new directions and growth

[tina7868]

Hello all  ! Life has been hectic with work and another move on the horizon (not as stressful as the previous one, thankfully!). I wanted to make a new topic in the spirit of a different way of seeing my relationship with my ex with BPD. I want to wrap my head around the situation, and also keep myself grounded in reality, which has proven so important.

After his own breakup, he was in great distress, he reached out to me, and I felt confused. I cared for him, and I started seeing him through a different lense. I found myself in a position where I felt helpful; a lot of his reflections and areas where he was trying to grow were areas I myself had difficulties with when I started writing on these boards about two years ago now. I realized that his actions throughout the years were not based on unresolved feelings for me; he wanted the unconditional comfort that I offered. I also realized that I had been acting out of anxiety and compulsion. An all-around unhealthy dynamic. It made him as a person seem less special in a sense. Now that I have a better grasp of that with the help of therapy, I have been giving him space and, lo and behold, he reaches out more often out of his own accord. I feel like one of the positives of this relationship, this friendship, is that I feel good when I see someone I care about trying and learning and growing. It`s like healing that part of me in the sense of coming full circle.

I keep myself down to earth by reminding myself that he is close to me now, but will most likely drift away when he feels better and or has a new love interest. He expressed recently that he`s `here to stay` this time, due to the aforementioned changes in our dynamic, but time will tell. I find myself gently calling him out in order to assert my boundaries, and he`s been responding well. For example, I told him that it was misplaced for him to have asked about my sexual life while he was in a relationship (a point I wrote about here before, and the confusion it had caused me), that it would be important for him in general to think about how what he says might make me feel.

It feels lately like we are in different realms when it comes to some emotional capacities. I recognize that I have a lot to learn still, but isn`t it weird to be in an almost motherly position of support?

[ThanksForPlaying]

I've tried this too with mixed results. Sometimes it feels like a manageable situation for a while. There's not even any expectation or commitment on your part - how could you possibly be hurt, right?

What I've found is that the BPD can find wild new ways to hurt you, even when you THINK there are no feelings involved. 

Like they will invent a whole new kind of "breakup" just to hurt you. We're not even "together" so how can we break up? "Well I'm going to un-friend you because you're being too motherly". Stuff like that.

But I'm not opposed to you trying to make it work. I totally get it. And I'm hoping it works for you. Just keep looking out for yourself.

[tina7868]

I appreciate your reply, ThanksForPlaying, this is exactly the type of reality check I am in need of. I will continue down the road of detachment, with the help of therapy, and keep in mind the simple fact that his motivations have consistenly been to seek out the most readily available sources of comfort for years.

[PeteWitsend]

...

What I've found is that the BPD can find wild new ways to hurt you, even when you THINK there are no feelings involved. 

...

Agree with this; divorcing/separating from them puts a more literal boundary up they need to contend with, but chances are they'll find new ways to try to test it, especially if or when there's no one else around to fill their needs/demands & occupy their time. 

The disordered emotional response issue is STILL there; they just realized by expressing it in a certain way resulted in losing you completely. 

[tina7868]

Agree with this; divorcing/separating from them puts a more literal boundary up they need to contend with, but chances are they'll find new ways to try to test it, especially if or when there's no one else around to fill their needs/demands & occupy their time.

The disordered emotional response issue is STILL there; they just realized by expressing it in a certain way resulted in losing you completely. 

Thanks for your reply, PeteWitsend! I know that, inevitably, someone else will fill his needs, and he will withdraw. This knowledge has had the effect of me becoming more guarded myself. I expect even less of him, and when he does say objectively kind things I don`t buy into them. I don`t know if this reflects on me losing some of myself. I guess years of him demonstrating that he will drop me has had deeper effects on me than I realized. I don`t think it`s worth bringing this up to him; these are boundaries and feelings that I can navigate on my part.

I`m still just responding when he reaches out for support. It reminds me of the way I would offer support to a fellow member of this forum.

[PeteWitsend]

Thanks for your reply, PeteWitsend! I know that, inevitably, someone else will fill his needs, and he will withdraw. This knowledge has had the effect of me becoming more guarded myself. I expect even less of him, and when he does say objectively kind things I don`t buy into them. I don`t know if this reflects on me losing some of myself. I guess years of him demonstrating that he will drop me has had deeper effects on me than I realized. I don`t think it`s worth bringing this up to him; these are boundaries and feelings that I can navigate on my part.

I`m still just responding when he reaches out for support. It reminds me of the way I would offer support to a fellow member of this forum.

It's not just that he will withdraw, but he might still be seeking a relationship with you according to his terms and wants and needs (hence the inappropriate question about your romantic life), and so might might get nasty when he realizes that you are not interested in that, regardless of how he goes about it. 

I just think that no matter how they present themselves in the moment, or what sort of vibe they give off in the moment, it could all come crashing to pieces in the next.

I recall countless times BPDxw was cordial and came off as pleasant in once instance, only to be angry and demanding a week later, as though nothing had changed, or vice versa. 

[SinisterComplex]

Hello all  ! Life has been hectic with work and another move on the horizon (not as stressful as the previous one, thankfully!). I wanted to make a new topic in the spirit of a different way of seeing my relationship with my ex with BPD. I want to wrap my head around the situation, and also keep myself grounded in reality, which has proven so important.

After his own breakup, he was in great distress, he reached out to me, and I felt confused. I cared for him, and I started seeing him through a different lense. I found myself in a position where I felt helpful; a lot of his reflections and areas where he was trying to grow were areas I myself had difficulties with when I started writing on these boards about two years ago now. I realized that his actions throughout the years were not based on unresolved feelings for me; he wanted the unconditional comfort that I offered. I also realized that I had been acting out of anxiety and compulsion. An all-around unhealthy dynamic. It made him as a person seem less special in a sense. Now that I have a better grasp of that with the help of therapy, I have been giving him space and, lo and behold, he reaches out more often out of his own accord. I feel like one of the positives of this relationship, this friendship, is that I feel good when I see someone I care about trying and learning and growing. It`s like healing that part of me in the sense of coming full circle.

I keep myself down to earth by reminding myself that he is close to me now, but will most likely drift away when he feels better and or has a new love interest. He expressed recently that he`s `here to stay` this time, due to the aforementioned changes in our dynamic, but time will tell. I find myself gently calling him out in order to assert my boundaries, and he`s been responding well. For example, I told him that it was misplaced for him to have asked about my sexual life while he was in a relationship (a point I wrote about here before, and the confusion it had caused me), that it would be important for him in general to think about how what he says might make me feel.

It feels lately like we are in different realms when it comes to some emotional capacities. I recognize that I have a lot to learn still, but isn`t it weird to be in an almost motherly position of support?

I would say it feels more common when dealing with someone disordered. For lack of a better way of putting it feels like you are dealing with someone where the lights are on but no one is home.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

I would say it feels more common when dealing with someone disordered. For lack of a better way of putting it feels like you are dealing with someone where the lights are on but no one is home.

That is a good way of putting it! It becomes clearer to me daily how one-sided a lot of our interactions are. Paradoxically, as I see the reality of who he is and move towards wanting better for myself, he seems to be more appreciative of my support and presence in his life. I`m proud of him for working hard on himself, facing his fears and trying new things. Yet there is, and I suspect there always will be, something missing.


Here is an example of something that recently made me feel weird (I use the term weird because I don`t really know how I felt). He has been sending me funny memes and videos. He said he does this because he feels comfortable with me. Yet some of these videos are not my sense of humour at all. In fact, some of them are in my opinion juvenile, and although it isn`t blatant, they criticize women and women`s sexuality. I feel strongly about the societal pressure put on women to fit into the mold of what men feel comfortable with.  One video made fun of a stereotype of blonde women who (according to the video) only have the goal of attracting attention from men. Why isn`t there an equivalent video making fun of the men? Why isn`t okay for women to enjoy their beauty?

I realize I might be reading into these meaningless videos a lot. Yet I can`t tell whether it`s my place to gently explain a different perspective about the messages behind these videos to him, or if it`s a lost cause. That it`s important not to feed into the narrative of women being put against each other, that every person is different. All I know is I don`t want to pretend to find them funny when they frustrate me. 

[SinisterComplex]

That is a good way of putting it! It becomes clearer to me daily how one-sided a lot of our interactions are. Paradoxically, as I see the reality of who he is and move towards wanting better for myself, he seems to be more appreciative of my support and presence in his life. I`m proud of him for working hard on himself, facing his fears and trying new things. Yet there is, and I suspect there always will be, something missing.


Here is an example of something that recently made me feel weird (I use the term weird because I don`t really know how I felt). He has been sending me funny memes and videos. He said he does this because he feels comfortable with me. Yet some of these videos are not my sense of humour at all. In fact, some of them are in my opinion juvenile, and although it isn`t blatant, they criticize women and women`s sexuality. I feel strongly about the societal pressure put on women to fit into the mold of what men feel comfortable with.  One video made fun of a stereotype of blonde women who (according to the video) only have the goal of attracting attention from men. Why isn`t there an equivalent video making fun of the men? Why isn`t okay for women to enjoy their beauty?

I realize I might be reading into these meaningless videos a lot. Yet I can`t tell whether it`s my place to gently explain a different perspective about the messages behind these videos to him, or if it`s a lost cause. That it`s important not to feed into the narrative of women being put against each other, that every person is different. All I know is I don`t want to pretend to find them funny when they frustrate me. 

Tina my dear, this is where I will chime in with my usual...wear a raincoat and let the BS roll off of you. Don't respond. There is a hidden element to it...your boundaries are being tested in a sense. Give it no power....remember I always trumpet being firm and indifferent right? This is one of those times where being indifferent is necessary. You know how you feel so remain steadfast in that and don't respond to the BS  . By reacting emotionally you give it power and it shows him externally he got to you and you are still the same as you have always been. Trust me it is indirectly a psychologically game. You are a smart cookie so pay it no mind and go about your business.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[seekingtheway]

Hi Tina,

I agree with Sinister that this is a situation where you're being tested a little bit - to see where your reaction will be.

I tend to think it's pretty futile to try and get someone else to see a new way they should be doing or thinking about things.

All you can do is control your own reaction and proximity to things like that, and if he tends to send you videos that are juvenile and demeaning to women, then you have a number of choices. One is that you can tell him you'd prefer he doesn't send any more videos, a second is that you could just completely ignore any videos that you find distasteful and let your silence do the talking, or a third is that you just don't look at any videos that he sends at all so you don't even know what he's sending and therefore keep your peace.

I'd be going for options number 2 or 3 in an ideal world, because I think option one adds some fuel to the fire he's trying to light.

I'm so glad to hear you saying you feel like you're making more and more strides to thinking about and figuring out what you need. It makes sense that as you become stronger in your own needs and wants, he would come towards you more as a result. But the paradox is that he is attracted to this strength of mind only because strong-minded people can take care of his needs on a level that he deeply craves... but that caretaker dynamic will ultimately drain you and you may lose all the growth and ground that you've gained. I really hope that the path you've chosen at present in terms of honouring your own needs is something that continues no matter what happens from here...

[once removed]

Paradoxically, as I see the reality of who he is and move towards wanting better for myself, he seems to be more appreciative of my support and presence in his life.
...
He has been sending me funny memes and videos. He said he does this because he feels comfortable with me. Yet some of these videos are not my sense of humour at all
...
All I know is I don`t want to pretend to find them funny when they frustrate me.  

is it possible that some of the glow is rubbing off? that, i dare say, youre wondering if he isnt so great?

think about it. memes and videos? him feeling comfortable with you? him initiating contact? youd have killed for that, right?

its okay for this to be a difference, or even a distance between you.

some of that may be because your own perspective is shifting. some of that may be because you arent the same two people you were at the time. some of it may have always been there, and overlooked.

so you find his sense of humor lacking, or even offensive. youre surprised he would expect you to find it funny.

you get to decide what to do with that information. you can respond, or not. you can let it affect the relationship, or not. you can let it affect how you see him, or not.  

what would you normally do, with him? what would you normally do, with anyone else?

[PeteWitsend]

...
I realize I might be reading into these meaningless videos a lot. Yet I can`t tell whether it`s my place to gently explain a different perspective about the messages behind these videos to him, or if it`s a lost cause. That it`s important not to feed into the narrative of women being put against each other, that every person is different. All I know is I don`t want to pretend to find them funny when they frustrate me. 

When I was much younger - i.e. teenager through early 20's - I may have shared inappropriate emails or jokes with girls my age.  It was an immaturity thing on my part, and also a lack of experience dealing with women.  I'd hear other guys say and do things, and brag about things, and try to emulate them.  Or I was just being stupid.
 Thinking back on some of the things I did and said makes me cringe, even all these years later!

If someone would've said to me "Please don't share things like that with me" or "I find that offensive, please don't email me again" I probably would've apologized.  Even if I tried to play it cool, I can guarantee I would've felt a sense of shame for what I did, and been embarrassed. 

I don't know how old the two of you are now, but I assume old enough for him to know better. 

How do you think he'd react if you told him how you felt about what he's sharing?  Would he apologize?  Would he try to claim your response was the problem?

I do agree with SC's comment, that he's likely testing your boundaries in another way.

You know what you want here (or what you don't want).  He's testing a boundary to feel you out, and it's significant to note that it may be considered a sexual boundary, given the content he's sharing. And so it's up to you to establish whether you're going to allow him to keep sending you stuff like this, and what you will to do if he won't stop. 

You might as well assume that this will be the nature of your relationship going forward; he's a user and knows what he wants and will keep trying to get it.  You are not, but are struggling to recognize his behavior for what he is, and want to believe something else. 

[tina7868]

Thank you for your replies  . I was having such a busy time at work, and now that things have finally calmed down I can reflect again (and clean!). This is a long reply because all of your messages have me thinking   .

here is a hidden element to it...your boundaries are being tested in a sense. Give it no power....remember I always trumpet being firm and indifferent right? This is one of those times where being indifferent is necessary. You know how you feel so remain steadfast in that and don't respond to the BS   . By reacting emotionally you give it power and it shows him externally he got to you and you are still the same as you have always been. Trust me it is indirectly a psychologically game. You are a smart cookie so pay it no mind and go about your business.

I didn`t even consider this perspective, which is why your input is always welcome SC!

The conversation ended up going like this:
- Me: maybe they are just enjoying their beauty and like being around boats!
- Him: you are too kind, they are definitely not like that
- Me: How do you know what they are like?
- Him: What people have told me and...it`s just known
- Me: I see! Well it would be interesting, while you are learning and growing yourself, to expand and explore topics like societal pressures. It doesn`t have to be today, but it`s something to think about.
- Him: I just want to relax today 
- Me: That`s perfectly understandable! Just keep in mind that sometimes there are unfair messages behind seemingly meaningless videos and it`s important not to perpetuate them

Since then, he hasn`t sent me any more of these types of videos  . I noticed that I felt incredibly so so uncomfortable after this conversation because I`m used to being more passive. I doubted that I should have said anything, I thought I was overreacting.
-----

I'm so glad to hear you saying you feel like you're making more and more strides to thinking about and figuring out what you need. It makes sense that as you become stronger in your own needs and wants, he would come towards you more as a result. But the paradox is that he is attracted to this strength of mind only because strong-minded people can take care of his needs on a level that he deeply craves... but that caretaker dynamic will ultimately drain you and you may lose all the growth and ground that you've gained. I really hope that the path you've chosen at present in terms of honouring your own needs is something that continues no matter what happens from here...

seekingtheway, I wouldn`t want to compromise my growth and peace of mind for him, that`s for sure. At the moment, I`m ambivalent towards him at best. I`ve been keeping him at arm`s length, and that continues (or is even more pronounced) as he warms up to me. I`m happy for him and the strides that he`s been making, I can tell that he is working very hard to better himself, and I recognize that he was in a very difficult place. But why would I want to be with someone who tests me in this weird way? With someone who was willing to rid himself of me at the drop of the hat? Who won`t ever have the emotional capacity to recognize what I truly offer, beyond support, as a person and a friend? Why was he so aloof towards me for so long?
-----

is it possible that some of the glow is rubbing off? that, i dare say, youre wondering if he isnt so great?

think about it. memes and videos? him feeling comfortable with you? him initiating contact? youd have killed for that, right?

its okay for this to be a difference, or even a distance between you.

some of that may be because your own perspective is shifting. some of that may be because you arent the same two people you were at the time. some of it may have always been there, and overlooked.

so you find his sense of humor lacking, or even offensive. youre surprised he would expect you to find it funny.

you get to decide what to do with that information. you can respond, or not. you can let it affect the relationship, or not. you can let it affect how you see him, or not. 

what would you normally do, with him? what would you normally do, with anyone else?

I think that...yes. Something has changed, onceremoved, and it is coming from me, and I don`t understand it entirely. For a long time, I looked up to him. He was (and is) so smart, and funny, and charismatic. Yet, I think when it comes to emotional intelligence, there is a lot lacking. Also, I don`t feel like I can trust him. I am getting closer to having a solid idea of what I want from a partner, and there is a mismatch between what I want and where he currently is at in his life.

Normally, and by normally I mean years ago, I`d have really overthought the whole situation. I would have seen the video, thought `is this actually funny? does this mean that I shouldn`t be like these girls? what kind of girl should I be? what kind of girl would he like?`. Then I would be extra careful and monitor how I came off so that he thought that I was `cool`. Oh dear, I am happy not to be like that presently and I send love to my past self . I think that I will continue saying something in these moments, and by something I mean asking questions to open up a dialogue. I am not very good at navigating these situations in general, but I`d like to become more solid in myself in general and so this is a good opportunity to practice.
-----

When I was much younger - i.e. teenager through early 20's - I may have shared inappropriate emails or jokes with girls my age.  It was an immaturity thing on my part, and also a lack of experience dealing with women.  I'd hear other guys say and do things, and brag about things, and try to emulate them.  Or I was just being stupid.
Thinking back on some of the things I did and said makes me cringe, even all these years later!

If someone would've said to me "Please don't share things like that with me" or "I find that offensive, please don't email me again" I probably would've apologized.  Even if I tried to play it cool, I can guarantee I would've felt a sense of shame for what I did, and been embarrassed.

I don't know how old the two of you are now, but I assume old enough for him to know better.

How do you think he'd react if you told him how you felt about what he's sharing?  Would he apologize?  Would he try to claim your response was the problem?

I do agree with SC's comment, that he's likely testing your boundaries in another way.

You know what you want here (or what you don't want).  He's testing a boundary to feel you out, and it's significant to note that it may be considered a sexual boundary, given the content he's sharing. And so it's up to you to establish whether you're going to allow him to keep sending you stuff like this, and what you will to do if he won't stop.

You might as well assume that this will be the nature of your relationship going forward; he's a user and knows what he wants and will keep trying to get it.  You are not, but are struggling to recognize his behavior for what he is, and want to believe something else. 

PeteWitsend, we are both in our late 20s. We met when we were 18. I am indeed struggling to recognize his behaviour for what it is. I have difficulty doing that in general. I feel unsettled and disrupted when I realize that things aren`t what they seem, or that people have ulterior motives. I am very offput by the idea of him testing a sexual boundary. It is clear to me that we see dating very differently. He is into all the dating apps. I can understand why people like dating apps. However, I think that looking for a relationship that way is the opposite of how I want to look for a relationship. It`s like having a slot open for `girlfriend` or `boyfriend` and trying and trying to fill it with anyone who comes your way. For me, I want to live my life fully, and if I build a genuine connection with someone along the way, I will build them into my life because I like them. They are special, they are not filling a role for me.

On another note, my father called me the other day. Ever since I moved, he has been ignoring my text messages and calls. Now, he called and said that he doesn`t have any money but that he loves me and that he is working very hard. I immediately called my mother because it broke my heart to imagine my father with no money in his bank account, and I wanted to know if I should be worried. She said that he is making up stories and not to worry because he does have a lot of savings. He has always told stories in which he played the victim, but it`s just weird to me to see it being played out like this. I love him very much, but I don`t understand him. And so I am having a lot of reflection on my father`s role in my worldview these days. All that to say, maybe my ex is a lot more like my father. Before, that didn`t bother me; it made me feel comfortable, like his approval meant everything. Now, I echo my mother in thinking no way, I want better.

[seekingtheway]

You sound so strong and focused in this post, it was really lovely to read.

Made me reflect on a few things.

But why would I want to be with someone who tests me in this weird way? With someone who was willing to rid himself of me at the drop of the hat? Who won`t ever have the emotional capacity to recognize what I truly offer, beyond support, as a person and a friend? Why was he so aloof towards me for so long?

This is the absolute crux of the matter in terms of deciding any type of future with this man. It all comes down to this. Asking yourself these questions again and again will lead you to a place where you have all the answers you need about him. And it's something I feel about my ex too - I don't think he truly got to know or fall in love with me, the funny, quirky, interesting parts of me – because his focus was on what I could do for him or give to him. He couldn't see beyond that. And although my confidence has been really rocked, I do think there's a lot to love about me - and I have a feeling it's the same with you. And all those wonderful parts of you are wasted on him, but could be celebrated and nourished in someone else more worthy of your attention.

I think that I will continue saying something in these moments, and by something I mean asking questions to open up a dialogue. I am not very good at navigating these situations in general, but I`d like to become more solid in myself in general and so this is a good opportunity to practice.

Even though I said in my reply that I thought the best thing was to ignore him, I was really glad to read this because that's the approach you thought was best, and you did it... and it sounded like it did the trick and he's stopped. It made me think about why I suggested to leave it be. I have never been one to stay quiet generally... in fact, it's like I used to have some sort of compulsion to speak out when I felt someone had clearly stepped over a line... I couldn't keep it in! But in the last little while I've learned that sometimes it's better to stay quiet than to react... depending on the audience... when it's cluster B for example... it wasn't safe to speak out... bad things happened when I spoke out. This is not healthy... to be afraid of someone's response, but I do think it is teaching me how to have some restraint and balance in my approach as a whole. Sometimes I do not need to speak, and I can protect my peace a bit more that way. Whereas for you it's the other way around, you are learning you want to speak out more to adjust your natural approach... it's this uncomfortable stretching into places you don't normally hang out that can bring surprising learnings and benefits. And I definitely think there should be room for your voice.

Also, it sounds like an interesting realisation around your father - there's a lot of juice in that stuff. I've been going there with my psychologist too - lots to unpack!!

[tina7868]

Thank you for your thoughtful response, seekingtheway. Reading your perspective and reflections is very enriching to me.

It sounds like I may be in a situation soon here I will see my ex in person after several years. Again, in the past, I would have given anything for this to happen, yet now I feel wary and cautious (and a part of me is also excited, admittedly). It feels like life is throwing this situation at me, just as I gain some ground, as a test of sorts. Granted, I welcomed it to an extent .

I want to remain down to earth. I don`t want to forget all that I`ve been through. He`s being nice enough now, but for a very long time I suffered. Time and time again, he put a relationship with me at risk by blocking me, disregarding my feelings, favouring other people over me...because he could. I let him. Someone who truly loved and cared for me wouldn`t do that. Someone who truly loved and cared for me wouldn`t have had a long term relationship and completely pushed me aside. I wouldn`t have done that to him. I cared about him a lot, and it`s his loss that he didn`t recognize that. All his actions indicate that he would do all of this again, he would replace me in the blink of an eye, because I don`t mean the same thing to him. And that`s okay. I`ve come a long way in realizing that how I feel when I love someone is special, and that the other person doesn`t owe me reciprocal feelings in return. Part of that journey was also realizing that I need to take care of myself first and foremost, and guard my heart when it comes to people who might take advantage of it.

And so, if and when I do see him, I want to be myself. I want to be kind and supportive, encouraging of all of his genuine efforts to grow as a person. I want to help him reflect further, and voice my point of view if I feel like he may benefit from a push in a different directon, just as my close friends have done with me so many times. I want to have fun, because this is a person who means a lot to me and I want to be present and appreciate the time that I have with him. I also want to have solid boundaries. I want to be clear if I need space, I want to be clear that I don`t want to engage in anything physical and that I am meeting him as a friend (because it will confuse me and I am just now gaining enough ground to say I don`t feel the same way about him as I once did), and I want to recognize when I feel like I want to change the subject, either because I am not ready to talk about certain topics with him or because I don`t see the benefit in revisiting something that I already have closure on. I don`t want to walk around eggshells with him, I want to be confident in my hard earned abilities to emotionally regulate if and when a situation comes up where I feel uncomfortable. I want to let him go when I say goodbye, and wish him even more growth on his journey, and for him to meet someone who compliments him and who he wouldn`t risk letting go of, just as I want to find someone who fits into my life and who I can dote over in the ways that I do. That`s a dream that I`ll hold on to; I want to be emotionally available for that person when they come along. I feel like it`s time to put an end to this chapter.

[PeteWitsend]

... That`s a dream that I`ll hold on to; I want to be emotionally available for that person when they come along. I feel like it`s time to put an end to this chapter.

That's all very admirable, but sometimes with a pwBPD, being "emotionally available" is not possible because of their need to push boundaries b/c of their abandonment issues, anxiety, and self-esteem issues. 

I've had this discussion here about how borderlines are almost perfectly designed to take advantage of those of us who are patient and kind and give them the benefit of the doubt when they start to show us who they really are.  We give them a chance, and

Also, you handled the issue with him sharing inappropriate videos really well.  You put the focus back on his motivation and beliefs and forced him to explain these himself, which of course, he couldn't really do. 

[PeteWitsend]

...

I've had this discussion here about how borderlines are almost perfectly designed to take advantage of those of us who are patient and kind and give them the benefit of the doubt when they start to show us who they really are.  We give them a chance, and

...

meant to say "We give them a chance, and they try to immediately force us back into the dysfunctional relationship we had with them, because for them, we met their very selfish needs, and we remember as a painful & exhausting experience." 

I think you can be polite to them, but by making yourself emotionally available, you'll only find that they very quickly try to draw you back in deeper than you're comfortable with.

[tina7868]

PeteWitsend, your words ring true for me.

He did come to visit me, and I was actually looking forward to it. Things have been messy, to say the least. Ups and downs (well mostly downs) all to be expected but hard in ways I hadn’t foreseen. He came on very strong at the beginning, wanting to cuddle and be close to me. I had my boundaries in place. He was very insistent and persuasive. I gave in. The next day, again,  I told him that I felt confused. He said that he is absolutely not interested in a romantic relationship with me. He said that our past was too messy. Even if initially I had this boundary and I knew that he is not good for me. Even if there is love, it is certain that communication, trust, and respect are greatly missing. So now I'm feeling low and rejected, even if I didn’t want to be with him in the first place!

I process this, then feel like I can make the most of this, have fun with him, and then move on when he leaves. But it’s like he keeps adding and controlling the situation. I get happy and excited with my letting go philosophy. He starts being cuddly and soft with me again, but insists that he doesn’t want to be “too romantic”. .

He talks like it all makes sense and that I can`t communicate but he`s changing the rules in this game as he likes and it`s driving me crazy. I`m mad at myself for this. There is no just having fun and enjoying the moment with him, he has to add mind games.
 
I’m sorry if this doesn’t make sense, I just want to get it out and remember how crazy I felt after seeing him. I can’t wait for him to leave, and good riddance! I was listening to him talk and thinking “man, I give up on this!”. It’s over for me, I have a hard case of the ick as people say these days. All of his actions are rooted in self serving purposes, he’s shown me that time and time again.

I just need to get through this. He’s still here for a few days, and I put myself in a situation where I can’t really leave (wouldn’t recommend). Any tips on how to get through?

[seekingtheway]

Hi Tina, it sounds like a very tricky time - is he staying with you in your home?

There's a bit to unpack there in terms of what he's trying to orchestrate, especially if you've tried to communicate boundaries that he's determined to trample over...  it's all kinds of messy... of course it's confusing if he's saying there's absolutely no chance of a relationship, yet he wants to still be close and cuddly with you. It seems clear he is trying to manipulate the situation to get his needs met - but then, that's how someone with BPD is going to act - they almost can't help it. So it kind of needs to be expected.

In terms of how to get through the next few days. All I can suggest is writing down these feelings as they're coming to you - because you do actually sound very clear about how this is making you feel. After all of this time of hoping you'd get chance to spend this time with him, now it's here and it doesn't feel good. It feels wrong. So use this time as an opportunity to solidify exactly how you feel - what it is you don't like about his actions, what feels wrong and why this is NOT want you want. This is actually a powerful time where your body and mind are aligning and telling you in no uncertain terms that this isn't a beneficial situation for you.

If you feel strong enough, sticking to your boundaries for the final part of the trip might help you to have less of an ick feeling afterwards, but regardless, I'd see this as an opportunity to just get very clear on what you want in terms of contact in the future.

[tina7868]

Thanks for your reply, seekingtheway. I am so greatly to have this space, and your support is appreciated from the bottom of my heart. Yes, he`s staying with me. I think he wanted a change of scenery, and I conveniently live in a city not too far from him. I`ve been planning hikes, and we`ve been cooking together.

There's a bit to unpack there in terms of what he's trying to orchestrate, especially if you've tried to communicate boundaries that he's determined to trample over...  it's all kinds of messy... of course it's confusing if he's saying there's absolutely no chance of a relationship, yet he wants to still be close and cuddly with you. It seems clear he is trying to manipulate the situation to get his needs met - but then, that's how someone with BPD is going to act - they almost can't help it. So it kind of needs to be expected.

You are spot on. I didn`t realize until now how used being used to meet someone`s needs can be. This is because, as someone with anxiety, I feel particularly unwell as his needs change from day to day, from hour to hour, and I inevitably feel like I`ve done something wrong when he wants closeness in the morning and then pulls away later. It`s particularly insidious because he does communicate well. I feel like I am being manipulated, but I can`t quite put my finger on it. He seems approachable and wants to `be there` for me, yet I didn`t have a problem before he arrived. It`s like he creates a need for himself and then takes it away. Then, I feel low and rejected, not worthy enough of his attentions.

In terms of how to get through the next few days. All I can suggest is writing down these feelings as they're coming to you - because you do actually sound very clear about how this is making you feel. After all of this time of hoping you'd get chance to spend this time with him, now it's here and it doesn't feel good. It feels wrong. So use this time as an opportunity to solidify exactly how you feel - what it is you don't like about his actions, what feels wrong and why this is NOT want you want. This is actually a powerful time where your body and mind are aligning and telling you in no uncertain terms that this isn't a beneficial situation for you.

I will continue to do this, this is very solid advice. I am feeling upside down.
- I don`t like that his actions are rooted in self-serving intentions
- It feels wrong because I end up putting myself down, ruminating (as I am doing right now)
- This is not what I want because there is no reason for me to be putting myself through this other than the fact that we met by chance 8 years ago

I find myself asking questions like `might he change his mind?`, `how can I prove myself to him?` then going in a spiral regarding how I look, what I say, what I can offer, which are all questions that I don`t like myself asking. I keep repeating the conversation where he told me he does not have romantic feelings for me. When I said a version of `too bad for you`, which is what my friends and stronger self have said about the situation, he said something like `I`m okay with that` and that irks me. I was there for him through 2 mental breakdowns, a breakup, difficulties with his parents, loneliness in a new setting. He blocked me and ran away because it was convenient to him.

When I do, and I am determined now, get clear about what I want in terms of contact in the future, and inevitably remove myself from his life, it is objectively his loss, as my support and care are worth more than his wishy washy pseudopsych communications that make me want to throw up.

[seekingtheway]

I can definitely sense strength and clarity in your words - and if you can keep distilling those thoughts, it may help to push you onwards to a point where you will feel alright about the loss of this connection.

You've explored it in every way you can, including as partners and friends and both when he is in and out of a relationship - and he's been unable to give you what you need and deserve in any of those scenarios. But he knows there's still juice he can squeeze out of your connection, so as long as it's been permitted, he'll probably keep trying to keep that juice.

The anxiety you're feeling makes sense to me - it's a very natural response to inconsistent behaviour, where you don't know where you stand, the story keeps changing, you don't know what is likely to happen from one moment to the next. In this case, your body is telling you this is not a safe situation for you emotionally - there's nothing you need to do to ease that anxiety except for exit the situation...

When I do, and I am determined now, get clear about what I want in terms of contact in the future, and inevitably remove myself from his life, it is objectively his loss, as my support and care are worth more than his wishy washy pseudopsych communications that make me want to throw up.

And yes, it is his loss... absolutely... but just a gentle reminder that you are worth more than your care and support - that's not the only thing of value that you have as a friend or partner. You don't need to give anything in order to earn your place in anyone's life. 

[tina7868]

Thank you again, seekingtheway.

I can definitely sense strength and clarity in your words - and if you can keep distilling those thoughts, it may help to push you onwards to a point where you will feel alright about the loss of this connection.

Thank you for saying that, as I do not feel strong right now. But I am different now, not the same person that I was years ago. I can bounce back from this faster and stronger.

I am thinking of just telling him when he leaves that he cannot give me what I need or desire and that it`s best for us to part ways. I think that I have myself settled on this - it`s hard - but that`s what I want. I have my ressources in place: this support group, my friends, my new skills.

The anxiety you're feeling makes sense to me - it's a very natural response to inconsistent behaviour, where you don't know where you stand, the story keeps changing, you don't know what is likely to happen from one moment to the next. In this case, your body is telling you this is not a safe situation for you emotionally - there's nothing you need to do to ease that anxiety except for exit the situation...

My body is not letting me sleep or eat either  . I need to listen to it.

[jaded7]

I want to remain down to earth. I don`t want to forget all that I`ve been through. He`s being nice enough now, but for a very long time I suffered. Time and time again, he put a relationship with me at risk by blocking me, disregarding my feelings, favouring other people over me...because he could. I let him. Someone who truly loved and cared for me wouldn`t do that. Someone who truly loved and cared for me wouldn`t have had a long term relationship and completely pushed me aside. I wouldn`t have done that to him. I cared about him a lot, and it`s his loss that he didn`t recognize that. All his actions indicate that he would do all of this again, he would replace me in the blink of an eye, because I don`t mean the same thing to him. And that`s okay. I`ve come a long way in realizing that how I feel when I love someone is special, and that the other person doesn`t owe me reciprocal feelings in return. Part of that journey was also realizing that I need to take care of myself first and foremost, and guard my heart when it comes to people who might take advantage of it.

And so, if and when I do see him, I want to be myself. I want to be kind and supportive, encouraging of all of his genuine efforts to grow as a person. I want to help him reflect further, and voice my point of view if I feel like he may benefit from a push in a different directon, just as my close friends have done with me so many times. I want to have fun, because this is a person who means a lot to me and I want to be present and appreciate the time that I have with him. I also want to have solid boundaries. I want to be clear if I need space, I want to be clear that I don`t want to engage in anything physical and that I am meeting him as a friend (because it will confuse me and I am just now gaining enough ground to say I don`t feel the same way about him as I once did), and I want to recognize when I feel like I want to change the subject, either because I am not ready to talk about certain topics with him or because I don`t see the benefit in revisiting something that I already have closure on. I don`t want to walk around eggshells with him, I want to be confident in my hard earned abilities to emotionally regulate if and when a situation comes up where I feel uncomfortable. I want to let him go when I say goodbye, and wish him even more growth on his journey, and for him to meet someone who compliments him and who he wouldn`t risk letting go of, just as I want to find someone who fits into my life and who I can dote over in the ways that I do. That`s a dream that I`ll hold on to; I want to be emotionally available for that person when they come along. I feel like it`s time to put an end to this chapter.

Hi Tina, just quoting your wishes on the July 2nd. I wish all of these for you still. You have it in you.

You mentioned above recognizing how one-sided the relationship has been, and how he wanted you for emotional support even after
he was out. That's not fair.

[seekingtheway]

I am thinking of just telling him when he leaves that he cannot give me what I need or desire and that it`s best for us to part ways. I think that I have myself settled on this - it`s hard - but that`s what I want. I have my ressources in place: this support group, my friends, my new skills.

You got this – let us know how it goes. Just be aware that he might not take that news lying down. A show of strength and clarity like that is most likely going to spur him to move closer to you. A strong, sure exit often makes someone with a fear of abandonment come running back, desperate to reverse the decision, regardless of whether he wants a relationship or not, he might suddenly start saying he does.

If you feel worried about him doing this and you not being able to hold the boundary strong, it's also okay to give him only half of the story... I usually found my ex would run a mile if I got emotional, cried a bit and told him how much I loved him .

[tina7868]

Thank you jaded7, and seekingtheway, your continued support and encouragement is much appreciated.

I felt weird around him today, but at some point I had a moment of clarity, with your words resonating in my head: I am happy. I am not losing anything. I am a whole person. I love myself. I don`t need him. I am free to be with someone who is good to me. I am free to be with someone who doesn`t make me sad. I am lucky to have this freedom.

In a twist of events, someone really close to me told me that they had feelings for me. He understands the situation with my ex, and said that he was just telling me how he felt because he wanted to get it off his chest and that he has no expectations and just wants to get to know me more. I find the timing...I don`t have the words to describe it. I feel warmly about this person. I am grateful, because he was recognizing me with his words. For every put down I had with my ex, this other person saw goodness in me and it helped me put into perspective that I want to be around people who appreciate me.

[seekingtheway]

I am happy. I am not losing anything. I am a whole person. I love myself. I don`t need him. I am free to be with someone who is good to me. I am free to be with someone who doesn`t make me sad. I am lucky to have this freedom.

What an interesting development! The Universe is potentially slipping in there with a bit of a road sign, I think?! Even if you don't return feelings to this particular person, there will be plenty of people out there ready and willing to create a healthy, reciprocal relationship with you where you are seen and appreciated for you.

I was talking to someone about what happened with my ex recently and they asked me what it was that I wanted... and my instant reply was 'I just want peace'. And this feels so true to me - it's the way I prefer to live my life in all ways - peacefully. And they told me that he'll always steal my peace, because he doesn't have any of his own. And I've been repeating this to myself because it's exactly what happened. Maybe some people are built to handle drama and chaos, but if you've got a sensitive system, it takes a toll so quickly and wears you down and honestly just makes you ill!

[jaded7]

Thank you jaded7, and seekingtheway, your continued support and encouragement is much appreciated.

I felt weird around him today, but at some point I had a moment of clarity, with your words resonating in my head: I am happy. I am not losing anything. I am a whole person. I love myself. I don`t need him. I am free to be with someone who is good to me. I am free to be with someone who doesn`t make me sad. I am lucky to have this freedom.

In a twist of events, someone really close to me told me that they had feelings for me. He understands the situation with my ex, and said that he was just telling me how he felt because he wanted to get it off his chest and that he has no expectations and just wants to get to know me more. I find the timing...I don`t have the words to describe it. I feel warmly about this person. I am grateful, because he was recognizing me with his words. For every put down I had with my ex, this other person saw goodness in me and it helped me put into perspective that I want to be around people who appreciate me.

Such a good set of insights! You are a whole person, not the shell of the functioning human being they make us out to be. We have good hearts, and mean well, and they can't see that. Or won't. Likely because it serves them in some fashion to keep us feeling bad about ourselves.

WE are free to be with someone who is good to us. Yes. We do not deserve to be yelled at, called names, put down, belittled. Ghosted and evaded. The confusion is not our fault, and it is not kind and respectful to create this confusion in another person.

Very interesting about the person confessing feelings for you. Be careful! You are in a rough state right now, and sometimes people will come in and take advantage of that. Just a caution, it could be a very good thing, I don't know. It does help you to believe that you are a person with good qualities and who others would be attracted to.

The words our partners used against us can really get stuck in our heads, so it must be nice to have some positive words.

[tina7868]

What an interesting development! The Universe is potentially slipping in there with a bit of a road sign, I think?! Even if you don't return feelings to this particular person, there will be plenty of people out there ready and willing to create a healthy, reciprocal relationship with you where you are seen and appreciated for you.

I was talking to someone about what happened with my ex recently and they asked me what it was that I wanted... and my instant reply was 'I just want peace'. And this feels so true to me - it's the way I prefer to live my life in all ways - peacefully. And they told me that he'll always steal my peace, because he doesn't have any of his own. And I've been repeating this to myself because it's exactly what happened. Maybe some people are built to handle drama and chaos, but if you've got a sensitive system, it takes a toll so quickly and wears you down and honestly just makes you ill!

I feel the unpleasantness in my body pretty readily. I feel the normal anxious symptoms, but also the desire to have his `approval` and I hate it. Today, I decided to forego an activity with him. The moment he left, I felt my anxiety lift. I think the inconsistency of his behaviour puts me on edge. Here are some other things I`ve noted over the past few days:

- He said that he does not take other people`s feelings into consideration, that his feelings are above everyone else`s. While I can appreciate the importance of putting oneself first, there is also value in kindness and understanding which I think he lacks. He certainly benefited from me having this quality myself, as when he was at the hospital I picked up the phone despite him having blocked me time and time again, and I listened and supported him. I like this part of myself. I wouldn`t change having done that.
- He is constantly on his phone, messaging his `friends`, he keeps his phone right next to him no matter what he is doing. This habit irks me. I do think it`s a comfort measure for him, and to be fair, when we are apart (and he is talking to me!) he similarly will answer my texts incredibly fast while he is around other people. In particular, I know that he did that with me when he was still with his girlfriend.
- I can`t say for sure, but it certainly seems like sometimes when I am happy he will get quiet and come back saying something to `burst my bubble`. It can seem innocent, like not going along with my joke, but it does leave me feeling deflated after.

Such a good set of insights! You are a whole person, not the shell of the functioning human being they make us out to be. We have good hearts, and mean well, and they can't see that. Or won't. Likely because it serves them in some fashion to keep us feeling bad about ourselves.

WE are free to be with someone who is good to us. Yes. We do not deserve to be yelled at, called names, put down, belittled. Ghosted and evaded. The confusion is not our fault, and it is not kind and respectful to create this confusion in another person.

Very interesting about the person confessing feelings for you. Be careful! You are in a rough state right now, and sometimes people will come in and take advantage of that. Just a caution, it could be a very good thing, I don't know. It does help you to believe that you are a person with good qualities and who others would be attracted to.

The words our partners used against us can really get stuck in our heads, so it must be nice to have some positive words.

I agree that I am not in a good position to pursue something with another person, and I communicated that. It mostly makes me feel like, while I have pouring all this energy into my ex, I haven`t been getting anything back. Meanwhile, I could have been 100% surrounded by people who do love and care for me, in the way I need and receive love.

When do you think I should share with him how I feel? Before he leaves? In person? I want to say something like this:
I`m happy to have welcomed you into my home. You were a wonderful guest and it made me happy to see you in person again after so long. I`ve noticed over the past few days that we have many differences that lead me to the conclusion that we shouldn`t be friends. I care about you, and wish you all the growth and happiness.

[once removed]

When do you think I should share with him how I feel? Before he leaves? In person? I want to say something like this:
I`m happy to have welcomed you into my home. You were a wonderful guest and it made me happy to see you in person again after so long. I`ve noticed over the past few days that we have many differences that lead me to the conclusion that we shouldn`t be friends. I care about you, and wish you all the growth and happiness.

are you 100% sure this (severing the relationship) is what you want to do?

or is it something that you feel like doing/feel like youre supposed to do given how youre feeling?

[tina7868]

I feel like it’s what I need to do because of how I’m feeling, and how clear he was when he said that he has absolutely no romantic feelings for me. When there was the ambiguity, and I got a sense of what being close to him was like, it felt nice. But he doesn’t respect and being his friend is too hard it feels like.