Went in again and got burned

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Thank you for your reply Iquanablood - this time I've taken proper measures to cut any contact. I've blocked him in all the ways. I will bump into him in the community, but I have been here before with him and I just won't talk to him. I feel confident I can do that.

I've also gotten really honest with myself and I've shared that honesty with my friends. They all know now some of the darker parts of this dynamic we had... financial and sexual control, the lies, the other women, the mind games - I have let them be there for me while I'm feeling bad. Some have admitted they wanted to run an intervention to get me away from him... but instead they had to wait. In the past I would always defend him to them, but I wouldn't be able to do that again, so to go back to him would mean I'd lose all my friends with the shame. I made sure of it this time.

The problem I've had all along is my stubborn refusal to let go of my belief of him as a good person. Someone I connected with deeply and shared real love with. That he didn't mean to do all the things he did. That he is steps away from healing these difficult parts of himself, as he kept saying he was... there have been moments more recently where I looked at all the lies and betrayal and manipulation and felt like none of the good was real, and it was all just a 'false self' he created.

But I realise that I am splitting him in this process... that he's either all good or all bad... just like he does to me. Whereas the truth is that all these things exist in him concurrently. He's dark and light. He uses good and bad behaviour to protect the wounded child underneath... but I still got to experience the real him, and I did truly love the real him. But I can never be with him again. I am not sure that he did ever really love me... not in the true sense of the word. I think he just loved what I gave him and how I made him feel... but that was only true of the times I was giving. It all seemed to disappear the moment he had no use for those things I gave.

[seekingtheway]

Thank you for your reply Iquanablood - this time I've taken proper measures to cut any contact. I've blocked him in all the ways. I will bump into him in the community, but I have been here before with him and I just won't talk to him. I feel confident I can do that.

I've also gotten really honest with myself and I've shared that honesty with my friends. They all know now some of the darker parts of this dynamic we had... financial and sexual control, the lies, the other women, the mind games - I have let them be there for me while I'm feeling bad. Some have admitted they wanted to run an intervention to get me away from him... but instead they had to wait. In the past I would always defend him to them, but I wouldn't be able to do that again, so to go back to him would mean I'd lose all my friends with the shame. I made sure of it this time.

The problem I've had all along is my stubborn refusal to let go of my belief of him as a good person. Someone I connected with deeply and shared real love with. That he didn't mean to do all the things he did. That he is steps away from healing these difficult parts of himself, as he kept saying he was... there have been moments more recently where I looked at all the lies and betrayal and manipulation and felt like none of the good was real, and it was all just a 'false self' he created.

But I realise that I am splitting him in this process... that he's either all good or all bad... just like he does to me. Whereas the truth is that all these things exist in him concurrently. He's dark and light. He uses good and bad behaviour to protect the wounded child underneath... but I still got to experience the real him, and I did truly love the real him. But I can never be with him again. I am not sure that he did ever really love me... not in the true sense of the word. I think he just loved what I gave him and how I made him feel... but that was only true of the times I was giving. It all seemed to disappear the moment he had no use for those things I gave.

[iquanablood]

You’re not splitting him.  Maybe he is just a lousy person.  Sometimes I think these people get to hide behind their mental illness.  It sounds like he is aware of the fact that he is hurting you, he’s doing it on purpose, mental illness or not.  That makes him a lousy person.

Keep burning the bridges, then he can’t burn you anymore.  You said you lived in a beach town like I do, right?  So burn a few more bridges and hey, you got Smoke On the Water!  Hahaha.  Sorry, can’t help it…

[seekingtheway]

Haha, yep, you're right... it's funny because he spoke to me in lyrics and music too. Many beautiful sentiments he sent to me this way.. but some of his more recent dedications to me are 'Your ex-lover is dead' by Stars, 'Dumb Things' by Paul Kelly. and 'Reasons are all I have left' by Art of Fighting.

Yes, all these are meant to hurt me. And then he'll deny it and say he didn't understand them to be hurtful seeing as lyrics are subjective and not 'everything' is about me after all.

He would also play songs in the background depending his mood with me. Some really nasty, and some I knew that were special to him and other women. It was true head PLEASE READery. Music is a great love of mine too, and I'm pissed off that it has been used as a way to try and hurt me.

[iquanablood]

Well, actions always speak louder than words.  Sounds like his actions are speaking louder than the words in the songs.  Listen to Idiot Wind by Dylan sometime, he kind of takes the side of both of the protagonists in the song, it’s an interesting song in this circumstance.

I’m on day 45 but it’s been hard, hard, hard.  Yesterday I felt like I was in some kind of horror movie.  I felt like my little angel and my little devil were fighting it out pretty good in my head.  I thought maybe I had been isolating myself too much.  I walked to the beach at 6:00 and there she was.  My little angel won, I did not approach her and I don’t know if she saw me or not.  But I think maybe she did.

I want this to end and I want to be happy again.  I really do.  Have a nice night.

[seekingtheway]

My ex reached out a couple of days ago... I think he must have come out of his split. I hadn't blocked him sufficiently enough on all the platforms. And I responded... he ended up calling me, which is the first time we've spoken since we split 6 weeks ago.

To begin with it was tense and difficult... but by the end of the exchange, something weird happened... he gave up arguing... stopped blaming me for what happened in our relationship, he took responsibility and he apologised... this is something he did when we were together many times, but when he split at the end, he changed the storyline so none of it was his fault anymore. Suddenly he's back to knowing he's got issues and he's sorry I got caught up in that.

He talked about how anxious he feels in relationships... how he just wants to find that person he can feel comfortable with. I told him I wanted him to be happy... told him it's his journey now... it's nothing to do with me any more... go find that person... I just didn't want him to keep treating me so badly.. said I didn't deserve it. He agreed and apologised again. We left it in a good place.

I put the phone down and I felt like I could breathe for the first time in 6 weeks. Validation, respect... didn't think I was going to get it, but I did. I cried with relief.

But then 10 minutes later, he messages, he wants to meet up and have a coffee. Sigh. Starts messaging about how things could have been done differently. Sigh. I respond very vaguely. I don't agree to meet up. He messages first thing in the morning again and throughout the day... but then he has a session with his psych... he cools after that, and he's just happy we've found some peace, he says he's happy I'm feeling lighter and it feels like he's drawing contact to a close.

When I was in the conversation with him, it didn't feel like he was attempting to recycle in any way... it felt genuine. But maybe my lack of blame or resistance to the breakup triggered something for him. Nostalgia. Or him knowing I'm happy to walk away perhaps triggers his fear of abandonment. In any event, I think his session with his psych has put him back in touch with reality for the time being.

It's my wish that we can just leave it there. In a good place. With respect between us. And he goes on his journey and I go on mine. But I doubt that's the last I hear from him...

I really need to prepare myself for ways to respond if he reaches out again so I can gently shut it down in a way to keeps the respect intact (which is the way I really want it to stay if possible), but not engage. He's out there looking for other women... most likely multiple women (I'm surmising this because he said he's not ready for a relationship on the phone)... and that fact alone just makes me feel sick that he would even consider that there's a chance we could ever be together again.

[seekingtheway]

I think the thing that was confirmed in the moment he started messaging after we wrapped up the closure call... nothing is stable... ever. Things flip in the blink of an eye. And that's the only thing that can be relied on.

[tina7868]

I really need to prepare myself for ways to respond if he reaches out again so I can gently shut it down in a way to keeps the respect intact (which is the way I really want it to stay if possible), but not engage.

A way I`ve been trying to reframe my own thinking, in this regard, is seeing the other person reaching out as a possibility, and reminding myself that I am prepared for any outcome.

You`re seeing what he can offer you, realistically. It`s fair to say that is not what you want. It sounds like you have a good boundary here. Now you can focus on yourself and what is that you do want.

[seekingtheway]

Thanks Tina - yes, I do see what he's offering quite realistically.

It amazes me that I can know this very certainly, the logic is all there, but my emotions feel far behind the eight-ball. I am still very up and down and can get very stuck in my head, remembering the good times, and going down the road of 'if only he' and 'maybe if I'...

Today a post flashed up on Facebook from his business and he has posted something about his ex-girlfriend's business on there... a big supportive post promoting an event they are holding. I couldn't believe it... because he monkey branched to her and then came back to me saying she was a dangerous, abusive narcissist, and he has always said that he'd never have anything to do with her again. So when I saw the post today... it leaves me with a few ways to interpret it. He has either reconnected with her and is trying to get back into her good books... or perhaps into the good books of the community she belongs to, seeing as he had a lot of people who wanted nothing to do with him after they broke up.... or he's trying to get to me because he knows it would trigger me that he's back in contact with her. Maybe it's both. I guess it doesn't matter. But my brain still wants to figure it out. I am trying to keep reminding myself that his brain doesn't work the way mine does, that logic is not usually part of the mix when it comes to a lot of his actions.

I think my brain is so used to him coming back eventually... in some capacity... that it's hard for me to stop imagining the ways that he's going to do it next. And the logical part of my brain doesn't want that. But the emotional part of my brain does, and still craves him.

One thing I've been struggling with, having read so so so many stories about BPD now, and getting a bit stuck in the Reddit rabbit hole... how many people talk about the fact the love wasn't real, and that the relationship is not rooted in love but is based on their needs only.. and that people with BPD change as soon as you're not around... this is causing a lot of sadness for me. Because it's another layer of grief I don't want to have to face - that the love wasn't real... in my sense of the word. It makes me distrust my intuition and therefore my sense of safety in the world... I don't know what to trust at the moment.

[seekingtheway]

I finally started therapy - it was four long months of being on the waitlist, and I was literally gagging at the bit to get in there and get some of this experience out...

I feel like my psychologist is going to be a great fit for me - she also does EMDR and comes highly recommended (hence the wait), so I'm excited to dig in with her.

The first session, she said something about us getting to the point where I finally accept my ex's limitations and drop any further hope. And that comment really did hit me hard, because i realised in that moment that I have been and still am holding hope - even against my logical mind. It seems my head and heart aren't yet in the same place.

My ex reappeared again last week and came in hot for a day... wanted me to sleep with him... sending me links of properties in the countryside (because that was always our dream). I said no... it was hard and hurt to say no... which he could see clearly... I showed my upset and confusion... told him that the chaotic back and forth has caused me a lot of anxiety... and then when he turned cold and distant again, that hurt even more, and messed with my head for a while.

My psych was understanding of the fact I've been hopeless at sticking to no contact. And that's what we'll work on in sessions - building that strength and confidence. I've also deleted all of his messages and his number... so I can't contact him first. But I don't feel okay about blocking him, and actually I think this just adds to the drama of it all. I'm accepting it's baby steps.

Wish I knew what was needed to truly drop all hope.

[jaded7]

I finally started therapy - it was four long months of being on the waitlist, and I was literally gagging at the bit to get in there and get some of this experience out...

I feel like my psychologist is going to be a great fit for me - she also does EMDR and comes highly recommended (hence the wait), so I'm excited to dig in with her.

The first session, she said something about us getting to the point where I finally accept my ex's limitations and drop any further hope. And that comment really did hit me hard, because i realised in that moment that I have been and still am holding hope - even against my logical mind. It seems my head and heart aren't yet in the same place.

My ex reappeared again last week and came in hot for a day... wanted me to sleep with him... sending me links of properties in the countryside (because that was always our dream). I said no... it was hard and hurt to say no... which he could see clearly... I showed my upset and confusion... told him that the chaotic back and forth has caused me a lot of anxiety... and then when he turned cold and distant again, that hurt even more, and messed with my head for a while.

My psych was understanding of the fact I've been hopeless at sticking to no contact. And that's what we'll work on in sessions - building that strength and confidence. I've also deleted all of his messages and his number... so I can't contact him first. But I don't feel okay about blocking him, and actually I think this just adds to the drama of it all. I'm accepting it's baby steps.

Wish I knew what was needed to truly drop all hope.

So exciting that you finally got in to the therapist.

"The first session, she said something about us getting to the point where I finally accept my ex's limitations and drop any further hope. And that comment really did hit me hard, because i realised in that moment that I have been and still am holding hope - even against my logical mind. It seems my head and heart aren't yet in the same place."

This is so where I'm at and have even written myself- my head and my heart are in such different places! My head understands the disrespect and lying and name-calling etc. is bad and abusive, my heart feels for her and wants to show her love. It feels almost impossible to drop the hope.

Good for you for setting those boundaries and withstanding the 'storm' of the return/reconnection. You said 'no', even though it hurt to do so. And now, look at his response to your no....turning cold and, probably, angry. Isn't that the pattern in these relationships? No - to any little thing, or big thing, said with love and respect for the relationship- brings about anger and very often attacks. That was my experience exactly.....and here you show it in action.

A healthy person would hear your 'no' and recognize that he's put you through so much, recognize that the push and pull is so hurtful, recognize that you deserve consistency and respect. But he got angry and pulled away then. As if this was all about him. As it usually is in these relationships.

That's one of the central themes I've come to understand in my relationship. A no was always treated like a failure on my part, or an attack. It was always met with real anger, trying to get me to feel bad for saying no, telling me how I'm failing the relationship somehow or how I'm a failure at being a businessman, a partner, a friend. Even when there were really clear and sound reasons for my no, even when it was said with love and respect.

I'm excited for you to be able to move forward, and it sounds like you found a great therapist to work with.

[tina7868]

I finally started therapy - it was four long months of being on the waitlist, and I was literally gagging at the bit to get in there and get some of this experience out...

I feel like my psychologist is going to be a great fit for me - she also does EMDR and comes highly recommended (hence the wait), so I'm excited to dig in with her.

The first session, she said something about us getting to the point where I finally accept my ex's limitations and drop any further hope. And that comment really did hit me hard, because i realised in that moment that I have been and still am holding hope - even against my logical mind. It seems my head and heart aren't yet in the same place.

My ex reappeared again last week and came in hot for a day... wanted me to sleep with him... sending me links of properties in the countryside (because that was always our dream). I said no... it was hard and hurt to say no... which he could see clearly... I showed my upset and confusion... told him that the chaotic back and forth has caused me a lot of anxiety... and then when he turned cold and distant again, that hurt even more, and messed with my head for a while.

My psych was understanding of the fact I've been hopeless at sticking to no contact. And that's what we'll work on in sessions - building that strength and confidence. I've also deleted all of his messages and his number... so I can't contact him first. But I don't feel okay about blocking him, and actually I think this just adds to the drama of it all. I'm accepting it's baby steps.

Wish I knew what was needed to truly drop all hope.

I`ll join jaded7 in recognizing your good work!

Glad to hear that you found a therapist that feels like the right fit for you. I`m sorry that you had to wait so long to see her! I think that it`s normal to still hold on to hope, despite what the logical part of your brain is telling you. It`s part of being human for emotions to lead at times, and it`s not a bad thing that you still have an open heart. Don`t be hard on yourself, you`re taking the steps to reach a point of balance where you not only drop this particular hope, and replace it with hope for a better future for yourself.

It makes total sense that your ex`s actions hurt and confused you. I think you should be proud of asserting yourself by saying how you felt. His actions truly have, as jaded7 pointed out, more to do with him than they do with you. If you take a step back, you can see all the indications of his limited capacity to understand the consequences of his actions. That isn`t a stable basis to build a relationship on.

No contact is a tool amongst many that can help with detaching. Going stone cold on someone you cared very much about might not be the approach that works for you (as it does for others), and that`s perfectly okay. I can relate to you on this, and I`m sure others can as well. I personally recognize that it would distress me more than it would help me.  And that`s the key point; you have to focus on what works for you.  That empathy and caring that would make it so hard for you to go no contact are in their own way also your own unique strengths. They can also be hurtful, as you`ve experienced, when it comes to protecting your own heart. It sounds like you`re taking the steps towards letting go not out of malice or anger, but out of kindness to yourself. You deserve happiness too.

[seekingtheway]

Thanks so much for your thoughts guys - I appreciate it so much.

Yes, his actions have massively confused and hurt me. He has come in hot offering the world and begging forgiveness... then changed his mind and gaslighting me into thinking he wasn't actually offering that... so so SO many times now. Coming back and forth like the wind. Obviously I've stopped letting him come in again, but even allowing the opportunity for him to even be suggestive about it gets into my head and throws me completely off balance. So I do need to get to the point where there's no contact. It's just been baby steps to get there.

Our pattern has always been that I feel incredibly uncomfortable about leaving things in an unresolved/unpeaceful place and I make contact with him to soothe, resolve and tie it all up nicely. It seems my nervous system needs that. Especially because we live in the same community and see each other around. But once I've done that, he comes back in again... sometimes it takes him minutes, sometimes days/weeks and in the past many months and a relationship for him in between. But he always comes back. And he goes hard with the love-bombing.

I told him the other week about how anxious I was feeling about him reappearing and then disappearing again... he went through a range of reactions to that - first he tried to gaslight me into thinking he hadn't 'reappeared again'... then he was really nice about it and said he understood, and then in the same conversation thought we could maybe hang out and have coffee sometimes... and then he tried to tease me about my anxiety... which I went along with, but when I teased him back about being indecisive, he got nasty... and he sent me a meme about being a 'stage five clinger'. And when I told him I would be upset if that's what he really thought of me... he got angry... shut the conversation down.

I tried to explain to him what effect the back and forth has had on me... how it's actually taken me to a dark place and made me anxious and insecure in ways I didn't used to be. He didn't respond to that. It's obviously easier to label me an anxious, clingy, psycho ex... than to acknowledge that his actions have upset and damaged me.. as they would upset and damage anyone.

When I talked to my psych about it, I was able to see that I just keep going to him with how I feel and hoping he will suddenly get it or acknowledge it... and that's because 1 or 2 times out of 10 he WILL acknowledge it and be kind. But the other times he just ignores me or gaslights me, which makes me even more anxious. It's like a fruit machine. And that's the intermittent reinforcement that keeps me hooked into the game.

Over time I have turned from being a high-value partner who he didn't feel he deserved and had to work at to keep in his life, to a low-value partner who he can pick up and drop whenever he wants. Neither of those positions are healthy. So while I want to keep compassion and love for him, it's important to state that I really don't like the way he has treated me, and I do want to catch my heart up with my head... really hoping therapy will work, but I'm also reading articles that suggest interrupting thoughts about him with other things, and re-reading the truth of the relationship and how bad it was for me... to start re-wiring my brain.

[Augustine]

Our pattern has always been that I feel incredibly uncomfortable about leaving things in an unresolved/unpeaceful place and I make contact with him to soothe, resolve and tie it all up nicely. It seems my nervous system needs that.

This touches upon the crux of the matter.

BPD cannot exist in a world without dichotomy, and we cannot occupy that same space with them without injury.

By definition, BPD-in its dichotomous universe-doesn’t invite resolution, and whatever consolation we seek has to be self-prescribed.

“Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble, and the sculpture.”

I can intellectually accommodate the nuances of BPD, but emotionally resolving the behaviour(s) is still something that I live with daily.

It would be invaluable if you could share your thoughts as you progress through therapy, and I wish you every success.

[seekingtheway]

So, so true Augustine, thank you.

BPD behaviour, at least that of my ex, is literally just that... dichotomous. And it is so hard to resolve in your head. Because my brain doesn't work that way.

As I work towards more security in myself and my thinking, I feel confident I'll see it much clearer and feel a stronger resolve to step completely away from the madness and feel okay about there being some unresolved things between us. But I think the work then becomes dealing with the pain I feel from buying into the dream that he sold... and dissolving any type of hope that he could ever follow through with any of those promises.

As my psych said, everyone has hope and the ability to heal to some degree. But I'm the least likely person he's going to change for now - because he tried and it failed, multiple times... so I need to give up hope that even if we tried again, it would be any different. He's already laid down deep tracks of disrespect, betrayal and lies with me... so it needs to be a new person, someone he doesn't want to risk losing... coming back to me just keeps him stuck in his patterns... and it does look like he's trying to reconnect with his ex before me (the dangerous, abusive narcissist he monkey branched to from me and then back to me)... so it's clear he's not ready to face any of it yet.

Will definitely keep you updated as therapy progresses.

[seekingtheway]

Am actually struggling with really, really intense anxiety the last few days - I think I have pinpointed it as coming from the fact that I think my ex is about to re-connect with his ex before me...

He left me for her nearly two years ago, there had been no fighting, although he had been withdrawn for a few weeks, but nonetheless, he totally blindsided me... and then posted (publically) a picture of himself and this woman on socials four hours after we broke up. I couldn't understand why he did that, didn't think that anyone would do something that cruel - but a few months later, we had a text conversation where I told him I was still very confused by out breakup. He said he was too. He suggested we meet for a coffee. But then he did it again... an hour after our conversation, he posted (again, publically, so I could see) about the two of them, but this time there was no mistake, they were deep in a serious relationship.

At this point I blocked him and didn't look back, but the pain was intense. I didn't reach out to him or say anything, I just dealt with it all by myself.

Fast forward 6 months and it was all over for them. He messaged me out the blue to apologise for hurting me... at first I wasn't interested. But after a month of thinking about it, I said I forgave him and wished him the best. That opened the door for him to come in with the love-bombing and stories of what had happened...

He said that he had been coerced by this woman, that he had been abused by her, she was a narcissist... that she'd manipulated him to leave his son (because she lives a 10-hour drive away, so he was away for a lot of the time he was with her), and many stories of crazy, chaotic, controlling behaviour, which ended in a very traumatic relationship for him. He refused to even say her name... the name he gave to her, which he widely used in his family and friends and to me was 'red flag'. He said he wasn't in his right mind, and had to apologise to a lot of people for leaving his home, his son, his business, and me. He said that she was potentially dangerous... but not to worry because he would protect me from her if needs be. He said this experience was what he needed to finally be ready to see what he needed and wanted from his life, and obviously that was ME! I took him back.

He told me that a few months back that she messaged him to test the waters, and also she got her son to message him and say that he missed him. Which makes me wonder if actually he was right about her being manipulative... I can't think of a single healthy person who would get their child involved to try and tug at the emotions of an ex partner.

Anyway, I have been watching him throw out little carrots to her on social media quite recently... just small little signs that not many other people would recognise, but I do. She's incredibly beautiful, and similar to him, her business does a lot of good in the community. She's putting on an event in the area we live in this weekend coming... my ex promoted it on his social media... which in my mind is a clear and open sign that he wants to reconnect with her. And now I see that they follow each other once again on socials. They've obviously been talking.

My anxiety is going wild because... if he goes back to her, it means a few things. Firstly, it potentially means that the story he used to bring me back after treating me so, so badly was completely false, and means that I was duped into going back to him. (although there's potential that it was true in his perspective but he's so unstable that he's going to go back there anyway).

And/or... it also means that if they go back to each other now, it's going to happen in the next few days at this event... and I think in my head it means that it's closing the door on he and I forever, because I could NEVER go back again after that. And although I knew already that I need to never go back, this is another step towards accepting that there truly is NO hope at all. And there's a lot of grief sitting behind that realisation I think. I'm scared to tap into it.

[seekingtheway]

Just coming back in to share an update as I'm progressing through therapy.

I had a few really great weeks where I was feeling strong and free of anxiety... the future started to take shape again and I felt really hopeful. I started sharing some detailed stories about my ex around then, but I realised that I was going to spend all of my sessions telling her stories about him (becuase there are so, so many), and I don't want to waste all of my sessions talking about him, so instead I condensed all of the patterns I'd noticed into a list, which I read out to her. The list got pretty long. And I got incredibly shaky and overwhelmed by re-living all of it... I spent 3-4 days in bed afterwards... I actually went to a really dark place, which felt scary and awful. Only just starting to settle now but still in fight or flight basically all of the time.

My psychologist said that of course she can't diagnose, but from the patterns I called out, her opinion is that he has BPD, and potentially other things too. But she said definitely cluster B going on.

We didn't go much into the list - I struggled to even look at her... I just wanted to get it all out as quickly and efficiently as possible... but it's done, and I feel like crap still, but it felt like an important step. I also made a list of ways this relationship has impacted me. And a list of wounds that have either been created or deepened in this relationship... so that's where we agreed we will focus from here... on me, not him... my wounds, my pain, my healing...

I've also been working on a list of all the unhealthy ways I showed up in that relationship. I'm having to think harder about this list, but I think it's going to be really useful. So many lists, but I'm invested in healing and moving on. I really want to let this man go.

It was good to have the validation from a very experienced professional that BPD is the most likely thing going on, but it's also triggered a lot of feelings - compassion, sadness, regret, anger...

I unfortunaltey saw my ex while I was in a bad state of mind not long after the session... I have made a big song and dance about getting us to a peaceful place, and vowed I'd be normal and breezy with him when I saw him... but on that day I ignored him, I couldn't do it... I was not in a good place and I just froze... so of course that upset him and has triggered even bigger anxiety for me to then deal with (as I've mentioned in my posts above, I always contact him to soothe when things aren't okay between us)... so i reverted to my old pattern and contacted him to smooth and apologise and say I wanted for us to be able to say hello.

His response was cool. I think he's found someone else - well, I know he found another dozen someone else's right after we broke up and he was still push/pulling me... but I suspect he's found someone he's going to go exclusive with... so it's possible there won't be any more push/pull now for a while. He will be busy. It stings a bit, but I see this is a window of time for me to heal and finally find some strength... to heal my need for things to be peaceful between us... to begin to move on myself.

[seekingtheway]

Actually, I will add... my ex's response to me saying I want us to be able to say hello with comfort was not only cool, but manipulative - bringing his son into it, and saying he wants us to be friendly in front of his son... which makes no sense to me because I'm not close to his son...

but he also said that enough time has passed for us to now be in a place where we say hello to each other - kind of like, come on, you're allowed some time to be upset, but that's enough, it's well in the past and we're over it now.

The reality is this kind of thing takes a looooong time to heal. And he really messed with my head by coming in for a red hot recycle only a few weeks ago. Of course I'm still upset and trying to heal. Of course I'm going to have bad days.

And although I didn't fight back to this comment because I want to project strength... I'm not okay yet - I'm not over it. It helps to be able to say that here. Thanks everyone.

[tina7868]

Hi seekingtheway, thank you for sharing an update . It sounds like you`re putting a lot of focused effort into your healing. I`m sorry to hear that you`ve been in a dark place. You`ve inspired me to give list-making a try. You`re indeed correct in saying that this time where your ex is giving you space is a window of opportunity for you to heal without any confusing interruptions. It is okay not to be okay. It`s important to distinguish your reality from his in times like this. And keep in mind that what he says, how he feels, whatever he`s doing are all going to be skewed by a disordered lense. His approach seems to be to brush over his underlying issues. In the long term, this approach falls apart. You on the other hand are putting in the work to put yourself back together, piece by piece, and you will become whole again, stronger and more resilient. It is the more uncomfortable path, but so worth it. Be patient and kind with yourself.

[seekingtheway]

Thanks so much Tina. I appreciate that a lot.

I agree with you - this journey requires a lot of patience, and it will definitely help to not have any confusing distractions with it.

I went down a real rabbit hole yesterday reading old stories on here, and methods to heal - I read so many stories that are just like mine. It really helps. I do think I need to be quite disciplined on certain things moving forward - like not checking his socials at all. And having a script of how I'll interact when I bump into him in the community.

I also want to invest in my own purpose and happiness. I finally found a new home and have moved in - I really love it here... (which after 5 months of bunking in other people's homes is pure bliss) and I have a new schedule with my ex-H with our children which means I am now getting time to myself for the first time in a very long time, and means I can put time into a creative project I've been really wanting/threatening to do for years. It feels like some things are falling into place.

I was defiinitely in a dark place the week of that counselling session, and I have a feeling there will be other regressions along the way... but I do also feel the shift of the gears that will allow me to move forwards.

I read something interesting yesterday, along the lines of being in a relationship with a Cluster B is along the lines of being in a cult - a Cult of One. There is a need for you to switch off your normal/rational thinking in order for you to stay and function in this dynamic. So I've been finding it interesting to read about the suggestions of how to heal from this. There is a need to 'de-program'. Some interesting content out there from Rachel Bernstein and Steven Hassan about that.

Perhaps it's no small coincidence that I myself was raised in a cult-like religion. A lot of my anxiety/codepdendency issues stem from that time and from when I broke away from it.

[tina7868]

You seem to have drawn solid conclusions. Not checking his socials will indeed decrease anxious triggers. Feel free to post your thoughts on your script for when you run into him here, if it`s helpful to you, we can work on it together. And that goes for exploring how your childhood may have set the stage for anxiety and codependency as well. All great stuff. I will go on to remind you that if you do check his socials again, if you find it hard to write the script, if it feels confronting to face things from your past - it`s normal, it`s okay, and you`re not alone. Healing isn`t linear.

Congratulations on the new home, what wonderful news  !

Something that helped me in my journey, that reminds me of what you`re writing, is a shift in mindset. Mistakes, difficulties are going to be present in life. That is how things go. I realized that I lived my life with so many fears: what do people think of me, what mistakes have I made, what mistakes will I make, what if I didn`t even realize I did something wrong, what if I said the wrong thing, has their opinion changed of me...that`s a lot of mental load! What`s more is that these elements are out of my control, other than showing up and doing my best. So, my conclusion was to nurture and appreciate that what I can control is how I see things. When mistakes are made, when challenges arise, I know that I have the strength, skills and support to surmount them. The rest isn`t up to me, and what a relief!

Keep going, you`ve got this!

[seekingtheway]

Thanks so much for the encouragement Tina.

I wish the path were linear, but it's really not is it?!

He uses social media as a way to get messages to his ex's (and current partner)... so it really is best I don't look. It's not going to be anything positive. But there's also part of me that wants to be prepared for what's next... he lives a street away from me so I'm living with a little bit of fear around who his next partner is, and how that is going to interrupt my peace.

I'd like to aim for indifference. And I'm going to have to fake that until I make it. It's not something I'm good at - my face and energy usually says it all. But I'd like some kind of standard, friendly response when I see him that I can just fall on - whether he's on his own or with someone, icnluding a new partner.

Maybe just a smile and a wave and, a cheery – Hey, how are you going? How's your son? Great! I've got to head off, but good to see you!

I'm really swinging between two opposing states of wanting peace and being able to be friendly with him when I see him (because not having peace makes me really anxious, but if I'm being truly honest, I wonder if there's a part of me that thinks I'll lose him completely if there isn't peace?? Still hoping onto little shreds of hope against my better judgement), and then I swing to anger, resentment, hurt and not wanting anything to do with him at all, not even to acknowledge him at all.

This pendulum swing inside of me makes me think this is what it must be like to have BPD but about all kinds of things. I know my pendulum swing will eventually slow and stop somewhere though. I can't wait for that!

[seekingtheway]

Am actually struggling with really, really intense anxiety the last few days - I think I have pinpointed it as coming from the fact that I think my ex is about to re-connect with his ex before me...

He left me for her nearly two years ago, there had been no fighting, although he had been withdrawn for a few weeks, but nonetheless, he totally blindsided me... and then posted (publically) a picture of himself and this woman on socials four hours after we broke up. I couldn't understand why he did that, didn't think that anyone would do something that cruel - but a few months later, we had a text conversation where I told him I was still very confused by out breakup. He said he was too. He suggested we meet for a coffee. But then he did it again... an hour after our conversation, he posted (again, publically, so I could see) about the two of them, but this time there was no mistake, they were deep in a serious relationship.

At this point I blocked him and didn't look back, but the pain was intense. I didn't reach out to him or say anything, I just dealt with it all by myself.

Fast forward 6 months and it was all over for them. He messaged me out the blue to apologise for hurting me... at first I wasn't interested. But after a month of thinking about it, I said I forgave him and wished him the best. That opened the door for him to come in with the love-bombing and stories of what had happened...

He said that he had been coerced by this woman, that he had been abused by her, she was a narcissist... that she'd manipulated him to leave his son (because she lives a 10-hour drive away, so he was away for a lot of the time he was with her), and many stories of crazy, chaotic, controlling behaviour, which ended in a very traumatic relationship for him. He refused to even say her name... the name he gave to her, which he widely used in his family and friends and to me was 'red flag'. He said he wasn't in his right mind, and had to apologise to a lot of people for leaving his home, his son, his business, and me. He said that she was potentially dangerous... but not to worry because he would protect me from her if needs be. He said this experience was what he needed to finally be ready to see what he needed and wanted from his life, and obviously that was ME! I took him back.

He told me that a few months back that she messaged him to test the waters, and also she got her son to message him and say that he missed him. Which makes me wonder if actually he was right about her being manipulative... I can't think of a single healthy person who would get their child involved to try and tug at the emotions of an ex partner.

Anyway, I have been watching him throw out little carrots to her on social media quite recently... just small little signs that not many other people would recognise, but I do. She's incredibly beautiful, and similar to him, her business does a lot of good in the community. She's putting on an event in the area we live in this weekend coming... my ex promoted it on his social media... which in my mind is a clear and open sign that he wants to reconnect with her. And now I see that they follow each other once again on socials. They've obviously been talking.

My anxiety is going wild because... if he goes back to her, it means a few things. Firstly, it potentially means that the story he used to bring me back after treating me so, so badly was completely false, and means that I was duped into going back to him. (although there's potential that it was true in his perspective but he's so unstable that he's going to go back there anyway).

And/or... it also means that if they go back to each other now, it's going to happen in the next few days at this event... and I think in my head it means that it's closing the door on he and I forever, because I could NEVER go back again after that. And although I knew already that I need to never go back, this is another step towards accepting that there truly is NO hope at all. And there's a lot of grief sitting behind that realisation I think. I'm scared to tap into it.

Just came back to look at this post, because it turns out I was right... he has gotten back with his ex. I saw them today. It was a massive shock... and I'm trying to process it.

If I look at all the stories on this board, it doesn't seem out of place. It all makes perfect sense that he would go back to his (allegedly abusive narcissistic) ex... which means he's ping-ponged between me then her - then back to me and then back to her... but when I look at it through a non-disordered lens, it's totally bananas, and not behaviour that I can get my head around.

He literally spent most of the year he was with me trying to put right all that he destroyed when he was with her - including relationship with his ex-wife, his son, me, his friends, his business... and now he's back with her. And it just reinforces the fact that everything is momentary in his world, his words can't be and shouldn't be trusted... his relationship with me was built on lies and deceit... and at this stage, it just feels like I was in love with a mirage. I can't grasp what was real any more. I kept trying to hold onto what I felt was his goodness... but I can't trust that any more.

Was feeling absolutely terrible a few hours and cried my eyes out for ages... shock and sadness... but now it's shifting a bit and i'm feeling some relief... what an absolute mess... it still hurts and probably will for some time, but I am feeling grateful to be free of it.

I am however a bit worried about seeing them in my community - as I did today. She lives far away but I imagine she will be visiting regularly now. I live 100 metres from his place. Our kids go to the same school. I don't think she will take too kindly to me - I think I could be a target. And if my ex was telling truth about her temper, I should be worried. Any advice of how to handle it?

[tina7868]

Hey seekingtheway, I`m really sorry to hear of these developments that have you feeling not only sad, but also worried given the unpredictability of his new (or rather old) partner. I can`t speak much to how to handle the latter as I haven`t dealt with this myself, but based on what I`ve read in the forum it is important to stear as clear from their drama and implications as much as possible if they do try to reel you in. Again, I`m sorry that you find yourself  in this situation. Make sure to share with us should anything of the sort happen and I`m sure we can help you navigate the situation.

I can relate to other aspects of your situation. Your ex returning to a partner who was allegedly abusive and narcissistic mirrors in a way my ex, who is seeking to return to his partner who was avoidant, invalidating of his feelings, cold (according to him). It does make sense logically. When you have such trouble navigating your own emotions, feel inferior deep down, and you have no concrete idea of who you are, getting mixed up in drama feels right, which is why they`d seek partners who bring that out in them. On the other hand, being with someone who does offer you support and love makes you mistrustful, and even repelled from that person. It`s counterintuitive, as are many facets of these relationships.

Focus on yourself as much as possible, and if you feel sad and grief then allow the emotions to come. Dig into that sense of relief, as it is a glimpse into what is on the other side of this mess. You are indeed free. No one can take away your heart, and you have a good one.

[seekingtheway]

Hi all, wanted to give an update... as therapy progresses, I was hoping the trajectory in terms of recovery is going north, and I suppose in lots of way it is, but in other ways I'm struggling with it all just as much as I was.

I haven't been in contact with my ex for a few months now, which is the longest period for several years. It's allowing me the space to really dive into therapy. As much as possible, we are no longer focusing on him and 'what he did', and we are now focusing on me and how I got there. It's deep work and it's confronting. I feel like I've just walked into the skeleton closet, and it's dark, so my eyes are trying to get accustomed to what I'm seeing in there...

My memory of my childhood is very patchy. And I often feel confused and foggy when I try and think about what it was like. I don't feel like I have a very good grip on the psychology of my father in particular, though I knew that my mother has a lot of co-dependent traits. But I always just thought of my parents as really good people, with their faults for sure... but good, kind people. So when my psychologist suggested last week that actually my father showed a lot of narcissistic traits, it took me by surprise.

There are other players in my family too. Potentially disordered. As we are figuring out, everyone is lower on the spectrum of disordered behaviour, with lots of wonderful, kind qualities in there too (just like my ex!). I won't get into all the players, but basically she is suggesting that I have been around a lot of disordered behaviour, and I have had a lifetime of invalidation and dismissal.

And the role I learned in the family? The words she used were 'horse whisperer'. I learned how to read people, understand them, have empathy for them, be the peacekeeper, forgive them... keep things on track... because I had to. And that's the role I have played with my ex, too. And there's nothing wrong with using these skills and traits in healthy relationships... but these qualities can be used in the wrong way with the wrong people... to keep them around.

I won't go on more because actually all of this information is a lot for me to take in, and I'm feeling very fragile and sore about this new revelation about my father in particular. It's bringing up memories, and old feelings... there's a deep sense of just not ever having people close to me (aside from some friends), who accepted me and loved me for who I am. The ones who are closest to me... hurt me the most. I have chosen partners who reinforce this story. And i allow my children and some friends to reinforce this story. I'm really ready to change the story... but still feeling like I've got a lot of work to do to build up strength and resilience to make all of the necessary changes. I know that I did a lot of this work years ago during therapy from a previous brush with Cluster B in my ex-husband's family. So I'm hoping that ground work will help in the overall journey.

[tina7868]

Hi seekingtheway, thank you for updating us on your journey. A big  to you as you progress. A kind reminder that it is normal and expected for there to be ups and downs along the way. The destination of peace and true understanding of yourself is one that can be paved towards during a lifetime. It`s a marathon, not a race.

I can relate to many aspects that you bring up, especially when it comes to how childhood experiences have predisposed you to take on a certain role in relationships. As you have implied, it isn`t wrong to be a forgiving and understanding person who is sensitive to how other people feel. I`m glad that you recognize that these are indeed qualities, aspects about yourself that you don`t need to change other than making sure you focus your energies on the right, deserving people.

First, I`m sorry. I`m sorry that you have been hurt by people close to you, and that you have had people throughout your life who have dismissed and invalidated you when they should have been helping you build yourself up and protected you. Second, it isn`t fair, and it isn`t your fault that they treated you this way.

You are a deeply insightful person who has contributed immensely to this community. It is clear from the way you interact with us, I really want you to recognize that. Keep at it, seekingtheway, you`re making a lot of progress and you are not alone.

[seekingtheway]

Awww thanks so much Tina. These were lovely words to read and I felt a bit emotional reading them because I do feel really alone and disconnected right now... I know it will pass and better things are ahead of this 'cracking open' process. But I so appreciate the supportive words. It really does help ❤️