Calm vs rage

[Notwendy]

I agree that your parents calling her parents is overstepping a boundary. I also understand your feelings of loneliness, but I would suggest not confiding in her family and the feelings of taking sides. It's a form of triangulation. Also, it puts them in the middle, and they can't really choose between you. I do think it's important to have support, talk to someone- a counselor or your brother. I think your romantic life is not something parents want to hear. ( just like we don't want to hear that kind of information about our parents). It's important to not feel alone and I hope you can confide in someone.

I would like to apologize to my brother for that awkward call I made, but have not gotten to it yet, he hasn't mentioned it since.

I encourage you to not put this off and please apologize to him. You will feel a lot better when you do- you won't carry guilt or shame if you apologize. Even if he doesn't say anything, he likely feels hurt.

I will share a story, it's true, really. My BPD mother listened in on my father's phone calls from the house land line and read his emails. During the latter part of his life, he said some hurtful things to me. BPD mother was angry at me and she may have put him up to this but I don't know for sure. I was distressed by them and believed he didn't care about me.

Some time after he has passed away, I found in his papers an apology email to me. He never sent it but he printed it out and saved it. Maybe he changed his mind or was afraid my mother would see it if he did send it.

You are in a different situation in that, you aren't in your elder years, but the longer you wait, the longer your brother has no idea if you care about him or not, and that's hard. He's not saying anything because it doesn't bother him. He's not saying anything because it's too hurtful for him to bring it up.

It's interesting to hear your side of this- that you feel some guilt and shame for saying what you said. It didn't occur to me that my father may also have felt shame and guilt for what he said to me. I didn't consider that, as I thought he meant it. Likely your brother does too.

Do it for you. Ask for forgiveness from him so you can forgive yourself too.

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[Riv3rW0lf]

Some time after he has passed away, I found in his papers an apology email to me. He never sent it but he printed it out and saved it. Maybe he changed his mind or was afraid my mother would see it if he did send it.

This brought tears to my eyes Notwendy. He did stood up to her in the end, when he finally reached a place she couldn't hurt him anymore. But above all, one final hug and validation for you, so you would know he loved you.

I am so sorry he couldn't tell you while he was alive, I hope this brought you some peace.

[15years]

This is an overstep in boundaries. Maybe it was well meaning, but it still is an overstep. Was it something they did often when you were a teenager? Or a child? Stepping in on every fight? Maybe overprotectively?

I think they were overprotecting me and my siblings, my mom is an definitely an overachiever. I didn't have many fights when I was young. In "Running on Empty" (the book about childhood emotional neglect), the author Jonice Webb mentions that it's hard to remember things from childhood that didn't happen. If you get shielded from experiences or consequences (and feelings), it's impossible to remember them as they didn't or almost didn't happen. Feelings however exists no matter how much we try to make them go away.

I remember one awkward event from when I was 7 years old, I was doing a sleep over at my friends house (a neighbor), I was sleep walking and actually peed in their staircase. I just left it there and went back to sleep, I assume my friends mom cleaned it up. My friends big brother, who was a kind boy, teased me a little the next day but it didn't become a big thing. I was ashamed about what happened but didn't mention it to anyone and was happy no one else did either. My parents didn't speak much about similar events at home. I remember I somehow thought that pee dried up during the day so I didn't need to mention it to anyone, but of course my mom changed the sheets without telling me.

My soon 6 year old don't have any bed-wetting problems but a couple of times he hasn't made it on time to the toilet. On one of those occasions we all laughed about the fact that he accidentally peed on his moms clothes that was laying on the floor, so ironically it turned out a nice memory.

[15years]

It's interesting to hear your side of this- that you feel some guilt and shame for saying what you said. It didn't occur to me that my father may also have felt shame and guilt for what he said to me. I didn't consider that, as I thought he meant it. Likely your brother does too.

Do it for you. Ask for forgiveness from him so you can forgive yourself too.

I will. He annoys me sometimes but I love him.

I'm very confident that your father didn't want to say mean things to you and that he loved you very much. When we are under the influence of such an emotional person we think that other people almost can't get hurt so they become our priority. You are one of the contributing factors to me learning to not put too much energy into appeasing my wife or feeling too guilty for her feelings towards me. I have managed to stay more clear headed and present in reality and I think I already notice that my kids are more at peace as a consequence. I think they feel that I can take care of myself and they don't have to worry too much.

[Notwendy]

Thanks, this means a lot to me.

When we are under the influence of such an emotional person we think that other people almost can't get hurt so they become our priority.

Yes, it puts you in a high alert state, emotionally. I didn't understand the dynamics at the time, and also, it was an emotionally challenging situation for me as well, and I did react emotionally to both of their behaviors. It was classic Karpman triangle, which I didn't understand at the time.

Yes, siblings can be annoying, ( as can any family member) but unless it's a toxic person, it's a special bond worth protecting. I think it will mean a lot to him for you to reach out and apologize.

I think for a parent, it's hard to stay on that line between protection and over protection. I'd be protecting a 7 year old too. But with romantic relationships- that's a hard one. Parents do have some role when the adolescent is under 18- and yet, they also teens have some autonomy as well. It's important that you don't isolate yourself- and have someone to talk to, but someone like a counselor would be in a position to help without stepping into the Karpman triangle. Your parents would want to protect you, and your wife would then perceive them as a threat and pull you to her side "against them". They are wise to not say too much and just remain supportive.

As far as your wife's family- the idea of them "siding with you" is also something to consider avoiding. Yes, you want validation- that these issues are real, but her family is not likely able to do that for you- as you have seen- confiding in them results in you feeling lonely. They may be aware of your wife's issues but they are also her parents- and parents can't really be objective. They have an inclination to protect her too. And also- Karpman triangle dynamics likely exist for them too.

This is how my BPD mother perceives the people around her. They are either "on her side" or "not on her side" and if she believes they are "not on her side" then this put my father in a difficult choice to choose- to stay "on her side" he'd have to support that and distance himself from those "not on her side".

My mother's extended family tries to stay "both sides" but they are clearly aligned with her and protective of her. That is a long standing family pattern- to "normalize" the situation as much as possible. I also have tried to confide in them, but see now, that it was ineffective- I felt that sense of loneliness- I think the word for that is invalidated, but I realize now that to look to them for validation of what I see going on puts them in a cognitive dissonance. It puts them in the uncomfortable position of choosing. Either my point of view is valid, or BPD mother's is valid. They can't both be. While we do speak on the phone to share how my mother is doing- in general, I am careful about what I say to them.

But you should have someone you can talk to, and a counselor won't be on that triangle. Siblings are a special relationship and you can use your own judgement with what to say. I hope the two of you can just hang out, grab a beer, and pal around too.

Riv3rWolf- thanks for your kind words. It does give me comfort to know he wrote it, and that I could find it.

[Riv3rW0lf]

As far as your wife's family- the idea of them "siding with you" is also something to consider avoiding. Yes, you want validation- that these issues are real, but her family is not likely able to do that for you- as you have seen- confiding in them results in you feeling lonely. They may be aware of your wife's issues but they are also her parents- and parents can't really be objective. They have an inclination to protect her too. And also- Karpman triangle dynamics likely exist for them too.

I agree with this.

I just wanted to add, 15yearw, that if you can sometimes glimpse that your wife's mother exhibit BPD behaviors, then maybe it would be worth considering she is BPD...

BPD mothers usually create at least one borderline child. There is a psychologist on YouTube who discuss the borderline mother-daughter relationships  and how it can evolves in different ways : Dr. Todd Grande
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ro3gTyuoTc

When "enmeshed", they can gang up on the daughter's husband, who is a trigger and a rival to the mother.

Chances are, her family is an extension of the unhealthy dynamics she is herself displaying... So I would steer clear of them and keep any confidence to them at a minimum.

[TheBatHammer]

When "enmeshed", they can gang up on the daughter's husband, who is a trigger and a rival to the mother.

Chances are, her family is an extension of the unhealthy dynamics she is herself displaying... So I would steer clear of them and keep any confidence to them at a minimum.

I experienced this. When things escalated, my wife and her mother ganged up on me in verbal accusations and verbal abuse on a few different occassions. At one point her mother "mocked" me for remaining calm. She's often tried to use her mother as an authority to appeal to during arguments. "My mom saw/heard this, that or the other".

It's a sobering moment when you realize the parents and family are more interested in maintaining the illusion that there's nothing wrong (with either their child or them) than getting help.

[15years]

I will think about not trusting her family too much, it's not even right to her since it's her family and not mine. It's both empowering and scary to realize that I have to be able to trust only in myself in some situations.