Why say these things?

[Depression = 72% of members]

In a conversation, BPD mother mentions that she bought some "very expensive" pajamas". Perhaps she was trying to get me into an argument over her spending but I didn't react. Discussions with her over it are useless. Also though - this isn't unusual for her to say or do. She only buys expensive items.

But why say it? I think she's so narcisistic that she has to let people know that she has expensive items? As if anyone cares how much her sleepwear costs?

I think it's fine to have nice things if one can afford them (she's over spending) and also being in assisted living- if someone is in pajamas a lot of the time, it makes sense to want to have something nice to wear. I think there's other ways to say it- like "I bought some pretty pajamas to wear".

She'll say- the person who cuts her hair gave her a "special haircut" rather than she "got a new hairstyle" and likes it.

So there it is- "special" haircut, "very expensive", whatever she has- it's somehow exclusive in some way.

I understand wanting to go all out for some things if you can and want to do that. here's just something about how she speaks about this that has to set her above in some way.  Also, the more trouble someone goes to to do something for her, the more satisfaction she seems to have with it (temporarily). The main concern I have for her spending is that she's on a fixed income and most people in her situation would seem concerned too. She doesn't.

This doesn't affect me personally. It's more that when I speak to her, the conversations seem creepy to me.

[Notwendy]

In a conversation, BPD mother mentions that she bought some "very expensive" pajamas". Perhaps she was trying to get me into an argument over her spending but I didn't react. Discussions with her over it are useless. Also though - this isn't unusual for her to say or do. She only buys expensive items.

But why say it? I think she's so narcisistic that she has to let people know that she has expensive items? As if anyone cares how much her sleepwear costs?

I think it's fine to have nice things if one can afford them (she's over spending) and also being in assisted living- if someone is in pajamas a lot of the time, it makes sense to want to have something nice to wear. I think there's other ways to say it- like "I bought some pretty pajamas to wear".

She'll say- the person who cuts her hair gave her a "special haircut" rather than she "got a new hairstyle" and likes it.

So there it is- "special" haircut, "very expensive", whatever she has- it's somehow exclusive in some way.

I understand wanting to go all out for some things if you can and want to do that. here's just something about how she speaks about this that has to set her above in some way.  Also, the more trouble someone goes to to do something for her, the more satisfaction she seems to have with it (temporarily). The main concern I have for her spending is that she's on a fixed income and most people in her situation would seem concerned too. She doesn't.

This doesn't affect me personally. It's more that when I speak to her, the conversations seem creepy to me.

[zachira]

What you are describing with your mother, sounds so much like many family members and people I know who are extremely narcissistic. You have said many times that your mother is narcissistic in addition to having BPD. It is like your mother is your complete opposite. You are very compassionate and empathetic, something your mother is unable to do, so she compensates for it by being focused on material things and getting people to wait on her. Of course, her behaviors are very puzzling to you, as you are not like her. Some people are lucky to be born into a family in which they feel understood and identify with most of their family members. Some of us feel like we do not belong. What about your father? He seems to have been a caring person, and perhaps he cared too much about making your mother happy. 

[Notwendy]

I think my father didn't know any better. While BPD mother's family is not extremely wealthy- but they are financially better off than my father's family. Not by inherited wealth- by working in businesses that did well. My mother's FOO does have a narcisistic streak but not to the point of being toxic like hers. They are able to have succesful and productive lives and families.

I think part of this is BPD mother's compensating for not having accomplished something on her own. By contrast, her family members have careers. Her family members can buy expensive things- but with their own earnings. In my mother's era, women were "housewives". I think that is fine- I have both worked outside the home and as a stay at home mother. Raising kids and taking care of the house is a form of work. BPD mother didn't do that either and so has not experienced accomplishment from her own efforts.

When she threatened divorce, she'd mention that alimony was determined according to the lifestyle the wife is accustomed to. But what if the lifestyle she's accustomed to was excessive? They never divorced but I wondered about that. I understand that if a spouse lives in a nice house, one can't leave the spouse homeless, but my mother lives "above" my father's standard of living for himself.

Dad grew up with a family on a modest income. Dad went to college and became successful in a career. This is why I think he didn't know any better- he assumed her level of spending is what was expected of him. I think he wanted to make her happy and assumed this is what he needed to do.

[Pook075]

I kind of see it a different way.  "Expensive" is relative- I'm in a relationship with someone in the Philippines and she sees the average $50 purchase in the US as expensive because that's about her weekly living expenses (food, utilities, transportation, etc.).  So when she tells me, "This was so expensive...." she's actually saying that in a humble way, like she doesn't deserve a purchase on that level.

Whenever my mom used to tell me something she bought me was really expensive, she was really saying, "This is quality that's not easily replaced, so you better take good care of it."  So that's my personal definition- something that should be valued and cherished.

For your mom, she's towards the end and she wants some luxurious stuff to lounge around in.  Good for her, I hope she goes nuts, LoL.  Try not to let that bother you or take it in a negative way.  My dad was just the opposite up until his passing- I'd beg him to spend money on basic things!  His bed was probably 15 years old and worn down to almost nothing; it was like pulling teeth to get him to spend some cash on himself.

[Notwendy]

It’s not relative  - she prefers top of the line. My father  went into debt over her spending. She took out a home equity loan and spent down the equity of the house and we had to move her before the bank repossessed it. It’s been an ongoing issue with her and a worry for her family.

It concerns us because her overspending is impacting her ability to afford her needs. Dad left her a lot of money and she’s spent most of it.

[Notwendy]

It’s not relative  - she prefers top of the line. My father  went into debt over her spending. She took out a home equity loan and spent down the equity of the house and we had to move her before the bank repossessed it. It’s been an ongoing issue with her and a worry for her family.

It concerns us because her overspending is impacting her ability to afford her needs. Dad left her a lot of money and she’s spent most of it.

[Methuen]

In a conversation, BPD mother mentions that she bought some "very expensive" pajamas". Perhaps she was trying to get me into an argument over her spending but I didn't react. Discussions with her over it are useless.

I think you nailed it.  She knows you believe she has an overspending problem.  She likes spending.  Being narcissistic, she also likes attention.  So drawing you into a conversation about her spending is one way of getting your attention.  If it happens to lead to conflict where she can get mad, that will also fill her need to feel powerful or in control as the mother.  Just a theory, and maybe it doesn't hold water for your situation.

I can only speak for myself in what I'm about to say next, but my mom is most comfortable when she's around negativity and conflict, and drama and crisis.  If life is going along too smoothly for her, she has to create a scene, or make a Mount Everest of a molehill.  I think our moms will say these things ("very expensive pajamas") to get our attention and draw us into their drama, and their conflict zone.  When I was young, and before I understood BPD, I think I always got drawn in because I would apply logic, rational thinking and analysis to any conversation. (Eg.  This would drive my mom crazy because I now understand her brain only operates on an emotional level and probably isn't even wired up for rational thinking.  So when we try to discuss things rationally (like the value of balancing needs and wants - expensive pajamas - with managing money), she would feel invalidated, and respond emotionally.  Rational and emotional, is kind of like "oil and water" to my way of thinking.  There's no integration or "wisemind" for a pwBPD. 

My mom (when she could still do her own shopping) would always make a BIG point out of telling me my birthday or Christmas gift was "really expensive".  It wasn't.  And anyways, who tells someone they bought them an "expensive" gift? 

Their fixation over "expensive" is interesting.

[zanyapple]

My uBPD mother is not into high-end items, but she always does want to one up everyone else in a different way. For example, growing up, she always wanted me to be the smartest (not in terms of grades), most polite, etc. amongst all my cousins.

Oddly, she was wasn’t too concerned about my grades (because they were always great, but she didn’t care), but she was more concerned about my physical look, how I presented myself in front of others, how I walked, how I talked, and how others perceived me.

When I talk to them, my words had to be carefully chosen and I must not cause any sort of embarrassment to her. It sucked because I was a kid and I wanted to be myself and have fun with them. I can’t tell you how many times she became physically violent just because I said something to a family member or a neighbor that I apparently wasn’t supposed to say, but how was I supposed to know as a small child? It wasn’t even like I said anything offensive. It was small things like, “I don’t like school anymore”.

Now that I’ve become a mother, I realized that kids are just kids. So looking back, my mother had unrealistic expectations from me because she expected me to be able to know what to say and what not to say.

I believe the book “Walking on Eggshells” mentioned that with BPD, narcissism is typically a comorbidity.

[Notwendy]

Zanyapple- me too- there was a focus on us kids doing well as a reflection on her. And the opposite- if we didn't - she took it as a personal afront to her.

Methuen, I think you are correct that the issues with money are a form of her feeling in control and the constant drama and crisis is an aspect to any kind of relationship with her. There's elements of entitlement, defiance, and vindictiveness to her actions.

BPD uses money as a form of control- and since we don't want her money, she can't control us in that way. However, if she creates a financial crisis, it's another form of control. She did this with the home equity loan where we had to come move her on short notice.

In assisted living where there was the potential for her to be stable- it's still a series of crisis- conflict with the nursing staff, medical issues both due to her age and non compliance. The financial chaos is just one form of creating chaos and crisis too.

What I have decided (and it decreases the stress for me) is to not engage in discussions with her over this and also to accept that she's going to do whatever and efforts on our part to intervene are futile. All they do is become more drama and power for her.

[zachira]

I believe Methuen hit the nail on the head about disordered people looking for ways to engage in drama and conflict. It seems that many disordered people feel so overwhelmed about how they feel inside that they create what is going on inside of them in the outside world.

Notwendy,
You are on to your mother and wise to not comment on your mother's spending.  Your mother knows what bothers you and uses that to upset you, so she does not have to deal with her feelings. Knowing why your mother does this, does not take away from how much it hurts to be treated like this by a mother who is supposed to have unconditional love for her children.

[Methuen]

What I have decided (and it decreases the stress for me) is to not engage in discussions with her over this and also to accept that she's going to do whatever and efforts on our part to intervene are futile.

Me too. With my mom, her need for control centers around her "independence" (or perception of it), and staying in her own home without home care services.  She has been going blind in one eye because she cancelled services to put multiple daily drops in her eyes.  She doesn't get it into her eye because of her Parkinson's shaking.  We've all seen it running down the side of her cheek (including home care who watched while she "proved" she could do it).  Well she couldn't because she can't control the shaking.  There it is running down her cheek and she's screaming that it went in.  Now she is almost blind in that eye. 

It's so irrational.  Who chooses blindness instead of accepting "help" with drops so you can keep your vision?  Most people would be so grateful for the help!

She blames the medicine for her loss of vision.  It's poor quality medicine.

When we and our kids were out of the country on a recent vacation, she cancelled home care services (home care had suggested the daily safety checks and told me they would take the push back).

It is impossible to rationalize with a disordered person.  I still care about her, but I can't be emotionally invested in her well-being anymore. 

What we have decided, like you, is to disengage completely in these things.  She goes blind.  It was preventable, but she chose it.  She has a fall or a stroke while we are out of the country, and isn't found by anyone for a spell of time, also her doing.  We are not coming home from our trip early to take care of her.

It's painful to observe someone else's self-destructive choices, but if we want to avoid the conflict and drama with a disordered person, there is no other choice but to let natural consequences play out according to the decisions they have made.

In the case of your mom's finances, she fills some need by spending money on herself.  It fits the "engage in impulsive self -destructive behavior" criteria from DSM.  That's just the disease.

In my mom's case (for that criteria), she became a compulsive eater when she was young, but she couldn't stand her obesity, so then she became an anorexic.  Talk about extremes. 

It's just crazy, and it sucks that we all have to deal with the downstream effects of this, including the destroyed relationship with the BPD person, and all the ensuing chaos. 

But we do have this forum, which is a community of people who "get it".  I'm eternally grateful.

So to answer the question "why do they say these things?", it's to draw us into their chaos.  They NEED chaos and conflict and they want us to be a part of that.  That's my take. Our lesson, is to learn not to get drawn into it. But it's hard when we care, to step away and let them slowly and painfully destroy themselves through their choices.

[Notwendy]

BPD does want home health and to have medical care- but then she engages in conflict with the home health and the medical providers. She got good care at the nursing home facility but as you know, she wanted to go back to her assisted living. Since then, her health has gotten worse, because the care and supervision is not as high level as she got at the skilled nursing.

However, there at the skilled nursing, she wasn't "special". At the AL, she has choices. For instance she won't see the dentist at the AL- she has to go to her own dentist a 45 minute drive away. Then she has to hire a helper to drive her and be with her there. Same for her hairdresser, also 45 minutes away even though there's a beauty parlor at the AL and one around the corner. The maximum of difficulty for her needs.

Then she complains about how difficult it is to get to her appointments and what a struggle it is. I would understand if she didn't like the hair cut or the dentist there- but she won't even try them because she's decided already that they aren't good enough. We moved her to AL because we thought it would be easier for her with the resources right there but I now know that taking care of one issue and drama isn't the solution because the drama is part of it.

So in a way she has gotten what she wants by making me POA because she needs assistance with getting her tax info together and when she's been sick- to keep up with her bills from her account and I am the only person who can access these with a POA. The idea of letting her face the consequences of her behavior doesn't quite work well with an elderly mentally ill and still "legally competent" adult. As you have seen, the best plans can be hijacked by her insisting on being self directed and sabotaging them.

So by making me POA, I am more involved with her than I would ordinarily be- and still ineffective at getting her to comply with any plan  I do think her statement about the expensive pajamas was like a defiant child and a way of being in control. But I can back off the discussions with her.

[Mommydoc]

It must be incredibly frustrating to be POA for your mom, given her need to control everything!   Her need to buy “expensive” things and be treated “special” is one of the way she self- validates herself and yet it is destructive overall.   You are in a no win situation, given that she is deemed “mentally competent”. 

It's painful to observe someone else's self-destructive choices, but if we want to avoid the conflict and drama with a disordered person, there is no other choice but to let natural consequences play out according to the decisions they have made. In the case of your mom's finances, she fills some need by spending money on herself.  It fits the "engage in impulsive self -destructive behavior" criteria from DSM.  That's just the disease.

Methuen has nailed it.  Radical Acceptance of the disease and allowing them to experience the consequences is so hard when we care about their well being.  But it is the only healthy way to approach it.   

[TelHill]

Hi Notwendy,

I can commiserate about this. My mom feels a need to claim high status though in her culture it was to keep an extremely clean home, be quiet,  and be plain (though clean)  with clothing and grooming.  Showing off is tolerable to others when you're ten but pointless over the age of 21. It's annoying.

Maybe you mentioned this somewhere but was it her desire to live with you as a back-up plan when she was unable to stay in her home? I remember she burned through her assets and you had to sell her home so she wouldn't lose it and be able to be in assisted living.

Is she spending to deplete her savings and move into your home? My mother is a wheeler-dealer and would definitely do something along those lines. Sorry if you mentioned this before. You are doing so much for her. Am really sorry you're getting this response in return. It's terrible.

[TelHill]

My father tied my mother's hands with spending and driving, so no access to those things. He didn't trust her for good reason. Too bad he wasn't so diligent protecting me from abuse from her and my sibling.

My mother creates drama to find an outlet for her rage and to pass it onto me by goading me into a fight. It's my fault and I'm a bad child as she's always known. It's another reason not to buy into (sorry for the pun) her show off ways.  Let her spin around by herself.

My crazy neighbor is like this. She would speak to me only to get $$ from me for household problems which she caused or to show off for remodeling jobs or cars. It was too much drama and craziness. I haven't spoken to her in 2 years.     She can easily send a letter to me about household damages I've caused. One hour of an attorney's time to compose the letter would pay off. This is the correct/legal way to resolve these many issues & the high $$$$ she claims. I'm still waiting on that letter after all this time!

[Notwendy]

My mother creates drama to find an outlet for her rage and to pass it onto me by goading me into a fight. It's my fault and I'm a bad child as she's always known. It's another reason not to buy into (sorry for the pun) her show off ways.  Let her spin around by herself.

Mine does this too.

I think a motive for my mother's spending is that it meets an emotional need for her- like an addiction.

I think there's both a vindictive and validation element to this. Part of her rages were destructive with property- like she'd break things or throw them out. I think in a way, she is doing this with the finances.

Validation- when people make an effort on her behalf- this feels validating to her, and meets a need. Beyond needing someone to do something for her if she can't do it herself- she wants the person's actions and efforts- the act itself.

I don't think she expects to move into my house, but she has wanted to move near me and this may be part of her motive.

The difference here is "want" or "need" which is blurred with BPD mother. My father had planned well enough that their finances would be sufficient if managed reasonably- so there was not a financial need. However, her emotional needs are huge. Because she didn't have financial need- family has been less involved with her. When she got herself in the situation with needing to sell the house- family got more involved to assist her- and she has a need for that.

So creating a situation where she's in need- whether it's someone doing something for her or a financial need- meets a emotional need. It's an inverse situation.

[SweetSass]

“BPD uses money as a form of control- and since we don't want her money, she can't control us in that way. However, if she creates a financial crisis, it's another form of control.”

My mother is very Bpd & Npd.  She is completely broke and this was done intentionally, as a form of control.

As a young girl, I overheard her scheme to my Npd father that if they work hard and save then I would just take their hard-earned money and place them in a home and get off the hook.  Why do that?

Instead my mother reasoned that by intentionally having no money at retirement, then I MUST take them in, thereby scoring free housing and bankrolling their retirement and best of all—no retirement or nursing home.

Over the years, I would have explosive arguments with my parents to be financially responsible bc I will not be their free 24/7 caretaker/slave bc they intentionally lived beyond their means and spent lavishly in order to trap me.

Sure enough, i wisely moved 1k miles away and went LC with my parents: they still demanded that they move in with me!

They are in their late 70s.  They lost their house.  They are deep in debt.  No long term life insurance.  No investments, no pensions.

I had no choice but go NC when they started harassing me that I am responsible for them and that I need to fix the situation.

Money is very much about control.

[Notwendy]

SweetSass-

I do think this is part of BPD mother's motives. When my father was ill, it seemed I was the expected one to be my parents' caregiver. Truly, I was glad to help them and was assisting them. I went to stay with them for a short while.  I had not stayed in their home alone in decades- probably since I was in college- and so was not aware of BPD mother's current behavior at the time. I had hope perhaps things had gotten better for them.

What I experienced in terms of emotional and verbal abuse was a shock. I had seen this before as a kid but mostly visted with my family recently so BPD mother kept things in check. But being alone with BPD mother when nobody else is looking was shocking. I even called social services on behalf of my elderly father but since staying with her was his choice and he was legally competent, there was nothing I could do.

I backed off and my parents were angry at me and BPD mother has been angry at me. I don't live near her. She has made many attempts to "move near me" that I have not agreed to. So I do think this is a form of getting herself into a situation to force the issue.

I am grateful that my father was able to obtain a pension plan that pays her a montly income. The issue is her spending exceeds it. She may not be able to afford the nice room she has in her assisted living. I am already looking at what her essential needs are and a possible budget with her income. It's a tight squeeze.

BPD mother has used money as a form of control. I do think her situation has gotten me more involved with her- more than I would have ordinarily- because I am the person she appointed as power of attorney and she needs assistance with some things. Still she's considered "legally competent" and so has control over her decisions for now. I did an initial consultation with an elder care attorney about the situation a while back. Her family and I have pointed out a "this is what happens if your spending continues" plan for her.

If she does spend all her savings, I will make a case for her being a danger to herself with her reckless spending. This is not an occasional indulgence. It's a literal burning of her savings - and we have the bank records to show it. I also have sent my power of attorney to her credit cards and will cut them off if she isn't able to pay her bills. I also sent copies of her bank records to her family so they are aware and they want to intervene too if necessary.

[zachira]

Can you get the spending amounts allowed on your mother's credit cards reduced?

[Notwendy]

Yes, I can do that. It's actually only been since this year that I have had access to her financial info. She kept it hidden from me and it's obvious why. If there's a silver lining to her financial situation- it's that she can't accuse us of wanting her money - we weren't after it anyway but now there's not much of it.

The default assumption of the courts in her area if adult children take an elderly parent who has resources and is considered mentally competent to court to attempt financial control is that the children are up to no good. We didn't have a chance of doing this if she had resources and she could accuse us of financial elder abuse. However, if it came to that, I think the judge would agree that she's been irresponsible. There's no evidence that her children have taken even one penny out of her bank account and we have not.

I don't want to go the legal route and I don't think she does either, but she's endangering herself, there is evidence of this. Her choice will be to cooperate with her family and let us manage her resources or we take legal action somehow.

[zachira]

You are doing a good job of looking at all the ways to keep your mother from spending everything she has. I am wondering if the credit card companies will help you out in setting limits on your mother's spending by reducing her credit.

[Notwendy]

They will. The caveat is that she's the primary card holder. Whatever I do- she can call them and undo. This is an ongoing issue- we propose a plan, she agrees. Then changes her mind, and undoes it. To officially take charge of her finances so she has no say in them would require me taking her to court. I'd like to avoid it if possible. It's almost not even worth the process as she's already done so much financial damage to herself. I also think she'd pull herself together in front of the judge and appear competent.

She is elderly and dependent but insists on her own self direction and undoes what people do for her. I think it's important for elderly people to have as much autonomy as possible but if someone is dependent on other people- they'd at least have to cooperate with them.

So back to her "nice things"- I don't think any of her family has an issue with her having something nice to wear and her income is sufficient to allow for some of that. We can't gift her things because she usually finds something wrong with it if we do and cash gifts are enabling so we won't do that. The irony of BPD mother's behavior is that if only she could cooperate- it would be better for her but her need for control overrides attempts to assist her. She has agreed to let me help her come up with a budget but I know that's her way of having me "do something for her". My expectations are low but all anyone can do is try.

[zachira]

The situation with your mother is very sad, and you are doing everything you can to help her while practicing safe care and boundaries. Thank you for sharing as this helps others in similar situations with an elderly mother with BPD. I tried to get some control of my mother's finances when she was making some bad decisions and her attorney explained to me pretty much what you had said here about your mother still considered competent to continue to make her own decisions. So hard to watch yet perhaps even harder to not be involved when this is our mother who is elderly and in deteriorating health.

[TelHill]

When my father was ill, it seemed I was the expected one to be my parents' caregiver. Truly, I was glad to help them and was assisting them. I went to stay with them for a short while.  I had not stayed in their home alone in decades- probably since I was in college- and so was not aware of BPD mother's current behavior at the time. I had hope perhaps things had gotten better for them.

I had the same experience, notwendy. It was reinforced by a psychologist I was seeing who thought at times bpdMom had gotten over her problems or that I was the problem with enmeshment with mom. Or I was the problem by not getting over the past. I wanted a loving mother.

What I experienced in terms of emotional and verbal abuse was a shock. I had seen this before as a kid but mostly visted with my family recently so BPD mother kept things in check. But being alone with BPD mother when nobody else is looking was shocking.

Same here. Every day was an abusive scream fest from her. She made it clear she went into my room to rummage through my belongings. She woke me up once at 2am by moving my mattress from side to side. I said nothing to her. I told my father who laughed and said don't make a big deal of it.

I backed off and my parents were angry at me and BPD mother has been angry at me. I don't live near her.

Yes, same here. I was on the fast track to deep depression and agoraphobia. I had my npd brother to contend with at the time who was groomed by mom to bully me. He promised to help and didn't. He's passive aggressive by promising never intending to make good on promises . He ridiculed me when I was upset. They are  two heavy weights of abuse, one direct and one silent, I would have had to carry.

My mom isn't a financial overspender, but an emotional one. She used up the emotional capital I willingly gave towards her care. My bank is empty. It can't be replenished.

Thanks, notwendy, for posting these issues. I know many daughters of a bpd mother, including me, have a bpd milestone around our neck - it feels that way - along with the profound difficulty and anguish of caregiving an elderly parent.

[Notwendy]

Every day was an abusive scream fest from her. She made it clear she went into my room to rummage through my belongings. She woke me up once at 2am by moving my mattress from side to side.

I was over the past- I assumed things were better with my parents but actually since we visited as a family, BPD mother was holding it together as much as possible. It wasn't easy- she still had her BPD behavior but also she wasn't running around the house screaming. We'd have left if she was.

I was all in and ready to help with my parents. I spent a little over a week with them mostly alone in the house with BPD mother. Then I went home and she called to say Dad was in dire straits and I rushed back to find the home health care nurse there taking care of things. BPD mother wanted me there. However it didn't seem to register to my parents that I had arranged child care to come help them and needed to get back home. What about my own kids? Also, my parents never changed out the bed I had when I was a kid, and after sleeping in a small bed with a rock hard mattress for days, and BPD mother screaming at all hours, I needed to go home and sleep in my own bed. But they seemed oblivious to if I slept or not.

There was no routine. BPD mother slept wenever, got up whenever, grazed whenever. If there was anything to eat- it's because I went out to get the food and cook it. I didn't mind doing that- but it was chaotic. BPD mother would complain that I still had some stuff from college in their basement so I began carrying it out to the car and she ran after me screaming "don't you dare take anything out of my basement".

When I got home, I was so shaken up. I had forgotten the past, and forgiven the past. But then after that, I started to remember and realized that growing up, we were afraid of my BPDmother and in ways we still are.

On the other hand, she's also pitiful and unhappy and yet, she seems to have always been that way, even when she was younger and  my father put all he had at her feet. I feel sad for her but if someone is empathetic, she will manipulate them. She's both waify and  wiley.

[EyesUp]

@NotWendy,

This is a good topic. I've puzzled about this too, here's my $0.02...

I became so accustomed to being accused of whatever my pwBPD was feeling (accusations are confessions...), that I came to take pretty much everything that's said with a boulder of salt.

The upside of this is that when my pwBPD says something like your mom's comments, my default is to assume that she's not actually saying it for me - it's for her.  

I know this isn't always the case, or a magic bullet - but it can be instructive.

e.g., when my uBPDxw says that a, b, or c is "expensive" or "special" I default to the idea that she says it because it's important to her - it's not necessarily intended for me in any particular way. It's just her way of framing things in a way that's somehow relevant or comfortable for her - she needs to reinforce her own perception of... whatever.

I arrived at this after sitting with similar feelings to what you posted about your mom.  "Why does she always...." and eventually arriving at the conclusion that what my uBPDxw says is more for her than for me. i.e., "expensive" and "special" are just her way of saying what she did was good.  

Do you feel like your mother is seeking agreement or acknowledgement for these statements?  Or do they just seem to get peppered in and roll by in the story?

[TelHill]

e.g., when my uBPDxw says that a, b, or c is "expensive" or "special" I default to the idea that she says it because it's important to her - it's not necessarily intended for me in any particular way. It's just her way of framing things in a way that's somehow relevant or comfortable for her - she needs to reinforce her own perception of... whatever.

It may be what role you play in your FOO to the pwBPD and  if you are the only one listening or there are others -- the audience she's playing to.  I'm the scapegoat (daughter) and her intent is to bully, manipulate and abuse me to feel better about herself.

There's an intimate familial bond I have with my mother that's not the same as I had with my probably Cluster B late ex husband. I wanted our break to be permanent. I did have a connection to him due to our marriage being a sacrament in my religion. But that's much weaker than what I have with my mother. It doesn't come close.

It hurts to the bone to be put down on a constant basis by bpdMom when near her. The why x, y, z I think  is -- why are you hurting me, why are you making life difficult, why are you treating me like garbage.

Reframing doesn't help me. (It may help others though). Reframing is numbing and denying the truth in my situation. It helps more to accept she has been difficult all my life, it's not changing and I choose to endure the suffering she causes since I want to help her live in dignity in her very old age of 90.

[Turkish]

She wants to be valued and special because at her core she feels she doesn't deserve it (but does)?

[Notwendy]

Yes, I think it's part her being valued and also defiance- I am concerned about her financial irresponsibility so it's her defiance and control.

But for her to feel valued- she has to have things be expensive- and I don't think there's anything wrong with having these things- if someone can afford it, or it's a special thing to them, or they have value features. I also think it's part my issue from the income differences in my own FOO. It seemed that Dad did without, so she could have what she wanted - but to the point that he was stressed over money.

My mother didn't seem to have any regard for this. I could see the stress on my father- didn't she care what her spending was doing to him? I know it was his place to put a stop to it if he wanted to, but I thought it was unfair and disrespectful to do this to one's spouse. But with her NPD traits, she doesn't seem to have empathy. She doesn't care.  Dad must have sacrificed to save that money she's being irresponsible with.

I think cost is related to if she feels valued. If it's not expensive, she doesn't feel valued. But not everything has to be expensive to be good or useful. My sense of self doesn't change according to what I buy but I think for my mother it's connected.

As Tell Hill mentioned- the relationship with a disordered spouse and a parent has similarities but also differences. I have read though that a long term abusive relationship can have similar affects as child abuse.  So I think the potential to feel hurt by their remarks is there but in a different way. I think it depends on the connection. I felt more connected to my father so if he was angry- that was difficult. I can reframe my mother's comments much of the time but sometimes she will say or do something that feels hurtful.

[WildWest]

My mom and brother - both undiagnosed- do this a lot. For my mom it’s a lot of people saying and doing normal things that she interprets as special for her and she points it out constantly. It’s an obvious overcompensation.

Brother does the same but on steroids, and lots of focus on money. He tells me how much he makes, how much his cars cost, what high-end brands he buys. But he’s not making a ton of money and he’s lost his job several times for BPD behavior. He tells us everybody thinks he’s smart or talented or special. He once told us he’s “basically a doctor” because he started a PhD program that he dropped out of.

So much compensation and delusion that I’ve learned to just take it in and move on.