moving forward - what questions should I be pondering?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Tina do me a solid here...read through what you posted to me. Can you connect any dots with your last paragraph and the preceding body of your response?

I will be honest with you that my response was kind of a trick question in the sense that I wanted you get your thoughts written out and then have the ability to go over your words to see if you yourself can decipher any patterns.

Let me know what you come up with and think.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[SinisterComplex]

Tina do me a solid here...read through what you posted to me. Can you connect any dots with your last paragraph and the preceding body of your response?

I will be honest with you that my response was kind of a trick question in the sense that I wanted you get your thoughts written out and then have the ability to go over your words to see if you yourself can decipher any patterns.

Let me know what you come up with and think.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

I am not going to write what I usually say when I reflect on the similar behaviours between my dad and my ex, and focus more on how I see them, because this is something that sticks out to me.

I seem “protective” of both of them in a similar way. I admit they have done things that hurt me, but I am quick to say that they have their strengths and that I feel like I almost deserved to be treated. I give them a lot of “outs” because I don’t believe either of them is a bad person. Then, even if I know logically that it doesn’t serve me to keep hope up, it still stays alive somewhere in my heart.

I’d like to add that as the years went by, my father did “mellow out” quite a bit so to speak. He isn’t nearly as aggressive in his way of speaking, has a bit more self-awareness, and above all, I’ve learned to accept him as he is, limitations and all. So even when he does behave in a way that would have disappointed me  in the past, I’ve learned to take it with a grain of salt, or if he is talking badly about someone who “wronged and who he will never talk to again” him, that he will change his mind in an hour. Oh wow even more similarities!

So I think I do conflate these two people, and just as I never wanted to give up on my dad, I place all that intensity on someone who had a very different perspective.

 It makes sense, but knowing me, I really don’t think I can give up, despite how short sighted it is.

[tina7868]

Hello! Posting an update. Time has flown by. I’ve taken many steps forward, and can honestly say I am in a much better place. I took a long anticipated trip that helped me detach from my day to day life, and it was healing. My number is disconnected for now, and I am considering changing it permanently - for real! - to keep up this separation in my mind. Space has helped immensely, as time passes memories get more fuzzy. I can’t remember his face very well. I am committed to leaving this situation in the past. I see now that I was the one getting continuously hurt, and hoping something would change. It’s time to do something different, and take a big, real step to leave it all behind me, where all of this belongs!

I heard some news that leads me to believe my ex may not be doing well. I tell myself that he has a good support network (his family, his girlfriend) and so I hope he is safe, but I find myself wishing I could check up on him. I know that is not my place anymore, and he’s made it clear he doesn’t want that from me, which makes me sad all over again.

Anyways, glad again that these boards exist! I realize I tend to post mostly in down moments, but I do feel much better overall.

[Heartbroken94]

Tina,

I've read this thread with much interest, as parts of it resonate with my own experience. I'm really happy to hear of where you're at now, and am grateful for you (and others here) sharing your experiences and journeys. It's very much valued!

[tina7868]

Tina,

I've read this thread with much interest, as parts of it resonate with my own experience. I'm really happy to hear of where you're at now, and am grateful for you (and others here) sharing your experiences and journeys. It's very much valued!

Hey Heartbroken94,

I appreciate you taking the time to write this message . Feel free to share your thoughts and feelings any time!

[SinisterComplex]

Hello! Posting an update. Time has flown by. I’ve taken many steps forward, and can honestly say I am in a much better place. I took a long anticipated trip that helped me detach from my day to day life, and it was healing. My number is disconnected for now, and I am considering changing it permanently - for real! - to keep up this separation in my mind. Space has helped immensely, as time passes memories get more fuzzy. I can’t remember his face very well. I am committed to leaving this situation in the past. I see now that I was the one getting continuously hurt, and hoping something would change. It’s time to do something different, and take a big, real step to leave it all behind me, where all of this belongs!

I heard some news that leads me to believe my ex may not be doing well. I tell myself that he has a good support network (his family, his girlfriend) and so I hope he is safe, but I find myself wishing I could check up on him. I know that is not my place anymore, and he’s made it clear he doesn’t want that from me, which makes me sad all over again.

Anyways, glad again that these boards exist! I realize I tend to post mostly in down moments, but I do feel much better overall.

While we are here to help you heal, I challenge you to post here when you are up and doing well in addition to when you are down. Change the status quo and create balance so this is a safe space for you to be you and not just a place where you deal with the negatives. In essence, consider this my way of helping guide toward doing things you want to do because you want to do them not because you feel you need to.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

While we are here to help you heal, I challenge you to post here when you are up and doing well in addition to when you are down. Change the status quo and create balance so this is a safe space for you to be you and not just a place where you deal with the negatives. In essence, consider this my way of helping guide toward doing things you want to do because you want to do them not because you feel you need to.

I guess I don't post much when I am doing well because I feel like I haven't ´made it´ completely yet. In the sense that I still have moments where I focus on whether I will hear from him again or not, and then frustrated because I am putting focus on the wrong thing, then I accept that I think that way sometimes but it doesn't mean I have ´failed´ completely. I noticed that it is hard for me in general to recover from making mistakes (I am getting better at seperating making mistakes from being a bad person).

I have been taking a more global approach to my growth and putting things into perspective. I think moving away has given me a chance to see myself for who I am in a new environment, the things I carry over. I find that I still carry over deep caring for my friends and family now far away, but at the same time I don't feel the need to search for new connections so much because I am happy to spend time by myself. I love nature and reading and cooking. I feel like I have so much to learn still about life. Like letting go of the small things, but also the ´big´ things, because what is the point of worrying about things you can't change?

I feel like I am a lot more receptive to things that I was told before, and didn't really sink in until now. Like the person I am thinking of when I imagine him never really existed, at least not for me. Like the memories are enough, and a commitment to myself to move forward is the best thing I could do for myself.

I feel like I'm rambling  . A good day for me is a mixture of keeping busy, but also times where I ´face´ the truth, difficult aspects and all, and feel at peace.

[tina7868]

More ponderings! I realized even more deeply today how the idea or the person I was pining over wasn't the person who really existed.

I was talking to a close friend about how I had always thought that my ex resembled a fun loving, confident and committed person we both know, but I was starting to think maybe I wasn't seeing things objectively. To which she did not hold back and said that I was delusional for thinking that they were similar . Not only was I conflating personalities, but I was also attaching my hopes and dreams and the lifestyle that I wanted. All on this person who I can't even say I know anymore. To the point where part of me feels bad for him; that wasn't loving on my end, because truly loving someone means being known and embraced fully for who you really are. That wasn't fair to him.

When we did talk a few times over the year, it was still heavily focused on harsh judgements of other people that didn't really make sense to me, and the same complaints about people who he oscillates between loving and hating, and interrogation-like interest into my life. Yet I spun everything to make it seem like maybe there was more than meets the eye.

Would I have felt this way about him if I really knew him? Or rather, if I accepted him as he was based on his actions, when he showed who he really was? The answer is, I probably would have. I just feel that now, being older and having a better understanding of these things, I can take things for what they are instead of holding on to what I dreamed of in my head.

[SinisterComplex]

I guess I don't post much when I am doing well because I feel like I haven't ´made it´ completely yet. In the sense that I still have moments where I focus on whether I will hear from him again or not, and then frustrated because I am putting focus on the wrong thing, then I accept that I think that way sometimes but it doesn't mean I have ´failed´ completely. I noticed that it is hard for me in general to recover from making mistakes (I am getting better at seperating making mistakes from being a bad person).

I have been taking a more global approach to my growth and putting things into perspective. I think moving away has given me a chance to see myself for who I am in a new environment, the things I carry over. I find that I still carry over deep caring for my friends and family now far away, but at the same time I don't feel the need to search for new connections so much because I am happy to spend time by myself. I love nature and reading and cooking. I feel like I have so much to learn still about life. Like letting go of the small things, but also the ´big´ things, because what is the point of worrying about things you can't change?

I feel like I am a lot more receptive to things that I was told before, and didn't really sink in until now. Like the person I am thinking of when I imagine him never really existed, at least not for me. Like the memories are enough, and a commitment to myself to move forward is the best thing I could do for myself.

I feel like I'm rambling  . A good day for me is a mixture of keeping busy, but also times where I ´face´ the truth, difficult aspects and all, and feel at peace.

My dear making mistakes is a part of life. We all screw up. I like to think I am a pretty good person, but oh good lord there are plenty of faults and I make mistakes...granted not many because I typically learn from them or at least strive to and the make the effort to, but I still screw up with the best of them sometimes. Making a mistake just means you are human and you are normal. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are not rambling. We are listening and paying attention. You are just sharing and allow yourself the freedom to do so. Essentially what I am guiding you towards is to be more vulnerable and being comfortable and confident with it. That means sharing regardless of your mood. You do not have to put on a facade here. Just be you. If you can get comfortable doing that here there is a high probability it will transfer to real world in your personal everyday life as well.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC- 

[tina7868]

My dear making mistakes is a part of life. We all screw up. I like to think I am a pretty good person, but oh good lord there are plenty of faults and I make mistakes...granted not many because I typically learn from them or at least strive to and the make the effort to, but I still screw up with the best of them sometimes. Making a mistake just means you are human and you are normal. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are not rambling. We are listening and paying attention. You are just sharing and allow yourself the freedom to do so. Essentially what I am guiding you towards is to be more vulnerable and being comfortable and confident with it. That means sharing regardless of your mood. You do not have to put on a facade here. Just be you. If you can get comfortable doing that here there is a high probability it will transfer to real world in your personal everyday life as well.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC- 

Thank you for the reassurance. I think accepting and loving myself for who I am, all the sides of me, will allow me to recognize and accept people for who they are as well. Which also means that they are human, have their own things they are going through, and don't are free to make their own choices. Which in turn, makes me feel like I can detach even more.

I have been feeling that I can be happier for him than before. In the sense that, if he found someone who truly sees him and cares for him for who he is, he deserves that. We all deserve that (myself included). I made the mistake of projecting my hopes and dreams onto him, seeing him as representing a lifestyle that I didn't believe I could attain myself because of a more conservative upbringing. Yet here I am, making own choices!

I don't know if it's not fully detached of me to say that I would still be open to talking to him again, if he ever reappears, even years down the line. I feel like I could connect with him and see him in a new way; for who he is, not for who I wanted him to be. The person he is doesn't owe me anything, is his own person, and I feel like I could leave it at that. Is it sentimental, or showing something I need to work on? I am not feeling as though I need this to be happy though. I am looking towards more spiritual practices of late to feel ´full´, and it's been really fruitful. I can care for someone, and in a way to truly care for them is to assess what they need, and accept that maybe that is giving them space

[tina7868]

I am feeling philosophical again!

I had a nice day, I got myself to venture out for a solo hike, and a group of hikers asked me if I wanted to join them. It was really nice to be out in nature, and connect with friendly people. I also had a touching conversation with my dad...it was very healing for me. My new job has been stimulating, and I think it will be a welcome challenge to work in this environment.

I read some of my old posts from over a year ago now. How time flies! My heart goes out to my past self. I think I learned a lot of lessons. I can see now that, while my ex had lost feelings for me, I was so entrenched in how I wanted things to be that I ignored all of what his actions were indicating and clung to how things used to be. I was also ignoring what he was actually saying, because, okay today you're saying you don't want to talk to me, but then you said the same thing last month and then came back saying that I checked all the boxes for you and you loved me. Oh gosh, I don't blame myself; it was confusing, and there was zero closure. I can also see why friends and family felt so frustrated (but still put up with me thankfully   ). I would have told myself ´Girl you're wasting your precious time on this planet! Why do you value yourself so little? ´. I don't know if anyone can relate, but I also feel like the previous cycles did something to my brain where I was addicted to waiting for that ´high´ when I heard from him again, slot machine style. But like, no, he doesn't care about me in that way and hasn't for who knows how long. And that's okay!

I'm getting a more global view of the situation, as time passes, and recognizing that there were so many elements to sift through, no wonder it felt like I was all over the place. I am still having insights. To the point where I feel like okay I don't want any more thank you  

I realized in the past three years, there has not been a period longer than 3 months between times we have been in contact. That both scares me, and brings me hope. The part that is scared is saying ´what if it's really over´ and the part that has hope thinks, if I make it that far this time, if he doesn't contact me, that could be the greatest thing, I can finally be free.

It is a bit weird to be quoting myself   I just think this was 2 months ago now, and I am indeed feeling more free. What will 4 months look like? 6 months? It doesn't scare me anymore, I feel more curious about what life has in store for me.

[tina7868]

Today's reflection is : it's okay to feel tired and sad.

I had a long week with work. I felt compelled to make myself do it all; go for long walks, cook healthy meals, do yoga, journal, stay on top of extra studying I wanted to do to learn about new subjects...and today I just didn't feel like keeping it up. My mind, automatically, went down a path of rumination. What if I never find a partner? What if I never hear from my ex again? I thought I really missed him, I felt a pain in my heart...but hold up, these things didn't bother me yesterday. I didn't feel that way. Not to say it isn't valid to feel hurt because you miss someone, but in my case I have moved passed that. Did I move backwards?

No, I was just tired from a long week, and feeling down. And it's normal. It's okay. I recognize all the good in my life, I'm grateful for it, but it's also okay to take time. It's okay to feel bored. It doesn't have to do with my ex, not at all. My brain is just used to jumping to that, I really recognize that now. I can be patient and take it easy on myself.

[tina7868]

Some wonky thinking patterns I have noticed:

- when I do something remotely ´wrong´, even if not very significant, like mess up a recipe, or feel upset, or feel like I don't look nice, I feel a tightening and my thinking will snowball into how I am not good enough, that this is why he didn't want to be with me
- I am getting better at this, but making decisions with the lens of what he would think of my choice

In addition to the thinking pattern I wrote about in my last post, I think these thoughts are remnants that come from stronger impulses that I had in the past. I think they come from me, from force of habit, and it's in my power to notice them, and gently tell myself that I don't want to think that way anymore. It is okay to make mistakes, I am still worthy of love. I am working on paying attention to what I want, and doing in because I want to find inner peace and purpose.

My ex was a ghost in my head that I gave so much power to, and was feeding into even when he wasn't around. No one should hold that much power over me.

[jaded7]

Some wonky thinking patterns I have noticed:

- when I do something remotely ´wrong´, even if not very significant, like mess up a recipe, or feel upset, or feel like I don't look nice, I feel a tightening and my thinking will snowball into how I am not good enough, that this is why he didn't want to be with me
- I am getting better at this, but making decisions with the lens of what he would think of my choice

In addition to the thinking pattern I wrote about in my last post, I think these thoughts are remnants that come from stronger impulses that I had in the past. I think they come from me, from force of habit, and it's in my power to notice them, and gently tell myself that I don't want to think that way anymore. It is okay to make mistakes, I am still worthy of love. I am working on paying attention to what I want, and doing in because I want to find inner peace and purpose.

My ex was a ghost in my head that I gave so much power to, and was feeding into even when he wasn't around. No one should hold that much power over me.

Nice thoughts Tina. I've been following along on your journey for a while, and just wanted to thank you for your posts and insights and sharing this all with us. It helps us all, and I can very much identify with you and your path.

I very much get this idea of his voice in your head, commenting on the choices you make and criticizing you. I have the very same thing...her voice is in my head when I eat food that she might not approve of, or if I write some business stuff for LinkedIn...she's there, commenting on it. Telling me it's not good enough, it's bad. Which, of course, she did very often.

A ghost in the head, indeed. And by the way, in my extensive reading and video watching on cluster b disorders, this is a very common thing for partners to experience. Sam Vankin talks about this, his former protege Richard Brannon, Dr. Ramani...they all talk about this voice in your head of your ex, judging and criticizing. It made me feel somewhat a little better to know this isn't unusual.

[tina7868]

Nice thoughts Tina. I've been following along on your journey for a while, and just wanted to thank you for your posts and insights and sharing this all with us. It helps us all, and I can very much identify with you and your path.

I very much get this idea of his voice in your head, commenting on the choices you make and criticizing you. I have the very same thing...her voice is in my head when I eat food that she might not approve of, or if I write some business stuff for LinkedIn...she's there, commenting on it. Telling me it's not good enough, it's bad. Which, of course, she did very often.

A ghost in the head, indeed. And by the way, in my extensive reading and video watching on cluster b disorders, this is a very common thing for partners to experience. Sam Vankin talks about this, his former protege Richard Brannon, Dr. Ramani...they all talk about this voice in your head of your ex, judging and criticizing. It made me feel somewhat a little better to know this isn't unusual.

Hi jaded7, thank you for your reply! I'm sorry you experience a similar critical voice. I did not know about how this can be a common experience for people, that is validating and makes me hopeful that it will go away with time.

[jaded7]

Hi jaded7, thank you for your reply! I'm sorry you experience a similar critical voice. I did not know about how this can be a common experience for people, that is validating and makes me hopeful that it will go away with time.

very, very common Tina. Those YouTube channels will have videos on it. I hope you can look them up.

My own therapist called that voice an 'introject', which I guess is the opposite of a projection, which is something that goes outward. The introject is inwards, into our minds.

Our partners criticized, belittled, called names, yelled, shamed, and put us down. We take that to heart. The thinking, for me at least, was...well, she loves me and a person who loves me wouldn't lie to me about myself, and certainly wouldn't intentionally make me feel bad. Therefore, what she's saying about me MUST be true and I simply didn't see it. And she's telling me these things because she wants me to be better, and I WANT to be better for her. I want to make her feel loved and accepted.

Of course, her verbal putdowns and belittling make me feel unloved and not accepted.

So we believe the things they are saying about us, and those criticisms become internalized. Which is to say, their voice becomes an introjection.

Very often, these voices of our partners mimic or are similar to a voice we heard as children. So they can amplify a voice that was already there.

[SinisterComplex]

Tina, just letting you know I'm still following along and paying attention. ;-) It would appear you did take that nudge from me and ran with it. Happy to see that.  You are making progress every day...trust me. Even if it doesn't feel like it you are.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

very, very common Tina. Those YouTube channels will have videos on it. I hope you can look them up.

My own therapist called that voice an 'introject', which I guess is the opposite of a projection, which is something that goes outward. The introject is inwards, into our minds.

Our partners criticized, belittled, called names, yelled, shamed, and put us down. We take that to heart. The thinking, for me at least, was...well, she loves me and a person who loves me wouldn't lie to me about myself, and certainly wouldn't intentionally make me feel bad. Therefore, what she's saying about me MUST be true and I simply didn't see it. And she's telling me these things because she wants me to be better, and I WANT to be better for her. I want to make her feel loved and accepted.

Of course, her verbal putdowns and belittling make me feel unloved and not accepted.

So we believe the things they are saying about us, and those criticisms become internalized. Which is to say, their voice becomes an introjection.

Very often, these voices of our partners mimic or are similar to a voice we heard as children. So they can amplify a voice that was already there.

Thank you for sharing, I am glad to become more aware of this. I am trying to find a balance between learning about the psychology behind the dynamics in the relationship, and putting it all behind me as a thing of the past that I experienced and not look back. Although I guess since my thought patterns are still affected by what happened, it's worthwhile to look into.

Tina, just letting you know I'm still following along and paying attention. ;-) It would appear you did take that nudge from me and ran with it. Happy to see that.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) You are making progress every day...trust me. Even if it doesn't feel like it you are.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thanks SC . You're right in saying that it doesn't feel like I'm making progress sometimes!

Today I finally get some time off after several busy days in a row. I'm taking the time to relax, since I learned that I really need that! I've made a few friends in this new city. When it comes to romantic interests, I'm not even in that headspace. My approach is to let things unfold naturally, and be open. For some reason it's been hard for me to even imagine myself with someone new. I can see sharing a connection with someone, getting to know them, holding their hand...then I feel something is wrong, I start having mental imagery of my ex doing this with his girlfriend.

I don't even know much about their relationship obviously, just the tidbits he had mentioned the handful of times we've spoken over the last year. What is making me sad about it exactly? I'm not sure. Misplaced loyalty? A trauma bond connection that is taking time to break? I know it's perfectly normal and okay to have many relationships, and that's a way to learn and grow. I would tell that to a friend, and also tell them that they deserve someone who loves and respects them. I believe there is abundance in this world. Maybe I'm just not ready yet.

These thoughts make me very sad. I know this is so so corny, but I really do feel like I put my whole heart into that relationship. I know I wrote about how I didn't see him for who he really was, but in a way I was committed to him as a person, no matter what. I see it like, if he fell ill or became disable physically, without a moment's hesitation I would have stayed committed. I would have accepted him as he is, and still gone on loving him.

I don't know how much sense that makes. The other part of my mind knows this is not the best way to love someone without limitations or conditions, because then it puts you obviously in a position where you can end up in a bad situation and not leave. Also, I don't know if I would have been able to grow and learn as much if we had not broken up, and I recognize and love myself enough as I am today that I do believe it was worth it in the long run. Finally, with this vision of relationships, when the other person does leave well you're in the position I am in; not necessarily worse off, yet not able to imagine being someone else, while they have moved on and (in my case) don't want anything to do with you.

[once removed]

These thoughts make me very sad. I know this is so so corny, but I really do feel like I put my whole heart into that relationship.

you are still grieving and mourning that loss.

that is, in part, why it may feel like there isnt room in your heart yet for a significant other (even if there is room or growing room for other connections).

it doesn't feel like I'm making progress sometimes!

i dont want to say "it takes time" (because time alone does nothing but dull pain, and paradoxically can open you up to processing pain you couldnt before), but it will likely take a long time to really see the fruits of your labors. it took me a few years, and a couple more bad relationships. what im talking about isnt just starting to make different decisions, or feeling better. im talking about growth, maturity, resilience. i can see that fruit growing now.

I know I wrote about how I didn't see him for who he really was, but in a way I was committed to him as a person, no matter what. I see it like, if he fell ill or became disable physically, without a moment's hesitation I would have stayed committed. I would have accepted him as he is, and still gone on loving him.

i can tell that you really loved him.

our own love can often look immature, fantastical, or lacking, in hindsight. thats because ideally, it is always growing, always evolving. i dont think that diminishes it. we love with the capacity we have at the time.

stop me if i am either wildly off base, or captain obvious late to the party, but it strikes me that in all of this, that tina wanted to be loved the same way she loved. i suspect you were, and to some extent pride yourself in being, a loving and adoring partner, one that builds her partner up, one that will look right past your flaws and love you in spite of them. and you gave it your all. you didnt need him to be your "equal" in that regard, either; just to accept it and return it.

and if im right? im sorry that it wasnt in him to do that.

i hope that you dont lose it, though. it isnt the lesson, or a lesson.

but to some extent, tina invested a great deal of herself in that outcome. you arent just grieving the loss of him, but the loss of that investment/outcome, and i get the sense something is telling you that it wasnt enough, that you arent enough.

giving her that love is the antidote.

and if im wildly off base, hopefully some of it still applies. we are rooting for you, and youre going to be just fine. five years from now, you will not recognize any of this, but youll still be learning from it.

[tina7868]

Thank you for your reply, once removed.

i dont want to say "it takes time" (because time alone does nothing but dull pain, and paradoxically can open you up to processing pain you couldnt before), but it will likely take a long time to really see the fruits of your labors. it took me a few years, and a couple more bad relationships. what im talking about isnt just starting to make different decisions, or feeling better. im talking about growth, maturity, resilience. i can see that fruit growing now.

I definitely feel a ´loosening´ in my mind to approach some things that I couldn't before, like how I didn't see what was really happening in front of me, how he's with someone else now, and how the relationship wasn't a healthy one and we both deserved better. I don't feel anymore like I need reassurance that I will hear from him again (which was the case when I started this thread!). It's more like I am trying to learn to live with myself and accept who I am to the best of my abilities.



Thanks for validating that, I really appreciate it. Despite very good intentions of those around me who provide their love and support, I definitely get a sense that I should be passed all of this.

stop me if i am either wildly off base, or captain obvious late to the party, but it strikes me that in all of this, that tina wanted to be loved the same way she loved. i suspect you were, and to some extent pride yourself in being, a loving and adoring partner, one that builds her partner up, one that will look right past your flaws and love you in spite of them. and you gave it your all. you didnt need him to be your "equal" in that regard, either; just to accept it and return it.

and if im right? im sorry that it wasnt in him to do that.

You are right.

I told a friend not too long ago a summarized version of all that happened. It was a roadtrip and there is something about that setting that makes it fun to open up . It was...interesting, I guess, to summarize my experience, and notice the change in how I saw things, especially since this friend had never met my ex. I bring this up because he said something similar to what you wrote, that he can just tell that I would give a lot of myself to my partner, and he thought that whoever was on the receiving end of this should hold on to that because they are very lucky. I don't know about that, but some tther things he said were also insightful.

He seemed not to like some of the things my ex has done (I tried to be very neutral), particularly the bits where my ex seemed to string along (I guess talking, not talking, talking, not talking). He also noticed that I am very protective in the way I speak about my ex, which I admit I am.

but to some extent, tina invested a great deal of herself in that outcome. you arent just grieving the loss of him, but the loss of that investment/outcome, and i get the sense something is telling you that it wasnt enough, that you arent enough.

I think back to the past three years, when we weren't together. (This makes me think of how my ex said something like ´it's been three years, get over it´. That was hard to hear). It's like he would say the exact things that would get me, like ´your name fits so well with my last name´, ´that's very wifey material of you´, ´even from so far away you're the only person I think about´, and generally making plans of me moving out to be with him. Maybe I was reading into it too much. I know now, people say things like that and don't mean them, because of manipulation, or even maybe they meant it when they said it but then they change their mind. That's okay! It happens! I guess I do get tripped up because if I said it I would have meant it. I would not have gone back on it.

I know the world doesn't work that way, but I work that way. And I realize also now, it's not my ex's burden to bear that I am someone like this. My friend said someone would be lucky to be loved like this, but maybe my ex doesn't want that, not with me, and that's okay too. Maybe it was too much for him, maybe with someone else there is a type of love that suits him better. I guess accepting that makes me sad. Maybe it came from a place of arrogance or ego that I used to think that there was something special between us, that he would come back because of it. He is not some character in my story, he has his own story.

giving her that love is the antidote.

I am trying, and this forum has helped me so much. I thought healing would have me not posting here at all anymore, but even after all this time I feel like people understand me here.

[SinisterComplex]

So Tina, I'm glad I cracked you out of your shell in the sense you are posting here regardless of good or bad. You are among friends here and yes we understand you. Continue on and always know we are listening, paying attention, and we do indeed understand and "Get You".

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Thanks SC!

i can tell that you really loved him.

our own love can often look immature, fantastical, or lacking, in hindsight. thats because ideally, it is always growing, always evolving. i dont think that diminishes it. we love with the capacity we have at the time.

stop me if i am either wildly off base, or captain obvious late to the party, but it strikes me that in all of this, that tina wanted to be loved the same way she loved. i suspect you were, and to some extent pride yourself in being, a loving and adoring partner, one that builds her partner up, one that will look right past your flaws and love you in spite of them. and you gave it your all. you didnt need him to be your "equal" in that regard, either; just to accept it and return it.

and if im right? im sorry that it wasnt in him to do that.

i hope that you dont lose it, though. it isnt the lesson, or a lesson.

Reading this over really makes me feel seen. Also kind of sad, but not in a bad way. In a deep level of acceptance kind of way.

The way I see things keeps evolving, and I keep evolving. Right now, what I would say to him is :

I am sorry that I was not aware.
I believe the reason we met was to learn and grow. I am sorry we met before I learned things that could have made me a better partner.
I am happy you found someone that is there for you.
I release you.

Obviously the phrasing is weird . Also, I don't need to say this to him to feel it and know it's true.

[tina7868]

Hello! In a couple of days, it will have been 3 months since my last contact with my ex. If you consider when he `unplugged` (although I wasn't aware enough to realise it  ), it's been about 6 months.

That 6 month mark is more scary to consider! I feel like in this time I have grown more than before. It's because I've been able to consider things that were too difficult to even phantom. What the relationship actually was like, my own past, my mistakes, and finally, the most difficult one of all, the idea that my feelings weren't reciprocated like I thought they were.

I have felt so validated and accepted here, being met where I am at, with some gentle, yet understanding, nudging along the way. I am so grateful for this community. At this point, it feels a lot more like I am the focus of my journey.

I either hear from him or I don't. I don't think I am truly detached because I would still welcome hearing from him. Even knowing the relationship was a messy one, and that he is not the person I thought he was, and that he is with someone else...I must sound crazy. All this growth, and I still feel that. It's not that I don't love myself enough to think I deserve to be happy. I actually feel that way more than ever.

[once removed]

I thought healing would have me not posting here at all anymore

if this is the case, i am in pretty deep denial  

you can go so far in your journey beyond bpd here.

I don't feel anymore like I need reassurance that I will hear from him again

reading this gave me a flashback. i did this too! in fact, after my endless ruminating sessions with people irl, i always had to end it on begging/making them telling me id hear from her again. i needed conviction behind it, too.

id completely forgotten. the odds are, you will too. that might have seemed scary at one time, or it might even now, but at a certain point in the Detaching process, there isnt really any going back. you may find yourself looking back with hesitance, but at the same time, youre picking up speed, unstoppable momentum.

I definitely get a sense that I should be passed all of this.

let yourself grieve.

there is such a thing as unhealthy grieving. there is such a thing as protracted, complex grief that at a point, enters into the realm of disorder. there is also your typical "getting stuck", which usually happens at  some point to all of us.

none of that is ideal. but nothing made my grieving easier like when i let go (to a reasonable extent. healthy benchmarks are not a bad thing) of those "shoulds". it is kind of a societal holdover to say things like "if someone hurts you, kick them to the curb". or "no one youre crying over is worth your tears". you may not believe either of those things, but those sorts of pressures we put on ourselves to heal.

we all kinda got our asses kicked. no sense in doing that to ourselves in our grief. we should be passed all that  

He also noticed that I am very protective in the way I speak about my ex, which I admit I am.

i think thats noble. the beatles were the same way after their breakup. oh, george harrison and john lennon could talk your ear off about what a bastard paul mccartney supposedly was. but theyd deck you if you did it.

(This makes me think of how my ex said something like ´it's been three years, get over it´. That was hard to hear).

i can imagine it would be  

i get the sense that with the effort you put into loving him, there is, or was, a profound sense of rejection, or, rejection might not even be quite as accurate as just a feeling of not being enough, or just...not accepted/appreciated/reciprocated. but somewhere in that neighborhood. it makes sense, your own unique story aside, with people with bpd traits generally being either so radically accepting, or radically rejecting, its easy to feel either or both so powerfully. i mean, like you, it wasnt exactly the idealization that drew me in, which she did plenty of; i never invested a lot in the idea that i was the greatest, or the sexiest, or whatever synonym for perfect i was hearing on a given day (not that it wasnt pretty cool   )

It's like he would say the exact things that would get me, like ´your name fits so well with my last name´, ´that's very wifey material of you´, ´even from so far away you're the only person I think about´, and generally making plans of me moving out to be with him.

it was the fact that she said all the right things, like a language between us she couldnt have possibly picked up anywhere. it felt right. it felt like love. it couldnt be faked.

Maybe I was reading into it too much. I know now, people say things like that and don't mean them, because of manipulation, or even maybe they meant it when they said it but then they change their mind. That's okay! It happens! I guess I do get tripped up because if I said it I would have meant it. I would not have gone back on it.

i had an on and off girlfriend when i was in high school. the first time that we got together, she started talking about our future kids. boy did i take that seriously, id never experienced anything like it. when we broke up (less than a month later), in my grief, i wrote a letter to "our child". i mean, as seriously as any 15 or 16 something can feasibly do, i grieved the heck out of the loss of that future. thinking about and typing this now just has me cracking up.

dont get me wrong. teenagers profess their undying love to each other all the time, and it is more than a bit different in adulthood. whether its the loss of the future, the loss of what we invested in, the loss of what (ourselves) we invested, it isnt just a real loss, but a major one. but you are right: it happens.

I know the world doesn't work that way, but I work that way.

and i hope that that never changes. it is a fundamental and good part of who you are. as i said, it would be tragic i think, to walk away with the lesson that there is anything even strategically disadvantageous, let alone wrong, with working that way.

but understand, that you have, you are, and you will (change). possibly no more any time than now, but for the rest of your life. this, and he, may always be a significant part of your journey. for me personally, it is both ancient history, and one of the most significant times of my life. that may diminish over the course of it, or it may not; i can only say it continues to teach me lessons.

but how you feel about him now is different than it was then, or even when you started this thread. that would even be true if the outcome had been different. it will be true for all of your future partners.

I don't think I am truly detached because I would still welcome hearing from him.

full disclosure: i have not spoken to my ex in over 12 years now, since we broke up. she could contact me any time. she isnt blocked anywhere. id be polite to her. it would not be any emotional burden to me to speak to her. i wouldnt say id welcome it, because its ancient history, i have no interest, and in one of her final acts, she crossed a line in terms of who im willing to have in my life. i dont have any lasting grudge, or any difficulty forgiving her, just more of a "whats the point". if i had the interest, id reach out.

your willingness to hear from him is not a marker of a lack of detachment. if you are measuring detachment, a better marker would be how hearing from him would affect you. the ability to be around him (hypothetically) and thrive, would speak better to your detachment than a need to hide from him, for example (and it wouldnt be inherently wrong if you did, but it would speak to your detachment). emotionally depending on hearing from him is different, of course. it would have been a turning point when i no longer needed people to tell me that it would happen. i dont really consider it a turning point that i decided "id rather not", just part of my own journey.

Maybe I was reading into it too much. I know now, people say things like that and don't mean them, because of manipulation, or even maybe they meant it when they said it but then they change their mind. That's okay! It happens! I guess I do get tripped up because if I said it I would have meant it. I would not have gone back on it.

I know the world doesn't work that way, but I work that way. And I realize also now, it's not my ex's burden to bear that I am someone like this. My friend said someone would be lucky to be loved like this, but maybe my ex doesn't want that, not with me, and that's okay too. Maybe it was too much for him, maybe with someone else there is a type of love that suits him better. I guess accepting that makes me sad. Maybe it came from a place of arrogance or ego that I used to think that there was something special between us, that he would come back because of it. He is not some character in my story, he has his own story.
...
I am sorry that I was not aware.
I believe the reason we met was to learn and grow. I am sorry we met before I learned things that could have made me a better partner.
I am happy you found someone that is there for you.
I release you.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=332589.0

this is both beautiful, and palpably painful to read. it is all stage 3-5 stuff. imagine the tina of one year ago, or even three months ago having written it.

[tina7868]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, once removed. What you wrote helped me not only feel validated, but also put things into perspective as part of a larger process of growth.

imagine the tina of one year ago, or even three months ago having written it.

Thank you for writing this especially, as I hadn`t paused to realize how much my perspective has changed.

I had an interesting exchange with a close friend, who has been by my side through everything. I was sharing with her some of my new insights. Her reading of the situation went back to a part of the story that I believe I shared a while ago (and forgot about lately  ), when last year I was planning to visit him (with the understanding of eventually moving out and being with him), and my plans fell through. His own hopes had been raised (he had said something along the lines of `I am so excited (about seeing you), that I am scared`), only to crash and feel, possibly, rejected. He blocked me, ignored me, maybe in a way to protect himself. With this perspective, what ensued was not as much a rejection of me as it was a reaction to a huge letdown of his own expectations.

dont get me wrong. teenagers profess their undying love to each other all the time, and it is more than a bit different in adulthood.

I think there was a very `teenage love` essence on both our ends. For me, I liked him a bit too much, and so when he behaved in ways where I felt were a rejection, it tore me apart. For him (maybe), he took my actions as direct qualifiers for how I felt, without looking at their context. It was unhealthy from both ends, is what I see now, we were both stumbling. We were both a little broken and saw something in one another. And it's okay to have these relationships to grow from and become healthier partners.

I guess part of why I`m stuck is I went ahead, after having to cancel that trip, and made big life changes. Things that have benefited me (mostly in terms of independence), that I would have wanted anyways, but if I`m being honest I had done them to be with him. Not the worst case to be in by far, but there is this element of I `made` it, finally, and I guess I had always imagined he would be with me. But he`s not.

To me, this road of thinking demonstrates that there is no one way to read a situation. It was a big part of why I had reached out 3 months ago to him - I wanted to understand what happened. I was prepared to hear that he lost feelings for me, or I was prepared to hear that a lot stemmed from that cancelled trip. The fact that he wasn`t open to talk about it is a fair choice. And of course all of this making me feel sad is also valid.

[cranmango]

Hi tina—just wanted to chime in and say still here, still reading, and still rooting for you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and reflections.

Like others have pointed out, I see significant growth from where you were months ago. Which is excellent! Sometimes I feel like I’m stuck and still ruminating over the same old things—then I pause and think how rough things were 6 months ago, a year ago, etc. My ex is still on my mind, but not as often. I still hurt from it all, but it’s not so raw.

Like you, I have made some major life decisions that on paper have all been good. But it does feel bittersweet because these were supposed to be moments shared with my ex. But I’m glad to be able to share those moments with others in my life—especially the friendships that have depended these past few months.

One foot forward…

[Pook075]

Some wonky thinking patterns I have noticed:

- when I do something remotely ´wrong´, even if not very significant, like mess up a recipe, or feel upset, or feel like I don't look nice, I feel a tightening and my thinking will snowball into how I am not good enough, that this is why he didn't want to be with me
- I am getting better at this, but making decisions with the lens of what he would think of my choice

In addition to the thinking pattern I wrote about in my last post, I think these thoughts are remnants that come from stronger impulses that I had in the past. I think they come from me, from force of habit, and it's in my power to notice them, and gently tell myself that I don't want to think that way anymore. It is okay to make mistakes, I am still worthy of love. I am working on paying attention to what I want, and doing in because I want to find inner peace and purpose.

My ex was a ghost in my head that I gave so much power to, and was feeding into even when he wasn't around. No one should hold that much power over me.

I felt that several months back and I'd let the most ridiculous things hijack my day.

- The dog chewed up my socks- clearly I am failing my dog!  Why don't I have more chew toys!
- I forgot to pull meat out of the freezer for dinner.  Why am I so bad at life?
- My BPD kid is having a bad day, why can't I solve her problems or be there for her more often?

I'd go on and on, finding things I could have done better and using those things as an excuse not to just be happy in life.  Even when I was stable and content, there was always someone else with drama that I'd turn my attention to.  But in the end, I had to really take a step back and say that my happiness ALWAYS comes first.  Not in a selfish way like we'll always do what I want, but in a healthy way with boundaries that clearly separate my life struggles from everyone else's. 

I now focus on my stuff first...and if you're the one causing drama, then I just step back for a bit since it's not healthy for me.

The reason this matters is because the people I do love and want to help in life, they deserve the best version of me and they can only get that if I have a healthy ego through prioritizing my own needs.  My faith comes 1st, me 2nd, and then my kids 3rd.  That has to be a constant though- I can't put my faith or my own stability on the side to cater to my kids or anyone else.

I hope that helps a bit!

[tina7868]

Hi tina—just wanted to chime in and say still here, still reading, and still rooting for you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and reflections.

Like others have pointed out, I see significant growth from where you were months ago. Which is excellent! Sometimes I feel like I’m stuck and still ruminating over the same old things—then I pause and think how rough things were 6 months ago, a year ago, etc. My ex is still on my mind, but not as often. I still hurt from it all, but it’s not so raw.

Like you, I have made some major life decisions that on paper have all been good. But it does feel bittersweet because these were supposed to be moments shared with my ex. But I’m glad to be able to share those moments with others in my life—especially the friendships that have depended these past few months.

One foot forward…

Hi cranmango! I think bittersweet is the perfect word for what I have been feeling. Maybe there will always be some kind of love left, and that`s okay. Maybe some things will make sense later on, and can only be understood with the passage of time.

My friends have also been anchors for me, and it is important to remind myself that friendships are a type of relationship that offer strong bonds. They`re not romantic relationships, sure. But I am recognizing that they are maybe even more precious, and fulfilling.

I felt that several months back and I'd let the most ridiculous things hijack my day.

- The dog chewed up my socks- clearly I am failing my dog!  Why don't I have more chew toys!
- I forgot to pull meat out of the freezer for dinner.  Why am I so bad at life?
- My BPD kid is having a bad day, why can't I solve her problems or be there for her more often?

I'd go on and on, finding things I could have done better and using those things as an excuse not to just be happy in life.  Even when I was stable and content, there was always someone else with drama that I'd turn my attention to.  But in the end, I had to really take a step back and say that my happiness ALWAYS comes first.  Not in a selfish way like we'll always do what I want, but in a healthy way with boundaries that clearly separate my life struggles from everyone else's.

I now focus on my stuff first...and if you're the one causing drama, then I just step back for a bit since it's not healthy for me.

The reason this matters is because the people I do love and want to help in life, they deserve the best version of me and they can only get that if I have a healthy ego through prioritizing my own needs.  My faith comes 1st, me 2nd, and then my kids 3rd.  That has to be a constant though- I can't put my faith or my own stability on the side to cater to my kids or anyone else.

I hope that helps a bit!

Hi Pook! Recognizing unhealthy thought patterns really is so important. I think it also comes with having grace and forgiving yourself for when you show up as not your best self (and extending that to others). Having your priorities clearly laid out is also a way to live an intentional life; I think I used to make reactionary decisions, which I would regret down the line, but since I took the approach of deciding how I want to behave (give myself time, be kind, respect myself), it`s like I have clearer guidelines that help me act in a way I can get behind.

All very good reminders. I find that sometimes I get so lost in the moment that I forget these golden (hard earned) realizations. 

[tina7868]

You are not rambling. We are listening and paying attention. You are just sharing and allow yourself the freedom to do so. Essentially what I am guiding you towards is to be more vulnerable and being comfortable and confident with it. That means sharing regardless of your mood. You do not have to put on a facade here. Just be you. If you can get comfortable doing that here there is a high probability it will transfer to real world in your personal everyday life as well.

I was thinking about this a lot! Like I mentioned, I met a few new friends recently. Inevitably, the topic of relationships came up.

They were so open about themselves! And not only about funny annecdotes, but how they themselves might have `messed up`.

I used to always get tripped up over how, let`s say my ex was the one sharing his story on this board, you`d understand his perspective, and then maybe say that he needs to focus on himself and move on from the relationship. It was a convoluted way of seeing things, but with so many perspectives involved, what was the truth?

I realized that, it doesn`t matter. Everyone makes mistakes, and all you really can do is focus on you. Even the people who `acted crazy`...they are human, they needed the experience to learn and grow, then hopefully that`s what happened. The only real mistake would be to not have a certain amount of reflection after, and doing the same thing over and over again.

I also realized that I have this need for approval. I want to share in the `perfect` way, and I am worried about using the right phrasing, talking for too long.

So, in summary, how did it feel to share? At first, I was worried. Then I felt like there was more closeness and recognition of each other. I feel more forgiving towards myself, and towards others.

[SinisterComplex]

I was thinking about this a lot! Like I mentioned, I met a few new friends recently. Inevitably, the topic of relationships came up.

They were so open about themselves! And not only about funny annecdotes, but how they themselves might have `messed up`.

I used to always get tripped up over how, let`s say my ex was the one sharing his story on this board, you`d understand his perspective, and then maybe say that he needs to focus on himself and move on from the relationship. It was a convoluted way of seeing things, but with so many perspectives involved, what was the truth?

I realized that, it doesn`t matter. Everyone makes mistakes, and all you really can do is focus on you. Even the people who `acted crazy`...they are human, they needed the experience to learn and grow, then hopefully that`s what happened. The only real mistake would be to not have a certain amount of reflection after, and doing the same thing over and over again.

I also realized that I have this need for approval. I want to share in the `perfect` way, and I am worried about using the right phrasing, talking for too long.

So, in summary, how did it feel to share? At first, I was worried. Then I felt like there was more closeness and recognition of each other. I feel more forgiving towards myself, and towards others.

"I also realized that I have this need for approval. I want to share in the `perfect` way, and I am worried about using the right phrasing, talking for too long." - This will probably be the hardest lesson for you to learn.

However, step back and look at what you said. In a sense it is almost a way of saying you do not feel you are good enough to be your authentic self to people. I am pretty sure you want to have authentic and genuine people around you right? So how about we have you work on the other end of that...focus more on just being you...warts and all. That is the only way you will start to draw the positive energy and the right people to you.

Remember the universe kinda works like a mirror...you get back what you put out.

Keep your head up Tina. You are taking baby steps and making progress. I am happy for you and proud of you.

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-