How to respond to extortion/threats.

[Strawberry29]

For those who read my previous posts, as expected my "honeymoon" with my sibling lasted very little. The triggers that escalated the situation were absolutely impossible to avoid for me, so have no remorse whatsoever at least this time. However, now the situation is quite dire again.
Short recap: he lives with my parents and has been moved a couple of years back into a smaller room, as he is single and I have family so my mom thought we needed more space. At the time I almost "fought" with my mom, as it was superclear that would be a trigger, but she heard no reasons. This was the trigegr again this time: a couple of weeks back he suddenly started talking about having mould in his room, and I immediately understood where this was going. One night he calls the ambulance, saying he has trouble breathing, and sends me a text saying "by the time I am back, you need to have talked with mom and told her I should be moved downstairs". I gently said I had already told what I thought to mom several times and that it was not my responsibility... He responded saying "then I don't want to see you again".
Now, the new topic: I am going to visit my parents over Easter. He has no money to go anywhere, and insists he is going to stay in his room "without leaving it to eat nor go to the loo" and so he will "stop eating 3 days before, and don't eat until we leave". Obviously this makes no sense, and sounds like just a threat/extortion to do what he wants me to do, that is either go to a hotel (no way I will hurt my parents by doing so) or give him money to leave (no way I give him money to enable his hurting me).
At the same time, if I know him well, he might go ahead and do it, and that will leave me superworried/anxious for the whole week I am there. I have no idea whatsoever what to do. I literally did nothing wrong to him, so don't think he has any "right" to say I should not go and as I said I don't have any intention of hurting my parents... At the same time I don't want him to hurt himself, but not sure how I can avoid this. I know this is him and I cannot force him, but I feel like this is supertricky.
How should I respond to this sort of threat/extortion?

[Pook075]

I have no idea whatsoever what to do.

What you should do is have a great Easter with your family and allow your brother to do whatever the heck he wants to do.  If he decides not to leave the room for three days...great!  Let him punish himself.  This has nothing to do with you and you must stop allowing him to manipulate you.

If you're worried about whether or not he'll eat or pee...well, that's his problem.  Don't make his stubborn demands your problem and don't let it ruin your weekend.

[CC43]

Strawberry,

If I remember correctly, your brother is in his 40s, correct?  I think you shouldn't spend one second worrying.  If you must answer him, you could say, "You're an adult, and what you do when I visit is up to you," and leave it at that.

If your brother is anything like a disordered person in my life, he will enjoy urinating in a bucket or bottle in his room (because it's convenient and he avoids contact with family members), and he will eat from his stash of snacks.  I don't think you have anything to worry about.  In fact, I bet he won't go hungry and he won't be uncomfortable with his poor hygiene.  He's just trying to get attention and to get what he wants by acting like a surly teen.

[Methuen]

So if he's 40 years old and living at home, or with your parents support somewhere else, it's up to him and them to sort that out.  You are doing well to stay off that triangle.

Has he tried cleaning the mould with a bleach solution?  Or is it so bad it's a public health hazard?  OR, is there even any mould?

He has no money to go anywhere, and insists he is going to stay in his room "without leaving it to eat nor go to the loo" and so he will "stop eating 3 days before, and don't eat until we leave". Obviously this makes no sense, and sounds like just a threat/extortion to do what he wants me to do, that is either go to a hotel (no way I will hurt my parents by doing so) or give him money to leave (no way I give him money to enable his hurting me).

So I'm trying to understand the problem here, and it sounds like he needs to move to another smaller room temporarily while you and your family come to visit over Easter?  Have I got that right? 

If yes, this is a very reasonable thing for a family member to do when more people are coming - shuffle rooms to meet the needs for space according to the number of people staying in the room.

His "threat" is ridiculous, and reminds me of something a preschooler might say.  Don't take the bait.  Like Pook, I say go enjoy Easter with your parents.  If he chooses to stay in his room and not eat or go to the loo for 3 days, that's up to him as an adult.  I hope your parents can stay out of his drama as well. Don't try to argue with him. He can be invited to meals and to join for visiting.  But if he chooses to stay in his room, then let him do it. If he doesn't get a whack of attention for his behavior, and everyone else is having a good time, he'll figure out that his emotional blackmail strategy isn't working for him any more. 
 
If your worry/anxiety/guilt starts to get away from you, go for a walk or get out of the house to do fun things with your family, so you can get yourself regulated again.  I find it helps me to also remember that those feelings of mine are temporary and will get better, even if he doesn't. Only he can do the work to get himself better. 

I also have learned it's not my responsibility to fix the feelings of my pwBPD.  Trying to be reasonable doesn't work.  Just let them do what they need to do (in your brother's case threaten not eat or pee for 3 days) because sometimes they just need to learn the hard way.  Nothing you can do about that.  It's up to him to figure out.

Let us know how it goes.

[Strawberry29]

Thanks all!
Yes, he's around that age. I totally understand all your comments, and theoretically I know this is what I should do. Just to clarify, he threatens to stay off food for about 10 days, which is why I am still worried, as that would be a bit of a risk for his health. Not saying it's going to kill him, but won't even do him well. So, knowing that if, eg, somebody threatens to kill themselves you should call 999 straight away, I was wondering if I should do something similar at some point...

Regarding the other 2 questions: I did tell him how to solve the mould issue, and spent 2 days explaining and everything, but I knew it was just an excuse. I also immediately understood the breathing problems were a panic attack, and in the end he admitted that's what they told him at the hospital (he admitted it only because he needed to use it as an attack on me "because of you I am having panic attacks").
The room thing is not temporary. My mum swapped rooms and doesn't want him to go back even when we are away because she knows that if you give him a finger he will take finger, hand, arm and shoulder.

[Pook075]

Just to clarify, he threatens to stay off food for about 10 days, which is why I am still worried, as that would be a bit of a risk for his health.

Just to clarify, threatening something is not actually doing something.  It's manipulation to get what he wants.  And he does this because it's always worked in the past, because you respond with grave concern.  That's being a good brother, don't get me wrong, but that's also enabling him to continue acting like a spoiled child.

If he starves, that's his decision.  But he's not going to starve and everyone knows that.  Call his bluff so you can know that as well.

[Notwendy]

Your brother is an adult and so is responsible for his own body functions- eating, going to the loo. If he truly stops eating and is going to the bathroom in his own space, this is a need for professional help and if you feel he is being a danger to himself- your role is to call for emergency help.

These could also be empty threats. You are coming to spend Easter with your parents. These antics could turn all the attention on to him. My BPD mother has also acted up during special occasions when attention isn't on her.

How to respond to his threats? Ignore them.

But you have feelings and concerns so you need to have a plan for how to respond to his behaviors. There are two tasks here at hand. What to do about your brother acting up and how to have a nice Easter with your parents. I think staying in the house the entire time could be problematic as he could act up and disrupt the visit.

One idea is to spend some time out of the house. Brother can come along or he can stay at home alone and do his own thing. Going to church if your family does that is one way to get out of the house. Visiting friends- maybe doing a pot luck meal with someone else at their house, or a picnic at a park if the weather permits?

If brother truly doesn't eat or drink, he needs to go to hospital. Call for emergency to come get him.

He wants attention and he's acting like a younger child. Kids want attention and if they can't get it in positive way, they will act out. Any attention, even negative attention, is preferable to being ignored. Acting out is probably a main way he gets attention. One idea I had for a family occasion was to hire a caretaker/companion for my mother. This way, she had constant attention one on one. This helped a lot. On one hand it could be perceived as enabling to do this but for me, I saw it as an investment in my own peace of mind during the event and well worth the cost.

Your brother may not need a caregiver but what can you do to bring yourself some peace of mind?

Is the hotel idea a standoff- because being in the house together might be stressful for you. I started to stay at a hotel when visiting my parents because staying in the house with BPD mother was stressful for both of us. She likes to be in control of her own environment and having people in the house made her feel less in control. I also felt I needed a space away from her.

Your brother's dependency on your parents is a long term situation and the room issue is between them. You won't solve this in a weekend visit. In some way, your visit is stepping into this Karpman triangle with this situation. You don't want to hurt your parents but - what is going to work best? You staying there or somewhere else?

[Strawberry29]

Many thanks both!

Pook, yes I see that! I know he's saying this just to make me do what he wants. But if I know him well, from other things he has done in the past few years since I stopped always enabling him, he is going to go ahead with it, because he did not expect me to resist and he's going to stubbornly do it in order not to admit he was just saying it for blackmailing me. But we'll see, maybe this time it really is just a bluff...

Notwendy,  I don't think going elsewhere to sleep would change much! My plan would be to spend anyway most of the time there, for various reasons (mainly to help them as they have serious health issues and are old, so at least when I am there I want to be of help!). So the only difference would come when we sleep, so it would not really affect us! But it would affect my parents quite a lot for a series of reasons.

I suppose the main risk is if he acts up or does something. I have small children and don't really want them to witness anything too bad/scary. But I think if something like that happened, probably my parents would finally find the ocurage to kick him out, as it would really cross a line. (Which is why he never did that so far, I think, because he knows it as well...)

[Pook075]

Pook, yes I see that! I know he's saying this just to make me do what he wants. But if I know him well, from other things he has done in the past few years since I stopped always enabling him, he is going to go ahead with it, because he did not expect me to resist and he's going to stubbornly do it in order not to admit he was just saying it for blackmailing me. But we'll see, maybe this time it really is just a bluff...

When he said it, I'm sure it wasn't a bluff.  Again though, that has nothing to do with you or your family.  Let him do whatever he wants; he is a grown man and can face the consequences for his actions.  If you do anything different to accommodate him, then you're rewarding bad behavior and encouraging more of it in the future.

You know what the absolute best outcome here would be? 

Scenario #1- You arrive, he does eat for days and pees all over the room.  Your parents call an ambulance and he's admitted to the hospital, then transferred to a psych ward.

Scenario #2- You arrive, your brother keeps his distance, but eventually eats with the family.

In either scenario, everyone wins.

You know what the worst outcome would be?

Scenario #1- Your brother throws a tantrum, refuses to eat, and you make other accommodations to placate him.

In this scenario, everyone loses...especially your parents that have to deal with the aftermath of your entitled brother.  This would be the worst-case scenario because it becomes the new holiday tradition- you're not welcome at your parents house even though your parents want you there.

[Notwendy]

Family dynamics take on their own patterns. Since these are the "normal" for us, we are not as aware of our own role in them. When there is a disordered person in the family, other members who are not disordered take on possibly disordered roles to compensate. I was not aware of my part in the family dynamics until I did a lot of work on co-dependency.

There's some serious disorder going on with your brother. A man in his 40's threatening to not eat and not use the bathroom so that he can have a different room in the house he lives in with his parents- this is serious disorder. My best guess is that your parents are enabling him in some ways and he has power over them by their fear he will self harm or not be able to make it on his own- which is likely. Has he been evaluated for other issues- intellectual disability, autism, other mental illness?

There is also likely some resentment on his part for you being the "normal one" and being independent. He and your parents are in a sort of balance ( if you can call it that). Your coming to visit is a change in dynamics. You may be in "good guy" position to your parents and he may try to compete for center stage. He can't compete in a positive way but he can turn the attention on to himself by escalating the behaviors that scare your parents- not eating, not using the loo.

Trying to "rescue" your parents can be stepping on the Karmpan triangle in the family- be aware.

It's a good thing to want to help your parents and be of help if they have health issues. You also have small children. How will you manage to both help your parents and also look after them?

You can't control what your brother does. I think it would help to have a plan about what to do in the case he acts up. I agree with - if he stops eating and pees in his room- call 911, this is a psyciatric situation. Do no placate him.

While you are concerned for your parents' feelings, your main job is to protect your own children. Everyone else in this situation is an adult and is responsible for their own actions and feelings. If at any point, your kids are exposed to a upsetting or harmful situation, get them out- even if it means taking them to a hotel. You are not obligated to compromise your children on the basis of not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings.

Your parents are part of this dysfunction too. They are enabling your brother and allowing him to stay in their home with his behavior. If the consequence of this choice is that it isn't a safe place for you and your kids to stay- that is their choice, not yours.

I truly understand wanting to stay in good graces with your parents but this might not be a situation where it's possible to please everyone.

[Strawberry29]

This has been so helpful, thanks!

Pook, these scenarios sound reasonable, and I hope we can reach 1 or 2. Until a couple of years back, I would ahve been sure he would have capitulated and done 2. Now I am not that sure anymore, so I think it's important to start to accept the good outcome might be 1 in this case.

Notwendy, helpful as always, and I think you understood very well many things just from my story. I do think he's somehow "jealous" of my "normality" and of other things, and seems to suffer my presence because of that at times. When that happens, he tends to try and see any possible bad thing in me through projection or through re-analysis of insignificant (for me) past events that should prove I am a monster and not worthy of seeing. Just today he reiterated he's not going to see me and started listign as reason things like I did not add him to the Whatsapp group of my wife's family, I did not go out for dinner with him one night 12 years ago or I did not give him on my initiative 5,000$ to go visit his biological parents when he found out they were alive. These are all things that make no sense to me, but I am starting to understand basically these are sort of "pictures" in his head that made him suffer and that were related to me (although I don't think any reasonable person would accuse me of these things specifically, but his feelings at the time were such and were not rational of course).

Yes, I definitely have a rule with my wife that as soon as something bad happens, we are going to leave with children. I really hope that will never happen, I don't want to hurt my parents, but if it does happen I think what this will mean is that they will kick my brother out.
They haven't done it already for at least 2 reasons: 1) I think there is "guilt" in knowing he can't cope by himself. And 2) law in our country is such that you cannot kick your children out even if they are grown ups unless they reached economical independence, which he never did. Of course, social services might be alerted because of his condition, but the process would be much longer and the situation in the meantime incredibly tough.

I don't know if he has other conditions. Technically I don't even know for sure he has BPD (though he has literally every single one of the 9 symptoms usually listed). He went to therapy few times, but never wanted to talk about it. The only thing I know is at some point bipolar was part of the diagnosis, although to be honest I tend to think it was a misdiagnosis for BPD for a series of reasons. But I know these things are never black or white, there are shades of grey between various diasorders, so he might have traits of other conditions, although none as clear as the BPD ones.

[Notwendy]

Surely your parents and brother are frustrated with this situation. I suspect your parents are fearful for him if they ask him to leave. It's difficult. They are probably worried about him being on the streets. While supporting him is also enabling, it eases their worries too.

What is confusing about BPD is the ability to pull it together for brief periods and so they appear competent. BPD is on a spectrum and some people can be high functioning. For my BPD mother- she is significantly affected even if she can pass for legally competent. There is no way she could manage on her own. In her situation, she fit cultural expectations better than your brother, as in her era, most married women didn't work outside the home. Their work in the home was significant but for my mother, she was not able to manage either. Yet, nobody who knew her outside the family would have realized it.

It may be time to take a serious look at your brother's competency. If you are in the US, he may be eligible for social security disability and Medicaid for health insurance.  It may take time to access social services but applying now while he's at home to get services may help. If your parents have health concerns now, they are probably also concerned about their own care in their elder years and also what your brother might need.

Holding him to the standards of "normal" at this point may be unrealistic. This could be difficult with him as the denial and need to appear normal may interfere with him getting services but if he's willing to start the process, it could help him and your parents.

On his part, it must be difficult to not be able to meet what is considered "normal" at his age- which is to be independent. Avoidance of shame is a part of the behaviors too. One thing we could not do is insinuate that BPD mother can't do something. She will refuse a task or get someone to do it for her rather than reveal she can't do it. When you visit your parents, it's a contrast to your brother and probably an emotional trigger for him. This doesn't mean you don't visit. Your parents will be very happy to see you. But being aware of the emotional situation may help.

[Strawberry29]

All makes sense! Unfortunately, he's in complete denial right now about having any disorder, so he does not want at all to go through all that. I am not based in the US, here there used to be even just benefits for people without a job (completely unrelated of any condition, open to everyone, not much, but some 500$ that could help) and he always refused to apply for it because "it is humiliating". Never understood why asking money to us repeatedly was less humiliating, but I suppose there is some mechanism...

BTW, as expected now that our arrival is approaching he's more and more inflamed. Today, he started writing me that I had to scold mum because she mistreated dad. He kept repeating I had to call her and tell her this and that. I firmly refused to be triangulated in, and as expected in exchange I received a stream of "you let dad be abused", "You became an awful person", and so on. I tried very hard to be firm and short, and yet he found something to blame me for. I simply said that I refused to be triangulated in and that, although I knew that he was acting out of fear and love of dad, this sort of behavior was hurting both of us. He started saying I gave him a shock with these words, on top of the one I was inflicting him by going to visit them...
I expect the next few days to be very, VERY, tough. Though I am noticing a lot of the things I am learning here and on books I am reading are helping me be less anxious.
This has finally convinced me to contact a therapist, and will start as soon as back from holidays.

[wantmorepeace]

People with UBPD are amazingly good at finding a way to blame others.  Does not reflect on you!

[Pook075]

This has finally convinced me to contact a therapist, and will start as soon as back from holidays.

When someone suffers from mental illness, it's rare that they think to themselves, "I'm way off base with my thinking and need help."  Instead, they simply think that they're right and everyone else around them has the problems.

With your brother, he's comfortable in his own little world where he gets to push your parents around and make ridiculous demands.  For that to change, they have to confront him and reject that behavior...which in turn brings much worse initial behavior (because he believes he's right...how dare they?!?).  In 999 instances out of a 1,000, things will get worse before they can begin to get better.

So this approaching week with your brother, he's acting predictably and pushing back on every boundary...which is expected, it's normal.  If all of you stand firm, then his behavior is probably going to get worse...which could be a very good thing long-term.  If he escalates by threatening harm (to himself or others), you call an ambulance and have him taken off.  He will rage (again, it's normal and expected) trying to manipulate the situation, but you stand firm just like you would with anyone else. 

Right is right.  Wrong is wrong.  So the "worst" thing that could happen next week is getting your brother placed in a facility to help him deal with BPD head-on.  The "best" thing is that he backs down and it's an enjoyable week.  Either way, you can have a good week if you maintain healthy boundaries.

[Strawberry29]

Update: a LOT happened before and after I went there. Literally NOTHING happened while I was there.
The days before I arrived were quite tough, then the day before our dad felt bad and had to be admitted again to hospital, so in our common concern we seemed to be peaceful again and I almost thought he would show himself up. Then he had the genious idea of breaking into the famous room to go to sleep while my parents were at A&E... Huge fight ensued of course.

BTW, from the day we arrived to the moment we left, he was inside his room and you could not hear a sound. But, he was clearly leaving the room at night, so I suspect he was eating regularly, my mum says stuff was disappearing...

The thing I am at a loss at understanding, though, is that the day after I left, he started texting me all friendly as if he had not just been hidden in his room for a week not to see me.

[kells76]

Oof, what a weekend. Glad that nothing happened while you were there, though!

BTW, from the day we arrived to the moment we left, he was inside his room and you could not hear a sound. But, he was clearly leaving the room at night, so I suspect he was eating regularly, my mum says stuff was disappearing...

Sounds like he is able to solve his own problems, when it really comes down to it.

The thing I am at a loss at understanding, though, is that the day after I left, he started texting me all friendly as if he had not just been hidden in his room for a week not to see me.

Seems like the mental illness showing up. It doesn't make sense to us; it may somehow "make sense" to him. Maybe thinking of it like a man on a corner shouting at the sky could help. I think one of the tricky aspects of BPD is that the content is so normal -- it's about human relationships. He isn't ranting about the FBI controlling him through a secret tooth implant; in a way, that might be easier to identify as mental illness. He may be just as mentally ill, but the content in which it's expressed "sounds normal". The degree, though, is way off: hiding in a room away from family, etc. That takes "normal content" (i.e., I need some alone time) and manifests it in an extreme, disordered way (I'm an adult hiding in my room and sneaking out at night).

...

How are you feeling after all of that?

[Pook075]

The thing I am at a loss at understanding, though, is that the day after I left, he started texting me all friendly as if he had not just been hidden in his room for a week not to see me.

Sorry about your dad, but I am glad everyone had a good week.  A large part of that was everyone ignoring the drama and just going about their days in peace.

For what to do next, that's up to you.  If your brother wants a relationship all of a sudden and you do as well, then go for it.  If not, that's fine too.  The important part was that you didn't play his game and now he's seeing things from a new (healthier) perspective.  Good for you!

[Strawberry29]

Thanks kells, I actually feel quite ok, to be honest. Our time there was in the end way better and more quiet than I feared.
I wish I knew what you write about mental illness 10 years ago! At the time I really thought that mental disorders were just seeing little green men or something, and it took me way to long to realise the truth.

Pook, thanks! I don't know what will happen, i honestly think it will just be the usual rollercoaster where one day I am his best friend and the day after the worst person in the world. Just with the additional bit that he does not want to see me even when I am his best friend. I will need to see if when I go there without my children he will show up or not. One suspicion is he does this because of them, either because seeing them triggers something (more realistic), or because he does not want to hurt them (my usual stupid sentimentalist hope). 
But either way, one possible reason why he is now more friendly is that the most feared moment has passed, and we have left.

[Notwendy]

 I think one of the tricky aspects of BPD is that the content is so normal -- it's about human relationships. He isn't ranting about the FBI controlling him through a secret tooth implant; in a way, that might be easier to identify as mental illness. He may be just as mentally ill, but the content in which it's expressed "sounds normal".

That's a good point. I have an aquaintance who has schizophrenia- and she does say things like the FBI shooting radio waves at her. We can tell she has a mental illness and needs medical help when this happens. We also don't take her comments personally- so the interaction isn't emotionally hurtful.

Even if BPD mother is acting "normal" or sounding "normal"- she still has a mental illness. Still, she is accountable for her behavior and deemed to be mentally competent while a person with schizophrenia would not be, but she still has disordred thinking and behaviors.