Well looks like divorce is finally happening Pt. 2

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Dollars to donuts most professionals involved in your divorce are rubber stamping their way through this part. Most couples at this stage are on tilt. This is not new or different or outrageous.

Some lawyers will see bags of cash.

Most will be waiting for the two of you to settle down, if you can.

They might do backroom dealing where they say things about your temperament.

When your stuff grabs the attention of "courts" is when/if this goes on for a while and one or both parents can't or won't agree on things or follow simple orders, especially when things impact kids.

You two are ending a contract. It's a bit messy, yes, but they see that all the time.

Judges look at people like us and see a couple of knuckleheads who can't do what's best for the kids. They wonder why anyone in his or her right mind would let, much less want, a total stranger to make decisions about the well-being of the kids. Unless there is documentation to show that something or someone is genuinely harming the kids.

What is your lawyer saying about any of this?

Ideally, you have someone saying this is all smoke and no fire. If there's anything to be concerned about, it should be straightforward.

I asked my lawyer to look at stuff and let me know what if anything I should be concerned about. Our ratio was about 10:1 of nothingburger to something.

All of her allegations are garbage.  She's pissed she lost the first round.   She's BPD and decided she needs a "fresh" start.  Well that means financially bankrupting us.  She has defaulted on all kinds of debt and Subject to lawsuits, she spends on impulse and emotion,  hates everyone, her family my family, friends.  If we just met it's a matter of time before she finds something to hate you for.  She's getting worse.  It used to just be kicking and screaming toddler tantrums,  now it's hey let's spend everything we have and destroy our stability in our mid 40s.  She feels entitled to her "fresh" start with HER kids, and I'm being left behind when in reality it's her leaving the family.  The kids don't deserve to be moved around every 6 months to a year and starting over because of irresponsible parenting.  They need stability.  She had me convinced I was a narcissist.   I went and saw my counselor, she laughed and told me no way, that I'm not.  She's going scorched earth nuts

[mikejones75093]

Dollars to donuts most professionals involved in your divorce are rubber stamping their way through this part. Most couples at this stage are on tilt. This is not new or different or outrageous.

Some lawyers will see bags of cash.

Most will be waiting for the two of you to settle down, if you can.

They might do backroom dealing where they say things about your temperament.

When your stuff grabs the attention of "courts" is when/if this goes on for a while and one or both parents can't or won't agree on things or follow simple orders, especially when things impact kids.

You two are ending a contract. It's a bit messy, yes, but they see that all the time.

Judges look at people like us and see a couple of knuckleheads who can't do what's best for the kids. They wonder why anyone in his or her right mind would let, much less want, a total stranger to make decisions about the well-being of the kids. Unless there is documentation to show that something or someone is genuinely harming the kids.

What is your lawyer saying about any of this?

Ideally, you have someone saying this is all smoke and no fire. If there's anything to be concerned about, it should be straightforward.

I asked my lawyer to look at stuff and let me know what if anything I should be concerned about. Our ratio was about 10:1 of nothingburger to something.

All of her allegations are garbage.  She's pissed she lost the first round.   She's BPD and decided she needs a "fresh" start.  Well that means financially bankrupting us.  She has defaulted on all kinds of debt and Subject to lawsuits, she spends on impulse and emotion,  hates everyone, her family my family, friends.  If we just met it's a matter of time before she finds something to hate you for.  She's getting worse.  It used to just be kicking and screaming toddler tantrums,  now it's hey let's spend everything we have and destroy our stability in our mid 40s.  She feels entitled to her "fresh" start with HER kids, and I'm being left behind when in reality it's her leaving the family.  The kids don't deserve to be moved around every 6 months to a year and starting over because of irresponsible parenting.  They need stability.  She had me convinced I was a narcissist.   I went and saw my counselor, she laughed and told me no way, that I'm not.  She's going scorched earth nuts

[ForeverDad]

Fact:  She just notified your employer of her allegations.
Fact (we assume):  Until now your employer has had no involvement in your marriage or your parenting.

Legally it may be unethical or worse for her to involve your employer in your personal life, especially without substantiated evidence.  Her actions could result in your employer deciding to let you go.  Much depends on the terms and type of your employment.  Your lawyer should be able to give legal advice on how to respond to this.

My lawyer told me of a case years before where the father was looking good for custody.  He thoughtlessly decided to make copies of their Custody Evaluation and went around the neighborhood putting them under all the cars' windshields.  He had sabotaged himself and lost hope for custody.

How much her painting you black to your employer may backfire on her, we can't say from here.  Listen to your local legal advice.  Does the current order in place limit her from exacerbating the sensitive status quo?  At the least your lawyer needs to warn her lawyer to keep her under restraint.

Her seeking you to pay her legal fees while she earns more than you doesn't make sense from a legal standpoint.  Both of you would be required to report your incomes to the court when the topic of child support is addressed.  In any case she would have to declare her assets at some point in the divorce, often that is later toward the end of the process.

[mikejones75093]

Fact:  She just notified your employer of her allegations.
Fact (we assume):  Until now your employer has had no involvement in your marriage or your parenting.

Legally it may be unethical or worse for her to involve your employer in your personal life, especially without substantiated evidence.  Her actions could result in your employer deciding to let you go.  Much depends on the terms and type of your employment.  Your lawyer should be able to give legal advice on how to respond to this.

My lawyer told me of a case years before where the father was looking good for custody.  He thoughtlessly decided to make copies of their Custody Evaluation and went around the neighborhood putting them under all the cars' windshields.  He had sabotaged himself and lost hope for custody.

How much her painting you black to your employer may backfire on her, we can't say from here.  Listen to your local legal advice.  Does the current order in place limit her from exacerbating the sensitive status quo?  At the least your lawyer needs to warn her lawyer to keep her under restraint.

Her seeking you to pay her legal fees while she earns more than you doesn't make sense from a legal standpoint.  Both of you would be required to report your incomes to the court when the topic of child support is addressed.  In any case she would have to declare her assets at some point in the divorce, often that is later toward the end of the process.

I work for a small company.  Up until now they didn't know what was going on in my personal life.  They told me not to worry about it, but anywhere else and it could have been much worse.  My attorney is talking to hers and sending a letter about what she did to show her behavior in court.  This is just pure insanity to me that anyone can make false accusations,  make you spend tons of money in court defending yourself and that's it.  Hey you didn't do it.  Somehow she should have to compensate me for her scorched earth plan to see if anything sticks.  This is going to cost combined over $100k and she's destroying everything we built up over the last 20 years.  She called the cops on me, cop said it was a joke,  then files with court that cops had to do a welfare check on the kids.  Well ya because you called them and lied.  I just hope the judge sees how crazy it is.

On a different note.  She is telling everyone I'm a narcissist and buying all kinds of books about healing from a narcissist.   Is this normal for bpd?  She discarded everyone in both our families and told them all they were under my influence.  That's nice she thinks I'm powerful enough to pull everyone's strings but come on now.

I feel like I'm in a movie.  False accusations no proof,  hey pay for it anyway.  I went through the bank account statement with my attorney today.   She's accusing me of financial abuse and wants me to put the money back.  She took over the last 5 months.......HALF the money from the account.   100k, she took 50k.  She's asking for me to give her another 34k to make up for my abuse.  So she gets 84k and I get 16k? 
I don't want to feel overconfident because I know her attorney is working on something against me but they have nothing.   No proof no claims.   What the hell is going on.  Feels like a joke

[Notwendy]

I think it's some strange way of saving face, avoiding shame, keeping the persona. My BPD mother has done similar things-saying things about others that are not true.

I don't know where she comes up with some of the things she says.
It's not just family but anyone who has boundaries with her or she's upset with.

My best explanation is Karpman triangle dynamics and "saving face". The divorce can't be your wife's fault, it has to be yours. Also since she feels like a victim - she is retaliating in her thinking as "self defense". I think for my mother, she truly feels she is being attacked and that her behavior in response is somehow deserved.

My BPD mother sees people as being "on her side" or "not her side" and so if she's upset with someone, she will rally others to "her side" against them.

My BPD mother also has NPD traits and one of them is lack of empathy- so she does do hurtful things without concern for how they impact other people. With projection - sometimes what they says is more about them than others. Makes me wonder if your soon to be ex has some NPD traits too.

Whatever the reason, it's good that you have a lawyer.

[ForeverDad]

I went through the bank account statement with my attorney today.   She's accusing me of financial abuse and wants me to put the money back.  She took over the last 5 months.......HALF the money from the account.   100k, she took 50k.  She's asking for me to give her another 34k to make up for my abuse.  So she gets 84k and I get 16k?

And the court will allow her to file all sorts of allegations.  Don't expect court to be so shocked as to lecture or punish her.  It will just say dismissed and move on.  Not fair but often it will let a lot of poor behavior slide, presuming emotions need time to cool down.  In family court we each had a TPO against each other.  I also had a TPO in municipal court since my life had been threatened.  Just before the last of our three initial TPOs ended I filed for divorce.  This is what happened:

When those temp orders were all dismissed (and later she was found Not Guilty of DV threats - judge ruled no weapon in her hands so death threats were not "imminent" per case law).  She immediately stopped exchanges.  After a month I found a divorce lawyer, got my paperwork done and filed for divorce.  Another two months and we had our initial divorce hearing.  The same magistrate was not perturbed she had blocked 100% for 3 months.  All he said was, "I'll fix this" and issued the same temp order, this time also ordering me to pay child support starting retroactive to the filing date.  No consequences for her, no make up time for me.

When her initial claims fizzle, expect her to make other, more scary claims.  My ex went to CPS, the local children's hospital and even made complaints about me at child exchanges in the sheriff's parking lot.  That I know of.  Like kids in a classroom throwing spitballs hoping something would stick.  Be aware.  Beware.

As for your spouse draining the account, I'm surprised she didn't take more.  If you would have given her an advance warning of a divorce filing - after all you're a Nice Guy who typically feels impelled to "play fair" - she probably would have raided the rest of it.  Count yourself lucky it wasn't worse because by the time the divorce is wrapping up and they get around to divvying up the financials, her unfair raiding of accounts may be overlooked by the lawyers in their rush to get it done and over with.

[mikejones75093]

And the court will allow her to file all sorts of allegations.  Don't expect court to be so shocked as to lecture or punish her.  It will just say dismissed and move on.  Not fair but often it will let a lot of poor behavior slide, presuming emotions need time to cool down.  In family court we each had a TPO against each other.  I also had a TPO in municipal court since my life had been threatened.  Just before the last of our three initial TPOs ended I filed for divorce.  This is what happened:

When her initial claims fizzle, expect her to make other, more scary claims.  My ex went to CPS, the local children's hospital and even made complaints about me at child exchanges in the sheriff's parking lot.  That I know of.  Like kids in a classroom throwing spitballs hoping something would stick.  Be aware.  Beware.

As for your spouse draining the account, I'm surprised she didn't take more.  If you would have given her an advance warning of a divorce filing - after all you're a Nice Guy who typically feels impelled to "play fair" - she probably would have raided the rest of it.  Count yourself lucky it wasn't worse because by the time the divorce is wrapping up and they get around to divvying up the financials, her unfair raiding of accounts may be overlooked by the lawyers in their rush to get it done and over with.

I just don't know how the courts can't look at this and call BS.  Same accusations as last time, except this time I have even more documentation.   Her strategy might be simply to bankrupt me, who knows.  She thinks the rules don't apply to her.  Little things like she walked into my house when I wasn't home and took a few things, she's not allowed to do that.  Court order awarded me exclusive use and possession.  She's trying to get our kids into counselors she can talk to first to paint me as a bad person and we both have to agree for her to let them see a counselor.  I hope the court comes down hard on her.  If I wanted the court to know she's nuts I needed her to show them,  well she's doing it.  I can't tell if she's being evil or if she actually believes the things she does.

[ForeverDad]

Do more than just request counseling, use a strategy that has worked well for us here.  Build a list of recommended and respected children's counselors.  Then present the list at the right time to the court and allow the ex to pick from your vetted list.  (1) Court will like it since it shows you're willing to involve both parents in the selection.  (2) You will be happy since your ex's predictable inclination, if she was choosing counselors, would be to pick inexperienced, biased or gullible counselors to be ex's negative advocates.  Instead she would be limited to your short list of vetted counselors.

[mikejones75093]

That's a good idea.  I'm going to do that.

All quiet until the court date.  I've been no contact.  Gets lonely but I'm starting to realize I stuck around so long because she's attractive.   I guess men are idiots.

[mikejones75093]

Bit of an update
She filed a motion to modify temp orders back in mid February trying to put me on supervised visitation because I'm dangerous.  She listed all kinds of untrue allegations, drugs alcohol things like that.  Court date was supposed to be Wednesday.   Judge had a jury trial and rescheduled it for mid June.  Got word yesterday the motion was withdrawn and she has parted ways with her attorney.  That's the second attorney she's parted ways with.

My attorney got the impression after speaking with hers that he knew they had nothing but he they were filing motions because she was pushing him to do it.  Made it seem like he "fired" her, agreed maybe they should part.  Spoke to her last night to try and settle.  She told me she let her attorney go because she can't afford him after all my financial abuse, that I am too litigious.  I've never filed a motion or called the police on her, and my huge legal bills are defending against her crap.  Is she serious?  Maybe she can't admit she was wrong or the attorney let her go so she's blaming me?  No clue what's next, she said she is going to continue with the June trial date and represent herself, even though her attorney said they are withdrawing.  I asked about settlement,  she literally said 1 mil cash primary custody right to choose residence and school and 3k a month in child support hahaha.  That might not sound funny except I wish I had that.  When I say not even close I mean worlds away, not even 10% of that.  I thought she was joking but she was serious and told me to find a way.  I'd love to find a way to get a mil for myself, maybe even a few times.

Whats next generally?  She's done with 2 high profile attorney's.  She's racked up almost 80 in legal fees for me to defend myself against things I have proof never happened.   3 cops were going to come testify for me that it was a joke she called them.  How does this get finished without burning another 80k?

All my friends and family keep warning me she will try and come back now that this is going wrong.  She tells me daily how I'm so ugly on the inside, that I'm an evil horrible person stealing her money not providing for my kids, I have 50/50 and my kids are good.   What do I need to be on the lookout for?  I'm a man and weak when it comes to her, is she going to try and hook me back?  Is representing herself going to completely make her implode?

[ForeverDad]

Be especially alert as the hearing date looms.  Maybe she'll drop it last minute.  Or maybe she'll fabricate more allegations to make her seem justified for continuing.  It could go either direction.  Be aware.  Beware.

My ex never looked back, never tried to lure me back.  But it does happen with some of us.  Don't be fooled, otherwise the next time she cycles, it's predictable that you'll find yourself right back here yet again and paying to defend yourself yet again.

If it does make it to court, try to get an enforceable outcome in your favor to reduce the impact of future allegations.  That's something to discuss with the lawyer... "I predict this will happen again, what legal terms or boundaries can we set in place that will limit or divert her future filings?"

[mikejones75093]

It gets even more interesting.

I met a girl.  We mainly talk on the phone and have gone out only a couple of times.  She's in a similar situation so we basically talk a lot on the phone.

Somehow ex found this person,  researched her ex and baby daddy.  Called this guy and told him I'm a dangerous drug using alcoholic and he needs to be concerned about his kid.   Now this guy files ex parte restraining order against his child's mom and subpoena me.  So now I get to go to court next week.  Everything she told him is untrue and I have proof, but wow this is just nuts.

This woman is stopping at nothing.  I just hope a judge can see this.  I have basically sat back and been normal while she keeps stirring the pot.

[mikejones75093]

She texts me that we need this divorce to be finished so we need to figure out a settlement.   OK great.

When I call to try and figure this out all that happens is she tells me how horrible I am.  Half just isn't good enough.  What is the motivation here?  Is she intentionally wanting to drag this out?  Why say we need to settle only to make 0 effort and only tell me how horrible of a person i am?  I have made peace with ending my marriage but this is nuts.   She no longer calls or texts.  Tells me to leave her alone.  I don't get it. 

[ForeverDad]

When is your next scheduled event such as a court hearing or trial?  Those of us who did reach settlements, surprisingly more than one would think, did so with a looming upcoming hearing or event.  When a pwBPD is in their comfort zone, as is the situation early in a case, the entitlement and control is largely evident.  Only later, with something looming, it was where the timing met up with reality.

[SinisterComplex]

Locked thread due to reaching post limit. Splitting off into a new thread which you can find here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=358513.msg13214797#msg13214797