Need support for my recent break up

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I recently got out of a relationship with my girlfriend of coming up to a year who struggles from childhood neglect BPD and need some help to move forward after this has happened.

She and i were very close and lives revolved around each other, she started to act spiteful and would take stresses from her days out on me until i got to a point where i snapped and told her it was not acceptable anymore, this was all during a build up to a holiday that we had planned, i always made sure that she had me as a support system when she felt over whelmed but over time started to act more and more bitter and wouldn't come to me for help. We went away on holiday and everything was good with minimal hiccups, as soon as we got home the week following, everything started to deteriorate. She got invited out with a group of work friends to go clubbing, knowing that it made me uncomfortable and made a point to tell me she doesnt care about how i feel she will always do whatever she wants after i made it known i didnt like the idea. This resulted in me making her choose between clubbing and me which she decided to choose clubbing and we broke up.

The following 4 weeks i was trying to fix things as we both made a rash decision. We spoke daily and she would say how much she cared about me while seeking attention from other boys and going to their houses. This has ultimatly ended in her getting involved with one of the boys from her work who she is now seeing in place of me. She has made a point to tell me that she is not in a relationship with him but has told me they are sleeping together. None of her actions match up with what she tells me. She tells me how much she loves and cares for me while treating me so poorly, but then she tells me she is done with us and doesnt want me around anymore while refusing to let me go with random reminicent texts about us/the past.

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

Any advice for what i should do?

[Bxrrows]

I recently got out of a relationship with my girlfriend of coming up to a year who struggles from childhood neglect BPD and need some help to move forward after this has happened.

She and i were very close and lives revolved around each other, she started to act spiteful and would take stresses from her days out on me until i got to a point where i snapped and told her it was not acceptable anymore, this was all during a build up to a holiday that we had planned, i always made sure that she had me as a support system when she felt over whelmed but over time started to act more and more bitter and wouldn't come to me for help. We went away on holiday and everything was good with minimal hiccups, as soon as we got home the week following, everything started to deteriorate. She got invited out with a group of work friends to go clubbing, knowing that it made me uncomfortable and made a point to tell me she doesnt care about how i feel she will always do whatever she wants after i made it known i didnt like the idea. This resulted in me making her choose between clubbing and me which she decided to choose clubbing and we broke up.

The following 4 weeks i was trying to fix things as we both made a rash decision. We spoke daily and she would say how much she cared about me while seeking attention from other boys and going to their houses. This has ultimatly ended in her getting involved with one of the boys from her work who she is now seeing in place of me. She has made a point to tell me that she is not in a relationship with him but has told me they are sleeping together. None of her actions match up with what she tells me. She tells me how much she loves and cares for me while treating me so poorly, but then she tells me she is done with us and doesnt want me around anymore while refusing to let me go with random reminicent texts about us/the past.

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

Any advice for what i should do?

[kells76]

Hi Bxrrows and welcome -- glad you found us 

The end of a relationship with a pwBPD (person with BPD) can be confusing and feel really murky and unstable, sometimes more so than the end of a "normal" relationship.

I'm definitely seeing the mixed messages from her in what you've posted. That can only add to the confusion -- she didn't choose you, but then she spoke with you daily, but then she was seeing other people, but they weren't real relationships, but... but... but...

Not easy stuff; and so painful.

What you brought up here sounds important:

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

-The urge to help a partner is a big deal. Hypothetically, if you could set aside that feeling of "I have to help her -- she needs my help", what would you think about the relationship?

-Am I reading correctly that she is the one not initiating contact with you, and you are still reaching out and contacting her occasionally? Did I get that right?

-When you communicated to her that you're worth more than how she's treating you, what would you say you wanted her to know? What I mean is -- when you told her that, was it a way of telling her that you were done with the relationship? Was it to hopefully get her to treat you better? Or was it something else?

Fill us in -- we're here to listen.

-kells76

[Bxrrows]

Hi Kells,

Thanks for taking the time to help give me some clarity.

We broke up the day that she decided that going clubbing was what she wanted to do, after she got home that night she messaged me to tell me she was safe and that she loved me. In my eyes she was trying to do whatever she wanted regardless of how i feel and then after the come down happened she decided that she wanted to get in touch with me.

Since that day we spoke everyday about things and new issues came to light that developed since the day of the break up. For example she would post stories i was blocked from to gain attention and sympathy from other boys for that validation she was no longer getting from myself. She also had lied to me about her location forgetting we had life360 and was at a guys house who she told me was a 40 year old man who was like a father figure to her which i found very sketchy and even untrue (I am 24M and she is 22F for reference).

Developing from there i no longer became a priority, she would tell me no matter what happens she is always there for me but whenever i had a rough night and called, she was always busy with her new friends or had an excuse to not answer. I could go on and on with the small deatils about how she started to distance herself more and more but she ultimatly made a point to tell me how much she cares about me even though her actions did not match.

Everything from the club to the basic disrespect i could have forgiven if she put the effort in, but fast forward 3 weeks of back and forth with not much movement on either side, i called her just to tell her i loved her and was met with no answer, the very next day she sends me a message telling me shes sorry im having a rough time and she cares about me a lot but i need to move on and heal, also that shes is sort of seeing someone else now and its not fair on me. Only finding out that night he stayed at her place and slept with her so i guess that was too much for her conscience to bear and ended up telling me about her seeing someone else in the most brief way possible to negate the gravity of how close they are.

Since then i gave her hell over the phone about it and we ended up having no contact for 5 days until 2 nights ago she ended up calling me when she got up in the night to tell me that she felt bad about everything and i was not the most understanding as i gave her an earful about how low/neglected everything has made me feel.

What i think about the relationship is that she litterally gave me everything, i would want nothing more then for us to get back together and try again but i know she would not have the energy nor feelings i imagine to make all her wrongs a right and i feel like i have too much self respect to let someone treat me this poorly and let them come back into my life with open arms. She also told me that she is no longer in love with me.

I guess my goal with the whole "im worth more" angle was for her to realise that of course im worth more then this and she should buck her ideas up and grovel to win me back. The only issue is that she has this new guy around that seems to be filling the void of happiness that i left and she doesnt really have much reason to go through that whole groveling process if she has a new supply of attention.

Im really stuck in the sense that i love and care about her more then anything and i can tell she is showing glimpses of being remorseful for whats happened but none of her actions towards me match any of that caring side that i know is in there.

Any more questions you have about specifics i am more then happy to share to give a better picture of the situation.

Bxrrows

[Bxrrows]

Fill us in -- we're here to listen.

-kells76

Update -  just noticed today my number has been unblocked which i did not anticipate

[AlbertaCowboy]

I recently got out of a relationship with my girlfriend of coming up to a year who struggles from childhood neglect BPD and need some help to move forward after this has happened.

She and i were very close and lives revolved around each other, she started to act spiteful and would take stresses from her days out on me until i got to a point where i snapped and told her it was not acceptable anymore, this was all during a build up to a holiday that we had planned, i always made sure that she had me as a support system when she felt over whelmed but over time started to act more and more bitter and wouldn't come to me for help. We went away on holiday and everything was good with minimal hiccups, as soon as we got home the week following, everything started to deteriorate. She got invited out with a group of work friends to go clubbing, knowing that it made me uncomfortable and made a point to tell me she doesnt care about how i feel she will always do whatever she wants after i made it known i didnt like the idea. This resulted in me making her choose between clubbing and me which she decided to choose clubbing and we broke up.

The following 4 weeks i was trying to fix things as we both made a rash decision. We spoke daily and she would say how much she cared about me while seeking attention from other boys and going to their houses. This has ultimatly ended in her getting involved with one of the boys from her work who she is now seeing in place of me. She has made a point to tell me that she is not in a relationship with him but has told me they are sleeping together. None of her actions match up with what she tells me. She tells me how much she loves and cares for me while treating me so poorly, but then she tells me she is done with us and doesnt want me around anymore while refusing to let me go with random reminicent texts about us/the past.

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

Any advice for what i should do?

I would move on, if you are having problems with your own mental health.  It just seems like an unhealthy and toxic relationship. You got to care for yourself, and she has to respect you.  If she does not, and continues to put you second in her life, I would go my own way, and eventually you will find a woman who respects you more.

[Bxrrows]

I would move on, if you are having problems with your own mental health.  It just seems like an unhealthy and toxic relationship. You got to care for yourself, and she has to respect you.  If she does not, and continues to put you second in her life, I would go my own way, and eventually you will find a woman who respects you more.

Thats how im moving forward with things at the moment. After any break up things are tough but no other relationship has felt this heavy after it ended, i guess thats just the intencity of BPD relationships. My main issue is moving forward and accepting everything which is why i sought advice from this forum in the first place.

I know i have done everything in my power to try and find a way back for us both but she seems preoccupied with her new life and the excitement from her new lover. I keep having a glimpse of hope that she will reach back out to me but i imagine she does not have the capcity to understand how her actions have effected me. For her it feels out of sight out of mind and i need to find a way to be at peace and find a way forward.

[kells76]

Hi Bxrrows;

Something I sometimes read here on the boards is members having a desire that "if s/he would reach out and apologize and promise it wouldn't happen again and would get help, then I'd definitely get back in the relationship with him/her."

Is part of you in that space? Or are you more in a "no matter what she says/does, I've decided I'm done" space?

There's no right or wrong answer, and, immediately after a breakup, it makes sense that maybe there's "one foot on each side".

I'm asking to get a better feel for the dynamic, because a position of "no matter what she says/does, I'm done, and I need to grieve work through it" is different from "if she would just _____________, then I would _______________", just in terms of feedback and advice.

...

Was this your first major serious relationship? Hers?

[Bxrrows]

Hi Bxrrows;

Something I sometimes read here on the boards is members having a desire that "if s/he would reach out and apologize and promise it wouldn't happen again and would get help, then I'd definitely get back in the relationship with him/her."

Is part of you in that space? Or are you more in a "no matter what she says/does, I've decided I'm done" space?

There's no right or wrong answer, and, immediately after a breakup, it makes sense that maybe there's "one foot on each side".

I'm asking to get a better feel for the dynamic, because a position of "no matter what she says/does, I'm done, and I need to grieve work through it" is different from "if she would just _____________, then I would _______________", just in terms of feedback and advice.

...

Was this your first major serious relationship? Hers?

I would be open to trying again but feel like its really out of my hands.

Until Monday this week i have done everything in my power to try and fix things, since we broke up last month.

Regardless of our original issues, the biggest factor for me now is that she has a new guy in place of me. I feel that I would like to try things again but i would be asking for more then she would be willing to do for me especially considering the original reason we had issues from my POV was down to lack of respect/effort. I would need her to put all her eggs back into my basket and block this new boy, along with the other boys she was attention seeking from, while also making an active effort to work on controlling her BPD with me by talking or seeking medical help.

This is my 2nd relationship that would have been our year together next month. I previously had an abusive relationship over 3 years with a girl who also had lots of problems but in a very different way (im a fixer so i generally attract broken people who i feel like i can help). She was previously in a 4 year on and off unstable relationship with someone who had his own mental situation as well. I am 2nd boyfriend but the only one that has no previous history of mental illness excluding some mild social anxiety.

Another nugget of information is that she owes me 1k from our holiday last month, so over the next 2-3 months we will have some form of contact about that subject in which i was also wondering how to handle that. Right now we are in no contact and im in a place where any contact will be initiated by her so i  was curious on how to play things when we do speak.

So in summary as a TLDR, im open to trying again if she agrees to certain boundries but right now i am focusing on myself and distractions until i hear something from her. 2nd relationship for us each, both coming from pervious abusive relationships.

Any other questions do let me know

[SaltyDawg]

Another nugget of information is that she owes me 1k from our holiday last month, so over the next 2-3 months we will have some form of contact about that subject in which i was also wondering how to handle that. Right now we are in no contact and im in a place where any contact will be initiated by her so i  was curious on how to play things when we do speak.

Bxrrows,

   You indicated she is with another boy.  I think her motivations are clear.

   When I left an uBPD/uNPD-exgf, she owed me quite a bit more than '1k'.  At the time I could afford the 'loss', in order not to deal with her again, as I wanted the no contact, as she tried to cheat on me, not once, but twice.  So, in essence, I 'cut my losses and ran' and chalked up the experience as a learning experience.

   I got out of the fire, into the frying pan, only to get burned 2 decades later inside of that frying pan when it warmed up.  It doesn't get any better staying around to fix the situation.

   My advice, if you can afford it, get an individual therapist to help you sort out your feelings.  If you cannot, I made a series of recommendations that I have paraphrased here...

   Welcome to BPD Family.  Since you asked for advice...

Advice: 

#1 - Do self-care.  You need to 'fill your cup' first, before you can help others.  It is kind of like the announcements to put your own oxygen mask on first when flying before helping the person next to you with theirs.  You need to have enough energy for both yourself and any you have left over can go for caring for him.


#2 - Don't do this alone.  Get help, professional therapists cost money, it is well worth the copay if you have insurance.  If you don't have the ability to pay, I have a list of many free/low cost resources.

If you are looking for BPD specific help, you have this website, BPD family, you can post and ask questions 24/7 here - in my humble opinion this is by far the best resource.  NEABPD has also been mentioned, they have a long wait list, but they have a lot of videos.  I am a strong believer in self-help resources - like youtube, books, etc.

If you are looking for weekly Zoom meetings specific to BPD, sponsored (but not attended) by Randi Kreger, author of "Stop Walking on Eggshells" series of books at https://groups.io/g/MovingForward - look towards the bottom of that page for the list of Zoom meetings, some are general, others are specific.

If you think you are co-dependent, according to Google 90% of us are, CoDA can be helpful too (CoDA.org), it is not BPD specific.

NAMI has a group is for parents and/or partners (about 3/4 parents) of children with mental health disorders including BPD and other severe mental health issues which share a lot of the same challenges of care for a child who refuses your care, or they don't have the resources to care for them.  The group I attend is 'in person' which I find is more authentic than a Zoom meeting or posting messages.


#3 Self-help books:  These two are the best starter books:

Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul T. T. Mason MS & Randi Kreger (3rd Edition) - the 3rd edition as it has an excellent assessment tool in it.

Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life by Margalis Fjelstad - this one has some excellent tools in managing a pwBPD


#4 Set strong boundaries on not accepting bad behaviours, especially rages - the "Stop Caretaking" book has some excellent tools for this.  Also, https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0 is a series of workshops to help you out as well.


#5 - Since he is 'self-diagnosed' strongly persuade him to go to his own individual therapy to get this addressed.  DBT is considered the 'gold standard'; however, any therapy is generally better than no therapy.  Ideally it should be IOP - Intensive OutPatient, where he does one weekly session with an individual therapist, and one group session with other BPD patients (a word of caution, if he has never been in a mental facility, he can pick up worse behaviors by comparing his behaviors to theirs).


#6  Ask questions, get strategies from myself and others who have had similar experiences to your own, figure out what works, and use that.


Take care with self-care.

SD

Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

Bxrrows,

   You indicated she is with another boy.  I think her motivations are clear.

   When I left an uBPD/uNPD-exgf, she owed me quite a bit more than '1k'.  At the time I could afford the 'loss', in order not to deal with her again, as I wanted the no contact, as she tried to cheat on me, not once, but twice.  So, in essence, I 'cut my losses and ran' and chalked up the experience as a learning experience.

   I got out of the fire, into the frying pan, only to get burned 2 decades later inside of that frying pan when it warmed up.  It doesn't get any better staying around to fix the situation.

   My advice, if you can afford it, get an individual therapist to help you sort out your feelings.  If you cannot, I made a series of recommendations that I have paraphrased here...

Take care.

SD

Thank you for your reply and insight. While therapy at the moment seems a bit financially far for me, the books i will be looking into.

Since finding this website I have found my peace with whats happened in terms of the self sabotage and her abilty to move on so quickly, while it still hurts its nice being able to accept that im not to blame for why things broke down. I understand now that the new guy in her life is nothing more then a way for her to feel some self worth as she needs that constant affirmation to feel complete within herself. She is able to compartmentalise her negative feelings and push them down. I just hope someday the mist will disapear in her mind so she will see things for how they are and will understand how hard shes messed up by losing me. But again their mind is an enigma so its more wishful thinking over if that would ever happen.

I have a simular outlook to you as i have now completed my first week of no contact, i know now that she is no longer my problem and i cannot help someone who doesn't want help.

I can afford the lose as i value my mental health more then the money itself, my personal issue around the money is that she made a point that she wants to pay it all back and her family have also told me about setting up a payment plan for the start of next year. My thought now is how do i play the inevitable text/call about the money?....Am i blunt and dismissive?.... Do i let her lead the conversation and be open to talking about things if she mentions anything? Any advice on the best course of action to take?

Bxrrows

[kells76]

Hi Bxrrows,

I can afford the lose as i value my mental health more then the money itself, my personal issue around the money is that she made a point that she wants to pay it all back and her family have also told me about setting up a payment plan for the start of next year. My thought now is how do i play the inevitable text/call about the money?....Am i blunt and dismissive?.... Do i let her lead the conversation and be open to talking about things if she mentions anything? Any advice on the best course of action to take?

First thought on the money is to assume she'll pay back zero (despite what anyone says), and treat any part of repayment as icing on the cake.

In terms of a course of action, you're in the driver's seat here, so how it goes depends on what you want and who you want to be.

Am i blunt and dismissive?

From my perspective, an answer to that question would depend on who you want to be, and how you want to act, and how to do that with integrity.

If you want to look back on this part of your life and say "no matter what, I was the kind of person who treated someone with a serious mental illness with courtesy and respect", then that will probably guide your approach.

If by "blunt and dismissive" you're meaning more "firm and neutral", then that could be in line with acting with integrity, courtesy, and respect. You might also be interested in learning more about the "BIFF" communication approach -- it stands for Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm, and it's a framework for best practices for communicating (phone calls, texts, emails, etc) with a pwBPD. My H and I have found it really helpful for communicating with his kids' mom (who has many BPD type traits).

BIFF helps me be the person I want to be, and not stoop to her level by trying to "teach her a lesson", be rude, prove my points, or do anything that distracts focus away from respectful, problem-solving communication. When she emails us stuff like "I'll be out of town and need you to watch the kids, but the kids told me they don't want to spend time with you", it's tempting to prove her wrong, point out her rudeness, be really hurt/take it personally, etc. BIFF helps us live out our values instead of getting drawn into conflict/"who's right/who's wrong".

When you mention this:

Do i let her lead the conversation and be open to talking about things if she mentions anything?

what "things" are you thinking she may mention -- i.e., money things, relationship things...?

Again, this is something where you're in the driver's seat in terms of how much -- if at all -- you interact with any topic she brings up. She can bring up anything at all, and you have the power to decide ahead of time if you're open to that conversation.

Would you want to talk about the relationship, if you've already decided to be done?

Lots of questions! I'll pause there to hear back from you.

[SaltyDawg]

I can afford the lose as i value my mental health more then the money itself, my personal issue around the money is that she made a point that she wants to pay it all back and her family have also told me about setting up a payment plan for the start of next year. My thought now is how do i play the inevitable text/call about the money?....Am i blunt and dismissive?.... Do i let her lead the conversation and be open to talking about things if she mentions anything? Any advice on the best course of action to take?

Bxrrows,

I agree with Kells on this, don't expect repayment.  Any money you get back will be 'gravy' or 'icing' as Kells puts it.  If she does engage you, she might use it as a 'lure' to get you back if and when she pays you back as a 'recycle' attempt - how you handle that is up to you - follow your 'gut' on this.

If you don't want to have a relationship, keep your communication B.I.F.F. - Brief, Informational, Factual & Friendly.  An example communication could be something like "Thank you for reaching out to me to replay the 1k.  You can pay me back by making a deposit in my Venmo/PayPal at [something that doesn't have specific account information]."  Avoid open ended statements/questions as that will invite additional small talk like "I hope you are doing well." or "How are you doing?"

If you want to rekindle the relationship (not advisable), move this to the bettering board.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

Hi Bxrrows,

First thought on the money is to assume she'll pay back zero (despite what anyone says), and treat any part of repayment as icing on the cake.

In terms of a course of action, you're in the driver's seat here, so how it goes depends on what you want and who you want to be.

From my perspective, an answer to that question would depend on who you want to be, and how you want to act, and how to do that with integrity.

If you want to look back on this part of your life and say "no matter what, I was the kind of person who treated someone with a serious mental illness with courtesy and respect", then that will probably guide your approach.

If by "blunt and dismissive" you're meaning more "firm and neutral", then that could be in line with acting with integrity, courtesy, and respect. You might also be interested in learning more about the "BIFF" communication approach -- it stands for Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm, and it's a framework for best practices for communicating (phone calls, texts, emails, etc) with a pwBPD. My H and I have found it really helpful for communicating with his kids' mom (who has many BPD type traits).

BIFF helps me be the person I want to be, and not stoop to her level by trying to "teach her a lesson", be rude, prove my points, or do anything that distracts focus away from respectful, problem-solving communication. When she emails us stuff like "I'll be out of town and need you to watch the kids, but the kids told me they don't want to spend time with you", it's tempting to prove her wrong, point out her rudeness, be really hurt/take it personally, etc. BIFF helps us live out our values instead of getting drawn into conflict/"who's right/who's wrong".

When you mention this:

what "things" are you thinking she may mention -- i.e., money things, relationship things...?

Again, this is something where you're in the driver's seat in terms of how much -- if at all -- you interact with any topic she brings up. She can bring up anything at all, and you have the power to decide ahead of time if you're open to that conversation.

Would you want to talk about the relationship, if you've already decided to be done?

Lots of questions! I'll pause there to hear back from you.

The money i kind of mentally parted ways with some time ago, the only reason it is even a subject to bring up is the last time we spoke she mentioned it and also kept making a point about wanting to repay it no matter what. In the same thought she sold me the world and completely switched up on me so her word doesn't exactly hold much weight anymore. If i get it cool, if not then its whatever.

I think the 'BIIF' model might help with the next conversation that will inevitably unfold, so i appreciate you both bringing this to my attention. I have a tendancy to come across aggressivly and speak quickly at times and would like to try and keep any communication calm.

The reason i had so many questions regarding our next chat is mainly down to all of our contact over the last month has been a bitter back and forth that i mainly put down to being in her 'black thinking' view of me. I am trying to better myself form this situation and dont want to lower myself to her level, I almost dont want her to get any more satisfaction out of knowing how hurt i am with things and was curious for a second opinion on approaches.

Whatever the conversation goes like, i feel like i will be speaking purely business and if she wants to check in or speak about anything regarding us then i wouldn't be completly closed off to the idea. Every now and again whenever we would speak that child like side of her that almost comes across remorseful comes out but im not sure if thats just another part of her attempts at manipulation. Again this is all speculative but i want to be prepared for communication and be open to speaking on things should she lead the conversation that way.

Bxrrows

[kells76]

I think the 'BIIF' model might help with the next conversation that will inevitably unfold, so i appreciate you both bringing this to my attention. I have a tendancy to come across aggressivly and speak quickly at times and would like to try and keep any communication calm.

That's good that you're aware of how you can come across, whether you intend it or not.

pwBPD can be pretty sensitive to tone and body language and feeling "shut down" or "talked over". Actually, I can't think of anyone who enjoys being talked over  even when the other person doesn't mean to. Sounds like this conversation will be a good growth opportunity for you -- can you stay in an aware headspace, give yourself time to pause and think through what you want to say, monitor how you're doing emotionally, and take responsibility for your part without trying to overfunction for her.

You have a goal in mind (it'd be nice to be repaid) and so now you have a structured approach to meeting your goal -- keep the discussion brief, keep it focused on the information and logistics, and stay friendly (or, if that isn't workable, polite and courteous -- I can't always do "friendly" with my H's kids' mom).

Do you plan to meet in person?

...

Whatever the conversation goes like, i feel like i will be speaking purely business and if she wants to check in or speak about anything regarding us then i wouldn't be completly closed off to the idea. Every now and again whenever we would speak that child like side of her that almost comes across remorseful comes out but im not sure if thats just another part of her attempts at manipulation. Again this is all speculative but i want to be prepared for communication and be open to speaking on things should she lead the conversation that way.

It can help to game-plan what your goals might be for that potential conversation. For example, some people want to try to get closure. Other people hope for an apology. some people want to find out if the ex is seeing someone else, or hear "proof" of something they've wondered about. Or, they may want to "end on good terms" on both sides, or see about going back to "just friends".

Generally speaking, looking to an ex partner for closure or healing after a breakup often leaves us unsatisfied -- even after a "broadly normal" breakup. A pwBPD can be even less emotionally able to provide any kind of closure, healing, or "good terms".

What would your goals be?

[Bxrrows]

That's good that you're aware of how you can come across, whether you intend it or not.

pwBPD can be pretty sensitive to tone and body language and feeling "shut down" or "talked over". Actually, I can't think of anyone who enjoys being talked over  even when the other person doesn't mean to. Sounds like this conversation will be a good growth opportunity for you -- can you stay in an aware headspace, give yourself time to pause and think through what you want to say, monitor how you're doing emotionally, and take responsibility for your part without trying to overfunction for her.

You have a goal in mind (it'd be nice to be repaid) and so now you have a structured approach to meeting your goal -- keep the discussion brief, keep it focused on the information and logistics, and stay friendly (or, if that isn't workable, polite and courteous -- I can't always do "friendly" with my H's kids' mom).

Do you plan to meet in person?

...

It can help to game-plan what your goals might be for that potential conversation. For example, some people want to try to get closure. Other people hope for an apology. some people want to find out if the ex is seeing someone else, or hear "proof" of something they've wondered about. Or, they may want to "end on good terms" on both sides, or see about going back to "just friends".

Generally speaking, looking to an ex partner for closure or healing after a breakup often leaves us unsatisfied -- even after a "broadly normal" breakup. A pwBPD can be even less emotionally able to provide any kind of closure, healing, or "good terms".

What would your goals be?

She has honestly been completly useless when it comes to closure, any form of quesion i ask she always told me she didn't know or felt numb with the situation which has given me one of the hardest times coming to terms with the fact this is all over. I spent a month sending paragraphs, letters, hours of phone calls trying to get any sort of information out of her and the best I would get out of anything was her agreeing with reasons I came up with. I feel betrayed knowing I spent all that time and effort trying to repair things that would have been so easily fixable, instead she spent her time seeking out a work colleague to replace me with.

I have a lot of anger surrounding all of this as our main problems from my POV stemmed from not feeling like she loved me anymore, being treated like a punching bag for her stresses and going out of her way to push my boundries on things i made known early doors I wasn't comfortable with her doing (clubbing and guy friends). I chalked a lot of this behavior up to her illness but refuse to let the blame fall completly on her traumas. I have always held a belief that you cant control how you feel but you have some form of control in how you act and she made me aware she knew she wasnt feeling good mentally but doubled down on all toxic behaviours until she found comfort with another man and cut me lose.

However, as angry as this has all made me, im not the sort of person that wants to let that feeling consume me and honestly pity her for ruining things with one of the only people who has ever accepted her for her as a person along with her illness as a package deal.

I want her to feel like she can talk to me about more then just the money and have a feeling she might try and probe me for some extra information about what is going on with me (just a hunch). Last time we spoke was last monday over the phone and she mentioned she started her new job and would be paying me back in a couple installments when the money started coming in.

During the call she asked questions about me and mentioned that she felt bad about everything but the majority of the conversation was surrounding me questioning her on this new guy she is seeing which made it sour until she back tracked stating she "was only calling about the money and nothing else" and rage hung up. This was obviously not her calling for that reason alone as the call came at 1am which showed it was from emotion.

Following that phone call i sent her a message which in short said "you reaching out and mentioning you felt bad is a possitive step, i need no contact rn to heal but if you needed to call me when you felt like that then i am not closed off to the idea", she liked that message and i have not heard anything since. Since then i have been focusing on myself and the only information i had on her was an instagram story she posted that my friend stupidly told me about where she was at a beer pong bar, presumably with the new guy shes seeing.

I guess whever the next contact will be, a phone call or text, its going to happen at a random time and i just want to be ready for wheverit does I feel like i have said everything i need to say and anything about our relationship would only be a rehash. Thing is that due to how hurt i feel i almost want her to understand how horrid her actions have been and for her to feel as PLEASE READty as i am while she been living up her new life care free...but of course there is no way of getting that message across that wont result in a negative interaction.

Its a tough one but i think i will let her lead the conversation and i will be purely reactionary on things. If she wants to talk about anything other then money it will be down to her to guide us to that point.

Bxrrows

[once removed]

She has honestly been completly useless when it comes to closure, any form of question i ask she always told me she didn't know or felt numb with the situation which has given me one of the hardest times coming to terms with the fact this is all over.

closure in the ideal form that we all would like is usually unrealistic.

a person who has terminated a relationship with us just is not in a place to offer it. they may be, rightly or wrongly, fixated on a flaw of ours. or they may have been fixated on a very real flaw, but now theyre focused on the more superficial, or theyre focused on the real deal breaker(s). or theyve altogether forgotten the reasons.

they may be, rightly or wrongly, processing the breakup and their reasoning.

they may be in a very different place than us when it comes to grieving the relationship. generally speaking, you have one person who has, to some extent, grieved the relationship, and the other person who is blindsided, not at all on the same page as to what was wrong.

there are thousands of songs written on the subject. very rarely is there a part two where everything is sorted out.

Thing is that due to how hurt i feel i almost want her to understand how horrid her actions have been and for her to feel as PLEASE READty as i am while she been living up her new life care free...but of course there is no way of getting that message across that wont result in a negative interaction.

i dont think anyone loves a breakup. in my experience, they are the most emotionally taxing thing ive been through.

one thing i do like about breakups is that the conflict is over. all those things weve been fighting about, a breakup is one sort of ultimate resolution.

you have your feelings from the breakup. theyre raw. theyre real. theyre profound.

but they arent going to be resolved by continuing the same conflict from the old relationship. you want to make her realize these things. that was a product of the old relationship. youve already done that. you have to ask yourself at the end of the day to what extent you want to resolve them now that the relationship is over, and to what extent its possible now that it is.

still, you want to make her realize these things. i did too.

i realized that just because the relationship was over, that didnt mean i had nothing to say. i still had a need to be heard. so i said what i needed to say, whether it was here, to friends, or on paper. i would encourage you to do any of that. let it out. but privately; not in a way that youre still arguing with your ex. manage this urge, with support, in a way that doesnt involve her.

[Bxrrows]

closure in the ideal form that we all would like is usually unrealistic.

a person who has terminated a relationship with us just is not in a place to offer it. they may be, rightly or wrongly, fixated on a flaw of ours. or they may have been fixated on a very real flaw, but now theyre focused on the more superficial, or theyre focused on the real deal breaker(s). or theyve altogether forgotten the reasons.

they may be, rightly or wrongly, processing the breakup and their reasoning.

they may be in a very different place than us when it comes to grieving the relationship. generally speaking, you have one person who has, to some extent, grieved the relationship, and the other person who is blindsided, not at all on the same page as to what was wrong.

there are thousands of songs written on the subject. very rarely is there a part two where everything is sorted out.

i dont think anyone loves a breakup. in my experience, they are the most emotionally taxing thing ive been through.

one thing i do like about breakups is that the conflict is over. all those things weve been fighting about, a breakup is one sort of ultimate resolution.

you have your feelings from the breakup. theyre raw. theyre real. theyre profound.

but they arent going to be resolved by continuing the same conflict from the old relationship. you want to make her realize these things. that was a product of the old relationship. youve already done that. you have to ask yourself at the end of the day to what extent you want to resolve them now that the relationship is over, and to what extent its possible now that it is.

still, you want to make her realize these things. i did too.

i realized that just because the relationship was over, that didnt mean i had nothing to say. i still had a need to be heard. so i said what i needed to say, whether it was here, to friends, or on paper. i would encourage you to do any of that. let it out. but privately; not in a way that youre still arguing with your ex. manage this urge, with support, in a way that doesnt involve her.

I agree with all you mentioned.

Since my last post I have taken more time to get my head around everything. While my feelings of anger/sadness are getting less intense over time, I still find myself hoping that shes been able to take time to think about what we had even if its only for moments throughout her day. I understand how much better off i am without her as begging for the bare minimum daily is not what you should need to do with someone who is meant to love you.

As much as it all hurts, I know that I have done everything in my power for us to survive and i can walk away comfortable knowing that this is no fault of mine, I cant force someone to match my effort.

I am distracting myself with my hobbies and work which has stopped me obsessing over what we had as much. She was a huge part of my life and I will always love the version of her I got to experience, even if shes not there anymore. She can put on a fake face for everyone else and pretend shes okay, but I know that scared little girl that shows herself from time to time is just doing what she needs to survive as she is very unwell. I like to think one day she will be able to come to terms with whats happened over pushing her real emotions down and moving on with the first person who catches her eye......but if that never happens, then im okay with it.

I am curious to see how our next interaction goes as I will just be playing the conversation reactionary to whatever she ends up saying. I will be remaining no contact and will not be breaking that. Cluing myself up on BPD really gave me my own sense of closure and im ready to move forward from this chapter of my life and start putting myself first which i oddly have not done in a very long time.

Bxrrows

[Borderless]

I'm a FIXER myself.  I had a 15 year relationship with a wife that began to get more and more mentally ill after we'd been married about 5 years.  Eventually she was full-blown BPD.

From my experience I will tell you a couple of things that may help. The $1K subject is not about the money for her.   She will NEVER pay it all back, EVER.  BPD folks value money mainly only as a way to control you.  Think of that money as a Thousand Dollar Golden Key she can use to manipulate you at any time she needs n emotional pickup from you.  She will forever keep it in her pocket as a remote to your heart and giving, fixing nature.   Its better to just tell her "Its a gift - I don't want it back."  That takes away all the power from her golden key remote over you. 

My most important advice to you:  Be glad you're young and have time to have a valid relationship in the future.  Learn this important lesson thoroughly.  Avoid BPD folks in the future!  Its not good for you or them. 

[Bxrrows]

I'm a FIXER myself.  I had a 15 year relationship with a wife that began to get more and more mentally ill after we'd been married about 5 years.  Eventually she was full-blown BPD.

From my experience I will tell you a couple of things that may help. The $1K subject is not about the money for her.   She will NEVER pay it all back, EVER.  BPD folks value money mainly only as a way to control you.  Think of that money as a Thousand Dollar Golden Key she can use to manipulate you at any time she needs n emotional pickup from you.  She will forever keep it in her pocket as a remote to your heart and giving, fixing nature.   Its better to just tell her "Its a gift - I don't want it back."  That takes away all the power from her golden key remote over you. 

My most important advice to you:  Be glad you're young and have time to have a valid relationship in the future.  Learn this important lesson thoroughly.  Avoid BPD folks in the future!  Its not good for you or them. 

The fact i only wasted a year on this relationship is one bright light I have found in this whole situation. I feel for you and every other person who has spoken to me about their long term relationships with countless years thrown away due to this illness.

The money, like i mentioned previously, was something I have already parted ways with and if it gets sent over great, if not then im fine with losing it.

I made her block me on everything as I did not have the self control to do it myself and would constantly block/unblock to check up. Any form of contact we have now is entierly down to her so I am taking this opportunity to move forward with my life and have made a promise to myself that I would be very vague with her if we do ever speak again. Plus she has her new victim that she is either seeing or in a relationship with so that will preocupy her for the time being while i work on building myself back up from the car crash this has left me in. We live a medium distance away so there is a slim chance i will ever randomly run into her which also helps with moving on.

As a fixer you may well understand we always seem to attract broken people. At least now i know the extent of the effect this illness specifically has on me and the person holding BPD, i will be making sure that anyone with this illness is someone I activly avoid in future realtionships.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

The fact i only wasted a year on this relationship is one bright light I have found in this whole situation. I feel for you and every other person who has spoken to me about their long term relationships with countless years thrown away due to this illness.

Oh how I envy you, I am in my 2nd relationship, now 24 years together, which was much more subtle than the obvious mess I was in the first one.  My first one was of a similar length to yours; however, my 2nd one was much much more subtle, and insidious*.  I do have an exit strategy; however, since children are involved, I have to endure until my 2nd child can launch out of this situation, my first child is ready to launch soon and has a full set of tools to deal with with this.


The money, like i mentioned previously, was something I have already parted ways with and if it gets sent over great, if not then im fine with losing it.

I am glad that you realize this - this is what I did with my first borderline relationship.


I made her block me on everything as I did not have the self control to do it myself and would constantly block/unblock to check up. Any form of contact we have now is entierly down to her so I am taking this opportunity to move forward with my life and have made a promise to myself that I would be very vague with her if we do ever speak again. Plus she has her new victim that she is either seeing or in a relationship with so that will preocupy her for the time being while i work on building myself back up from the car crash this has left me in. We live a medium distance away so there is a slim chance i will ever randomly run into her which also helps with moving on.

My first one, was a long distance relationship, so no worries about crossing paths again.  While I did not block (the technology wasn't available back then) I did monitor from time to time - and the sh!t show that followed after I left would be fit for a psychological thriller movie.  If you ever do speak again, keep it BIFF (brief, informational, factual, and friendly), and definitely be dismissive too. 


As a fixer you may well understand we always seem to attract broken people. At least now i know the extent of the effect this illness specifically has on me and the person holding BPD, i will be making sure that anyone with this illness is someone I activly avoid in future realtionships.

I am glad that you understand this; I didn't, and I am paying for it right now, and have done so for the past two decades - it was only last year that I figured this out with the help of an individual therapist.  This illness can be very well hidden, or it can be painfully obvious.  Learn of all the red flags, use caution, and most importantly follow your 'gut' - (*)if it seems 'too good to be true' - IT IS!

I thought I was catching a lucky break after my previous BPD/NPD relationship, only to find myself in an OCPD/BPD relationship afterward.  She seemed so normal, valedictorean, graduated college with honors, had a successful job/career.  I went from a failure to someone who seemingly had it all together, and I thought I had hit the jackpot - she did too, except she would turn out to be much more sinister.

If you find the perfect girl in the future, who is intelligent, and appears to have her sh!t together, look for more subtle clues, the best one I have identified is excessive FOO (family of origin) estrangement - that shows multi-generational conflict and an unwillingness to compromise.

2nd clue, is that they are way too eager to jump in the sack with you (first date for both BPD relationships) - in today's dating culture it is the 3rd to 5th date, and I think this is too fast, I would suggest waiting at least a month if not longer, but not more than a year.  Be a friend first, then a lover.  Same thing with moving in with each other, wait at least a year, getting married, two years, and even then you still can be had - I speak from personal experience on this.

If you want, I can look up more, this site has several list of 'red flags'  red-flag to look out for.  After working with my individual therapist, I now have working CRAYDAR (CRAzY raDAR) and can literally pick them out from up to a mile away.  Most of the women who are now hitting on me are a dozen years younger, most of them are very physically attractive (I'm not) and are a freaky mismatch for me.  While it does feel good to be pursued even with the wedding band on my finger - I will engage enough to figure them out (to fine tune my CRAYDAR), and then disengage.  Never give out contact information unless you want a stalker.

It sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders.  I wish you the best of luck as you move on, learn from this experience.  Most importantly do realize even when you find a woman that 'ticks all of the boxes' - someone who is 'too good to be true' according to your 'gut feeling' can also be a potential nightmare - take it slow, and even then you can be fooled, I know I was, and it is really embarrassing for me - I used to have shame around this; however, I have shifted to knowing that this can happen and I am spreading the word, it might happen to you too, just be on the lookout for it.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[kells76]

Hi Bxrrows;

It makes sense that you are ready to close the book on this relationship, and you want healthier relationships moving forward. That's a good mindset to have.

The end of a BPD relationship is an invitation to dig deep into ourselves. Not everyone takes it, but the door is there if you are interested. It can dig up some hard stuff.

These parts of your post stood out to me as potential areas to do some digging and some work, in order to have healthier relationships in the future:

I made her block me on everything as I did not have the self control to do it myself and would constantly block/unblock to check up. Any form of contact we have now is entierly down to her so I am taking this opportunity to move forward with my life and have made a promise to myself that I would be very vague with her if we do ever speak again. Plus she has her new victim that she is either seeing or in a relationship with so that will preocupy her for the time being while i work on building myself back up from the car crash this has left me in. We live a medium distance away so there is a slim chance i will ever randomly run into her which also helps with moving on.

Hard question: that's giving her your power. Where is that lack of self control coming from? Was there something addictive about checking up on her? Was there anyone else in your life besides her who could've been your "accountability partner" about that urge?

Trust me, I get it about checking up on exes. I once befriended a serious ex's new girlfriend, without telling her I was her BF's old GF -- I wanted that "in" in his life.

As a fixer you may well understand we always seem to attract broken people. At least now i know the extent of the effect this illness specifically has on me and the person holding BPD, i will be making sure that anyone with this illness is someone I activly avoid in future realtionships.

Someone much wiser than me about detaching once made this comment: imagine we're in the grocery store and we're looking at fruit. We pride ourselves on being really, really good about not picking bad fruit. We have a huge list of "bad fruit qualities": it's mushy, it has bruises, it smells bad, it's too brown, etc. We are doing awesome at pointing at various bananas, apples, etc, and saying "bad fruit"!

But how do we pick good fruit? The ability to not pick bad fruit is not the same as building the ability to identify and select good fruit.

Something about our "picker" is broken if we have chosen to be in a relationship with a pwBPD. It's not that they threw themselves at us and seduced us, and the only issue was we didn't have a list of "bad fruit" qualities.

We were attracted to something disordered, AND we hadn't cultivated the ability to pick good fruit.

It took me a good decade to see that someone I once dated (we met in an IOP, that "should have" warned me) had many traits and behaviors of BPD.

The questions for me at that time should have been:

-What is it about me and my past that makes a BPD relationship dynamic feel so familiar to me, and
-How can I develop the ability to choose healthier partners?

...

Lots of food for thought -- you can decide what you're up for, no pressure.

Good to see you posting here;

kells76

[Bxrrows]

These parts of your post stood out to me as potential areas to do some digging and some work, in order to have healthier relationships in the future:

Hard question: that's giving her your power. Where is that lack of self control coming from? Was there something addictive about checking up on her? Was there anyone else in your life besides her who could've been your "accountability partner" about that urge?

kells76

I think my main issue is the fact that i am natrually a fixer within relationships and after a year of spending 3/4 days a week with her, I got used to being that person who would be ready to help her through her mood changes. She would often be laughing with me about a silly joke or situation we found funny together, then suddenly burst into tears a few mins later and say she didnt feel good. I think with that dynamic in place of knowing at any time her mood could flip and being made to feel like i was the solution by her always saying "i need my Bxrrows" gave me some feeling of responsibilty over making sure she was always okay.

With that all in mind I could see whenever we would meet or speak over the phone, that scared girl who needed me would show herself breifly before the nasty split personality came back to take control of her again. Knowing my girl was still inside of her deep down made me feel like there would be a time where she would see sense and reach out to reconsile all the wrong that had happened.

So the past of being the fixer for her mood swings, seeing glimpses of that scared girl and just wanting her to be okay regardless of where that left us kept me checking her socials and looking when she was last active on whatsapp. Knowing that if she didnt go on whatsapp in the evening would mean the new guy shes seeing would be with her and the fact i had access to that information and couldnt stop myself from blocking and unblocking resulted in me needing her to block me so I simply had no way to check. I know its giving up power that she will use to fuel her but i honestly had no other choice if i wanted to move forward as for her i had no self control.

Just as another segment of information on the latest development on the situation since my last post. Currently I am blocked on all socials that we would typically comunicate on. However I am not blocked on twitter (x) and would from time to time open her page just to look at her profile pic and leave. On her twitter she only follows meme pages I showed her and myself, but I have noticed she started following a guy she used to work with who we previously had issues with.

For some context this same guy used to offer her lifts home that were completly out of his way and message her late at night, I told her that he was clearly into her and it made me uncomfrotable. After some back and forth, I told her I wanted her to block him because the late night chats did not stop after a couple of weeks of this going on. Eventually she did end up blocking him because it made me uncomfortable and she made it known that she understood why I felt the way I did so we moved forward.

Fast forward to our break up, hes unblocked, added back onto socials and knowing now that hes on her twitter that she rarely ever uses, the signs all point towards him as the new guy she is seeing (i also know that the guy she is seeing was someone she used to work with which makes it make even more sense). This is all just a deduction of course and you might as me 'Bxrrows why do you even care?'. The point for me is that i understood she would have a subconcious back up in mind for when we did split as her cycle as always been like that with every ex, but its made me rethink a big portion of our relationship and was the situation a few months back cheating that I didnt even know about?

Its funny to me as well because she made a point numerous times to tell me how disgusting she found him and would always saw "eww hs is gross" when i would wind her up with jokes about him, following when she blocked him originally.

Also a few days after we split, I asked her where she was and she told me she was home watching tv, she forgot I still had her location and i saw she went straight from work to a random house, so I called her and eventually she picked up. When confronted on the what I knew she had no answer and told me via text after hanging up that she was visiting a friend of hers who was a "40 year old man friend" (remember she is 22) who she sought advice from like a father figure. At the time I really had no reason to distrust her as to my knowledge she never lied to me and it fit some of the strange friendships with older people i knew she had already. Having my theory now about starting to see this guy from her work, im sure she was at his place instead of this 40 year old man as it was in a simular loaction to where she told me he lived in a previous conversation.

Hoping not to come across too arogarrogant by saying this but that guy from her work is 5'6, balding at 22, worse looking (im not exactly a diamond but hes like a 3/10) and makes less then half of my annual salary so to me knowing she has downgraded in every department gives me something to smile about.

Coming to this realisation now made me rethink a lot of things that happened leading up to us ending, if im right then she lied to me for a very long time about a lot of stuff and even though it changes nothing now, im having a lot of thoughts about things i previously never second guessed.

If my theory about him being the guy is correct then the only logical reason for her wanting to be around him right now is for that possitive attention she gets to feed her narcassism as she hasnt been getting that from me becasue of our situation. Knowing it will eventually implode at some point from her inabilty to keep people around and that the foundation of whatever they have is built on the ruins of our relationship makes me happy. Im not a vindictive person at all but knowing how hard i fought for us get through our rough patch ended how it did, she will have no chance making anything last with anyone, let alone her rebound from work.

Bxrrows

[Bxrrows]

The fact i only wasted a year on this relationship is one bright light I have found in this whole situation. I feel for you and every other person who has spoken to me about their long term relationships with countless years thrown away due to this illness.

Oh how I envy you, I am in my 2nd relationship, now 24 years together, which was much more subtle than the obvious mess I was in the first one.  My first one was of a similar length to yours; however, my 2nd one was much much more subtle, and insidious*.  I do have an exit strategy; however, since children are involved, I have to endure until my 2nd child can launch out of this situation, my first child is ready to launch soon and has a full set of tools to deal with with this.

I cannot express how much I have learnt from this forum along with reading other peoples stories on how they are in a simular situations. Speaking with people about my situation who have never been in a BPD relationship really feels quite empty when seeking advice so the work you all do here really is valuable.

I hope you manage to work through your situation as well my friend. 20+ years of these people in your life is not even something I would ever want to live through, my one year was enough haha. Hopefully whatever happens you find peace and your children are kept safe throughout.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

I cannot express how much I have learnt from this forum along with reading other peoples stories on how they are in a simular situations. Speaking with people about my situation who have never been in a BPD relationship really feels quite empty when seeking advice so the work you all do here really is valuable.

I hope you manage to work through your situation as well my friend. 20+ years of these people in your life is not even something I would ever want to live through, my one year was enough haha. Hopefully whatever happens you find peace and your children are kept safe throughout.

Bxrrows

Bxrrows,

   Thank you for your kind words. 

   The primary reason why I'm still in this relationship is my wife had already telegraphed she would get really mean with her false narratives (starting with false allegations of child abuse, which I have had our couple's therapist already debunk as she is a former CPS (child protective services) LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) - while my wife's feelings were real when I was disciplining my then 1st grader in front of teachers and the principle at a school program (all of whom are mandated reporters, and didn't report since there was nothing to report) to lead him firmly out of the cafeteria by the hand under my 1st grader's protests to stop the interruption of the program - the couple's therapist did not see any issue and said my wife's allegation would have been 'unfounded' if CPS evaluated it.  Fortunately 3 out of the 4 allegations she has accused me of were in front of mandated reporters where there were around embarrassing behaviors, so she was all stressed out which put her emotions feeling into wild state of over-exaggeration that feels real to her. 

   She has also made other false accusations about me towards her as well, such as DV, which is untrue, and I am recording many of our heated discussions should they come to light, I have irrefutable evidence to the contrary.  So it is a huge F, in the Fear, Obligation, and Guilt that I am remaining in the relationship as I do not want to ruin any more of our children's childhood anymore that it already has been done, and continue to repair it.

   Due to the speed of divorce litigation where I live, I do not want to engage in divorce at the moment as that will most likely result in severe dysregulation directed against our children by my wife (she has shown signs, and I am running interception on this, and setting and enforcing boundaries around this).  Also, my wife has indicated a willingness to work towards bettering the relationship, even though it has stalled at the moment and needs to resume. 

   If she were to escalate other false narratives it would be devastating to our children as well as myself as her impassioned over-exaggerated statements are very believable unless closely evaluated - but then the damage would already be done for months if not years down the road where my name would eventually be cleared.  I am also maneuvering our finances to reduce the financial hit of our co-mingled monies should divorce occur in order to make the playing field a little more level.  It is unfortunate that the 'kangaroo' court system of family law imposes this outcome on men unless it is overabundant-ly clear my wife has a mental illness, which her therapists will not do, even though all of her behaviors and symptoms indicate otherwise.

   At least until my children are out of the house and in college, I can work (within) the system to become a larger positive force in each of their lives (full-time parenting vs 50% or less parenting) and minimize the damage caused by my wife, and help her become aware of this damage (her therapists are instrumental in this).  I am working with my children to have them become more self-sufficient, so if we do separate, they will have some idea what to do instead of 'no-clue'.  My D gets it, my S is still a work in progress.

Trust me you don't want to go through what I have, or others have for decades.  Learn what you can from this.  Make sure you don't find another (more subtle) partner who has issues in the future, like I did.  Keep your eyes open, and follow your 'gut' if something feels 'off' - I didn't, and I am paying for it.  This has been a really hard lesson for me to learn, and if you can learn it too and avoid the mistakes I have made, it is worth it.

Take care with self-care.

SaltyDawg

[Bxrrows]

Bxrrows,

   Thank you for your kind words. 

   The primary reason why I'm still in this relationship is my wife had already telegraphed she would get really mean with her false narratives (starting with false allegations of child abuse, which I have had our couple's therapist already debunk as she is a former CPS (child protective services) LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) - while my wife's feelings were real when I was disciplining my then 1st grader in front of teachers and the principle at a school program (all of whom are mandated reporters, and didn't report since there was nothing to report) to lead him firmly out of the cafeteria by the hand under my 1st grader's protests to stop the interruption of the program - the couple's therapist did not see any issue and said my wife's allegation would have been 'unfounded' if CPS evaluated it.  Fortunately 3 out of the 4 allegations she has accused me of were in front of mandated reporters where there were around embarrassing behaviors, so she was all stressed out which put her emotions feeling into wild state of over-exaggeration that feels real to her. 

   She has also made other false accusations about me towards her as well, such as DV, which is untrue, and I am recording many of our heated discussions should they come to light, I have irrefutable evidence to the contrary.  So it is a huge F, in the Fear, Obligation, and Guilt that I am remaining in the relationship as I do not want to ruin any more of our children's childhood anymore that it already has been done, and continue to repair it.

   Due to the speed of divorce litigation where I live, I do not want to engage in divorce at the moment as that will most likely result in severe dysregulation directed against our children by my wife (she has shown signs, and I am running interception on this, and setting and enforcing boundaries around this).  Also, my wife has indicated a willingness to work towards bettering the relationship, even though it has stalled at the moment and needs to resume. 

   If she were to escalate other false narratives it would be devastating to our children as well as myself as her impassioned over-exaggerated statements are very believable unless closely evaluated - but then the damage would already be done for months if not years down the road where my name would eventually be cleared.  I am also maneuvering our finances to reduce the financial hit of our co-mingled monies should divorce occur in order to make the playing field a little more level.  It is unfortunate that the 'kangaroo' court system of family law imposes this outcome on men unless it is overabundant-ly clear my wife has a mental illness, which her therapists will not do, even though all of her behaviors and symptoms indicate otherwise.

   At least until my children are out of the house and in college, I can work (within) the system to become a larger positive force in each of their lives (full-time parenting vs 50% or less parenting) and minimize the damage caused by my wife, and help her become aware of this damage (her therapists are instrumental in this).  I am working with my children to have them become more self-sufficient, so if we do separate, they will have some idea what to do instead of 'no-clue'.  My D gets it, my S is still a work in progress.

Trust me you don't want to go through what I have, or others have for decades.  Learn what you can from this.  Make sure you don't find another (more subtle) partner who has issues in the future, like I did.  Keep your eyes open, and follow your 'gut' if something feels 'off' - I didn't, and I am paying for it.  This has been a really hard lesson for me to learn, and if you can learn it too and avoid the mistakes I have made, it is worth it.

Take care with self-care.

SaltyDawg

I really hope everything works out in your situation and you are able to move forward in the best way possible for both you an your children. 20+ years is a very long time to have this happen and only having a year under my belt and feeling how I do really puts it into perspective.

I have also noticed today that my pwBPDs mother, who i got on with very well has blocked my number on whatsapp after I sent her a christmas card (not sure if it was a good idea now). This is the 2nd family member of hers who has now blocked me along with her following the break up. Her Mother and Sister both reached out to me after the break up to check in and have since blocked me on socials and phone number. I am sure this is down to my ex creating a narrative about me being obsessed or something as initally following the break up i naturally did everything i could to salvage things before going into NC 3 weeks ago.

I was also wondering if you had any thoughts on my update i posted just before I thanked you. Puting the parts together and figuring out who my ex is now seeing has really pushed me back a few steps in my attempt to move forward.

Any thoughts or advice would be very much apprecaited.

Bxrrows

[once removed]

I have also noticed today that my pwBPDs mother, who i got on with very well has blocked my number on whatsapp after I sent her a christmas card
...
I am sure this is down to my ex creating a narrative about me being obsessed or something

it might be.

unfortunately, relationships like this (you and her family) are usually casualties, in a breakup.

when a breakup happens, everyone is forced to take sides. family and friends will tend to take the side of the person they knew first.

it can hurt, a lot. it can compound the pain of the breakup. you may naturally wonder "what did i do"? and the answer is, whether your ex had anything to do with it or not, these people you care about have chosen the side of their family.

im sorry. in my life, ive lost a lot of important relationships over breakups, or friendships ending, or over conflict with others. when my ex broke up with me, the mutual friends i made through that relationship, were long gone.

I think my main issue is the fact that i am natrually a fixer within relationships

to be clear, a "fixer" is a maladaptive schema.

if you are finding yourself in this position, repeatedly, it would really behoove you to take a hard look at, as you heal, and as you consider what you want to take into future relationships.

Knowing it will eventually implode at some point from her inabilty to keep people around and that the foundation of whatever they have is built on the ruins of our relationship makes me happy.

this is a common way of coping. it is a way that i leaned on hard in the early days of my recovery; my ex left me for someone else, too.

the problem is, it builds the foundation of your recovery on whether they fail or succeed, which is a pretty shaky foundation.

so, what if they dont implode? what if they succeed? would that say anything about you?

presumably, all of your prior exes have moved on to other relationships, and to greater or lesser degrees of success. does that say anything about you as a person? is it a situation where you feel the need to compare yourself?

we all develop coping mechanisms in our early years. often times, we find, in adulthood, that they no longer serve us. sometimes they persist until we cant live with them anymore.

a breakup with a pwbpd (or anyone, really) is a crossroads. on one side of that crossroads, is the baggage of the relationship, its wounds, and the old wounds that have been ripped open. we can keep going on that path, and take those things into the next relationship, and maybe the next, and the next. when you have an abandonment wound like this, it is very easy for it to linger, and that path can seem like the most appealing, or even the only obvious path.

alternatively, we can learn more about ourselves, reinvent ourselves, and come out of this stronger than ever, and go on to thrive.

The end of a BPD relationship is an invitation to dig deep into ourselves. Not everyone takes it, but the door is there if you are interested. It can dig up some hard stuff.

it may be hard, but it can unlock the door to freedom from our suffering if we take it.

[Bxrrows]

it might be.

unfortunately, relationships like this (you and her family) are usually casualties, in a breakup.

when a breakup happens, everyone is forced to take sides. family and friends will tend to take the side of the person they knew first.

it can hurt, a lot. it can compound the pain of the breakup. you may naturally wonder "what did i do"? and the answer is, whether your ex had anything to do with it or not, these people you care about have chosen the side of their family.

I was always very close with her family and they would always pull me a side and thank me for getting her out of the hole she was in when we first met, she was in a cycle wiht her ex that wasn't healthy and would have sporadic partners between their break ups. Its only when we met that that cycle ended up breaking. Them knowing that I understood her phases of switching up and being able to for the most part bring her back to herself, made me hopeful that when she started treating me poorly they would step in and help set her straight. They all held me i such high regard and knowing they knew she was spiraling I really thought they would help me take care of her with me but evidently that never happened.

I never expected them to take my side or choose me ever after the break up. My ex has BPD and her irrational behaviour can somewhat be partly blamed on that, but her family have no excuse when it comes to enabling her and letting her destroy the life she built with me. In hindsight they are the same people who neglected her so much when she was younger which resulted in her BPD condition, so knowing that how could I possibly trust them to help her at all when they are the very people who resulted in her fear of abandonment in the first place.

From how this has all unfolded over the past few weeks. I think she told her family that we broke up and that was it, she must have made out like we have no conversations and it was dead. She must have told them about this new guy 2 weeks after the offical split when in reality they were chatting either before we broke up or the day it happened. Then when I started getting in contact with her family to step in and help her they just saw it as the obsessive ex who wont leave her alone when she has already moved on. So now they got a christmas card they have blocked me for the same reasons i assume.

But in reality from the day we broke up, we spoke every day with long phone calls every night over the next month talking about things. Whenever I would need space she would message to check in and keep me at arms reach until she felt like it was time to completly cut me off.  To me it seemed like we were working on things and getting back on track. So after things started to break down and she was spiralling further and further into someone I did not recognise, that is when i made the choice to contact her family as I knew I couldnt help her alone.

Again this is all a theory I have thought up to give myself some logical answers. Its in her nature to be manipulative, but to villanise me like she has and completly detatch from anything we had while turning her family against me with a fake play of events really shows the type of person she can be when she isnt mirroring me.

As you mentioned it is not a good foundation to move forward on the basis of knowing her relationships might not work out. But to me I have seen first hand how she copes with everything in life and none of it is ever facing reality, its always to find a distraction and forget. She did the same sort of thing when her pet died, she cried that night she lost a rabbit and the next day she went out and brought another one as if nothing happened. The same thing goes for her relationships. She has only ever had one boyfriend officially before me and they were on and off for 4 years and every break up she would have someone lined up to keep her busy. Even though i know shes come a long way since being with me, her actions following our break up follow the same trend she put in place with her ex before me. If she couldn't make us work when everything was so easy and secure, then I highly doubt she will be able to make things work with this new guy who was a snake, waiting for her to be single and the basis of their relationship being build off the ruins/pain she is feeling deep down about us breaking up.

I am 3 weeks no contact and have not heard anything from her yet, I know at some point she will get in touch, if by some miracle its about the money she owes me or some other excuse, im sure this isnt the last of me hearing from her.  I dont wish these feelings I am going through on anyone, I just hope she is able to take some time for herself over these constant distractions as she is only going to leave a path of pain in her wake for anyone she gets involved with.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

I really hope everything works out in your situation and you are able to move forward in the best way possible for both you an your children. 20+ years is a very long time to have this happen and only having a year under my belt and feeling how I do really puts it into perspective.

It is a never ending marathon to deal with a pwBPD.  There are good days, and bad days.  As long as the good days are increasing and the bad days are decreasing, I intend to stay as it will benefit our children.  We are moving forward, backwards too, but as long as the general trend is forward I will continue to work with my wife on improving the situation.


I have also noticed today that my pwBPDs mother, who i got on with very well has blocked my number on whatsapp after I sent her a christmas card (not sure if it was a good idea now). This is the 2nd family member of hers who has now blocked me along with her following the break up. Her Mother and Sister both reached out to me after the break up to check in and have since blocked me on socials and phone number. I am sure this is down to my ex creating a narrative about me being obsessed or something as initally following the break up i naturally did everything i could to salvage things before going into NC 3 weeks ago.

Since it is her mother and her sister, both of them are 'blood' lined to her your ex, so they will support her narrative over yours, so, try not to let it get under your skin with the false narrative that your ex is sharing with them.


I was also wondering if you had any thoughts on my update i posted just before I thanked you. Puting the parts together and figuring out who my ex is now seeing has really pushed me back a few steps in my attempt to move forward.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing you are referring to what you posted here...

The following 4 weeks i was trying to fix things as we both made a rash decision. We spoke daily and she would say how much she cared about me while seeking attention from other boys and going to their houses. This has ultimatly ended in her getting involved with one of the boys from her work who she is now seeing in place of me. She has made a point to tell me that she is not in a relationship with him but has told me they are sleeping together. None of her actions match up with what she tells me. She tells me how much she loves and cares for me while treating me so poorly, but then she tells me she is done with us and doesnt want me around anymore while refusing to let me go with random reminicent texts about us/the past.

Im really struggling to come to terms with the lose of barely being able to recognise the girl i fell in love with as she now feels unrecognisable, but every now and again will have moments where i can see her scared face/tone shine through and it makes me feel like she just needs my help. We are currently as of this post no contact and she has blocked me on everything for "my sake" but she called me last night very late to tell me how she feels bad for whats happeend. Im very confused and made it clear that im worth way more then she has been treating me which she agrees.

Well, you pretty much summed it up - it doesn't make logical sense, a.k.a. 'crazy making'.  What you are seeing is a variation on the fear of abandonment.  They will monkey branch (find a new relationship prior to ending the previous one) as they fear the most that they will be abandoned.  In order to not feel that way, they have to be with someone whether or not it is a healthy.
 They will follow the rules of the new toy.  The new toy is more often than not also defective, and they will follow the new boy toy's rules, and block you on everything.  They will also make up [false] facts, to meet their narrative on why they dumped you [you are supposed to be a bad person - see if you can recall if she said something similar about her previous relationships before you, it is often a pattern that is repeated over and over again, it is the hallmark of the 2nd symptom in addition to the 1st symptom of PBD].

Her calling you, while she is seeing this other boy, is to make sure you will be there if the other boy doesn't work out.  Both you and this boy, are her emotional supply, if one dries up, then there will be another, and if one becomes dull, boring, too much effort, she will find another.  Do you want to be 2nd fiddle to this boy toy and others (you did mention more than one boy)?

Generally speaking a borderline's love starts off very intensely which more often than not includes passionate sex very early into the relationship, moving in together very shortly thereafter, this is called 'love bombing' and is common to most cluster B personalities including BPD.


Any thoughts or advice would be very much apprecaited.

Bxrrows, I have given you my thoughts based on your observations.  What you do with my thoughts is up to you.  However, if I were in your shoes, and there is no mortgage, no children, no shared finances, I would consider myself extremely lucky that I dodged a bullet of a nightmare (that I am still in) and run away, and never look back and chalk it up as a learning experience like I did with my first pwBPD, except, I only learned a partial lesson with the uBPD/uNPD/u+exgf, and was duped again with my uBPD/uOCPDw (the OCPD masked a few of the more troubling symptoms), so I had to figure out what was wrong with me, that's a whole different story, that is related to why crazy is attracted to me.

Keep coming back and asking more questions.

Also, be sure to do self-care whatever that looks like for you.

Take care.

SD

[Bxrrows]

I think my main issue is the fact that i am natrually a fixer within relationships and after a year of spending 3/4 days a week with her, I got used to being that person who would be ready to help her through her mood changes. She would often be laughing with me about a silly joke or situation we found funny together, then suddenly burst into tears a few mins later and say she didnt feel good. I think with that dynamic in place of knowing at any time her mood could flip and being made to feel like i was the solution by her always saying "i need my Bxrrows" gave me some feeling of responsibilty over making sure she was always okay.

With that all in mind I could see whenever we would meet or speak over the phone, that scared girl who needed me would show herself breifly before the nasty split personality came back to take control of her again. Knowing my girl was still inside of her deep down made me feel like there would be a time where she would see sense and reach out to reconsile all the wrong that had happened.

So the past of being the fixer for her mood swings, seeing glimpses of that scared girl and just wanting her to be okay regardless of where that left us kept me checking her socials and looking when she was last active on whatsapp. Knowing that if she didnt go on whatsapp in the evening would mean the new guy shes seeing would be with her and the fact i had access to that information and couldnt stop myself from blocking and unblocking resulted in me needing her to block me so I simply had no way to check. I know its giving up power that she will use to fuel her but i honestly had no other choice if i wanted to move forward as for her i had no self control.

Just as another segment of information on the latest development on the situation since my last post. Currently I am blocked on all socials that we would typically comunicate on. However I am not blocked on twitter (x) and would from time to time open her page just to look at her profile pic and leave. On her twitter she only follows meme pages I showed her and myself, but I have noticed she started following a guy she used to work with who we previously had issues with.

For some context this same guy used to offer her lifts home that were completly out of his way and message her late at night, I told her that he was clearly into her and it made me uncomfrotable. After some back and forth, I told her I wanted her to block him because the late night chats did not stop after a couple of weeks of this going on. Eventually she did end up blocking him because it made me uncomfortable and she made it known that she understood why I felt the way I did so we moved forward.

Fast forward to our break up, hes unblocked, added back onto socials and knowing now that hes on her twitter that she rarely ever uses, the signs all point towards him as the new guy she is seeing (i also know that the guy she is seeing was someone she used to work with which makes it make even more sense). This is all just a deduction of course and you might as me 'Bxrrows why do you even care?'. The point for me is that i understood she would have a subconcious back up in mind for when we did split as her cycle as always been like that with every ex, but its made me rethink a big portion of our relationship and was the situation a few months back cheating that I didnt even know about?

Its funny to me as well because she made a point numerous times to tell me how disgusting she found him and would always saw "eww hs is gross" when i would wind her up with jokes about him, following when she blocked him originally.

Also a few days after we split, I asked her where she was and she told me she was home watching tv, she forgot I still had her location and i saw she went straight from work to a random house, so I called her and eventually she picked up. When confronted on the what I knew she had no answer and told me via text after hanging up that she was visiting a friend of hers who was a "40 year old man friend" (remember she is 22) who she sought advice from like a father figure. At the time I really had no reason to distrust her as to my knowledge she never lied to me and it fit some of the strange friendships with older people i knew she had already. Having my theory now about starting to see this guy from her work, im sure she was at his place instead of this 40 year old man as it was in a simular loaction to where she told me he lived in a previous conversation.

Hoping not to come across too arogarrogant by saying this but that guy from her work is 5'6, balding at 22, worse looking (im not exactly a diamond but hes like a 3/10) and makes less then half of my annual salary so to me knowing she has downgraded in every department gives me something to smile about.

Coming to this realisation now made me rethink a lot of things that happened leading up to us ending, if im right then she lied to me for a very long time about a lot of stuff and even though it changes nothing now, im having a lot of thoughts about things i previously never second guessed.

If my theory about him being the guy is correct then the only logical reason for her wanting to be around him right now is for that possitive attention she gets to feed her narcassism as she hasnt been getting that from me becasue of our situation. Knowing it will eventually implode at some point from her inabilty to keep people around and that the foundation of whatever they have is built on the ruins of our relationship makes me happy. Im not a vindictive person at all but knowing how hard i fought for us get through our rough patch ended how it did, she will have no chance making anything last with anyone, let alone her rebound from work.

Bxrrows

This was the part I was refering to SD, if you or anyone else had any thoughts on this section as its been playing on my mind for the last week.

Again thanks to all who have helped give me more insight from their perspective thus far.

Bxrrows

[SaltyDawg]

This was the part I was refering to SD, if you or anyone else had any thoughts on this section as its been playing on my mind for the last week.

Again thanks to all who have helped give me more insight from their perspective thus far.

Bxrrows

Bxrrows,

   Sorry for the misunderstanding, that is why I asked, as you had written quite a bit.  Being mindful I am not a trained expert, nor am I a licensed therapist, I will look at it from a perspective of being a peer mentor who has done a lot of informal research and observation on the topic, so at best these will be educated guesses based on my personal experiences...  So here goes...


I think my main issue is the fact that i am natrually a fixer within relationships and after a year of spending 3/4 days a week with her, I got used to being that person who would be ready to help her through her mood changes.

I think most of us who post on this site are 'naturally a fixer' as this is a codependent trait, and according to Google >90% of us have codependent traits.  Also, it is not your job to help her through her mood changes.  I tell my wife I am a shoulder for you to cry on; however, I will not be used as your punching bag (where she takes out her dysregulated emotions on me).  It took me a while to learn this (I am a slow learner, as you can teach this old 'dawg' new tricks).  I validate her feelings and emotions; however, I will not validate the invalid which are too often the false facts that are derived from her overly intense feelings that are causing her mood shifts.


She would often be laughing with me about a silly joke or situation we found funny together, then suddenly burst into tears a few mins later and say she didnt feel good. I think with that dynamic in place of knowing at any time her mood could flip and being made to feel like i was the solution by her always saying "i need my Bxrrows" gave me some feeling of responsibilty over making sure she was always okay.

These mood shifts are described in the symptom "Rapid changes in mood, lasting usually only a few hours and rarely more than a few days"


With that all in mind I could see whenever we would meet or speak over the phone, that scared girl who needed me would show herself breifly before the nasty split personality came back to take control of her again. Knowing my girl was still inside of her deep down made me feel like there would be a time where she would see sense and reach out to reconsile all the wrong that had happened.

That scared little girl is always present.  People with a moderate to severe mental health illness, and BPD is such an illness.  The paradox of having a mental health illness is that they will lash out at the ones that they love the most.  I've seen this with my dAlzheimer's SM, I have also seen this with my dAN daughter, my wife, and in many other scenarios as I attend support groups that have similar dynamics.  It doesn't matter what the mental illness, if they cannot think rationally, they cannot reconcile all of the wrongs they have done, as they do not comprehend that they even did 'a wrong', I know this is the case for my wife.  In rare cases these individuals are lucent enough with enough self-awareness to make an attempt at reconciliation, my wife thought she did.  My wife attempted this; however, the explanations she gave for the 'wrongs' that I listed to her were truly baffling, especially the ones where she falsely accused me of having multiple affairs - her thought processes we're so neurodivergent (bat sh!t crazy) they were hard to comprehend.

So, even if you do manage to get her to make an attempt at reconciliation, it likely won't make any sense as it did in my case.

I know for my wife, she wants to so badly be seen as normal, that there is nothing wrong with her; yet, deep down inside she has come to accept there is something wrong with her.  So far we have dealt and addressed with the more obvious and readily recognized issues (suicide, physical abuse, yelling, raging, etc.); however, she lacks clarity on some of the less readily recognizable issues that are fueled by her run-away emotional feelings which result in less obvious psychological and verbal abuse - this is where I am at now with my wife, starting to address the less obvious issues which are present, but she is still in denial of.


So the past of being the fixer for her mood swings, seeing glimpses of that scared girl and just wanting her to be okay regardless of where that left us kept me checking her socials and looking when she was last active on whatsapp. Knowing that if she didnt go on whatsapp in the evening would mean the new guy shes seeing would be with her and the fact i had access to that information and couldnt stop myself from blocking and unblocking resulted in me needing her to block me so I simply had no way to check. I know its giving up power that she will use to fuel her but i honestly had no other choice if i wanted to move forward as for her i had no self control.

Just as another segment of information on the latest development on the situation since my last post. Currently I am blocked on all socials that we would typically comunicate on. However I am not blocked on twitter (x) and would from time to time open her page just to look at her profile pic and leave. On her twitter she only follows meme pages I showed her and myself, but I have noticed she started following a guy she used to work with who we previously had issues with.

According to https://www.happierhuman.com/codependent-traits/ one of the traits of being codependent is "Poor communication regarding feelings, wants, or needs."  Which is echoed in CoDO.org literature at https://coda.org/meeting-materials/service-materials/.  You have indicated that you are noticing a lot of what she does is following guys that you previously had issues with.  These are red and yellow flags to a normal person; however, a codependent person such as myself would often miss these flags, only to get burned a little later on with that person when they did something that would disrespect you.  Why she is following these guys, look at my explanation on my previous post about being abandoned as the foundational symptom of being borderline is "Desperate efforts to avoid abandonment (actual or imagined)".

My guess is that she chose to abandon you, so she can blame you for the breakup, before you could abandon her (it always feels better if you can dump some else before they can dump you, as you are the one in control of that in order to blame you for the issue versus accepting the shame of being the reason why the relationship ended).  Likewise, she monkey branched to these other guys, so she would not be abandoned.


For some context this same guy used to offer her lifts home that were completly out of his way and message her late at night, I told her that he was clearly into her and it made me uncomfrotable. After some back and forth, I told her I wanted her to block him because the late night chats did not stop after a couple of weeks of this going on. Eventually she did end up blocking him because it made me uncomfortable and she made it known that she understood why I felt the way I did so we moved forward.

These other guys were going out of their way to please her, so she imagined that you might be abandoning her as you gave her less attention than they did, from her perspective which is based solely on her feelings, and not the facts which would indicate otherwise (I am describing a subconscious thought process of the borderline, as they are too often not aware of this)


Fast forward to our break up, hes unblocked, added back onto socials and knowing now that hes on her twitter that she rarely ever uses, the signs all point towards him as the new guy she is seeing (i also know that the guy she is seeing was someone she used to work with which makes it make even more sense). This is all just a deduction of course and you might as me 'Bxrrows why do you even care?'. The point for me is that i understood she would have a subconcious back up in mind for when we did split as her cycle as always been like that with every ex, but its made me rethink a big portion of our relationship and was the situation a few months back cheating that I didnt even know about?

Its funny to me as well because she made a point numerous times to tell me how disgusting she found him and would always saw "eww hs is gross" when i would wind her up with jokes about him, following when she blocked him originally.

I see that you recognize the cycle.  I am validating that you have an accurate perception of this cycle, as I have described a similar one in this post and the previous one.  It is likely when in her mind that you no longer met her needs from some perceived slight that you might not even be aware of in which she devalued you, she looked to someone else with whom she can idolize. 

Borderlines (and other cluster-B) have what is commonly known as the ' narcissistic abuse cycle' that is described by the 2nd borderline symptom of "Unstable, intense relationships that alternate between idealizing and devaluing the other person"


Also a few days after we split, I asked her where she was and she told me she was home watching tv, she forgot I still had her location and i saw she went straight from work to a random house, so I called her and eventually she picked up. When confronted on the what I knew she had no answer and told me via text after hanging up that she was visiting a friend of hers who was a "40 year old man friend" (remember she is 22) who she sought advice from like a father figure. At the time I really had no reason to distrust her as to my knowledge she never lied to me and it fit some of the strange friendships with older people i knew she had already. Having my theory now about starting to see this guy from her work, im sure she was at his place instead of this 40 year old man as it was in a simular loaction to where she told me he lived in a previous conversation.

Hoping not to come across too arogarrogant by saying this but that guy from her work is 5'6, balding at 22, worse looking (im not exactly a diamond but hes like a 3/10) and makes less then half of my annual salary so to me knowing she has downgraded in every department gives me something to smile about.

Since I have come to realize things about borderlines, they are looking for stability in their ideal partner, someone who is older and can take care of them (even if they only have the physical appearance of this).  I am a fat but fit guy, about 100 pounds overweight that mountain bikes, SCUBA dives, etc. with male pattern baldness, I am always the heaviest guy there - yet I attract these hard body young females about 10-20 years younger than me.  While I get a boost in my self-esteem, I have no idea what drives these girls to almost throw themselves at me at times - my uBPDw has even seen two of these girls, whom i had never previously met do this to me. 

My theory on this is that they cannot find someone who would accept them as they are, so they must seek out people who would accept them for whom they are, and that means downgrading the partners physical appearance in exchange security in knowing that they won't leave them once the flags  come out, they also look for a good secure job in you.  They also naturally gravitate to those who are codependent, I know I have traits of being a fixer / caretaker.


Coming to this realisation now made me rethink a lot of things that happened leading up to us ending, if im right then she lied to me for a very long time about a lot of stuff and even though it changes nothing now, im having a lot of thoughts about things i previously never second guessed.

She probably did this, you caught her, she covered her tracks, and when it was over, she uncovered them.  Use this as a learning experience, so you don't repeat these mistakes on the next one.


If my theory about him being the guy is correct then the only logical reason for her wanting to be around him right now is for that possitive attention she gets to feed her narcassism as she hasnt been getting that from me becasue of our situation. Knowing it will eventually implode at some point from her inabilty to keep people around and that the foundation of whatever they have is built on the ruins of our relationship makes me happy. Im not a vindictive person at all but knowing how hard i fought for us get through our rough patch ended how it did, she will have no chance making anything last with anyone, let alone her rebound from work.

As I indicated the 'fear of abandonment' is the foundation for her 'wanting that positive attention' from her new guy, which is her new emotional supply.

Whether it's narcissism or being borderline they share many of the same traits, as both are on the cluster-B spectrum, and share minor nuances between the two.  I strongly suspect you are right, she will continue to have a series of unstable relationships.  The emotion I have is 'pity' for someone like that, as they cannot comprehend what they are doing to themselves, unless it reaches extremes (like suicide attempts) and only then can they get some clarity on what is going on with them, only to then realize that they indeed are the 'monster' as my wife has called herself on several occasions with me and our children.

I hope this gives you greater insight as to why your relationship failed.  It also explains, you will not likely get the closure you seek, as they are not rational.  I hope this aids in your understanding of the dynamic that is going on.

If you are unsure, and want additional clarification, I will attempt to explain from my understanding of the borderline mind.

As you are recovering from this relationship, and it will be much more impactful than a normal relationship ever was from the push-pull dynamic, be sure to do self-care whatever that looks like for you.

Take care.

SD