Validating the irrational?

[ThatFLGuy]

I need some help with validation. I've been reading a lot and trying to listen to my BPD wife and realize how important validation is to her. She's been seeing someone who labels themselves an "energy healer" who keeps telling my wife to trust her feelings.

Today she blows up at me basically telling me that I've never loved her. I stupidly ask why she thinks this and she says she knows it because she feels it. She all but admits this "counselor" is telling her that whatever she feels is right and we should never let anyone invalidate our feelings. When I tried to tell her of course I love her, then she screams at me "then why don't I feel loved?"

So... how in the world do I validate her irrational feelings? Today was rougher than most but this general illogical loop that I feel caught in has really been the subject of more than half our fights. She feels a certain way, I don't validate it correctly (even if it's irrational) and then I don't love her or whatever the fight spins into.

I know her behavior isn't rational but I just keep getting baited into these kinds of things. If I never engage then that gets me into trouble for being to quiet and being "emotionally unavailable" and if I try to talk to her then I find myself tripped up anyway. Today she actually said, "just quit saying stupid things then you won't get yourself in trouble" likes it's all obvious somehow. It just feels like an unwinnable game sometimes.

Is there anything you would suggest doing to avoid the day to day pitfalls and most importantly how to deal with validating the irrational? I've read walking on eggshells but it just doesn't seem to be working for me because the last time I tried one of their solutions she literally told me "where the $*%& did you read that nonsense? now you're trying to psychoanalyze me?"

Any advice?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Cat Familiar]

Validation is difficult. It’s much easier to try not to invalidate.  https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

We frequently say here “Don’t validate the invalid.” Validating the irrational definitely falls into that category.

When you told her you love her, you invalidated her.

Crazy, yeah. I know.

You’ve got to keep in mind that people with BPD are not mentally organized in
the same way as those of us who are “nons.”

For them, feelings equal facts and there is no way we can make a logical argument strong enough to persuade them otherwise.

So when you told her you love her and she doesn’t feel loved (most likely a feeling she’s had since childhood—and not your fault), you invalidated her.

What you could have said instead would have been some version of this: “That must be so difficult to feel unloved.”

Depending upon how she responded to that, you could take a step further. “I’d like to learn how to show you my love. Can you teach me how to do that?”

It may or may not work, depending upon how worked up emotionally she is. The closer she is to a calm state, the more potential for success.

However you can do it, it might be worth pursuing how she feels love. You might have heard of the different Love Languages: words of affirmation, quality time, receiving gifts, acts of service, physical touch.

I’ve had some issues with conflicting love languages in my relationship. For me, acts of service is how I express love and what makes me feel loved. For my husband, it’s words of affirmation and quality time.

I hear words of affirmation and I think, “Actions speak louder than words. Words are cheap. What does this person want from me? Yeah, right. You think you can manipulate me through compliments?” So obviously words of affirmation doesn’t have the desired effect of communicating his love, but now I understand his intention better, I realize he’s trying to show his love.

Likewise when I do something for him—“She’s always doing something. Why can’t she just spend some time with me and (tell me how wonderful I am)   “ is what I’d imagine he’s thinking. Though as we’ve understood each other better, when I’ve helped him with projects, he has realized that it’s a way of telling him that I love him, and he’s been appreciative.


https://www.5lovelanguages.com/

[FirstSteps]

I just want to validate the challenge

I just came from a conversation where I validated her feelings, asked the question and then received an answer that went along the lines of "prove to me that you actually do love me and give up all your boundaries while you're at it."  I'm paraphrasing but I'm also not being defensive - this was the clear message.

What to do at that point?  I used SET and validated but the "truth" at the end still blew the whole conversation to bits.

I still need to get better at all this.  It's tough to do mid-relationship though, especially when your ways of communicating are so set.  I've gotten a lot of good advice here to start small.  It's clearly not working great in my relationship but I still feel better about that fact because I know I've tried very earnestly and have not pushed too hard, too fast.

[Cat Familiar]

I like to ask lots of questions. Lots of times my questioning becomes annoying to him and he just disengages, which also works for me. (At least I’ve expressed interest and if he is irritated, he can go away and deal with that, but he knows I’ve tried.)

My strategy is to ask sincerely for details with an open mind and if I don’t understand, ask for further explanation—the “explain it to me like I’m five.”  So what if he thinks I “should just know”—I’ll play dumb because I really don’t get the BPD “logic”.

I’d say, “What specifically can I do to ‘prove it to you’ and how will you know by my action that you are loved?” “What does this ____________ (boundary) mean to you?” “I don’t know if I can do that—it sounds really hard.” “Is there another way I can show you my love?” And on, and on, just keep asking for specifics.

It’s possible that the conversation can become so boring to her that she just says, “Never mind.” But at least you tried…

[waverider]

People with personality disorders, and especially BPD, are typically validation junkies. They need lots of it, and no matter how much you give it is never enough. As a partner of people with these needs you get slow boiled into validating the invalid just to keep the peace. Eventually you really feel like you are selling yourself out along with your rights to your own opinions. This eventually leads to resentment, frustrations and preemptive blows ups over trivial issues.

I think of validation as the good oil in helping the mechanics of a relationship turn better. However they cannot totally fix a broken cog, and you have to determine how much is the right amount and just put up with, and not focus on, the fact that some things are just not going to work all that well.

As Cat says pick what you validate, and avoid invalidating  where you can, which is not always possible. Then use questioning, as showing interest is a form of validation, but avoid being committed to agreeing with something that is clearly invalid. Some conflicts cannot always be avoided but you can minimise the angst involved.

Do your best, but be aware you are walking a finnicky line and you will get it wrong at times, so dont guilt yourself when you do. "Fixing" a pwBPDs personal problems should not become your obsession or you will drown in it and end up feeling you have just wasted huge chunks of your life that you cant get back. This can make you very bitter.

My biggest issue at the moment is masking frustration, it just comes out and i know its just putting a match to things

[ThatFLGuy]

Thanks so much for the responses! It's such a relief to be able to have this conversation in a "safe space" where people actually understand the struggle.

My biggest struggle is hearing these things and knowing in my heart they aren't true, but over the years it's worn me down to the point I'm not sure what to believe about myself anymore. In a strange way, some of what she's said has become self-fulfilling because my own depression and anxiety have been eating me away to the point where I'm not the person I used to be.

Anyway, thanks again for the advice, right now I just need to get through the day to day struggles while I'm focusing on myself.

[bluebutterflies]

Hi GregInFL

I'm new to really learning all of the tools of communicating to a partner with BPD so I totally understand where you are coming from. My husband recently has been telling me over and over again that everything is my fault, and I struggled and invalidated him by saying "this isn't my fault." It made him far angrier.

Please remind yourself of your boundaries. It is ok to disengage when you feel like your partner is verbally abusing you, are angry, etc. I recently have messaged my H "I will not tolerate this behavior. We can talk when you are calm." (I was also advised by everyone here not to use the direct "you" so woops). He returned with a calmer message. We can only control ourselves and not our pwBPD, which is one of the biggest things I learned. Your W may still rage back to your validating messages, but if you can continue to validate and not agree, not breach your own boundaries, then you will begin to trust yourself and love yourself more in the process.

Validation is not easy at all. It takes practise, and while I consider myself an empathetic person, I still struggle at it. It's hard when someone is attacking you with their own reality which is not true. But that's the thing, I'm also trying to see everything from a BPD lens rather than from my own lens. It's been helpful for sure.