Analyse and close the file. Pt. 2

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Link back to original thread can be found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357069.0

Unemployment is kicking my butt. Unemployment still isnt started (its still pending, my states programs suck)
Had another massive wave of "twisties" yesterday, no idea why, the cord is still there unfortenately though.

All this downtime is not helping me not live in my own head, and income and rent are huge problems.

Still, i feel this surge of optomism for spring. Like this is the "darkest before the dawn" moment.

Hammering job apps, fighting with state agencies, waiting.

[OKrunch]

Link back to original thread can be found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=357069.0

Unemployment is kicking my butt. Unemployment still isnt started (its still pending, my states programs suck)
Had another massive wave of "twisties" yesterday, no idea why, the cord is still there unfortenately though.

All this downtime is not helping me not live in my own head, and income and rent are huge problems.

Still, i feel this surge of optomism for spring. Like this is the "darkest before the dawn" moment.

Hammering job apps, fighting with state agencies, waiting.

[Augustine]

“Success is not final; failure isn’t fatal: it’s the courage to continue that counts.”

What you are experiencing is not forever.

I’m all too familiar with the sensation, as it was quite an epiphany to discover all my “friends” scurrying for safety like cockroaches when they learned of my misfortunes.

Getting back on my feet again is still at least a year away, as my investment in this ridiculous enterprise cost me dearly…in every sense.

In some respects, I’ll never find my footing again after what occurred.

So, in hopes that you will extract some solace from this: You are not alone.

The overwhelming majority of us have sat where you are now at some point.

The difficulties will pass.

[OKrunch]

“Success is not final; failure isn’t fatal: it’s the courage to continue that counts.”

Where is this quote from? I Love it.

What you are experiencing is not forever.

I’m all too familiar with the sensation, as it was quite an epiphany to discover all my “friends” scurrying for safety like cockroaches when they learned of my misfortunes.

Getting back on my feet again is still at least a year away, as my investment in this ridiculous enterprise cost me dearly…in every sense.

In some respects, I’ll never find my footing again after what occurred.

So, in hopes that you will extract some solace from this: You are not alone.

The overwhelming majority of us have sat where you are now at some point.

The difficulties will pass.

I have a similar mindset.
What feels like ages ago now, my ex wife and I split up in late 2017. The entirety of 2018 was couch-surfing, emotional wreck and recovery. Withing the first 2 months of 2019, I got a new Apartment, Job, and Car, later that year I met EXBPD, which at the time was an amazing life change (I had no idea what was in store for the future, otherwise I would have run for the hills!)
But, anyway, after a year of recovery and turmoil, I had every major aspect of my life reset.
I have been in my "new" apartment almost a year now, after the 6 months of camper living thanks to EXBPD, I am on the cusp of a new career path, whatever that may be, and it is just about time to get a new car (once a new job settles in).
It very much feels like this is the last stretch of hardship before a lot of new opportunities and new paths.

Right this second, life is pretty hard, but in a month or so, I am staunchy confident things will be 10000000 times better.

[Pook075]

That's life though- there's ups and downs, ebbs and flows.  We'd all love to live life on the highest peaks where everything is perfect all the time, but that's just not realistic.  We're always on the way to our next destination.

[OKrunch]

"....and the road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began"

[Augustine]

Where is this quote from? I Love it.

It’s one of Churchill’s

Right this second, life is pretty hard, but in a month or so, I am staunchy confident things will be 10000000 times better.

From your lips to God’s ears…for both you and I.

I’m living proof that those with high conscientiousness and integrity will, at the end of the day, discover that this is all that they will ever truly possess in this life.

The worst part for me was arriving back from the east coast after all the horrors I endured there, literally arriving with little more than the clothes on my back, to discover that my step-mother had held a remembrance service for my recently departed father…and hadn’t invited or notified  me.

That’s the problem when you’re on a downward trend, as you keep waiting breathlessly each day to reach the end of it.

It sounds like you’re like me: I’m still waiting.

[OKrunch]

It’s one of Churchill’s

Of course it is. I should've known that, as a war history buff. Although WC was a questionable charecter hahaha.
I still think he intentionally lead, or allowed, the Lusitania into harms way, hoping for America to join WW1. His comments after Pearl Harbor make me believe this even more.

From your lips to God’s ears…for both you and I.

I’m living proof that those with high conscientiousness and integrity will, at the end of the day, discover that this is all that they will ever truly possess in this life.

Ignorance sure seems like bliss sometimes, and often it seems more apealling than knowing the truths of the world.

The worst part for me was arriving back from the east coast after all the horrors I endured there, literally arriving with little more than the clothes on my back, to discover that my step-mother had held a remembrance service for my recently departed father…and hadn’t invited or notified  me.

That’s the problem when you’re on a downward trend, as you keep waiting breathlessly each day to reach the end of it.

It sounds like you’re like me: I’m still waiting.

Condolences for your father, She sounds like she displays some classic "me me me" boomerisms, I'm sure your Step Mom was very wrapped up on how SHE felt, screw anyone elses grief.
May he find Glory in Valhalla.

I truly believe (as im sure you've seen) in cycles, seasons and patterns.
I have such a strong gut feeling that Spring will bring all the renewal I need, and I believe it will do so for you as well.

[Augustine]

May he find Glory in Valhalla.

At a minimum, he’s finally getting a well-deserved break from his slattern’s interminable whinging.

I truly believe (as im sure you've seen) in cycles, seasons and patterns.
I have such a strong gut feeling that Spring will bring all the renewal I need, and I believe it will do so for you as well.

Yes, I do too, and mine occur at 2n + 1 year intervals. The major ones occurring at 5, the minor ones at 3…without fail.

Before the largest forest fire in Nova Scotia’s history started (It eventually steered a course right for my house…naturally), and before the night of my end-of-relationship denouement, I had noted that my last cataclysmic period was five years earlier.

Like you, I have a very strong instincts regarding the immediate future…

And I think it's gonna be all right
Yeah, the worst is over now
The mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball

We’ll compare notes at this time next year when we’re both well and clear of this utter BS period in our lives, raising a toast to each other in celebration.

[OKrunch]

I daresay in a years time we will both be florishing and laughing.

[OKrunch]

Still pretty amazed how long these things linger.
We have been fully NC for almost 6 months now, which is sooo much longer than any stretch of time weve been NC since we met in 2019.

It has made me always expect the other shoe to drop. Like a shell shocked doughboy, even though there has been nothing for months now, I STILL seem to expect it.
I even admit to mixed feelings about this. As much as I want peace, and new chapters, the feeling of having been totally forgotten and hated is still kinda crappy.

I know in the grand scheme of things, 6 months of NC isn't a huge deal, but after 4 years of off/on, hot/cold, love/hate, passion/rage, the silence is awfully loud.
Also, being lonley doesn't help, and the dogs have been on my mind a lot.
One thing I can say for sure, is that I do not miss being yelled at, or having to guess what mood I was waking up to or walking into after work, but I do miss family moments, a full busy household, and the memories have been flashing through my head like wildfire this week.

This all might just be due to idleness too, I haven't had a job since Feb 3rd, and all this time on my hands has made my mind run.

Spring is literal weeks away. DST is next week.
Darkest before the dawn and all that.

[OKrunch]

Woke today with a profound feeling of emptiness, and a strong desire to break NC.
It has been a long time since I was tempted to reach out, and I am a bit baffled as to why that was a thing I had to resist today. Despite months of NC, and well over a year since we split, I am quite frustrated that its all still on my mind as often as it is.
It still feels like "its not over yet" sometimes, which makes no sense to me.


The sun is out today, after many days of cold and rain. I will enjoy that.

[kells76]

Tell me some more about your personal experience of your feelings, desires, and emotions.

Where do they come from?

What makes them happen?

What level of control do you experience over those feelings and desires?

Do you find that you tend more towards noticing/observing feelings (detachment/"meta"), experiencing/"going along for the ride" (total immersion), or somewhere in the middle?

[once removed]

It still feels like "its not over yet" sometimes, which makes no sense to me.

could it be because you havent accepted that the relationship is over, and allowed yourself to grieve it?

it seems simple enough to grasp logically. its not like i needed further evidence in my case; my ex was in another relationship. many months had gone by. facing it on an emotional level is far harder. i was waiting for her relationship to end, or for the day to come that i could say my piece, or reject her, or that shed come back to me, or...

my pain persisted because i wasnt really ready to accept that it was over, and that she was long gone, and to shift the focus to grieving my loss and recovering from it. time will not do that for you; it will dull the pain, but it will not heal your wounds, or help you to make the emotional commitment of letting her go. it will persist.

when i finally acknowledged that it was over, i cried like a baby. one of the hardest things i ever did. and then, slowly but surely, as i felt the loss and grieved it, i began to heal.

Part of me still wants to know I meant something, at least fleetingly to her.

"Did i ever matter to her?

at the end of the day, deep down, you do know this. it may be hard to square, with the sense of rejection you feel, the volatile way in which it ended, the wound to your ego, the fact that you didnt want the end to happen. but it is obvious, self evident, plain as day, that you meant something to her, and mattered to her, deeply. that wasnt enough to sustain the relationship.

what happened to you was the logical conclusion of a dysfunctional relationship. it was broken beyond repair. for all of the good, all of the wonderful memories, the two of you together could not make it work. you tried; both of you did, for a very long time, in spite of the pain you caused each other. that didnt happen because you didnt mean anything to her, or didnt mean anything to each other.

it was a death of natural causes. when you are in a dysfunctional relationship, there are three possibilities: 1. one or both parties is able to switch gears and direct the relationship onto a healthier trajectory 2. the relationship persists, whether for years, decades, or forever, because it "works" in its own dysfunction 3. the tension boils over and the relationship implodes. in this case, it was #2, and then #3, because #1 wasnt possible; it wasnt meant to be. and regardless, for all of us, in the healthiest of situations, every last one of our relationships will end except for the last, because they werent meant to be.

think back to when she contacted you to give you the news. you were furious. it seemed insensitive. it felt intentionally done to hurt you. deep down, you were devastated. you werent ready for it, and you still arent. but think about it: what other outcome was there? the two of you had been trying to make some form of the relationship work, although you couldnt agree on what that looked like. you told her, in no uncertain terms, that if there were someone else, to let you know, and that you couldnt be friends with her, youd have nothing to do with her.

thats what happened. she did just as you asked.

that didnt make it less painful, im sure, and it probably doesnt now. breaking up isnt easy. when you are invested as you were, in a relationship as complicated as it was, far less so. but by refusing to see it, and looking in any direction to validate your pain, your pain is persisting, and it will continue to do so, even as it becomes less acute.

these fleeting memories you describe, the urge to break NC, the desire for her relationship to end, thereby validating you, the fantasies of rejecting her or telling her off, the dogs, the kids, all of it...

it is grief, OKrunch. it is your psyche trying to acknowledge and process the loss (not something like symptoms to wait for and wonder why they dont go away), and it will persist for as long as you continue to avoid it.

if i could give just one piece of advice to anyone who has ever been here, and struggled with these wounds, it would be to fully grieve the relationship. grief is complicated, and for any one person, for any number of reasons, it may take longer to do (if it ever happens, and in many cases it doesnt), but when you are able to do that, it will hurt like holy hell. and then, slowly but surely, you will heal. better, wiser, stronger than before, with a heart with an even greater capacity to give and receive love.

[OKrunch]

I wanted to take some time away from the board.
I was wondering if it was part of what was keeping this all in my head.
It was not.

I feel shackled, stuck.
I have spent a long time detaching, and clearing the dissonance between my
"logical thoughts" and "emotional thoughts.

I used to want her back, I don't any more.
I used to be so angry about all she did, it's in the past. Holding a grudge didn't help me and I left that behind.
I chalked the things I missed up to loss, like the dogs, our house, and the kids being together.
It sucked to lose them, but we all lose things in life, and life goes on.
For a long time, I was desperate for some attention and dating from other people.
I was looking for the comfort of a rebound. In the last few months, that desire has faded and I am happy on my own and focusing on improving my life, and that of my son.

With all that said, here is why i feel shackled.
I feel like I took all the steps, and did all i needed to to detach and leave this behind me.
Thoughts and memories no longer emotionally cripple me, in fact they are only a minor annoyance I wish to be rid of, and that is just it.
They won't go away.
I used to pine over the memories because I missed them, and I missed her.
Now they just pop in my head to seemingly annoy me, or something. Who knows.

Despite feeling the most healed and furthest along in this process I ever have been, I feel more stuck now than I did months or even a year ago.
Then, I had goals to work on, and steps to take, to detach, and emotionally handle all of it.
I feel like that was accomplished months ago, and yet the memories and intrusive thoughts persist.
I only now have anger with myself, for still being stuck at this last step.

Why do i still constantly think about someone I don't want back, don't want to hear from, and recognize I am generally better off without her in my life.
Then there are the "twisties" or "gut feelings", when it feels like I can sense her bad moods, anger, or sadness, despite distance and months having not spoken.
It will come out of nowhere, and i can instantly tell "its hers"
It feels different, very different, from my own emotions and emotional responses.

So it feels like there is still part of this story left to unfold, and that there is still a strong spiritual connection between us, despite the circumstances. It feels like something is coming down the pipes, and I do not like it.
I have felt like that before, and been right.

I just want to know this book is over, and leave it on the shelf where it belongs.
Yet The Universe seems to disagree.
I really REALLY hope I am misreading these signs.
I just want peace, and I forget what it feels like.

[Pook075]

I just want to know this book is over, and leave it on the shelf where it belongs.

Hey buddy.  I'm in the exact same position- my feelings for my ex are gone and I really dislike the person she now is.  However, looking back, it's the same person that she's been for years.  I think that says more about me than her, to be honest.  At least the codependency is gone and my eyes are wide open.

At times, I still think about her.  I do it subconsciously and when I catch myself in that mindset, I get mad at myself.  This happens daily still and I understand that it's on me to let that go.  Once we sell the house and pay off debts (hopefully in the next 2-4 weeks), I honestly don't care if I ever speak to her again.

The book is over once YOU decide that it's over.  Because at the end of the day, you get to choose.  Choose being stuck, or choose moving on.  It's a choice.

[OKrunch]

The book is over once YOU decide that it's over.  Because at the end of the day, you get to choose.  Choose being stuck, or choose moving on.  It's a choice.

That's my hurdle right now. I chose to be over it ages ago, AND did the work to get there.
It feels like a rash at this point. I wish it were a choice, but a light-switch, it is not.
I don't choose or allow the intrusive thoughts, or the times I can feel her emotional chaos from across the Aether.
When these things happen, I center myself, reset, and move on, ignoring them.
Not having to bother doing that because the intrusive thoughts and invasive emotions literally aren't happening anymore, is my goal.

[once removed]

I feel shackled, stuck.

it happens. it can take some time to work through it when it does, but we can get there.

looking at the Stages of Detachment, which stage would you say you are in: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=332589.0

I used to want her back, I don't any more.
I used to be so angry about all she did, it's in the past. Holding a grudge didn't help me and I left that behind.
I chalked the things I missed up to loss, like the dogs, our house, and the kids being together.
It sucked to lose them, but we all lose things in life, and life goes on.
For a long time, I was desperate for some attention and dating from other people.
I was looking for the comfort of a rebound. In the last few months, that desire has faded and I am happy on my own and focusing on improving my life, and that of my son.

these things are all progress, and part of healing. they follow a reasonably typical approach/process to coping with the aftermath of these brutal breakups. im not saying the way you feel now doesnt take precedent, just not to discount that; its important to remind ourselves of when we are at our worst.

I feel like I took all the steps, and did all i needed to to detach and leave this behind me.
Thoughts and memories no longer emotionally cripple me, in fact they are only a minor annoyance I wish to be rid of, and that is just it.
They won't go away.
...
I only now have anger with myself, for still being stuck at this last step.

im not sure that its realistic to expect not to think of her. the Freedom stage of Detaching isnt "to no longer have thoughts or feelings about the person", but to get to the point where, such as they are, they dont interfere with your overall feelings of well being.

if she were dead (relationship endings can be like a death), you probably wouldnt be trying to banish thoughts of her, or beating yourself up for having them, right? sure, you would want to manage them and increasingly not be consumed with grief, but nobody kicks themselves when it happens.

there may be antiquated thinking at play here. my grandfather is a person that is very much that way; if someone hurts you, theyre kicked to the curb. its a waste of thoughts, feelings and time, to feel anything toward that person. thats an ego/protective response. initially, i approached my breakup the same way; "hey, she cheated on me, dropped me for someone else, left me in the dust, after everything i did. im the one thats better off".

except that humans and relationships are significantly more complex than that. it sucks to feel the way we do for someone that has hurt us - which is where it differs from a death - but that vulnerability, that ability to sit with those feelings without judgment, is how we process and work through it.

So it feels like there is still part of this story left to unfold, and that there is still a strong spiritual connection between us, despite the circumstances. It feels like something is coming down the pipes, and I do not like it.
I have felt like that before, and been right.

I just want to know this book is over, and leave it on the shelf where it belongs.

here is the part i could use some help in understanding.

my ex and i have not spoken since our breakup over 11 years ago. she could contact me at any time. i certainly dont expect her to, but it could happen.

there could be something coming down the pipes for you. it hasnt, thus far, and it may not, but it could.

im not understanding how the knowledge that something could happen precludes moving forward in Detaching, or has any bearing on you, beyond how you might or might not respond to it. certainly, if you are done with the relationship, i dont see the threat or the need for vigilance. and if it may not come, im not seeing the point in anticipating it. that can certainly keep you from moving forward.

i know you cant predict the future, but play it out in your mind. what sort of things do you foresee coming down the pipeline? what do they look like, and how do they play out when you visualize them?

[OKrunch]

The gut feelings have increased over the week, I had the urge to break no contact yesterday evening completely out of the blue.
I didn't do it, super glad I didn't, but It was a near thing. I would have been so pissed at myself if I had messed up that many months of progress and self control.

Still cant shake the feeling something is looming, but I am trying not to focus on it.
Spring is finally here, and I am meeting new people, and trying to broaden my horizons.

I have a feeling I will land a job soon, finally heard a "No" from the one I had been waiting to hear fromm which sucked, but I'll look elsewhere.

[stolencrumbs]

Hey Crunch,
I think I've maybe commented before on a post of yours, but I've followed along way more than I've commented. I wanted to throw something out there that may be helpful. If not, just ignore it. There's just a lot in what you're saying that resonates with my experience, and maybe something in here can help. This isn't really a response to a particular post as much as a response to a general theme I see in a lot of your posts. Anyway...

I know this thread started a long time ago, but I think the title of it gets at something that may be worth thinking about. I am very skeptical that "analyzing" this is going to move you forward or lead to "closing the file." (For context, I am a professional philosopher--analytic philosophy at that. I have literally spent my entire adult life analyzing things. It is very much my nature and my first, second, and third instinct.) I guess rather than say what I think might be wrong with thinking like this, I'll just tell you how it worked for me. I definitely thought my analytic, logical side was the superior side. It was the right way to think. It was smart and rational and all that. I saw the "emotional" side as lesser and probably as weak. It was something to be beaten back, ignored, angry at, dismissed, etc. It took me a long time and a good therapist over many years to realize that this is not accurate and is probably about as wrong as I could have been.

That "emotional" part of me was as much me as anything else. It had some needs and some bad ways of trying to get those needs met, but it wasn't a weak, irrational idiot that my logical mind needed to keep in submission. What I needed to do was to understand what that other part of me was telling me. What it was trying to accomplish. How it thought it was helping. And then work with that part and make it part of the whole. The logical side is also only part of the whole. You need all of it to work together.

What I see in your posts is lot of prioritizing the logical thoughts and dismissing the other things. You sometimes get angry at those other thoughts, ignore those other thoughts, or attribute them to cosmic messages in the universe. Based on my experience, I would suggest that a place to start and a way to reframe things is to start paying more attention to that other part of you and try to understand it better.

Again, no idea if that makes sense for you or something that resonates at all. I know everyone's experience is different and what I needed may not be what you need. If it resonates at all, I'd be happy to try to say more or share more about my own experience with trying to navigate all of this. 

[OKrunch]

For some reason, her boyfriend reached out to me again, this time he called from her phone. I didn't answer it first, and then I texted afterwards asking why she called. Got another phone call, and answered this one, and was immediately met with more irate vulgarity. I promptly hung up the phone.

I then got a stream of text messages of a similar vulgarity, him telling me to leave them alone, I told him that I haven't reached out in any way shape or form and have no desire to. He insulted me in every way his small mind could imagine to do so, told me to kill myself, bragged that he "put a ring on it",  and insinuated that I had been abusive when I was with her.
And then the most interesting bit, asked me "where my anger was" after bragging about getting engaged.
I was very calm and dismissive throughout the entire thing.

I think I was expected to have gotten angry and or jealous.

With all of the things he said, about a person he's never met (me), it is quite astonishing the level of which the smear campaign is apparently gone.

A few hours later, she texted me and told me they were engaged and to leave them alone, I reiterated that I had not reached out in any way shape or form and I didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

I've been minding my own business and living my own life, the need to triangulate is very real apparently.

I went through and double checked to make sure everything was now blocked, as I thought her number had been.

Crazy.

[Turkish]

So weird, good to confirm the blocks. They sound like they're made for each other.

Despite the blocks, can they contact you otherwise?

Put a ring on it... very immature. Life isn't a Beyonce song.

[OKrunch]

The only way they could contact me at this point would be physically coming to my house, which, after the arguments that happened, I know they won't do.
They know I'd call the cops.

Oh Turkish, that was honestly one of the most mature and coherent things he said to me. If you can call what I experienced "Speaking".
He kept repeating things like "come to the house, ill mess you up" "prove it tough guy, come here and say that" (my response to that : "Why would I come fight you, that doesn't even make sense. How old are you? Do you understand how stupid talking like that makes you sound? I don't have time for your childish games." Then I blocked) . He is only capable of understanding threats and schoolyard bullying.
The only other things he said were typical machismo insults. Called me a B**ch, PU**Y, and told me to kill myself. Other gems like "I've heard what a PU**Y loser you are".
He also insinuated she had told him I was abusive in the past, I am sure she failed to mention it was the other way around.

My assumption here is that whenever things get shaky at her house, she brings me up or claims I did something So he will be distracted or sidebarred by going into a defensive and insecure rage.

My biggest takeaway from the few interactions we've had since October is this.

The person I knew, cared about, and loved was not actually her, but just her mirroring and idolizing me. Conversely, its the same now with him.
she lowered her standards, opinions, interests and morals to be with the first person she found exciting. I've seen her do this before.
the true version of her is the brooding, depressed, angry and affronted person i came to know at the end of each of our relationships. The cold, uncaring person I saw over last year, who would use me for moral support, sex and help, but ghost otherwise.
The selfish, petulant child.
That's her.

I will never stoop myself to his level, or to hers, to ever disrespect myself by entertaining this childish drama bologna ever again. She is entirely dead to me, and the complete lack of emotional response to this fiasco on my end finally proved that to me.
So honestly, I am kind of grateful it happened.

Love, truly is blind.
It's nice to see again. 

[Pook075]

This is the 3rd time he's called issuing threats and insults, it may be a good time to file a restraining order against both of them.  He does not sound the least bit stable.

[OKrunch]

This is the 3rd time he's called issuing threats and insults, it may be a good time to file a restraining order against both of them.  He does not sound the least bit stable.

If it ever occurs again I'm going to.
I saved all the screenshots.