Depp v. Heard

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I don't think Depp actually cares about the money. Suing pretty women is a very hard way to make money. To make money, he'd be better off spending his time producing a new movie or going on tour.

The point of the lawsuit is to take a pound of flesh from Heard and destroy her career, forever. If Johnny was toxic after the op-ed, Heard is now nuclear. Shortchanging the ACLU while using its name to further her career and destroy a beloved character in the process? That's un-American.

https://www.change.org/p/dc-entertainment-remove-amber-heard-from-aquaman-2

I'm really not in the defend-Amber-Heard business, but man, if that is what Johnny is "trying" to do, well...nobody's looking good in this thing.

[stolencrumbs]

I don't think Depp actually cares about the money. Suing pretty women is a very hard way to make money. To make money, he'd be better off spending his time producing a new movie or going on tour.

The point of the lawsuit is to take a pound of flesh from Heard and destroy her career, forever. If Johnny was toxic after the op-ed, Heard is now nuclear. Shortchanging the ACLU while using its name to further her career and destroy a beloved character in the process? That's un-American.

https://www.change.org/p/dc-entertainment-remove-amber-heard-from-aquaman-2

I'm really not in the defend-Amber-Heard business, but man, if that is what Johnny is "trying" to do, well...nobody's looking good in this thing.

[BigOof]

...nobody's looking good in this thing.

Exactly - but Depp will survive and Heard won't. If you look at the q-scores, Depp's scores are reverting back to pre-Heard days.

Depp noted Heard's "ambition" a number of times. Depp is taking the thing most important to Heard: her career.

[Cat Familiar]

I haven’t yet followed Heard’s testimony, but having watched Depp, I think he makes a very credible witness.

Years ago, when I first heard allegations, I, like much of the public, immediately assumed that Depp was the abuser and substance abuser in the relationship. Now, I think it’s likely the latter was true, but I’m doubting the former somewhat.

Having been in a physically abusive relationship, you tend to lose the parameters of what is *normality*. At one point when my ex was feeling momentarily remorseful, he told me I could hit him if that would even up the score. I was very reluctant to do so, but he encouraged me, so I did.

What I didn’t know was in doing so, that released years of the pent up rage I felt and I not only hit him once, I continued to hit him in the chest with all my might for probably 20 blows. I had taken martial arts, but had never made contact like that with a human before. I stopped when I realized I could be breaking his ribs.

He was so shocked that he didn’t respond at all. And I was so shocked that I was capable of going into a blind rage.

One of us was the original initiator of repeated violence in the relationship. It wasn’t me.

But when given a “get out of jail free card” I hit back fully.

Would I ever have initiated violence in the relationship? No

And apparently Depp never did either, judging by the accounts of his previous partners. Heard, however, has a history of domestic violence.

But something happens to your sense of right and wrong when you’ve been attacked by the person who is supposed to love you. I never fought back when physically attacked by my ex. I tried to protect myself and hoped it would go away. I ground my teeth to the point where I needed to get crowns on all my molars. I endured.

When given a moment for retribution, I snapped.

Who is the wronged party in the Depp/Heard case? As others have said, they both will have irreparably damaged reputations due to this litigation. Depp is a beloved figure; Heard is not.

A few years ago I ended up donating through Freecycle a used printer to a local woman who is an advocate for imprisoned women who fought back in relationships with domestic violence. Had circumstances turned out differently, I could have been one of those women. I understand how someone can lose control after years of being a victim of domestic violence.

[stolencrumbs]

I haven’t yet followed Heard’s testimony, but having watched Depp, I think he makes a very credible witness.

Years ago, when I first heard allegations, I, like much of the public, immediately assumed that Depp was the abuser and substance abuser in the relationship. Now, I think it’s likely the latter was true, but I’m doubting the former somewhat.

Having been in a physically abusive relationship, you tend to lose the parameters of what is *normality*. At one point when my ex was feeling momentarily remorseful, he told me I could hit him if that would even up the score. I was very reluctant to do so, but he encouraged me, so I did.

What I didn’t know was in doing so, that released years of the pent up rage I felt and I not only hit him once, I continued to hit him in the chest with all my might for probably 20 blows. I had taken martial arts, but had never made contact like that with a human before. I stopped when I realized I could be breaking his ribs.

He was so shocked that he didn’t respond at all. And I was so shocked that I was capable of going into a blind rage.

One of us was the original initiator of repeated violence in the relationship. It wasn’t me.

But when given a “get out of jail free card” I hit back fully.

Would I ever have initiated violence in the relationship? No

And apparently Depp never did either, judging by the accounts of his previous partners. Heard, however, has a history of domestic violence.

But something happens to your sense of right and wrong when you’ve been attacked by the person who is supposed to love you. I never fought back when physically attacked by my ex. I tried to protect myself and hoped it would go away. I ground my teeth to the point where I needed to get crowns on all my molars. I endured.

When given a moment for retribution, I snapped.

Who is the wronged party in the Depp/Heard case? As others have said, they both will have irreparably damaged reputations due to this litigation. Depp is a beloved figure; Heard is not.

A few years ago I ended up donating through Freecycle a used printer to a local woman who is an advocate for imprisoned women who fought back in relationships with domestic violence. Had circumstances turned out differently, I could have been one of those women. I understand how someone can lose control after years of being a victim of domestic violence.

I can definitely see that, and I am sympathetic to Depp as well. I saw a lot of my life in his testimony. If you have any interest, I'd suggest watching her testimony as well. I don't think either side disputes that he had a serious addiction problem. And I'm pretty skeptical of his ability to recount what he did or didn't do when he was drunk and/or on coke or opioids. I don't think there's much/any evidence that he was abusive while sober (I don't think AH even claims that), and I am sure he doesn't view himself that way. At the very least, he was very controlling and condescending to AH, and he definitely liked to throw things and smash things when he was drunk/on drugs. It's not really clear to me who "started" it. Again, Depp's story resonated a lot with me, but I think most of us here probably would've been rightly stricken from the jury pool for bias. I didn't expect to find AH credible, but I find myself believing a lot of what she's saying, and she has evidence to support a lot of it. And since my ex was not just BPD, but also an abusive drunk for a significant period of time, I also sympathize with how damn hard it is to deal with someone you love who is drunk or on drugs.

Also, they're both actors, so who knows what to believe in their testimony. Their job that they get paid millions of dollars for is literally to make us believe them.

[PeteWitsend]

Yeah, I'm not going to "both sides" this one. 

So Johnny Depp drinks and does drugs... doesn't justify receiving abuse.  At best, it affects his credibility as a witness, but only to the extent he was intoxicated at the time of the events he's testifying to.

I'd still take the word of a drunk over the word of a pwBPD.  Based on my own experience here.

And also based on that same experience, I understand how the near constant mental and emotional abuse can drive you to lash out or respond in kind.  I don't blame anyone on the receiving end of abuse for not keeping their composure.

Unfortunately, in court, or in the hands of a pwBPD your own words and actions get dragged out to refute the original abuse, and people, biased toward a sense of fairness and "50/50 is fair" unfamiliar with BPD, just assume the Non must have done something wrong.

and whether he wins or not, I think he' done himself, and victims of abuse a lot more than her BS grandstanding essay...

[Skip]

Just some background (and timeline)...

Depp sued Britain's "The Sun" newspaper in 2018 for libel and lost the case. "Judge Mr Justice Nicol said the Sun had proved what was in the article to be "substantially true. He found 12 of the 14 alleged incidents of domestic violence had occurred." This is the article at the center of that lawsuit: https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/6159182/jk-rowling-genuinely-happy-johnny-depp-fantastic-beasts/

This is the Washington Post article at the heart of this case. Depp's suit claims he lost a huge payout for Pirates of the Caribbean 6 because of the artcile and is seeking financial compensation ($50M).

Opinion  Amber Heard: I spoke up against sexual violence — and faced our culture’s wrath. That has to change.
By Amber Heard
December 18, 2018

Amber Heard is an actress and ambassador on women’s rights at the American Civil Liberties Union.

I was exposed to abuse at a very young age. I knew certain things early on, without ever having to be told. I knew that men have the power — physically, socially and financially — and that a lot of institutions support that arrangement. I knew this long before I had the words to articulate it, and I bet you learned it young, too.

Like many women, I had been harassed and sexually assaulted by the time I was of college age. But I kept quiet — I did not expect filing complaints to bring justice. And I didn’t see myself as a victim.

Then two years ago, I became a public figure representing domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our culture’s wrath for women who speak out.

Friends and advisers told me I would never again work as an actress — that I would be blacklisted. A movie I was attached to recast my role. I had just shot a two-year campaign as the face of a global fashion brand, and the company dropped me. Questions arose as to whether I would be able to keep my role of Mera in the movies “Justice League” and “Aquaman.”

I had the rare vantage point of seeing, in real time, how institutions protect men accused of abuse.

Imagine a powerful man as a ship, like the Titanic. That ship is a huge enterprise. When it strikes an iceberg, there are a lot of people on board desperate to patch up holes — not because they believe in or even care about the ship, but because their own fates depend on the enterprise.

In recent years, the #MeToo movement has taught us about how power like this works, not just in Hollywood but in all kinds of institutions — workplaces, places of worship or simply in particular communities. In every walk of life, women are confronting these men who are buoyed by social, economic and cultural power. And these institutions are beginning to change.

We are in a transformative political moment. The president of our country has been accused by more than a dozen women of sexual misconduct, including assault and harassment. Outrage over his statements and behavior has energized a female-led opposition. #MeToo started a conversation about just how profoundly sexual violence affects women in every area of our lives. And last month, more women were elected to Congress than ever in our history, with a mandate to take women’s issues seriously. Women’s rage and determination to end sexual violence are turning into a political force.


We have an opening now to bolster and build institutions protective of women. For starters, Congress can reauthorize and strengthen the Violence Against Women Act. First passed in 1994, the act is one of the most effective pieces of legislation enacted to fight domestic violence and sexual assault. It creates support systems for people who report abuse, and provides funding for rape crisis centers, legal assistance programs and other critical services. It improves responses by law enforcement, and it prohibits discrimination against LGBTQ survivors. Funding for the act expired in September and has only been temporarily extended.

We should continue to fight sexual assault on college campuses, while simultaneously insisting on fair processes for adjudicating complaints. Last month, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos proposed changes to Title IX rules governing the treatment of sexual harassment and assault in schools. While some changes would make the process for handling complaints more fair, others would weaken protections for sexual assault survivors. For example, the new rules would require schools to investigate only the most extreme complaints, and then only when they are made to designated officials. Women on campuses already have trouble coming forward about sexual violence — why would we allow institutions to scale back supports?

I write this as a woman who had to change my phone number weekly because I was getting death threats. For months, I rarely left my apartment, and when I did, I was pursued by camera drones and photographers on foot, on motorcycles and in cars. Tabloid outlets that posted pictures of me spun them in a negative light. I felt as though I was on trial in the court of public opinion — and my life and livelihood depended on myriad judgments far beyond my control.

I want to ensure that women who come forward to talk about violence receive more support. We are electing representatives who know how deeply we care about these issues. We can work together to demand changes to laws and rules and social norms — and to right the imbalances that have shaped our lives.

[Notwendy]

Interesting as she mentioned some abuse happened at the ages before she was involved with Depp. The later descriptions- the camera's and such in a sense imply it was him.

BPD and histrionic personality diagnoses don't necessarily negate this. Abuse is prevalent in family dysfunction and that can include family members with BPD. How she recounts it could be influenced by these disorders.

Someone who has been in a relationship with someone like Amber Heard certainly identifies with JD. Others with different experiences seem to be looking at both of them.

Rather than look at who is most to blame, I see a pattern between two people. Having observed my BPD mother's abusive behavior towards my father, I can empathize with Depp and the posters here who have experienced this.

On the other hand, my father didn't get drunk or use drugs. He was never violent in return or self defense. His contribution was co-dependency, compliance. Occasionally he'd get angry and verbally get snippy with her. But we all learned that getting angry at BPD mom just led to it all coming back as she projects it.

Amber is responsible for her abusive behavior. How JD copes with whatever is bothering him is another form of dysfunction- substance and alcohol abuse. This isn't the same as occasionally throwing back a few too many beers at a party. This is an addiction, and addictive behavior patterns in families/relationships are similar to those where one partner has BPD. I learned this in ACA groups which include dysfunctional families.  Of interest to me is that both Heard and Depp have a history of being abused as younger people. Depp's mother abused him and his father.

This isn't to blame JD. But often a disordered person "matches" their partner in some way, not necessarily the same way. One way is how a person manages difficult emotions. Heard becomes abusive, Depp gets drunk. Neither is an emotionally healthy way. These two may have been initially attracted to each other and started a relationship- until someone's behavior got out of hand, but for the relationship to have progressed to the point it did was likely because there was more to it between them.

[BigOof]

If her allegations are true, why did she marry him?

She claims she married him for relationship security to stop the accusations about infidelity. What about the choking, hitting, & pushing? You're okay to marry someone who chokes you, hits you, and pushes you into walls, but as long as they don't alleged affairs the aforementioned DV is condoned?

It makes zero sense she married him knowing and experiencing what she allegedly knew. On the stand, she is too perfect. She doesn't remember any of the violence she committed toward him.

Her testimony is basically reading from a DV textbook. She is so coached it isn't funny.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying Johnny didn't do anything wrong.

[stolencrumbs]

If her allegations are true, why did she marry him?

She claims she married him for relationship security to stop the accusations about infidelity. What about the choking, hitting, & pushing? You're okay to marry someone who chokes you, hits you, and pushes you into walls, but as long as they don't alleged affairs the aforementioned DV is condoned?

It makes zero sense she married him knowing and experiencing what she allegedly knew. On the stand, she is too perfect. She doesn't remember any of the violence she committed toward him.

Her testimony is basically reading from a DV textbook. She is so coached it isn't funny.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying Johnny didn't do anything wrong.

Couldn't that same question be asked of JD? In general, I think there are a lot of complicated reasons that people stay with or make more of a commitment to people who are abusing them.

She did talk about and remember hitting him at least a couple of times. She described in detail hitting him in the face. And she has talked about screaming at him and calling him all kinds of names, and about throwing and breaking stuff. And again, couldn't we say the same thing about JD's testimony. He doesn't seem to remember any of the stuff he did. I guess in his case it might be legitimate because he was blackout drunk (or on some other combination of drugs) during a lot of the incidents.

Obviously, she's coached and is telling her story in a particular way to minimize her culpability. So did JD. That's the way it's going to go in a trial. I just know that, personally, after watching the trial thus far, I don't want to claim any affinity with or have my story compared to JD's. "Oh, so you were like JD?" "Um, h*ll no I wasn't." Just my opinion, obviously. Mainly I just find the whole specatcle really sad.   

[Cat Familiar]

An interesting look at Amber Heard’s testimony from a body language expert who has trained members of the FBI and CIA. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ZxD4UWYgk

[zachira]

Cat Familiar,
This video is a must see. I wish this body language expert would have done a similar video on Johnny Depp's testimony. I have spent nearly my whole life being scapegoated by family members and their flying monkeys. What has always been so hurtful has been the people who bought the smear campaigns without even knowing me. I feel the pain of the men on here who were totally smeared by their ex wives. I am a feminist yet I was appalled by how so many television personalities were saying that they believed all the women when the Me Too movement began. Since when do we give a person a blank check and believe the bad things they say about another person without using other means: like letting time tell the story, paying attention to body language, examining what we have to gain by enabling the smear campaigns, etc.,?  Many of us are here on this site posting, because we allowed ourselves to be taken in by people who weren't the images of perfection they sold us which is the opposite of the sinister people they really are.

[stolencrumbs]

Does that lady read tea leaves, too? I agree, I wish she had done the same analysis on JD. Kind of telling to me that she didn't. The person who has made her name as a popularizer of body language analysis has mainly weighed in on the body language of the less famous person who doesn't have a giant following of justice for Amber people behind her.

Really not trying to be combative. I just think JD is a terrible poster boy for abused men. There is enough actual evidence, texts, photos, etc. to conclude that guy was pretty awful to her, even if the physical abuse allegations are false. I don't think all of them are, but he's pretty terrible even if they are. Someone on the detaching board suggested he was NPD, and I think that's pretty plausible.

[BigOof]

...he was NPD

I can totally see this. Depp has suffered a narcissistic injury and he's now going to be king of the ashes.

[Cat Familiar]

Here’s another video where she briefly analyzes Johnny Depp’s nonverbal behavior, as well as Heard’s.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKHRAvQcpTw

[Cat Familiar]

I thought Depp was congruent too, in the testimony I heard. I haven’t followed the proceedings closely, but now I’ve listened to Heard as well.

I picked up on the language and the unusual facial expressions accompanying her words. It reminded me of a murder trial I followed many years ago.

It was a preliminary hearing that lasted several days. I attended because the defendant was a former professor of mine and knowing how volatile he was, I was curious about his defense.

In a nutshell he and a guy who was a drug dealer were both present when a woman was murdered. There was much cocaine involved. The drug dealer had gone to the cops and told them where to find the gun, which had been dumped off a pier, and had gotten immunity.

The investigation was botched at the outset as it was a he said/he said case, with both men accusing the other. One had status in the community. The other had a long rap sheet.

But watching the professor testify, there was a moment I knew, without a doubt, that he was the murderer.

When asked to reconstruct the scene when the gun went off, he said something about where he was standing, and it began like, “I would have been…”

Not ”I was”.

That, in addition to the fact that he hid the long sleeve T-shirt he had been wearing, which was found to have “blowback” (blood from the gunshot victim) on the sleeve.

The trial ultimately proceeded. I didn’t attend it, as I’d found out what I was curious about. The jury didn’t convict.

Some years later, I ended up sitting outside at a concert next to the defense attorney. I told him the moment I knew his client was guilty and watched his face (after he had been smoking weed)     I’m sure my suspicions were correct.

[stolencrumbs]

I'm just very, very skeptical of anything the TV star "body language expert" had to say. She is clearly not immune to making money, and currently the money to be made is in "justice for Johnny." Honestly, I find him pretty contemptible at this point. Yes, he was in a toxic relationship with a difficult person. He also acted like an enitled toddler. There is evidence to substantiate his obsession with what she wore and who he thought she was sleeping with. All. The .Time. Take out any physical abuse. If AH was on this board just describing JD's behavior, we would all be giving her advice for dealing with a controlling, drunk, drug-addicted, narcissistic manchild who has the emotional regulation skills of a two-year-old. And to bring this to trial...idk. A UK court has already found her allegations "substantially true." He has no chance of winning the case. She made three statements that even suggest he's an abuser, and to me, it's beyond a reasonable doubt that he was. For me, I hope to never in my life encounter a JD or an AH. I wish neither of them on anyone.

[BigOof]

I hope to never in my life encounter a JD or an AH. I wish neither of them on anyone.

Well said.

[PeteWitsend]

I presume Johnny Depp's alcohol and drug use stems more from the fact that people in general - and wealthy people in particular who have the means - like to drink and drugs are fun to do (why else would anyone do them?) and not from coping mechanisms or represent an addiction problem.

I knew plenty of people that did drugs or drank to excess b/c that was the environment they were in (e.g. college, local bar scene, etc.), but when they graduated/grew out of that time in their life, weren't still using/drinking regularly.

I'm curious, because I don't know if there's been actual testimony supporting the claim that Johnny Depp has a drinking or drug problem, or uses to cope with some past trauma.  Seems like he just uses drugs and parties because it's fun to do that, and all his friends in Hollywood do it.  maybe he's getting to old for it, but it's not a cause of the problems here.

Yes?  

[stolencrumbs]

I presume Johnny Depp's alcohol and drug use stems more from the fact that people in general - and wealthy people in particular who have the means - like to drink and drugs are fun to do (why else would anyone do them?) and not from coping mechanisms or represent an addiction problem.

I knew plenty of people that did drugs or drank to excess b/c that was the environment they were in (e.g. college, local bar scene, etc.), but when they graduated/grew out of that time in their life, weren't still using/drinking regularly.

I'm curious, because I don't know if there's been actual testimony supporting the claim that Johnny Depp has a drinking or drug problem, or uses to cope with some past trauma.  Seems like he just uses drugs and parties because it's fun to do that, and all his friends in Hollywood do it.  maybe he's getting to old for it, but it's not a cause of the problems here.

Yes?  

I don't think so. He admits to having a problem with drinking and with opioids. He called his addiction "the monster." He's sought treatment a number of times. And plenty of testimony from both of them suggests it wasn't "partying." He'd sit at home and get blackout drunk and do drugs. On the night when AH allegedly threw a bottle at him that cut off his finger (she denies that account), according to both of their testimonies, they were in a fight and he went into the bar area and started drinking glasses of straight vodka. That's not really partying or having a good time. And I'm pretty sure this was after he was in treatment for his opioid addiction. I have no idea whether this was all a way of coping with past trauma, but it definitely seems like a genuine problem and not that he just likes to party or do some drugs and drink. Whether that's the primary cause of problems or not, that level of drinking/drug use would definitely be *a* cause of problems.   

[Notwendy]

Even teens and college students can have addiction issues.

I think the difference between persistent problems and the situational "college partier" is the persistence and extent.

The college kids who experimented and partied then grew up, had jobs, maybe families and didn't do that.

JD persisted long after that age. In addition, it disrupted his life and relationships, yet it continued.

I don't think access to money was a factor in partying. College kids don't generally have a lot of money. Addiction can also be an issue at any socioeconomic level.

I do think being a star is a unique situation. They don't have ordinary lives. They have vast amounts of money. There's an over focus on appearance- and they are followed by photographers everywhere they go. It's actually a lot of pressure. They also tend to have unstable relationships. It may be a bit chicken and egg- one has to be extraordinarily talented and have somewhat of an ego to achieve this.

[PeteWitsend]

Okay, so he did admit in testimony or otherwise stated he felt he had a problem.

I didn't know if those were his own words, or other people or Amber Heard herself claiming it.

I was skeptical, b/c in my own experience, if we were out on a trip or a date (or anywhere really) BPDxw could go from "calm --> to angry & screaming" in a few seconds, whether we were drinking or not.  But if we were drinking, she would be quick to claim I was drunk and that's why I was angry; it was like a blanket absolution for her, but in reality, drinking had nothing to do with it.

But BPDxw would often ply that for sympathy if she was trying to triangulate & drag someone else into it on her side.  Her hope seemed to be people would assume she was just being a woman, and I was the one creating problems by drinking.  As in "Well, all couples argue a bit, so she's probably not doing anything a woman wouldn't do, BUT he's had a few drinks, and so there's the issue here."

All the focus moves from the BPDer's behavior to the drinker, which they spin into "I only acted that way because you did XYZ, and bla bla bla.."

[Notwendy]

Being accountable is a difficulty.

Even if there's a touch of reality to the claim ( such as you were drinking) the result is- it's got to be you, even if it isn't.

JD has had his wild moments. He has his own issues. I think part of AH's testimony is based on something real but it's about how she recalls it.

[stolencrumbs]

Okay, so he did admit in testimony or otherwise stated he felt he had a problem.

I didn't know if those were his own words, or other people or Amber Heard herself claiming it.

Yes. He has admitted he had a problem. Mainly he admits to abusing oxycodone, but also admits to drinking while using oxycodone. He hired a nurse to help him detox. There are many, many messages about him promising to stop. AH has pictures and videos of him talking incoherently, passed out in a chair, throwing up, etc. At some point in the trial, he said he drank and used drugs in order to "feel normal," and that he didn't do it for the high.

[ForeverDad]

Previously I wrote about sins of commission versus sins of omission, perhaps a better comparison used with personality disorders is:

Acting-out ... versus ... Acting-in

Acting-out is typically linked with narcissistic, borderline, antisocial, histrionic and maybe paranoid.  The harm is directed mostly outward onto others.  Heard has been diagnosed with both BPD & HPD.

Acting-in is typically linked with the other PDs.  The harm is directed mostly inward onto oneself.  While I've seen a comment that Depp could be narcissistic, most descriptions are that he has harmed himself such as with alcohol or drugs.

[Roisin]

It’s quite obvious from reading the many post regarding the Depp vs Herd case that not many responding have ever been involved in a court action of this nature. None of this is about truth & justice, this is all about money, egos & dysfunction of all parties involved. This is a cautionary tale to all involved with a narcissistic abuser. If you called them out they will come at you with everything they have. More money the less justice. Pretty sure we have seen this before with OJ & his dream team. It’s so easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. I’ve been here & it amazes me that people who have so many difficulties in there own lives with family member with mental health issues would give this subject air time. If only that time, energy & money could be put to use in helping people who are suffering with mental health issues & their family members.

[livednlearned]

If only that time, energy & money could be put to use in helping people who are suffering with mental health issues & their family members.

Hi Roisin. Welcome to the Conflicted + Divorcing/Custody/Coparenting board. You have a heavy burden caring for a young adult with BPD and it sounds like you've experienced having a mother with BPD as well, plus daughters who have suffered the worst kind of abuse. I can see why your heart would ache, wanting people to focus on helping people who are suffering from mental illness.

This board has been a safe and healing place for people like me who have suffered from protracted legal abuse, often due to high-conflict people (HCPs) who typically have a personality disorder of some type. Like you said, it can feel like people coming at you with everything they have.

Over the years these televised high-profile cases blow open in the news and it can be oddly validating for those of us who experienced legal abuse ourselves, if only to see how the world makes sense of a legal system ill-equipped to deal with mental illness. It can feel so senseless and tragic to go through these legal experiences with few people understanding what it's like.

People here have been falsely accused of domestic violence, child abuse, kidnapping, substance abuse, sexual assault, neglect. You won't have to convince many here that the family law system is not about truth and justice.  

These experiences complicate the ways in which we navigate our own compassion for loved ones (or former loved ones, often the other parent of our children) who struggle with mental illness.

It takes a lot of emotional strength to not be injured by a BPD relationship, and sometimes the legal system becomes an extension of that abuse, as it has for many of us here.

[2020]

I think we need to be careful with this notion of ‘body language’. It is not good science.

[Notwendy]

Roisin, you are correct, I haven't been in a court case like this. With JD being a high profile celebrity, it's gaining a lot of publicity. People commenting here have not necessarily been watching all of it, yet, have seen it in the media regardless. And some may be watching it out of interest.

I agree, it would be better to turn attention and resources to helping people with mental health issues. One possible positive to this case is that it has raised awareness of domestic abuse to men by women and this may possibly help men come forward with their situation more. I know in our area, the only DV shelter is for women and children, and while they are certainly the most vulnerable in general, this doesn't exclude that men are also experiencing DV with less resources allocated to them.

Your situation sounds very difficult and I think all posters here have experienced the challenge of a partner or family member with BPD in one way or another. For some, it's cathartic, or a diversion to watch/discuss the AH/JD case. For others, it's just too hard to consider watching. For me personally, I have not watched it on TV, but I have read accounts of it and seen a few video clips but would find it too uncomfortable to watch more of it. However, for some, it may bring a sense of validation to do so. Ultimately, I hope some good comes out of this in the way of more awareness and understanding for anyone who is in a relationship like this.

[BigOof]

What a trainwreck?

IMHO, DV victims are the ones most hurt by this.

[stolencrumbs]

Well, color me surprised. I have no idea how the jury got to that verdict.