Mental Illness vs Culture

[WhatToDo47]

Curious what people think about this. My soon to be ex wife came from a culture that basically encourages BPD like behaviors (intense unstable emotions, manipulation, power struggles, deceit, selfishness etc). I know it sounds odd that such a culture exists, but it does and she comes from it.

Today, my therapist brought up the idea that perhaps some of the way she acts are cultural instead of just BPD, and those aspects she could maybe work on and change, and she always claimed to see the toxicity of this culture and want to change it, that’s one reason we lasted 6 years. Then, in an instant, she threw it all away and went running back to the toxic culture and family.

Do you guys this think that she could change any of this? Would her BPD prevent the self awareness and follow through necessary? Not sure exactly what I’m asking but hopefully this makes sense.

[drumdog4M]

I am a bit confused by your question and have a hard time believing that any culture behaves in a manner similar to BPD traits to such a degree that one could be said to appear to meet the diagnostic criteria. What culture is it, if you do not mind sharing? I cannot recall whether your ex has been diagnosed.

Regardless of whether she actually suffers from the disorder, if her behavior resembles it, do you want to live with that sort of behavior. If she claims it's a cultural issue, is she willing to undergo therapy and address whatever, mental health or cultural issues are causing havoc in your relationship.

My sense is that most therapists who have not seen an individual as their client are very reluctant to informally diagnose or even label them. Often they will give them the benefit of the doubt, even when perhaps unjustified.

But I keep coming back to, does she really want to change? If so, part of that change is her doing the work to figure out the actual cause of the behavior to assess whether change is possible. If BPD, for example, would she engage in DBT therapy to learn to regulate her emotions, etc. It might be helpful even if she's not a pwBPD.

I'm not sure if this response helps at all. I'm a bit frazzled myself now (having literally no sleep last night due to my emotional destabilization from interactions with my ex. but want to provide whatever thoughts I can share.

[WhatToDo47]

I am a bit confused by your question and have a hard time believing that any culture behaves in a manner similar to BPD traits to such a degree that one could be said to appear to meet the diagnostic criteria. What culture is it, if you do not mind sharing? I cannot recall whether your ex has been diagnosed.

Regardless of whether she actually suffers from the disorder, if her behavior resembles it, do you want to live with that sort of behavior. If she claims it's a cultural issue, is she willing to undergo therapy and address whatever, mental health or cultural issues are causing havoc in your relationship.

My sense is that most therapists who have not seen an individual as their client are very reluctant to informally diagnose or even label them. Often they will give them the benefit of the doubt, even when perhaps unjustified.

But I keep coming back to, does she really want to change? If so, part of that change is her doing the work to figure out the actual cause of the behavior to assess whether change is possible. If BPD, for example, would she engage in DBT therapy to learn to regulate her emotions, etc. It might be helpful even if she's not a pwBPD.

I'm not sure if this response helps at all. I'm a bit frazzled myself now (having literally no sleep last night due to my emotional destabilization from interactions with my ex. but want to provide whatever thoughts I can share.

That is helpful for sure! Hope you’re able to get some rest soon. She comes from a post Soviet Union gangster culture, basically. Her family is pretty much in exile and even sanctioned now with everything going on with Russia and Ukraine. It’s a very cutthroat, backstab, two faced, do whatever it takes to survive kind of thing. They feel wronged by history, society, etc and feel like they’re better than everyone else but the world is too stupid to see it and appreciate their greatness and, as such, they’re entitled to do or act however their intense, impulsive emotions dictate. Also very abusive physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, as it is a culture based on power and manipulation, not virtue and love. Not sure if that makes sense.

Diagnosis is grey with her, she was working on herself and seeing a therapist weekly. She meets all the diagnostic criteria and has a history of suicide attempts and self harm and lots of rocky relationships (friends, family, professional, romantic, etc). That therapist told me when she left basically that she had BPD but without explicitly saying it for privacy reasons. He told me to look it up and to be careful, read about it, etc.

She was always willing to do the work before, or at least pretend to, to leave that culture and have a different and healthier life than her parents/upbringing. She acted like she was working on her character and claimed to see the faults and want to be different than her upbringing. Until she wasn’t. One day she just split on me, raged, said I was trying to control and change her by encouraging her to get therapy, and moved back with her parents, a week or so later to move in with a new guy who she randomly met during those few weeks. She has also quit therapy, as far as I’m aware, and this isn’t the first time for that either.

[GaGrl]

When my husband and I reconnected (we have known each other as teens) and he described his ex-wife, I asked him how much of her behavior was cultural and how much was psychological issues. He immediately said 50-50. Some of her issues and behaviors do, indeed, have cultural roots. That is difficult to address and overcome.

Ex's culture is SE Asian and, at the time of their marriage in the 1970s, still had arranged marriages (which she defied), very different attitudes toward sex and fidelity, a focus on status and "face," and very different attitudes toward the hierarchy of the family (parents first, then children, then aunts/uncles, then brothers/sisters, then finally husband, and very different values regarding money. All of this meshed with various aspects of her uBPD/NPD to create a perfect storm.

[WhatToDo47]

When my husband and I reconnected (we have known each other as teens) and he described his ex-wife, I asked him how much of her behavior was cultural and how much was psychological issues. He immediately said 50-50. Some of her issues and behaviors do, indeed, have cultural roots. That is difficult to address and overcome.

Ex's culture is SE Asian and, at the time of their marriage in the 1970s, still had arranged marriages (which she defied), very different attitudes toward sex and fidelity, a focus on status and "face," and very different attitudes toward the hierarchy of the family (parents first, then children, then aunts/uncles, then brothers/sisters, then finally husband, and very different values regarding money. All of this meshed with various aspects of her uBPD/NPD to create a perfect storm.

That’s very interesting and sounds very much like the dynamic I’ve experienced with her. A different culture obviously but the hierarchy and different attitudes and values meshing with uBPD/NPD sound so similar to what I was up against.

[WhatToDo47]

When my husband and I reconnected (we have known each other as teens) and he described his ex-wife, I asked him how much of her behavior was cultural and how much was psychological issues. He immediately said 50-50. Some of her issues and behaviors do, indeed, have cultural roots. That is difficult to address and overcome.

Ex's culture is SE Asian and, at the time of their marriage in the 1970s, still had arranged marriages (which she defied), very different attitudes toward sex and fidelity, a focus on status and "face," and very different attitudes toward the hierarchy of the family (parents first, then children, then aunts/uncles, then brothers/sisters, then finally husband, and very different values regarding money. All of this meshed with various aspects of her uBPD/NPD to create a perfect storm.

I am curious if you care to share, how did their marriage end and how/how long after that did you and your husband reconnect? has she caused you two any issues or generally left you alone?