The forging of The Path

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Good stuff- especially the "exciting social engagement".  Have fun buddy, I'm still rooting for you.

Oh, an update on my stalker!  Last week, she kept asking, "Do you want to marry me or not?"  And I kept saying, "NOO...I've known you for like 2 weeks!"  Finally it clicked, I guess, and she broke up with me (not that we were together, but I let her have the win).  Five days pass and I don't hear from her.  Phew.  But today, she says I'm her best friend in the world and suddenly starts texting me nude photos of herself.

The moral of the story here, when you're dealing with crazy it's never over until it's over.   

Man, what a trip! You aren't kidding about crazy, Pook. Holy Hell.
My social engagement went quite well! it was a phenomonal night.

Tuesdays are always heavy with "gut feelings" and today is no different.
However rather than trying to figure it out, today I am just trying to let it come and go, ignore it and go on with my day.

Im done having my spirit and contentment shackled to the long dead corpse of a relationship.
A necromancer, I am NOT.

[OKrunch]

Good stuff- especially the "exciting social engagement".  Have fun buddy, I'm still rooting for you.

Oh, an update on my stalker!  Last week, she kept asking, "Do you want to marry me or not?"  And I kept saying, "NOO...I've known you for like 2 weeks!"  Finally it clicked, I guess, and she broke up with me (not that we were together, but I let her have the win).  Five days pass and I don't hear from her.  Phew.  But today, she says I'm her best friend in the world and suddenly starts texting me nude photos of herself.

The moral of the story here, when you're dealing with crazy it's never over until it's over.   

Man, what a trip! You aren't kidding about crazy, Pook. Holy Hell.
My social engagement went quite well! it was a phenomonal night.

Tuesdays are always heavy with "gut feelings" and today is no different.
However rather than trying to figure it out, today I am just trying to let it come and go, ignore it and go on with my day.

Im done having my spirit and contentment shackled to the long dead corpse of a relationship.
A necromancer, I am NOT.

[tina7868]

  Glad to hear you're doing well!

So, other than dark moments alone, mostly first in the morning and late at night, i am doing pretty well.

I can relate to finding these particular moments more difficult. I think they are the last parts to heal, if that makes sense.

What I found helpful is implementing routines with activities that make me feel good, when I have time. In the morning I don't linger too much in bed (because that is when I tend to ruminate), make coffee, and journal outdoors. At night I stretch and practice breathwork with the intention of letting go. I started putting aside ´rumination time´ throughout the day to sit down and write out all the thoughts that are bothering me. So far, just knowing I can think about the intrusive thoughts later has been enough... when I sit down I don't have anything to write because it isn't bothering me anymore!

[OKrunch]

So in order for you to move forward this thought of she is your ONE needs work. This particular thought process alone is very toxic and damaging and will keep you running in circles and stunting your growth. I would obviously disagree with your thought she was your ONE. How is that possible with how you were treated? How I see it is that you are settling on that notion and afraid to move on and you also feel you do not deserve better. My friend that is categorically false.

I understand the low points and how you feel, but please do some work to get rid of that trouble thought process and open your mind up to better opportunities and better people. If you do not work on getting rid of this thought process you are going to ruin any potential to find your ONE because you will keep comparing this woman to all and no offense...take the blinders off. If she was all that and a bag of chips you wouldn't be here and you wouldn't be in pain and misery.

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

SC, when i first read this, it pissed me off.
My first thought was "Im so sick of people telling me who to love, or to stop loving someone, if it were that easy...blah blah blah"

Upon some further reflection, i see this message for what it is, you trying to get me to respect myself.
Do I miss Jekyll, Hell yes. Do I miss our home, dogs, the kids together, and all the good times (which in my opinion still far outweighs the amount of bad times, but I dont have the magical black and white thinking)

However missing those things isnt enough. As i said in Tinas thread, She would need to very clearly choose me, which she very clearly, has done the opposite of.
I may love and miss her, and sometimes thats all we get.
a RELATIONSHIP is a two way street, and I was pulling the cart up the wrong one way, by myself, while she emotionally cheated, and treated me and my son like lepers.

The shoe will eventually swap feet, just like I know Ill be happy with my life, because Im going to ensure it.
Im sad to say i dont think she will ever be fully happy.
But her happiness is not my job. I was quite content to do all i could to make her happy, and that wasnt enough to fill the void in her.
No dog, or boyfriend, or job or house ever will.

Keep fighting Valkyrie, your battle isn't over. You still must face yourself.
Mine is though. I'm done fighting.
I hear a glass of Mead calling my name from Valhalla.
Iv'e earned my Warriors Rest.

[cranmango]

OKrunch and tina--just wanted to say thank you for sharing your perspectives. It is helpful to read, and gives me hope for my own recovery.

[Pook075]

I agree, thanks for sharing buddy. It's okay to get pissed off as well, to reject others opinions and not see them at face value.  But sometimes, that anger leads to the biggest breakthrough.  

If I could summarize what everyone has told you throughout this journey in one sentence, it would be this- "Love yourself first."  

Everything good in your life comes from you being balanced, stable, and happy.  The love for your son is critical, but if dad isn't happy then he can't love the kid 100% like he should.  The same with your ex, you want to reconcile but you're waiting on her to change and hoping for the best...and it's knocking you off your own path to happiness.  She's not the most important thing in your life- you are.  Then comes your son.  Then comes the new dog that you really need to get in that new apartment (hint, hint, LOL).

Just be you brother, and put your own happiness first.  It will spill out into everything and everyone around you, and that's when the good stuff happens in life.  Love yourself 1st!

[OKrunch]

I agree, thanks for sharing buddy. It's okay to get pissed off as well, to reject others opinions and not see them at face value.  But sometimes, that anger leads to the biggest breakthrough.  

It took some time of digesting that to see it for what it was. My anger was originally because it was conuter to what I want to happen, but after some reflection, its what needs to happen, and is happening.

If I could summarize what everyone has told you throughout this journey in one sentence, it would be this- "Love yourself first."   

As a "White Knight" and people pleaser, this comes difficultly to me. Even now with well over a month of NC, i still worry about her daughter everyday. I know my son is doing well. We had another good talk last night. Last i heard, her daughter was still struggling (and I know  she probably is as well, she always seems to find a reason to be) So its hard not to think of them and their needs, but she wanted to do everything alone, so she can.

Everything good in your life comes from you being balanced, stable, and happy.  The love for your son is critical, but if dad isn't happy then he can't love the kid 100% like he should.  The same with your ex, you want to reconcile but you're waiting on her to change and hoping for the best...and it's knocking you off your own path to happiness.  She's not the most important thing in your life- you are.  Then comes your son.  Then comes the new dog that you really need to get in that new apartment (hint, hint, LOL).

Originally, it was said that dogs arent allowed at my apartment, but i think with an established history of being a good tennant, i can make some wiggle room there eventually.
I cling to the good memories like a burr to wool.
Not a day goes by that I do not fondly remeber our trips, our home life, etc.
The dichotemy of this is not lost on me, as due to black and white thinking, Im certain she can only remeber the bad things, including those opinions and facts about be she fabricated out of sheer desperation to justify her narritive to push me away again.

Just be you brother, and put your own happiness first.  It will spill out into everything and everyone around you, and that's when the good stuff happens in life.  Love yourself 1st!

I am trying to live well. Establishing new habits and hobbies. Next is getting myself into a schedule of going to the climbing gym, saving money, and getting myself firmly established.

I vascilate between "She will never reach out again" Vs. "It's only a matter of time before she does"
I also vascilate between "I want her to" and "i hope she doesn't"

I think the desire for her to reach out is mostly my own ego at this point. Being spurnned is not good for ones self image.
To be spurnned multiple times, and in such a traumatizing manner has been quite shattering to my self esteem.
That said, spending time with others, and realizing how much value and attractiveness I do in fact still have has been like fresh aloe on a major sunburn.

[SinisterComplex]

SC, when i first read this, it pissed me off.
My first thought was "Im so sick of people telling me who to love, or to stop loving someone, if it were that easy...blah blah blah"

Upon some further reflection, i see this message for what it is, you trying to get me to respect myself.
Do I miss Jekyll, Hell yes. Do I miss our home, dogs, the kids together, and all the good times (which in my opinion still far outweighs the amount of bad times, but I dont have the magical black and white thinking)

However missing those things isnt enough. As i said in Tinas thread, She would need to very clearly choose me, which she very clearly, has done the opposite of.
I may love and miss her, and sometimes thats all we get.
a RELATIONSHIP is a two way street, and I was pulling the cart up the wrong one way, by myself, while she emotionally cheated, and treated me and my son like lepers.

The shoe will eventually swap feet, just like I know Ill be happy with my life, because Im going to ensure it.
Im sad to say i dont think she will ever be fully happy.
But her happiness is not my job. I was quite content to do all i could to make her happy, and that wasnt enough to fill the void in her.
No dog, or boyfriend, or job or house ever will.

Keep fighting Valkyrie, your battle isn't over. You still must face yourself.
Mine is though. I'm done fighting.
I hear a glass of Mead calling my name from Valhalla.
Iv'e earned my Warriors Rest.

Atta boy. Glad you took the time to reflect. Your initial reaction is not surprising and you would have been off base, but you took a step back and realized what I was actually conveying to you. This is good. Its too easy to get wrapped up in that initial rush of emotions and then miss the point entirely. I'm happy you caught on...albeit I did kind of smack ya with some tough love.

I'm not always going to coddle people...not my strong suit. What I will do is tell you what you need to hear, maybe not what you want to hear.

As you put together for yourself...my intent was to get you to respect yourself and to empower you. Honestly it had more to do with you, and not her really at all. Who you love is up to you and no one can tell you what to do. And btw my friend...none of this stuff is easy.

Please keep this at the forefront of your mind...Want Better, Expect Better, Do Better!

Keep your head up and keep pushing forward. You are going to come out of this a better person and a stronger person.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

the day to day is getting easier, and the temptations to reach out are less frequent.
That said, when they do occur, they are STRONG.

Its been over a month of NC now, it it just makes me more and more curious how a reach out would be taken.
Im still not going to do it, but it is on my mind a lot today.

The thought of her out having a good time with someone, and pretending like nothing happened and life is a ok is just a lot to process sometimes.

[Pook075]

the day to day is getting easier, and the temptations to reach out are less frequent.
That said, when they do occur, they are STRONG.

Its been over a month of NC now, it it just makes me more and more curious how a reach out would be taken.
Im still not going to do it, but it is on my mind a lot today.

The thought of her out having a good time with someone, and pretending like nothing happened and life is a ok is just a lot to process sometimes.

What helped me earlier on was knowing that whoever she was flirting with, whatever she was doing, it would eventually blow up in her face because she can't have a stable, mature relationship.  She'll run at the first sign of trouble and leave destruction in her path.  Why would I want to get back in that path when I'm smiling all the time, enjoying life, and actually healing from her toxin?

I understand that you still love her...and I still love my wife as well.  I actually wrote her a long letter a few days ago after she called me in crisis (only to berate me in the process of asking for emotional help).  I do want my wife back, but only the stable loving version that doesn't exist anymore.

It's funny, I was watching the old Star Wars right now and it's a good comparison- everyone loves young Anakin, but they hate Darth Vader.  And we're all wondering, why can't the funny, super cool kid just come back again?  But he can't, he's just eaten up with pain and grief to the point where his soul became evil.  I feel like that's my wife when it comes to us- she's freakin' evil with her bitterness, hate, and warped perspective. 

I do not EVER want to be with that person ever again, and I do not have the power to help her change and heal.  She's gotta embrace the force on her own, LOL.

[OKrunch]

It is currently 3:00 a.m. And I just got home.

The ghost of the past can still do some haunting.
 I had plans tomorrow to meet up with the  woman I have been spending time with. Technically we still have plans, but she called me and asked me to come over around 8:00 this evening, went over and had a good time and the intention was to sleep there so that we could go to the event we were going to tomorrow more logistically.  We had a nice night together he's very reluctant to have people sleep over. So I took this as a sign of continued built Trust.

 After some intimate time together, we were both trying to go to sleep.  Of course this is when a bunch of memories and emotions decided to come rolling in. I had almost fallen asleep and then I just couldn't. I couldn't get to sleep I couldn't get comfortable. My brain would not shut up.
 Began having an anxiety attack, eventually explaining to her that I couldn't sleep and was very uncomfortable. I told her It had nothing to do with her,  but I repeatedly apologized for it to which she sarcastically told me to cut the crap and stop over explaining and over apologizing. She was very understanding and told me to go get some sleep in my own bed.



Every Instinct they have tells me that I just blew it with her. Because that's how I'm trained to think. I am trained to blame myself I am trained to constantly be apologizing. I think she even picked up on that which is why she told me no hard feelings don't worry about it. After I drove home I texted her and let her know I was home and she said good messed up beating yourself up and get some sleep.

 I'm quite irritated right now. I was having a phenomenal night, this woman had expressly told me that she didn't generally invite people to stay over. This was showing a sign of trust from her and I blew it. I know that everything is fine with her and I, she explained that much.

 Now we come to the root of the problem.
 I felt like I was cheating. It felt dishonest to be sleeping in another woman's bed. We have been broken up for almost 8 months at this point. We haven't spoken in well over in a month, but yet I still feel dishonest and uncomfortable trying to sleep in another woman's bed. To the point where it gives me anxiety and I need to get up and leave. Things like this are what continue to make me feel like it's not over and that the story is not done. I never experienced anything remotely like this in the aftermath of my divorce. I feel like I'm never going to have peace, that it's never going to go away. Here i am actually doing all the things I know I need to in order to move on, yet I am still having anxiety attacks at times like this.
It is quite frustrating.
My mind is anything but sharp right now, its super late, im just purging the adreneline of anxiety out of my system.
Im going to meditate and get some actual sleep.
I will come back when I wake and reflect on this with a clear head.

[cranmango]

OKrunch—I hear you, my friend. I had a very similar experience recently. You did nothing wrong. The panicky feeling in the middle of the night sounds like a trauma response. Did your ex often accuse you of cheating? Mine sure did, all the time. And loads of other criticism, blaming, etc. Staying in that toxic dynamic makes us question ourselves and feel like we are in “trouble” if we do something our partner doesn’t like. That’s not the dynamic of a healthy adult relationship. It’s about control. The ghost of your ex is trying to control you now, because our brains have been trained to think that way.

But it won’t always feel that way. You are coping, you are growing. As hard as last night was, it won’t always be so hard. Time and distance from your ex  will take the edge off those intrusive memories.

You didn’t ruin anything. You were honest about your feelings, and she was supportive. That’s healthy!

For myself, I’ve decided to stay single for the time being. I need the thoughts of my ex to fade a bit more before I can fully open my heart to something new. Going on a few dates helped me realize I’m not quite ready for that. But it was also a huge boost of confidence that my ex isn’t nearly as special as I thought. So I’m getting there, one somewhat messy step at a time!

[Pook075]

It is currently 3:00 a.m. And I just got home.

The ghost of the past can still do some haunting.
 I had plans tomorrow to meet up with the  woman I have been spending time with. Technically we still have plans, but she called me and asked me to come over around 8:00 this evening, went over and had a good time and the intention was to sleep there so that we could go to the event we were going to tomorrow more logistically.  We had a nice night together he's very reluctant to have people sleep over. So I took this as a sign of continued built Trust.

 After some intimate time together, we were both trying to go to sleep.  Of course this is when a bunch of memories and emotions decided to come rolling in. I had almost fallen asleep and then I just couldn't. I couldn't get to sleep I couldn't get comfortable. My brain would not shut up.
 Began having an anxiety attack, eventually explaining to her that I couldn't sleep and was very uncomfortable. I told her It had nothing to do with her,  but I repeatedly apologized for it to which she sarcastically told me to cut the crap and stop over explaining and over apologizing. She was very understanding and told me to go get some sleep in my own bed.



Every Instinct they have tells me that I just blew it with her. Because that's how I'm trained to think. I am trained to blame myself I am trained to constantly be apologizing. I think she even picked up on that which is why she told me no hard feelings don't worry about it. After I drove home I texted her and let her know I was home and she said good messed up beating yourself up and get some sleep.

 I'm quite irritated right now. I was having a phenomenal night, this woman had expressly told me that she didn't generally invite people to stay over. This was showing a sign of trust from her and I blew it. I know that everything is fine with her and I, she explained that much.

 Now we come to the root of the problem.
 I felt like I was cheating. It felt dishonest to be sleeping in another woman's bed. We have been broken up for almost 8 months at this point. We haven't spoken in well over in a month, but yet I still feel dishonest and uncomfortable trying to sleep in another woman's bed. To the point where it gives me anxiety and I need to get up and leave. Things like this are what continue to make me feel like it's not over and that the story is not done. I never experienced anything remotely like this in the aftermath of my divorce. I feel like I'm never going to have peace, that it's never going to go away. Here i am actually doing all the things I know I need to in order to move on, yet I am still having anxiety attacks at times like this.
It is quite frustrating.
My mind is anything but sharp right now, its super late, im just purging the adreneline of anxiety out of my system.
Im going to meditate and get some actual sleep.
I will come back when I wake and reflect on this with a clear head.

Hey buddy.  You know my journey so you know that I faced something similar recently in a long distance relationship.  It didn't feel right and I broke it off quickly, not because of anxiety or regret, but just because that's not who I am or who I want to be.  You call it the universe, I call it faith in God, and there's no reason to split hairs here.  We both felt like it wasn't time to move on yet and that's perfectly fine.

First off, your new friend- you didn't blow anything.  The key to a healthy relationship is being open and honest.  Intimacy isn't about sex and making out, it's about showing someone we're close to our soul, our heart.  You did that and she responded appropriately, so don't start second guessing yourself over whether you blew it or not.  You didn't.  She understood and that tells me she's a pretty good gal already.

Now, about your ex.  The feelings bubbled up and made you feel guilt, shame, and self doubt.  You're a spiritual guy, what's the universe telling you by providing those emotions?  I know the answer and you know the answer, but you have to admit the answer to yourself and accept it.  

I'm in the exact same situation- my mind is telling me to move on, which I've done quite well.  My heart and soul are telling me to wait this out, which is very hard, painful, and confusing.  But recently I've discovered that I can do both at the same time, to live my life and be genuinely happy, while also being there for my ex however I can.  That means letting her live her life as well and letting your universe (my God) guide both our paths, wherever that may lead.  It's perfectly okay to do both at the same time, once you accept that your ex has free will and she's gotta make her own mistakes and learn from them, grow from them.

I'm still here for you buddy and I hop on here every day to check on you.  You're in my prayers and I know you've got this.

[OKrunch]

today is the anniversary of her grandfathers death.
I have had a sad, angry mood permiate most of my day.
Last night was bothering me but things are all set with the Woman im seeing, so were good there.

guts and intuition have been bananas strong today.

I want this all gone.
How does one love someone they activley dont want to love?
Its like the opposite problem as a BPD, who can go from In to Out to In love at the drop of a hat.

I just want my life to be normal again. Is that so much to ask?
Everyday has the added weight of "will she temp check today? What could I have done differently? Is she happy? Whats up with the new guy?"
and the damn near CONSTANT reliving of happy memories in my head, which only hurt to think of. I activley try to think of other things when this happens, and its gotten worse of late.
I. Just. Want. It. All. To. Stop.

I wish i could forget she existed.

[OKrunch]

Mood is shifiting, as NC goes on, my thoughts are less about what Ive lost, what I am missing and what someone else is "enjoying" in my absence, and much more about how unfair, fabricated and one sided a lot of the relationship was.
I am angry, but its a resolved, justified anger.

Was i perfect through the entire relationship? Obviously not. Was I a good partner and fiance, step parent and lover? YES
YES I WAS.
Furthermore, I have not had the issues with my temper at all since being on my own.
I havent yelled or gotten super angry at anything, but her, in the last 7 months.

I have realized how many of my own poor relationship behaviors were reactionary or defensive in nature, and are all but gone since she left me.

For some reason, during a meditation the other day, the Date of May 18th popped into my head, curious to see if anything happens on that date.

Guts have been very active of late. becoming almost daily.

[tina7868]

Furthermore, I have not had the issues with my temper at all since being on my own.
I havent yelled or gotten super angry at anything, but her, in the last 7 months.

I have realized how many of my own poor relationship behaviors were reactionary or defensive in nature, and are all but gone since she left me.

This is a powerful insight. If a relationship with someone is bringing out a side of you that isn't brought out in any other context, it's important to take a step back and evaluate why that was the case.

I personally felt very insecure, had gigantic mood swings, and would act on compulsions throughout the relationship with my ex.  While I have learned to better deal with those reactive behaviours now that I have had distance, I also realized that they were triggered by how he was behaving as well. I would feel insecure because he was inconsistent. I would have gigantic moodswings because he changed his mind at the drop of a hat. It's almost as if I was mirroring his behaviours. I didn't have a strong enough sense of self to recognize this was happening.

From what I gather, you and I are on the same wavelength in the sense that we would consider a friendly relationship with them some day. I think it's important for both of us to consider this aspect you brought up.

[Pook075]

This is a powerful insight. If a relationship with someone is bringing out a side of you that isn't brought out in any other context, it's important to take a step back and evaluate why that was the case.

I personally felt very insecure, had gigantic mood swings, and would act on compulsions throughout the relationship with my ex.  While I have learned to better deal with those reactive behaviours now that I have had distance, I also realized that they were triggered by how he was behaving as well. I would feel insecure because he was inconsistent. I would have gigantic moodswings because he changed his mind at the drop of a hat. It's almost as if I was mirroring his behaviours. I didn't have a strong enough sense of self to recognize this was happening.

From what I gather, you and I are on the same wavelength in the sense that we would consider a friendly relationship with them some day. I think it's important for both of us to consider this aspect you brought up.

I completely agree as I've realized that in myself as well.  So much of my stress is gone and now that I'm not walking on eggshells and fearing a simple statement to become an all-out war, I am a lot more at peace with myself.  It's almost like I know who I am now, the real me?  That may not make a lot of sense but for 24 years, I was holding so much back to avoid conflict and explosive behaviors.

Yesterday, I may have had the best day since our separation nine months ago.  Got up at 5:30 and was at a local park by 6 to walk, pray, and watch the sunrise.  McDonald's breakfast at 7, then got my oil changed and stopped by to see a friend that's struggling, was able to be a mentor and help him work thru a few things.  Then I went to the chiropractor, found out my uncle was sick as I was leaving and went to buy ingredients to make him lasagna.  Had it ready by noon and headed to their home, and it dawned on me that I was super busy & productive all morning long.  Can't remember the last time I finished 10+ things before lunchtime and it was a great feeling. 

Mostly though, it was just a great feeling being myself, being there for others, and having absolutely no judgement for doing what I wanted to do on a day off.

[OKrunch]

Its amazing to look back and see some of the bad personality / relationship traits WE Showed in the relationship, were potentially adaptive, and only present in response to incoming negative personality traits.

[tina7868]

So much of my stress is gone and now that I'm not walking on eggshells and fearing a simple statement to become an all-out war, I am a lot more at peace with myself.  

I sometimes feel anxious when expressing myself to others. It's a mixture of social anxiety, and the fear of being misunderstood, undoubtedly reinforced by years of setting out to say one thing only for it to be understood as something wildly different.

What I've come to realize lately is that, even if I don't select the exact right wording for what I want to say, my friends will understand the intent behind it, and if they don't, they'll ask questions. It's a feeling of...safety. Safety to be myself. I didn't realize this was missing in my old relationship.

Yesterday, I may have had the best day since our separation nine months ago.  Got up at 5:30 and was at a local park by 6 to walk, pray, and watch the sunrise.  McDonald's breakfast at 7, then got my oil changed and stopped by to see a friend that's struggling, was able to be a mentor and help him work thru a few things.  Then I went to the chiropractor, found out my uncle was sick as I was leaving and went to buy ingredients to make him lasagna.  Had it ready by noon and headed to their home, and it dawned on me that I was super busy & productive all morning long.  Can't remember the last time I finished 10+ things before lunchtime and it was a great feeling.

That sounds like a wonderful day . What resonates with me especially is the altruism involved: helping a struggling friend, making lasagna for your uncle. I have discovered that doing things for people around me, especially cooking, brings me so much joy. It's like I didn't have the energy to do it before, when I had tunnel vision focused on my ex. I can now be more present, and truly listen. People have apologized for taking up my time, but I feel like I now have infinite patience, because I am able to maintain healthy boundaries. When I feel tired, I identify I feel that way and withdraw, so that when I am present with someone it is because I truly want to be there.

Its amazing to look back and see some of the bad personality / relationship traits WE Showed in the relationship, were potentially adaptive, and only present in response to incoming negative personality traits.

If you had asked me to describe myself a few months ago, I would have said flawed. I constantly felt like I had to work on something. My ex would tell me I needed to see a therapist, and once directly said something along the lines of ´look at you grovel´. And I believed him, because wasn't I behaving irrationaly? Wasn't I groveling for scraps of his attention? I should have been asking myself, why am I letting someone say those things to me? Would I say this, in that awful tone, to someone I care about? His words and behaviours truly were more a reflection of him. If that is still how he expresses himself, I count myself lucky to no longer have him in my life.

This transformation in my thinking helps me integrate this old relationship in my life's story. It had to end for me to learn and grow.

[OKrunch]

Well, we just broke No Contact.
I kept seeing her "Chat Icon" pop up in my messenger, which it shouldn't becuase ive been blocked.
I hit the little "thumbs up" button to see if the message would go through.
About 20min later she replied with "?"
I sent a message back explaining that i was just curious about why the chat icon was showing up, as i though i was blocked.
She called me on the phone.
I answered, and she went on to explain that "She doesnt have me blocked, and that I have been playing the block / unblock game" - I told her I had blocked her once, and I never felt ok with it, so i had undone it ages ago and left it alone since.
She then went on to tell me that "things have been really bad", and Her Daughter was in the hospital over the issues shes been having with her. She then said the birthday gift i sent her had her daughter all upset, because she "fears me coming back". this still feels like defensive exatturation. Im not saying these things arent happening, but they arent my fault and she continues to frame them that way.
She then said "I know my dad sent you an email, and I know youre going to prentend you didnt read it"
I never got such an email, and I went and looked for one after. Nothing.
She said all of this in a very frustrated angry tone.
She is still acting like I am not leaving her alone, and I have been.
When she mentioned things have been hard, I told her " I know Ive felt it" and she told me "Dont tell me that! it was probably just your damn ex wife you were feeling!"

I didnt linger on the phone, i let her say her piece and then I got off the phone. Still, very odd.
Why call? that couldv'e easily been a text, and I dont buy half of it.

[Pook075]

Well, we just broke No Contact.
I kept seeing her "Chat Icon" pop up in my messenger, which it shouldn't becuase ive been blocked.
I hit the little "thumbs up" button to see if the message would go through.
About 20min later she replied with "?"
I sent a message back explaining that i was just curious about why the chat icon was showing up, as i though i was blocked.
She called me on the phone.
I answered, and she went on to explain that "She doesnt have me blocked, and that I have been playing the block / unblock game" - I told her I had blocked her once, and I never felt ok with it, so i had undone it ages ago and left it alone since.
She then went on to tell me that "things have been really bad", and Her Daughter was in the hospital over the issues shes been having with her. She then said the birthday gift i sent her had her daughter all upset, because she "fears me coming back". this still feels like defensive exatturation. Im not saying these things arent happening, but they arent my fault and she continues to frame them that way.
She then said "I know my dad sent you an email, and I know youre going to prentend you didnt read it"
I never got such an email, and I went and looked for one after. Nothing.
She said all of this in a very frustrated angry tone.
She is still acting like I am not leaving her alone, and I have been.
When she mentioned things have been hard, I told her " I know Ive felt it" and she told me "Dont tell me that! it was probably just your damn ex wife you were feeling!"

I didnt linger on the phone, i let her say her piece and then I got off the phone. Still, very odd.
Why call? that couldv'e easily been a text, and I dont buy half of it.

Hey buddy.  I'm glad you had a conversation, even if it was brief and not particularly helpful for you.  But let me try to read between the lines a little bit.

You blocked her, she blocked you, and before long you guys forgot who had who blocked last.  With minimal contact, she reached out.

Next, she opens up about things not being good.  You may be quick to dismiss that, but she did show a little vulnerability here and give a glimpse into her world.  Things aren't working out for her at the moment.  You didn't say how you responded though and that's a big piece here.  Did you show empathy?  Indifference?

Next, she brings up the gift that upset her daughter.  Who knows if this is true or not, but we've already heard the kid is not doing well so I think you have to take this at face value.  Her daughter is not okay and it's because of how the relationship deteriorated towards the end.  I'm not saying it was your fault here, but it takes two people to argue, to lash out.  My kids recently told me that they were traumatized from how my wife and I used to argue 15+ years ago...it doesn't matter who started it or who was right or wrong. 

Just accept that it could have had an unintentional fallout for the kid...you absolutely played a part in that.  Did you ask her for additional details on what's happening with the kid?  That would have been nice to validate her concerns and her emotions.

Next, the email from dad.  My advice?  Call her dad and say you never got an email.  My guess would be to tell you to stay away from that family, but at the same time it would give you an opportunity to get the closest possible thing to closure.  Call or email the dad!

For the final part, "you didn't 'feel' things were bad", that's classic BPD at work.  She thinks you don't care about her, so how could you possibly care about her or feel any sort of connection?  That's unfortunate, but it is what it is.  There's no way to talk past that until your ex accepts that her viewpoints could potentially be flawed.

To answer your question- why call.  Because she wanted to call, she wanted to rant, she wanted to pass blame to make herself feel better.  That's the narcissistic traits bubbling up and lashing out.  The other side to that though is that she didn't know what she'd say when she called, maybe she hoped for a decent conversation.  Maybe she hoped you moved to France.  Who knows what the motivations are when someone is dysregulated.

[OKrunch]

Hey buddy.  I'm glad you had a conversation, even if it was brief and not particularly helpful for you.  But let me try to read between the lines a little bit.

You blocked her, she blocked you, and before long you guys forgot who had who blocked last.  With minimal contact, she reached out.

Next, she opens up about things not being good.  You may be quick to dismiss that, but she did show a little vulnerability here and give a glimpse into her world.  Things aren't working out for her at the moment.  You didn't say how you responded though and that's a big piece here.  Did you show empathy?  Indifference?
I told her I had been worried/thinking about her daughter, and that I was sorry to hear she was having difficulties. This is when I menationed being able to feel her bad days, and when she said it was likely just my ex wife.
I tried to show empathy, because I legit care about her daughter, but she cut me off mid sentence

Next, she brings up the gift that upset her daughter.  Who knows if this is true or not, but we've already heard the kid is not doing well so I think you have to take this at face value.  Her daughter is not okay and it's because of how the relationship deteriorated towards the end.  I'm not saying it was your fault here, but it takes two people to argue, to lash out.  My kids recently told me that they were traumatized from how my wife and I used to argue 15+ years ago...it doesn't matter who started it or who was right or wrong. 
I agree 1000% here. My son has said that he is more at peace, I do not want to cause her daughter ANY undue stress, i adorer that little lady. If she needs to blame me for the issues, in order to put her daughter first and focus on that, so be it.

Just accept that it could have had an unintentional fallout for the kid...you absolutely played a part in that.  Did you ask her for additional details on what's happening with the kid?  That would have been nice to validate her concerns and her emotions.
Again, I had tried to get some details and really inqure as to how her daughter was doing, but got cut off. She knows I care a lot about her daughter, and I think this is also why she has been a main topic the last two times we've talked. I think in her mind, I will push a boundary with her, but if its her daughter, she knows I would never do a thing to upset that, but I do believe that these things are happening with her daughter, just that her blame is unfairly allocated therein

Next, the email from dad.  My advice?  Call her dad and say you never got an email.  My guess would be to tell you to stay away from that family, but at the same time it would give you an opportunity to get the closest possible thing to closure.  Call or email the dad!
Her dad is notoriously cowardly and do nothing. this was a consistant major issue during her childhood. She was being mistreated by her mother, and dad was nowhere around and did nothing about it. Even during our reltationship she frequently complained that he was full of empty promises and was generally unreliable. My guess is that she was complaining to her father about me, likely around when the birthday gift i sent was, and he SAID he would email me, and never actually did.
or she just completley made that up. Either way, I almost never talked to her dad in the past (except for one time I had to reach out to him because she was struggling with mental health (suicidal idiations), and plainly wanted family support and I had to basically tell him "your daughter needs you, please call her" - AND HE DIDNT) So I wont be calling her dad or emailing him. Waste of time and energy.

For the final part, "you didn't 'feel' things were bad", that's classic BPD at work.  She thinks you don't care about her, so how could you possibly care about her or feel any sort of connection?  That's unfortunate, but it is what it is.  There's no way to talk past that until your ex accepts that her viewpoints could potentially be flawed.

To answer your question- why call.  Because she wanted to call, she wanted to rant, she wanted to pass blame to make herself feel better.  That's the narcissistic traits bubbling up and lashing out.  The other side to that though is that she didn't know what she'd say when she called, maybe she hoped for a decent conversation.  Maybe she hoped you moved to France.  Who knows what the motivations are when someone is dysregulated.

You hit the nail on the head, with the section i underlined. She was heated the whole time we were on the phone. She DOES have a lot going on right now, and I am a convenient person who is already painted black, so easy to plug blame into.


My biggest takeaway from this conversation is that it didnt emotionally floor me like it would have in the past.
I had done a salt cleansing meditation earlier in the day to, with the intention of cord cutting, and it was pretty moving.

[OKrunch]

 OMFG , Yesterday was completley eventless. No Twisties (spidey sense) or anything. This morning they ramped up as I rolled into work, then SPIKED like madhouse in the last 20 min. She just texted me - I have NOT reached out since the event saturday. "Im sorry for reaching out Saturday after saying you shouldn't. Have you seen my national parks passport? Its not in my library, I can trade with you when i bring by some of your stuff. Im going through the shed soon" I have not replied. She just sent that like 15 min ago. YET again, I begin trying to prove to myself that my twisties are simply my anxiety, and she proves me wrong yet again.

Obviously the contact was more jarring to her than me...

[OKrunch]

I didnt reply, and yet she sent several more messages throughout the day.

Very odd 180 in her behavior.

[SinisterComplex]

I didnt reply, and yet she sent several more messages throughout the day.

Very odd 180 in her behavior.

Actually not odd 180 in the behavior at all. More predictable. You're not bowing to her demands and being a pushover rolling out the red carpet for her.

You're less available and she feels the disconnect so she has to re-engage to gauge her sense of control over you.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Actually not odd 180 in the behavior at all. More predictable. You're not bowing to her demands and being a pushover rolling out the red carpet for her.

You're less available and she feels the disconnect so she has to re-engage to gauge her sense of control over you.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

I suppose that explains why something that couldve been accomplished in a single text (Or, that by her own admission, didnt need to be addressed at all, one of the messages said "If its inconveneint to look for it, don't go out of your way")  has turned into a phone call and several texts

[tina7868]

How are you feeling?

[Pook075]

Actually not odd 180 in the behavior at all. More predictable. You're not bowing to her demands and being a pushover rolling out the red carpet for her.

You're less available and she feels the disconnect so she has to re-engage to gauge her sense of control over you.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

I completely agree.  In her viewpoint, she still controls the relationship by saying "don't contact me."  But when she contacts you and you're not rolling out the red carpet, it makes her question if she's fully in control.  So she reaches out more.

The truth is she's not in control at all, not the way she thinks anyway.  But that's the push/pull dynamic and it's all centered around manipulation.  She probably doesn't even realize she's doing it, so don't try to read too deep past the surface level.

[OKrunch]

I am feeling good. It was a good experience honestly. I had been dreading whenever contact happened, and it did, and it barely affected me.

Pook, I agree with what you said. Her response feels like a reflex action, and subconcious.
I am just continuing as though it didnt even happen.

I literally have options when it comes to dating right now, and Im not even really pursuing them. Ive got other stuff to worry about first.

[SinisterComplex]

I am feeling good. It was a good experience honestly. I had been dreading whenever contact happened, and it did, and it barely affected me.

Pook, I agree with what you said. Her response feels like a reflex action, and subconcious.
I am just continuing as though it didnt even happen.

I literally have options when it comes to dating right now, and Im not even really pursuing them. Ive got other stuff to worry about first.

Providing another Atta Boy because well good job! It sounds to me like mentally you are adopting an abundancy mind set and coming from a place of power. This is good. Also...see now you are not weak. You are strong. Keep on keeping on my friend.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Its definitley a step in the right direction.

Do i still want her to apologize, reach out, miss me, etc?
 Yea.

Do I care if she doesn't?
Not really anymore.