moving forward - what questions should I be pondering?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

However, step back and look at what you said. In a sense it is almost a way of saying you do not feel you are good enough to be your authentic self to people. I am pretty sure you want to have authentic and genuine people around you right? So how about we have you work on the other end of that...focus more on just being you...warts and all. That is the only way you will start to draw the positive energy and the right people to you.

Remember the universe kinda works like a mirror...you get back what you put out.

Keep your head up Tina. You are taking baby steps and making progress. I am happy for you and proud of you.

I have been trying to intentionally share how I really feel lately (when asked  ). I find myself automatically replying things like `so far so good` or `pretty good overall`, and then catching myself and ansering more sincerely (in the right context). Especially as I am still getting used to a new job, there is a lot to process, but people around me recognize that and have been understanding. However, I also realize that I am very worried about letting them down! It`s like I am waiting for `something bad` to happen, and as a result I sort of distance myself from not only people, but also fully embracing my career, because if something goes wrong I don`t want it to hurt me as much (which is a lie, because I know it would still hurt me).

And even if everything is going well, I tend to find something to fixate on and obsess about (financial, my health, what my friends really think about me), even if objectively, there is nothing to worry about. Even if there was something to worry about, playing it over in my head in this way certainly isn`t the solution!

A good example of this was overhearing two colleagues saying that they really liked me. My reaction isn`t to feel flattered (I really like them too and think they`re great!), but to feel incredibly worried about making a mistake that will change their view of me.

What especially motivates me to change is that, with these habits, even if I had my dream life tomorrow, I would still struggle because it would plague me that everything would go away. And so I wouldn`t even enjoy it, and to me that is so sad.

[tina7868]

However, step back and look at what you said. In a sense it is almost a way of saying you do not feel you are good enough to be your authentic self to people. I am pretty sure you want to have authentic and genuine people around you right? So how about we have you work on the other end of that...focus more on just being you...warts and all. That is the only way you will start to draw the positive energy and the right people to you.

Remember the universe kinda works like a mirror...you get back what you put out.

Keep your head up Tina. You are taking baby steps and making progress. I am happy for you and proud of you.

I have been trying to intentionally share how I really feel lately (when asked  ). I find myself automatically replying things like `so far so good` or `pretty good overall`, and then catching myself and ansering more sincerely (in the right context). Especially as I am still getting used to a new job, there is a lot to process, but people around me recognize that and have been understanding. However, I also realize that I am very worried about letting them down! It`s like I am waiting for `something bad` to happen, and as a result I sort of distance myself from not only people, but also fully embracing my career, because if something goes wrong I don`t want it to hurt me as much (which is a lie, because I know it would still hurt me).

And even if everything is going well, I tend to find something to fixate on and obsess about (financial, my health, what my friends really think about me), even if objectively, there is nothing to worry about. Even if there was something to worry about, playing it over in my head in this way certainly isn`t the solution!

A good example of this was overhearing two colleagues saying that they really liked me. My reaction isn`t to feel flattered (I really like them too and think they`re great!), but to feel incredibly worried about making a mistake that will change their view of me.

What especially motivates me to change is that, with these habits, even if I had my dream life tomorrow, I would still struggle because it would plague me that everything would go away. And so I wouldn`t even enjoy it, and to me that is so sad.

[SinisterComplex]

I have been trying to intentionally share how I really feel lately (when asked  ). I find myself automatically replying things like `so far so good` or `pretty good overall`, and then catching myself and ansering more sincerely (in the right context). Especially as I am still getting used to a new job, there is a lot to process, but people around me recognize that and have been understanding. However, I also realize that I am very worried about letting them down! It`s like I am waiting for `something bad` to happen, and as a result I sort of distance myself from not only people, but also fully embracing my career, because if something goes wrong I don`t want it to hurt me as much (which is a lie, because I know it would still hurt me).

And even if everything is going well, I tend to find something to fixate on and obsess about (financial, my health, what my friends really think about me), even if objectively, there is nothing to worry about. Even if there was something to worry about, playing it over in my head in this way certainly isn`t the solution!

A good example of this was overhearing two colleagues saying that they really liked me. My reaction isn`t to feel flattered (I really like them too and think they`re great!), but to feel incredibly worried about making a mistake that will change their view of me.

What especially motivates me to change is that, with these habits, even if I had my dream life tomorrow, I would still struggle because it would plague me that everything would go away. And so I wouldn`t even enjoy it, and to me that is so sad.

Ok, sooo.....it is going to take a while, but let's have you focus on not worrying so much about messing anything up and people not liking you. Seriously if people changed their view of you that quickly then guess what? You don't want those people around anyway.

Hey as an example, as goofy as it may seem...you could mess up here and say something snarky to me and do you think I am going to automatically not like you or change my view? That sounds a bit absurd and immature doesn't it? We're adults so we can be more understanding of one another and work to help one another and let S slide off our backs like rain drops on a rain coat. My point is...don't worry about that stuff so much. I think more people will be understanding and accepting then you are giving them credit for.

Tina, just always keep the frame of mind that you are not perfect and you are going to make mistakes, screw up, mess up, etc. But guess what? Everyone else does as well. Cut yourself some slack and don't put so much pressure on yourself. Having that kind of anxiety is unhealthy for anyone to carry around.

Be YOU, Do YOU. Okay?

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Be YOU, Do YOU.

I think I'm entering a new phase of my journey where this is my motto!

A recent conversation with a friend prompted me to snap out of a rut I was in (aren`t those conversations the best!?). I was talking to her about a huge and embarassing crush I had when I was younger on a teacher who was 20 years older than me. The cringy things I did and said all make me smile now. We had a good heartfelt laugh. I realized that, even then, I was quite intense, having written somewhere in my journal `these diary entries will bear witness to my descent into despair`    . It even shaped to a large extent what I ended up studying. So dramatic!

Of course, an unattainable crush and a relationship are not the same thing, but I can see how my overall behaviour has more to do with me than with the other person. It even took me a while to get over that painful crush, so, in many ways, I am ahead of the game with this one  . I remember also concluding at that I would just live my life, and accept that I won`t get over it.

What`s cool now is that I have the time to learn about these tendencies I have, and embrace myself, so that I can avoid always being lost in someone else. I can find other avenues that make me feel whole.

When it comes to the future, staying single doesn`t seem so terrible. Not my first choice, but I am not willing to compromise on feeling in love with a person. Although I feel closed off to meeting someone new right now, history has shown I have felt this exact way before and then met someone! Finally, if I do hear from my ex again, I`ll have grown a lot.

i suspect you were, and to some extent pride yourself in being, a loving and adoring partner, one that builds her partner up, one that will look right past your flaws and love you in spite of them. and you gave it your all. you didnt need him to be your "equal" in that regard, either; just to accept it and return it.

It's pretty wild to be that someone over the web has been able to read me so well, and in a way that I hadn`t been able to read myself! I embrace that this is the way I am. I am stubborn, I am intense, it takes me forever to get over things I care about, I can be obsessive. I stumbled so much along the way. Even at the point I am at now, I can admit that I made decisions that brought me physically closer to my ex, in the hopes that I`d hear from him again...and I haven`t. What was I hoping for exactly? The truth is I didn`t really think it through, I was hoping for something, my heart brought me here.

So that`s where I am today.

[once removed]

I embrace that this is the way I am. I am stubborn, I am intense, it takes me forever to get over things I care about, I can be obsessive.

ah, a kindred spirit!

a few different things can be true:

1. after say, high school, and to some degree even before that, we increasingly "are who we are", and are fairly set in our ways. our personality traits, in particular, are largely set.

2. we all develop coping mechanisms in childhood, that have to do with these personality traits (as well as our family dynamics). many (most?) of us will develop some coping mechanisms that we find out no longer serve us in adulthood. some of us carry them for a long time, or forever, or we learn new and better coping mechanisms.

3. if you dont embrace who you are, its difficult to define yourself, love yourself, or be loved for who you are.

4. if you cant adapt, conform, change, have the emotional maturity to make different choices, see other peoples needs/limitations, accept and take on criticism, if you are too dogmatic/rigid about "who you are", it will make it difficult to have a relationship with very many people, or navigate life successfully.

take "obsessive" for example. for the record, i am quite likely, a walking undiagnosed person with obsessive compulsive disorder. i have been an obsessive person for as far back as i have memory. i am a casual fan of virtually nothing; what i like, i love, not just with a passion, but often obsessively. i would go so far as to say it is and always has been a defining characteristic of me. in fact, if you know that alone about me, you get a pretty good chunk of who and how i am.

good or bad thing?

well, its a thing, it is what it is, and in general, its never going to change.  

on the plus side, i think it gives me a deep level of appreciation for things that bring me joy. it gives me a drive to be not just good, but ever improving, at the things i like and am good at. on the more negative side, it can be debilitating! i look back on the ruminating i did during my breakup, which i think was up there with the best of them, and i feel exhausted imagining the 24/7 loop my brain was in. it has also had a clear negative impact in my romantic relationships, and even non romantic ones.

i could say "i am who i am", change nothing, and continue as i was. and in some cases, thats a/the healthy thing to do. in my case, it wasnt so much "being obsessive" that needed adapting, but the way that i coped with it that no longer served me.

"who we are" is a balance, with who we are in, and how we adapt to, a given environment, along with "who everyone else is". we simply arent made to get along with, and fit perfectly, with everyone, or we would be completely undefined. but we, as a species, are made for bonding and connecting with others. to do that successfully, "who we are" has to be able to mesh with "who they are", and to thrive, has to be flexible and able to adapt to a given environment.

a healthy and whole person can identify and define themselves, and their relationships with others, and still be open and able to take on (or reject!) criticism (whether its self directed or external), to simultaneously recognize their own needs and those of others, to reconsider, adjust, and adapt to their environment. but there are two kinds of unhealthy. the first is a person who is undefined. the second is a person who is so defined as to say "i am who i am, and if we dont get along, youre the problem".

the ability to self differentiate, and the ability to cope in a healthy way, are far more important questions as it applies to "who we are" than our individual characteristics.

[tina7868]

a healthy and whole person can identify and define themselves, and their relationships with others, and still be open and able to take on (or reject!) criticism (whether its self directed or external), to simultaneously recognize their own needs and those of others, to reconsider, adjust, and adapt to their environment. but there are two kinds of unhealthy. the first is a person who is undefined. the second is a person who is so defined as to say "i am who i am, and if we dont get along, youre the problem".

the ability to self differentiate, and the ability to cope in a healthy way, are far more important questions as it applies to "who we are" than our individual characteristics.

I think I get what you`re saying. I want to ponder this more when I feel less down. I don`t think I am very good at ajusting and adapting. I do think I `bounce back` rather quickly, usually through force of will and belief, but the lows can be quite low.

OCD, depression, and anxiety run in my family. I feel like in today`s society a lot of the symptoms associated with these disorders are normalized. But, I have seen what it can do later on in life, when there is still this battle going on in your mind, superimposed on whatever situation you find yourself in. 

I think OCD manifests for me through `thought monitoring` and magic thinking. I am fixated on this idea that if I adopt the `right` mindset, my ex will pop back up into my life. Not to make up excuses, but it was reinforced by years of him telling me he didn`t want to talk ever again, and me going through many different emotions (good riddance! oh how I miss him! maybe it wasn`t meant to be!). I can remember exact moments of when I heard from him again, often when I was busy doing something else, once or twice while I was praying for it with all my heart. So now, when I can`t settle on a way of seeing things, especially a day like today when my emotional regulation is off, I feel a lot of despair.

Today is not a good day for me. Mind you, I`m running on very little sleep. For the first time in...years, I feel like giving up. Not hoping to hear from him, also not hoping things get better (because I can`t imagine myself with anyone either). Just the vibe of living in a shed in the middle of the forest. Although I can easily isolate myself here in the city as well I guess. Things going through my mind :

- will I hear from him again?
- his birthday is coming up soon...

At least he was super clear, the ball is completely in his court so I am not considering reaching out.

[once removed]

im sorry you had a tough day.

I am fixated on this idea that if I adopt the `right` mindset, my ex will pop back up into my life.

what would it mean to you if you did hear from him? as in, what would the significance of it be?

in your mind, how would you like to see it go? even if its fantastical, what do you imagine happening?

[SinisterComplex]

I think I get what you`re saying. I want to ponder this more when I feel less down. I don`t think I am very good at ajusting and adapting. I do think I `bounce back` rather quickly, usually through force of will and belief, but the lows can be quite low.

OCD, depression, and anxiety run in my family. I feel like in today`s society a lot of the symptoms associated with these disorders are normalized. But, I have seen what it can do later on in life, when there is still this battle going on in your mind, superimposed on whatever situation you find yourself in. 

I think OCD manifests for me through `thought monitoring` and magic thinking. I am fixated on this idea that if I adopt the `right` mindset, my ex will pop back up into my life. Not to make up excuses, but it was reinforced by years of him telling me he didn`t want to talk ever again, and me going through many different emotions (good riddance! oh how I miss him! maybe it wasn`t meant to be!). I can remember exact moments of when I heard from him again, often when I was busy doing something else, once or twice while I was praying for it with all my heart. So now, when I can`t settle on a way of seeing things, especially a day like today when my emotional regulation is off, I feel a lot of despair.

Today is not a good day for me. Mind you, I`m running on very little sleep. For the first time in...years, I feel like giving up. Not hoping to hear from him, also not hoping things get better (because I can`t imagine myself with anyone either). Just the vibe of living in a shed in the middle of the forest. Although I can easily isolate myself here in the city as well I guess. Things going through my mind :

- will I hear from him again?
- his birthday is coming up soon...

At least he was super clear, the ball is completely in his court so I am not considering reaching out.

I would say you are correct in the notion that OCD, anxiety get somewhat normalized. I would say that may have something to do with sports. You may go what? Well saying oh they are just ultra competitive is usually the cover for someone who has OCPD, not to be confused with OCD. Think of those with OCPD as being perfectionists to the extreme. While these issues get normalized people need to still treat them with respect and not just dismiss them.

Keep your head up Tina. Sorry you had a rough day, but the good news is...it was just a bad day. Many more good days to come ahead that will balance out the bad.

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Sorry you had a rough day, but the good news is...it was just a bad day. Many more good days to come ahead that will balance out the bad.

Ain`t that the truth 

what would it mean to you if you did hear from him? as in, what would the significance of it be?

in your mind, how would you like to see it go? even if its fantastical, what do you imagine happening?

Thank you for these prompts! I had a good journaling session out of them. I would say I usually am afraid of approaching these questions, because I fear the disappointment of confronting my reality vs. how I would like to see things. For some reason, I didn`t feel that way. I ended on a feeling of relief! I am also a bit embarassed to share these dreams with other people. Please bear with me.

My far off fantastical wildest dream is that we reconnect in person, over a cozy dinner. A long walk in nature. Let go of the past, and have a new meeting of sorts of the people we have grown into. A connection is still there, and the dream we once had together of building a life slowly comes to fruition. We grow vegetables.

I am a dreamer, and I like it that way. Here are other realizations that came out of this exercise.

When I imagined myself in the position of actually talking to him, I realized I wanted to `show` him all the things I`ve achieved, instead of being natural and authentic. But I think I come off that way because the last few times I spoke to him, I felt so on guard because I was worried I`d say the wrong and he`d disappear again. So, I had this way of speaking that was sort of detached and like `I don`t need you anyways`. And I really did hate that cycle, the anxiety and questioning of myself that came with it.

Also, I realized that I did not like hearing snippets of what his relationship was like. We`ve established that I suck at letting go. I imagined our lives together as a couple for too long, to put myself in a position where I can pretend I don`t care. 

So, these points kind of made me feel like...I`d rather not hear from him if it would hurt me? I`d rather keep my peace, or whatever part of the process I`m at now.

[SinisterComplex]

So why do you think it is that you seek so much validation from him? Why is it so important that he see your growth? Why does it matter? Just food for thought.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

So why do you think it is that you seek so much validation from him? Why is it so important that he see your growth? Why does it matter? Just food for thought.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thank you for prompting me with this question. It brought me to asking it on a wider scale: why do I seek validation from anyone outside of myself in general? I noticed that I will often `monitor` conversations, focusing on how I come off. Yet, as was brought up before, I believe this creates a sort of barrier between me and whoever I`m talking to. I don`t think I am rude or aloof; the real disadvantage from this is me not feeling like I am being myself.

I`ll make of point of being present in conversations, and focusing on the connection I have in the moment with the other people involved, instead of what I am saying. When I think about the people I know who I admire the most, they have an easy-going acceptance and confidence about themselves that makes them comfortable to be around. I hope to be like that too.

Everything is sort of intertwined. If I can feel more comfortable with myself and give myself the validation I need in different aspects of my life, I won`t seek it so much from one other person in particular. Then, sure, having a conversation with him would be nice, but it wouldn`t be anything I didn`t feel `prepared` for.

[tina7868]

Hello hello! I wanted to write a quick post about an itch. I noticed my ex was looking at one of my online profiles (on that website you get notifications when someone has viewed you), and then I have also started getting called by `no caller id`. When I answer, I can hear someone is there but they don`t say anything. I have gotten calls like this before, a few months ago, and when I looked into it I dismissed it as `robocalls` (scammers trying to check if my phone number is active).

I don`t want to read into any of this (but my brain is going ahead and doing it anyways). I know these things don`t `mean`anything concrete, can`t be verified, and shouldn`t bother me. I recognize that I don`t feel as fixated as I would have in the past, because I recognize it brings me nowhere, but I just wanted to share.

[once removed]

I'm of the mind that breather calls usually aren't an ex. It's a great deal of trouble to go to with not much point. It's also a common thing people experience.

Having said that, my ex did some weird stuff after our breakup. Getting into my email, reading only select stuff (usually Facebook messages from girls) and continued to do it after she was outed. That didn't make a lot of sense either. Hard to picture her doing.

What is true is that often times, people will do weird checking up on people, or reaching out, we've all been there, and often times, it's good to choose a method that saves face or has plausible deniability. Someone with bpd traits with shame and rejection sensitivity will certainly do that.

I don't think it's ultimately surprising though, that he's checking up on you on social media. It's the single best way, and we've all done it. He's someone who has cared about you for a long time. It makes sense that he would.

I've hesitated to say this, because it's something you've been working to come to your own terms about, and because I don't have any real idea, but it is reasonably likely that you're going to hear from him at some point, in some way. Why? People don't like to end on a bad note. It's why so many of us came here; the ending left us unsettled. That's not necessarily any less true for our partners. He probably feels like a jerk for how he handled things, too.

People, at some point, tend to want to reconnect to play "I'm okay, you're okay". And that can be especially true for someone with bpd traits, who don't like to sit with the thought that you might see them badly.

It isn't any guarantee, of course. The shame and fear of that potential rejection can scare someone out of it, or whatever other coping mechanism they employ. But it's a very reasonable likelihood.

Theres also a reasonable likelihood that if it happens, it may be anticlimactic, or leave a bad taste in your mouth.

[tina7868]

I'm of the mind that breather calls usually aren't an ex. It's a great deal of trouble to go to with not much point. It's also a common thing people experience.

Having said that, my ex did some weird stuff after our breakup. Getting into my email, reading only select stuff (usually Facebook messages from girls) and continued to do it after she was outed. That didn't make a lot of sense either. Hard to picture her doing.

What is true is that often times, people will do weird checking up on people, or reaching out, we've all been there, and often times, it's good to choose a method that saves face or has plausible deniability. Someone with bpd traits with shame and rejection sensitivity will certainly do that.

Thanks for putting things into perspective; it certainly feels better to be given a down to earth reality check than to let these thoughts fester in my mind.

I've hesitated to say this, because it's something you've been working to come to your own terms about, and because I don't have any real idea, but it is reasonably likely that you're going to hear from him at some point, in some way. Why? People don't like to end on a bad note. It's why so many of us came here; the ending left us unsettled. That's not necessarily any less true for our partners. He probably feels like a jerk for how he handled things, too.

I don’t think hearing that I might hear from him earlier would have been helpful…I’d have latched onto that. Now, with some time and healing, I can think about how I’d respond and let go of whether it happens or not.

What you wrote reminds me of some things my ex told me the last few times we spoke. Things like “now that we have all the yelling out of the way”, and “I guess we’re passed hating each other”. I was confused because there was no yelling, and I never said or even felt like I hated him. Yes, I was hurt, but I am not one to hold grudges, I thought he knew that about me. I like him too much to hold anything against him, to my own detriment.

People, at some point, tend to want to reconnect to play "I'm okay, you're okay". And that can be especially true for someone with bpd traits, who don't like to sit with the thought that you might see them badly.

See, this I don’t like. Honestly, I don’t know if it’s me being stubborn, but if he just wants to reach out to gather a bunch of info about me (Where are you working? What’s your salary? Are you seeing anyone?) and then disappear again, then I’d rather not talk to him at all. He did that before and I ended up feeling cheap, like I divulged information. I don’t want to hear about his girlfriend either, it gives me more to ruminate about.

I don’t know where this adamant energy is coming from, but I don’t want to be in that position again. Knowing myself though, I’d probably give in and just tell him to take care of himself and all is well. Maybe it’s best for me to just completely lower expectations, let it go, and say that I wish him well. At least then I’ll be acting with my values and letting myself move on, despite all the hopes that I had that are maybe not well founded.

[once removed]

Thanks for putting things into perspective; it certainly feels better to be given a down to earth reality check than to let these thoughts fester in my mind.

well, to be clear, im saying while i think its unlikely the breather calls would be him, i wouldnt say its impossible. people do sometimes go out of their way to do weird things.

but you arent likely to ever know if its him either way. with the online peeking, you know.

What you wrote reminds me of some things my ex told me the last few times we spoke. Things like “now that we have all the yelling out of the way”, and “I guess we’re passed hating each other”

this is a bpdish sort of thing. that fear of rejection and vulnerability, their perception of our perception of them, his narrative of the whole thing would probably surprise you. i cant read his mind obviously, but "im sure she hates me" would be similarly bpdish. i remember my own ex telling me that she understood my need for alone time was actually "i know you need to get away from me". as if the very concept of the need for alone time, something she has experienced and ordinarily could easily articulate, went out the window when it came to me.

See, this I don’t like. Honestly, I don’t know if it’s me being stubborn, but if he just wants to reach out to gather a bunch of info about me (Where are you working? What’s your salary? Are you seeing anyone?) and then disappear again, then I’d rather not talk to him at all. He did that before and I ended up feeling cheap, like I divulged information.

not a certainty, but a possibility to anticipate, for sure. people in general can be self centered about this sort of thing, certainly people with bpd traits, in that sort of situation, even more so.

sitting here, thinking of all the times ive fallen out with an ex, a female friend, or even a male friend, im hard pressed to think of a time that they did not eventually reach out. that human need to fix that last chapter is really strong. with bpd, add in that need to know we dont hate them.

stories here all differ, and belong in their unique contexts moreover, but i think a lot of members could tell you that hearing from their ex was ultimately anti climactic.

i dont remember what spawned it, but i remember vividly, lying on my bed, crying harder than ive ever cried in my life, desperately begging god just to please, at some point, in some way, let me hear from her. just, please, some day, something, anything. i think i was particularly attached to reversing the loss of significance to her, that i felt so strongly after what happened.

well, it came. somewhere around 6-8 months i think, i got a friend request on facebook. i sat on it, and several hours later, it was gone. okay. could have been an accident. wasnt anything i was going to act on either way. i dont remember when, but likely less than a year later, i got another. same thing. i sat on it, it was gone several hours later. that was it. nothing ever happened again. i think i know my ex and bpd well enough to conclude that it was a sort of testing of the waters, with plausible deniability. she might have thought id follow up with a pm or something. but i think she believed i hated her (reasonable in her case to have thought that), and it probably took her a great deal of bravery to even go as far as she did. people with bpd traits live with those shields up. it may not match how, or who you are, but it matches how they feel about themselves.

theres no predicting if, or what he will do, or why, but irrespective of bpd, most reconnections dont turn into much more. they are usually more about feeling okay with each other, and what happened. it can sometimes be, or feel, self serving.

so, its not the outcome thatll getcha. its the attachment to it.

[tina7868]

i dont remember what spawned it, but i remember vividly, lying on my bed, crying harder than ive ever cried in my life, desperately begging god just to please, at some point, in some way, let me hear from her. just, please, some day, something, anything. i think i was particularly attached to reversing the loss of significance to her, that i felt so strongly after what happened.

well, it came. somewhere around 6-8 months i think, i got a friend request on facebook. i sat on it, and several hours later, it was gone. okay. could have been an accident. wasnt anything i was going to act on either way. i dont remember when, but likely less than a year later, i got another. same thing. i sat on it, it was gone several hours later. that was it. nothing ever happened again. i think i know my ex and bpd well enough to conclude that it was a sort of testing of the waters, with plausible deniability. she might have thought id follow up with a pm or something. but i think she believed i hated her (reasonable in her case to have thought that), and it probably took her a great deal of bravery to even go as far as she did. people with bpd traits live with those shields up. it may not match how, or who you are, but it matches how they feel about themselves.

How did you feel after receiving those friend requests at the time, if you`re open to sharing? How did you process it?

I think you had also mentioned that you don`t feel the need to talk to your ex. I mention this because I believe I am at a point where I don`t want to talk to him about our past relationship at all; I have come to my own conclusions, done my own reflecting, and am still learning, and it doesn`t involve him. I don`t think I would benefit from his point of view, which would most likely be superficial and unhelpful.

theres no predicting if, or what he will do, or why, but irrespective of bpd, most reconnections dont turn into much more. they are usually more about feeling okay with each other, and what happened. it can sometimes be, or feel, self serving.

so, its not the outcome thatll getcha. its the attachment to it.

I think that`s another reality check that is needed for me. I know that I can only control my own actions. When I look back at this past year and a bit, I am proud of how I`ve showed up, at least `front facing`, with my ex. I was always polite and respectful, and I put intention and actions behind all my actions. I know this especially because one of my close friends would talk me through how I wanted to respond . I can admit that the hope was that it would bring us closer together, that he would recognize this new version of me.

It didn`t, and I was confused, but maybe a lot of that confusion was coming from him.

And so maybe what I work on is still showing up in a way that I can stand behind, but letting go of the outcome, since clearly it isn`t in my hands. Even if I was the best, sweetest, whatever, there is part of the dynamic that comes from him. Letting go seems to be the way; it could be a part of a bigger story with my ex, or it could be what leads me to let go of him and be with someone else with a `clear` heart.

[once removed]

How did you feel after receiving those friend requests at the time, if you`re open to sharing? How did you process it?

to be honest, i didnt feel a whole lot, which is pretty remarkable given A: what a basket case i was for so long and B: the kind of person i am...the sentimental type that has a hard time with the idea of finality and never speaking to someone again, and also being prone to obsess about developments like that. id come a relatively long way; i was done with the relationship, she was well into her new one (i didnt suspect she was trying to recycle our relationship or even friendship, so i figure that made it feel less urgent), i was mostly free of feelings of loss or emotional pain, but moving toward being kind of stuck in anger/ideas of "justice". thoughts of her were about devaluing her, really.

some adrenaline, for sure, though not a lot, and some anticipation of "okay, whats next if anything, how should i handle any of this, if at all". a sort of wink at God moment "well, i remember i did all that begging, and i see what you did there". i mean, there was something comforting about it, that oh, i meant "something", but by then, i knew that, and didnt really need it. im sure that at the time, i thought "oh, thats it! PROOF OF BPD!"   since i was in a mode where i was devaluing her, i suspect there were probably some feelings of "power". but mostly, it was "really? thats it?". that was the first time; i even remember what i was wearing. the second time was so uneventful that i dont remember anything other than it happened.

i was, by then, okay with never speaking to her again. i was open to it; to this day she could contact me any time, but in my case, she crossed some serious lines in the aftermath of our breakup that, without a sincere mea culpa, made her a person that objectively shouldnt be in my life. i had nothing to say to her. and i remember thinking that if she was having some struggle about whether or not to contact me, i would leave her to it.

I don`t think I would benefit from his point of view, which would most likely be superficial and unhelpful.

exes are just very rarely reliable narrators, for so many reasons. from what you have said about your ex, i very much doubt he could tell you anything useful, and hed probably clam up or turn cold if you tried (as i recall, that is more or less what happened). i have heard of cases of a breakup where a person sincerely inquired "hey, i need to better understand", and got a sincere, even helpful answer, but thats not just rare, its still usually only part of it. its not uniquely true for people with bpd traits, but i think generally speaking, they would have a harder time with that kind of conversation.

(PS. have you heard of a concept called "the detached protector"? it has to do with schemas. i was going to link you to a video i remember watching years ago, where a guy not only explained it, but acted it out; it doesnt look like that video exists anymore, but theres some decent looking youtube results, minus the demonstration. its something ive seen before many times in my life, and from the sound of it, i suspect its something you ran up against a lot.)

so, thats something to consider. if you were to talk to him again, you dont want to have the relationship talk, so what would you talk about? would it be with the goal of being in each others lives again? if not, would there be a point (rhetorical question)?

if wanting to hear from him is because you miss him, he was an important person in your life, youd like to reconnect, youd like to end things on a better note, its just the sort of person you are, any or all of those things, thats normal, understandable, and whether it happens or not, no issue there.

if its about the validation, or meaning something to him, or that it would psychologically represent a reversal of feelings of rejection: you are more likely to be either underwhelmed, or disappointed, or vulnerable to being hurt, and that sort of motivation will dissipate as you heal, and it has.

of course, it can be some of column a, and some of column b.

When I look back at this past year and a bit, I am proud of how I`ve showed up, at least `front facing`, with my ex. I was always polite and respectful, and I put intention and actions behind all my actions.

this is going to matter to you years from now, long after any trace of pain is gone; i promise.

I know this especially because one of my close friends would talk me through how I wanted to respond . I can admit that the hope was that it would bring us closer together, that he would recognize this new version of me.

It didn`t, and I was confused, but maybe a lot of that confusion was coming from him.

you were trying to reconcile the relationship, which requires a lot of finesse. whether youre trying to move on from someone or get back with them, it always, at the start, revolves around them, before it becomes more about you. i remember saying something to that effect here, that all the stuff i was doing to try to move on still felt like it revolved around her. well, yeah. and the goal of being that most attractive person of ourselves, is, well, to attract someone.

And so maybe what I work on is still showing up in a way that I can stand behind, but letting go of the outcome, since clearly it isn`t in my hands. Even if I was the best, sweetest, whatever, there is part of the dynamic that comes from him. Letting go seems to be the way; it could be a part of a bigger story with my ex, or it could be what leads me to let go of him and be with someone else with a `clear` heart.

sometimes, i will see on this board, the idea that "your ex will never have a successful relationship, because if you look at the dsm, it says theres a history of failed relationships marked by idealization and devaluation!". im not sure that it always occurs that for all of us, every single one of us, 100% of our romantic relationships fail except the last one (excepting perhaps for remarried widows   ). relationships are about failing and learning from that failure, (ideally to prepare us for others), more than anything else i can think of. nothing else has such a complete and utter failure rate, and still so much that we can take with us from it that will benefit us. but its such a great equalizer. by that measure at least, no one more successful than anyone else. thats what relationships are for. to teach us who we are. to teach us who to be. to teach us who we are in relation to others. to teach us what we want from others. that failure isnt a failure of who we are fundamentally, and even when one knows that intellectually, it can be lost on us internally when we're picking up the pieces, because we bond, and we attach, and inevitably, so many dynamics are brought into that process. but its a failure of the fitting of two people, either because it just isnt a right fit, and/or because neither person is the fit that theyre ultimately going to be; dont get me wrong, we all make mistakes, and certainly a breakup/failure can be more one persons fault than the other, but splitting, growing apart, rejection, these things are more of a law of nature than some inherent shortcoming.

the interesting thing is that all of those things can and usually do occur even in that last relationship: the mistakes, the growing apart, the learning, the adapting, the coping, the rejection, the loss, the hurt. at some point, whether its within that final relationship, or a result of the ones before it, but all of it as a result of previous failure, we find that fit.

[SinisterComplex]

How did you feel after receiving those friend requests at the time, if you`re open to sharing? How did you process it?

I think you had also mentioned that you don`t feel the need to talk to your ex. I mention this because I believe I am at a point where I don`t want to talk to him about our past relationship at all; I have come to my own conclusions, done my own reflecting, and am still learning, and it doesn`t involve him. I don`t think I would benefit from his point of view, which would most likely be superficial and unhelpful.

I think that`s another reality check that is needed for me. I know that I can only control my own actions. When I look back at this past year and a bit, I am proud of how I`ve showed up, at least `front facing`, with my ex. I was always polite and respectful, and I put intention and actions behind all my actions. I know this especially because one of my close friends would talk me through how I wanted to respond . I can admit that the hope was that it would bring us closer together, that he would recognize this new version of me.

It didn`t, and I was confused, but maybe a lot of that confusion was coming from him.

And so maybe what I work on is still showing up in a way that I can stand behind, but letting go of the outcome, since clearly it isn`t in my hands. Even if I was the best, sweetest, whatever, there is part of the dynamic that comes from him. Letting go seems to be the way; it could be a part of a bigger story with my ex, or it could be what leads me to let go of him and be with someone else with a `clear` heart.

Tina my dear there is a song from the Rock Band I Prevail...There is Fear in Letting Go. Now perhaps the lyrics will not necessarily resonate and you may not like their brand of music. However, I do believe the title and some of the meaning of the song do suit you perfectly here.

Which brings me to ask you...why are you so afraid to just let go? It also seems you are afraid to find someone who is good to you and is open to providing what you want.

What do you think?

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

have you heard of a concept called "the detached protector"? it has to do with schemas. i was going to link you to a video i remember watching years ago, where a guy not only explained it, but acted it out; it doesnt look like that video exists anymore, but theres some decent looking youtube results, minus the demonstration. its something ive seen before many times in my life, and from the sound of it, i suspect its something you ran up against a lot

It`s certainly something that resonates with my experience!

of course, it can be some of column a, and some of column b.

I think column a is taking the lead for me, mixed in with the belief that if it`s meant to be then I`ll hear from him, and if not then it`s because there is something better ahead.

sometimes, i will see on this board, the idea that "your ex will never have a successful relationship, because if you look at the dsm, it says theres a history of failed relationships marked by idealization and devaluation!". im not sure that it always occurs that for all of us, every single one of us, 100% of our romantic relationships fail except the last one (excepting perhaps for remarried widows  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) ). relationships are about failing and learning from that failure, (ideally to prepare us for others), more than anything else i can think of. nothing else has such a complete and utter failure rate, and still so much that we can take with us from it that will benefit us. but its such a great equalizer. by that measure at least, no one more successful than anyone else. thats what relationships are for. to teach us who we are. to teach us who to be. to teach us who we are in relation to others. to teach us what we want from others. that failure isnt a failure of who we are fundamentally, and even when one knows that intellectually, it can be lost on us internally when we're picking up the pieces, because we bond, and we attach, and inevitably, so many dynamics are brought into that process. but its a failure of the fitting of two people, either because it just isnt a right fit, and/or because neither person is the fit that theyre ultimately going to be; dont get me wrong, we all make mistakes, and certainly a breakup/failure can be more one persons fault than the other, but splitting, growing apart, rejection, these things are more of a law of nature than some inherent shortcoming.

I believe without a doubt that my ex can make a relationship work. He has a lot of heart and loyalty. I wanted his person to be me, and a lot of this journey has been coming to terms with I am not that person. Not because there is anything wrong about me, but because we weren`t a good fit, because it wasn`t the right timing, because maybe he had things to learn as well.

We`ve spoken about significance on this board before. It`s clear on my end that my ex was significant in my life. Because of the way things ended, there was doubt that I meant anything close to him. My journey was then about being okay with that, and having the focus be on me. Everything is relative after all.

I`ll share a memory that has been on my mind with this latest social media look up (which you`re right, everyone does, I certainly have!). My ex was visiting after moving away. We had a fight right before his flight (I don`t remember what about exactly). It ended with him saying well I`m not even coming anymore. I was down and didn`t know if I should believe him or not. I looked up flights arriving from his city to mine, trying to figure out when he`d arrive. He obviously ended up coming. For some reason, when we were sitting together, he was looking up my search history on my phone. I was embarassed because obviously all this search history of flights was still there. He said something to the affect of `You really do care!`. I said well you looked up my search history let me see yours.

His history was filled with searches of girls who he didn`t talk to anymore. Going back to years before our relationship started. A big theme in our relationship was that I had helped him break his `curse` of ending on a no contact note when it came to female relationships (not all romantic ones, friendships too). He was sheepish about it. I remember thinking yeah, obviously it`s different between us.

This story is filled with immaturity on both ends! It happened long ago, and I think we`ve matured since then. All this to say, maybe I was a stepping stone for him on his journey, and his latest relationship will be more fruitful because as we`re saying you live and learn. Same goes for me.

Tina my dear there is a song from the Rock Band I Prevail...There is Fear in Letting Go. Now perhaps the lyrics will not necessarily resonate and you may not like their brand of music. However, I do believe the title and some of the meaning of the song do suit you perfectly here.

Which brings me to ask you...why are you so afraid to just let go? It also seems you are afraid to find someone who is good to you and is open to providing what you want.

What do you think?

I think this is a fair question. I`m closer to getting there! I don`t think I feel so much fear as much as deep sadness at the thought of just letting go! To an extent, I was afraid of confronting this sadness before. I was happy thinking that maybe someday things could work out. As my life moves forward in many directions, I have returned to the idea. I think I`ll keep changing my perspective until I `settle` into the ultimate goal of just being okay no matter what happens.

About being afraid of finding someone else who is good to me...the last thing I want is to embark in a relationship with unsettled feelings about my ex lingering. I think I am comfortable enough now for that not to be a problem. I love hard and I`m open to meeting someone, but only if there is a connection between us. I have felt this way about one person since my ex, it didn`t work out, but it gives me hope. I think my approach will be to do the things I enjoy, and if I meet someone along the way then great, and if not then I can feel fulfilled in other ways.

[SinisterComplex]

Atta girl. That response shows growth and that you have taken the support here and applied it to yourself. If no one else sees it or notices it...I do. To that end...I am proud of you for that.   It has been a journey for you. Keep on keeping on.  

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Atta girl. That response shows growth and that you have taken the support here and applied it to yourself. If no one else sees it or notices it...I do. To that end...I am proud of you for that.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post) It has been a journey for you. Keep on keeping on.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thanks SC! The continued support from you and the community gives me hope, especially on days when I can`t seem to notice any growth within myself.