Sharing my story about a failed relationship with a pwBPD

[Anonymous_male]

Hello,

First of all thank you so much for the possibility to share my story, as it lays heavy on me.

About 6 months ago I met my BPD ex, I believe the petulant sub-type. I did not know at the time that she has it or anything about it. However today I am very certain of it. She is undiagnosed.

As I have read about a lot for others, it all started very fast. On the first day she had me mesmerized completely (honeymoon phase). I don't think I have ever experienced anything like it, even though another experience with a co-dependent person comes close.

For the first month and a half everything felt amazing, trips walking, eating out etc. Long phone conversations daily. Felt that I had found someone who really understood me. There were a few strange incidents though, like she felt I "did something" to her by looking into her eyes the way I did. I was simply in love with her.

Then I got a phone call one night that she was pregnant. I was shocked to hear this. Before sex, she had told me that she had something benign on her uterus that made it nearly impossible for her to get pregnant, so she said we did not need to use a condom. As I am the careful type, I ask what if the impossible happens. She then said that in this case, she would just get an abortion. Well long story short, we were working on having an abortion until she changed her mind completely that she would have the child. I was outraged as I did not want any more children, but her mind was set. This also would mean me paying a great sum every month for 18 years, after a r/s of a couple of months. This was very difficult for me, and we were in a dark period, where she was trying to change me, that I drank to much alcohol even though I didn't etc. Anyway I made a decision to try and go ahead with her and this child anyway. I never promised her anything, but said that I would try. I thought at the time that if this r/s would end, it would be because of starting over (she is 34, I am 45). But from here the bad things really began.

After a good day for example I come home (we live apart) and she tells me on text or over the phone that I am making her emotionally unstable and that I should stop that. I ask her what she means but she cannot tell me. She tells me that I should figure it out and do something about it. This made me very frustrated naturally and each time an anger outburst follows for hours on text. So much that I cannot take it any longer and end up blocking her (as I am still accused of doing today). She then call on an unknown number the day after and I end up taking her back. This sequence of events goes on for 5-6 times over a few months along with other things like telling me sometimes that she had such a great day, just until I came (who says that?) amongst other incidents. Anyway a month ago she made it really clear to me on text that we do not belong together, incompatible etc. etc. and I thought this last time that it was finally over because of what she wrote. So after this the next day she calls me again and I ask why she is calling and she replies that she does not know. This was it for me, my nerves could no longer be in this relationship. It was also just a matter of time until the unstableness came as she writes it on text and then I know what happens next. This would drive me insane. I then started reading up on if she could have a disorder and found BPD to fit very very well, both by symptoms and by reading others stories. I then find out the general recommendation is NC. So I think I have to do this, for my own sake. She is in a really bad shape at this point and only lashes out. I do not join in on this. I listen carefully for a half an hour over the phone, responding only in a loving manner to her, and says we are a bad fit and she agrees, but keeps lashing out.

About a month has passed since the NC and I have had to deactivate my voice mail and set my phone to deny unknown callers. To this day she stills tries to call, as I sometimes see it on the list of unanswered calls and keeps sending me small messages on my mobile pay system, that I cannot block her on. I have blocked her everywhere else. She has tried going through both a friend and my sister (triangulation?) to contact me. I feel very bad about her condition. I know that she does not deserve this disease, nor my NC, but I have to protect myself. I try not to read the messages, but the are all about how bad I am. How can a person treat someone so badly, I am the worst person etc. I never respond.

The issue now of course is with the child. She gives birth in March next year and her last messages is will I attend the birth as I promised. I am unsure if I have promised this, but anyway was before I found out she has BPD. Back when I talked with her, and lightly mentioned if she had som issue, she got very angry at me, telling me I was the one who was sick. Anyway, I know have a decision to make. I am thinking that it would not be a good idea for me to spend a whole day in an intimate setting with her giving birth. I am a very conscious person and only want to help other people, but I fear that she would suck me back in as she did all those times as she has a way of doing and maybe she knows this, I am not sure.

I am in a very bad spot at this time and I miss her a lot, but I cannot allow her to mistreat me the way she does. I would end up with PTSD, anxiety or something. So I feel I have to let her go. Then what of the child. I am thinking like my sister says that I should wait and see, maybe wait a few years and see if I want time with the child, as it is then a little bigger. I have from the beginning been very clear that I would not go into another arrangement as I have today with my 2 older kids. I never wanted this, she did not even talk to me about it. She decided to have the child against my will. Now I am trying to figure out how I would go about this new child being hurt as little as possible in this unwanted situation. Figure out if I visit the child it would maybe not be enough and what is enough?

Thanks a lot for reading and for giving me a place to share my story. You are of course welcome to comment your thoughts. Just be gentle with me please, as this is very difficult for me.

Thanks

[Anonymous_male]

Why does she keep writing and calling? It’s hard to Leave someone you still have feelings for. Even harder when she keeps trying to contact me (I don’t answer) :’(

[SaltyDawg]

Anonymous Male,

   Thank you for reaching out to us.  We are here to listen and support you.

   Based on what you have described, there is a distinct possibility that you are dealing with a borderline woman, let me know if you would like to be pointed in a good direction so that you can make that assessment.

   You asked:

Why does she keep writing and calling? It’s hard to Leave someone you still have feelings for. Even harder when she keeps trying to contact me (I don’t answer) :’(

Short Answer:  She is pregnant, and she is scared, and believes that you are the father of her unborn child, and she does not want you to abandon her.  Additionally, she is likely looking for someone to take care of her and her/your unborn child.

I am in a very bad spot at this time and I miss her a lot, but I cannot allow her to mistreat me the way she does. I would end up with PTSD, anxiety or something. So I feel I have to let her go. Then what of the child. I am thinking like my sister says that I should wait and see, maybe wait a few years and see if I want time with the child, as it is then a little bigger. I have from the beginning been very clear that I would not go into another arrangement as I have today with my 2 older kids. I never wanted this, she did not even talk to me about it. She decided to have the child against my will. Now I am trying to figure out how I would go about this new child being hurt as little as possible in this unwanted situation. Figure out if I visit the child it would maybe not be enough and what is enough?

From what you have shared, it is safe to say, that you do not want a meaningful relationship with this woman.  However, if the child is yours, you are legally obligated to care for it even if you were 'tricked' into having one with her.  If you doubt the child is yours, perhaps retain an attorney/council to request a DNA a test to determine if you are the father of the child, and if you are, then find out your obligations are to the child.  Since she decided to have the child without your consent, the best place to find the answers is with legal council.

Since you have indicated you already have two other children, how old are they?  Where do they live?

Perhaps come up with alternative solutions, such as putting the child up for adoption.

You can bounce these ideas off the group members here.

In any event, you have been through a lot emotionally, be sure to do some self-care whatever that might look like for you.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[Anonymous_male]

Anonymous Male,

   Thank you for reaching out to us.  We are here to listen and support you.

Thank you.

   Based on what you have described, there is a distinct possibility that you are dealing with a borderline woman, let me know if you would like to be pointed in a good direction so that you can make that assessment.


Short Answer:  She is pregnant, and she is scared, and believes that you are the father of her unborn child, and she does not want you to abandon her.  Additionally, she is likely looking for someone to take care of her and her/your unborn child.

Yes, I believe you are right

From what you have shared, it is safe to say, that you do not want a meaningful relationship with this woman.  However, if the child is yours, you are legally obligated to care for it even if you were 'tricked' into having one with her.  If you doubt the child is yours, perhaps retain an attorney/council to request a DNA a test to determine if you are the father of the child, and if you are, then find out your obligations are to the child.  Since she decided to have the child without your consent, the best place to find the answers is with legal council.

Well I do, but I don't see how I can live like that. The constant worry of when the next time comes where she has her angry outburst. This is what made us go back and forth 6 times. I miss her a lot, after about 6 weeks now. But I have to take care of myself also

Since you have indicated you already have two other children, how old are they?  Where do they live?

They are 14 and 17 and live with their mother nearby. I see them regularly.

Perhaps come up with alternative solutions, such as putting the child up for adoption.

Well, it is not up to me. She has decided to keep the child and is allowed under danish law to decide everything.

You can bounce these ideas off the group members here.

In any event, you have been through a lot emotionally, be sure to do some self-care whatever that might look like for you.

Take care with self-care.

Thanks a lot. I am still uncertain as to what the future will hold, but I have spoken to a therapist since, and I will contact her to see the child regularly in some schedule that I can live with, after the child is born. Both for the childs sake and for mine. She wants me at the birth, but that would be too intimate for me post break-up. I wish there was a way to carry on, but she is not at all motivated for treatment. Everyone else is the problem.

SD

[SaltyDawg]

Anonymous Male,

   
Well I do, but I don't see how I can live like that.  The constant worry of when the next time comes where she has her angry outburst. This is what made us go back and forth 6 times. I miss her a lot, after about 6 weeks now. But I have to take care of myself also.

I agree with what you have said about taking care of yourself.  I also agree that it is nearly impossible to see how this can work out for you. 

Since you are contemplating staying there for her, this is the best book for managing the borderline to make it a bit more manageable for you.  I recommend the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life" by Margalis Fjelstad


You indicated that you also have a 14 and 17 that live with their mother nearby and you see them regularly.  I have a S12 & D17 year old as well, so I know how teenagers can be.  So, this would likely not be a good fit for a newborn, especially as your children live pretty much full time with their mother.


Well, it is not up to me. She has decided to keep the child and is allowed under danish law to decide everything.

I looked up Danish law at https://brill.com/display/book/edcoll/9789004382817/BP000024.xml?language=en  Other than taking a paternity test to see if you are not the child's parent you will be trapped with child support to at least 18 if not 24 as the 'paper abortion' mentioned at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_abortion#Denmark has not been codified into law although there is support for it.  I would suggest approaching an attorney/solicitor to find out what your rights are.  If there is a high conflict parent (possible) then you can gain full custody, and she can pay you support payments; however, based on what you have said, I am guessing that you don't want this.


Thanks a lot. I am still uncertain as to what the future will hold, but I have spoken to a therapist since, and I will contact her to see the child regularly in some schedule that I can live with, after the child is born. Both for the childs sake and for mine. She wants me at the birth, but that would be too intimate for me post break-up. I wish there was a way to carry on, but she is not at all motivated for treatment. Everyone else is the problem.

4 years ago, my wife thought I was the problem, I have been shining a spotlight on her issues, that she openly has admitted to, and now sees that she has issues too - things can change, but requires a herculean effort to do so.  She needs to want to change in order to do any change - as long as she refuses, you need to stay firm with your boundary on this.  I told my wife, as long as I see positive change, I will be there for her.

Might I suggest a compromise for the birth visit.  Instead of being in the theater for the actual birth, perhaps a brief visit immediately after the child is born, and you wait in a waiting room like they did decades ago for the father who was not allowed to see the birth.  What do you think?

You mentioned that you had broken up 6 times - some borderlines cannot be without a supply, so if she was seeing someone else during those time(s), you could possibly not be the father - I highly recommend that you get a paternity test indicating that you are the father before signing any papers at the hospital.  This is something you should ask of the attorney/solicitor as well.

Take care with self-care.

SD

[Anonymous_male]

Anonymous Male,

I agree with what you have said about taking care of yourself.  I also agree that it is nearly impossible to see how this can work out for you. 

Since you are contemplating staying there for her, this is the best book for managing the borderline to make it a bit more manageable for you.  I recommend the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life" by Margalis Fjelstad


You indicated that you also have a 14 and 17 that live with their mother nearby and you see them regularly.  I have a S12 & D17 year old as well, so I know how teenagers can be.  So, this would likely not be a good fit for a newborn, especially as your children live pretty much full time with their mother.

Yes, the newborn that is coming definitely makes the situation difficult.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I will have a look at this.

My kids at this point are actually somewhat easy to deal with, and they are of course interested in this new child coming. I tell them that I don't know how things look yet, but that they will of course get to see her if they want to.

I looked up Danish law at https://brill.com/display/book/edcoll/9789004382817/BP000024.xml?language=en  Other than taking a paternity test to see if you are not the child's parent you will be trapped with child support to at least 18 if not 24 as the 'paper abortion' mentioned at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_abortion#Denmark has not been codified into law although there is support for it.  I would suggest approaching an attorney/solicitor to find out what your rights are.  If there is a high conflict parent (possible) then you can gain full custody, and she can pay you support payments; however, based on what you have said, I am guessing that you don't want this.

Thanks for looking into this and yes you are right. I have spoken to an attorney and there is nothing I could do to deny payments. I could probably the other way around as you mentioned but I am not interested in this

4 years ago, my wife thought I was the problem, I have been shining a spotlight on her issues, that she openly has admitted to, and now sees that she has issues too - things can change, but requires a herculean effort to do so.  She needs to want to change in order to do any change - as long as she refuses, you need to stay firm with your boundary on this.  I told my wife, as long as I see positive change, I will be there for her.

Sounds great for you to get that far, but as you mention also a lot of effort from your side. I am not sure of the degree of bpd my ex has. Maybe to the light side, but still the angry outbursts and blaming me for everything is hard to deal with and how far am I willing to go. It helps knowing that it is the disease talking, but like you have said, I would also require that she owns up to it.

Might I suggest a compromise for the birth visit.  Instead of being in the theater for the actual birth, perhaps a brief visit immediately after the child is born, and you wait in a waiting room like they did decades ago for the father who was not allowed to see the birth.  What do you think?

Nice suggestion. My history with her tells me that she would feel like I was not stepping up and that I might as well not come at all. That is my first thought. Myself, I don't have a need to be there, it would be for her. Please bear in mind that I did not want any more kids. So I after talking to my therapist who also has to do with children, I decided that I will at least be there for the child once a month and see how it goes. Perhaps more often with time.

You mentioned that you had broken up 6 times - some borderlines cannot be without a supply, so if she was seeing someone else during those time(s), you could possibly not be the father - I highly recommend that you get a paternity test indicating that you are the father before signing any papers at the hospital.  This is something you should ask of the attorney/solicitor as well.

I will definitely ask for a DNA test, since I have to pay the high child support. That being said, I am 99% sure it is mine. The about 6 times that I mention we broke up, we got together most often the day after or some days after. I call it break-up because my mind was set and each time it was right after one of her angry outbursts, accusing me of who knows what. I got so mad that I blocked her at the evening. The day after I feel different, she calls and we end up back together. The last time it happened I thought to myself that I would not do this to myself any longer and I went NC for 6 weeks now. But I still miss her. I did not know about bpd, only in the end. So maybe the r/s can still be worked on, I don't know. And it is a chance to take, because if I get involved with her again, she would begin the digital stalking again, perhaps calling me endlessly again, for a long time. At the same time and this is the most important reason for me having a hard time staying away. Since from the first time it is like she pours love into me, I have never experienced anything like it. The small kisses and caressing me through the night. This has felt unbelieveable. But the flipside is as bad at this is good I guess. One thing is for certain, we have developed strong feelings for each other I am very sure of that.

The NC naturally needs to end eventually, because in 3 months time she gives birth to a little girl and I want to be there for this girl. I was not sure in the beginning, however at this point I am. So how it will affect me seeing her again, I guess I will have to see. Sometimes I hope that she has found someone else, because it would make matters easier for me to deal with.


Take care with self-care.

SD

[jaded7]

After a good day for example I come home (we live apart) and she tells me on text or over the phone that I am making her emotionally unstable and that I should stop that. I ask her what she means but she cannot tell me. She tells me that I should figure it out and do something about it. This made me very frustrated naturally and each time an anger outburst follows for hours on text. So much that I cannot take it any longer and end up blocking her (as I am still accused of doing today). She then call on an unknown number the day after and I end up taking her back. This sequence of events goes on for 5-6 times over a few months along with other things like telling me sometimes that she had such a great day, just until I came (who says that?) amongst other incidents. Anyway a month ago she made it really clear to me on text that we do not belong together, incompatible etc. etc. and I thought this last time that it was finally over because of what she wrote. So after this the next day she calls me again and I ask why she is calling and she replies that she does not know. This was it for me, my nerves could no longer be in this relationship.

These are really hard dynamics. This one paragraph captures a great deal of living with a toxic person, BPD or not. But it certainly does sound like BPD behavior and thinking.

Look up these terms if you don't know them: intermittent reinforcement, mind-reading expectations, emotional/verbal abuse

I hope you are able to stay centered in all this, it's very hard I know.

[Anonymous_male]

Hi jaded7,

Thanks for your reply. I looked up the terms you mention. Wonder if it’s at all possible to deal with this. But I have to see the child at some point, so I Will see what happens. I am completele clueless at this stage, but hopefully time Will give me some answers.

[Tangled mangled]

@Anonymous,

Your story sounds similar to mine, only I’m female and stxh ( soon to be x husband) male and used forced reproduction to prevent me from leaving the relationship.

I wasn’t SA or anything like that but I had made it clear that I wasn’t ready for a second child. I was waiting for a contraceptive appointment when I believe he poisoned me with alcohol around Christmas, I’m not a drinker, I had gastric problems and saw a doctor for it.

Our first son now 9 has always been a difficult child and we were already struggling, although looking back to 7/8 years ago, I can see how having a BPD parent contributed to the issues I had with my son.


I’m just here to say, I ve been through this in a different way.

Now about the birth of the child is there anyone who can be there with you to support you while you pop in and out of the delivery suite.
You can make it clear that you can be present for the child and not for her. Therefore you will not be roped in to give the molly cuddles she’s after during the birth. She will expect you to show up prepared to play into her games but you can draw a solid boundary- eg be present like she was a surrogate for your child- this is who she is in reality atm.

I know I’m a bit harsh, but this advice is coming from someone who had been roped in to play a certain role all my life, not just with my ex husband, I have very little left in the way of empathy, when it comes to dealing with these toxic types.

Remember that you are in control and your number one priority is to keep yourself safe emotionally.

[Anonymous_male]

Thanks a lot for your story and advise tangled. I Will do some thinking on this. Right now I am leaning towards seeing the child after the birth.

[Tangled mangled]

Thanks a lot for your story and advise tangled. I Will do some thinking on this. Right now I am leaning towards seeing the child after the birth.

Seeing the child after the birth sounds like a great option too. If it’s a C section you will be expected to stay put in theatre because , due to infection control they may not allow you to go in and out of theatre as you please. So going in to see her right after the birth may be ideal in any case.
Take care

[jaded7]

Hi jaded7,

Thanks for your reply. I looked up the terms you mention. Wonder if it’s at all possible to deal with this. But I have to see the child at some point, so I Will see what happens. I am completele clueless at this stage, but hopefully time Will give me some answers.

It's very difficult to deal with this. We all speak from experience.  You have a situation different from mine with the child. Her behavior leading up to and once getting pregnant are abhorrent and dishonest, or at the very least highly irresponsible. And of course you now have no say in the matter.

[Anonymous_male]

It's very difficult to deal with this. We all speak from experience.  You have a situation different from mine with the child. Her behavior leading up to and once getting pregnant are abhorrent and dishonest, or at the very least highly irresponsible. And of course you now have no say in the matter.

Well, it is not completely clear. We saw the same doctor that had informed her of the condition. So I actually believe this part is true. We had naturally discussed this situation many times and she tells me several reasons. That she felt different now that it was real. That she really wanted a child more since 8 years ago when she was told she couldn't. That her family and upbringing were against abortions. There were sound of heart at the time. All these things got her mind changed. The first day she told me she got happy when she saw the test. There was a week or two where we were going for the abortion and we were at the doctor, where she signed the papers also. But she was not happy. So, well I am not apologizing for her but it would be cold to abort this child and try to have another at a later time at her age and everything and with the little chance of it happening. I think she saw this as her last chance. So could she really be blamed for this? I am actually not certain tbh. But of course I end up with the consequence of it. Which is not really fair to me. 

Anyway, at this point I have gotten to where I look forward to the child being born. It is a gift and I have gotten to see the positive side of it and I can decide for myself how often I see the child.

[SaltyDawg]

Anyway, at this point I have gotten to where I look forward to the child being born. It is a gift and I have gotten to see the positive side of it and I can decide for myself how often I see the child.

Please do what is best for the child, as the baby will also be your responsibility.

Work with your therapist on setting good boundaries on the nature of the relationship you want to have with the mother - I am assuming coparenting only right now, let me know if it is different.

Since it is Christmas Eve, sleep on this thought, make sure it is what you want, and perhaps reach out to her to offer support for the child, and let her know that you intend on being there for the birth and to be a presence in the child's life; however, temper it with you are still sorting out the details of your feelings on exactly how to proceed - don't commit to something that you are not willing to commit to; however, do commit to the portions that you are willing to commit to and that is having a relationship with the child.  Consider letting her know on Christmas Day.

Remember, the mother is a person too, with feelings, and the feeling of abandonment is a terrifying one.  I know you don't want to deal with her other emotional issues, so don't, set boundaries around those.  Be honest with her, and let her know if she asks about her future with you.  Keep it BIFF - brief informational factual and friendly, less is best, so she doesn't read too much into this.  If you are scared to talk directly, perhaps, a well composed text message instead.

Be sure to do self-care.

Take care.

SD

[Anonymous_male]

Please do what is best for the child, as the baby will also be your responsibility.

Work with your therapist on setting good boundaries on the nature of the relationship you want to have with the mother - I am assuming coparenting only right now, let me know if it is different.

Since it is Christmas Eve, sleep on this thought, make sure it is what you want, and perhaps reach out to her to offer support for the child, and let her know that you intend on being there for the birth and to be a presence in the child's life; however, temper it with you are still sorting out the details of your feelings on exactly how to proceed - don't commit to something that you are not willing to commit to; however, do commit to the portions that you are willing to commit to and that is having a relationship with the child.  Consider letting her know on Christmas Day.

Remember, the mother is a person too, with feelings, and the feeling of abandonment is a terrifying one.  I know you don't want to deal with her other emotional issues, so don't, set boundaries around those.  Be honest with her, and let her know if she asks about her future with you.  Keep it BIFF - brief informational factual and friendly, less is best, so she doesn't read too much into this.  If you are scared to talk directly, perhaps, a well composed text message instead.

Be sure to do self-care.

Take care.

SD

I will do all that I can so that this child will suffer as little as possible. I will be there for the child in some schedule that I can also live with even though I did not want this, so that it will have the very needed connection with her father.

Yes, I will have to set boundaries. I am a co-dependent person who have come very far in regards to understanding how important it is to take care of oneself.

At this point I don't think I can be there for the birth. I am convinced that this intimate setting would bring me right back with her. I have to take care of myself here. I really want to do good for her and I also asked my therapist what I can do for her. She says it is most important that I take care of myself and that there is not much I can do for her. I think breaking the NC would be bad, because she would think there is still a chance and maybe there is, but I don't want to hurt here by breaking and unbreaking NC. Right now all I can give her is that I will be there for the child and around the end I had already told her this. That to begin with and the best I could do was a day every month. She did not respond well to this.

Regarding the NC and why I am holding onto it is because she has stalked me, mostly digital and I have had to take measures.

Trust me I have thought about her and her condition a lot. From I first learned about the disorder, my first thought was, how terrible this must be for her.

[SaltyDawg]

AM,

A quick response from me.

I will do all that I can so that this child will suffer as little as possible. I will be there for the child in some schedule that I can also live with even though I did not want this, so that it will have the very needed connection with her father.

Do not ever let your soon to be daughter ever know that you did not want this, as she has the potential to be very destabilizing as the disordered mother will likely pass on many of the 'learned behaviors' from the mother to your daughter.  Be prepared for the possibility that your daughter too will have a version of this disorder, as it is both genetic and environmental.  I have seen this dynamic over and over in those who have BPD and/or Bipolar traits.  Talk with your therapist on this too.


Yes, I will have to set boundaries. I am a co-dependent person who have come very far in regards to understanding how important it is to take care of oneself.

I too have codependent traits, you may want to consider attending a few CoDA meetings, for your country it looks like only one Zoom meeting is available at www.coda-danmark.dk/.


At this point I don't think I can be there for the birth. I am convinced that this intimate setting would bring me right back with her. I have to take care of myself here. I really want to do good for her and I also asked my therapist what I can do for her. She says it is most important that I take care of myself and that there is not much I can do for her. I think breaking the NC would be bad, because she would think there is still a chance and maybe there is, but I don't want to hurt here by breaking and unbreaking NC. Right now all I can give her is that I will be there for the child and around the end I had already told her this. That to begin with and the best I could do was a day every month. She did not respond well to this.

Regarding the NC and why I am holding onto it is because she has stalked me, mostly digital and I have had to take measures.

If your daughter is going to be part of your life, it will have to shift to LC, as NC is not possible.
Consider a disposable VOIP number, I don't know if Google Voice is available in your country, get a free number that will ring/text virtually on your cell phone.  Turn it off when you don't want to deal with her, mark her number as spam, so it won't even ring, and you look at it on your time table.  Set a boundary on the number of times per day/week you will communicate, and keep it at that.


Trust me I have thought about her and her condition a lot. From I first learned about the disorder, my first thought was, how terrible this must be for her. 

It is a very difficult disorder to deal with, and it is very easy for her emotions to get out of control unless she has had effective therapy and is willing to work on herself, and even then it is quite difficult at times.


Just a reminder to take care with self-care.

I hope you have a happy holiday.

SD

[Anonymous_male]

Hi SD, merry Christmas and thank you for the advise. I would never let this child feel that she was not wanted by me. And when she is born, she is of course welcomed and a new situation arises, where how I did not want another child no longer applies.

I have attented CoDa meetings before and later moved to ACA meetings. It has been a while though.

LC seems to be the correct path yes. FB Messenger is actually able to do all these things you mention and she uses it too, so this could work. I actually after being advised this by you guys on the board and having spoken to a good friend about it broke the NC yesterday and let her know that I will participate in both birth and some schedule with my daughter. Unfortunately she has not read it, and I assume it has ended up in her message requests section. Hopefully she will notice this.

Regarding the birth, I thought about it and felt deep inside that it would be wrong to just wait until the child is born. I feel that I should be there at the birth also. Hopefully I am able to shield my feelings for her. I feel i have to ask for the DNA test when that time comes. So I will have to let her know this in a way that does not trigger her. The DNA test is important to me. I am 99% sure that the child is mine, but still.

With LC and in regards to boundaries, I assume that I let her know that this xyz is the schedule that we can use and the reason for it, is for my need to take care of myself. Not sure of what kind of schedule I will use now as there is 3 months until the child comes. I feel that I have taken contact somewhat prematurely, but still do not feel that I could have waited 3 months more. Also she deserves to know that I will be there and not be unsure about this, stressing her and the child. But it is a risk for me as she is the type of person who engages in a lot of text message contact. I know that this is what the LC is for. It still feels difficult, but I should be pretty good at taking case of myself. Hopefully.

[SaltyDawg]

Quick response to a few of your comments...


I have attented CoDa meetings before and later moved to ACA meetings. It has been a while though.

You might want to consider revisiting those meetings if it become overwhelming for you.


FB Messenger is actually able to do all these things you mention and she uses it too, so this could work. I actually after being advised this by you guys on the board and having spoken to a good friend about it broke the NC yesterday and let her know that I will participate in both birth and some schedule with my daughter. Unfortunately she has not read it, and I assume it has ended up in her message requests section. Hopefully she will notice this.

Regarding FB messenger, the other party can see while you are typing, a work-a-round would be to compose the message in a word processor, copy and paste it into messenger, so she cannot see how long it took for you to compose the message.

You indicated that you have 3 months, so you have some time to figure out the boundaries you want to keep with regards to communication (LC) and visitation/parenting.  I don't know exactly what Danish law looks like as far as custody arrangement goes.


Regarding the birth, I thought about it and felt deep inside that it would be wrong to just wait until the child is born. I feel that I should be there at the birth also. Hopefully I am able to shield my feelings for her. I feel i have to ask for the DNA test when that time comes. So I will have to let her know this in a way that does not trigger her. The DNA test is important to me. I am 99% sure that the child is mine, but still.

Tell her your version of the truth using SET communication and "I" statements....  Perhaps something like "I felt like I was entrapped by the pregnancy when I was told it would not happen, and I feel that this was not being honest with me.  I also feel that we had some breakups, even though they weren't that long, I have a nagging feeling that the child might not be mine at all - before I commit to signing the papers which will obligate me for the 18 to 24 years, I feel the need for reassurance about being the father.  I feel the only certain way of doing this is  from a DNA test that the child is indeed mine so I can support you and our daughter from this point forward".
 

Take care with self care.

SD


PS Going offline until Friday +/- I will respond after that.

[Anonymous_male]

Thanks SD. I am meeting her for a talk tonight. I have let her know about the dna test. She took it well. As you May have read from former posts I am undecided about how to continue with her. Different this time is I know and have read a lot about the disorder. Also from the book “How to love someone with BPD”. The validation part I feel is important. I did use this before also, as it felt natural. If I feel things going well and well prepared for later outbreaks, I feel I have to make sure the direction to take. It feels like I Cannot move on without knowing for sure. So yeah fingers crossed

[Anonymous_male]

Just an Update from me. We met Yesterday and talked. She said that she was just starting to feel good again. I said that I am so sorry, but it was a chance I took with her best interest at heart. Either to let her be or to let her take comfort in knowing I would be there for the child. I made the wrong choice I guess. I felt that after Educating myself I Would want to give this one more chance. She did not want this. I am waiting now to see if she really mean this as we have been here before. I now am very sad to let her go and also very plagued with the guilt of the NC during 5-6 weeks. Can only imagine what this did to her.  Now coming to rip the wound all up again. Having to tell myself that I did not know about the disease back then and felt I had to protect myself. Reading online learning about it in the beginning, everyone says to go NC and I was worried about stalking. I am wiser now. Also I Cannot tell her about this because Long story but she is not able to cope with me Letting her now about me thinking she says BPD. She accused me of having NPD etc. She is in a very fragile State. The whole thing feels just heartbreaking. She is not even sure she wants me at the birth now. I feel so bad for what I let her go through. I never wanted to hurt her. I guess I looked out for myself first. That is what you are supposed to do right?

[SaltyDawg]

I have let her know about the dna test. She took it well.

Even though you are pretty sure it is yours, it will give you peace of mind knowing with certainty.


As you May have read from former posts I am undecided about how to continue with her.

I definitely sense that you are conflicted, perhaps ask the moderators to move this thread there you may get a better response.

If you do decide to have a life-long relationship with her, you do need to go in with your eyes wide open and know what you are getting yourself into.


Different this time is I know and have read a lot about the disorder. Also from the book “How to love someone with BPD”. The validation part I feel is important. I did use this before also, as it felt natural. If I feel things going well and well prepared for later outbreaks, I feel I have to make sure the direction to take. It feels like I Cannot move on without knowing for sure. So yeah fingers crossed

Validation is extremely important to a borderline.  However, make sure you only validate the valid (her feelings, and facts), do not validate the invalid (a false narrative where she bends the truth to match her feelings, which become 'not true').

Speaking of books, I am going to recommend two, one to identify with reasonable certainty she is indeed a 'borderline' - "Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder" by Paul T. T. Mason MS & Randi Kreger.  Make sure you get the 3rd edition as it has a really useful assessment tool in it.

The 2nd one, is to manage the dynamic so it does not go out of control with yelling / rages / or even physical violence - "Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life" by Margalis Fjelstad

Right now it is the holidays, and emotions are affected, as everyone wants to be together and happy.  If she is a borderline (the calm demeanor that you describe below is not) so it is important to fully assess the situation with the tool in the SWOE book.


I felt that after Educating myself I Would want to give this one more chance. She did not want this. I am waiting now to see if she really mean this as we have been here before. I now am very sad to let her go and also very plagued with the guilt of the NC during 5-6 weeks. Can only imagine what this did to her.  Now coming to rip the wound all up again. Having to tell myself that I did not know about the disease back then and felt I had to protect myself. Reading online learning about it in the beginning, everyone says to go NC and I was worried about stalking.

You have hurt her, badly.  Her response seems pretty rational for a woman under those circumstances.  You are not a licensed, professional.  I am not a licensed professional.  Time with separation will make things seem a lot less intense.  Make sure, using the assessment tool in the SWOE book, that you are indeed dealing with a borderline.  The old school consensus is to go NC with a borderline; however, if you are having a child together, this is impossible.  Only you can decide what is best for you, so please take the time to ponder what you want to do.  Borderlines are people too and have feelings, and those feelings are quite intense both in good ways and in bad ways.  Only you can decide what is best for you.


I am wiser now. Also I Cannot tell her about this because Long story but she is not able to cope with me Letting her now about me thinking she says BPD. She accused me of having NPD etc.

How did it make you feel when she accused you of being NPD?  It will likely be very similar if you told her that you thought she was BPD.  Try to imagine yourself in her shoes, how would she receive something like that from you?  It is best to not share your opinion of her having BPD, unless there is suicidal behaviors, hitting, punching, and other behaviors obvious behaviors that are so far from normal behaviors that it can be questioned.  However, if none of that is happening, and there are only subtle behaviors that could be defined within the realm of normal, it could easily be attributable to other things other than being borderline, and once the label or name is given, the damage will be done, whether or not it is true.


She is in a very fragile State. The whole thing feels just heartbreaking. She is not even sure she wants me at the birth now. I feel so bad for what I let her go through. I never wanted to hurt her. I guess I looked out for myself first. That is what you are supposed to do right?

Yes, she is in a very 'fragile state'.  Please be mindful of how she is feeling, try and put yourself in her shoes if the roles were reversed - what would be feeling if you were the one pregnant, and your partner left you?  Would you want your partner to be there at the birth of your child?  I personally find it helpful to role-play and imagine what it would feel like for my wife, based on my behaviors.

Validate the valid.  Also, keep firm boundaries on bad behavior.

Be sure to do self-care.

Take care.

[Anonymous_male]

Thanks for the reply SD. I am pretty convinced she has this disorder. But I see your point.

I have read a lot in the book I mentioned and already used the validation part with good succes.

I agree that the pregnancy makes things more fragile. I am a very empathetic person and I already know what I did with the NC. I feel very bad about it as is. I did the best I could in a situation I did not quite understand.

I take it Easy when she accuses me of NPD etc. as I know pretty well who I am. I am a actually a Highly sensitive person (HSP). But I know I should not say she has BPD but I feel like I am keeping it from her.  I am Reading books and writing in here, but not able to tell her about it. I Will look more into the books you mention.

As you said and as I have read I must not validate the invalid. Yesterday I found out the hardest part. She believes that I have gave her an ultimatum to wear something specific or Else I Will Leave her. Also she believes that I have said that she is not pretty enough for me and that is why I left. I know she has based her understanding on emotions instead of facts. As bad as this is she had told her son that was the reason and other people. This is spreading lies about me. I know she believes it is the truth. I tell her that I Would never say something like that. It is not me at all. But her mind Cannot be changed. Wow this is tough. So I try to say something like that is how she had seen the situation. We go over this a few times and it is just impossible and pretty heartbreaking for me that she has this understanding. I am struggling with how to deal with / accept this. What is best to do with this?

[SaltyDawg]

AM,

I must apologize for taking a few days to respond.

Now to address some more of your concerns that you mentioned...

I have read a lot in the book I mentioned and already used the validation part with good success.

pwBPD are validation junkies, they thrive on it and need an excessive amount, my wife has freely admitted to it, since it is not a specific BPD symptom; however, it is a trait.


I agree that the pregnancy makes things more fragile. I am a very empathetic person and I already know what I did with the NC. I feel very bad about it as is. I did the best I could in a situation I did not quite understand.

Thank you for taking ownership of this.  Please be mindful of how a pwBPD thinks, all emotions are multiplied, more so than being a HSP that you mentioned yourself being, multiply what she is feeling by at least 3 if not more of what you might be feeling if you were to do a role reversal.


I take it Easy when she accuses me of NPD etc. as I know pretty well who I am. I am a actually a Highly sensitive person (HSP). But I know I should not say she has BPD but I feel like I am keeping it from her. 

I felt the same way; however, I only brought it up when the symptoms became too severe and she knew something was wrong, but didn't know what it was.  Unfortunately her therapist dropped the ball and did not make a diagnosis, nor did she indicate she had the symptoms, even though my wife is aware of each individual symptom, but refuses to connect the dots.  My wife still denies she has it, even though the symptoms are present.  Only bring this up indirectly if she becomes suicidal, does self-harm that draws blood, other severe symptom where she is in front of a clinician, and then pull the clinician aside and express your concerns so the clincian can do a proper evaluation - have the clinician make the diagnosis, not you.


I am Reading books and writing in here, but not able to tell her about it. I Will look more into the books you mention.

Now is the best time to read the books, before the baby comes your way.  Learn all you can, and how to manage being with a pwBPD.  Once you have finished those books, let me know what specific areas you are looking at and I will do my best to point you in a good direction to gain more knowledge.  This site also has a lot of good knowledge too.


As you said and as I have read I must not validate the invalid. Yesterday I found out the hardest part. She believes that I have gave her an ultimatum to wear something specific or Else I Will Leave her. Also she believes that I have said that she is not pretty enough for me and that is why I left. I know she has based her understanding on emotions instead of facts. As bad as this is she had told her son that was the reason and other people. This is spreading lies about me. I know she believes it is the truth. I tell her that I Would never say something like that. It is not me at all. But her mind Cannot be changed. Wow this is tough. So I try to say something like that is how she had seen the situation. We go over this a few times and it is just impossible and pretty heartbreaking for me that she has this understanding. I am struggling with how to deal with / accept this. What is best to do with this?

Regarding her mentioning about you wanting her to wear something specific - even though you may not have said that - think back to the timeframe she says you said this.  Was there a function (wedding, funeral, concert, etc.) where you guys need to dress up?  Perhaps you said something innocent like could you wear something nicer without giving it a second thought?  I am trying to understand how she would come up with this, as it is usually based on some really obscure perception of her 'truth'.  If this is the case in her mind not wearing a better dress could have morphed into not being pretty enough.  Just try to understand where her perception is coming from even if it seems to be a bit irrational.

You don't need to accept her version of the facts, which is a false narrative, so you should not validate the invalid.  However, the way she feels about this, is her version of her truth, and as they are feelings (unsupported by the facts), you can validate her feelings.

How to deal with this?  Validate her feelings.  Perhaps say something along the lines of "Babe, I know you feel that I said you were not pretty enough for me and you believe that I left you after you felt that I wanted you to wear something specific [nicer?].  I do not specifically recall saying either of those things as I thought you were pretty and only wanted you to enhance your beauty even more [complimentary way if you are translating].  I think you are beautiful and[/or] cute [only if true in your heart], especially as you are going to be the mother of our child.".  Wait for a reaction, and perhaps add some genuine compliments on her looks and or clothing that she is wearing.  Whatever you say must be genuine and heartfelt, as both of you guys are HSP's she will be able to tell if you are not.

For the time being, ignore the facts, the false narrative that she believes to be true, as she is still painting you black.  Once you meet up with her friends/acquaintances that have been tainted with her false narrative.  Gently explain that this is not true, and you think she is [the same thing you told her from the above paragraph].  That way if it gets back to her, it will only reinforce the words that you have spoken to her first.

What are your thoughts on this?  Am I understanding your intent correctly?  If not, please let me know.  By all means ask more questions.

Take care.

SD

[Anonymous_male]

Thank you so much for your thoughts SD. I hope you had a Nice holiday period and of course No need to apologize. I am grateful for your reply. I Will take some time to reflect on things.

Thanks

[Myers75]

Its really incredible how much similarities is there in every post I read here with BPD girl I am delaing with still. Your situation is similar to mine, she also wanted a child but I stayed solid.

My advice would be if you are able to take care of the child financially if it is really yours. Regarding the relationship. Stay away as far as possible.