I am NEVER right ...I am ALWAYS wrong

[Link]

Going on 26 years of marriage. We've been strained, really strained for the past 5 years. 28 years of being wrong and trying to appease.

I am so tired and depressed. My youngest daughter just graduated high school and my marriage is probably at it's worst point. Now we are facing the next stage of our lives and I just don't know how we are going to survive.

Saturday began with my wife upset that my brother was coming to the graduation. At one point last year I had been enduring weeks of torment from my wife. Including name calling, character assassination,  rage to the third degree, I was spit on, slapped, shoved, my work day filled with constant texting filled with insults. I could not take it anymore. I decided, that's it ...I'm actually going to leave and I am going to my brothers to spend the night. I did so. Now, my wife does not want to be around my brother. I needed someone to talk to, I needed to get away. My wife believes I was wrong and I shouldn't have went there. In her mind I was bad mouthing her to him and now she is uncomfortable around him and I've ruined her relationship with him. Even though he has treated her no differently since. Am I not aloud to talk to anyone? Am I doomed to silence and misery? I have no-one but my enemy. My wife. I feel hopeless.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lifehasitsups]

Thanks for sharing this. You are not wrong to get away. Being wrong all the time and I assume you are blamed for everything that goes wrong is exhausting.

My uBPD wife doesn’t want me to talk to anyone either and accuses me of always bad mouthing her. I have explained that I am not bad mouthing her, that by talking with family and friends I am looking for different ways to support her. It doesn’t go over well but it is the truth.

I wish you the best and hope the spitting, hitting, and shaming stops. It is not wrong to get the self care you need.

[Link]

Thank you for responding!

I don't know how to discuss the pain that I am going through without talking about what I'm going through! Going to my brother was not to talk bad about her, it was to get support that I desperately needed. Ultimately it did no good. He couldn't really help other than listen. I guess that is where I feel so hopeless. I've tried everything that I can think of for the past 20+ years to try and change, alter, please, give, whatever to try and appease her. Nothing helps, there is always something new to attack with. Or should I say something old to attack with. Because that is the issue. The past, the record of wrong. The constant broken record or merry go round. There is just heaps of resentment, on her end, that will not dissipate. Actual forgiveness and understanding do not happen with her...at least her actions do not show forgiveness or understanding.

Can change actually happen in people? Here's a scenario. I was 27 years old and I wanted to watch a movie that was rated R. It contained nudity. I didn't see anything wrong with it at the time, my wife did. After that I was called a pervert. We could not watch anymore rated R movies. I was accused of checking out every woman who walks by. I can't be looking at the TV if a pretty girl comes on. Yesterday I was accused of looking at some woman at my daughters graduation. (totally false) I, in my younger years did not see a problem with looking, not touching. I have changed that thought pattern and behavior because I realize that it hurts my wife and it is objectifying women. I'd like to add that it has been 20 years since this epiphany. None of that matters to my wife. I am accused continually of looking at other women but this is absolutely false. I have gone to great lengths to not even look in the direction of another women. And still...I will always be known as the pervert and all men are I might add. This is just one of many continuing issues that make me want to just give up. It's so hard to be on this roller coaster.

[Wrongturn1]

Wow, Link - I can relate to a lot of what you are dealing with here.  It will be 26 years of marriage to my uBPDw in August.  Similar story of mine:  when I was 25 years old, there happened to be a bikini contest held at a music festival where I was performing in a band.  I made the poor decision to be a spectator at the bikini contest, a decision I would certainly not make today for the same reasons you mention, and to this day I still have not heard the end of it.   

Yesterday I took my wife to a music festival in our area, and although nothing inappropriate was happening at the festival, it reminded my wife of my mistake from 22 years ago, and she has been in full meltdown mode since then.  Fortunately for me, my uBPDw is only emotionally abusive towards me (she's actually abusive towards herself more than anyone else), but it has been a bad time.  My wife keeps a record of every wrong I have ever done in our relationship, and she tends to trot out the list every time she is feeling dysregulated.

Our two kids have subpar relationships with her due to her behavior over the years, and I also wonder what will happen when our daughter graduates high school in three years.  Whatever does happen, I don't think it will be worse than the past few days, unless she ends up murdering me, which does make me a tad nervous since she spends several hours each day listening to podcasts mostly about spousal murder...LOL, but seriously.

[Link]

It's amazing to me that you could even go to a music festival. I haven't been to one in years. I love music and was in a band in my younger years as well. A graduation ceremony is the best I can attend and that's just because it's a necessity.

[Wrongturn1]

Yeah, I think this was the first music festival I have been to in the past probably 20 years, and it took some convincing by me to get my wife to go (a good friend was playing at the festival, and I wanted to attend but not without my wife as I was concerned about what accusations she might make up if she were not there).  Oh well, it didn't end well either way. 

Hopefully you are still playing music - even if just by yourself, it's a great outlet from the stress of dealing with a BPD spouse.

[Link]

Playing in a band was very incompatible with an overly jealous wife. I came to a point in my young life that I had to choose a family with my young wife, she was 21 and I was 26, or continue to pursue a music career. Obviously, I didn't choose the later. I'm a drummer, I found that not being able to drive a band was unappealing to me and just plain loud. I gave it up. Maybe if I would have invested in a sweet electronic set I would have continued on my own. Instead, I traded all of that in for a 26 year roller coaster ride that I can't get off. Sometimes I just feel like jumping from the cart. It's so hard to endure the misery.

[Link]

Right now she is blowing up my phone at work. It is the most aggravating thing. The comments are always about our relationship and always negative. I tell her constantly to please not do that. I can't work and text and especially discuss difficult subjects all day long over text. She doesn't care.

I am right now typing this at work. I shouldn't be. I should be working but I just need some sanity. I am going insane.

Does anyone have an apple watch? do you have it set to buzz when a text comes in? My wife carpet bombs. One short sentence after another. My wrist buzzing will send you to the loony bin.

[Wrongturn1]

I can relate, Link.  I stopped playing in bands within a couple of years after the bikini contest episode.  It just was not worth it to be interrogated after (or during) every gig about who was dancing in front of the bandstand, what they were wearing, doing, etc.  I'd encourage you to get an electronic drum kit at least so you can blow off some steam quietly when the opportunity arises.  

[Wrongturn1]

Whew, that sounds rough...mercifully I don't have an Apple watch.  I know what you mean about posting here to keep some sanity but needing to work...speaking of work, I'd better get back to it.

[Link]

LOL yes I hear you. Thank you for your responses. They've been a help today.

Don't get an apple watch!

I initially got an apple watch to make sure I didn't miss any of her texts. If I was away from my desk at work I would leave my phone at my desk. She uses gps on me to make sure that I am at my desk. Because of course if I'm not I must be talking to a bunch of imaginary ladies. By the time I would get back she would have been blowing me up for 20 minutes and wondering why I'm not texting back in a timely manner. The watch would alert me to her texts but not show my location in the shop. At least that is the way I think it works, I may have to verify that.

[kells76]

Right now she is blowing up my phone at work. It is the most aggravating thing. The comments are always about our relationship and always negative. I tell her constantly to please not do that. I can't work and text and especially discuss difficult subjects all day long over text. She doesn't care.

I am right now typing this at work. I shouldn't be. I should be working but I just need some sanity. I am going insane.

Does anyone have an apple watch? do you have it set to buzz when a text comes in? My wife carpet bombs. One short sentence after another. My wrist buzzing will send you to the loony bin.

Hey Link, glad we can be here to support you! When there's a pwBPD in our lives, we can need support at any moment, any time -- even during the workday, sigh. Been there myself.

The part of your post in bold above really stood out to me. You tried what most "normal" partners would try, with a "normal" partner -- saying "Please don't do XYZ" and then offering an explanation. For most normal relationships, that'd work, right? But it hasn't worked with your W.

Fortunately, there are some options in front of you.

You know that you have some needs -- if you're going to keep your job, you need to be productive and focused at work. No matter who the texts are from, you can't keep your job and also be interrupted by dozens of texts all the time. You've already tried Approach #1: saying "Please don't do that". There is an approach #2, and though it will take some fortitude on your part, long-term it may be very effective.

You can have a boundary for yourself about what you choose to participate in at work. You can tell yourself "I choose to reply to texts during my lunch hour at work. Otherwise, I turn off notifications and do not engage." Notice how this approach doesn't require her to change how she thinks, behaves, etc?

Now, the tough part is that often, pwBPD do what is sometimes termed an extinction burst when encountering a different response to their behavior. In brief, it's an escalation of the behavior before it finally dwindles out. Check out the link to learn more about how to navigate extinction bursts.

But it kind of sounds like -- things are already not great, and her incessant texting is interfering with your ability to earn a living. Sure, she might be mad that you decide for yourself not to respond to texts 24/7. But really, how much worse could it get? If you think through it ahead of time and are committed to not "rewarding" her text barrage, then stopping responding/checking could, long-term, be a way to go.

You can also decide for yourself if you want to give her a heads-up to your "new normal": "Hey babe, just want to let you know that I am able to respond to your texts from 12:30-1:00 every day. I love you, hope you have a great day!" (or whatever sounds like you). Notice that you don't have to "make" her cooperate or do anything differently. She could send 500 texts and the great thing is, you control if and when you respond.

It's an idea -- you know her best, what do you think?

[Link]

Thank you kells76. I really appreciate the advice and taking time to give it.

Probably 23 years ago I picked up a copy of Boundaries by Henry Cloud and Townsend. It was an eye opener in so many ways. Unfortunately I have had problems putting and keeping boundaries in place with my wife. She uses every method possible to get around them. I understand that it is diligence on my part that will hopefully bring about the desired outcome, but it is very difficult with her.

Here are some methods that she uses.

I have told her I will not talk about relationship issues via text at work. She sort of agrees but she will text normal things that I respond to and she gradually shifts to relationship. At some point I have to turn off notifications because it gets out of hand ... on her end. If I don't respond to her, I am a bad husband and I must be cheating with someone in the office because I'm not responding to important issues. She always finds a way to slip that in. I could at this point say I'm done texting at work, but she expects me to talk to her on the way to work, talk to her at lunch, and talk to her on the ride home. On those occasions the conversation can go south and it spills into texts again when I go into work in the morning or return to work after lunch. She is always looking to break the boundary and get her way.

She also tells me that I am always trying to control the situation. By not responding with text I am being a controlling jerk. She says I'm trying manipulate every situation.

It is so frustrating when you just want a normal relationship of mutual trust, love, and respect and it looks like you will never have it.

[Link]

I do have a new observation that kinda hit me this morning. Last night started off rough with more blaming and obstinance. My 18 year old daughter was sitting on the couch which was a rarity these days. My wife stormed outside after a mouth full of yelling which left me and my daughter alone. My daughter shook her head and said she never sees when she is wrong. It's always someone else's fault. This is true.

After my wife came back in she proceeded to go to the bedroom and I followed her. I decided to try and shift the discussion to dinner and that calmed things down. I cooked some chicken and I asked if she would like a glass of wine with it. She did. We proceeded to drink the whole bottle. My wife is not a mean drunk. She never has been. She's a sappy sorta cry baby drunk. I don't mean it in a mean way, it's just how she is. Thing is, we were able to discuss things. It felt like we got somewhere. It felt like she heard me. It felt like maybe we had a turning point.

We went to bed still on a high note. This morning though, I could tell that the clouds were starting to roll back in. Sucks because she doesn't really remember if we accomplished anything with the talk.

Why is this? I'm not advocating alcohol to help with BPD, but does she need something to help her focus? Is DBT the only option for treating BPD?

My wife has not been diagnosed with BPD. She refuses to be labeled. she rejects going to a therapist. I just am convinced that she exhibits every single trait that BPD has to offer.

[Wrongturn1]

...I asked if she would like a glass of wine with it. She did. We proceeded to drink the whole bottle. My wife is not a mean drunk. She never has been. She's a sappy sorta cry baby drunk. I don't mean it in a mean way, it's just how she is. Thing is, we were able to discuss things. It felt like we got somewhere. It felt like she heard me. It felt like maybe we had a turning point.

We went to bed still on a high note. This morning though, I could tell that the clouds were starting to roll back in. Sucks because she doesn't really remember if we accomplished anything with the talk.

I would suggest being careful with the alcohol.  Many BPDs develop substance abuse problems - my wife had a drinking problem for several years before quitting in 2022 (woohoo!).  During her drinking years, she started out as a fun drunk, and slowly morphed into a belligerent, volatile drunk.  The alcohol seemed to exaggerate the BPD symptoms, and it was a huge relief when she quit. 

She got herself into counseling at our son's suggestion (I had suggested it many times but she never listened) at about the same time she quit drinking and then had a really good year+ from March 2022 until this past weekend when she fell apart again.  She's still not drinking again however, and I hope that continues.

[Link]

Yes, I do keep the possibility of alcohol abuse in my mind. She is 47 and has never had a problem with it, nor has anyone in her family either. But one thing I've learned in life is never say never. Anything can happen.

[Link]

Has anyone ever been spit on by your partner? I mean, just all out in the face. Wow that's hard to keep it cool after that. I've had to, it is hard to set aside and not think about.

[Pook075]

Hi Link, and thanks for posting.  So much of what you've shared resonates in my life as well.  24 year marriage, separated for 10 months and divorcing in August.  Why?  I really have no idea.  It might be because I went and shot pool with a friend after work 22 years ago.  It's a different reason every time, but nothing that's happened within the last decade.  And as I went through my own journey of moving on and figuring out what happened, something finally clicked inside my head- this really isn't about me.  I didn't do anything wrong.  I just didn't understand BPD and how to deal with it in everyday life.

As others have shared, soak up as much knowledge as you can here, read the sticky threads and links at the top of the page.  Also try to focus on yourself more, talking to friends and family does help, even if they can't understand what's actually happening.  Consider counseling as well with a therapist- many of us have here and it does a world of good.

Most importantly though, you have to accept that this is not your fault- you didn't cause this.  It's a chemical imbalance in your wife's brain that makes her think a certain way, project certain feelings towards others.  You can't fix it, but you can certainly learn to soothe your wife by validating her feelings (pain, sadness, anger, suffering, etc).

The good news is that you have friends here to help you make sense of all this and learn some tools to improve your relationship.  Feel free to ask questions or just vent, it's all part of the process.  You will get through this!

[Wrongturn1]

24 year marriage, separated for 10 months and divorcing in August.  Why?  I really have no idea.  It might be because I went and shot pool with a friend after work 22 years ago. 

That must have been one sinister game of billiards, LOL!  But I can relate...there's no statute of limitations on things my uBPDw gets upset about.  The episodes mine consistently dredges up are things that happened 18 to 22 years ago. 

Yesterday morning she said she thinks we should consider getting marriage counseling, to which I agreed, but then she immediately backtracked (likely realizes any reasonable third party would take my side) and said she didn't think counseling would help and the likely scenarios she sees are us getting divorced and/or suicide for her.  These are all things she has said before, and nothing ever really changes - the realistic scenario is that she will continue to try to blame me for all her negative emotions, and I will stick it out because I'm committed to the marriage.   

[Link]

Thank you Pook075! I could have piggybacked off of many of your statements, they were all great, but the final sentence really hit me. You may have just stuck it in there as a hang in there bro type statement but "You will get through this!"...Oh I wish that was true. I wish it was like a bad case of Covid where you are running a fever for 2 straight weeks but on the 15th day it is gone. You are able to see that it's run it's course. Things will get better now and you're not going to die. I never feel that way with my wife. I have dealt with this now for 26 years or so. It's only gotten worse. She will not go to counseling, she believes I will bad mouth her to the counselor. I'm not aloud to have friends, I'm bad mouthing and doing immoral things if I am with other people in her mind. I don't even go to the store, if I do I was checking out every girl there. I've given up basically my whole life to try and limit the outbursts. I've convinced myself that I don't need anyone, I don't need to go anywhere, and all I need is my wife. I spend a portion of everyday listening, validating, reassuring, avoiding triggers...ect. It's really pretty maddening.

So...will I get through this? Is death when I get through this? I don't believe in divorce. I made a commitment to this woman. I do love her despite all of this. Through sickness and health. This is sickness...sometimes I think mental sickness is way worse than physical.

[Link]

Totally relate Wrongturn1

If my wife said let's go to counseling, I would be all over that. It's not likely to ever happen though.

Life consists of appeasement, calm..., emotional escalation with no apparent cause, rage...appeasement, calm...ect.

If I take appeasement out of the mix, it looks like this. Calm..., escalation, rage, I push back, more rage..., unbearable fighting, days of hell..., hopelessness, pain and depression, then something happens that has no rhyme or reason that calms her down...peace. The peace is so desperately wanted that I embrace it and try to forget the war.

Rinse repeat

[Wrongturn1]

I'm not aloud to have friends, I'm bad mouthing and doing immoral things if I am with other people in her mind. I don't even go to the store, if I do I was checking out every girl there. I've given up basically my whole life to try and limit the outbursts. I've convinced myself that I don't need anyone, I don't need to go anywhere, and all I need is my wife. I spend a portion of everyday listening, validating, reassuring, avoiding triggers...ect. It's really pretty maddening.

This reminds me of an absolute classic post on BPDFamily from a decade ago or so.  I couldn't find it, but the gist of it was this:

Picture yourself in this hypothetical situation:  one day, you walk out into your back yard, and notice there is a huge hole in the ground.  You think to yourself, "this hole is really a problem; I would like for it to go away...in fact it's hugely important to me that I make this hole go away...maybe I can fill it up with a few things I have on hand." 

Say you happen to be a hiker and a mountain biker, so you toss in your mountain bike, your helmet, your backpack, your tent, your hiking shoes.  You then look into the hole and notice it has not gotten any smaller, so you find some more of your things and you throw them in.  Still, the hole is just as deep and wide, so you start tossing in more important things, like your career, all your friends, and your family members.  You look again at the hole, and in horror, you realize it is a bottomless pit; no matter what you throw in there, the bottomless pit will remain.

That's what it's like to sacrifice parts of your life to appease a BPD significant other.  You didn't dig that pit, and you can't possibly make it go away.

So why would you even try?

[Pook075]

Thank you Pook075! I could have piggybacked off of many of your statements, they were all great, but the final sentence really hit me. You may have just stuck it in there as a hang in there bro type statement but "You will get through this!"...Oh I wish that was true.

Here's the thing buddy, I said that very intentionally because right now, you feel like you have a minefield all around you and you're just trying to avoid the next explosion.  We've all been there and it really, really stinks.

In your mind, you're thinking, "What can I do to fix this?"  We know you're thinking that because that's what we all did.  In a normal relationship, you go buy some flowers, make a nice dinner, give a sincere apology, and everything is forgotten.  But in the BPD world, that doesn't work because it's not something you did wrong, it's a disordered way of thinking that's the actual problem.

So let me answer that question for you.  What can you do to fix this?  The answer is nothing.  You can't fix it, only your spouse can. 

At the same time though, it's equally important for you to realize that you're not the problem either.  Mental illness is the problem and your spouse doesn't know how to handle the intense emotions that come with BPD.  While you can't "fix her", you can learn better communication techniques that keep things from escalating.  You can also learn to put up healthy boundaries as well so you're not the focus of her abuse all the time. 

It's like drawing a line in the sand- if you do this, I'm doing that.  Then you follow through every time.

Buddy, this is a process and I promise that you will be okay on the other side of this.  Maybe it doesn't turn out the way you hope, but you absolutely will be okay regardless of the outcome.  That's why the most crucial piece of advice everyone gives is to be a little selfish right now and focus on your own needs, what makes you feel happy and complete.  Consider therapy.  Do your homework.  Focus more on yourself and what you need outside the marriage to make you feel whole.  You'll get there, I promise.

[ENG89]

This is an excellent thread that captures daily life very well!  My UDPBD Wife is exactly all of what you described. We have been married for 33 years and our daughter is grown with her own family.

I have read the books, gone to 5 different therapists. We went as a couple each time and I was accused of badmouthing her. None of the counseling applied to her, I was wrong. The last therapist said that she likely has BPD, but will not get evaluated. The therapist said my marriage will last as long as I can stand it. That was 8 years ago. I have been setting boundaries and carrying them out for years now. The behavior does not change. It is consuming to deal with.

I set boundaries of acceptable behavior and what my actions would be. I left 7 times over the past 8 years, for a period of 1 to 3 days. In 2021, I left for 10 days and did not tell her where I was. She ultimately contacted my sister to find me. They developed a relationship that lasted about a month after I came back home. Then my sister did not acknowledge her and she was not remorseful for having wronged my wife. My wife disowned my sister and never spoke to her again.

I too have "badmouthed" my wife to everyone, which did not happen. My sister experienced it first hand, so I did not have to say a word. My wife has not spoken to anyone on her side of the family since 2017, when our daughter got married. She disowned them long before that, but she had to talk with them when our daughter invited them to her wedding.

Last December she continued the derogatory attack, as usual, and then had too much to drink and became violent and she spit on me almost 30 times. I finally left for the night to a hotel. I would have left for good, but our daughter's family was coming for Christmas and I did not want to give that up!

My wife has an issue with where we live! There is always something wrong. It was too cold and gloomy, so we moved from Indiana to Texas. She hated Texas, but did not want to move back to Indiana. We rented a home for 9 months in Goodyear, Arizona. When then built a house and there was too much jet noise. We rented a home in Peoria, Arizona for a month, while paying the mortgage in Goodyear. That was too loud too. We rented a home in the far east valley, near Scottsdale, AZ for 9 months. We then built a house there and sold the Goodyear home. We have been here for 3 years. Now she wants to move back to Indiana, because everything is too far away! I am not doing that! Arizona is where I want to live. This was why we rented here for 9 months, to make sure it would be ok! She continually yells that she wants a divorce and then I say ok and then I am not fighting for us! I am in the continuous loop of "I hate you, don't leave me"!

My boundaries continue to tighten and this becomes continually more unbearable. I will not uproot my life again by trying to move for her to find peace. It will never happen. This is beyond the normal tools of validation and avoiding triggers. She is triggered by where we live and it is my fault for not listening to her!

I do not believe in divorce, but I also do not believe in the unending abuse. I have tried my best and I feel she is getting worse with age. I do have a lawyer, after hearing all the divorce threats, and his experience with BPD spouses is that they do not get better without treatment, they usually get worse. He handled a BPD divorce for a couple in their 80's, as he could not stand it anymore. I am torn on how to move forward, but my ability to function in this after 33 years is wearing on me. I am concerned about health issues as I get older and being in the situation of misery where I have to rely on her for help that would come at such a cost that I could not bear.

I know that I will be ok either way this goes. I am ready for the boundaries to be respected or for the marriage to end. I am good either way. Something has to change!

Thanks for listening. I appreciate hearing from folks that have been married a long time and have similar experiences. 

[Link]

ENG89 thanks for your post.

What I read in your post was true to life. That's the way it is with a bpd partner. I've read the books, I've adjusted my behavior, the way I communicate ...setting boundaries...ect. The outcome is basically the same. If you want conflict, push back on your bpd partner. If you want temporary calm, give them what they want. It really does come down to the one with bpd needs to want change and work hard to achieve it. Where does that leave us? Enduring the misery.

Is there an actual relationship that has recovered from bpd. Is there hope if your bpd partner won't seek help? Any true to life stories on this sight with an awesome outcome? I really want to know. I want some hope.

I have dug a little and I see that typically an ultimatum is given and the bpd partner chooses help. I've done this. It's hell and hard to follow through. I have older children, young adults, living with us. I feel responsible to help them until they move out. Maybe after they leave I can draw that line in the sand and actually stick to it if that is the only solution.

[kells76]

Hey Link;

ENG89 thanks for your post.

What I read in your post was true to life. That's the way it is with a bpd partner. I've read the books, I've adjusted my behavior, the way I communicate ...setting boundaries...ect. The outcome is basically the same. If you want conflict, push back on your bpd partner. If you want temporary calm, give them what they want. It really does come down to the one with bpd needs to want change and work hard to achieve it. Where does that leave us? Enduring the misery.

Is there an actual relationship that has recovered from bpd. Is there hope if your bpd partner won't seek help? Any true to life stories on this sight with an awesome outcome? I really want to know. I want some hope.

I have dug a little and I see that typically an ultimatum is given and the bpd partner chooses help. I've done this. It's hell and hard to follow through. I have older children, young adults, living with us. I feel responsible to help them until they move out. Maybe after they leave I can draw that line in the sand and actually stick to it if that is the only solution.

It's a good question, and one that a lot of members have. It could be that the answer is both "Yes" and "It depends".

I suspect that partners in a "recovered BPD" relationship don't tend to post here, so this is sort of a self-selecting sample that trends towards difficult/continuing conflict relationships. That doesn't mean that there aren't recovered relationships, just that here, specifically, you might not tend to see those. Here tends to be more "I'm at the end of my rope, he won't go to counseling, what can I do", which is a subsection of all BPD relationships. BPD being a spectrum disorder will also impact the stories you hear.

It'd be interesting if any DBT treatment centers have relationship success stories posted on their web sites. We do have some listed up top, in the Success Stories sticky post.

It also depends on one's definition of "success", too. You may have already read here that some members view their relationships as "emotional special needs" relationships -- just like we would have different expectations of what a person in a wheelchair could do, some members change their expectations of what their partners are emotionally capable of. So, if a member recalibrates her relational expectations from "we have weekly deep, meaningful, heart-to-heart conversations that are mutually supportive, and we never yell at each other" to "I leave the room when my partner yells and allow him to self-soothe, I decline to participate in hearing abusive language, and if I see him dysregulate, I excuse myself to participate in self care and return when we can have a positive time together" -- yes, that could be a relationship that is as successful as it's gonna get, under the circumstances of the BPD partner's profound emotional limitations.

It's hard when kids are involved; I get what you're saying about wanting to be there for them when they're living at home. My H's kids' mom has many BPD traits/behaviors (and she is married to someone with strong NPD traits  ), and the kids are 15 & 17 right now. It's so stressful, I understand.

What could success look like in the near-term (I'm guessing next couple of years?) as you navigate staying in the relationship while the kids are around? For me, I've had to recalibrate "success" away from "we and the kids' mom warmly collaborate for the kids' well-being and we always stick to the parenting time schedule" to "I only text Mom if I've come to terms with both outcomes ahead of time, we stop fighting for every minute of parenting time, and we never expect reciprocity or fairness from Mom".

How could you define "success" for your own situation, no matter what anyone else's looks like? What would feel like the "least worst", but also achievable, possibility?

[Pook075]

I suspect that partners in a "recovered BPD" relationship don't tend to post here, so this is sort of a self-selecting sample that trends towards difficult/continuing conflict relationships. That doesn't mean that there aren't recovered relationships, just that here, specifically, you might not tend to see those.

I have a BPD daughter and a soon to be BPD ex-wife.  Because my wife couldn't handle adversity, I always had to be the "tough" parent while my wife walked on eggshells.  And my kid hated me- she literally told people I was the devil.  But I didn't care, because I was going to do what was best for her in every situation...whether it was having her committed, save her from being kicked out of school, or whatever.  LOL, she was living destruction for several years there.

That daughter and I are now best friends.  She had already went thru CBT and many would say it didn't work, but the truth is that my kid just wasn't ready to accept that she had problems and needed change.  She's supposed to start DBT soon so that's not a factor here either.  Once she decided that she was tired of feeling broken, it was like a light switch was flipped- we apologized to each other and all of a sudden, we were close.  Within a few weeks we were inseparable.  I have a relationship with my daughter today that I never could have dreamed of.

Now, I know this isn't a successful marriage story, but if I wanted to wait it out for my wife to be ready to change, I am 100% positive that we could get there.  My kid was so much worse than my wife's condition...100x worse.  So I know it's possible and I know what "fixes" the relationship...it's acceptance and a willingness to change.  The real question here is how long is someone willing to wait, how much abuse will they endure before reaching that "aha" moment?

And here's the other side of the coin.  The pwBPD looks at us loving them, tolerating them, and it makes them feel empowered.  Why should they try to change if we'll just take the blame for everything?  That tells them we're the problem, the reason for their unhappiness.  So the abuse only gets worse until boundaries go up.  But they fight the boundaries so it gets worse again, and the relationship usually implodes.  We get pushed to the side and they bring their chaos elsewhere.

Why did it work with my daughter?  Because I was willing to wait out the storm while remaining supportive from a distance.  With our spouses, that's much harder to do and we give up hope.  With my kid, it took almost a decade (age 13 to 23)...and I'm just not willing to wait that long for my wife to reach her mental rock bottom to seek real treatment or realize her mistakes. bUT it's not fair to say this is a 10-year process...that's what it was for my kid because we spotted it so early and fought like mad to help her.  Once she was serious about changing, it was maybe 8-9 months to become a completely balanced person and the daughter I always hoped for.

The honest truth, however, is that she had to help herself, she had to want changes for anything to matter.  When our BPD loved ones get there, on their own timetables, that's when the true healing and acceptance begins.

Just remember that every case is different and I believe that our disordered spouses still love us very much.  One thing my kid said that's always stuck with me was something like, "I was so mean to you and lashed out at you the worst because I needed your love the most.  I always loved my daddy with all my heart and I needed him to love me the same way."  

The thing is, I always loved her that much...she just couldn't see it because she was hurting so badly inside.  

BPD is heartbreaking, my friends, and these people we see as monsters are the way they are because they hold onto so many unhealthy emotions that tell them we're only around to hurt them, to bring them down.  But a part of them also loves us deeply so they're tormented in this loop of anguish and self-doubt.  It's so heartbreaking and even though I'll divorce in August, I love my wife more than ever before...because I now understand how deeply she's hurt throughout our marriage.  She just hid it so well.  I'm letting her go because I love her and it's the best thing for her life right now.

[Link]

These are some really great responses that I need to chew on. I am at work with a ton to do but I will be responding because this is so helpful. Thank you

[Wrongturn1]

A success story of sorts:  my wife more or less "took the year off" from exhibiting BPD traits after she got herself into counseling (at our son's suggestion), stopped drinking, and started exercising on a regular basis.  

My hypothesis about the helpfulness of the counseling is that seeing the counselor required her to talk through her feelings with a neutral third party, and in explaining things to the counselor, she was forced to see that her emotional extremes were not proportional with her actual experiences that she cites as the reasons for her self-loathing and blaming me for all her problems.  Without being able to square her feelings with the facts in that setting, she reverted to basing her feelings on the facts of her situation instead of vice-versa.

Then her counselor went on maternity leave for 12 weeks, and the wheels have started to fall off.  Her self-loathing and blame gaming have started again, making her a drag to be around.  But at least she hasn't resumed drinking, and she is still exercising.  Hoping that counselor comes back to work soon!

[kells76]

I can share a similar story (with my H's kids' mom):

Long story short, when the kids were finally able to get counseling many years ago, Mom had chosen the counselor -- naturally, H and I were suspicious. The C ended up having a good head on her shoulders and really seeing the dynamics at play, but was still able to keep Mom's buy-in to the kids' counseling. I suspect the C used an approach of "You're a good mom, and let me tell you what good moms do -- they cooperate with coparenting, they follow the schedule, they encourage the kids to get through discomfort, etc". Basically the only time that the kids both didn't want to go with us for something, AND Mom actually presented a "united front" with H so they were both telling the kids "this is what's happening", was when a C was involved. Once the counseling ended, Mom was back to her usual self of abdicating her parenting responsibilities and passive-aggressive undermining of the parenting plan.

So, yes, there can be times of success when neutral third party professionals are involved.

And Link, yes, take your time, no rush on responding. It's a lot to digest, and I want to reiterate that there isn't a right or wrong answer for how your life moves forward.