Just shared in full how I feel with uBPD mom

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I've been out of contact with my mom for a few weeks. We had a tumultuous conversation during which she said several hurtful things to me. I asked her to apologize, and when she didn't, I stopped responding.

She's texted me about several things since then, acting as if everything is normal. Today I finally snapped and took the opportunity to say my peace. I know she won't understand my words in the way that I meant them, and I shouldn't expect a mature response from her, but it felt good to get it out there.

Here's our conversation:

Mom:
   Hi [name], This is your Mom. Is this the right text/iMessage for you? Think I have two. I was so upset about Roe being overturned among other things. I wanted to reach out and see if you’re feeling the same way.

Me:
   Hi, I haven’t changed my contact information. I’m giving myself space from you after you said hurtful things to me and weren’t able to acknowledge or apologize for them. The news about the draft opinion overturning Roe was upsetting to me too.

Mom:
   Hi [name]. So glad to hear back from you! I didn’t say I wasn’t able to acknowledge them. I said I thought it would be better to get together and talk things through, and try to understand each other better, like I know you would do with [boyfriend] or friends.  I still hope we can do that. I would like to understand you better, and hope you feel the same about me.

Me:
   Well, you didn’t acknowledge the hurtful things you said. I understand you want to get together and talk to me about our relationship. You say you want to understand me better. But every time I tell you how I feel or gently set a boundary with you, you say you ‘don’t understand’. This is a pattern of behavior; you either aren’t capable of understanding or just don’t want to understand my perspective whenever I don’t want the same thing as you, and you use that lack of understanding as reasoning to justify why you think my perspective is either hurtful to you or less valid than yours. I’m not interested in having the conversation that you say you want to have, because I expect from previous experience with you that it would mean putting in work to make myself okay with letting you break down my boundaries and make accusations of my character. I’m just not going to do that anymore. You speak in absolutes, you fail to respect boundaries when I set them, and you frequently accuse me of not caring about you. Your words and actions toward me make me think you only see me as a vehicle for helping you with things.

I told you this a little while ago, and I’ll say it again, that I think it would be a good idea for you to work with a therapist on learning to see other people as independent actors who have their own wants and needs, and learning to manage your emotions when they say or do things that aren’t in line with your expectations of their devotion to your wants and needs. It’s my hope that you will commit to learning these things so you can live a more fulfilling life for yourself. If you accomplish that, maybe someday we can have an understanding and respectful relationship with each other.

[FeelingStuck]

I've been out of contact with my mom for a few weeks. We had a tumultuous conversation during which she said several hurtful things to me. I asked her to apologize, and when she didn't, I stopped responding.

She's texted me about several things since then, acting as if everything is normal. Today I finally snapped and took the opportunity to say my peace. I know she won't understand my words in the way that I meant them, and I shouldn't expect a mature response from her, but it felt good to get it out there.

Here's our conversation:

Mom:
   Hi [name], This is your Mom. Is this the right text/iMessage for you? Think I have two. I was so upset about Roe being overturned among other things. I wanted to reach out and see if you’re feeling the same way.

Me:
   Hi, I haven’t changed my contact information. I’m giving myself space from you after you said hurtful things to me and weren’t able to acknowledge or apologize for them. The news about the draft opinion overturning Roe was upsetting to me too.

Mom:
   Hi [name]. So glad to hear back from you! I didn’t say I wasn’t able to acknowledge them. I said I thought it would be better to get together and talk things through, and try to understand each other better, like I know you would do with [boyfriend] or friends.  I still hope we can do that. I would like to understand you better, and hope you feel the same about me.

Me:
   Well, you didn’t acknowledge the hurtful things you said. I understand you want to get together and talk to me about our relationship. You say you want to understand me better. But every time I tell you how I feel or gently set a boundary with you, you say you ‘don’t understand’. This is a pattern of behavior; you either aren’t capable of understanding or just don’t want to understand my perspective whenever I don’t want the same thing as you, and you use that lack of understanding as reasoning to justify why you think my perspective is either hurtful to you or less valid than yours. I’m not interested in having the conversation that you say you want to have, because I expect from previous experience with you that it would mean putting in work to make myself okay with letting you break down my boundaries and make accusations of my character. I’m just not going to do that anymore. You speak in absolutes, you fail to respect boundaries when I set them, and you frequently accuse me of not caring about you. Your words and actions toward me make me think you only see me as a vehicle for helping you with things.

I told you this a little while ago, and I’ll say it again, that I think it would be a good idea for you to work with a therapist on learning to see other people as independent actors who have their own wants and needs, and learning to manage your emotions when they say or do things that aren’t in line with your expectations of their devotion to your wants and needs. It’s my hope that you will commit to learning these things so you can live a more fulfilling life for yourself. If you accomplish that, maybe someday we can have an understanding and respectful relationship with each other.

[WalkbyFaith]

Good job! How does it feel to say that? Liberating, relieving, scary? I imagine it's a combo of all these and more! You're right, she's not likely to grasp or accept what you've said, and she may even hold onto it to use as ammo against you in the future... but despite knowing that, sometimes we just need to say what we need to say! I have been there recently myself and understand that need. I hope you feel peace 

[Notwendy]

Don't be surprised if the result is a rage and accusations flying back at you. Keep in mind, that while you said what you needed to say ( and good for you for being authentic ) her emotional response is her own. This may result in a denial/projection reaction.

I see the comment about Roe as the "camel's nose under the tent". Start by discussing something besides your relationship, like a current event she knows you have an opinion about. Once you are into the conversation, the real reason is revealed.

You really don't believe she called you up to commiserate about Roe. 

[beatricex]

Hi this is your Mom.  Is this your number?  I have two.

I am literally having a flashback cause my BPD Mom could have wrote this!  Why do our moms sound so alike?  Matter of fact and sterile, always reiterating they're the Mom so they feel that one up position of power, I suppose. It's your place to be her daughter is implied.  That's it, that's what you're good for.  ugh, totally invalidating

I like how you replied in a calm manner to this BS, weak attempt to get you back in line.  Many years ago, I stood up to my mom, she just sent her flying monkeys to spew their wrath at me.  While it feels great at the time to hit send, I have learned (really slowly but I'm there) that I don't need her to acknowledge my feelings to own them.  They are mine she can't take them from me and I don't have to share them either.

Great job FeelingStuck.  Are you feeling differently now...anything cropping up besides relief?

 
b

[FeelingStuck]

WalkByFaith: It felt great! I've shared sentiments like this before (along the lines of 'it's not right for you to treat me this way') but this was the first time I put my request for her to get help so clearly. That felt like an accomplishment.

Notwendy: Totally, camel's nose under the tent. My mother raised me to have strong feelings for women's rights (her career is in this area). This was definitely a manipulation to get me to respond. It's tragic because if we did have a good relationship, then of course I'd want to talk to her about this. There are other people she could commiserate with about this topic, but she wrote to me, after I told her I would need space until she could acknowledge & apologize for threatening me with suicide over this past holiday season.

Beatricex: Yup, totally intended as a power move, but thankfully I now (and you also!) see right through that kind of language.

It's been three days since I sent that text message and she hasn't responded to it. I know this is just a typical silent treatment because she didn't get what she wanted from the argument, but I was expecting either a totally blow-up negative reaction or the (far less likely) positive, affirming response. Because I received neither, I'm just sad. I didn't get my inner child needs met, and I didn't get the reaction from her that would make me feel justified to say 'ok, that's it, time to block her phone number' either. But I'm focusing on how good it was that I was able to form my message to her and put my needs out there. And will try to enjoy the space I now have!

Update (as I am writing this reply):

Someone just knocked on my door and delivered me flowers. It's the nicest bouquet I've ever received, probably cost at least $150. Had no idea who it was from, but this was the message in the card:
"Always here for you when you're ready. Love you to the moon and back! -Mom"
It's just outrageous to me how transparent this love-bombing attempt is. She didn't have a good response for me through the texting channel, so she's ignoring our previous conversation and trying a new communication channel. I hate that she's framing her wording as if I'm the one with the problem that needs to be worked out to be 'ready' to talk to her, and she's the ever-perfect, loving mother. I also find it obscene that she bought such an expensive bouquet for this of all things, and I'm pissed it didn't come with an apology. I feel justified in shutting down communication with her now.

[beatricex]

wow FS, I'm kinda shocked too.  just Wow

I wish you could donate them to an elderly person's home or something.  You aren't going to keep them are you?

[formflier]

and I'm pissed it didn't come with an apology. 

I want to join others and applaud you for the bravery to be authentic! 

I'm curious to hear about other times when your Mom apologized and healed the relationship.  Wondering what is different now...

Best,

FF

[zachira]

When we stand up to a person who has mistreated us, we want to be heard. I hope you feel heard by us even though your mother did not hear a word.

[Methuen]

Someone just knocked on my door and delivered me flowers. It's the nicest bouquet I've ever received, probably cost at least $150...
"Always here for you when you're ready. Love you to the moon and back! -Mom"

The first line reminded me of the cycle of abuse.  The third line you summed up perfectly.  She's framing you as the one with the problem.
You are justified to be angry.

You did well to communicate your truth in your email to her.  You found your voice and refused to be her doormat, but used respectful language in telling your truth.  

Regardless of whether you kept the flowers or donated them, they might as well be enjoyed by someone.  It's not their fault.

She will villain -ize you.  That's ok.  It's her problem.  Do you think you've "separated" your feelings from your moms', or is that something you are still working on?

[FeelingStuck]

Beatricex: I gave the flowers to a neighbor! Which felt great.

I'm curious to hear about other times when your Mom apologized and healed the relationship.  Wondering what is different now...

Formflier: Honestly, I can't remember the last time my mom genuinely apologized for her own actions. If she does apologize, it'll be along the lines of "I'm sorry the situation is like this" - for example: "I'm sorry we have such a bad relationship," "I'm sorry if you took offense to what I just said," or "I'm sorry you don't want to spend more time with me." True non-apologies Perhaps the truest apology she ever gave me was for not being able to have another kid (so I could have a sibling), because when I was younger told her I wished I had one. But according to her, her inability to get pregnant was due to health complications, so the apology was for something she didn't have control over, not her own actions. Strangely she has also claimed that she intentionally only had one child "so she could give me more love". ... So maybe that wasn't a true apology either

Zachira, thank you, I do feel supported by you and the others in this community.

Do you think you've "separated" your feelings from your moms', or is that something you are still working on?

Methuen, thank you for your supportive message. I think I've been able to do so, but maybe that's just becaue I live far away from her now and am not presented with her feelings very often. If I were still living with her, I'm not sure I would be fully able to separate my feelings from hers. Lately I've been realizing how many of my opinions on things from public issues to small things like how to clean the house have been influenced by her, and I'd like to form my own opinions. It's a work in progress.

[formflier]

  Honestly, I can't remember the last time my mom genuinely apologized for her own actions. 

Pretty much what I figured. 

Please don't "hear" any criticism here, I'm hoping to help you think critically about a difficult situation.

So...the purpose of "sharing how you feel" is...?

Did it repair the relationship?  Did it get you an apology?

Do you feel better about the situation? 

Is the situation actually better after the confrontation?

Switching gears a bit.

Is it possible your "sharing feelings" feeds something your Mom is looking for?  Is it possible that this encourages more of her bad behavior..rather than resulting in less.


Best,

FF

[Mommydoc]

The flowers are over the top. Reminds me of the “worlds best sister cup” my sister gave me with the qualifier, “I don’t feel that way anymore, but maybe you can reclaim that spot”. So glad someone else is enjoying the beautiful flowers. Great that you gave them away.

FF’s question gave me pause. The purpose of sharing how you feel was for you. It sounds like this is for your growth. A part of this is separating her thoughts/feelings and your thoughts.

I'm not sure I would be fully able to separate my feelings from hers. Lately I've been realizing how many of my opinions on things from public issues to small things like how to clean the house have been influenced by her, and I'd like to form my own opinions. It's a work in progress.

I think many of us are on a similar journey. Letting go of “their thoughts” (judgements, negative emotions, etc) and choosing our own. In Susan Forwards “Emotional Blackwell”’ book she suggests gathering all of those those negative thoughts, emotions, and judgements, literally putting them in a box, wrapping the box like you are going to mail it with the address “return to sender”. I like the metaphor and went through it as a mental exercise. It felt great. Just like giving the flowers away, can you begin to “return to sender” the negative emotions she dumps on you?

Your journey and insights are powerful.  Sharing our feelings and how we feel with a pwBPD doesn’t seem to ever result in an apology, acknowledgment or change in behavior. If you can let go of that hope/expectation and focus on your personal growth, it will be a better use of your energy.

I am at the point, where when my sister goes off, I just listen. I acknowledge her feelings, and usually say something like. We both have a lot of hurt feelings to process, I am working on mine on my own. She pushes me hard to explain, what she has “ever” done to me. It is simply futile as she erupts with the simplest thing and then perseverates on how overly sensitive I am, and how she is doing everything to make the relationship work and I am doing nothing.

My new mantra is to give her no more than 1% of my energy or time and to focus the other 99% on my mom, my family and me. Even my time spent here is becoming less about her and more about me. I am also a work in progress.

[formflier]

So one thing about having a conversation with a "difficult person" (how is that for polite?) is to avoid circular conversations and avoid them "emotionally vomiting" on you.

Drawing that line on what is appropriate to listen and when it "elevates" to the level of "emotional vomit" can sometimes be hard to determine, especially if they are good at "incrementalism" or asking the same question over and over...with only slight differences.

This can also be experienced as "moving the goalpost"...so you answered the question asked but they kinda claim you didn't...because you didn't address (insert this one small thing they hadn't asked about).

The net result:  "It" is never...NEVER...solvable.

What I've done with a good amount of success is very early on let them know you are listening, that it's important and that you want to understand the "new information" they have.

Note...you are friendly and empathetic...yet notice that you just put the work back on them. 

"Hey Sis, what new information do you have to share about Mom's situation."

blah blah blah (same old song...nothing new)

"OK Sis, that sounds like information we have already discussed.  Is there any other new information you wish to bring up?"

blah blah blah..what have I ever done to you?  blah blah

"I hear you Sis and I've got to go.  Let me know when you have new information to share"
 
Then go...and let the eruption happen because "you won't listen" or "you don't care"  (great place to have family screen messages for you).

If you are diligent about this type of approach...what used to be a hour harangue now turns into 10-15 minutes of you putting this back on her to identify the new thought..issue..whatever and then an exit.


Best,

FF

[formflier]

The flowers are over the top. Reminds me of the “worlds best sister cup” my sister gave me with the qualifier, “I don’t feel that way anymore, but maybe you can reclaim that spot”.

So...I've been debating in my head advice to give about the flowers (and cup).

If you follow my advice, I generally avoid direct confrontation/calling a pwBPD out.  The reason is if it is a rare thing when you do that...when you do it's much more POWERFUL.

So...address the gift and let them know it's appreciated and you wish to clarify if it is an apology.   No beating around the bush...just ask and get right to it.

What are they chances they say yes?...right...zilch.

However...this sets you one or two chess moves away from them being boxed in...the important thing is to avoid debating if an apology is owed.  DO NOT answer your opinion on the issue...stick with a spirit of "curiosity".

Mom says no

"Oh good to hear that.  I'm curious then how you wanted me to understand your comment (briefly describe some harangue...briefly)?"

See how you handed it back to them?

Now...if they try to explain that an insult was actually a complement, don't debate it...but don't accept it either.  

"Gosh Mom, that doesn't seem very straightforward...I'm going to need some time to think about it.  Perhaps we can talk more this weekend."  (then go on with your life)  

"I'm confused by that..." might be better than "doesn't seem straightforward".

If it's just a wackadoodle explanation that leaves them a saint and you as a "overly sensitive person"...skip over their judgement.  Stay simple.

"Hmmm...Mom, so it sounds like you were trying to give me a compliment?  Is that how you wanted me to understand your words?"

Anyway...you get the picture.  Keep handing it back to them to explain and don't save them from the unexplainable.

Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

I did read that people with personality disorders don't carry out an apology- at least not in the same way. It's not a true apology because it doesn't include accountability for their actions, and so there isn't the kind of repair we seek.

If we make a mistake, our first step in making repairs is to acknowledge that. " I am sorry I did  ( or said ) XYZ and know it was hurtful".

Then, an attempt to repair if possible " I broke your vase, let me pay for that".  And lastly they don't do the hurtful thing again.

With my mother, her way of clearing the air is what I have nicknamed the dry erase board. It didn't happen. She acts nice ( like the flowers) "see, I am good now" and the expectation is that you also "erase" what happened and don't ever bring it up.

The problem with this is that, there's not a real repair and the behavior is likely to be repeated.

I think the reason behind this is shame avoidance. The feeling of shame would be overwhelming.

That doesn't excuse how the other person feels if they have been the target of the behavior, but it also has helped me to not expect an apology.

My BPD mother also does the "camel's  nose under the tent"  calls me to say she has a question ( that is unrelated ) and then tries to get me to tell her what the issue is, then blames me. I don't get into these conversations with her, they seem useless from my perspective. If she calls me up to discuss something like a current event, I stay on that topic.