I'm going from one BPD relationship to another

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all. This is my first post here. I found this forum after looking for more information on BPD, after I got some idea from the sister, who is in psychology field, that my current partner sounds like someone with BPD.

This might be longer, but there is no other way when a person is potentially bound to BPD during childhood (mother), with ex-wife, and now a new partner (but hopefully not too long).

My partner and me are together for 6 months now. She is a single mother, son of 6. For the very beginning, tings looked nice, although a little bit faster than expected. Nevertheless, it didn't bother me, as I divorced last year, I am 39 years old and I do not look for something casual. Still, there were some things that immediately raised alarm: she introduced me to her kid after a few dates, not even first month passed. She left for vacation for 2 weeks shortly after that, alone, leaving the kid with her mom and stepdad. For a few times I did some babysitting in those 2 weeks, as kid wan't in good mood due to his mom missing, and I provided some fun and toys for him, so I was interesting to him. After the vacation, she looked annoyed with me presence - not a single clear reflection on the fact that I was babysitting her kid in those 2 weeks. She blamed that on here adaptation to time zone again, so I left it there. A little by little, we got along, I practically I started to live with them in a matter of week - in that time she even told me that "she would not like me to leave ever" and that "her kid expressed a wish that I live with them".

It looked fast to me, especially to my sister, but I simply accepted that as someone having genuine trust and feelings for me. We started planning the first vacation for three of us, for beginning of spring. We also paid for vacation in summer. When I say "we", that makes actually 80% or more with my money. I missed to set the right borders there, and expectations quickly went to "I pay for the most of the things": hotels, restaurants, groceries, amazon deliveries,... In this period her unpredicted bursts of annoyance started to become more often. I would do something to help her, or offer my help, or ask her about something - and reactions were very often annoyances - questions with "why", rude tone, questioning every my move. I really felt like having someone who judges all my doings, that I walk on eggshells. My confidence started to deteriorate, I tried to comfort her, to avoid being judged - all the points I learned from the early childhood - but I will return to it.

After vacation, things started escalating. The kid do bedwetting from time to time, but now he started doing that almost every day. In one of those occasions, during the night, she told me that "she wanted me at my place". When next day I picked up my stuff, she insisted that I stay. But then new incidents like that appear. I did many things in her apartment, like electric and water installations, cooking, dishwashing, babysitting... and the first time I rejected to comply for one task to do 3 days earlier than I offered I got "I don't want to live with you. I want you at your place". I told her later over WhatsApp that I will definitely spend time at my place, but now that became a problem - that I informed her about leaving her apartment over a message - she absolutely rejected that she practically throw me away from her apartment. This continued in following two weeks - during one argument in her car, when I simply asked to have the same treatment of my wishes as she had, she stopped the car next to train station expecting from me to leave, which I did. Finally, days after, when I spent the whole day of helping her, she asked me "why did I wear that polo shirt", and when I said "because I liked it", she told me that "then I can wear it alone".

That was enough for me. I packed myself, she asked me then to give her back the keys, which I did, and I left. Many calls after, that night, I returned back on her insisting, to talk, but she didn't offer anything, insisting that this "alone" doesn't mean that. I left her again, realising that it is over - she told me not to call her anymore, anyway. But, tomorrow she called me and begged me to come to talk. I tried to pushed back, insisting that there is no sense to be together anymore, but she started triggering the feeling of guilt in me, that I have more responsability for other human being than for me - but I will return to this.

I returned to talk. And without asking for anything, she offered everything, she realised how she behaved, and how that was wrong, and so on... and I felt like I lost all arguments, so I gave it a chance. But, I don't feel it anymore, this scar I got in last couple of weeks sound familiar, and I started to dig more, with my sister, and especially with my therapist. The following days, she behaved perfectly, but also she wasn't giving me any space. Literraly she wanted to be present every minute of my life. And that bothers me - I lost contacts with my friends, I rarely see them. I don't spend time alone, I don't have my hobbies. I only spent time with her, her familly and friends. Or I get some responsability for apartment or the kid. Right now, I am on a trip to home country, and I am thinking about next moves.

The first obvious question from my therapist was why I didn't mention this "my way or highway" arguments in weeks before. Answer - I saw it normal. Why? Because my ex-wife behaved the same in the first half of our relationship/marriage, before I started with therapy. She was very impulsive, controlling, distrustful. She would start breaking glasses in the apartment during an argument, then she would leave. At some point she would call me crying, asking me to come to her on that and that place. When I would be there, after she realised that my opinion still stands, she would slap me into face. I would leave, she would call, I would return, a slap... and so on. I felt like I am constantly on eggshells, I was the only provided, and she would just spend money on many different things, without thinking for the future, even for until the end of the month. Finally, after years of my insisting, she found a job, but broke after a year, had a psychotic episode, and started with risperidon. After a year she was tested in the clinic for different disorders, where she was really close to BPD diagnose - but, as I said, many of her symptoms, especially her impulses, were under control already by medicine, for a year at least.

That had two important consequences. The first, raising feeling of guilt in me, that I pushed her over the line. The second, she started with therapy and risperidon and her symptoms started melting. We didn't have such arguments anymore, she started working on some her issues, and I started my therapy. So at that moment, this became a blind spot for my therapist, as I never talked about this. It was a blind spot for my sister, as she also never saw that part of our dynamics. But the moment she asked me "why did I tolerate my new girlfriend's behavior", and I answered "because my ex behaved much worse, so it was normal to me" - the short "wait.. what?", from her, started opening a huge box. A couple of therapy sessions after, questions like "why such relationships are close to my heart", or "why do I see that normal", started to unblind some big spot for me.

I mentioned that my sister is in therapy field, and she worked 15 years on her problems and fixed a lot of damage for herself. She gave me a lot of support and recommendations for therapists. We spent nights talking about our childhood. We talked about both parents, and how they mistreated us. We largely concentrated on our father, as he has NPD, clearly visible today, more and more. But our mother was always a blind spot. We kind of looked at her as a victim - she was verbally and physically abused as child by her father, and sexually abused by a family friend, which she was afraid to talk to parents, knowing how her father would react. She married to my father, who, as mentioned, is a classic NPD, that continued that verbal torture. He was alcoholic as well (today he has diabetes, and he lost both legs), and after 16 years of marriage she finally divorced, when I begged her to do it (I was 14 at the time).

But, after one question "why do you think that you should feel guilty even when someone still mistreat you like that?", everything started to be clear. My mother was very conditional in showing her emotions, when I was a child. If I would do what she wanted, or I did something exceptional in school, or I would be sick - she would show me a positive attention. If I would not do what she liked, she would yell on me, put me in detention for hours or days, avoiding to realise even my existence for days, avoiding to talk to me. She would clearly give me a message that I hurt her. She would spill her dissatisfaction from marriage or work to me, which looked liked random bursts of rage, and built the anxious attachment for me. She would judge my friends, spill over the feeling of guilt, shame, luck of confidence. Me and my sister can't remember one weekend with our parents - they would simply gave us to our grandparents and go for a weekend with friends to play cards. When once I insisted to stay, I was in detention, to spend time in bed for the whole weekend. I was always the one to ask that couldn't join my friends in school for going to play football, video game store, etc. In many cases I felt like I should more concentrate on the needs of my mother and her acceptance, than what I really wanted to do.

As a teenager, doctors told me that I have a chronic HBV. At that time there wasn't any antiviral therapy, and all I could was to sleep well, and eat healthy food. And I did. When all of my friends enjoyed their youth, I spent time at doctors, eating food that I didn't prefer, and go to bed at 21h every night. And every single blood control showed worse results than before. But my mother never showed support and comfort in such cases - she always blamed me because of my results. Like I was doing something to make my liver enzymes worse. Every time I went to doctor, I was afraid to get bad blood results, because that would mean more rigorous regime and, even worse, more feeling of guilt. To the point that in the end I lied to my parents and everyone that I lost HBV. For a decade I spent my time in a lie, experiencing all symptoms, like pain in abdomen, but avoiding to go to doctor, to not feel anymore that guilt.

Today my HBV is under control. It took some 2 years of therapies to go to doctor and western medicine to put my misery on hold.

In my professional career, I am succesfull, in Senior Leadership of a good company. I started giving a great deal to my physical and mental health, and finally, I am again on a cross road. I think I finally broke my normalisation of feeeling guilty, from where it comes, or at least I would like to believe so. I am close to 40, I don't have kids and I don't know if I want to have them. I am afraid to be alone. I would love to have someone, but I struggle to see that someone cares from me if she is not jealous, posesive, controlling, that leave-return-slap dynamic. Obviously, I still have a lot to do on my therapies.

I am on a trip, visiting my familly, preparing for return back to break up with my current partner. One thing I know that I might feel guilty again. But I also want to explain to myself that this guilt is not mine, that I am programmed like this, and that I should finally do what I really want to do.

Do you have this feeling of guilt to the point that you forget your scars and needs, just to comfort that person? How do you deal with that?

[ompluscator]

Hi all. This is my first post here. I found this forum after looking for more information on BPD, after I got some idea from the sister, who is in psychology field, that my current partner sounds like someone with BPD.

This might be longer, but there is no other way when a person is potentially bound to BPD during childhood (mother), with ex-wife, and now a new partner (but hopefully not too long).

My partner and me are together for 6 months now. She is a single mother, son of 6. For the very beginning, tings looked nice, although a little bit faster than expected. Nevertheless, it didn't bother me, as I divorced last year, I am 39 years old and I do not look for something casual. Still, there were some things that immediately raised alarm: she introduced me to her kid after a few dates, not even first month passed. She left for vacation for 2 weeks shortly after that, alone, leaving the kid with her mom and stepdad. For a few times I did some babysitting in those 2 weeks, as kid wan't in good mood due to his mom missing, and I provided some fun and toys for him, so I was interesting to him. After the vacation, she looked annoyed with me presence - not a single clear reflection on the fact that I was babysitting her kid in those 2 weeks. She blamed that on here adaptation to time zone again, so I left it there. A little by little, we got along, I practically I started to live with them in a matter of week - in that time she even told me that "she would not like me to leave ever" and that "her kid expressed a wish that I live with them".

It looked fast to me, especially to my sister, but I simply accepted that as someone having genuine trust and feelings for me. We started planning the first vacation for three of us, for beginning of spring. We also paid for vacation in summer. When I say "we", that makes actually 80% or more with my money. I missed to set the right borders there, and expectations quickly went to "I pay for the most of the things": hotels, restaurants, groceries, amazon deliveries,... In this period her unpredicted bursts of annoyance started to become more often. I would do something to help her, or offer my help, or ask her about something - and reactions were very often annoyances - questions with "why", rude tone, questioning every my move. I really felt like having someone who judges all my doings, that I walk on eggshells. My confidence started to deteriorate, I tried to comfort her, to avoid being judged - all the points I learned from the early childhood - but I will return to it.

After vacation, things started escalating. The kid do bedwetting from time to time, but now he started doing that almost every day. In one of those occasions, during the night, she told me that "she wanted me at my place". When next day I picked up my stuff, she insisted that I stay. But then new incidents like that appear. I did many things in her apartment, like electric and water installations, cooking, dishwashing, babysitting... and the first time I rejected to comply for one task to do 3 days earlier than I offered I got "I don't want to live with you. I want you at your place". I told her later over WhatsApp that I will definitely spend time at my place, but now that became a problem - that I informed her about leaving her apartment over a message - she absolutely rejected that she practically throw me away from her apartment. This continued in following two weeks - during one argument in her car, when I simply asked to have the same treatment of my wishes as she had, she stopped the car next to train station expecting from me to leave, which I did. Finally, days after, when I spent the whole day of helping her, she asked me "why did I wear that polo shirt", and when I said "because I liked it", she told me that "then I can wear it alone".

That was enough for me. I packed myself, she asked me then to give her back the keys, which I did, and I left. Many calls after, that night, I returned back on her insisting, to talk, but she didn't offer anything, insisting that this "alone" doesn't mean that. I left her again, realising that it is over - she told me not to call her anymore, anyway. But, tomorrow she called me and begged me to come to talk. I tried to pushed back, insisting that there is no sense to be together anymore, but she started triggering the feeling of guilt in me, that I have more responsability for other human being than for me - but I will return to this.

I returned to talk. And without asking for anything, she offered everything, she realised how she behaved, and how that was wrong, and so on... and I felt like I lost all arguments, so I gave it a chance. But, I don't feel it anymore, this scar I got in last couple of weeks sound familiar, and I started to dig more, with my sister, and especially with my therapist. The following days, she behaved perfectly, but also she wasn't giving me any space. Literraly she wanted to be present every minute of my life. And that bothers me - I lost contacts with my friends, I rarely see them. I don't spend time alone, I don't have my hobbies. I only spent time with her, her familly and friends. Or I get some responsability for apartment or the kid. Right now, I am on a trip to home country, and I am thinking about next moves.

The first obvious question from my therapist was why I didn't mention this "my way or highway" arguments in weeks before. Answer - I saw it normal. Why? Because my ex-wife behaved the same in the first half of our relationship/marriage, before I started with therapy. She was very impulsive, controlling, distrustful. She would start breaking glasses in the apartment during an argument, then she would leave. At some point she would call me crying, asking me to come to her on that and that place. When I would be there, after she realised that my opinion still stands, she would slap me into face. I would leave, she would call, I would return, a slap... and so on. I felt like I am constantly on eggshells, I was the only provided, and she would just spend money on many different things, without thinking for the future, even for until the end of the month. Finally, after years of my insisting, she found a job, but broke after a year, had a psychotic episode, and started with risperidon. After a year she was tested in the clinic for different disorders, where she was really close to BPD diagnose - but, as I said, many of her symptoms, especially her impulses, were under control already by medicine, for a year at least.

That had two important consequences. The first, raising feeling of guilt in me, that I pushed her over the line. The second, she started with therapy and risperidon and her symptoms started melting. We didn't have such arguments anymore, she started working on some her issues, and I started my therapy. So at that moment, this became a blind spot for my therapist, as I never talked about this. It was a blind spot for my sister, as she also never saw that part of our dynamics. But the moment she asked me "why did I tolerate my new girlfriend's behavior", and I answered "because my ex behaved much worse, so it was normal to me" - the short "wait.. what?", from her, started opening a huge box. A couple of therapy sessions after, questions like "why such relationships are close to my heart", or "why do I see that normal", started to unblind some big spot for me.

I mentioned that my sister is in therapy field, and she worked 15 years on her problems and fixed a lot of damage for herself. She gave me a lot of support and recommendations for therapists. We spent nights talking about our childhood. We talked about both parents, and how they mistreated us. We largely concentrated on our father, as he has NPD, clearly visible today, more and more. But our mother was always a blind spot. We kind of looked at her as a victim - she was verbally and physically abused as child by her father, and sexually abused by a family friend, which she was afraid to talk to parents, knowing how her father would react. She married to my father, who, as mentioned, is a classic NPD, that continued that verbal torture. He was alcoholic as well (today he has diabetes, and he lost both legs), and after 16 years of marriage she finally divorced, when I begged her to do it (I was 14 at the time).

But, after one question "why do you think that you should feel guilty even when someone still mistreat you like that?", everything started to be clear. My mother was very conditional in showing her emotions, when I was a child. If I would do what she wanted, or I did something exceptional in school, or I would be sick - she would show me a positive attention. If I would not do what she liked, she would yell on me, put me in detention for hours or days, avoiding to realise even my existence for days, avoiding to talk to me. She would clearly give me a message that I hurt her. She would spill her dissatisfaction from marriage or work to me, which looked liked random bursts of rage, and built the anxious attachment for me. She would judge my friends, spill over the feeling of guilt, shame, luck of confidence. Me and my sister can't remember one weekend with our parents - they would simply gave us to our grandparents and go for a weekend with friends to play cards. When once I insisted to stay, I was in detention, to spend time in bed for the whole weekend. I was always the one to ask that couldn't join my friends in school for going to play football, video game store, etc. In many cases I felt like I should more concentrate on the needs of my mother and her acceptance, than what I really wanted to do.

As a teenager, doctors told me that I have a chronic HBV. At that time there wasn't any antiviral therapy, and all I could was to sleep well, and eat healthy food. And I did. When all of my friends enjoyed their youth, I spent time at doctors, eating food that I didn't prefer, and go to bed at 21h every night. And every single blood control showed worse results than before. But my mother never showed support and comfort in such cases - she always blamed me because of my results. Like I was doing something to make my liver enzymes worse. Every time I went to doctor, I was afraid to get bad blood results, because that would mean more rigorous regime and, even worse, more feeling of guilt. To the point that in the end I lied to my parents and everyone that I lost HBV. For a decade I spent my time in a lie, experiencing all symptoms, like pain in abdomen, but avoiding to go to doctor, to not feel anymore that guilt.

Today my HBV is under control. It took some 2 years of therapies to go to doctor and western medicine to put my misery on hold.

In my professional career, I am succesfull, in Senior Leadership of a good company. I started giving a great deal to my physical and mental health, and finally, I am again on a cross road. I think I finally broke my normalisation of feeeling guilty, from where it comes, or at least I would like to believe so. I am close to 40, I don't have kids and I don't know if I want to have them. I am afraid to be alone. I would love to have someone, but I struggle to see that someone cares from me if she is not jealous, posesive, controlling, that leave-return-slap dynamic. Obviously, I still have a lot to do on my therapies.

I am on a trip, visiting my familly, preparing for return back to break up with my current partner. One thing I know that I might feel guilty again. But I also want to explain to myself that this guilt is not mine, that I am programmed like this, and that I should finally do what I really want to do.

Do you have this feeling of guilt to the point that you forget your scars and needs, just to comfort that person? How do you deal with that?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hi ompluscator and welcome to the group   

As I read through your post, it sounded to me like you reached a tipping point -- you were finally ready to share everything that had built up in your life. We're really glad you felt ready to do that, to get some feedback and support, because your situation sounds so stressful.

I think you're onto something when you talk about your FOO (family of origin) structure and your romantic relationship structures. The relationships that our families model to us, "teach" us what to expect as "normal". And families can, whether they mean to or not, teach us that dysfunction is normal and should feel comfortable and familiar. Having that awareness is a good first step towards breaking the cycle.

You mention continuing therapy -- what has your therapist thought about your FOO background?

The other thing that stood out to me, that permeated your post, was guilt.

I don't know if you've had a chance to look at our workshop on Fear, Obligation, and Guilt yet; two posts in there that jumped out at me were:

I know the official definition of F.O.G. here on the board is fear, obligation and guilt.  And yet, all three of those things are good things in the right context.  I.E. - we fear doing something harmful to our family, we feel obligated to work on our relationships, we feel guilty if we have unfaithful thoughts or actually are unfaithful.  All of that is good.  

Her point is pretty much your point - that these are normal, often helpful, feelings - so we trust them.  And this can be debilitating if we can't recognize when we are caught in a cycle with our partner.

Guilt isn't in itself a bad thing, so we trust that feeling... but it can be tied up in some unhealthy dynamics.

Maybe practicing assessing that guilt feeling -- really asking yourself, OK, I am feeling guilty, can I think through if that is reasonable here or not -- can be part of your path to healing? Because operating in a relationship from a sense of guilt and obligation isn't helping you, isn't helping her, and isn't helping the relationship. Turning things around -- starting to function from a healthy place -- won't be easy, but will give you and her a better shot at success.

Keep us posted on how the last week has gone for you;

kells76

[ompluscator]

Hi kells76.

Thank you for replying. I followed at the time this topic, but stopped just a day prior to your response.

Last 4-5 months were a bit of the journey, an emotional rollercoaster. I finally broke up with my girlfriend in the end of August, when I realized I was again in the same situation as in May. The only difference was that it was harder to break up than in May, and it was even more harder to stay in relationship. Such realization helped me to in the end break up and go no-contact. And that's now for almost 2 months.

What happened in meantime... there was a honeymoon phase in the end of May, then her birthday in June. Slowly her behavior towards me started deteriorating again. There wasn't anymore direct threats of "my way or highway", but bad behavior continued. I got less and less time for myself, anytime I wanted to spend one afternoon alone brought me arguing of 1-2 hours over the phone calls. Comments about my friends and family slowly started to isolate me from them, and more and more I depended on her.

As she has a son, I got again more and more obligations. We went on hiking trip this summer. Out of 50km of walking, I had him for 20km on my back - where, together with a bag, that was 35kg of additional weight. It was somewhere a good feeling, as I saw how my work in gym paid off in just 6 months. But the other part was problematical: everyone from the camp were amazed by what I did, everyone approached me and told me how that was co cool. My ex did, literally, nothing. No hug, no kiss, no touch, not even "thank you". Nothing for 7 days of hiking. One of those days it was her kid's birtday and I had him for 11km on my back that day because the alternative was that he and me stay together in the camp (for his birthday) and she goes for hike. No any suggestion to make that our "family day" - after all, was he her son or mine?

When we returned, her "push" phase, or ignoring phase continued as some her friends were visiting the city where we were living. New 7 days of no kiss, no hug, no touch, no nice words. She was devaluating me, putting me down continuously. I would clean her apartment and during the process I would get sweaty - she would approach me and tell she hadn't met someone who smelled that bad, in whole her life.

I was protesting a lot about her ignoring behavior. She didn't understand nor accepted any of those protests. She said she didn't understand what I was complaning about as she saw all good and "she felt secured". She continued draining my bank account, although I was telling constantly that I need to stabilize my finances, to stop overspending.

Finally, she went to visit her home. On the way back, she didn't tell me she had connected flight when I asked her about the time she was returning back. I was supposed to wait for her, as her keys from her apartment were with me. We argued again about that whole mistreatment and taking me for granted. When she called that bluntly a BS, I had it enough. I left her apartment for good.

A couple of days after she contacted me with "to talk or to give me my keys". I met her, took keys but she wanted to talk nevertheless. The story was that I was anxious, that I overreacted. I told her I couldn't talk anymore and left again, although she insisted on "do you think it will end good if you leave me now?". Tomorrow she again wrote me. It was the same story as from May - she realized she made mistake, how I was right about many things, she only wants to talk.

I wrote her that afternoon that I couldn't take it anymore, that I didn't want to be together anymore and to not call me. I blocked her and left my apartment for now already 6 weeks, to avoid her trying to contact me. She tried that day to contact me on different social networks, but I blocked them all, without answer. She also tried to call me from a phone which I think was in her car for the next 2 weeks, from time to time, but I didn't answer. Now is 4 weeks of silence.

I can't lie, I feel bad. I can't tell I don't have emotions, but I don't know how to define them. I miss her, I miss being close to her, hugging her, her smell, her voice. But that was more and more rare in our relationship. I got more and more tasks and ignore. By the end of our relationship I was spending the whole day in her apartment just hopping that I would get some attention, some appreciation. But there was nothing, except as a response when she there was a fear of abandonment. We talk about living together and kids from early on. There was that hope of settling in with someone, which I craved the whole my life. Her kid being around also made that feeling of family being real. On the other hand, her son also has issues, constant bedwetting at age of 6, tantrums, not listening to anyone, lately not even her. That also overwhelmed me over the time.

I know decision was good, because our honeymoon-disaster cycles were getting shorter, with significantly shorter honeymoon part. Appreciation disappeared. Physical contact became rare. I felt more and more dependent on her and more and more I lost a sense of myself. I started dreaming about having my free time.

Still, there is that sadness. Definitely because I was emotionally attached to her, and probably I am still. But also there is a sense of lost hope, some alternative future that now will never happen. There is a sense of missing a closure, that I left suddenly without giving a chance, although I gave so much chances and I said so many times what I missed and what I couldn't accept anymore. I don't miss the end of relationship, of course. But there were some parts from this whole relationship, with "love bombs", when I felt so much appreciated, loved. Something I wanted the whole my life.

That's the part which comes to my family, that I figured out why these love bombs, although rare and meshed with long periods of ignoring, were so important to me. I would write about it in some post later. Right now I had to empty my brain from all of those feelings.

At this moment I try to keep my cool. I stalk her from time to time on IG. She doesn't know it, of course. I think I have that strong wich to see that I really meant something to her, although everything is over. I know I will not find it out like this and I know that asking something like that about BPD person doesn't have any point, but those are now my daemons, to which I will return back.

Deeply inside I know that this feeling will not last forever and that's right now the only relief I have. I am trying to permanently stop stalking, but it doesn't help. Her profile on IG is public and I can see everything (there is nothing to see anyway, but it will be at some point). The rest goes well - I go to therapy, I go to gym, I read, I see friends and family. But, time alone is difficult.

Is it ok to stalk? Should I just go "cold Turkey" and forget stupid IG? How realistic it is?