need help!

[Jack-a-Roe]

This is my first post. I met my wife 6 years ago, soon after my previous wife of 30 years passed away.  We fell wildly and madly in love and got married in 2019.  Things were great until the stress of Covid happened and I began to see the emotional regulation problems that I've come to see as BPD-like (random and extreme bursts of anger, often over benign things, extreme volatility and unpredictability).  We've been in an endless cycle of fighting, separation, and reconciliation since. 

We started couples counseling in 2021.  After a few months the therapist told her that she has BPD-like behaviors.  She told me privately that she believes my wife meets the full criteria.  She suggested a DBT therapist for my wife who actually dove into the work fully. We ended up doing DBT High-Conflict Couples therapy together.  This therapist told me privately that she doesn't like the term BPD.  She said that when sensitive people grow up in an abusive environment they often develop emotional problems that present as the emotional dysregulation of BPD.  She didn't think my wife qualifies for the full diagnosis and I agree.  However, she recommended the book "Loving Someone with BPD" and suggested that I join a BPD support group.  The book's description of what it is like to live with a BPD spouse fit me to a tee, as do many of the threads that I've seen so far on this forum.  Man it is really hard to live with this! 

My question is this.  Her DBT therapist doesn't like the term BPD because it is stigmatizing and it will make my wife feel like there is something wrong with her. I asked her how I can join a support group without my wife knowing and she didn't really have an answer.  I want to be able to share what these two therapists have said to me with my wife.  It feels like I am hiding something, and it seems to me if we can't actually name the problem we can't fix it.  It feels like "BPD" is the "thing that shall not be named." 

I feel like I'm in an odd situation.  My wife continues to see a DBT/Somatic Experiencing therapist, and things have improved.  Some of the really extreme behavior has stopped, and she has gotten very good at applying DBT skills after a conflict.  (I describe as she has gotten really good at cleaning up the house after she burned it down).  And we do talk openly about her "trauma triggers" and her nervous system.  But the emotional volatility and unpredictable displays of anger continue.  It's like she is taken over by another person, and it doesn't matter what I do or say.  They somehow always catch me off guard and I've been having a hard time managing my own anger once it happens. My own reactivity usually leads to prolonged separation. 

I'm at my wits end.  We both love each other tremendously, but I don't know how to continue if we can't openly talk about the thing that is the driving force in our conflict.  Our conversations alway seem to turn to things I'm doing or not doing.  These things are important, but it feels like a deflection.  What I do or don't do doesn't really matter once the BPD train goes off the rails. Is it totally unrealistic of me to think that we might be able to talk openly about BPD behavior as we are trying to reconcile after a fight?  I'd appreciate any thoughts/advice. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Pook075]

Hi Jack-a-Roe and welcome!  I'm very sorry you're going through this.

First of all, I agree with your wife's therapist to some degree- labels are absolutely useless in mental health.  The diagnosis is important because it gives an idea on how to treat, but the overall label doesn't do anything other than point blame where it doesn't belong.  Everyone suffers from mental illness at times, especially when there's heavy stress involved.  For example, you could probably be labeled for depression right now- would that be helpful in any way, shape, or form?  Of course not.

I was in a similar situation when my marriage fell apart almost two years ago, and my primary doctor talked things out with me and said, "This is textbook BPD."  And I thought, "Aha, I knew it!"  But what did I actually know?  My wife had a mental health problem and didn't react appropriately at times, or thought differently about some things.  It was really no help at all since she refused the diagnosis and refused to get treatment (other than meds).

If your wife is in DBT and improving, then you've already won the greatest part of the battle.  This can be a slow process though; my BPD daughter was in DBT therapy for almost 18 months before she really started to see things clearly.  That's okay though, everyone has to go at their own pace for real change to happen.

Your job in this process is to support her and learn better communication techniques to help her along.  Check out the "tips" and "tools" sections at the top of this page to begin that journey.  You'll also have to work on some healthy boundaries for when she has tough days to avoid those blow-out rages. 

You have a lot more control than you think; it all comes down to communication and meeting her where she's at.  Just let us know how we can help!

[Jack-a-Roe]

Many thanks Pook075.  I appreciate your thoughts and your encouragement. I've never been a support group kind of person, but after reading some of the threads and posting my own, I was surprised that I found myself feeling less alone.

The site is great, and I plan to devote considerable time in learning the skills for dealing with this.  I've also signed up for the Family Connections 12 week course when it becomes available.  A major thing that I'm struggling with is how do I talk to my wife about the fact that I'm doing this work - it's going to take time at the computer, journaling, watching videos, taking a course, etc.  If I don't tell her I'm on BPDfamily I feel like I'm hiding something and it doesn't feel practical.  If I tell her I run the risk of her feeling stigmatized by a label.  Any thoughts?

[Pook075]

Many thanks Pook075.  I appreciate your thoughts and your encouragement. I've never been a support group kind of person, but after reading some of the threads and posting my own, I was surprised that I found myself feeling less alone.

The site is great, and I plan to devote considerable time in learning the skills for dealing with this.  I've also signed up for the Family Connections 12 week course when it becomes available.  A major thing that I'm struggling with is how do I talk to my wife about the fact that I'm doing this work - it's going to take time at the computer, journaling, watching videos, taking a course, etc.  If I don't tell her I'm on BPDfamily I feel like I'm hiding something and it doesn't feel practical.  If I tell her I run the risk of her feeling stigmatized by a label.  Any thoughts?

Good questions, and I would personally go the humble route in that conversation and say, "I'm working on my own mental health struggles and learning how to better communicate."  Because again, we've all been through legit trauma here and we are working on our own mental wellbeing.

The other side of that is understanding how to communicate with someone that has BPD.  Emotions can run wild and there's several techniques in our tools section that can help you help her feel a little more stable and secure.  Once you improve communicating, the worst of the worst moments begin to subside since there's more trust and relating to one another.

I hope that helps!

[eightdays]

Jack-a-Roe- 
Our stories and timeframes and experiences with our partner and therapists are so similar, I just wanted you to know you are not alone.   I don't think it will be constructive to share what you are thinking with your wife.   I know the conundrum this presents sitting on that secret that isn’t being shared.  I remember trying to wrap my head around this too.    It is an emotional acceptance problem though, not a thought problem.   As time has passed, I see It is something my wife needs to find for herself.   

I believe your therapist is right that your wife would not hear it in the way you are intending, and it would be frightening.   This may leave you conflicted, but you will have to make a decision about what is ultimately best for you.     Be patient with yourself.   If you haven’t looked at it I recommend ‘Stop Caretaking the Borderline’, it addresses some of these issues.  Take care of yourself.

[Jack-a-Roe]

Thank you both- very much.  I really appreciate the feedback, and I will try to figure out a way to finesse this as best as I can so that she does not feel threatened.

I'm really in a bad way right now.  On the Wed before Easter my wife had another episode where I watched her go from calm and loving to yelling at me within minutes and kicking me out of the bedroom. We were talking about senstive things related to our intimacy but I was agreeing with her when this happened and things were calm and loving, until they weren't.  Once again I watched the train go off the rails.  Because it was a sensitive issue I got hopping mad which made things worse.  She didn't feel safe and we are now physically separated.  On Sat I sent what I thought was a very thoughtful email that expressed how I felt in as caring a way as I could.  I didn't mention BPD but I did talk about how I would like for us to acknowledge how when she is overwhelmed it results in outbursts of anger to me.  We talked on the phone the next day but it devolved into a screaming match. 

She hasn't felt safe talking to me since.  It feels like I'm being treated like a monster because I am asking not to be yelled at for no reason.  She said that Easter was a turning point and I'm just very scared, alone, and sad. 

I will probably put a new post on this site, but does anyone have any recommendations for
1. Someone I can talk to as soon as possible.  I haven't seen any kind of hotline but I wonder if there are immediate resources out there.
2. A therapist or therapeutic practice that specializes in helping people with BPD spouses. 


 

[Pook075]

Thank you both- very much.  I really appreciate the feedback, and I will try to figure out a way to finesse this as best as I can so that she does not feel threatened.

I'm really in a bad way right now.  On the Wed before Easter my wife had another episode where I watched her go from calm and loving to yelling at me within minutes and kicking me out of the bedroom. We were talking about senstive things related to our intimacy but I was agreeing with her when this happened and things were calm and loving, until they weren't.  Once again I watched the train go off the rails.  Because it was a sensitive issue I got hopping mad which made things worse.  She didn't feel safe and we are now physically separated.  On Sat I sent what I thought was a very thoughtful email that expressed how I felt in as caring a way as I could.  I didn't mention BPD but I did talk about how I would like for us to acknowledge how when she is overwhelmed it results in outbursts of anger to me.  We talked on the phone the next day but it devolved into a screaming match. 

She hasn't felt safe talking to me since.  It feels like I'm being treated like a monster because I am asking not to be yelled at for no reason.  She said that Easter was a turning point and I'm just very scared, alone, and sad. 

I will probably put a new post on this site, but does anyone have any recommendations for
1. Someone I can talk to as soon as possible.  I haven't seen any kind of hotline but I wonder if there are immediate resources out there.
2. A therapist or therapeutic practice that specializes in helping people with BPD spouses. 


 

Hey Jack,

I remember writing several letters to my BPD ex wife or BPD daughter over the years, and filled it with encouragement talking about how much I loved them.  Yet after the fact, each of them would find one line and become hyper-focused on it to the point where all the other words didn't matter.  That line would be something negative or mentioning something that needed to change.

One thing that you must realize is that everything your wife FEELS is real.  For instance, if a painting fell off your wall in the middle of the night it might wake you up and scare you.  Maybe you grab a gun or a bat to investigate.  There's no danger, there's no threat, but you don't know that and the FEELING is real.  That fear does things to your body, both physically and mentally, that shifts your entire mindset. 

That's what your wife is dealing with here.  Not necessarily what you did (which could be real or fake), but the feelings that come from it.

For #2, consider getting into counseling ASAP.  That can be someone local or on one of the online therapy sites.  Look for someone that specializes in BPD and take an intro session with them to see if it's a fit.  Then share your story and ask for some guidance.  As I told you earlier, therapy is not about "diagnosing you" or even mental health in a way, it's just helping you deal with stress and trauma in your life in a more productive way.  Most members here have been in therapy or are in therapy and there's nothing wrong with that- it's a healthy choice.

For #1, there is nobody you can call (that I know of) and that's a big part of the reason why this site was created.  It's a safe, anonymous place to unburden ourselves and find understanding.  If you need to speak to someone immediately just to talk, consider your local church or a family member.  Keep posting here as well, whatever you need to share...even if it's just a rant to get things off your chest.  That's perfectly okay.

[Jack-a-Roe]

Thanks again Pook. This is really helpful. I do understand that the feelings are real.  It's just so hard to process when it comes from something so illogical and seemingly unreasonable.  I somehow have it in my head that if I just spell things out clearly enough it will just "click" for her.  ("Surely you can see that it is a problem when you yell at me for asking you if it is cold outside,").  I realize that doesn't work.  I suppose it's "explaining" from the JADE acronym.  I've been with this for 4 years now and I still seemed to get surprised when anger outbursts come out of the blue.

 I have been doing therapy with a great Internal Family Systems therapist for over a year now, but I think I do need someone with a specialization in BPD so that I can better manage my responses.  I have an interview with someone on Monday and have reached out to some other folks.  Finding therapists online without a referral feels really overwhelming so I was hoping someone here might have a rec for someone licensed in GA or KY.   Thanks for letting me vent.  It is hugely helpful. 

[Pook075]

It's just so hard to process when it comes from something so illogical and seemingly unreasonable.  I somehow have it in my head that if I just spell things out clearly enough it will just "click" for her. 

Let's say I tell you that you're a total jerk.  How do you respond?

There's two completely different thought patterns you can take here, and what you decide will ultimately direct where this conversation goes.

The first thought pattern might be, "I'm not a jerk.  What the heck is wrong with this guy saying that out of the blue...."

The second thought pattern might be, "I wonder why he feels that way or if I said something to offend him...."

If you follow the first route, maybe you tell me off, cuss me out, scream at me.  Things won't end well for us, LOL.  But if you take the second path, then you're using empathy and trying to figure out why I'm offended.  That second path gives a lot more hope for a good outcome, even though I was in the wrong initially.

Because here's the thing- communication is a two-way street.  Right and wrong shouldn't matter as much in the moment when emotions are high.  At times, we all say dumb things we shouldn't.

On the Wednesday before Easter, your wife went from calm to screaming.  It probably felt surreal, like where the heck did that come from?  But the truth is that it came from somewhere, some insecurity in your wife that took something out of proportion.  Maybe it wasn't even words, maybe it was a look you gave or your body language when you did something. 

I remember with my ex, she'd ask me to do something when I was already busy and I'd sigh...just breathe out heavily with that hint of frustration.  And you'd think that I cussed her out by the way she'd react at times.  Who's fault was it though- her for "intruding" or me for being "insensitive"?

The truth was that it was both our faults, we both could have chosen a different approach.

When your wife gets suddenly angry, there is a reason....and it doesn't matter if there's a good reason or not.  You have two choices at that point, exactly like when I called you a total jerk.  You can lead with righteous thinking or you can lead with empathy.

One choice helps her calm down and regulate.  The other choice starts world war III in your home.  Which is the better choice in the moment?  That should be your thought pattern and it will allow you to respond in the moment with much better answers.  Make sense?

[Jack-a-Roe]

Totally makes sense.  But it's pretty hard to implement. I feel like there are many times where we are able to work through a fight and there is some clarity on how I could do something different.  And then a similar situation comes up, I do the thing that I was asked, and there's an explosion over something else I did or didn't do.  It's a moving target.  Someone on this sight used the phrase "a game of whack-a-mole."  That's what it feels like.  Hopefully if I can get to the empathetic response earlier and not do the righteous thinking (I'm guilty of that) it will all just cool down a bit. 

[Pook075]

Totally makes sense.  But it's pretty hard to implement. I feel like there are many times where we are able to work through a fight and there is some clarity on how I could do something different.  And then a similar situation comes up, I do the thing that I was asked, and there's an explosion over something else I did or didn't do.  It's a moving target.  Someone on this sight used the phrase "a game of whack-a-mole."  That's what it feels like.  Hopefully if I can get to the empathetic response earlier and not do the righteous thinking (I'm guilty of that) it will all just cool down a bit. 

I get that and it's completely frustrating- nothing about this is easy.  But what you just shared, you focused on the words (like, you're a total jerk in the last example).  The words are stemming from the uncontrollable emotions.

Forget the words entirely if you have to, and zoom in on the emotions.  Scared, happy, angry, confused, depressed...whatever.  You've felt all those things and understand what they feel like.  Once she starts to become unstable, all your focus should be on soothing the emotions, relating to them and building connection. 

That helps her regulate, center herself, and then normal conversations can take place.

Think of a toddler that's screaming, kicking, and completely out of control.  How do you make it stop?  Words alone won't cut it because the baby doesn't understand words.  But even as infants, they can understand emotion in our body language, the tone of our voices, the steadiness of our voice and touch.

Have you ever seen a stressed out mom pick up a crying baby?  The baby cries more, gets more emotional and upset.  But when someone calm and centered grabs the baby, then it calms down.  It can feel the nurture, the calmness, the stability...and the baby feels safe and secure.

You are facing the identical situation and words have little impact.  This is about feelings, the primal stuff we know well before words.  You focus in on the feelings, understand what it's like to feel that way, and ultimately offer soothing support to let the crisis pass.

I've done this when my BPD daughter has had panic attacks...and a few times when she was suicidal.  The words were meaningless without the right emotions behind them.  My only focus was to help her calm down and stabilize.  With the right temperament, it happens quickly...usually within a few minutes we're back to calm, logical conversation.  But I have to steer it there, just like I would with an infant.

When I've been in the same position as you with my BPD ex-wife, I did the exact same thing to quell the anger and rage.  Many times I'd have no clue why she was mad, but it didn't actually matter.  The goal was to calm her down, talk her off the ledge, so to speak.  Then we could worry about the "why".  It's always secondary to diffusing the emotions though.

Hopefully that helps!

[Jack-a-Roe]

This helps a ton.  I really appreciate your taking the time to talk with me this way Pook.  It's really helping right now to know others have walked this path.  I will reread what you wrote a bunch - it sounds like you have some real experience here.   It all feels very counterintuitive but I have to try.  I love my wife very much and I hope we can stay together.  Be both know that we can't stay together if things remain this volatile.  Hopefully I can find a therapist soon who can help me with the kinds of things you are talking about.

[Pook075]

This helps a ton.  I really appreciate your taking the time to talk with me this way Pook.  It's really helping right now to know others have walked this path.  I will reread what you wrote a bunch - it sounds like you have some real experience here.   It all feels very counterintuitive but I have to try.  I love my wife very much and I hope we can stay together.  Be both know that we can't stay together if things remain this volatile.  Hopefully I can find a therapist soon who can help me with the kinds of things you are talking about.

Absolutely, I'm happy to help.  Keep asking questions and sharing specific challenges, and I'm sure others will jump in soon enough.  We all have different experiences and it helps to see this as a whole.

[Elitevaz]

I don’t think you should be so transparent. Definitely don’t label her, but something is definitely wrong with her. Keep it to yourself. It’s like telling someone that smokes they are a smoker. It doesn’t help them. Anything that wouldn’t feel good should be concealed. I’d feel free to make up less impactful lies too. However, never make a situation or lie hopeless. You are just deciding the best way to handle it and you don’t need any help from her. It’s 100% feelings with them. Reality doesn’t matter at all.