Obligatory First Post

[mcgoggles]

Hi there.
I guess I'm here for the same reason as hundreds/thousands before. My wife survived a horrific childhood, she was what I call overly emotional when we were dating but when we were engaged I noticed some troubling patterns which got far worse when we had our child. The past 9-10 years has been kind of horrific. Spent a lot of time hoping to die, only this year learning I have bipolar and ADHD - I get therapy and meds, so I'm doing a lot better. I also have horrible anger issues that I'm trying to keep sated with grounding techniques.

She is not.  Like many borderlines, she mistrusts conventional medicine- she often says my meds aren't helping me and it's just in my head- which can definitely mess with me. While seeking help has been primarily been to help me- it's also to show her that things can get better. She has at least acknowledged I'm getting better. Our son has ADHD and has done far better in school since he's been getting his medicine= thankfully she's not totally at a point where she'd keep our child away from modern medicine.

Despite her acknowledgements of my improvements, like all borderlines she will immediately take that back if she's set off.

I've decided continuing to improve myself, keeping her at distance and continuing to research BPD is the best method presently.
Talked to a therapist, my psychiatrist and even her best friend who is an LPC- it's starting to feel like I'm caring for her as a patient and not my wife. At some point I'll have to bring this up to her, as she doesn't even know I've been researching BPD. Our son is only 7 and already I'm seeing troubling behavior- probably learned from both of us.

I have no clue how to introduce any of this but I hope I can soon convince her. There are times when I think "I'm not going to help her with this, she's said and done too many things to me that she deserves to be this way for the rest of her miserable life", other days I want to help her because it's heartbreaking to know her mind is working like this everyday, all the time. I've occasionally considered having her involuntary committed because I feel I sufficient proof to do so- but based on research it doesn't appear to work that well and I genuinely think if it didn't "take" I'd be in a LOT of danger.

Hod do you introduce the idea to someone that they're mentally ill?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[babyducks]

Welcome to BPD family.    This is a group of people who understand the very unique challenges that come with having a partner who is on the BPD spectrum.

I want to recognize and congratulate you on all the hard work you have done for yourself.   I know that wasn't easy and I am impressed with your bravery.

I'm am going to jump in to the deep end.    I suspect that it will take a while to work through multiple perspectives.

People who are organized on the borderline level spend a frantic and frenzied amount of energy and effort protecting their fragile sense of self and their harmfully intense chaotic emotions.

You might have noticed that yourself.  Chances are your spouse has a great deal of difficulty accepting responsibility but instead views their emotions and behavior as being caused by external people or events.

Make sense?

Introducing the idea of a serious mental illness is guaranteed to create a large emotional dysregulation.    What is suggested is to consider introducing the topic of a troublesome behavior instead.

Instead of 'I think you might have BPD',  something more like 'Would you feel less anxious/depressed about things if you got some support of your very own?"

Can you see the difference in approaches?

What do you think so far?   Are we heading down the right road?

[Rev]

Hey McGoggles,

Not going to say much except three things:

1) Welcome. Sorry for what you are living through. Happy you found us.

2) Let me also add my congratulations for the hard work you are putting in.

3)  You are in great hands with Ducks. I know from personal experience.

Hang in there.

Rev

[mcgoggles]

Welcome to BPD family.    This is a group of people who understand the very unique challenges that come with having a partner who is on the BPD spectrum.

I want to recognize and congratulate you on all the hard work you have done for yourself.   I know that wasn't easy and I am impressed with your bravery.

I'm am going to jump in to the deep end.    I suspect that it will take a while to work through multiple perspectives.

People who are organized on the borderline level spend a frantic and frenzied amount of energy and effort protecting their fragile sense of self and their harmfully intense chaotic emotions.

You might have noticed that yourself.  Chances are your spouse has a great deal of difficulty accepting responsibility but instead views their emotions and behavior as being caused by external people or events.

Make sense?

Introducing the idea of a serious mental illness is guaranteed to create a large emotional dysregulation.    What is suggested is to consider introducing the topic of a troublesome behavior instead.

Instead of 'I think you might have BPD',  something more like 'Would you feel less anxious/depressed about things if you got some support of your very own?"

Can you see the difference in approaches?

What do you think so far?   Are we heading down the right road?

Yes, I agree this is the best method. It's going to be hard to show some restraint, as I'm incredibly angry at her. I very much love her. I want her to be able to do the things she loves and to be with our child. Unfortunately because of the things she's said, the things she's done and the behavior she's passed on to our child; regardless of how much better she gets I'm very likely to never forgive her. I understand this is a mood disorder that isn't totally on her, but I've decided I don't care; I simply want to help her get past this. A less admirable part of my desire to get her better is so she's in a state where I can give her a small taste of the coldness, malice and emotional starvation she's given out. I don't always feel like this, but unless I have adequate time to ground myself my thoughts either revolve around this or suicidal ideation. When she splits to her cruel side my meds aren't always enough.
Also: our present situation is sleeping in two separate rooms, and I haven't hugged her in months. Having sought therapy I know what my triggers are and her splitting has become one of them. I ensure she's cared for and I give her words of encourage when we're both in a good headspace but for the foreseeable future I'm keeping her at arm's length.
Additionally: I was specifically in one of those bad headspaces when I typed the above paragraph. I'm better now, but you can see why I want to repair this.

[yellowbutterfly]

Just wanted to say welcome and that you should be proud of all the work you’ve been doing for yourself. I’m a newbie but the sage advice I’ve found here is wonderful!

[babyducks]

thanks for the reply mcgoggles.  I appreciate it.

I understand the resentment and frustration from finding ourselves in a relationship that turns out to be not at all what we thought it would be.    This is very hard stuff to cope with.     Its okay to feel those feelings.    and it is especially wise to know that you don't need to act on them right now.

for me I had to grieve the relationship I thought I had found.   It was a huge gut wrenching loss to realize that the person I thought was the absolute perfect person for me was, in fact, not.

and I too found the devaluation and attacks very hard to bear.   they didn't make me so much angry as terribly terribly hurt.  the person who should be 'safest' for me was abusive to me.    that was an odd dynamic to try and understand, not one I was prepared for at all.   

it is very difficult to not recoil in some way when we are emotionally and verbally abused.

would it be helpful to talk about some techniques to disengage from the abuse without taking it on board?

I think restraint is the approach for now when it comes to discussing your wife's mental health.    After all this is huge undertaking.    Telling someone you think they have a serious mental health disorder is no simple thing.   It's an enormous task and complicated with both of your emotions.   that's unavoidable.    you both have a lot invested in this relationship.

'ducks

[chemist52]

Hi Mcgoggles,

As some have stated before this is a great place to share and listen to those who have experienced what you have. You are not alone in this process. I, and several others have experienced the feelings of wishing we could help and wanting to leave everything behind. I am glad you have gotten treatment and it has been working. You deserve happiness and stability. I am also glad she has acknowledged your improvements, and I hope you continue that even if she does not seek help. 

 
For BPD, it is a combination of the right medication, therapy, and coping techniques in order for successful treatment. Incorrect medication and treatment have probably made her feel like nothing is working. For instance, my ex has undiagnosed BPD yet has been treated like he has bipolar 2. While it has helped with mood, it does not help the abandonment, paranoia, distorted thinking, impulse control, and unstable work/relationships. Bipolar swings are a Ferris wheel; borderline swings are roller coaster. 

Researching and understanding BPD helps not only her, but you. It helps absolve you of any guilt she tried to accuse you of. Understanding what they think, when they think it, and why they think that way can help better prepare yourself to handle her swings in the future. BPD is predictably unpredictable. Distance is also great. It does not mean you stop loving or caring about them. It is about protecting yourself. None of this was your fault, and you have done nothing to deserve this. It takes a person with unwavering patience and unconditional love to date someone with BPD; especially when it is not treated. They're all right. You are not her doctor or therapist, but her partner. You are NOT responsible to diagnose, treat and heal her. That comes from professionals and herself. As partners, we take on so much of their pain because we love them and hate to see them suffer. I would not be the one to introduce it to her, as she might deny or spin it back on you. It has to come from a third party or professional. For those with BPD, feelings are the facts. So, you could point out 45 reasons why their emotions are not lining up with reality, and them still not believe you. But I hope she gets treatment soon for her and your family, as the cycle has to stop with her and not continue with your son. That is another reason I would not advise you being the one to tell her. I would not want your son being poisoned against you, or you become devalued again. It can feel like dating two people in the same body, one who loves you, and the other who will do anything to stop them from loving you. It can also feel like watching your loved one die and having them come back as someone you do not recognize.

I hope this helps you on your healing journey, and that everything works out the way you want it to.

[mcgoggles]

Update: My hand has been forced. She's become very upset that I'm keeping distant, she demanded to know why.
any other answer I would have given her would have likely lead to paranoia so I just flat-out said I'm protecting myself. I made it clear I'm not mad at her as I once was, but also that she's been terrified of everything for a very long time. She has hallucinations at night and occasionally will burst into tears if a loud noise surprises her.
I stood my ground. I told her I loved her and that I'd provide for her but only she can make the decision to seek help. I asked her to consider a life where she wasn't so angry, or scared. I told her unless she at lest CONSIDERS seeking help I can only love her from the next room. These are the boundaries I've set. She has virtually no love for herself. She doesn't exercise, she doesn't take care of herself. She doesn't brush her teeth or eat any vegetable. She has been intentionally dying very slowly. When I'm not furious at the thought of her I'm extremely depressed at the thought of her.

[babyducks]

mcgoggles,

its sounds like you handled a very difficult conversation the best anyone could.   no one does this perfectly.    it's important to maintain our own composure, and find a way to convey our own truth.

there is a communication technique that we talk about here.   it's called SET.

Support.  Empathy.   Truth.

the technique is to use all three portions in any message we send.   if I were to use a very simple example it would look something like this:   mcgoogles, you've done such good work with this conversation.  (support)   I know how nerve wracking and difficult these can be.  (empathy)   I think you might consider XYZ for your next step.  (truth)   

make sense?

She has hallucinations at night and occasionally will burst into tears if a loud noise surprises her.

hallucinations sound worrisome.   what do you think is happening there?

I stood my ground. I told her I loved her and that I'd provide for her but only she can make the decision to seek help. I asked her to consider a life where she wasn't so angry, or scared. I told her unless she at lest CONSIDERS seeking help I can only love her from the next room.

nicely done.    very good to point out that it's her decision to seek help.    how did she respond to this?   how is the atmosphere between you now?

what do you think your next step is now that you have drawn this boundary?   would you be willing to help set up her first appointment to see someone.    that's something to consider.    you could, if you want, pick two mental health professionals and leave the contact information for her.   it would be important to pick two.   that way she has a choice but isn't paralyzed by hundreds of names on a website someplace.

what do you think?

'ducks

[SaltyDawg]

babyducks, has a very good point, that I would like to add my two cents to this conversation.

would you be willing to help set up her first appointment to see someone.    that's something to consider.    you could, if you want, pick two mental health professionals and leave the contact information for her.   it would be important to pick two.   that way she has a choice but isn't paralyzed by hundreds of names on a website someplace.

If you are willing to do this, find ones that know how to handle BPD and have experience with it.  If this is not possible for you in your location, then try finding one that deals with 'high conflict' relationships.

[mcgoggles]

@babyducks and @SalyDawg
Yes, I'd be more than willing- but I need to get her to the point where she can remotely consider it. She's been angry with me for the past 2 weeks, so now won't be the time.
During these phases I have little communication with her. I block her phone number and her accounts on social media. This seems harsh and callous but the way I see it, I'm not sacrificing my mental health or feelings for hers at this point. She also takes it upon herself to clean the house and do the chores; she won't let me, possibly as a way to martyr herself. So when I'm not at work I'm pretty much in my room at all times.
One thing I need to do more is engage with my son. Presently I'm not interacting with him as much because it would require being in her presence, hearing her say I'm only trying to spend time with him to look good when I allegedly don't care. All in all it's not a good look for me and makes me look like a selfish a-hole which I'm guessing is par for the course with BPD and a cause for separation much of the time.
If this blows over at any point soon I WILL set up an appointment for her. As much as I hate her right now (or the present her) it's genuinely worth the effort.

[babyducks]

If this blows over at any point soon I WILL set up an appointment for her. As much as I hate her right now (or the present her) it's genuinely worth the effort.

A little nuance to consider.   And nuance is important.

Please don't set up an appointment for her.

Setting it up for her walks right into 'you are making me'... 'you are trying to control me'...'you picked a jerk'

HELP her set up an appointment but make sure she has input and choices.   It's perfectly okay to say / start with something like "I can help you figure out the insurance stuff but the choice of who and when is up to you "

[leedsfan1109]

Welcome welcome! Looking forward to meeting more people over my time here!

[SaltyDawg]

A little nuance to consider.   And nuance is important.

Please don't set up an appointment for her.

Setting it up for her walks right into 'you are making me'... 'you are trying to control me'...'you picked a jerk'

HELP her set up an appointment but make sure she has input and choices.   It's perfectly okay to say / start with something like "I can help you figure out the insurance stuff but the choice of who and when is up to you "

I am guilty of that.  It does not work.  We went to one session, and my wife fired her by not going back, even though it was my wife who told me to hire her.  Go figure. 

So, after that, I let her decide if and when we needed to get counseling. 

Well, I will jump at any opportunity that she wants to go to counseling with me [even if it is her intention to 'fix' me].

[mcgoggles]

I'm at least willing to print out the paperwork. Since she doesn't want to take care of herself she let her medicaid expire and she does not work.
We're in Columbus, OH and there only a handful of pro-bono mental health services I know of.

[mcgoggles]

Okay, I am researching pro-bono -sliding scale options for mental health counseling.
She refused to put in the time/effort to re-apply for medicaid so she's got nothing at the moment. I am least willing to print out application sheets from different programs for her.
We're in Columbus, OH. I don't know if it's any more difficult to find work in other places as here.

[SaltyDawg]

You can only do so much.  You printed out the applications, gave it to her, and she did nothing.  She is responsible for her actions, even if you think her 'condition' says otherwise.

You can only take care of you, so come up with a plan that works for you.

Be sure to practice self-care, that is my number one recommendation no matter what state your relationship is in healthy to totally dysfunctional.  Where you go from there is up to you.

[kells76]

Good feedback from SaltyDawg. "Lead a horse to water" comes to mind. You've been very caring in wanting to support your W, and now she's at a point where she decides for herself if/how she will follow through.

What she does or doesn't do, though, doesn't have to impact you taking care of yourself. Continuing with your therapy and meds is huge. Taking some time for yourself to recharge, be with friends/family, etc, where you can take a break from the disorder, will be important as well. As the airlines say, in order to help others put on their oxygen masks, you have to put on your own first.

You know her best, so you can ponder if she may be more able/willing to move forward in seeking treatment if she feels less "pressured". For example, now that you've printed out some applications, I wonder what would happen if there was some "breathing room" and you gave yourself a break from research and suggestions. Leave the applications around wherever, and maybe don't mention it or "suggest" or "hint" that she do anything. Some pwBPD, in a weird way, once the (perceived) pressure is off, can take suggestions and move forward with a plan, though they may frame it as "I always wanted to do that" or "That was my idea".

Anyway, food for thought. Glad you're taking care of yourself.

[babyducks]

hello mcgoogles,

there is good feedback in this thread for you to consider.     It sounds like you have advanced the idea of therapy as far as you can for now.     I'd agree with the others who have said perhaps let the idea rest for a while.

How are things going for you today?    How are you feeling?

I'd like to take a moment to encourage you to explore other areas of this website.    there is a lot of content here and sometimes sorting through it takes some time.

below is a link to the library section.    the articles and posts are slightly older there but still contain very helpful information.    that's why they are saved off into a special collection.    when you are ready click on the link below.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62266.0

the library talks about what we can do, what steps we can take to maintain ourselves and hopefully help our relationship.     often the advice is to concentrate on improving our own relationship skills.    which sounds unfair but is really the best practical approach.   the three main tools often mentioned in regards to a BPD relationship are:   Validation.    Boundaries.    Communication tools like SET/DEARMAN/JADE.    It takes very good communication skills to be in a relationship with a pwBPD.

When I first got here, I knew nothing about validation.   I certainly didn't learn it as a child.     Validating a person's feelings does not mean agreeing with them.   It means sending a message that they are heard.    recognized.    It is a high level emotional intelligence skill.    below is another link:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=81442.0

this is from the link above.    it gives some examples of how we are often invalidating without meaning to be.   

Words and phrases that are invalidating to others (not just those with BPD):

Ordering them to feel differently- "don't be mad. Get over it."
Ordering them to look differently- "don't look so sad."
Denying their perception or defending - "that's not what I meant"
Making them feel guilty- "I tried to help you"
Trying to isolate them- "you are the only one who feels that way"
Minimizing their feeling- "you must be kidding"
Using reason- "you are not being rational"
Debating- "I don't always do that"
Judging and labeling them- "you're too sensitive"
Turning things around- "you're making a big deal out of nothing"
Trying to get them to question themselves- "why can't you just get over it?"
Telling them how they should feel- "you should be happy"
Defending the other person- "she didn't mean it that way"
Negating, denial, and confusion- "now you know that isn't true"
Sarcasm and mocking- "you poor baby"
Laying guilt trips- "don't you ever think of anyone else?"
Philosophizing and cliches- "time heals all wounds"
Talking about them when they can hear it- "you can't say anything to her"
Showing intolerance- "I am sick of hearing about it"
Trying to control how long someone feels about something- "you should be over that by now"
Explanation- "maybe it's because _____ "

usually there is some truth to the idea that both people in a BPD relationship have low tolerance for invalidation.   and high validation needs of their own.    when the wires get crossed, having a simple conversation can be emotionally difficult.

I know that's a lot to take in.     What's your first impression as you read through some of that?

'ducks

[mcgoggles]

OK, sadly I've revealed my hand and may have destroyed any hope of repairing this; I told her that she probably has BPD.
Our son has been displaying symptoms of coprophagia; smearing feces on the bathroom walls/floor and hiding urine/feces in his room. We messaged his doctor, but then it quickly became about what *I* did. We have both used corporal punishment, have screamed at him- bad parent stuff. I've already promised him I wouldn't anymore and for the past couple months It's been better.

She still flies into rages, punches him screams etc, then has no memory of it and insists she's gotten better.
During our argument our argument. She shifted this all on me and asked how I had any idea of what could be wrong. She said because of her upbringing she knows what makes kids like this and I'm to blame. I brought up her behavior, the fact that her brother has this behavior and the fact that this is most commonly associated with BPD and then I outright said it.

Like clockwork, "no YOU have it", "YOU are the only one to blame" and "I never said I hallucinate, I don't get panicked, but if I do it's because of you and him".
I didn't bring this up during the argument because I know she'd insist it never happens but along with the vocal threats of suicide in front of him she once told me that if we ever divorced and I tried to take him she said she'd kill the boy and then herself. I don't necessarily believe she'd do that but due to me revealing my intentions for her I worry she could get backed into a corner; especially if she knew I'd secretly discussed this with her best friend who is a LPC.

She said that clearly I have the problems because I havent changed and why we make so little money.
I finally cracked. I told her that living with someone who has BPD can make progressing in a career way harder.

I am concerned about what's going to happen from hereon.

[Rev]

OK, sadly I've revealed my hand and may have destroyed any hope of repairing this; I told her that she probably has BPD.
Our son has been displaying symptoms of coprophagia; smearing feces on the bathroom walls/floor and hiding urine/feces in his room. We messaged his doctor, but then it quickly became about what *I* did. We have both used corporal punishment, have screamed at him- bad parent stuff. I've already promised him I wouldn't anymore and for the past couple months It's been better.

She still flies into rages, punches him screams etc, then has no memory of it and insists she's gotten better.
During our argument our argument. She shifted this all on me and asked how I had any idea of what could be wrong. She said because of her upbringing she knows what makes kids like this and I'm to blame. I brought up her behavior, the fact that her brother has this behavior and the fact that this is most commonly associated with BPD and then I outright said it.

Like clockwork, "no YOU have it", "YOU are the only one to blame" and "I never said I hallucinate, I don't get panicked, but if I do it's because of you and him".
I didn't bring this up during the argument because I know she'd insist it never happens but along with the vocal threats of suicide in front of him she once told me that if we ever divorced and I tried to take him she said she'd kill the boy and then herself. I don't necessarily believe she'd do that but due to me revealing my intentions for her I worry she could get backed into a corner; especially if she knew I'd secretly discussed this with her best friend who is a LPC.

She said that clearly I have the problems because I havent changed and why we make so little money.
I finally cracked. I told her that living with someone who has BPD can make progressing in a career way harder.

I am concerned about what's going to happen from hereon.

Hi there McGoggles,

First off... thank you for the trust you've placed here in sharing this news with such clarity and honesty.  That takes courage on one hand AND it takes even more integrity to be so clear on the other hand. I just want to affirm that.

With that respect in mind, please hear that I am now writing with your son in mind. In the part of the world that I live in, if you were in my office, I would be required by law, under penalty of failure to comply, to report to what we call here as Children's Aid Society. The behavior you describe fits the definition a child being at risk with the aim of intervening in a supportive role - namely a social worker would work to keep the family unit intact while protecting the mental and physical wellbeing of your son. Now that's the law in my area - I would implore you to inform yourself of what your obligations are in yours.

As a secondary comment - are you yourself safe?  That too is important because it seems that your wife is not in a current state to care for you son. That means it appears to be on your shoulders.  Are there support groups in your area for men in your situation?  That can be hard to find. In my area, threatening suicide and infanticide meets the legal definition for Domestic Violence and Abuse.  

Again, I know that these words can be confronting, because they are strong. I want to reaffirm how much courage and integrity I sense in you sharing them. These are the words of a man who cares for his family and for his son - even a man who wishes his wife would get help so that the family can be healthy. That shows the depth of your heart.

Please ponder these words I am sharing.

Please continue to reach out.

Please continue to love your boy. He needs you to be strong right now.

You got this.

Rev

[mcgoggles]

Thank you for your transparency as well, Rev. Regardless of my son's behavior I am 100% certain the boy's life is not in danger, but I am very certain my wife's would be if he were taken from her.
That being said if I made an ultimatum to leave if she doesn't seek help, or simply decide to start the process I am not 100% certain I wouldn't be in danger. She has a brother who very likely has BPD and he's...compulsive. I am very certain it could either end with getting hurt or my professional reputation + finances irrevocably ruined. If I feel this way, I'm willing to bet everyone on this board reading this would say this is a very probable result.

[mcgoggles]

actually, as far as the boy's safety from her I don't know if I'm in a position to say he's 100% safe. I just know that has never been a situation up until now and that I'd like to NOT consider that possibility.

[kells76]

Hey mcgoggles, glad you came back and updated us on how things are going. It does sound really difficult right now. It's so good that your son has you.

Can you remind me, how old is your son? School age? Is he back in school, then, after the holiday break?

One more question -- you've mentioned before seeing a T for yourself. When's your next appointment?

Lots of moving parts and challenges here. We can take it a day at a time as you figure out some good paths forward.

I'll check back in a bit;

kells76

[mcgoggles]

Hey mcgoggles, glad you came back and updated us on how things are going. It does sound really difficult right now. It's so good that your son has you.

Can you remind me, how old is your son? School age? Is he back in school, then, after the holiday break?

One more question -- you've mentioned before seeing a T for yourself. When's your next appointment?

Lots of moving parts and challenges here. We can take it a day at a time as you figure out some good paths forward.

I'll check back in a bit;

kells76

They boy's 7. He just went back to school. I don't have a current T, only a Psich. I spin a lot of plates as it is, so if I have to make a choice between staying medicated or therapy, I'll take the meds. To his credit my Psich /does/ ask about my personal life and how our current situation is but he does harp on me to continue to seek therapy. I don't have one set T because I use a telehealth service- also I worry my wife listens to my T sessions because they take longer than my Psich.
So I understand I will very likely have to see a T soon, ATM I have various support groups and friend circles to keep me more grounded. Even though I'm the only one working, just being out and around strangers is better for me than being home with her for 8 hours.

[Rev]

Thank you for your transparency as well, Rev. Regardless of my son's behavior I am 100% certain the boy's life is not in danger, but I am very certain my wife's would be if he were taken from her.
That being said if I made an ultimatum to leave if she doesn't seek help, or simply decide to start the process I am not 100% certain I wouldn't be in danger. She has a brother who very likely has BPD and he's...compulsive. I am very certain it could either end with getting hurt or my professional reputation + finances irrevocably ruined. If I feel this way, I'm willing to bet everyone on this board reading this would say this is a very probable result.

That's good clarity. In situations like this sticking within the boundaries of personal safety is super important.  I am really reassured that we're talking on this level.

Objectively your son and your family are fortunate to have you there. I say that objectively- cause there are parents who would have bailed by now.

I an wondering how we can best support you now in the moment. Kells and I can compliment each other.

So what do you think? Are there some specific questions you have?  Do you need moral support? A place to vent so you can stay in this really logical place you seem to be in? Something else?

Hang in there.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[mcgoggles]

For the time-being I'm mainly using this thread as a method of grounding by checking if something new develops. In the off-chance this ends well it can be used as a case-study for future BPD family.

I WOULD like to ask if anyone here has had custody/divorce/commitment experience. In the scenario where legal action has to be taken I know my own mental health is going to be used to dispute my credibility.
Also, now that she knows my motivations and what what my view of her mental health is, should I still attempt to 'lead' her to the decisions to seek therapy, or is that a wasted effort?

[Rev]

For the time-being I'm mainly using this thread as a method of grounding by checking if something new develops. In the off-chance this ends well it can be used as a case-study for future BPD family.

I WOULD like to ask if anyone here has had custody/divorce/commitment experience. In the scenario where legal action has to be taken I know my own mental health is going to be used to dispute my credibility.
Also, now that she knows my motivations and what what my view of her mental health is, should I still attempt to 'lead' her to the decisions to seek therapy, or is that a wasted effort?

Kells will look into that for you.  There are many boards here.  

I can support you for your sense of self and that kind of thing. Regardless of the direction you're going to take with this, I'd be more that happy to be moral support. I have, unfortunately, experience with having been on the end of some pretty rough treatment from my ex.

One thing that stands out - I would most definitely stay away from "leading" her towards therapy. Even in the best of circumstances, that really doesn't produce good results. The things you are suggesting your wife has said makes that situation really only more risky. 

If I were in your situation, I would seek guidance for yourself instead. Real good advice about how to manage the day to day stuff until you get the bigger picture sorted out in terms of where you want to be headed.  I know it this may sound like not much, but please trust me.  Getting yourself grounded in believing you deserve way better than this will make a huge difference down the road.  And when I say this, I don't judge your wife, the mother of your son, in any way. Right now, I am really just wanting you to be where you need to be - heart, mind and soul.

Kells will know where to get the concrete advice you're looking for. These are real issues for you to be looking into without question.

Really sorry for the situation you find yourself in. Glad you found us. You'll get good support here.

Reach out any time.

Rev

[Rev]

I WOULD like to ask if anyone here has had custody/divorce/commitment experience. In the scenario where legal action has to be taken I know my own mental health is going to be used to dispute my credibility.

I'm expecting someone to reach out to your regarding the divorcing board. There are tools here also that will apply to the above - but I am less familiar with them.

Please check the previous post again if you have already seen it before. I added some thougths.

Rev

[kells76]

For the time-being I'm mainly using this thread as a method of grounding by checking if something new develops. In the off-chance this ends well it can be used as a case-study for future BPD family.

Makes a lot of sense -- sometimes I post here in a similar way, where something crazy has happened (again  ) with the kids' mom and stepdad, so I post what happened to record it, and I also get some feedback and perspective.

I WOULD like to ask if anyone here has had custody/divorce/commitment experience. In the scenario where legal action has to be taken I know my own mental health is going to be used to dispute my credibility.

Divorce/custody: yes, my DH and his kids' mom divorced >10 years ago. Tell me a little more about what you mean by "commitment" -- do you mean relational commitment ("we're sticking this out together"), or psychiatric commitment ("you're going to a mental hospital"), or other?

Weirdly, the "nice" thing about "broadly normal" (I'm not talking homicidal psychopathy) MH issues is that generally, in regards to divorce/custody, it isn't about whether you have them or not, it's about what you do about them. There's a world of difference between being a person who shows up in court and is like "Nope, I've really got it together, no problems with me, it's all the other parent's fault!" and a person who says "You know, Your Honor, once I learned that I had ADHD and that it was impacting my parenting, I knew I had to prioritize our son's well-being, so I actively sought out professional support. Now, with medication and consistent check-ins, I'm managing my condition successfully, and my provider assures me she sees minimal to no impact on our son." Huge, huge difference.

One member here will remind people that "courts love counseling". It shows that you're a realistic, practical problem-solver. Proactively seeking help for MH issues also "takes the wind out of the sails" of the other parent. Now that it's out in the open, she can't hold it over your head like some horribly powerful secret. It's like -- if the other parent brings up: "He's an unfit dad because he... HAS DEPRESSION", you could be like "Sure, it's no secret that I've already talked about managing my depression through professional support... let's move on to what really matters, which is our child".

So, if you can keep on doing what you're doing -- regular appointments with your psych, plus med management, plus (like you've mentioned) chatting with your P about real life issues -- that can "de-weaponize" any use of your MH against you.

To additionally "de-fang" and get ahead of any allegations about MH, one approach could be having a discussion with your P about the impact of your MH on your parenting. I'd suspect your P would keep session notes? This would show that you're prioritizing your son and educating yourself on how to be the best dad you can under the circumstances. Especially if your P was like "Well, one way this diagnosis/these med side effects/XYZ impacts parenting is... ABC", then you guys can talk about how you can work with that, and you can report back "I took our discussion seriously and now I'm trying your suggestion with Son, and I'm seeing results".

So as long as you're taking reasonably normal steps to acknowledge any MH hurdles and manage them with a professional, I wouldn't worry too much about your credibility. I hope that can deflate that worry a bit.

One other story I remember from a member here is that (as best I can remember) he and his kids' mom both had to take the MMPI-2 (a mental health/psych assessment). His showed that he had a predisposition towards addictive behaviors/addictions, which he hadn't known before. So, instead of being afraid that it'd be used against him, he realized that he could use that to show that he was a pretty reasonable dad -- his plan, if that came up in court, was to say something like "I learned from my assessment that I have traits XYZ, so I'm glad I learned that, and my plan going forward is to avoid addictive substances, because I know that would impact my kids". He shined light on it instead of treating it like a secret, and that can really deflate any attempt to use it as an "aha, gotcha" kind of thing.

Also, now that she knows my motivations and what what my view of her mental health is, should I still attempt to 'lead' her to the decisions to seek therapy, or is that a wasted effort?

Rev's perspective is helpful -- now might be a time to focus on your and your son's well-being. She's likely not in a place to hear or be receptive to do anything, so you can put all that energy and focus on getting help and support for you and your son. Your son is a child and needs adult help, while your W is an adult and can make adult choices on her own.

For your son, have you chatted with any teachers/school personnel yet about getting some extra help for him, or even just alerting them that he's having difficulties? Even at 7 (is he 2nd grade?), there are probably great resources in his school that you can give a "heads up" to. Does that sound do-able to you?

...

Whenever you want, don't hesitate to post on the Conflicted/Divorce/Custody board. Lots of members there have gone through separation, divorce, lawyer stuff, legal stuff, parenting plans, getting professional help for the kids... all of it. Please check out the threads and post when you need to -- we'll be there.

Keep us in the loop;

kells76