Analyse and close the file.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

The text interaction i had with her BF is spending too much time in my headspace.
It has caused me to really think a lot about triangulation vs. object impermenance.

If we are "out of sight out of mind" when painted black, why then are we also smeared / used as the villain narrative in the triangulation of a new partner?

The amount of personal attacks he had in his texts obviously indicated that I was or at least had been a pretty detailed topic of conversation between the two of them, and he, despite never meeting me, had a totally venemous view of me (not that I care, merely an observation).

So if we become this dusty box stored in the back of their mind, and we are out of sight out of mind like that, more so when they are bathing in limerence, How then do we even become a topic of conversation to be smeared in the first place.

If the "placing of the box in the closet" is to aliveate feelings like shame and anger, why whould a BPD, pull the box out of the closet, get mad at its contents again, just to tell a new person how awful the contents of said box is?

Worth mentioning she definitley did this with me in the beggining of our relationship, and always had a burning hatred of my ex wife.

Wondering what you all had for experiences in this regard.
I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it.

"I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it." - This specific thought I think is a more healthy perspective to have and take away. I believe if you follow that mind set it will help you heal and truly have a sense of peace in time.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[SinisterComplex]

The text interaction i had with her BF is spending too much time in my headspace.
It has caused me to really think a lot about triangulation vs. object impermenance.

If we are "out of sight out of mind" when painted black, why then are we also smeared / used as the villain narrative in the triangulation of a new partner?

The amount of personal attacks he had in his texts obviously indicated that I was or at least had been a pretty detailed topic of conversation between the two of them, and he, despite never meeting me, had a totally venemous view of me (not that I care, merely an observation).

So if we become this dusty box stored in the back of their mind, and we are out of sight out of mind like that, more so when they are bathing in limerence, How then do we even become a topic of conversation to be smeared in the first place.

If the "placing of the box in the closet" is to aliveate feelings like shame and anger, why whould a BPD, pull the box out of the closet, get mad at its contents again, just to tell a new person how awful the contents of said box is?

Worth mentioning she definitley did this with me in the beggining of our relationship, and always had a burning hatred of my ex wife.

Wondering what you all had for experiences in this regard.
I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it.

"I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it." - This specific thought I think is a more healthy perspective to have and take away. I believe if you follow that mind set it will help you heal and truly have a sense of peace in time.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[once removed]

It has caused me to really think a lot about triangulation vs. object impermenance.
...
I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late, as opposed to her specific flavor of it.

  be careful with psychology terms if you want to understand whats happening here. they can make things more confusing. this doesnt appear to be mental illness at play, but good old fashioned drama.  

The amount of personal attacks he had in his texts obviously indicated that I was or at least had been a pretty detailed topic of conversation between the two of them, and he, despite never meeting me, had a totally venemous view of me (not that I care, merely an observation).

you have several data points that might explain this.

remember that you were the guy approaching her for a while. he saw interactions/texts between the two of you that took place right before the two of them became an item.

you know he was jealous about it. a reasonable person might be. he might also be a jealous guy. he is toward you, we dont know if he is in general. but it probably didnt look good to him.

put yourself in her shoes in that position. what do you do? you might explain it away. you might downplay the person youd been talking to, to calm them down and reassure them. you certainly wouldnt respond by singing their praises.

well, in his mind, that lets her off the hook, but to him, youre still a guy "chasing after his girl".

it could be more than that, of course. the two of you had just had a bad ending. she may, like lots of people unfortunately do, vent about it to him, just like you are doing about her to us here in this thread.

its also possible that she likes his jealousy. it might make her feel reassured or safe in the relationship. as difficult as i found my exs jealousy, i found it comforting, too.

So if we become this dusty box stored in the back of their mind

if object permanence were relevant to this, ask yourself how she remembered that you exist when you were physically apart.

The text interaction i had with her BF is spending too much time in my headspace.

is the connection, on some level, preferable to none?

[OKrunch]

Oh Pook, triangulation 101, I'm not confused as to the triangulation behavior, just the counter indication between triangulation and object impermanence confuses me.

I know that she bad mouths the previous guy to the current for a few reasons.
It establishes her victim narrative, creates an "enemy" for her and whomever to be unified against, and gives the guy someone to worry about and hate. All in all a manipulation multi-tool.

Yes, she did it with her daughters dad when we first got together, and she did the same with my ex wife. Again with the first replacement when we got back together.
One of the last times we had a decent conversation back in Sept, she asked about my ex wife by saying, "So, how's the c**t? She still being an idiot per usual?"
The triangulation is plain as day.

[OKrunch]

be careful with psychology terms if you want to understand whats happening here. they can make things more confusing. this doesnt appear to be mental illness at play, but good old fashioned drama.  

Drama born of a need for drama, which to my mind, is disordered behavior, born of mental illness.

its also possible that she likes his jealousy. it might make her feel reassured or safe in the relationship. as difficult as i found my exs jealousy, i found it comforting, too.
Anyone "Liking" their partners jealousy is, quite "ill" behavior, IMO.

if object permanence were relevant to this, ask yourself how she remembered that you exist when you were physically apart.

The last time she asked to come over and hang out (Mid July) she had told me she had just left what was our Go-to restraunt, after having what was our go to meal. Classic physical reminders of things pushed to the back of mind.

is the connection, on some level, preferable to none?

Im going to give that a fresh and firm HELL NO.
I don't want any contact with her, let alone her trained dog of a BF.

[Pook075]

It establishes her victim narrative, creates an "enemy" for her and whomever to be unified against, and gives the guy someone to worry about and hate. All in all a manipulation multi-tool.

That's exactly right- it's not about you at all.  It's about her narrative to remain in a victim mentality to hook the new guy even deeper.

Think about it this way- if she woke up tomorrow and forgot that you even existed, do you think she'd stop being a victim?  Or would she just pick another ex boyfriend to fill her new narrative with?

This is not a "you thing" my friend, it's a BPD thing.

[once removed]

I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD in general as of late
...
Drama born of a need for drama, which to my mind, is disordered behavior, born of mental illness.

if you want to better understand bpd, mental illness, yourself, other people (all good goals in recovery), or your current circumstances, then its important to understand that drama, insecurity, immaturity; these things can make for a very difficult, and hurtful person, but they dont rise to the level of mental illness, and looking at it through that lens will tend to unnecessarily complicate things.

Complicating Factors  When we encounter high conflict or destructive relationship behaviors it is important for us to know that the problems can be caused by a broad range of things that look a lot a like:

    immaturity,
    short term mental illness (e.g., depression),
    substance induced illness (e.g., alcoholism),
    a mood disorder (e.g., bipolar),
    an anxiety disorder (e.g., PTSD),
    a personality disorder (e.g., BPD, NPD, 8 others),
    a neurodevelopmental disorder (e.g., ADHD, Aspergers), or
    any combination of the above (i.e., co-morbidity).

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

you dont need to pathologize this to understand it. you just have to try to set aside your feelings for a moment.

this vulgar ape

If there's one thing I hate, it's a vulgar, stupid, toxic masculinity machismo jerk, and he is that in spades.

this insecure, angry, offensive prick

I can't believe how completely childish the string of text I just got was, it reeked of insecurity, anger and triangulation.

I am laughing my butt off.

 I am from Northeast US, and my Ex-Step-Father-In-Law was a bigfoot hunter. The guy was and is a walking joke.

She doesn't deserve this dedication, she doesn't deserve my love, or any rentspace in my head.

I wish I had never met her.

The woman I love vs the monster who killed her, its almost impossible to realize this is the same person.

I think part of the temptation IS drama, which I ultimately don't want.

is there any difference between what you are doing, with us, and what (we assume) she is doing with the new guy? does any of it sound like mental illness, or two people wounded from a dysfunctional relationship, that are still grappling with their wounds?

Anyone "Liking" their partners jealousy is, quite "ill" behavior, IMO.

i didnt say she was getting her jollies from it  

if there is something attractive or safe about being idealized, then can you see how, for an insecure or jealous person, a relationship with someone who is possessive, or insecure, might feel safe?

that sort of thing is everywhere. i didnt "like" my exes jealousy. it was exhausting. it was intrusive! god i wished it would have gone away. but it was comforting, on some level. i thought she needed me more than i needed her. for a lot of my relationship history, it felt the opposite. to feel like i had the power for once was like a false sense of security. and it kicked my ass when that facade shattered. the lesson i took away, and so many people do, could have been to find someone even "safer". the thing is, its not like i was consciously aware of all this at the time, and there but for the grace of god and the support i received, i started to. seeking relationships based on our own neediness is a very easy trap to fall into. shes still stuck in that trap. you both are.

my point here is that if you look at the context, set aside the loaded feelings, it makes sense. you dont need to pathologize it in order to understand it, or to navigate it. youre not a "box stored in her mind". youre an ex boyfriend from a dysfunctional relationship shes still wounded from, and shes an ex girlfriend from a dysfunctional relationship youre still wounded from. its complicated enough already  

[OKrunch]

Thank you to all 3 of you, these are all solid responses and I want to take some time to re-read and really digest them.

[OKrunch]

Once,

While you make some good points about some possible cause and effect situations here, and they are quite valid, It also sems like you are trying to downplay or even call into question her mental illness, which is also a major contributing factor here.
She is diagnosed, and this isnt "Drama", sure it CAUSES drama, but the drama is born of inability to control words, emotions and other behaviors that are CAUSED by the fact that she is disordered.

It kind of felt like you were trying to minimize things, and that is incorrect and inconsiderate.

[once removed]

I find myself trying to get a better understanding of BPD
...
It kind of felt like you were trying to minimize things

im trying to simplify things. i know it feels anything but simple when youre in it.

a mentally ill persons actions and thoughts are not all mental illness. bpd helps us look at personality traits. dont let that cause you to lose perspective of the three competing human natures at play. bpd is one (significant) part of all of that, but its only part.

She is diagnosed, and this isnt "Drama", sure it CAUSES drama, but the drama is born of inability to control words, emotions and other behaviors that are CAUSED by the fact that she is disordered.

drama, whether it involves a mentally ill person or not, requires more than one person to perpetuate. thats why using psychology in a way that positions ourselves as good guys, and the people we are in conflict with as monsters (validate ourselves) only serves to obscure the real issues and makes it far harder to navigate, or understand whats happening. remember, we (us, but also the people we are in conflict with) see and experience these things through the hurt (or anger, or annoyance, or whatever) we feel.

"drama", by the way, is not a word used to disparage you or minimize what youre experiencing eg "oh thats so dramatic", but as a broad term for more or less every day conflict. stuff youre likely to encounter again.

I have attachment issues, and I am addicted to validation from others.

youre in good company. this is a statement that is almost universally true (one, the other, or both, to lesser or greater degrees) for those that are recovering from a relationship with someone with bpd.

i can to this day recall, at a visceral level, how it felt to learn about bpd (never mind discovering that there was an entire support group out there!). there was immeasurable value in learning that hey, this is a thing, there are people out there that have been affected by it, and i may be a basket case, but im not going crazy. i felt validated in that. and i was. it explained a lot of things that were confusing, or painful for me; like what emotional dysregulation can look like, and the destruction it can cause in the process. how a person can  see and treat me in polar opposites, the greatest guy in the world, and the scum of the earth. all good takeaways. helpful.

i also felt validated when people told me that i dodged a bullet. when they told me that there was nothing i could have done to prevent this from happening. when they told me that i was better off, and she was the one that lost out. when they told me shed come crawling back. when i had attention from other women. when i realized she was checking my social media. when they would make fun of the guy she jumped in a relationship with. when they (and i) called him "my inferior clone". when i read websites that told me that she would only get worse and this will happen in all of her relationships. all things that made me feel a lot better.

the funny thing about that is that i needed more and more of it to stave off that pain, and no matter how much i got, it never seemed to be enough to make it true enough for me to believe it, because after about a year of it, i wasnt healed; i was still on my crutches. sure, i wasnt in anywhere near the pain i was that i arrived. but a look back at my posts from then, compared to when i got here, doesnt paint any noticeably different a picture. i was very far from healing from my wounds.

we all bring our ways of coping with these breakups. for the most part, theyre old ways, that didnt serve us during the relationship, and arent going to serve us anymore. ive had the privilege of witnessing thousands of recovery processes here during and since mine. overwhelmingly, the ones that recover, and thrive, learn, in the process, to let go of those coping mechanisms and grow to replace them.

[how do we calm our egos, guys?)

validation calms the ego, but it can also make it weaker, less resilient, and dependent upon it.

replace the coping mechanisms. kick away the crutches.

[Pook075]

ive had the privilege of witnessing thousands of recovery processes here during and since mine. overwhelmingly, the ones that recover, and thrive, learn, in the process, to let go of those coping mechanisms and grow to replace them.

That's the thing though- if you're looking for ways to cope, you're not looking for ways to solve the problem.

For instance, if your car doesn't start...you can get a ride to work, or call in sick, or rent a car, grab an Uber, etc.  There's many ways to get past the problem.  Yet the next day, the problem is still there...and will continue to be there...until you fix what's actually broken.

In this example, maybe it seems like the car is the problem.  Because duh, it is actually broken.  But it's not the car's fault, only you can choose to fix the car or trade it in or take a more permanent action.  The "fault" is 100% yours no matter how you look at it.

While my wife does have BPD (aka, the problem), that does not make how I live my life today her fault.  It's mine and mine alone to move past the pain and pick myself up.  Just like in the car example, I have the power to "get by" (Uber rides, asking friends for a ride, etc) or actually "heal and move on" (get a new car...or realize I don't need a car at all).

In other words, coping mechanisms don't fix anything...they just delay progress and often bring traumas of their own. 

Don't cope other than in the short-term while coming up with a game-plan. It's a complete waste of time and energy.  Instead, identify the problem and actually fix it.

[SinisterComplex]

Locked thread due to reaching post limit. Splitting off into a new thread which you can find here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357803.0