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Author Topic: How to communicate to pBPD that I am hurt by her actions  (Read 1262 times)
Botanist5402

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« on: December 17, 2022, 10:15:26 AM »

Hello, a follow up from a rambling post of mine. I believe my partner has a personal disorder as does her psychiatrists. From what I have read BPD resonates the most. For the last two winters, my partner has withdrawn from me emotionally and fills every waking hour with either intense work or partying with friends, often excluding me from events and get togethers. It nearly broke our relationship last winter and I made terrible mistakes in my state of pain and fear of losing the relationship. We decided though to reinvest. We went to therapy individually and together. We spoke and rebuilt into what felt like a stronger version of ourselves and of our partnership. We decided to get married, and were planning for the future including moving to another country and building a home together. We moved in together for the first time and have been sharing a flat.

This winter, she again began to distance herself from me and fill her time with other people. She would constantly tell me about how much other people liked her, how much they thought she was beautiful and how much praise she receives. She then stopped touching me physically and completely disengaged sexually. I went on a small trip abroad and when I returned she asked for space. It took me time to realize she was asking for space from the relationship, not just physical space. I have since learned that she has been telling people within our shared friend group of deeply personal aspects of our intimacy issues and that she went to sessions with our couples therapist on her own without informing me. I have been isolated from several friends and am now homeless with zero idea of how I ended up in this place so quickly when for so long we worked together on our relationship issues in a productive and mutually accepting way. I feel like she completely flipped on me. She removed photos of me from her phone, she stopped texting me, she doesn't tell me where she is going. But when we see each other she is an emotional wreck and always directs the conversation to how much pain she is in. Even if I ask for a conversation to take place to be specifically about how I feel, it inevitably turns into either an explaination of why the way I feel is just a misunderstanding of her intentions. She very rarely apologies and if she does it feels like pulling teeth. I don't know how to communicate that I am hurt. I don't know how to express that what she is doing is eradict and cruel and unfair.

Is there any hope of facilitating conversations that allow for my emotional expression without it being an attack? are there therapists groups available in the UK who specifically are trained to handled this specific dynmic in relationships? How can I support her as a partner when she is pushing away from me so intensely. I am doing work on myself and seeking unbiased support to help me land on my feet. And I am learning the dangers of acting as a caretaker. So I see I need to worry less about her and know she can handle her own affairs and emotional struggles. But I feel like it is killing me that I can't convey to her how hurt I am and that her view of events and my view of events can be different and one is not more right than the other. Any suggestions or advise would be so appreciated. We have had a very strong and I think overall healthy relationship. Since we moved back to the UK where most of her childhood trauma took place all of this has gotten so much worse. But I have become the reason she is unhappy. And that hurts because I know I am not the real reason she is unhappy. And I catch glipses that she knows it too but she has gotten stuck on the idea that I am bad and that I need to leave despite the fact I am now homeless and barely capable of managing myu own responsabilities as I look for housing and try and find my own support.
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2022, 05:15:06 PM »

Hi Botanist,

I’m sorry you’re in this situation and I hope you can find some shelter and food and keep warm. Honestly, I don’t know what the answer is. I just wanted to say, I know where you’re coming from. My wife goes through phases of “painting me black” which last for months and feel more permanent each time. At times she genuinely believes that I’ve ruined her life and it feels like she wishes she never met me. It was your comment how your partner feels you’re making her unhappy… that prompted me to reply. My wife seems entirely blind to the fact that I’m in many ways a good partner, and that I always try my best in this relationship.

You mentioned childhood trauma. My wife suffered abuse as a child. She recently shared on Facebook a song I wrote and played for her several years ago on the piano (without the lyrics which are deeply disturbing). Part of it was about the PTSD nightmares she suffered when we were first together. And I can’t believe I didn’t remember this… but part of the lyrics was, “sorry I’m sorry I’m sorry I’m sorry I’m sorry I’m sorry I’m sorry I’m sorry please don’t hurt me”. She used to say this in her sleep, during her nightmares. The most I’ve ever heard her say sorry was during those nightmares. And it breaks my heart to think that all her sorry’s were used up when she was an abused child and I think that’s why she never apologises to me about anything.

It has been said that a relationship with a pwbpd is like a special needs relationship. You have to be the emotional leader and to some extent they will never take any responsibility for their actions, or have empathy for your feelings. There are many things both positive and negative that I don’t share with my wife for fear of “triggering her”. It seems your partner is a bit more self-aware as my wife doesn’t even see any need for therapy of any kind for either of us.

I hope things work out for you anyway. I am thinking of you.
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2022, 11:13:26 PM »

We have had a very strong and I think overall healthy relationship

A strong and healthy relationship is not the one you described.  You can't help somebody who doesn't want to help themselves.  It is time for you to focus on self-love and self-respect.  You need to do things that make you happy independent of your wife. 
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2022, 08:04:45 AM »

IMHO, you can not communicate to her that you are hurt by her behavior. If she was able to comprehend your point of view, she would not be doing what she is doing.

My point of view comes from having a BPD mother who has done many hurtful things- and yet, telling her that results in her escalating these behaviors. It doesn't make sense that someone would care about you and do these things. So you wonder- if only, if only you could get through to her, she'd see what she's doing. How can you do that?

It will help to read about the Karpman triangle. There's a saying "hurting people hurt others" and as you can see, your partner is having emotional pain. She tells you that herself. And due to her disorder, she projects that emotional pain- sees it as something external to her and with BPD the source of that to them can be the people closest to them.

Then, from victim perspective, they "defend" themselves by hurting you back in return and they feel justified in doing so. If you try to show them that you are hurting- you are taking victim position. But they are in victim position already. You can't take victim position with them. So they can't see that you are feeling hurt - they are already dealing with their own hurt feelings and possibly blaming you for them.

You can not communicate this to them because, you can not take victim position. Also you can't take it with yourself. Yes, it's a tough situation but victim position is ineffective. You have to take action to take care of yourself. She won't do it for you. I am sorry you are in this situation, homeless and in dire straits. Please reach out to someone for assistance, social services, a shelter, and get help with your needs. You do not need her to affirm your self worth. You are worth taking care of you and not waiting for her to see that. Please seek out any mental health resources if you need them too. This is difficult but you are not the cause of your partner's distress.

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Botanist5402

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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2022, 08:11:51 AM »

Honestly, I don’t know what the answer is. I just wanted to say, I know where you’re coming from. My wife goes through phases of “painting me black” which last for months and feel more permanent each time. At times she genuinely believes that I’ve ruined her life and it feels like she wishes she never met me. It was your comment how your partner feels you’re making her unhappy… that prompted me to reply. My wife seems entirely blind to the fact that I’m in many ways a good partner, and that I always try my best in this relationship.

Thank you so much for the reply. I have read a lot from other posts about this painting black. It feels so unexpected, scary and unfair. It happened last year and she continually explained that it was because her life was too stressful or too much. But when we came back together it was never acknowledge as a source of pain for me. So when she started distancing again this winter, I tried my best to just give her the space she needed and not force the issue, knowing the winters are difficult and she goes through these cycles. But when she asked me to leave, and blamed me and has been erratic and cruel I have been so caught off guard. It is in such juxtaposition to how she has treated me in the past and has totally thrown me and my life off track.

You mentioned your wife often paints you black, and I am sorry you experience this so frequently. It feels scary to know if I stay and try to rebuild that this may happen again, and likely will. What strategies have you found helpful when your wife paints you black and blames you for her pain? I want to have hope that we can move forward. I know we can't go back, and I am cautious of her going back into an idealization period again. But I want to take steps for myself to heal from all of this. But I also want to be thinking about the relationship and the ways I can be supportive.  
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2022, 08:28:52 AM »

I have read a lot from other posts about this painting black. It feels so unexpected, scary and unfair. It happened last year and she continually explained that it was because her life was too stressful or too much.

I'm in the exact same situation- 24 years of marriage, she was super depressed for a few months then she's gone from what I thought was one conversation.  Looking back though, my wife was likely having that conversation in her mind the entire time she was super down and convinced herself that I never loved her, never cared about her, etc. 

It's a sickness and it's not necessarily our faults, but we aren't victims either.  Looking back, my wife had bouts of extreme depression throughout the 24 years.  Sometimes a day or two, sometimes a week.  Nobody would have ever thought BPD because my wife suffered in silence and hid her pain.  They're really good at that- we see the explosions, but it's the silent stuff that really wrecks these relationships.

We've been separated for 4 months and I'm currently still painted black.  And to be honest, I wasted a ton of energy trying to get her back, trying to get her to understand how I love her, etc.  But black is black in their minds; words and gestures can't fix that.  The only thing you have at the moment is moving forward with your life and focusing on you.  Maybe it works out down the road, maybe it doesn't, but you have to be in the mindset where you can choose everything that comes with that decision.

Hope that helps!
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2022, 04:24:30 PM »

What strategies have you found helpful when your wife paints you black and blames you for her pain? I want to have hope that we can move forward. I know we can't go back, and I am cautious of her going back into an idealization period again. But I want to take steps for myself to heal from all of this. But I also want to be thinking about the relationship and the ways I can be supportive.  

Hi botanist,

Honestly, it has been quite a journey. I have been on the forum for nearly two years and posted very regularly. You have caught me at a bad time because my wife turned on me a few weeks after our third child arrived at the end of October. The latest split lasted about a month. It is apparently over, but at the moment I do not trust my wife because she is still not wanting any affection or expression of love so I’m waiting to see if there’s another episode on the way.

Winding back the clock. If you are interested, I have posted my entire story on here. These people in bpd family have been wonderful to me. The best people I’ve ever known. I recommend the book, “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”. It was a real eye opener for me. So, I said these splits happen often. But when I joined here in Feb 2021 our second child was due. My wife decided to love me again shortly before the baby arrived. From then on, things went from strength to strength with everything I’ve learnt on here and from the books I read. I learnt to look after myself, to stand up for myself. My wife was previously very controlling and I was so upset when she was angry or unhappy. I learnt to deal with that better. I became stronger. And over time my wife, most bizarrely, became more calm, and more reasonable. It was so strange. But it lasted for a very long time. None of the changes in her behaviour were anything like her choosing to be more mature and less angry or anything like that. She never admitted she had a problem. It had  everything to do with the changes I made for myself. If you look in success stories at the top of the page, I shared my story on there a few posts up.

I spent most of this year on here posting my story of hope to encourage others that things could get better, that you have more power than you realise, that you have a right to be happy, and that you can be happy.

I foolishly even felt safe in the relationship and that she was bringing our third baby into the world. And then she turned on me again. And it felt very serious this time. But then when she asked me to get back together with her on our 5th wedding anniversary, I discovered she had bought me a lovely gift which she had bought when I thought she hated me. So I’m still so confused.

I don’t know where we are heading. She speaks of our future positively at times. Other times I’m just holding it together for the sake of our small children as she couldn’t cope on her own. If she decides to “put up with me” forever… will I decide the same about her? I hope I can retain my inner strength and deal with these episodes better.. There are some very strong and kind and knowledgeable people on here and I’m still so glad I found them to guide me through it.
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Botanist5402

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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2022, 05:58:49 AM »


I had just spent 4 days away and when I came home I had a list of things I needed to express. But before I could even say a word she told me she was leaving the same day for a 4 day ski trip with a man in her medical course. I know this man has strong feelings for my partner. And I know she is very clearly expressing that it isn't fair for me to be jealous because that is me expressing ownership over her. I am such a wreck. I just cannot believe that 3 weeks ago we were planning our first christmas just the two of us to have as a family and now she is running off with some random man. She is going to Germany for new years as well. I just don't know if I have the strength.
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2022, 07:06:11 AM »


 I just don't know if I have the strength.

So sorry to hear about the "whiplash".  It can be really painful and exhausting to try and make sense of it all.

You say you "don't know if you have the strength."  

Can you say more?  If you knew that you did "have the strength" what would the signs be, do you think?

Rev
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2022, 07:06:57 AM »

So sorry to hear about the "whiplash".  It can be really painful and exhausting to try and make sense of it all.

You say you "don't know if you have the strength." 

Can you say more?  If you knew that you did "have the strength" what would the signs be, do you think?

Rev
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2022, 09:05:41 AM »

Notwendy comes through with the wisdom once again. Thanks for your contributions!

IMHO, you can not communicate to her that you are hurt by her behavior. If she was able to comprehend your point of view, she would not be doing what she is doing.

My point of view comes from having a BPD mother who has done many hurtful things- and yet, telling her that results in her escalating these behaviors. It doesn't make sense that someone would care about you and do these things. So you wonder- if only, if only you could get through to her, she'd see what she's doing. How can you do that?

It will help to read about the Karpman triangle. There's a saying "hurting people hurt others" and as you can see, your partner is having emotional pain. She tells you that herself. And due to her disorder, she projects that emotional pain- sees it as something external to her and with BPD the source of that to them can be the people closest to them.

Then, from victim perspective, they "defend" themselves by hurting you back in return and they feel justified in doing so. If you try to show them that you are hurting- you are taking victim position. But they are in victim position already. You can't take victim position with them. So they can't see that you are feeling hurt - they are already dealing with their own hurt feelings and possibly blaming you for them.

You can not communicate this to them because, you can not take victim position. Also you can't take it with yourself. Yes, it's a tough situation but victim position is ineffective. You have to take action to take care of yourself. She won't do it for you. I am sorry you are in this situation, homeless and in dire straits. Please reach out to someone for assistance, social services, a shelter, and get help with your needs. You do not need her to affirm your self worth. You are worth taking care of you and not waiting for her to see that. Please seek out any mental health resources if you need them too. This is difficult but you are not the cause of your partner's distress.


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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2022, 12:50:21 PM »

Thanks LifewithEase. It really is hard to have someone be hurtful and I had to learn to not take it personally and even so, if it's hurtful, to protect oneself from that.

I think it must feel discouraging to post here and realize we can't make someone "see" our own feelings but we also can't change how someone else thinks or feels.

I do think in general, we need to have our own basic needs met before being able to be in any kind of relationship- BPD or not. While the wish is to find some positive way to be supportive in a relationship- taking care of ourselves is positive. They say on an airplane, put your oxygen mask on first. Oxygen is a basic and essential need and so is shelter, food, clothing. Taking care of these first is a positive way to go, no matter what choice the other person makes.
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Botanist5402

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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2022, 05:29:31 PM »

Thanks LifewithEase. It really is hard to have someone be hurtful and I had to learn to not take it personally and even so, if it's hurtful, to protect oneself from that.

I think it must feel discouraging to post here and realize we can't make someone "see" our own feelings but we also can't change how someone else thinks or feels.


Despite all the advice, despite all that I have read, I tried to speak with her today. Everything completely fell apart. Before I could even say anything she told me she was leaving to go on a ski trip we both know has strong feelings for her. So I felt anxious and scared going into the convo. I tried to stick to my plan, and communicate my needs, and she just turned them into her own issues. Blaming me for the situation. Yelling at me and telling me she couldn't take this right now. I was sat crying on the couch as she just completely ignored me.

I went for a walk. And soon after she texted me asking to come back so she could see me as she wouldn't see me before christmas. I nearly broke, I was so angry I wanted to scream and fight and yell right back. But I luckily bumped into a friend. And I vented. And I decided enough is enough.

I am done being tossed around. I am done being manipulated and not heard. I blocked her and have deleted my social media and need a break from anything that feels like her. I am also arranging housing for me to move out of the town to focus on my work.

I feel so bad still. I feel like I am just affirming her worst fear, of being abandoned. I know she knows her and her siblings push people away before they get hurt. She has verbalised it. But she seems so unable to recognize it in her own behaviour. I have become a demon to her. Her mother has BPD, and I was always so sorry for her experience and her pain of growing up with a parent like that. Maybe I don't fully understand, but I now know how confusing and horrible it is to just want to love a person who turns you into a demon and the source of all of their problems. I am done. I need to find my own help. Thank you for all the messages and guidance.
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Botanist5402

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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2022, 06:04:01 PM »

So sorry to hear about the "whiplash".  It can be really painful and exhausting to try and make sense of it all.

You say you "don't know if you have the strength."  

Can you say more?  If you knew that you did "have the strength" what would the signs be, do you think?

Rev

Hi Rev,

I honestly just don't know how I am supposed to endure this pain. But I guess your point leads me to that I am still alive despite the pain. And the pain comes and goes. I feel stronger when I am with other people who love me. I feel stronger when I am with people who don't twist my words and make me feel like a bad person. And I feel stronger when I let myself envision my future without her. But the pain of thinking of her future without me often feels overwhelming.
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2022, 06:06:49 PM »

Botanist,

Good luck with everything. There are reasons why some people get attracted and even addicted to people with personality disorders who treat us so badly. I would give anything to be able to explore that with a therapist as a free agent and I think I sound weak because it’s like the final rule of my wife’s that I haven’t broken but there’s only so much “rocking” the boat can take. Her father told me, even before I joined bpd family, that actually I need to capsize the bxxxxy boat. I’m working on that.

Ultimately, I adore my children and I don’t want to leave them. I believe I was supposed to have them, which means My life was supposed to turn out this way. But my fear for their mental and emotional well-being is very great. Things were so calm for nearly a year, but then there are incidents which really worry me like recently when my wife swore and stormed off shouting, “I’ll F off then, I know when I’m not wanted!” Just because my daughter wanted me to read her story instead of my wife. Things like this have been rare recently but are still worrying. Of course I would rather raise my family with some one more stable and there’s little I can do about it but listen to the great advice on here.
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2022, 06:49:58 PM »

Despite all the advice, despite all that I have read, I tried to speak with her today. Everything completely fell apart.

Blaming me for the situation. Yelling at me and telling me she couldn't take this right now. I was sat crying on the couch as she just completely ignored me.



I decided enough is enough.

I am done being tossed around. I am done being manipulated and not heard. I blocked her and have deleted my social media and need a break from anything that feels like her. I am also arranging housing for me to move out of the town to focus on my work.

I feel so bad still. I feel like I am just affirming her worst fear, of being abandoned.

Her mother has BPD, and I was always so sorry for her experience and her pain of growing up with a parent like that.

I now know how confusing and horrible it is to just want to love a person who turns you into a demon and the source of all of their problems. I am done.

I need to find my own help.


What happened when you tried to speak to her follows the pattern of behavior described, and now you have seen this for yourself.

The statements in bold are positive actions on behalf of your own self care. You are worth this personal investment- a place to stay, a job, and seeking help.

Yes, you also have  compassion for her. That's normal. But you also can have compassion for yourself. It's sad that she grew up with someone who also probably did some hurtful things to her. Why some people turn out to have BPD and some don't is a combination of causes- one is genetic, one is environment- abuse, and yet, some people don't develop BPD with these circumstances and some people have none of them and still develop BPD.

The problem now is that she filters her experiences though this lens- you become her abuser to her and she plays out this emotional trauma with you in that role and as much as you feel empathy for her, it puts you in an abusive situation. You don't have to be the one to tolerate it. You can't change or fix this anyway. You can take care of you. Her situation is not your fault or your responsibility. You don't have to endure it.

I suggest you post on the recovering from a relationship section here on this board. You will find other posters who are also feeling how you feel. They have taken this path and will be a source of information and support for you.

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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2022, 07:43:29 PM »

The problem now is that she filters her experiences though this lens- you become her abuser to her and she plays out this emotional trauma with you in that role and as much as you feel empathy for her, it puts you in an abusive situation.

When I first got together with my wife it was clear this was happening when she actually had nightmares about being abused with me watching and laughing. Of course I didn’t recognise it at the time but that makes lots of sense now.
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