationship because they would not stay in one. However, there are other posters here who are in one, not many, probably due to the dynamics. The abusive relationship is a cycle between two people. There are good times between the harmful ones. The abusive person also isn't usually all bad. Neither are criminals "all bad'. They may have their positive qualities. But they are also harmful.

The partners who tolerate physical abuse also have their own qualities, such as co-dependence. Some also stay if they are financially dependent on the abuser. Denial may play a part in this as well. I think abuse also breaks down the partner's boundaries and self worth over time. There is such a thing as Stockholm Syndrome.

You have to know your bottom line. If you continue to tolerate abuse, it will continue. She may not directly be attacking your children but being witnesses to this is damaging them too, and eventually she will abuse them too.

This is important: Leaving an abuser is a precariously dangerous situation because, the abuser will escalate at this time and often can cause the most harm then. There needs to be an escape plan and a safe, private place to go. Before you consider this, I would suggest contacting a professional to assist you, a local DV hotline or someone who has expertise to advise on how to do this. There are people who are trained in assisting with this. I don't have that expertise, but know it's important to consult someone who does.

[Notwendy]

You mentioned that your wife brings up all kinds of reasons for why she gets to abuse you and you don't know what your next "crime" will be. This is a hallmark of abuse- to justify and blame the other person for her behavior.

Do you really believe people deserve to be physically abused? This is unacceptable behavior. You are not to blame for her actions. She's accountable for them.

[15years]

I do not believe anyone deserve to be abused. I will lock myself in the bathroom every time she tries to attack me and see how thay affects this.

The difference between male and female violence is like the difference between getting slaughtered and getting shot dead.

I have been talking to a DV oriented mental health professional but I haven't disclosed how frequent and violent the violence is because of the fear of her contacting child protective services. I was confused at our last session, she has been reluctant to name a diagnosis and in stead talks about "people with these sort of emotional problems". I told her I'm not sure her problems comes from childhood only but also could be from birth. She then told me in that case it would be a personality disorder, which is something different from what we've been focusing on.

[I Am Redeemed]

You have just named another reason DV victims stay in a relationship: the fear that reaching out for help and disclosing the full situation will result in a CPS call. However, not disclosing the full picture and asking for help can also look to CPS as though you are not doing everything you can to protect the kids. That's what happened to me, and I lost custody.

I was with my ex 10 years and married for 7. There was severe physical abuse and I tried to leave several times. Notwendy described many of the reasons why I found myself returning. Abuse doesn't always end when the victim leaves, and between the pressure and intimidation of the abuser for the victim to return, plus the challenges of a DV victim to navigate social service systems and financial issues, compounded with the effects of trauma bonding and possibly PTSD... it's hard for a victim to leave, stay safe, and not return.

Diagnosing mental health is not an exact science. There are assessment tools, but people may have more than one disorder and symptoms of several disorders overlap. Mental health professionals will not diagnose someone they haven't personally assessed. They can speculate and hypothesize, but diagnosing is an in depth process that takes many factors into account.

[Notwendy]

15 years, you are in a difficult situation, but you still have choices. Unfortunately each choice is difficult and has a cost to it. Which you choose depends on your boundaries. You can not have it both ways- to stay in an abusive relationship while not affecting you or your children. You are going to choose the path that matches your boundaries and gives you the choice of results you want.

Choice #1: run to the bathroom and lock yourself in there whenever your wife is upset. This means your decision is completely dependent on your wife's feelings in the moment. ( that is actually what co-dependent means- making the basis for your decisions dependent on the moods and emotions of someone else, rather than your own feelings and boundaries). Your wife's feelings steer the wheel of your home and everyone in it. It goes according to her. No other people in the family matter, just her. Not you, not the kids.

Benefit: you can stay in the relationship, you don't face your fears of what happens if you do something different. You remain afraid of her, but you choose the fear you know rather than the one you don't know.

Choice #2: you bring this into the light and are actually honest with your therapist about what is going on. The therapist is not in your home, she doesn't know your wife. She forms her advice entirely on what you tell her. If you don't tell her what is going on, the best she can do is speculate and her advice might not work. You've essentially made her less effective.



I haven't disclosed how frequent and violent the violence is because of the fear of her contacting child protective services.


This, right here, is the choice you have made. This is choice #1.

You might say you are protecting the kids from the trauma of being taken away. No, you are not. You are protecting your wife from the consequences of physical abuse.

What makes you think that a CPS investigation is less traumatic than what the kids are witnessing now?

Were CPS to investigate, the cost would be your relationship. Your wife would get angry at you. I don't know exactly what CPS would do. For one, they wouldn't be able to do much if they couldn't prove abuse, and I doubt that your wife or you would admit to that. If there was proof  the kids might be placed in temporary custody while your wife would need to undergo anger management therapy and actually work on the issues to get the kids back. Without such motivation, she has no reason to not continue her behavior. Taking away the consequences of violent behavior is enabling.

Why do people stay with abusers? I guess everyone is different. What my mother did to us when we were kids is not what made me take action. I was expected to tolerate that, and having love and approval from my father was contingent on that. But when she started to enlist/groom my own kids, that was my bottom line. I will not allow her to do to them what she did to me. She didn't like that boundary and my father jumped into "rescue" her and was angry at me. I had hoped he'd understand why I would want to protect my kids. He didn't, because I guess, his priority was focused on appeasing my mother and the fear of upsetting her if he didn't.

The next one was when I observed her abusing him in his elder years. He was frail and sick. While she didn't directly physically abuse him, what she did was enough for me to fear for his health. So I did the unallowable. I disclosed it- to his doctor, health care team, and social services.

And the cost of that was my relationship with him. He cut it off ( at my mother's request probably).


He chose decision #1.

I chose decision #2

The choice you make is up to you, and I know it's hard. Just keep in mind that the therapist is not there to diagnose your wife. She's there to assist you with the choices you have and the one that is most beneficial to you. There may be more choices than listed here.

[15years]

Your comments help me getting a clearer picture of what is going on, I'll have to consider these options. Option 2 is clearly the right one, but what if I'm missing something. Option 1 keeps the family together.

Staying together but choosing option 2, is that possible even?

[Notwendy]

I think it may be possible in some instances, but change involves risk and a lot of work on both your parts.

I think it is possible to make changes in relationship dynamics- but keeping in mind- we can't change the other person and also the dangerous situation of physical abuse which requires professional help. When we act on our own boundaries- they have the choice- to adapt, or to decide to not adapt and they may end the relationship. I think one reason for defaulting to appeasement is the fear of the latter and the unknown. You know what behaviors to expect if you don't make any changes, and these are familiar to you.

While appeasement can be a short term solution, bringing a moment of reprieve, it's not a long term solution as it reinforced the behavior. This behavior works for them, and so there's no incentive to change.

Making changes when there is physical violence is a unique situation that requires professional help. This is because of the natural patterns of behaviors. Think of the Pavlov dog experiment ( and I am not suggesting anyone is a dog, this is how all living beings react ). The dog got a treat when it pushed the button. Then it changed and there was no treat. The dog, knowing the behavior worked in the past, pushed the button harder and faster. This is the extinction burst. Eventually it got the treat- which reinforced the extinction burst. When this happens, intermittent reinforcement- it becomes the most powerful reinforcement. This is the same as when someone uses the slot machine and occasionally wins and why gambling can become addictive.

If there's no physical violence involved, then the extinction burst might be a big rage outburst, threats- a big temper tantrum. That's tough to deal with, but it won't be physically harmful if that person has that boundary ( and emotional abuse may escalate to physical but there's no history of that ). When there is physical abuse involved, the boundary is not there and the extinction burst can escalate to serious and life threatening injury. So an attempt at changing your behavior is too dangerous for you to do, and this requires professional advice and intervention if needed.

For the reinforcement of your wife's behavior to stop, you need to stop "protecting" her from the consequences of her behavior. Were she to face them, there's the possibility of intervention for her that could be helpful. You want the relationship to last- but it takes both people to want it. If she needs to make changes to keep her children and her marriage- then this requires her valuing the relationship and being motivated. This is the risk- she will either be motivated or not.

This isn't a quick process- any change takes time and work. She needs a mental health assessment and treatment. It's not going to change on its own. After an episode, there can be a "good phase" in the cycle where it appears she is changing- but then the cycle moves on. This isn't change - it's a part of the cycle. Change takes work and time.

If the law, or CPS were to get involved, then she'd experience the natural consequences of her behavior. As long as she doesn't have to face any consequences, she has no incentive to make any changes. But due to the physical violence involved, before there's intervention on your part, you need to have your and the children in a safe place, and so consulting a DV hotline, your counselor, someone with expertise to advise you on what to do is essential so you know what to do and what your options are.

People are often advised to have a safety plan in place, a packed suitcase, cash, in the case of escalated physical violence. Even if you want to keep the relationship, you and the children are at risk of injury or worse. Physical violence can escalate. Please consult professionals for help with this situation as it is a dangerous one.

[PearlsBefore]

I do not remember the exact days but can relate several episodes. One day I woke up by being kicked. Over night she unlocked my phone and found that 5 years ago I looked at the profile of my ex. It was enough for her to start kicking me. I’m much more physically stronger and I was able to stop her. Even after that I’m still the worst and the fact I looked at the profile of my ex BEFORE we were in a relationship is enough for her to start being violent.
She also threw objects to me. And one time cutted me with a battle knife. She filled 5 false police reports and I was arrested a few times. One day cops violated my house and removed me from my bed while I was sleeping. It was also a false report. You cannot be violent while you sleep.

I don't know how this guy found my autobiography, but yup - very similar here. I was once sleeping on the ground holding our son and she just began kicking me hard in the gut with a blow or two landing on the head as I struggled to orient myself. She had no real explanation beyond "I'm stressed, sorry". Throwing of objects is routine though probably only once or twice a month, we've lost a lot of electronics and glass items because of course she looks chiefly for breakable things to throw to kill two birds with one stone. Also had at least two occasions coming at me with a knife, once because she felt disrespected I'd blatantly ignored her demands for name-brand mayo instead of store-brand (hey, we're poor)...the other time was one of her crazy batarang/klingon/dragon knives from the Mall Ninja stores.

NotWendy is correct in theory, get to safety and alert authorities - but in actual practice it doesn't work like that at least not where I am (major North American city). I've been told multiple times that so-and-so's services are only for women, even the government phonelines say "If you are a woman who is experiencing...". They don't even try to hide the insane gender bias - all of this at a time when the youngest generation (not my own) now reports MORE domestic violence by women than by men. Yet some number like 98% of all domestic violence monies in society are put towards non-male shelters, non-male lawyers, non-male social workers, non-male emergency payments, etc.

And then they say "Oh, men are just terrible at asking for help".

[Notwendy]

I agree, there is gender bias and most resources are for women and children. DV shelters are women and children, so this might mean a hotel is the escape plan. This bias also means that if there's an incident, you are more likely to end up in jail.

The consequences of no intervention are that the behaviors are not likely to change, so while it may be harder to obtain assistance and resources, the alternative is to not do that.

Did you see this thread?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=352346.0

This could have potentially gone the other way, with him in jail, but this time the police were able to see more clearly.

[15years]

I don't think I've ever considered leaving her for the DV alone, but maybe that's something I could consider. I have much more problems with the anger and control.

Yesterday I went to see my dad at his company with my son because I'm on parental leave from work. It was a spontaneous idea and I told her about it while she was still sleeping. She told me to drive safely and bring diapers. When I got home 3,5 hours later she was absolutely furious, because I had not asked her to join me. She "stabbed" me in the back with her toothbrush while I was walking away from her with my son in my arms.

She felt so betrayed, we had talked about cooperation the night before and this was totally against cooperation, me deciding myself to go visit my father without asking her to join me.

Today she told me, speaking of cooperation, that if everyone would think like her there wouldn't be any wars.

PS.
I live in a European country and the police and court system here is not as biased as it seems to be in the US. I'm not afraid to be jailed for nothing ot not being allowed to see my kids, it doesn't happen here much. Retaliation on the other hand could give me trouble but I'm very aware of that.

[15years]

If she demands an apology from me and I refuse to give it and refuse to agree I've done something wrong. Is that a battle not worth taking? I finally did apologize, I said "I'm sorry, I could have thought about you more". I guess that is exactly what intermittent reinforcement means. Should I have casually apologized earlier to avoid that? The argument becomes about me not apologizing to my women who I hurt and it sounds utterly silly to not apologize that i hurt her feelings if that's all.she wants to hear. If I had apologized earlier, there might have been more demands in store, like "I want a real apology." but now she was fine with "okay then I'm sorry".

She was hurt because I SUGGESTED/KIND OF ASKED if she wanted to watch the documentary FYRE.

[Notwendy]

The Karpman triangle is a model of dysfunctional relationships ( not just BPD). In the scenario where the person is in victim perspective, they will find something that validates it. So you can't change this, something you do or say will be perceived as "hurting her" because this is how she sees it. But the truth is, she has chosen to be hurt by these things. You didn't hurt her, she chose to be hurt.

You can not change how someone else thinks or feels. If she's replaying some past trauma with you, you are playing the role of the persecutor to her. It has nothing to do with you, but the projection of her feelings.

I don't know where she got her strange thinking about men and what a man should be, but you need to hold on to your own self image, as a man, and not let her define you and what you are. That's a boundary violation and defining someone else- telling them what they should think like, is also a form of abuse.

How about your own identity as a human being? Whatever she thinks about gender roles- both men and women are humans. Do you think she's entitled to treat you this way because you are a man? Even if she was mistreated by a man in the past, you are not him. You don't owe her penance for what you didn't do.

What was there to apologize for? Maybe a possible misunderstanding ( doesn't sound like it, sounds more like a set up to agree that you should go and then make you apologize for that ). Perhaps the most honest apology might be " I am sorry you felt that way" because you didn't cause how she feels but can be sorry she does feel that way - even if you can't change that.

Sounds to me like she wants you to grovel. This is pretty twisted, but again, I watched my father be my BPD mother's servant while she verbally abused him. I don't understand why she has the need to do this, but she does, and she does it to other people as well. She will insist they do things for her, then find something wrong with what they did and insult them. I guess this meets some strange emotional need for her.

How long can you sustain this? As long as you want to, I guess. It's your choice.

[Turkish]

15years

Those stats of her violence are horrifying. Do you have a Safety Plan?

Children exposed to DV isn't good, not to mention you.