P diagnosing kids as ASD

[maxsterling]

Hello again.  It's been a few months, but things have been going a little better.  W has been pretty much the same unless she takes benzos, but she has gone out and gotten a job.  On my end, I have been much better with boundaries especially against abuse and negativity.  W pushes back against the boundaries, but they have given me more confidence and a bit of happiness.

The latest issue has to do with our 6-year old twins recently being diagnosed Autism Spectrum.  Ever since they were born, W has thought they needed this service or that service or this or that behavior was not normal.   We had them evaluated for ASD around age 3, and the P at the time saw no evidence for this.  We have been having issues with D6 not wanting to go #2 on the toilet.  Basically, she holds it all the time and has an encopresis issue and winds up soiling her underpants multiple times per day.  W took her to a P, and the P did an ASD test on both kids, and came back with an ASD diagnosis.

The psychologist used accepted criteria in her diagnosis, and another of our kids' T agrees with the diagnosis.  Based upon the definition of "autism" that I understood 20+ years ago - I doubt any teacher or non- clinical person interacting with my kids would notice anything different at all.  I'm used to autistic kids being slow or very literal with language, difficulties with make-believe, hyper focused, unable to adapt to changes in routines, or having problems with social interaction.  My kids have *some* issues with changes in routine, but I don't think it is much worse than other kids.  My daughter likes things in certain orders, but it does not cause her much distress if they aren't.  They do well in school, get along with other kids, and for the most part function the same as other kids their age.  Their imaginative play is extraordinary, understand very complex emotional situations (they are laser-focused on Ws moods and facial expressions and certainly understand when she is in a bad mood).  They are also pretty diverse as far as interests (for 6 year olds)

The only exception is my 6-year old daughter's issues with going #2 and constipates herself and does not like the feel of toilet paper and wants to use wet wipes.  S6 had similar issues, but in the past few months completely got over that.  Based upon that, my wife took the kids to the psychologist, and came out with an ASD diagnosis.  The Psychologist remarked how this was not a bad thing because now the school district is required to accommodate and our insurance company is now required to cover certain therapies 100%.  So I do think government mandates for insurance and schools may play a role here.

I'm not sure how to feel about this.  I'm not saying the diagnosis is incorrect, nor is it necessarily a bad thing if it helps the kids get services they may need.  I do worry that if the issues are something else (such as PTSD or emerging PDs) that having the ASD diagnosis will automatically steer future teachers and Ts in the wrong direction.  I'm okay with an ASD diagnosis if they truly are on the spectrum - I just worry that the "spectrum" is either too broad or the diagnosis is motivated by other things.

Has anyone else dealt with this? 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hey maxsterling, I was wondering how you guys were doing -- thanks for the update.

I've asked myself similar questions about SD15. She finally got an IEP in 7th grade, I believe (possibly end of 6th grade), for some executive function issues. She has not been diagnosed with autism or, as far as I know, even started an assessment for it, but believes she has it. I could go either way. She's similar to your kids in that she did very well with imaginative play when younger, had age-appropriate friendships in terms of closeness and duration (some long lasting, some short, some close, some not), seemed to get along with people well, had different extracurricular interests and stuck with one for ~3 years and others just for a season. Not really any red flags there.

Emotionally she tended/tends to "disconnect" when stressed or anxious, and she has told me verbatim before (when reflecting on a friendship) that she "ignores toxicity because she wants everyone to be happy". She seems to discuss emotions fine when she is at baseline -- "then what did you think, how was it for you when she did XYZ" but clams up when overwhelmed. Again, she's 15, so it's hard to say how much of that is just teen behavior.

The part that is red-flaggy for me is that her emotional checking out started young -- maybe 5 or so. It was very noticeable one night when Mom and Stepdad enlisted SD17 (then 7) to say some horrible things to DH -- in our living room. SD15 (then 5) was in the living room too... chasing a balloon in a circle. Totally disconnected from the emotional intensity. I get why she did it, I get why she does it, and my suspicion is that that's not because she's autistic... it's because that's how she's learned to cope with an unrelentingly toxic negative emotional soup.

During her IEP assessment, which unfortunately included all parents and stepparents together on a Zoom call, one assessor did ask if there were any other reasons that SD15 may be showing these traits/challenges. Mom and Stepdad did not offer anything, and neither did DH or I -- there was no way that I could say "you know, she's been exposed to alienating messages about her dad from her mom for years, whaddya think?" I do wish that IEP meetings didn't try to include both sets of parents at once.

I don't mind that SD15 gets some accommodations -- she has a real issue with possible dysgraphia, and handwriting assignments is a nonstarter. So she gets to type stuff or do speech-to-text, and that works well. It's the attention/focus stuff where I'm with you -- not entirely convinced it's ASD, even though ASD, from what I've heard, can show up differently in girls.

I wonder if there's any way you could ask one of the professionals "hey, just to make sure we're addressing the right stuff and not spending time where it's not helpful, can we do an assessment to rule out PTSD? I'd hate for that to be in play and not attended to. Would be great to see the assessment come back negative so we're sure we're focusing our energy where it counts". IDK what kinds of assessments you'd need to ask for to "rule stuff out", but if there's a professional who's been involved who you feel comfortable emailing, you could start there.

If the kids are 6 now, were they in 1st grade last school year, or will they be this coming school year? I'd assume any elementary school would have a school counselor. Maybe reach out to that person via email?

It's tricky stuff when one parent is not likely to fully cooperate.

[GaGrl]

My son was diagnosed as severely ADHD at age 5. I wish he had had an assessment for possible autism spectrum then -- even now, struggling with Adult ADHD, he exhibits behaviors that make me think a diagnosis might have been missed.

Our granddaughter ( husband's bio grandaughter) had encropesis problems at ages 4-6. She held bowel movements, suffered from constipation. Background there...H's ex-wife took over the child and made their daughter's life miserable -- threatened to sue for custody of the child, denigrated D's abilities as a mother. GD saw constant conflict between her mother and grandmother. It is said that a child will withhold bowel movements because it is the only thing in their little life that they can control. I saw it -- parents divorced, mother and grandmother in constant conflict -- the child had no rest. It improved when H and I married, they moved in with us, 100 miles away -- physical separation and a conflicts free environment did wonders. It still took about 18 months for the bowel issues to resolve.

[maxsterling]

Kells -

Very interesting.  My kids seem to "tune out" my W's rages directed at me, but later reveal that they were listening and aware of what was going on.  The other day W was carrying on about something, and D6 came in from the other room to tell my W to quit talking and stop.  Very eye opening how aware she was and that she came to my defense.  They also "caretake" her - when they notice she is in a bad mood they shower her with love and make her cards and little gifts.  I wonder if they are learning to sense her bad mood and make the gifts and gestures in the hopes of avoiding it.  I don't think a person with ASD is likely to do that.

W has said for years that she thinks I have ASD and need to be tested.  The first time she said that, I told her I would go to a therapist and discuss that option.  So, in my first session, I told the T that I was considering being tested for ASD.  The T asked why and if there were particular areas in my life where I was struggling.  I told her that it was a suggestion of my W claiming I was difficult to communicate with.  T then asked me if others had ever made that comment, and I replied no.  T then asked me a little about the R/S and said it is strange for W to request this of me.  After hearing my description of the r/s for 10 minutes, she reached to her shelf and pulled out a book called "I hate you, don't heave me."  Yes, she had spotted the BPD in my W after about 15 minutes.

I brought up ASD to a psychiatrist I had, and he also questioned why W would claim this, and said that he has seen me for a year and nothing stood out to him as ASD, and that even if I did have symptoms it makes no difference at my age - it is about managing my life, and since I was generally happy and had friends and took care of myself, that an ASD test would be a waste of money.

I think that Ws claims about me, and about the kids, is a form of projection and black/white thinking.  She has a problem in communicating with me, so in her mind the reason could only be either I have a mental illness that makes communication difficult, or the issue is her.  (The real reasons are because I am setting boundaries against abusive language, or simply have no desire to communicate with her when she is in a negative and hurtful mood - self protection).  Same goes with the kids - they act out - and it is either because the kids have a mental illness, or that she is a bad parent.  No option of 6 year olds behaving like 6 year olds.  So she seeks out a diagnosis for the kids.

Again, I am not saying the diagnosis is wrong, but I do wonder if the test is inherently biased towards a positive diagnosis simply because a parent is wishing the test in the first place.  Parent comes in, says child has behavior issues, requests and pays for ASD test, and P searches for a diagnosis because if P tells parent that kid is normal (implying parent is at fault), the parent then gets upset and thinks P is a quack.  So subconsciously, P then overly searches for signs and symptoms when administering test. 

So my dilemma is this:  Do I go and get an ASD test for myself on Ws insistence, knowing that more than likely it will come back saying I do not have ASD.  If that happens, I expect a dysregulation of epic proportions because then she will be forced to consider herself as the problem.  If comes back that I do have ASD to some degree, will it change W's behavior toward me?  Odds are almost nil of that, and if she did change her behavior toward me as a result, it would make me feel very angry about the previous years.  Or do I set a boundary here and say "No", knowing full well this seems to be a line in the sand for her.  I could agree on conditions, "If I agree and the test comes back that I do not have ASD, I would want you to xyz."  I don't know what I would want for a condition that makes any sense because she already goes to a T and already is diagnosed BPD.  Or I could just enforce a boundary here that I will have no further discussions of my mental health with her if I agree to the test.  It just feels like a no-win game..  The best way out seems to be simply say "no" and put the ball back in her hands.  The reason I am hesitant to simply say "no" is because many folks on here will sometimes place the continuance of their r/s on their partner getting tested for BPD.  Would my W saying the continuance of our R/S depends on me getting an ASD test be the same thing?

[maxsterling]

My son was diagnosed as severely ADHD at age 5. I wish he had had an assessment for possible autism spectrum then -- even now, struggling with Adult ADHD, he exhibits behaviors that make me think a diagnosis might have been missed.

What behaviors are you noticing?

As for the encopresis, I think your example fits pretty well.  I fully believe that is the main issue here - that D6 is withholding because it is something she can control and it gets her attention from mom and dad.  I am much more inclined to believe that over ASD.

[Notwendy]

There are pros and const to consider.  On one hand, the attention to the kids at school is both beneficial and protective for them for any learning delays and behavioral issues. With their situation at home, I think the extra attention at school is a good thing.

ASD is a spectrum. So a child with mild symptoms of ASD and a child with severe ones will both be considered to have ASD according to the school system for the purpose of getting the services that the child may need. The medical/psychological diagnoses may consider the variations between these two. For the school- the category is linked to qualifying for the extra help- but then the school will design an IEP with the specific needs for the child.

What if the psychologist is wrong? The schools re-evaluate. If the student is doing well and doesn't fit the need over time, the services will be stopped. But the child will have gotten any help they may need in school along the way.

What if the diagnosis is correct and you don't ask for services? Then the child has been in school with no help and may have behavior and academic issues.

With school and behavioral issues, leaning to the side of accepting the help is something to consider. If this were a medication decision, that would be different. You would want a clear reason for that. However, if this is about extra academic help, or help with behaviors in school- that can be helpful.


The con is probably that it gives your wife a reason to make the kids "the problem" and not the issues at home. But not accepting help in school isn't going to make your wife change her thinking.

[GaGrl]

What behaviors are you noticing?

As for the encopresis, I think your example fits pretty well.  I fully believe that is the main issue here - that D6 is withholding because it is something she can control and it gets her attention from mom and dad.  I am much more inclined to believe that over ASD.

He does not easily make eye contact, and he has some repetitive physical behaviors -- nervous hands and jiggling a leg. He does not notice or pick up on social cues. He has a genius I.Q. but his interests are few yet deep. He can stand up in front of a group and give a presentation, but he does not connect well with individuals.

All of this could be explained by his personality type MBTI INFP and the degree of Adult ADHD. But I wonder.

[I Am Redeemed]

From the DSM-V:

“The essential features of autism spectrum disorder are persistent impairment in reciprocal social communication and social interaction (Criterion A), and restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities (Criterion B). These symptoms are present from early childhood and limit or impair everyday functioning (Criteria C and D). The stage at which functional impairment becomes obvious will vary according to characteristics of the individual and his or her environment…

Manifestations of the disorder also vary greatly depending on the severity of the autistic condition, developmental level, and chronological age; hence, the term spectrum. Autism spectrum disorder encompasses disorders previously referred to as early infantile autism, childhood autism, Kanner’s autism, high-functioning autism, atypical autism, pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified, childhood disintegrative disorder, and Asperger’s disorder…

The impairments in communication and social interaction specified in Criterion A are pervasive and sustained. Diagnoses are most valid and reliable when based on multiple sources of information, including clinician’s observations, caregiver history, and, when possible, self-report.”

Did this P get any assessments filled out by teachers? I’m assuming not. It also sounds like the P did not get information from both parents.

When my son was diagnosed with ADHD, the T got both my input and his teacher’s by having us fill out an assessment form (called a screening tool) that screened for both ADHD and anxiety.

I would think that the P would want to get information from both caregivers, at least.

The thing with neurodevelopmental disorders is that there can be some overlap in symptoms, and it’s possible to misdiagnosis without a full understanding of the environment and experience of the client.

Does the kids’ T have a full picture of what the kids experience as far as their home environment?

[maxsterling]

I am redeemed - thanks for posting this.

Based upon this criteria, I can't imagine what they P saw in my kids that shows a "persistent impairment in reciprocal social communication and social interaction".  There may be impairments, but they are definitely not persistent or nor explained by other factors (they are either only noticed in certain situations or by certain individuals, and have changed through time).  They do occasionally have repetitive behaviors, but these are not consistent day to day and definitely not restrictive in the sense it gets in the way of doing something else.  Their repetitive behavior may be making up a silly annoying song that they won't stop singing for half an hour.  In my observation, nothing comes close to impairing everyday functioning or having social relationships with other kids or adults.  Any social awkwardness I have seen is probably more related to COVID lockdowns than anything else - because they were not able to socialize normally during the time those skills and relationships are forming.  Being twins, they associate most with each other, but they have no issues playing with other kids or having a desire to play with other kids.  My daughter is a bit more reserved, but part of that may be because she is always with her brother who is more dominant.

The P did not question their teacher, previous teachers, play therapist whom they have been seeing over a year, or me.  Based upon what you posted, a thorough diagnosis should be based upon independent surveys of all caregivers, and in this case it was not.  My wife's stepmom once worked with special needs and autistic kids and seems to disagree with this diagnosis.  None of the kids teachers or school counselors noticed any issues of concern, other than S6's withdrawing and tantrums and possible dyslexia.  The dyslexia concern is definitely valid, and the tantrums may relate to that or may relate to witnessing Ws behavior. 

The P still hasn't sent over her detailed analysis.  I am curious what specifically she noticed. 

[I Am Redeemed]

I’m not a licensed clinician, but I do have a degree where I could pursue a clinical license if I chose to do it. I had to take psychopathology courses in school, so I have both the DSM-V and a textbook that teaches how to use it in diagnostics.

The textbook gives some signs and symptoms to look for that may indicate ASD:

Failure to develop appropriate interpersonal relationships

Lack of interest in other people

Delays in communication skills and language development

Repetition of rituals or self-stimulating behaviors, such as rocking

Self-injurious behaviors, such as head banging or biting

Overreaction to changes in routine or environment

Impairment in both intellectual and cognitive functioning

The deficits in social emotional reciprocity refer to things like failing to respond to interactions in a manner that is consistent with developmental age. Deficits in nonverbal communication may look like inappropriate verbal and nonverbal responses to facilitate communication of own needs and with others. Restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior could be repetitive motor movements, speech, or use of objects, or problems responding to change (insisting on sameness, inflexible to changes in routine). There may be intense, highly ritualistic behaviors, and either over- or under- reacting to sensory input (not being affected by pain, refusing to touch certain textures or wear certain clothing with a certain texture; freaking out over hearing an ambulance siren or flashing lights, or the opposite- being obsessed by the lights).

I hope any of this helps give a better idea of what the signs and symptoms might look like, though it is by no means exhaustive.

There are several standardized instruments (screening or assessment tools) for ASD, but as the DSM-V indicates, the clinician should probably get input from other people in the child’s environment.

[Turkish]

S13 was diagnosed with ASD1 (similar to what they used to term Aspergers) when he was 7 in 2nd grade. I noticed things early on and I used to call him Baby Rainman: hyperfocus on one subject, stacked and organized, liked things "just so." He was good with numbers as well. I explained multiplication to him in kindergarten and he understood it in 5 minutes and then did it. He tended to be a little gullible with friends as well. In him there is no guile. You tell the truth because that's the right thing to do (as opposed to his little sister who lies like a rug when it suits her).

I didn't want to get him evaluated, his mom did. When I read the report in detail, I realized that they based a large part of it on the parent interviews... but 90% my observations! I've worked in failure analysis and quality for 30 years and I couldn't help but he thorough. I was 

We had him later evaluated for an IEP, and he didn't quite qualify though he has been on a 504. It gives him some grace to turn in assignments later if he misses them.

It doesn't impact him that I can see. I know I'm close to him, but I only see it when we go to school functions. The noise and all of the people really get to him and he'll hang his head to deal with it, most recently at his sister's play. I told him it's give him my ipod next time to tune out, but I recently got him a cell phone and his mom got him ear buds so he can listen to Spotify.

His mom also got him ABA therapy, though it was encouraged by my insurance provider. I didn't like it at first and neither did he, but I thought it was OK after a while, even if a waste of money. Over 1.5 years, the co-pays cost me $2k. $20/session/person showing up.  My insurance paid the bulk of it.

Cynically, I think there is an Autism Industrial Complex which has helped given rise to the increase in diagnoses.

Overall, I wouldn't be too concerned about this as I was at first. My son told me, "I'm just a regular kid." Be wary of your wife over-pathologizing this, but at the same time, recognize that your kids might need a little more support from you. The ABA techs noticed that I had already been doing some ABA techniques, like calming him when he stimmed (he no longer does that), and encouraging eye contact.

Also be wary if you connect with the autism support community. Suggesting that parents can cause it is a 3rd rail. In my opinion, parents can make it worse though, especially those with their own issues. And ABA is much hated in some sectors, mostly among adults with ASD, and I don't entirely disagree.

[Notwendy]

Kells -

Very interesting.  My kids seem to "tune out" my W's rages directed at me, but later reveal that they were listening and aware of what was going on.  The other day W was carrying on about something, and D6 came in from the other room to tell my W to quit talking and stop.  Very eye opening how aware she was and that she came to my defense.  They also "caretake" her - when they notice she is in a bad mood they shower her with love and make her cards and little gifts.  I wonder if they are learning to sense her bad mood and make the gifts and gestures in the hopes of avoiding it.  I don't think a person with ASD is likely to do that.

A person with ASD might do that- they can have empathy and awareness of other's emotions- it's a spectrum.

But kids who have a BPD parent do that too. They can become the secondary emotional caretakers to the parent. Kids can also "tune out: as a protective mechanism.

I  understand the concern about possible over diagnosis- a child who is feeling anxiety over their home situation may appear to tune out or have ADD in the classroom, forget homework assignments if things are chaotic at home.

At the ages of your kids, though, the school would address the behaviors and issues- if they need help with math or reading- the label allows them to get it- regardless of the cause of their delay. Your children would have an IEP. The school would meet with you and you would have to approve what help the child gets. Once the child catches up, they reassess and then if they don't need it, it stops. I think the larger concern is if your wife over does the diagnosis.

[maxsterling]

Update:  W told me this morning that she needed to fill out S6's questionnaire for the P - and then questioned how the P could diagnose without the questionnaire.  So apparently the ASD diagnosis came from ONLY observing him for about two hours and from communication with W. 

W and I filled out the questionnaire together, and very obviously she wants to have control over this and her perception of what is going on is very much more negatively slanted than what I would say.  Example:  Question about whether the child eats a variety of things or just focuses on 1-2 things he likes.  W wanted to say he is a picky eater, but from my perception he is a very diverse eater for a 6 year old and tries a wide variety of foods, just does not prefer meat.  Another question was about whether he focuses on 1-2 interests.  W said definitely yes, whereas I would say he has something as his favorite but has no issues finding interests in other things. 

That made me think:  I don't think she understands people that have solitary interests or hobbies that they like to do by themselves.  To her, this is abnormal and a symptom of possible ASD.  I see S6 having an interest and a hobby as a healthy thing; W simply cannot relate because she has no desire or comfort in doing anything independently.  If she is alone, she is on her phone finding some way to connect to someone else.  Rarely does she ever make a decision on her own, even about what to eat.   So to see our son have independent interests looks to her like an obsession and anti-social behavior. 

[I Am Redeemed]

Is there any way you can contact the P and ask for a separate questionnaire to be filled out by you alone, and let your w fill hers out as she wants?

[Turkish]

I second doing 2 questionnaires. What you describe aligns with my experience. They spent more than 2 hours, but not more than 3 play observing and doing an IQ test. I'm blown away that diagnoses rely so heavily on parental observations, but it makes sense... though not accounting for parental bias and possible disorders. My ex did disclose that she was diagnosed with Anxiety and Depression. I disclosed what my mother had (those and BPD).

[Notwendy]

I agree with both of you having your own questionnaire. My BPD mother also made interpretations about my behavior as a child. She tells stories about things I did, such as "the one time I threw up on her carpet on purpose" as a toddler. No toddler does that. If a toddler has a stomach ache, they are going to throw up wherever they are. She also says I "ignored her" as a newborn. I was a baby- babies sleep. So your wife could read into your children's behavior and this can influence the therapist. They do rely on parents and teacher observations- they don't have a lot to go on. What the therapist will see from two questionnaires is different perspectives and so may look into that more.

Being a picky eater, having a tantrum, having a favorite toy or cartoon to watch and wanting a bedtime ritual are things all children do. Kids on the spectrum are also just kids doing what kids do- a difference is the intensity of the focus or the tantrums. Kids can be picky eaters, but a child on the spectrum may be more sensitive to the textures of the foods and have more of a narrow set of food choices.

The school is only obligated to provide services that help the child function the best in the school setting. They aren't "treating autism"- they are concerned about any delays in academic or behavioral skills. For example, if a child qualifies for speech therapy- the reason for that might be anything that might present as a delay, or a stutter, or mispronouncing words. If the child catches up, then that is discontinued. Schools have limited funds and they won't spend these funds on children that don't need them. The school addresses delays in reading and math, for any reason, not one diagnosis. There's also some behavioral management for children on the spectrum if needed.

Understandably- you don't want them wrongly labeled or diagnosed, but I think the larger concern is how your wife will respond to that diagnosis more than what the school will do. School law requires that a child is in the least restrictive setting and for your kids, that's the regular classroom, and they'd provide help for delays in academic skills if there are any but they won't if the kids don't qualify for that.

[I Am Redeemed]

Another option is to get a second opinion. Ask your children's pediatrician about a referral to a developmental pediatrician that specializes in diagnosing autism in children. Where I live, the LeBonheur children's outpatient clinic is the main provider for this kind of service. There may be something similar where you live.

When S7 was 4, we got a referral to have him evaluated for autism. The wait time was 18 months, and by that time, I had him in play therapy with a licensed clinical social worker who diagnosed him with ADHD. When we went to the Developmental Peds clinic, the doctor we got (chief of the department of developmental peds) agreed with the ADHD diagnosis and did not see any signs of autism disorder. S7 does meet some of the criteria, but not enough for a diagnosis. So he has some autistic behaviors, but he does not qualify for ASD.

I agree that the main concern would be how your w will take the diagnosis and run with it. Is she the type to use "parenting special needs children" to prop herself up, get attention, etc.? Almost like Munchausen by proxy, but it's a neurodevelopmental diagnosis instead of a physical illness.

[maxsterling]

Yikes wendy - my W has sometimes claimed the kids threw up intentionally.   Hasn't claimed that in awhile, though. 

I think you are right - my main concern is not with the diagnosis being correct or incorrect, but with how W deals with it.  She has claimed this or that was wrong with the kids from very early on, and I think part of it is for sympathy, the other part is to have an excuse for parenting difficulties.  As I mentioned, the issues she claims are so severe either don't seem severe at all to me, or I simply don't see them when she is not around.  All last year during Kindergarten, W seemed to want the schools to solve a problem for her, but it was not a problem that the school saw or one they thought was too serious.  In fact, she switched their schools a month and a half in because the first school was not doing enough to recognize the "special needs" of our kids. 

I think she welcomes this diagnosis, but now I think she will have unreasonable expectations of the school.  Should the school decide the kids function well enough to not require special services, W is likely to be very upset.  As I think I mentioned before, we had the kids in OT and speech services when they were younger, and all the therapists remarked how our kids barely needed them and didn't recommend continuing.  Based upon what you folks are saying here, the school may fight against an IEP - and I think W now thinks both kids are entitled to one.

[Notwendy]

Max- I think here is where you let the school deal with deciding if the kids qualify for services and let your wife deal with that decision. This decision is not subjective- it's done by measuring the delays and if they meet certain criteria. The schools have limited funding. Your wife might get upset but that won't change them. Let your wife deal with this and let them deal with her. This won't likely be the first time they have dealt with a parent asking for services but it's a cut and dry situation.

The parents have recourses- they can get another independent testing. They can even get a lawyer involved but the school criteria and standard- if they don't qualify, that's the decision.

Here's where you don't step in to protect your wife from the consequences of her behavior. If she gets upset- that's on her to deal with. The school's focus is on the kids, not her.

[maxsterling]

Max- I think here is where you let the school deal with deciding if the kids qualify for services and let your wife deal with that decision. This decision is not subjective- it's done by measuring the delays and if they meet certain criteria. The schools have limited funding. Your wife might get upset but that won't change them. Let your wife deal with this and let them deal with her. This won't likely be the first time they have dealt with a parent asking for services but it's a cut and dry situation.

The parents have recourses- they can get another independent testing. They can even get a lawyer involved but the school criteria and standard- if they don't qualify, that's the decision.

Here's where you don't step in to protect your wife from the consequences of her behavior. If she gets upset- that's on her to deal with. The school's focus is on the kids, not her.

I agree.  W is a teacher - she should know how this works.  She found out yesterday that schools don't automatically have to give an IEP, even with an ASD diagnosis.  I reminded her that the school will provide services they think our children need to stay in step with their class, and if they don't require much they probably will not want to do an IEP.  D6 is way ahead of other children in almost all academic subjects and has no social or behavioral issues that stand in the way.  S6 is ahead of his age level in nearly everything except reading and writing - we suspect dyslexia here and that is an entirely different issue.  He also has a few behavioral issues that I believe come from an emotionally unstable house, but those could be ASD.  I expect he will need help with those issues. 

There is really only one thing with either kid that seems like ASD to me, and that is when my son wants to tell a story to his sister, he stands up and walks in circles as he tells the story.  There is a very clearly ASD person at my office who does the same thing.  The funny thing - this is not anything W or a P even noticed.  It still does not mean ASD - many people like to be in motion as they talk on the phone!