My turn to get an "apology" letter

[Riv3rW0lf]

So ... My mother wrote me. I suppose my brother had a hand in it, but maybe not, maybe it is just the family pull. Because it is my own mother, and because I am C-PTSD, and because she triggers my fog a lot... I'd like to use this board wisdom.

We talked a lot about genuine excuses, and I imagine this is it. But I am unsure how I feel about it all. Please, give me your opinions! Good or bad, and I will see how I feel reading all of it...I am hoping, by sharing your thoughts, that you will be able to help me feel my own truths, which is lost in fog and hope right now.

Here is the whole thing (translated, but close to the real thing, with the weird pauses and half sentences and all, she writes like she feels...):

RiverWolf, please read with your heart. I am scared writing all this that it will be misunderstood, but I need to try. Thank you for listening.

You have a right to be angry at me for the past. I am sorry about what happened to you. This is not what I wished for you but it is what happened and there is nothing I can do about it. It happened, and I am sorry.

You know, if you think I am still, today, the woman I was back then, then close the door on me, because I do not want to give you power over me. You can punish me, punish yourself, punish those you love , this is your decision. It is a wheel that turns, and you can decide to stop it. It is yours. Me, I chose to continue my journey, with or without you. I decided to feel good in my life today, without pain, without hurt. I would like you to be there, but this is your decision. My door is open.

I decided that I would stop being scared of other's reactions, and to take my responsibility for today.

 You have a right to do what your father did to you, to block me from social media and from your life, it is your choice. I have a right not to be submitted to anyone in life. I have a right to accept not to be scared of you anymore, of your reactions and of your punishments.

I accept my mistakes, my unfairness, my ungratefulness, my incomprehension, my hardness, my insensibility. I am tired of all those wars, that are only words and emotions from the past, that I do not wish to relive. I want to feel good in my self every day that I have left, with you there or not.

You have a right to punish me for helping you, and I have a right not to accept it.

 You have a right to hate me and I have a right to love you.

 You have a right to do what I did all my life or NO, to put the blame on everyone else, thinking you are punishing them, but it is me I punished all my life. Don't be like me, cut the intergenerational tie. I have faith in you.

Today, life is too short for me to be angry at you for anything, like I am not angry at my mother anymore for her unfairness, her treachery when I was a little girl, because she probably went through the same thing I lived. Her submission toward my father. I accepted the abandonment and the rejection I went through with my father and with your father. I did not want to reproduce the same schema, but it is what I did, because I was asleep, I wasn't listening to life enough. I hope you will break the turning wheel, because I could not.

I do not want to be scared of the reactions of others, which keeps me from living and put me in a submissive state, or I give everything I have and lose myself in my own life because I forget myself completely. I have a right to be human with my defects and qualities.

 You have a right to choose to talk with me.

You have a right to see how you feel in your heart when you think about me, anger, hatefulness, hurt (past), eh well, you can continue or stop, only you can decide. Surely there is a bit of love, I don't believe having only been cruelty in your life, surely there are some good moments too, I hope.

Me, I do not want to live all that. I simply want to feel good with myself. And you, what do you choose? Do your think our self love each other, and our egos kill us slowly, keeping us from each other by continuously bringing back our emotions from the past, when life should be in the present moment.

 Do you think I deserve what you are doing to me, do you think you deserve what you are doing to yourself, do you think I deserve what I am doing to myself, do you think you deserve what I am doing to you, WELL NO! Because I say no to all that. I do not deserve this and you neither, because whatever I inflict myself, you go through and vice versa. It hurts and it serves nothing. I choose to give myself time, to feel at peace toward you, if you'd like. Thank you for being there for me before and to stay with me, if you want to.

 I love you.

I decided to keep living simply. Whenever you are ready, have a good journey

Having to translate it really forced my nose into it and into my emotions...

Something in my throat, feeling both hopeful and disgusted. I still feel like I am painted like the abuser though... I understand she thinks I am punishing her for her past, and it is on me, I haven't really explained anything yet, was just trying to clean my inside mess... I gave her back her blame after she wrote me I kept hurting her, and mixed the past in all this, and now she comes back painting me as the one who is hurt and cannot let go and is blaming everyone while she takes full responsibility for herself, when all I have done is search for my peace through all this anger..
There is many mixed signals in this letter, knowing the background.

For the background: my father did block me on facebook many moons ago, and we talked about it, I understood why (I was an a**hole to some of his conspirators friends), he understood why (it hurt, but wanted to save our relationship because we don't see eyes to eyes on many political things), we both decided we didn't care much about Facebook and still love each other, and want to be there for each other.
 
All she wrote about my grandmother going though what my mother went through and worst are my words, that I gave my mother, to help her see more clearly because she was blaming my grandmother for a lot of things and ended up throwing her out of her house. Literally. Grandma went on vacation at my mother's sister and my mother told her she couldn't come back and sent all her things afterwards. Grandma didn't know when she lift initially... So not exactly a soft move.

They have a way to twist our heads in all directions, keeping us from seeing straight, don't they?

I don't recognize myself at all in this letter... I do not punish people. I understand she was hurt by me leaving. I do. But to say this is punishment because of my anger from the past is not understanding what happened, nor taking responsibility for the crisis she had and the rage she threw at me when I was at her house, and I don't feel like she wants to hear my side. From this letter, I get the sense she just wants me to come back and act like nothing happened? Without really talking about it? An invitation to a blank slate, with no invitation to talk about the present.

Like : you are punishing me and yourself, so let's stop and not talk about it, you mean punisher ! Look how much I love you, despite your anger and pain and punishment! We don't deserve this, especially me, I want to be happy, with or without you, but come back and act like nothing happen to prove you can stop the wheel of abuse ! ...
This is exaggerated, but this is how I feel about it right now.

Will sleep on it.

All insights are welcome.

 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Ain't it interesting how she mention submission and not wanting to lose her power so often?

It struck me.

I don't ask for power, and I don't think anyone would describe me as manipulative, because I truly don't, I am interested in others, their emotions, and my main drive is usually to help and support, not to boss around and manipulate...

This is a very good case of : it says a lot more about her than about me... Manipulation, fear of being powerless, submitted... It is a theme that comes back often on this board.

[zachira]

Remember the key to evaluating relationships is to look at the actions over time. Abusers use words to manipulate and control other people. There is so much to unpack in this letter from your mom. It feels like you are left confused and more unsettled rather than soothed in any way by this letter.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Remember the key to evaluating relationships is to look at the actions over time. Abusers use words to manipulate and control other people. There is so much to unpack in this letter from your mom. It feels like you are left confused and more unsettled rather than soothed in any way by this letter.

Yes. I am trying to detach myself from it. To see the illness. I know it's not about me. I am just deeply unsure about my next move. I was about to send her a letter to propose family therapy. Had my brother go through it, and he said it was a nice letter, that I stayed within myself, he didn't sense blame, just openness... And now I cannot send it because her letter changed things !

So yeah ... Am trying to stay detached. I am not sure there is even a point in going through our last crisis anymore. It is quite clear, from what I have learned here and through raising my awareness of the family dynamics, that it wouldn't change anything.

I see more and more wisdom to Notwendy's words, how one has to stay true to their own ethic.

I just have to figure out my ethic now...

I realize moving forward with a BPD is easy since they always restart the slate whenever it goes messy... Even if the abuse doesn't stop.

Lots of thoughts going in my head. Will pause it. Enjoy my afternoon with my children who just woke from their nap. And will wait a night. Let's see what my dreams tell me.

Thank you Zachira for your fast reply. Yes, this letter did leave me more confused than soothed.

I understand though, that she has absolutely no idea who I am, what I have been doing and what happened, and will probably never understand, even if I'd be wiling to sit with her for hours to explain it... Also, I didn't really tell her either.. 

[zachira]

You might want to consider having some of your family members come to some of your individual sessions with your therapist. This way the therapist represents your best interests and does not have to represent the best interests of all parties. It can be similar to the difference between hiring your own lawyer versus hiring a lawyer for the whole family with the disordered people doing everything to manipulate and control the processes as the bills just get bigger and bigger with nothing resolved.

[GaGrl]

The overall tone of the letter is, to me "off." Too much discussion of you having power over her, of letting go of the past.

I didn't see any genuine statement of "I did this to you..." with a sincere apology.

[Notwendy]

It seems this letter is all about her. What you did to her, she's going to live her best life no matter what you do. Her feelings are the topic.

"I'm sorry that this happened to you" "It's not what I wished" as if it just happened and she had nothing to do with it?

I also think this is probably the best she can do in terms of some sort of apology, because to say she's sorry for what she did would elicit shame on her part.

The letter feels "off" because, if her thinking is disordered, it would be that way.

This is a lot more than I have ever heard from my BPD mother. She has alluded to maybe not doing the best she could when I was a teen, but that's about as much as she can do.

On your part, it's up to you how to respond, if at all but I think it's important to not expect an empathetic apology from someone who can't do that. I also would not try to JADE back. Trying to correct her saying things like "you are punishing her" is just fuel to the drama. Don't pick up the drama bait. She sees/thinks like she does.

If you wish to be NC, then don't reply. If you want to reply, I think a brief "Hi Mom, thank you for the letter. I am glad you are taking care of yourself. I am doing fine too love _____". As you can see, I made it about her first and also didn't get into drama.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Notwendy ... You know what ? You made me realize something. I read the letter from my own perspective. But looking at it from hers, and considering the last word she heard from me was the letter I sent and shared here, on this very board... Her letter is incredibly selfish.

She doesn't even ask me how I am doing !

At this point, it's almost ridiculous... Now I see the distorsion. She doesn't care at all about me, she still thinks I am punishing her despite the nature of what I shared.

I am not even angry. You just lifted me from the fog. I see the illness. Now I have to decide, I guess, if it is workable or not, if I can and want to manage it or not, considering I have young children.

Much to think about.

[Notwendy]

I have just learned - when I speak to my mother- to focus on her, her feelings, etc. I don't share much about me, not sure she could even connect to someone else's feelings. Sometimes expressing hurt feelings to her results in her even mocking us, so it's not worth trying.

However, my children are grown. It's up to them if they want to be in contact with her or not. They understand what is going on with her. When they were little, my Dad was around and they enjoyed spending time with him. BPD mother held it together mostly when they were little. The situation became more difficult when they were adolescents and she began to enlist them as emotional caretakers and I had some boundaries but now, they can manage their own.

For you, you do need to consider your young children and what is best for them.

[beatricex]

Hi Riv3rw0lf,
I'm really sorry you received this crazy making letter.  Thank you for coming here and for sharing it for comfort.  That is one thing to do with it, another thought I have is burn it.   

Like others have mentioned, I don't like the tone, I don't like that it's all about her, and I don't like that you're the master punisher (all projections, of course).

 
b

[Turkish]

She sees you as herself.

Overall a bit Waifish ("rescue me"), but I also agree it's likely the closest you'll get to an apology. At least it's something.

The question is, do you want to engage with this at all?

[Riv3rW0lf]

Turkish, yes, she does. Which is why my having children and taking care of them was the first time she showed pride. I think, it meant for her she was also a good mother if that makes sense? It wasn't truly about me. I believe she sees me as an extension of herself. She thinks I have the same inner life she does. Compared to my brother, when she talks with me, it is always pure projections. There is no room for me in the relationship. Almost like everything I do, she assumes she did too, somehow... Even though she didn't.

This morning, I came to terms with the fact that, indeed, there is absolutely nothing I can share with her about myself. Because no matter what I say, positive of negative, the only things she hears are those that are true for her. She has no capacity to see things from my perspective and I cannot expect her to. This is who she is, the illness that she decided not to manage.

And so, I am thinking of answering something very simple, along the lines of what Notwendy suggested:

Hi, I got your letter, and I read it. I am relieved to see you are taking care of yourself and your needs. I wish, for you, only peace, always had, always will.  

I do not feel good calling her mom, nor telling her I love her
 But those words would be genuine. I do not wish to re-enter contact with her, and this morning, I see her letter as a way to enter no contact to very limited contact in a state of peace, instead of anger and blame.

I felt bad leaving things as they were. I wished for no contact, but I would have liked it to be done with peace, instead of the tone I had in my last letter.

It seems like I have an opportunity here to let her know I wish her well, without going into details about what I am going through, and maintaining limited contact.

It is quite clear to me now that having a bordeline mother is also having to grieve the opportunity to let her know what the hurtful things she does are. There is no room for that, and no point to it. I am better off processing all those myself, coming to terms with my truth, knowing she would never be able to validate me anyway. I truly have to parent myself.

I know I am not ready to see her, that is quite clear.

Her birthday is also fast approaching, so something to think about. Will I wish her good birthday or remain silent... I'd like to keep a door open to complete no contact, as I am still unsure what I feel deep within about all this...

All insights are welcome.

[Notwendy]

Your reply is in the same manner as how I communicate to my mother. When we speak, the topic seems to be how she deserves to take care of herself. I basically validate her feelings. I do not share mine. I keep our conversations about things I would speak to anyone about- maybe the news, the weather, give her updates on the kids that are not personal to them- things like " yes, they are at work today"- things like that.

I realized that my mother sees things through her projections. There's no point in trying to share the "who" that I am, because she can't see beyond that. It's not that I am hiding or manipulating the conversation, it's just that it doesn't work. She can't see it. Validation of her feelings is about all there is to say.

And she likes that. I have wondered why her FOO showers her with compliments all the time. It sounds so strange. I think we all like to be complimented, but it's so over the top, I'd be embarrassed if someone complimented me like they do. To me, it sounds patronizing. I think they have learned how to speak to her in a way that soothes her.

I also feel my mother perceives my raising children as her accomplishment. I have even heard her repeat something I shared with her to others as if she did it herself. For example if I had told her I drove carpool that day, I've heard her say " I remember when I drove the carpool" but I don't think she did. I remember other mothers taking me to activities and Dad taking me to school or riding the bus. I only recall a few times of riding in a car with my mother.

I understand she wants to be seen as a good mother. Who wouldn't be? Consider that if someone has a poor sense of self, they would rely on external validation. I think one reason you won't get a full apology is that to consider something that didn't validate their self image would be very difficult for someone who has trouble maintaining that sense of self.

Like you though, I can't say what isn't true to me, so I try to say what I can say that is validating. It also feels strange to me to call her  "Mom" but I do call her that out of respect when I speak to her. She would feel disrespected if I addressed her otherwise.
When not in her presence, I refer to her by her first name. That seems more emotionally accurate to me than "Mom".

[Riv3rW0lf]

I have wondered why her FOO showers her with compliments all the time. It sounds so strange. I think we all like to be complimented, but it's so over the top, I'd be embarrassed if someone complimented me like they do. To me, it sounds patronizing. I think they have learned how to speak to her in a way that soothes her.

The first week I spent in her house, and really everytime she was over for a visit, that's what I'd do too. I would witness myself doing that and wonder why, literally as it was happening.

I showered her in compliments, how amazing she is, with a big heart and often went to say things I absolutely do not feel nor truly believe, just to appease her and buy me time. It is a defense mechanism. Soothing her to keep her rage in check, somehow.

The last time, because I stayed so long, this strategy exhausted me, and the second I stopped the compliments is when everything started to derail. I had to tell her not to give a specific toy to my baby, because it was dangerous, and it was all downhill from there.

So I understand what you mean, and what they do. My brother does the same. He came for diner at her house while I was there and he said to his wife : "You see? My mother has everything we need, she is a fruitful tree of life, with so much love to give! " Because she had alcool in her house that my other brother had forgotten there. It sounded very fake, but my mother was loving it..

There is a child-like feel to it. Like how I tell my three years old "good job! This is very beautiful!" On every drawing she does and come to show me. And now I see that sometimes, she doesn't need to show it off, she internalized it and I can hear her say to herself that she likes her drawing. It's like my mother never internalized that for herself, and is still looking for the world to provide it to her.

In small bursts, it is doable. But it is hard to sustain in the long run. And for me, because I do it out of fear, I often say things I don't truly feel. Later on, I feel bad, like I betrayed myself. I value authenticity, and showering her with compliments make me feel bad about myself, because I am lying, not being true to my deep thoughts. It's not that I want to berate her either, I just don't like who I become when I am with her, the people pleaser, lying to the both of us about how amazing she is, how beautiful our relationship is.

I would need to ground myself, and stay within myself. It is one thing to validate her own feelings and I see value in that, and I think I could manage it. But it is another to tell her she is good and amazing and a good mother and a good grandmother, when I don't feel this way. It is a fine line to walk. One I am still wondering if I even can walk.

[Notwendy]

The child like compliments reminded me- my mother does this too!

I have heard her say "Your father was such a good boy today!" and I thought what, do you think he is a child - because I don't speak to adults this way.

She also said one day when I was doing things for her "I told my FOO what a good girl you were today"

These felt so icky.

But maybe they were actual compliments. Her FOO doesn't call her "good girl" but they also have superfluous compliments for what I think are ordinary tasks. Sure, I appreciate someone thanking me for cooking dinner, but if it's hamburgers, and they said it was amazing and marvelous and the best dinner ever,  I'd think that was strange.

[WalkbyFaith]

Riverwolf, I agree with the others -- this letter seems to say 1) anything I did wrong was far in the past, not in the present, and 2) I really only care about my own feelings and well-being, you can take it or leave it.

I've noticed that my mother, too, will apologize for what she did many years ago, but refuse to acknowledge fault in the recent past or the present. It's all blamed on my "faulty" perception.

If this letter was from my own mom, it would be a prime opportunity for me to say, I'm done! and not feel bad about it.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I decided to write her back the answer I had thought of :

I am relieved to see you are taking care of yourself and do not feel anger. I wish for you the peace and happiness you want. Always had, always will.

This is most likely the last answer and email I will send her. I will not engage in further drama and I will not accept the projections for myself.

I need to think of my children, of being the best mother I can be for them, and being in contact with my mother is too costly and it keeps me from being the best mother I can be.

I am doing this for my children, for my husband, for my family, the family I have chosen and built for myself.  And above all, I am doing this for myself.

I am not ending contact out of spite and blame this time, but with peace in my heart.

Because this letter showed me nothing has changed, and nothing will change. And I cannot deal with her illness right now, not at this very moment in my life. Maybe later on, I will try and manage it, when she gets older and more frail. But right now, she is fine and I deserve my peace too.

Thank you, to all of you and to this board for all the wisdom and help. Truly, I could not have made it here today, feeling peaceful through the turmoil, without your help.

 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Against my better judgement, I decided to listen to my big brother. His point was : "you should still send her the letter you sent me, to help her connect the dots, state your truth and give her your pieces." I felt he thought I was a bit unfair by cutting contact without giving her "a final chance". So I rewrote the letter, and send her, with a hidden copy for my brother.

Take my word on it, he wrote me back that he thought my letter was fair, with no blame and that while it did not open the door to a relationship in the present, it did open the door to something in the future, with solutions to go forward. I validated her pain, and clearly stated my truth and that I would be open to familial therapy with her. I did not JADE and the main answer was : "From the letter you sent me, I don't feel there is a place for the real me in our relationship. I'd be open to meet with you and a professional to facilitate our communication, and help us see each other for who we are."

I did not expect empthy, and I did expect things to blow up, and I vowed I would not answer her again. And they did blow up, and part of me still almost wrote back to defend myself ! I did not.

But because I will not have, ever, a chance to answer, I decided to answer her here, to process.

Note that I am now truly no contact... I forwarded my mother's answer to my brother. I now feel I can step out of the relationship without feeling guilty about it.

The road to no contact was a bit bumpy, but I made it, feeling peaceful with this decision.

Note that my brother still defended her by saying he was seeing some validation and love in her letter. Do you agree with him? That I should turn a blind eye to the abuse because there is love? This is getting ridiculous.

Her letter (bold):

No it wasn't just about the toy. This was the break. I told you twice before that that I was not your punching bag.

This is likely a reference to an event during the lunch prior to her first crisis. My son was eating and she kept making him laugh, which worried me for the choking. I asked her to stop, and she took it personal, her face changed. And I felt guilty (PTSD creeping in), he was barely eating and there was not a lot of risk, so I told her, it's ok, I am a bit stressed out. And she answered me : yeah because I am not your punching bag !

In hindsight, my mistake there was to go back on my request and say I was sorry. I didn't scream, but yes, I was a bit snappy. I was stressed but I wasn't releasing this stress on her. We all get stressed, we are human. Sometimes my way of saying things is a bit snappy when I am stressed, but usually, people around me understand that it is not against them, and they give me a break while I calm myself down, and I do the same for others. She keeps saying how human she is and how I have to accept her with all her display of emotions, but she does not allow me the same space at all. This is abuse.

The first week was amazing and slowly, it started happening.

You were missing your husband and the stress from buying a house and selling the other infected our relationship, simply. I tried to do more, but it was never enough to satisfy this raging hole you felt. Like you daughter was saying : "did I break you hearth mommy?", your pain was tangible, she could feel it, this hurt you hide. And you discharged it on me, because it was easier. I am like a sponge. You hit me and I said nothing and I became less attentive, less receptive, more tired, and I didn't say it.

The first week was going well because I spent all me attention on her. I literally have text messages from me to my husband telling him how I don't like that I cannot give attention to my children, that she needs all of it. How I feel I have to constantly tell her how amazing she is and how there doesn't seem to be any place left for my children. My daughter started eating less and less. The comment about my broken hearth was her asking me if it broke my heart that she wasn't eating. I am not sure why she started saying that, but she was three and a half ? She is still figuring things out and language, how is that an argument to my mother's view? This is crazy-making.

Yes, I was stressed out, but it was a happy stress, I was coming back to my home province. She is quite literally flipping the table on me.

You isolated yourself in the basement and we didn't talk about it. I was scared of you and didn't stand up to you, like I was scared of your father, of his rigidity, of his dry reflexions, his rejection, his logic, how he is always right. I saw all this coming and did nothing to stop it. I never imaginer it would go this far.

How could we have talk? Literally every time I tried she would scream at me or give me the silent treatment and tell me she wouldn't listen! I have texts to my husband, again, as proof I tried and how anxious I was getting. And again, the most frequent accusation of all : I am like my father and we have no emotions. Seriously. Is that what I did wrong? Having my freaking father for father ? She is the one who made children with the man ffs.

After you came back from your father's house, you even told us all we did for you was not necessary, that you could have taken the plane and organize yourself. You rejected everything I did for you. This was your thank you for me helping you out, but I understood, you were so hurt, and I knew you were not seeing things clearly. For the TV too, it didn't work. Mom come down and repair it, ordering me around. This is how you treated me toward the end. Those are my facts.

Facts... Interesting choice of words. I remember saying :" Well, I could have taken the plane, but I am so very grateful because being here made it all much more easier. Thank you so much again for your help." ... I did. I know I said thank you. And what I do remember clearly and texted my husband is that something was wrong with her when I came back from my father. I think, us leaving for a week to look for a house, the separation from my children, it triggered her illness. And I remember coming back, feeling happy and relieved, I had a house, everything was well, and she was different, and it kept on getting worst and worst.

When I came back from my father, she started questioning my daughter about how much fun she had, I felt the competition, anger and jealousy on her part.

As for the TV, I did ask if she has changed something and how we could repair it and she started ignoring me, which I said : how nice it is to be ignored like this. Yes I was passive aggressive, but I was getting seriously exhausted from all the abuse, silent treatment and crisis. She started screaming upstairs about how she wasn't my slave. I left shortly after that .

Could I have handle the tv episode better? Yes. But clearly it was a matter of time before everything would explode again.


 You always refused my help and when you take it, you break it and throw it away. It has always been like that. I accept it today but do you see it?

Because everything she gives me come with strings attached. So yes, I became VERY independant, VERY quick when I realized that. As for the help in November : I PAID HER to make sure she couldn't hold it against me! Yes I did, and I don't regret it, because I freaking knew she would tell me things like that and guiltrip me !  Ho hi, hello angry child Riverworld. Processing this will feel good.

 Me, I was scared of you, of your reactions and this is my problem, my lack of self estim. You, so strong, decided, solid, with words that break me, a bit like your father. And me, too small for you, and I don't want to go through it again.

There we have it : the source of the competition. She is a young child and she cannot see me as her daughter. I sense jealousy, she is waify, so so very small. I am so very angry right now. My inner child is out of herself, this is the woman that raised me, and she resents my strength. She abandoned me, left me to fend for myself in the house of the pedophile she chose for her boyfriend and now she even found a way to use my strength against me? What the actual hell?

Concerning said pedophile, I listened to your brothers whom told me to wait. I am sorry for this, I hope you know it.

Never at fault, is she?

And do you believe that not giving me news from you, from your children, that this is not punishing me? Keeping the information because you know, deep within you, and you said it yourself before that when you'd have children that I could see them. I know you remember, it is the past but promises not kept, expectations you created in another time that you are not keeping, and I understood that you were punishing me, hurting me where it hurts the most unconsciously, that's what I believe. It's ok now, I am letting go. And I thank you for the time I could spend with them, which I will keep engraved in my heart. I send her so much love because when I read this again I cry.

First of all : before meeting my husband, I didn't even want children, so not sure when I said all that and made promises, plus, we weren't even close. Then, I moved to another province and literally just came back... So again, completely unsure what is happening there. Promises not kept. What the actual... They are MY children and being a grandmother is not a freaking right, it is a privilege ! First you have to stop abusing the mother of your grandchildren, simple rule that she doesn't seem to grasp.

I don't even feel sorry for her, when did I become so cruel? I feel so very dark right now... but it is ok, I know I need to keep processing.


I understood that our relationship is very similar to the one I had with your father, expectations, promises not kept, beautiful words, just wind (it hurts), I feel abandoned rejected. Today I see. I accept it and I do not want to play this morbid game.

Bait, bait, bait.

 I understand too that all the pain I've had and kept within with the separation, that you lived them too, my alcoolisme, you felt that I was rejecting you in your little girl's heart. But it's me I rejected, not you.

Seriously ? Again, about her? Only her? What the hell am I? A witness to her pain? A figurant? Just someone passing by that happened to be hit by her pain, which was the worst of all?

 And the fact that your father had another child with another woman during this time didn't help the situation. I understand that you wanted to be a part of his new family and that I was what made it impossible for you. I was the wheel that wouldn't turn right.

What is that even about? My father had my little sister when I was 10years old, long after the damages were done, she wasn't even drinking at that moment. I do remember her trying to have another child with my stepfather at that point though. I don't even know what she is talking about. Is she somehow trying to blame my father again?

You developped a great strength that permits you to succeed everything you developpedz despite the hurt and storms, you are a real strength of nature.

I legiltt think she is talking about herself at that point.
 
I know you didn't have it easy but what matters if that today, you are happy with your family.

Indeed.

Today, I am proud that I went through it, that I didn't stay an alcoholic even though I am still very emotive. I am less rational than you are and I find it hard to say what I think and to say no.

Ok, sure.

All my life, I ran away and hid, to see if someone would find me, but no one came. Thankfully I found myself.

She is calming herself down? Like putting all her rage into me somehow enabled her to paint herself white again.

I am proud of you, of the woman you became. Take care of yourself and of your family.

I love you xxx

At this point, it feels like the narcissistic end that Dr. Ramani talks about in her videos. Ending all the abuse with a nice touch to make you doubt and wanting for more.

I wish I could answer :

I am proud of the woman I became too. Gotta love dad for that. How he encouraged me to compose music, to draw, to process all my pain through arts. I would have been totally lost without him sending me tools along the way. He truly did his best, and always welcomed my anger, my blame, even when he wasn't the problem. I love my father and my children love their grandfather and his wife. An amazing, beautiful soul who only provide love, empathy. Never judging, a truly welcoming person. Love them both today, and I am grateful I have them to see me for who I really am. The o ly family I have left that is free of abuse.

That's just how cruel I feel right now. But I will just not answer and delete her email. So done with all of it.

And I know, I go into A LOT of details with this post. But I really needed to write all of this down somewhere  and be understood by another human being... Especially with my brother making excuses for her again. He is neutral, doesn't blame me, but still doesn't see the abuse? So weird! He just focus on the last part of the letter, and not on all the rest. I guess this is what makes the narcissists and borderlines so very strong. The perfect balance of rage, blame, self pitty and "validation".

[Notwendy]

This response made my skin crawl when reading it. Ick.

It's from victim perspective ( she's the victim ). I would have expected this kind of response from my mother if I got into something emotional with her. I eventually decided it was completely ineffective to do this and so I don't even try.

Now that you have given it a try- and see the results, I hope you can feel that you can make the best decision for yourself from this point on.

[zachira]

Your mother seems to hold on to an endless list of grudges and things she blames you for, which all sound like you did not give her the narcissistic supply she was craving at the time. My heart hurts reading all the terrible things your mother said to you. It seems that going no contact with your mother and setting the boundary with people who are in contact with your mother that they are not to talk to you about her (ideally not give her any information about you which is a difficult boundary to enforce). What do you think will help you to feel less impacted by all the cruel hurtful things your mother said?
Many years ago, I asked my mother if I was an unplanned pregancy. I was curious as to why she treated me so badly and suspected I was an unwanted child being so close in age to my sister who was the golden child and the oldest child. She told me: "Do you think I wanted to have two babies so close togother? My doctor told me I had an inverted uterus, and it would take a long time to get pregnant, and I got pregnant on the first try." Mom seemed angry as she told me this, and there was no mention of being glad to have me as her daughter.To me, this story illustrates how a big part of having BPD is never forgetting anything that does not work out the way she/he wants it to, and a big part of the emotional dysregulations are the endless list of grudges and disappointments from imagined abandonments. Since you are a primary target of your mother's imagined abandonments, it does not seem that there is any way you can ever have any kind of relationship with her whatsoever. What do you think?
Hope you are feeling better soon. I can imagine how hurt and angry you must be feeling and how much you want to move on to feeling better.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I reread it, and I don't know if it's because I translated it, or if it's because it's been a few hours, but I don't see it the same way, not as bad, the letter.

Is it bad?

I think what really triggered me is because it feels so distorted.

No mention of the silence treatment, of her judging my body, of how she told me out of anger, that I couldn't be trusted, that I didn't understand them, that I didn't have any emotions.

Her eyes, judging my every moves with my children, not letting. Me any space to be just with them when she was there.

Her constant needs for reassurance and how, when she doesn't get her way, I become the worst person in the universe. Like you said Zachira, it feels like I only live to provide her with narcissistic supply, and when I fail to meet her needs, she flips on me.

The letter in itself is not that bad, is it?

It triggered my inner child though, I can see that now. Her, constantly projecting my father on me. Her, not taking responsibility for being a mother.

I understand what she says, how she was rejecting herself through her alcoolism, and again, I find myself having to be the bigger person, and I think this is what makes it so hard for us. Because we were supposed to be the children. And we didn't get to be that.

If she was anyone else, maybe I'd have been able to keep my cool with this letter. But I felt so unseen again.

Does that make sense?

Am I the one with the anger problem somehow, in a very twisted way? I did have a deep hurt that I was hiding, what she cannot accept is that this pain was my c-PTSD from her emotional abuse, and had nothing to do with my husband and stress of needing to buy a house. She just cannot accept how bad she hurt me, and just how much our relationship is strained, mainly because of her, because I never could attach myself to her safely, and part of me still feel so unease around her. And the only reason this doesn't change is because she keeps abusing me. I could move forward if it wasn't of her current actions. Do I really need her to understand this? I know she never will. Does she really not see any of this? Does she really not understand any of this?  I wrote it down, black on white, in the letter I sent, about the c-PTSD... And she just invalidated it entirely, saying it was just me missing me husband... How can she just do that? Like I said absolutely nothing ?

[lm1109]

Riv3rwolf, so sorry you're going through this. I have to admit that when I read the title of your post I felt a bit of hope for you...since she reached out. The last I checked the board it seemed you were warming up to the idea of reuniting and also hurt that she had not tried to reach out to you. I hoped that maybe she had truly apologized...which now seems crazy because I'm not sure that any BPD can truly apologize. It seems that your mother is willing to take responsibility for certain things..which I suppose is something (more than my mother was willing to do...she denied EVERYTHING and blamed EVERYTHING on me) However, from an outside perspective, I agree with Notwendy, she is painting herself to be the victim. In the email my Mom sent to me she literally used some of the same exact phrases like "I am not your punching bag," "I tried..but it's never enough!,"  "I was scared of you" Interesting...right? Ask little Riv3rwolf if this is how she describes her mother? Because the things that my Mom wrote about ME is how little me describes my abusive mother. Of course I can only speak for myself here...but after I gave it some time I could see that about 90% of what she said to me was purely projections. She swapped roles and tried to convince me that I had been abusing HER...and yet little me(who was an innocent child) clearly remembers the abuse from as young as I have memories. I have been afraid of her my whole life, even when I was an adult, hence the "walking on eggshells" Something that struck me was that she brought up your young daughter asking if she broke your heart. Again...I can only speak from MY experience...but when my son was about that age I caught her saying things
like that to my son...to get him to say things to me that would hurt me. I caught on because it was only after he talked to her...and things that didn't seem normal for a 3 year old to say. The day that I caught her and confronted her and told her it was inappropriate...she flipped out and went to the Emergency Room...my Dad called me to tell me she thought she was having a "heart attack" which was a lie and her way to switch into "hurt little victim" who was being abused by ME because I confronted HER abuse! She was never alone with him again. She simply can't help herself. Of course I am not implying that this is definitely what happened with your Mom but I immediately remembered my own experience and wondered when I read it if she was telling your daughter that YOU were breaking Grandma's heart, or something of that nature and your daughter repeated it. I remember you said that she had said inappropriate things to your brothers kids. It's something my mom would do for leverage so she could bring it up and say "see...even you're kids are upset by you!"or to drive a little wedge...she would say things to him like "Your Mommy is so mean" Of course that's just my own take..and it's very much based on my own experience with my own bpd mom.

I think the thing that struck me the most, however, is HOW MUCH she brought up your Dad! It was VERY telling...in my opinion...that she is still extremely resentful...of him, of his life, of your relationship, etc. I assume that her resentment of him is one of the main poisons in your relationship...and I assume that she will NEVER admit that...and so she will allow you to take the blame. Again...this is only my assumption from the letter and my own experiences with MY Mom...so feel free to disregard any of it if you feel it's off base. My parents are still married...but my Mom HATES my Dad and always has...she openly says things like "Your Dad ruined my life" right in front of him. She could NOT handle me having ANY relationship with him. She also HATED his Mother(my Grandma who I wasn't allowed to see) She would go on and on about how evil she was, how ugly and disgusting she was, etc and then when she got mad at me she would call me by that Grandma's name. She would say things like "Ewww you look just like Grandma K right now" or if she was mad at my Dad then I would get compared to him..."You act like your father", "You treat me the way your father does", etc.

My Mom will do anything to paint herself as the victim and she can NOT have people in her life that will not allow her to be the victim. For me...it was too exhausting to keep sacrificing myself and my TRUTH and little me's TRUTH. In the email that I received from my Mom(the last interaction) she FULLY took down her mask. She blamed me for all of the family problems...took zero accountability for anything...and told me that I am just messed up because I was raped as a teenager. Interesting that she can blame me for ALL of the family problems and yet she had personality disorders, eating disorders, was a teenage mom to a raging alcoholic, was in and out of Juvenile Hall, dropout, etc BEFORE I was born. My Dad was a raging alcoholic BEFORE I was born. BOTH of their Moms were alcoholics BEFORE I was born. Both sides of my family was riddled with addiction, suicides, and abuse...BEFORE I was born. It's called Generational Trauma and I'm the Scapegoat. I'm the PROBLEM because I see the truth and I speak the truth. It seems to me that you're Mom is claiming to be the victim of you speaking the truth about extreme abuse(that SHE didn't protect you from) It seems that her "punishment" is you needing and taking time to process that extreme abuse and heal yourself.

To answer your question about wether or not the letter was that bad...only you can truly answer that...because only you really know her. I don't believe you should feel guilt for speaking truth and healing. Your Mom did take some accountability...so that is a step...I suppose...and maybe the best she can do...and only you can decide if that is enough and if the relationship, and emotional turmoil that comes with it, is worth unraveling and healing. My advice is to continue healing yourself. Honestly, I would take her telling you that she is going to live her best life with or without you as a gift...you are NOT responsible for her or anyone else but yourself and your own children. Processing your abuse and taking time to heal is not just for you but for your kids too. I found it interesting that my request for time to heal and focus on myself and my own kids and my own husband was met with "Fine...Goodbye Forever" and for me...I'm personally coming to terms with forever working for me. But you don't have to close and seal the door shut...you can let her know that you're open to reuniting later...you're entitled to that. Whatever you choose... relationship or not...choose yourself first.

Sending you lots of support 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Im1109,

Thank you for your words, uncovered vulnerable Riverworld and I had a cry.

I re-read her letter in french, and I got triggered again. Most of the anger got lost in translation, the choice of her words were very hard, which like you pointed out, is interesting because she accused me of being the one with hard words, but truthfully I don't feel like this.

Yes, she does describe me like little me would describe her mother. And you raised a really good point that made me truly feel better... I remember the abuse from when I was an innocent child, and I can see, from how my own children are, that I am not the abuser. My daughter is no scared of me, my son comes to me with such joy, they are securely attached. I am not perfect, and yes, I snap sometimes, but I don"t abuse people and I can say sorry with no hidden blame.

Reading her letter, again and again, the end feels more like the glass of water after throwing me in the desert for days. I mean... She discharges all her rage (because the french letter has a lot of rage in it), on me, blames me even for my strength, and then, as she blames me, and adopts the victim perspective, she starts feeling better about herself. So she assumed I now feel bad and jumps back into her prefered role of rescuer. She is a victim-rescuer, and I imagine she internalized the whole triangle within herself.  Which is why she also blames me for not needing her, for my independance. She cannot rescue me, and because of that, she feels small and she resents me for it... That's my take on it right now anyway...

I sent her another final letter... For some reason I cannot keep myself from doing it. And I defending myself (guilty of jading), and called her out on her projections of all the anger she holds against my dad on me. I invited her to have someone else read her letters before sending them to facilitate the communication, reiterated that I would not ever let her intimidate me again with her rage and that I am not what she describes. That to have the privilege to be a grandmother, one first have to treat the mother with calm and respect. And that I am done answering her baits. That if she wants to go to family therapy, we might later (she will never do that, that would break her mask, having someone neutral in the room).

Now the real difficulty for me will be to delete her emails as they come in and not read it...

My husband told me everytime I read her letters, she wins, because my mood changes for the day, sometimes the week. He told me how well I was looking those past few weeks, and how all of that seemed to go to hell after she sent me her first email. And he is right. This is the main issus... So much energy I spend on recuperating, trying to understand, rethinking if what she describes truly is what happened, maybe part of it... But like you said... They use 10% truth to reel us in, and then 90% projection to make us doubt ourselves and feel guilty, ashamed and confused.

Writing all this, I truly wonder why I keep trying and why I'd want her in my children's life. I don't know if she said the heart thing to my daughter, or if I said that out of FOG. Truly, I wasn't myself when I was there, and I don't like the mother I am when I am around my own mother. I lose myself. And I can see myself losing myself from within, and I start feeling so confuse. And I guess, writing this I can see how no contact is probably the best course of action for me, to be the best mother I can be and have a bit of peace.

My brother reeled me in this time... And made me doubt about the abuse. I don't think I should discuss this whole thing with him anymore, that was probably a lack of judgment on my end. I can see now that he has his own dynamic with her and within the family, and he doesn't mean to hurt me, or to reel me in, it just happens. So a boundary of not discussing her with him will be needed...

I will sleep. I felt better reading your answer Im1109. A lot of it resonated, made the angry child be heard, made her move away to uncover her more vulnerable counterpart. And she is the one I need to heal.

I had hope. Hope is what crushes me, reeling me in everytime. And you are right... It is a gift : she will live her best life, with or without me. And the more I try to make her see me, the more pain I seem to cause her anyway. I am one of her main triggers, because I was always closer with my father, because I loved him and because she never could triangulate me against him. So maybe, in the end, it truly is better for us both to go our separate ways.

[Notwendy]

Am I the one with the anger problem somehow, in a very twisted way?

This idea stood out to me because one of my mother's family members made the assumption that I was the one with the "anger problem" and this changed my relationship with that person. They judged me solely on what my mother had told them about me, not ever asking to hear my perspective. While I am still cordial with them, I don't know what they truly think about me.

So what if you are angry? I think you have reason to be angry. Anger is a feeling. An "anger problem" is if someone acts on their anger in a destructive way- to themselves, to property, to someone else.

I've felt anger, but have not ever acted on it in the way my mother has. I think this is why that assumption felt so unfair.

Anger, itself, isn't a bad thing but something to be careful about because, you don't want to dwell on it, hold on to a resentment or act out inappropriately with it. But also we don't have to ignore it or judge ourselves negatively for a feeling.

My husband told me every time I read her letters, she wins, because my mood changes for the day, sometimes the week.

A 12 step slogan for this is "letting someone live in your thoughts rent free". These letters and your difficulty resisting writing back are part of the dynamics between the two of you. Ironically, while this kind of drama is something we are trying to avoid, I have realized this is also a part of what has connected us. Now that there's less drama between me and my mother ( as I won't participate ) there's also a lonely feeling of disconnect. This is not a natural feeling. Humans are emotionally wired to connect with their mothers. We have to be. As infants we depend on this for our survival. If we have   a disordered parent, we may connect to them in the way that we can.

I still sometimes feel an urge to call my mother up and try to connect with her emotionally. I just have learned it's not effective and the result would be that I'd feel upset about it.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Notwendy,

Thank you for bringing me back from part of the fog again. I woke up this morning with so much self-hatred. And I find it hard to get out of it today. I was doing well, and now this feels like a huge step back. It is part of the process, but part of me hates that I answered her, and it helps to be reminded it is normal. I attached to her the only way I could. Do you have a good book of the 12steps that could help me deal with this addiction? Because defending myself to her does feel like an addiction, somehow. I cannot keep myself from doing it, from re-reading emails. It cannot just be a lack of self discipline, I have plenty of that.

And you are right about anger. I made peace with anger, or so I thought, but somehow her email made me doubt myself, yet again. I know I didn't discharge my emotions on her despite what she says. The thing is ANY display of emotions, as mellow as they are, and even by someone "in control", someone who is talking assertively, or who is clearly sad : she takes it personnal and feels like a punching back. A lot of times in my life, I've been called "self righteous" because I have a very calm demeanor, I am "in control of my emotions", I have a tornado within, but I stay silent, often barely moving, and people would blame me for looking "so perfect". I learned to keep my emotions in check from a very young age. Any display of it resulted in an angry woman adult lashing out at me. And her, telling I use her as a punching bag, again, because I have emotions, brought me right back there. And now, this calm demeanor, this strength and control I developped are used against me somehow too. It is so messed up.

I have no idea how to not engage emotionally with her and I read your posts often, and I find so much wisdom, inner strength, and control in them, a healthy emotional detachement. And I wish I could go there too, in this state of healthy peace while staying in contact, but I have no idea how.

I think I am the golden child that let her down? Is that possible? Her only daughter with whom she wished for so much proximity against my father, and because I loved him, because he was safer than her, I went toward him every chance I got and she could never forgive me for it. Like she could never forgive me. My independance, everything I am reminds her we are different and not close at all. And seeing me triggers her right back to her abandonment, making it impossible for her to have a relationship. Every word I say, every small : no thank you but I do not want your old coat. is taken to heart. Everytime I see her, if I do anything else than tell her how great she is, there is a crisis.

The reason I find it so hard is because in my ethic, I also don't like turning my back on my mother, who is getting older every year. And I know it is a gift, that she will be living her best life with or without me. What I don't know is if I can live with myself with this decision?

I don't judge no contact, at all. Rationally, I know it is a very personal decision which varies with the trauma, the dynamics of the relationship between the two indivuals, and a lot of factors.

And for myself, I feel completely torn. I always wonder if I truly am trying enough.

Or am I just addicted to the drama?

[Notwendy]

I understand your feelings about not going NC with your mother. I didn't want to do that either.

I have been the scapegoat child, but there was a time where the golden child rebelled and I was achieving things that gave BPD mother bragging rights. I have always been close to the golden child regardless of our different positions. I had no intentions of showing them up and in fact, I didn't. Parents preferred the GC, but I became a potential source of validating BPD mom and it appeared I was in the fold. Seeing that I had a chance to become "good enough" for them, I became very compliant with them.

I had assumed the relationship with my mother was "my fault". She blamed me for it as well as the issues she had with my father. I assumed that once I left for college, things would be better. It appeared from the outside that they were.

I didn't spend enough time around my parents to see the whole picture until later. BPD mother managed to hold it together around my kids. When Dad's health began to change, and I spent more time around them, I saw a different picture.  I am not a psychiatric nurse, but I think being one on one alone in the house with my mother was similar to being assigned at one. I realize it was a stressful time for her but this was not something I had seen since I was a kid, only this time, my parents were not able to convince me this was "normal" behavior and that it was my fault. As an adult, I knew it was not, and it was overwhelming. I didn't have the skills or training to deal with this.

I can't recommend a specific book on 12 steps because, I did the whole thing. There were issues in my marriage too. It was a marriage counselor who told me I was contributing to these issues by being co-dependent and needed to attend a 12 step group. I also got lucky in that it seemed the universe matched me with the perfect sponsor. She was tough and honest. I then attended an ACA group for adult children of alcoholics and dysfunction. People think these groups are for alcohol and other addictions but the dysfunction in a family with a BPD parent is similar, and so they work well for that too.

To me the addiction model works well with our "addiction" to engaging in dysfunctional communications and addictions to drama. I honestly don't think I could have done it as well on my own with a book. It took a sponsor and her version of tough love as well as meetings. Also practice. We don't do this perfectly. We can fall into familiar patterns again but the difference is we recognize it. You are seeing it too.

There's a "hole story" about this. You see the hole. With practice, it get better.

I
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost.
I am hopeless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.

II
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I'm in the same place.
But it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.

III

I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in -it’s a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.


IV
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.

V
I walk down another street.

by Portia Nelson

[lm1109]

Riv3rwolf..I truly hope I didn't fuel any fires with my post. Having read the thread all the way through...I could sense your guilt and blame of yourself and hoped to make you see that the guilt is not yours to carry. I understand the urge to respond and defend yourself...I feel like I'm still finding myself defending myself in my head and having that conversation in my head SIX months later. It's unimaginably painful to be so misunderstood by the people that should love us unconditionally. I gave up on having the conversation with them, however, because I can see now that there is NOTHING I can say to make them truly see me...simply because they are NOT capable of seeing without distortions!

Am I the one with the anger problem somehow, in a very twisted way?

This idea stood out to me because one of my mother's family members made the assumption that I was the one with the "anger problem" and this changed my relationship with that person. They judged me solely on what my mother had told them about me, not ever asking to hear my perspective. While I am still cordial with them, I don't know what they truly think about me.

So what if you are angry? I think you have reason to be angry. Anger is a feeling. An "anger problem" is if someone acts on their anger in a destructive way- to themselves, to

[be. As infants we depend on this for our survival. If we have   a disordered parent, we may connect to them in the way that we can.

Agreed...the anger, the pain, the grief, the need for connection..it is ALL a normal reaction to our lived experience. I am also finding the 12 steps immensely helpful. I found a group in my area and it has been really good for me. I am working through my own disordered thinking...because I don't believe ANY of us can come out of growing up with Disordered and Alcoholic parents unscathed. The only advice I have to give is to be gentle with yourself and understand that what you are feeling is a NORMAL reaction to lifelong crazy making. It's NORMAL to want to defend yourself when someone inaccuratly paints you black. It's NORMAL to want a mother and to still love her...even when she has hurt you. We are humans and wired this way. The 12 steps are helping me to surrender and know that I can't change them...only myself. I can't make them understand...they simply aren't capable...making them try is like beating a dead horse...so to speak. I remind myself of this often when I am ready to hit send on something I wrote in defense of myself...it will only be distorted. ** I remind myself that I will NOT allow people who don't know me(or themselves) tell ME who I am!

I can tell you honestly...that I believe that there is no...easy fix. No Contact is NOT easy...the pain does NOT just go away. I am in a state of VERY complicated grief...Mothers Day was hard, Father's Day was hard, my Birthday was extremely hard. When I am in No Contact I feel pain, I feel unseen, rejected, etc. When I am IN contact I feel pain, unseen, rejected, etc. The goal for me is taking the space to untangle my own mess without THEIR mess, abuse, and projections mixing in! Someone told me to stop reaching for forgiveness...first get to acceptance. I think maybe once we are secure enough in who we are and accept that our parents are who they are (sick) we can stop being hurt by them, stop being disappointed by their inability to be the parent we wish they were and have a semblance of a "normal" relationship?(if we choose to) I'm sorry you are experiencing this...I know the pain well...and I wish there was a painless path to take. If anyone finds it...please also let me know where it is?

Sending you SO much support

[Notwendy]

I agree, there's a sadness to not being able to connect emotionally in a way that can be fulfilling.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost.
I am hopeless.
It isn't my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.

II
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend I don't see it.
I fall in again.
I can't believe I'm in the same place.
But it isn't my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.

III

I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in -it’s a habit.
My eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.


IV
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.

V
I walk down another street.

by Portia Nelson

I will have to print this. Thanks you for sharing it. I think you shared it before, but I didn't read it with the same understanding back then... My eyes are changing..

I can also now see that self-hatred is not the way to respond to my decision to go into the hole again. I went to the park with my children, played with them, met another mom who wanted to hang and have play date with us. It felt good. I am not a monster. I am a nice person, and my children are happy children. We made a sand dessert, my daughter was happy. Left my phone in the car and connected back to the moment for one hour and a half, and it felt good.

Im1109, no, you have nothing to do with what I am feeling and you did not fuel the fire.  If anything, what you wrote yesterday really helped me. You, this forum, everyone here has been a deep source of healing and validation for me.

Talking about it with my husband, he told me it is my own fault because I chose to listen to my brother. Notwendy: my husband gives me tough love, a lot of it, and I do find it very helpful. We had talk, my husband and I, in the morning prior to engaging, and I had told him this forum had led me to believe it wasn't worth answering, I could see it clearly, and my healthy decision was to not engage, and simply answer the initial answer.

Then my brother reached out and told me I should give her my point of view, share my truth, to give her a chance to heal, that she couldn't change if we didn't show her the way somehow. And I am the one who sent the first letter to him, I am the one who kept him in the loop, and I can see now this is another part of the family dynamic. I am looking for my big brother approval, I assume he knows more than me because he is the big brother.

And I listened to him. And this was the second step toward the hole. The first one having been to give him my power, to let him guide me by looking for his approval of what I send, of who I really am. And because he does love me and does approve of who I am, it doesn't feel wrong at first..

Now, I see that my brother was raised to save her. He has his own blind coverinf his eyes. He sees she is intense, but the abuse does not bother him. I suspect him to have a PD of his own, a communal narcissism. He was the first child, we are ten years apart, and he took care of her and of us, all his life. He was the savior. And he abused my other brother heartlessly when he was a teenager. I have this image of them both (my mother and him) beating my other brother on the kitchen floor while I watch from the corner of the room. I can see younger brother is holding back his tears, and I can feel their excitement. I know the game has turned to something very very wrong, but I am 6 and there is nothing I can do. So I stay there and I watch, wanting to tell them to stop and I don't.  

The oldest then left to travel, and he travelled the world, found spirituality and came back wanting to change the world. He built a community, where he stands at the top. He is a life coach... he does exorcism of demons, those are all big red flags on which I chose to close my eyes... And so, when the second letter came in, when I saw the emotional abuse, the hatred she sent me in response to what I tried to show her : my c-PTSD, my need for healing and for a loving space, I sent it to him, thinking : he read my letter, he knows it was fair and not abuse, he will see. But then he wrote me back: She is hurt. This is her truth. I know you see it that way, but this is her truth and it is just as valid.

When I told him I didn't have to tolerate that. He said : of course not. but I trust that you will both find your way toward healing.
And the doubt was seeded. He didn't condemn the abuse. He said : yes there are accusations, but this is her truth and she is hurt and that's what she sees. With both letters in hands, knowing me, knowing our lives, I still got a sense he was pushing for me to show more empathy toward her.

So I  started spinning my wheel.

My brother put fuel on the fire. He planted self doubt. He knows she screams, he knows she is intense, but he pities her. And so, when he read the last part he said : she is trying, look she says she loves you and that you are strong, there is an attempt toward recognizing you but she is clumsy.

He doesn't see how this might actually be PART of the abuse.

My husband told me (reworded but close to): your mother has years of practice on others and on you. She was cruel to you when you were but a little child, and she is still cruel, she knows exactly what she is doing and there is no excuse for what she did and is doing to you. I have no idea why you keep going back there after what she did.

And then he got enraged toward my brother, telling me : is that what he does as a life coach? Sending people back to their abuser, and getting more money out of them when things don't change? Planting self doubt, encouraging people to save the people who don't want to be saved?

And I thought he was very insightful. Maybe it is what he does. My psychologist told me cutting ties was fair. All of you here say it is fair. My husband, who knows my mother, who knows the whole story, tells me constantly to stop trying that she isn't worth it.  

I just start feeling lost in what the truth really is, because I was raised to accept everyone's truth as a valid truth. Even though part of me can now clearly see that some truths are deeply cruel with no empathy and no space for others.

She calls her vision : my facts. And then she goes telling me what I felt and why I felt this way. And somehow she thinks that what she thinks hold as much power as what I told her I felt, like she is in my head. Then she twists it around and somehow bring my father into the equation when they were separated for 30 years. Ain't it time to let go?

Maybe I am just not strong enough yet to be in contact. I am not solid enough yet in who I really am. I am still looking for validation from my brother, from my husband, from everyone and I keep doubting my own truth. My empathy has been and still is used against me in my family.

I do value being there for an elderly parent. I worked with elders for 6 years, I saw a lot of them, lonely, waiting on death, and this is not what I wished for my mother. But I have no idea how I could ever take her with me, even in contact. Very low contact will still not allow me to provide her the care she will need. I will trust my brothers to do that. I have the chance to have two brothers who want to save my mother, so I can let them do it, simply... And go my own way.

My father told me yesterday that his heart improved. He gained capacity since his heart attack. I still have time left with him and my stepmom. He is the one I will choose to help, to be there for when he needs me.

She still has my brothers.

As to if I tried enough ... I did. I am tired of falling into the hole. I am not who she says I am.

The thing I said, about being there, about seeing my children, I remembered, and I said it out of hope. Hope because I lived away and I didn't remember just how bad things could get with her, how abusive she was, how hurtful she could be. How she uses silence as a weapon every chance she gets and raise her tone and discharge all her anger on us whenever she doesn't get her way. I am tired of focussing on her pain, her hurt. She showed me many times, through her actions, who she truly is, and now is the time for me to start believing it.

[Notwendy]

The pull of family dynamics is strong. Your brother stepped in to do what he thought was the right thing to do. Don't be hard on yourself for wanting to do what he suggested. I don't think we stop wanting to be on good terms with our family members, even if our attempts to do this don't turn out how we wished they would.

Not all family members have the same experience with a disordered person, or they are enmeshed and don't see it. My mother's FOO is more sympathetic to her. I also have tried to prove to them that I am a nice person, deserving of their acknowledgement and attention, yet she remains their focus. I have just accepted that anyone connected to my mother is influenced by her and I remain cordial but not too involved with them.

One interesting aspect about dysfunctional family dynamics is that, when everyone does their part, the family feels more stable. If one family member steps out of the dynamic, it upsets that balance and all family members feel a sense of unease. They react by trying to get the family member back into their role to get back to that balance. If the family member does not, then the family has to rebalance- and that sometimes means casting out that family member. Your brother was acting in accordance to this.