More money worries…

[thankful person]

Impossible situation again. I know about caretaking, I know it makes things worse…and yet for many of us it is the only way to keep the relationship going. As I’ve said before, with this being a “special needs relationship with an emotionally disabled person” we know we have to remember to validate, don’t jade, and yes to some extent, walk on eggshells. If you don’t do these things it seems you pay the price.

My dbpdw wants me to earn more money. I have worked out our finances. Even if I weren’t working school holidays at all then I am still earning more than the government’s expectation of a person working full time on minimum wage. To make things clear, I teach piano 2 days per week at a local school. I have on average 2 hours teaching every evening (online and at student’s homes). I do one hour Saturday and one hour Sunday. I could have more, but my wife didn’t want me teaching online any later and didn’t want them in the house at all (and it was a relief to finally make this change and stop her whining about that aspect (of feeling prisoner in her own home) aspect. But basically I have most of the day off on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. My wife still always complains that it’s still a work day and I still have commitments etc.

Today I taught all day at nursery as an extra day. My wife was very unhappy about this as “we never spend any time together” “you teach everyone else to play the piano and don’t have time to teach me”. I have been giving my wife an increased allowance in the hope she’d spend less on credit cards. The increased allowance is only affordable if I work through the school holidays. My wife is now complaining because I dared to ask what days I should teach next week (half term). There is literally never a good time to bring it up. We are very busy with the kids. Whenever I bring it up she has a go at me that work is all I ever talk about.

My account is overdrawn and I want to work next week. But my wife is saying nothing will change when the kids are at school and I won’t take school holidays off for them. That’s not true but who knows what the future holds.

I feel weak and emotional. I’ve not been at all well. My wife made me feel guilty about there being “no food in the house” as apparently she can’t afford it with her groceries allowance. All she had all day was Mcdonalds breakfast and chocolate for lunch. I said I needed to look after myself and made myself a microwave meal. The problem is she only wants takeaways. I would eat bread and butter to save money if I had to, but it would never come to that because I would budget and plan the week’s meals in advance and actually enjoy them. This worked well for me in the very short 3 months I’ve lived alone as an adult.

Help me work through all this please. I know I’ve had so much help on here and I really appreciate it.

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[Notwendy]

Mostly I share things that I have tried to do that helped. For the money issues, this is something that is still problematic- not for me personally, but for BPD mother. She's quite elderly now and - as long as she has access to money, she misuses it.

I've posted before how this was an issue in my family growing up and my father went into debt over it. We compensated by doing with less money for what we wanted. My father was stressed over it, and even went into debt. Yet, there was no sense of moderation on my mother's part and there still isn't.

When Dad got ill, I got concerned about the possibility of the situation that is going on today- BPD mother mismanaging the money left to her. I tried to assist with managing it for her. She'd have nothing to do with that. Her monthly income from a pension would ordinarily be plenty for most people, but "enough" is a feeling, an emotional state. There's not ever "enough" of anything for her because, external things can not soothe her emotions. So she took out a second mortgage on her home, moved to a smaller place at assisted living when she ran out of money. As soon as this money got in her hands, she's spending extravagantly.

We have learned on this board that we can only control ourselves, not someone else. There are only two ways to options to control BPD mother's spending: legal action to prove she's mentally incompetent ( we have enough evidence now) and take custody of her or to let her run out of money, because the only way to stop her spending erratically is if there's no more to spend.

I'm posting this situation because, as much as the tools we learn here can help us to manage, we can't control someone else. Even though there can be similar patterns in behavior in BPD relationships, each situation is unique and each person has their own values, boundaries, and deal breakers. Not all pwBPD have the same behaviors but some pw BPD have more problematic behaviors. Examples of these are physical abuse, addiction, infidelity, and mismanaging money. These aren't unique to pwBPD and are problems in any relationship. In addition, BPD is a spectrum.

You have worked with children and understand the difference between a want and a need. To a young child, these are the same in the moment. The difference between a toddler and an adult though, is that the toddler isn't a legal adult with a bank account and the adult and their wants are different. Emotionally though, when they want something, it's similar.

The issue isn't that you don't earn enough money, it's that your wife's emotional needs can not be met with any amount of money. Your wife's emotional needs are not based on reality- to earn money, you'd need to be away from the house more. But she wants you to be at home to help her and earn money at the same time. This isn't possible.

Again, we can only change ourselves. You have your limits as well. To work all the time to earn more while she spends more will not help the finances overall. She's not likely to  be able to control her spending as long as money is coming in- or her expectations. I have seen that with my mother who is elderly. The change will come from you. IMHO, part of this is self worth. Supporting your family is important and a valuable contribution to the family but you are not an ATM machine for your wife.

[Notwendy]

So admittedly, I am in a bit of emotional upset over this issue myself. I don't know exactly why, because, it's not my money and I am not connected to my mother's spending. At one point, I was dependent on my parents as a child, but not now.

I see how you are working more, doing less for yourself and your wife doesn't consider your basic needs at all.

Dad did that too. He didn't buy anything for himself, BPD mother bought the best of everything and anything she wanted. Dad ate microwave meals. Sometimes I sent him some of his favorite foods but have no idea if he got them or she did something else with them.

She spent down all the savings Dad left her, then took out a home equity loan and spent all of that. Then she moved and got some money from the house sale and is immediately going through that, exceeding her monthly income by thousands of dollars despite all her family trying to convince her to not do this to herself.

She could care less and what she's doing with her money is shockingly careless and selfish.

So yes, this is an emotional issue - and I know of no way of getting my mother to care more, to be more careful with her money- even for her own sake. The issue isn't money- she has enough of it. It's her mental illness.

[thankful person]

Not Wendy, thank you for sharing more of your story and for your support and patience. Honestly, every time your responses bring me comfort and clarity. I am in a marriage where things would have been much worse had I not found the forum and associated reading and support from you all. I find your mother’s behaviour sounds a lot like my wife’s though my wife also includes the children in her overspending so at least they are getting clothes and toys and nice food! I feel for your father going through all this before there were resources available to help him cope. Strangely when you told me incidents about your family when we first met, we were in the process of buying a new home which you may remember didn’t work out. When I read your stories I imagined your family living in my new home (I lack imagination…) I We didn’t end up there in the end but I’m glad for my managing to make some improvements in my relationship and self worth. The bpd goes on. And on. Of course.

Today my wife pressured me to come home after school instead of going to see my students. I bargained with her that she’d have to return the new allowance amount that she got from me this morning and she agreed. I also told myself what I told my students which is that I’m still unwell and need a break. Unfortunately of course things went downhill as my wife’s idea was to dress up and we’d both drink wine while I built a ton of play equipment for the garden. Haha like I can pay her attention whilst also doing all that and like wine ever helped us… Added complication of one of the children’s older friends coming round and helping me to build the slide and my wife felt left out.

I thought she got over it then when she was putting baby to bed she suddenly screeched, “give him here and get out!” And I’m like, “do you have a problem with me?” And she’s like, “yeah I’ve been pissed with you all afternoon!” I said, “I thought you were ok” and she’s like “did I say I was ok with you?” And I’m like, “no” and walked away.

I’m sorry for the money problems your mother is bringing upon herself. I understand that you are not going to claim mental incapacity for the time being and I guess your siblings are in agreement. I feel like this about my parents because my Dad is very sick with Parkinson’s and I know my mother isn’t coping being his main carer but they are both so stubborn. It helps to basically know there’s nothing I can do about my wife’s feelings of never being satisfied, never having enough. I understand there are actions I can take to limit her credit card spending, which life with ease mentioned recently. Aside from that I need to stay true to myself and support the family. I have decided to work 1.5 days next week and announced it as non-negotiable.

[Notwendy]

A family member has put their name on the account to help manage it. If we see that her behavior with money continues to put her in financial jeopardy, we will go to court and have a guardian appointed to her. I understand it's hard on both aging parents and children to have these sorts of roles reversed and for the parent to feel a loss of control. Hopefully your parents will allow their grown children to assist them with money management when they feel they need to.

I tried to do this for my parents but I didn't understand BPD well and BPD mother wouldn't allow it.

You may have to assert more control over your earnings than you want to, but it's important to protect your money for your family's basic needs.

[zondolit]

The issue isn't that you don't earn enough money, it's that your wife's emotional needs can not be met with any amount of money. Your wife's emotional needs are not based on reality- to earn money, you'd need to be away from the house more. But she wants you to be at home to help her and earn money at the same time. This isn't possible.

Early in my marriage my husband and I were trying to make plans. He wanted to do two things in different places at the same time. I pointed out, logically, "But it's impossible to be in two places at the same time!" At the time, I had no idea what I was up against. For him it was an emotional thing: he couldn't choose and so he was, in his own way, imagining both travel plans happening at once. My finding this ridiculous did not help the situation. I can also now see this was fear-inducing in me: what sort of adult thinks this way? Yikes! And likely my husband picked up on this fear even more than me.

Now when this occurs with my children I have a different response (because I've learned and because I have different expectations for children than adults). Sometimes they have two invitations for fun things and have to decide which one they will go to. This is agonizing for them. I am much more attuned to the emotional turmoil of having to choose between two good things and I can help them through this.

Your situation is much more high-stakes. Can you formulate a plan for your work schedule that you think is best, communicate this to your wife simply and clearly and without rancor (maybe put the schedule on the fridge), and then when issues come up (as they are bound to) do not deviate from the agreed schedule? Simply point out this was the agreement and don't engage any more on that.

But do attend to your wife's emotional needs as much as you can. Validate! "I don't like to be away from you either!" "Of course it is hard to be alone at home with the children!" "It sure would be nice to have the money to spend on that! Maybe some day we will." Engage in fantasy about what you'd do if you had gazillions to spend however you wanted. (Be prepared that she may spend none of her fortune on you despite the diamond-a-day subscription you've ordered for her, or whatever.)

My experience is that the initial push back to sticking with a schedule will be awful. Your wife will try all sorts of ways to get you to deviate from the agreement, including placing the children in the middle of the battle. But if you can hold the line, while being kind, she may eventually accept this.

[thankful person]

Zondolit, thank you for your thoughts and advice and the diamond a day subscription made me chuckle, is that a real thing hahaha if so please don’t tell my wife!

I am aware that things don’t have to make sense to the pwbpd for them to entertain an idea. Of course I always get told off for “ruining everything” if I ever point out why something won’t work out. One time quite early on in our relationship, we were in NYC of all places and spent the whole day arguing about dogs. My wife was planning to get a thoroughbred puppy and I wanted to get a rescue dog and my wife was obsessed with the idea that we should bring them home on the same day. And I was obsessively trying to explain why that wouldn’t work and wasn’t a good idea. I realise now it actually wasn’t something my wife thought would happen, just something she wanted to think about and for me to join her in it. A similar example happened over the past couple of days. My wife had bought a slide for the garden and a swimming pool and wanted the slide to go into the pool (pool not built yet, give me a chance ). I knew immediately this would be impossible as the slide has a support bar running along the ground. Well, I knew better this time. I let her enjoy her little idea for a couple of days. And then she figured it out herself that it wouldn’t work. No jadeing necessary. In the past we would have had a massive row over it.

I have always been strict over my need to work. But the boundaries have become blurred since baby 3 arrived and I’ve taken more time off than I would have liked. But it was about putting the children’s needs first because if my wife is going have a bad day and screech at them then I’d rather be there. I’ve told her what’s happening with work next week.

Despite us having two upcoming holidays booked plus having had our bathroom done, my wife still laments wanting to go away for extended periods of time this year (as a family). I don’t join her on her fantasies about money. Before I know it she’d be booking more stuff. Anyway I actually don’t dream about having loads of money. Just about having a simple life.

[Notwendy]

One thing I learned with my BPD mother is that she perceives suggestions as invalidating and telling her that her ideas won't work would be seen as criticisms. This can prompt a mean response in return. Once I planned a get together for her and at the last minute she stated she didn't want to attend. I replied that people would be disappointed. She somehow heard it as "you don't know that" to which she said she knew that and then called me stupid in return.

So now, unless something has serious consequences- like harm or financially, I don't make comments- let her figure it out. If she doesn't go to the get together ( she eventually did)- well then she'd find out from others that they were disappointed. If someone wants to be in two places at the same time, let them try.

With money- the only consequence that has made my mother think about it is when she's spent it all. She was stressed about it until she sold her house. We'd hoped she had learned to be more careful but as soon as the payment was in her bank account, she started spending a lot. I think this is an emotional issue for her- using money to meet her emotional needs and so thinks more about the immediate than to consider long term when she makes these decisions.

[thankful person]

I try not to interfere with any of my wife’s plans, even when they don’t make sense… because it gets taken out and blamed on me. She handles such things much better if she realises it herself, like with the slide idea. I think she would have been very angry if I crushed her dream. However, she has arranged an appointment to occur during the time her sister is visiting next week. And I haven’t said anything because it’s easier not to interfere. I don’t know if this is the right thing but it’s generally the way I do things now.