new directions and growth

[tina7868]

Ooof, my feelings are all over the place! Having him come and stay with me for a few days isn`t a decision I`d recommend, yet the learning and conclusions are coming at an accelerated pace. I will surely need to spend time processing my realizations, but I don`t think they`d have been this clear if he had not come. So, yay  ?

- He didn`t love me. He doesn`t love me. He liked the way I made him feel. I made him feel like he was a special person. But beyond that? He doesn`t recognize me for who I am. Not even as a friend.
- I am not a big part of his life, while he is a big part of mine. Despite recently talking to me every day, to him this was more in line with the above point and less in line with him growing to know and care for me
- I am the only `friend` who has been a consistent part of his life
- He doesn`t recognize the role that he played in making me act the way I did and the way I do. He sees me as having issues (which I do), but I know and you know that being in a relationship with a person with BPD is in and of itself crazy-making.
- He doesn`t recognize that him reaching out and talking to me regularly while he was in a relationship was a dodgy thing to do
- He was clear that he doesn`t want a romantic relationship with me, now or ever. Again, I had started to absorb that I was at fault for reading into his continued interactions with me (which turned out to be momentary distractions when other dates, relationships, whatever were not going well in his life).
- I was so excited because I had hoped that we would experience a wonderful connection on his trip (platonic!) as we were `finally` able to be together without the rest of the world coming in our way. Yet I feel intense anxiety around him, I feel unhappy, I feel like I`m not enough, I feel like I need to act differently because he likes other people more than me, I feel like he used me for my support and comfort
- I have my own pattern; I start feeling like I need to `show him` that I can be detached and that he can experience life without me, and I try (with solid intentions) to cut him off. Then, I feel intense anxiety, and convince myself that being friends is actually okay. He, of course, relents because his feelings are not involved, and he `gives me a chance` - we get back to square one
- I wish, in an ideal world, that I didn`t care what he thought about me. That I was solid enough in my own self that I could be there for him because I am a person who values that, and that I had a take it or leave it attitude when it comes to acceptance of myself.
- I wish I had handled a lot of these situations differently. I guess I shouldn`t ruminate too much about it now - what happened has past, the present is what counts, and I can move forward with grace.
- I need therapy 

[once removed]

youre going to be okay 

I need therapy

all kidding aside, i know what its like to be stuck in a pattern with someone, and it feels impossible to just find equilibrium with how they see you, or with how you see them. its miserable. and it can feel enormous.

act the way I did and the way I do.

you said you saw this as a test of sorts. feelings aside (if only for a moment) how do you think you "dealt with"/"handled" the visit, in terms of how you acted, or didnt?

[tina7868]

Thank you once removed! I appreciate some levity when everything feels pretty convoluted.

You said you saw this as a test of sorts. feelings aside (if only for a moment) how do you think you "dealt with"/"handled" the visit, in terms of how you acted, or didnt?

Well the visit is ongoing, so a full review will come (he`s here until Wednesday). It was very intense when he first came. I am trying not to be ashamed of the fact that I `gave in` to his approach, at least initially, and also not be mad at him for it. I tried to pivot and accustomize myself, first saying that I could enjoy the moment and have fun, and when afterwards he said that he didn`t think it was a good idea anymore I tried to adapt once again and tell myself that this is for the best. I have been taking more space (in a more passive way), opting out of activities in order to relax by myself. I know very well that he is still in love with his ex. I can sense it.

I know that I have difficulty letting him go. I wish he had let me go too.

[seekingtheway]

It's a lot of pressure to put on yourself to have it all figured out in your head and deliver a decision to him by the end of the trip. If he's triggering you whilst being near you, your head will naturally be all over the place.

I wonder what it would feel like to just create some space after he leaves, and sit with yourself for a while, sit with all the thoughts and observations you've listed, and yes, maybe even get some therapy to support you as you sort out how you feel and what you want?

Being clear and removing ambiguity is ultimately always a good thing, but sometimes our need to do it straight away is based in anxiety and fear. It can be helpful to communicate from a different space – one where you feel grounded, steady and sure – and time and space might be needed for that.

[tina7868]

So seekingtheway, your advice is sound and what I would tell someone else in my position. However, things went down very differently yesterday  . I reached a breaking point. Here is what happened. I am writing this after the best night`s sleep I`ve had in four days. I want to try not to leave any details out, since I will reread this.

Something I hadn`t mentioned was that my friends have been checking up on me frequently throughout the day. I have been honest with them about when my ex was coming and what was happening. They would say hi, tell me about their days, tell me that they were there to listen and that they love me. I would take these calls outside, or take the opportunity to go sit by myself. There was also the call from the guy who told me about his feelings for me, which lasted longer and left me smiling. My ex heard me laughing and would make comments like `you don`t laugh like that with me`.  He also went out for supper by himself and contacted a friend in the city that he hadn`t mentioned before.

As I said, I let him go out on his own yesterday. I cleaned and relaxed. I made lunch. When he got back, he was super disengaged, which was understandable because he was tired. I don`t know what took over me, but I started feeling that his presence was bothering me. I asked him what he saw our relationship as being moving forward. He answered `support or friend`. I said that support and friend are two different roles. I mentioned things he said over the past few days: he didn`t think we`d be friends if we met today, he doesn`t think we are compatible. Why was he spending time with me? What about the physical feelings that he mentioned? To this he replied that he didn`t have physical feelings for me anymore, that sleeping with me when he first came was like closure to him. That hurt. I knew he didn`t love me, but I didn`t realize that this relationship was built on straws. I asked him if he liked me or if he liked the way I made him feel: special. He said he likes the way I make him feel. He said my love for him feels unconditional. I said `it was` and he said `thank you`.

He`s still pining for his ex. He thinks that he can win her back. I was more of a `Tina is back` or `Tina is dropped` side character in his life. I told him that the past three years had been very difficult for me, that when he kept coming back into the picture it kept me from moving on and that I know it affected my ability to have my own relationship. He said sorry. I said that the way he told me that he was dating his girlfriend was particularly difficult for me. In that call, he called me pathetic, shameful. He said sorry. He said that he felt that way about himself because he knew that he was stringing me along (he didn`t remember the call though). He seems to not remember a lot of things that were significant to me. He said he called because he didn`t have anyone else to turn to and he knew I`d be there. His apologies felt meaningless.

I asked him if he could stay with this friend he was having supper with. I wasn`t yelling or crying. I was calm and resolved. I knew the anxiety would come later, but I also felt like I couldn`t have him in my space any longer. We had made plans over the next couple of days, but it felt like I couldn`t imagine what we would talk about after all of this was on the table. I asked him if he could leave now. I told him that talking wasn`t something I wanted anymore either. I let him gather his stuff. One of my friends stayed on the phone with me. My ex said `fine with me`, `okay okay` and got ready. When he was at the door, he paused. He said it was rude for me to be on the phone, so I told my friend that I`d call him back. He said that I was being disrespectful. What I saw in his eyes was hurt now. He said that over the past few months he was being honest and vulnerable with me, and that he could finally trust someone, and it wasn`t fair to him. I said that I can`t be his support person anymore because of how I felt. I said that he wasn`t able to give me what I wanted in a relationship. He said that I didn`t even know what I wanted. I said that I knew what I didn`t want. I asked him not to contact me again and to let me move on. He said he didn`t like my tone. I repeated that he needed to leave. He left.

That was dramatic! I realize that things snowballed pretty fast. Like I said, I felt calm. The moment he left, I felt a weight lifted off of me, and I slept. Three of my friends called me. Every single one of them was happy. I know the anxiety will come. Not only do I have OCD, but the toxic nature of the relationship has undoubtedly messed with my brain. But I can deal with that seperately, and with the support that I have.

I think seeing him in person for several days was what did it. Over text, with little slights or misunderstandings, I would give myself space and let things go. In person, the contrast between what he said and what he did and how hurt I truly felt was unavoidable. The questions that I had to ask came out of me. The relationship thrived with ambiguities and misinterpretations, and it took the truth staring me right in the face for me to feel done with it.

Alrighty, I am going to need help sifting through this one.

[jaded7]

So seekingtheway, your advice is sound and what I would tell someone else in my position. However, things went down very differently yesterday  . I reached a breaking point. Here is what happened. I am writing this after the best night`s sleep I`ve had in four days. I want to try not to leave any details out, since I will reread this.

Something I hadn`t mentioned was that my friends have been checking up on me frequently throughout the day. I have been honest with them about when my ex was coming and what was happening. They would say hi, tell me about their days, tell me that they were there to listen and that they love me. I would take these calls outside, or take the opportunity to go sit by myself. There was also the call from the guy who told me about his feelings for me, which lasted longer and left me smiling. My ex heard me laughing and would make comments like `you don`t laugh like that with me`.  He also went out for supper by himself and contacted a friend in the city that he hadn`t mentioned before.

As I said, I let him go out on his own yesterday. I cleaned and relaxed. I made lunch. When he got back, he was super disengaged, which was understandable because he was tired. I don`t know what took over me, but I started feeling that his presence was bothering me. I asked him what he saw our relationship as being moving forward. He answered `support or friend`. I said that support and friend are two different roles. I mentioned things he said over the past few days: he didn`t think we`d be friends if we met today, he doesn`t think we are compatible. Why was he spending time with me? What about the physical feelings that he mentioned? To this he replied that he didn`t have physical feelings for me anymore, that sleeping with me when he first came was like closure to him. That hurt. I knew he didn`t love me, but I didn`t realize that this relationship was built on straws. I asked him if he liked me or if he liked the way I made him feel: special. He said he likes the way I make him feel. He said my love for him feels unconditional. I said `it was` and he said `thank you`.

He`s still pining for his ex. He thinks that he can win her back. I was more of a `Tina is back` or `Tina is dropped` side character in his life. I told him that the past three years had been very difficult for me, that when he kept coming back into the picture it kept me from moving on and that I know it affected my ability to have my own relationship. He said sorry. I said that the way he told me that he was dating his girlfriend was particularly difficult for me. In that call, he called me pathetic, shameful. He said sorry. He said that he felt that way about himself because he knew that he was stringing me along (he didn`t remember the call though). He seems to not remember a lot of things that were significant to me. He said he called because he didn`t have anyone else to turn to and he knew I`d be there. His apologies felt meaningless.

I asked him if he could stay with this friend he was having supper with. I wasn`t yelling or crying. I was calm and resolved. I knew the anxiety would come later, but I also felt like I couldn`t have him in my space any longer. We had made plans over the next couple of days, but it felt like I couldn`t imagine what we would talk about after all of this was on the table. I asked him if he could leave now. I told him that talking wasn`t something I wanted anymore either. I let him gather his stuff. One of my friends stayed on the phone with me. My ex said `fine with me`, `okay okay` and got ready. When he was at the door, he paused. He said it was rude for me to be on the phone, so I told my friend that I`d call him back. He said that I was being disrespectful. What I saw in his eyes was hurt now. He said that over the past few months he was being honest and vulnerable with me, and that he could finally trust someone, and it wasn`t fair to him. I said that I can`t be his support person anymore because of how I felt. I said that he wasn`t able to give me what I wanted in a relationship. He said that I didn`t even know what I wanted. I said that I knew what I didn`t want. I asked him not to contact me again and to let me move on. He said he didn`t like my tone. I repeated that he needed to leave. He left.

That was dramatic! I realize that things snowballed pretty fast. Like I said, I felt calm. The moment he left, I felt a weight lifted off of me, and I slept. Three of my friends called me. Every single one of them was happy. I know the anxiety will come. Not only do I have OCD, but the toxic nature of the relationship has undoubtedly messed with my brain. But I can deal with that seperately, and with the support that I have.

I think seeing him in person for several days was what did it. Over text, with little slights or misunderstandings, I would give myself space and let things go. In person, the contrast between what he said and what he did and how hurt I truly felt was unavoidable. The questions that I had to ask came out of me. The relationship thrived with ambiguities and misinterpretations, and it took the truth staring me right in the face for me to feel done with it.

Alrighty, I am going to need help sifting through this one.

Oh Tina. It feels like an authentic, strong, self-loving part of you came out here. After everything that's happened, you were resolute and calm. That' huge. This seems like the 'real' you, the good person you are breaking through all the confusion and hurt.

"I asked him if he could stay with this friend he was having supper with. I wasn`t yelling or crying. I was calm and resolved. I knew the anxiety would come later, but I also felt like I couldn`t have him in my space any longer. We had made plans over the next couple of days, but it felt like I couldn`t imagine what we would talk about after all of this was on the table. I asked him if he could leave now. I told him that talking wasn`t something I wanted anymore either. I let him gather his stuff. One of my friends stayed on the phone with me. My ex said `fine with me`, `okay okay` and got ready. When he was at the door, he paused. He said it was rude for me to be on the phone, so I told my friend that I`d call him back. He said that I was being disrespectful. What I saw in his eyes was hurt now. He said that over the past few months he was being honest and vulnerable with me, and that he could finally trust someone, and it wasn`t fair to him. I said that I can`t be his support person anymore because of how I felt. I said that he wasn`t able to give me what I wanted in a relationship. He said that I didn`t even know what I wanted. I said that I knew what I didn`t want. I asked him not to contact me again and to let me move on. He said he didn`t like my tone. I repeated that he needed to leave. He left."

Wow. Notice all the reversing of blame and deflection. HE told you a while back that he's selfish. HE told you he doesn't think of others (you). HE told you he doesn't take other people's feelings into consideration. HE told you that he just wants support from you (and validation). HE told you he slept with you as closure. HE told you he uses people as a distraction.

And in the moment of you standing up for yourself, he reverses it all on to you. Now you're rude for being on the phone in his presence, when he did that all the time. You're disrespectful when he disrespected your personhood and autonomy and your lovely heart. 'Could finally trust someone', which he means to make you feel you are breaking his trust. When he's done that all along. You don't know what you wanted, when he obviously doesn't know what he wants and has strung you along, and had sex with you when he really didn't care and admitted he did it because he didn't know what he wanted, until after. He doesn't like your tone.

A good-hearted person would recognize the pain and suffering in someone that cares about them, and would want to alleviate. Which means all of this wouldn't have started in the first place. But it went on a long time, and he didn't care as long as he was getting what he needs. He said so out loud. A good-hearted person, or non-disordered person, would see in the exchange above his role in making your feel this way and the obvious truths of what your'e saying to him. But he couldn't, or wouldn't, and needed to then make it about you being a bad person. Or hurting him. This is more manipulation, knowing your good heart and spirit, he's trying to make you feel bad...again.

Good job Tina, at least from my perspective.

[seekingtheway]

Hi Tina, hugs for getting through what sounds like a stressful 24 hours.
I agree with Jaded that it does sound like an authentic part of you surfaced and just couldn't be contained any longer. You've been clear in saying that this situation doesn't serve you, and it all came to a head because it just felt untenable while having him in your space. There's nothing wrong with how you approached it, it's just a case of not letting the anxiety that will inevitably come on the back of this uncomfortable exchange get the better of you and you go back on it. Try and hold strong for now while you process it.

I don't have very long to write now, but the thing that stands out is that, in his interpretation at least, your connection is based on you supporting him and that's pretty much it. If he wasn't even able to warmly confirm that you are indeed friends, then it's wandered straight into the realm of a situationship –something that is defined by meeting his physical and emotional needs, but not yours?

It sounds like he thought this is literally what you were offering him - and perhaps that is indeed how it's been for some time - you being there for him when he needs it and not the other way around. But that's not the way any healthy connection is set up. Even if it's a connection purely based on friendship or support – that dynamic only works long-term if it's reciprocal and balanced, which it's clearly not. So of course it doesn't work for you.

The fact he slept with you on the first part of the trip shows that he does understand you have romantic feelings for him still – he knows this. And he probably instinctively knows that as long as those feelings continue for you, you'll be happy to stay as a support. It's a tool he can used to keep you invested... and for his needs to be met... until he doesn't need that any more.

So lots of support sent your way as you now traverse the anxiety and crappy feelings that you'll no doubt now have to face. I am so glad you have a good friend network to help you move through it. And we're here too. Hugs.

[SinisterComplex]

So seekingtheway, your advice is sound and what I would tell someone else in my position. However, things went down very differently yesterday  . I reached a breaking point. Here is what happened. I am writing this after the best night`s sleep I`ve had in four days. I want to try not to leave any details out, since I will reread this.

Something I hadn`t mentioned was that my friends have been checking up on me frequently throughout the day. I have been honest with them about when my ex was coming and what was happening. They would say hi, tell me about their days, tell me that they were there to listen and that they love me. I would take these calls outside, or take the opportunity to go sit by myself. There was also the call from the guy who told me about his feelings for me, which lasted longer and left me smiling. My ex heard me laughing and would make comments like `you don`t laugh like that with me`.  He also went out for supper by himself and contacted a friend in the city that he hadn`t mentioned before.

As I said, I let him go out on his own yesterday. I cleaned and relaxed. I made lunch. When he got back, he was super disengaged, which was understandable because he was tired. I don`t know what took over me, but I started feeling that his presence was bothering me. I asked him what he saw our relationship as being moving forward. He answered `support or friend`. I said that support and friend are two different roles. I mentioned things he said over the past few days: he didn`t think we`d be friends if we met today, he doesn`t think we are compatible. Why was he spending time with me? What about the physical feelings that he mentioned? To this he replied that he didn`t have physical feelings for me anymore, that sleeping with me when he first came was like closure to him. That hurt. I knew he didn`t love me, but I didn`t realize that this relationship was built on straws. I asked him if he liked me or if he liked the way I made him feel: special. He said he likes the way I make him feel. He said my love for him feels unconditional. I said `it was` and he said `thank you`.

He`s still pining for his ex. He thinks that he can win her back. I was more of a `Tina is back` or `Tina is dropped` side character in his life. I told him that the past three years had been very difficult for me, that when he kept coming back into the picture it kept me from moving on and that I know it affected my ability to have my own relationship. He said sorry. I said that the way he told me that he was dating his girlfriend was particularly difficult for me. In that call, he called me pathetic, shameful. He said sorry. He said that he felt that way about himself because he knew that he was stringing me along (he didn`t remember the call though). He seems to not remember a lot of things that were significant to me. He said he called because he didn`t have anyone else to turn to and he knew I`d be there. His apologies felt meaningless.

I asked him if he could stay with this friend he was having supper with. I wasn`t yelling or crying. I was calm and resolved. I knew the anxiety would come later, but I also felt like I couldn`t have him in my space any longer. We had made plans over the next couple of days, but it felt like I couldn`t imagine what we would talk about after all of this was on the table. I asked him if he could leave now. I told him that talking wasn`t something I wanted anymore either. I let him gather his stuff. One of my friends stayed on the phone with me. My ex said `fine with me`, `okay okay` and got ready. When he was at the door, he paused. He said it was rude for me to be on the phone, so I told my friend that I`d call him back. He said that I was being disrespectful. What I saw in his eyes was hurt now. He said that over the past few months he was being honest and vulnerable with me, and that he could finally trust someone, and it wasn`t fair to him. I said that I can`t be his support person anymore because of how I felt. I said that he wasn`t able to give me what I wanted in a relationship. He said that I didn`t even know what I wanted. I said that I knew what I didn`t want. I asked him not to contact me again and to let me move on. He said he didn`t like my tone. I repeated that he needed to leave. He left.

That was dramatic! I realize that things snowballed pretty fast. Like I said, I felt calm. The moment he left, I felt a weight lifted off of me, and I slept. Three of my friends called me. Every single one of them was happy. I know the anxiety will come. Not only do I have OCD, but the toxic nature of the relationship has undoubtedly messed with my brain. But I can deal with that seperately, and with the support that I have.

I think seeing him in person for several days was what did it. Over text, with little slights or misunderstandings, I would give myself space and let things go. In person, the contrast between what he said and what he did and how hurt I truly felt was unavoidable. The questions that I had to ask came out of me. The relationship thrived with ambiguities and misinterpretations, and it took the truth staring me right in the face for me to feel done with it.

Alrighty, I am going to need help sifting through this one.

So first... . Next... . Lastly, my darling Tina can we focus on moving forward now? 

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Thank you all for your continued support and encouragement  ! It brings me a lot of comfort, and I am so grateful. I feel reassured that I did the right thing. Indeed, the crappy anxiety feelings have surfaced (more about that in a second).

Yesterday, I found a friend who could join me on the hike I was originally going to go on with my ex  . It was gorgeous! I am glad I followed through with that. Being in nature was healing, and the exercise took my mind off my feelings.

Slowly but surely, they returned. A deepseated anxiety that hit me like a brick when felt in full force. I wonder if I reacted too harshly. I know that, over text, the relationship would have continued for much longer. I feel my need for reassurance-seeking. What is he thinking now? Will my distance and losing me change anything? The only comfort I seem to have is in this coping mechanism (which my therapist said is part of OCD) : I ask my mom whether she thinks I will hear from him again. I cannot handle it otherwise.

I hate these thoughts. I know I`m not supposed to be judgemental, but they feel like poison. There are many times where I should have left things alone (like after the first time he asked me whether I had feelings and I said no) just to protect my sanity.

[once removed]

I feel my need for reassurance-seeking. What is he thinking now? Will my distance and losing me change anything? The only comfort I seem to have is in this coping mechanism (which my therapist said is part of OCD) : I ask my mom whether she thinks I will hear from him again. I cannot handle it otherwise.

here is the thing.

if this was done with the intention of hoping he would see what he loses, and that his feelings or actions would change, that is unlikely to happen. why? because bpd, being shame based, leads to a fear of vulnerability.

anyone in his position, bpd or not, after what happened, would be taking a risk in reaching out to you to repair things, with no reason to believe you would change your mind.

so, however he feels, he is disincentivized to reach out to you.

i understand reassurance is what will help right now, but i wouldnt put faith in something happening that has no real reason to happen. its your court that the ball is in.

having said that: your reaction wasnt unreasonable. it may have been necessary. its understandable you would have mixed feelings about it. speaking to your fears, there is no great need for urgency here. you can sit on this, sort through your feelings as they simmer, and decide what, if anything, you want to do.

[tina7868]

Thank you for your message, once removed, your insights are always so spot on.

if this was done with the intention of hoping he would see what he loses, and that his feelings or actions would change, that is unlikely to happen. why? because bpd, being shame based, leads to a fear of vulnerability.

anyone in his position, bpd or not, after what happened, would be taking a risk in reaching out to you to repair things, with no reason to believe you would change your mind.

so, however he feels, he is disincentivized to reach out to you.

I can say with 100% certainty that it was not my intention for him to see what he loses. It was done out of reaching my limit and, in that moment, the reality of the situation hitting me. I am greatly uncomfortable with asserting my boundaries and voicing my needs (as I can tell from the discomfort of just telling him that I didn`t like a video he had sent to me). This feels like an intense version of that.

i understand reassurance is what will help right now, but i wouldnt put faith in something happening that has no real reason to happen. its your court that the ball is in.

having said that: your reaction wasnt unreasonable. it may have been necessary. its understandable you would have mixed feelings about it. speaking to your fears, there is no great need for urgency here. you can sit on this, sort through your feelings as they simmer, and decide what, if anything, you want to do.

I am also uncomfortable, and unfamiliar, with the ball being in my court, as you know   .

Could you expand on why my reaction wasn`t unreasonable and may have been necessary? I plan on going over this with my therapist. A theme that emerged was that I actually do know how I feel, I do know what I want and what I need to do, but I get muddled in so much self doubt that I mistrust myself.

I`m trying to adopt the mindset that it is important for to walk away from this situation and mean it, being okay with whether he never comes back, to completely stop chasing (emotionally and spiritually as well). To keep my boundaries and distance in place, and trust that the future will unfold as it was meant to. But that a relationship that was meant to be wouldn`t encompass me suffering so much.

[once removed]

I can say with 100% certainty that it was not my intention for him to see what he loses. It was done out of reaching my limit and, in that moment, the reality of the situation hitting me.

Could you expand on why my reaction wasn`t unreasonable and may have been necessary?

it is pretty hard to come back from a conversation where you are told that the relationship means different things to both people. its a lot like one person wanting kids, and the other doesnt. where do you go from there?

it seems like something you felt you had to do, needed to do, and it came from an authentic and heartfelt place.

i get the sense that despite your anxiety and doubt, you really believe this was the right and necessary thing to do. i trust that.

reasonable in the sense that it was what sounds like a "righteous losing of your cool". necessary in order to close the book. it wasnt the only option, but it seemed sort of inevitable.

i dont know him, and i dont mean to disparage someone you have cared for and have a history with when i say you consistently paint a picture of someone that is not an outstanding person, is shallow, immature, and selfish; nothing against him, but im reminded of what he asked you once: "whats in it for you?"

of course, emotionally, theres always something in it for us.

i think the picture painted couldnt be looked past anymore, and because of that, it was already over, whether it had happened like this or not.

A theme that emerged was that I actually do know how I feel, I do know what I want and what I need to do, but I get muddled in so much self doubt that I mistrust myself.

you found your voice

[tina7868]

i dont know him, and i dont mean to disparage someone you have cared for and have a history with when i say you consistently paint a picture of someone that is not an outstanding person, is shallow, immature, and selfish; nothing against him, but im reminded of what he asked you once: "whats in it for you?"

of course, emotionally, theres always something in it for us.

i think the picture painted couldnt be looked past anymore, and because of that, it was already over, whether it had happened like this or not.

The moments that made me happy from his trip were when he was present with me, when we cuddled, when we cooked together, when I doted on him by bringing him water or a snack or gave him a massage, when my friend called and he said hi to her and they chatted and we shared what plans we had for the day, when we`d be out and I`d ask if he wanted to sit in the shade for a bit because he seemed to be getting hot. It made me happy to care for him. I can`t deny that I have these feelings for him. Looking back, this is what I wanted from him all along. The anxiety crept in as what I desired was shown to me and then taken away. And it`s okay for him not to share the same objectives as me. That difference itself is reason enough to walk away.

When I read back on how I was feeling before he arrived, I had been ambivalent about his presence in my life. As much as it feels like I was rejected and that he didn`t want me, another perspective is that I finally realized he wasn`t what I wanted either, and I made the decision to walk away. I had a lot of these realizations before. I felt it when his grandmother passed away and I wanted to care for him. I felt it again when he said that he would never find someone who could love him truly and I saw that he didn`t recognize me as a person. It feels like the universe brought him right in front of my face, built up my courage to finally ask the right questions and see for myself that he wasn`t the right person for me.

I have a feeling it won`t take me as long as my anxiety tells me it will take for me to feel better. I had gotten to a good place right before he contacted me last time from the hospital where I was bittersweet about accepting that he never really care, but I did. I appreciate that I tried my best.

[SinisterComplex]

The moments that made me happy from his trip were when he was present with me, when we cuddled, when we cooked together, when I doted on him by bringing him water or a snack or gave him a massage, when my friend called and he said hi to her and they chatted and we shared what plans we had for the day, when we`d be out and I`d ask if he wanted to sit in the shade for a bit because he seemed to be getting hot. It made me happy to care for him. I can`t deny that I have these feelings for him. Looking back, this is what I wanted from him all along. The anxiety crept in as what I desired was shown to me and then taken away. And it`s okay for him not to share the same objectives as me. That difference itself is reason enough to walk away.

When I read back on how I was feeling before he arrived, I had been ambivalent about his presence in my life. As much as it feels like I was rejected and that he didn`t want me, another perspective is that I finally realized he wasn`t what I wanted either, and I made the decision to walk away. I had a lot of these realizations before. I felt it when his grandmother passed away and I wanted to care for him. I felt it again when he said that he would never find someone who could love him truly and I saw that he didn`t recognize me as a person. It feels like the universe brought him right in front of my face, built up my courage to finally ask the right questions and see for myself that he wasn`t the right person for me.

I have a feeling it won`t take me as long as my anxiety tells me it will take for me to feel better. I had gotten to a good place right before he contacted me last time from the hospital where I was bittersweet about accepting that he never really care, but I did. I appreciate that I tried my best.

Always remember to keep both eyes open and give people a long enough leash that eventually they will reveal their true colors. If it sounds like a duck, it looks like a duck, well my dear then it is a F Duck! 

Moving forward I would say to try to put more emphasis on focusing your mind on the what is with people and try to compare with how you feel towards people. Basically, keep healthy boundaries and don't brush things under the rug. Keep stock of the things that make you go hmmm? Moments.

But you know what? Instead of sounding like a condescending $$  how about we ask you...how do you really feel right now? What does Tina really want? What would you like to do moving forward?

To perhaps shift your mind...tell me a short-term goal for yourself right now. A long-term goal and then a dream you want to make a reality and what steps you are taking to make it happen.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[jaded7]

The moments that made me happy from his trip were when he was present with me, when we cuddled, when we cooked together, when I doted on him by bringing him water or a snack or gave him a massage, when my friend called and he said hi to her and they chatted and we shared what plans we had for the day, when we`d be out and I`d ask if he wanted to sit in the shade for a bit because he seemed to be getting hot. It made me happy to care for him. I can`t deny that I have these feelings for him. Looking back, this is what I wanted from him all along.....

When I read back on how I was feeling before he arrived..........and I saw that he didn`t recognize me as a person...

Tina. No wonder your story and writing so resonates with me. I would find all of these things wonderful too, and did with my ex. I loved the 'coupleness' of us, I loved doing my best to take care of her. I loved when I could make her life a little easier, I loved when I was able to listen to her and give her support. I loved when I could take her to the airport and save her the Uber. On and on.

But like him with you, my ex didn't see ME as a person. MY needs were too much, and by the end, they were minimal to non-existent since I was chastised and snapped at if I expressed any.

MY life was really nearly completely of no concern in our relationship. It was always about her, her needs, her demands.

[tina7868]

Thanks for your replies  . jaded7, it’s nice to know that there are kindred spirits like me!

That’s solid advice, SC, I will be more logical in the future when it comes to who I open my heart to.

<sub>But you know what? Instead of sounding like a condescending Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)$$  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) how about we ask you...how do you really feel right now? What does Tina really want? What would you like to do moving forward

To perhaps shift your mind...tell me a short-term goal for yourself right now. A long-term goal and then a dream you want to make a reality and what steps you are taking to make it happen.</sub>

I can’t…I’m feeling really down today, hollow, I am hurting so much. I know it will pass to an extent, but I also know that I tend to see things in a bittersweet way and that I feel conflicted. I know now how much he was over me, how into his relationship he was, how little he thought of me. But I also know that I loved him to bits. I miss the support role that I had. I feel like I messed up but I know I didn’t. I hope he turns around without me in his life and thinks hmmm throughout all this who was really there for me. But I know he won’t because he is only thinking about himself, and he doesn’t have feelings for me and I am not entirely okay with that to be honest.

These things aside, I guess, what I want, is to focus on my career in my new position. Become good at that. Learn as much as I can. Find a new apartment. Save up for a car. Visit my best friend overseas. Read more. Hike more.

[SinisterComplex]

Thanks for your replies  . jaded7, it’s nice to know that there are kindred spirits like me!

That’s solid advice, SC, I will be more logical in the future when it comes to who I open my heart to.

<sub>But you know what? Instead of sounding like a condescending Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)$$  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) how about we ask you...how do you really feel right now? What does Tina really want? What would you like to do moving forward

To perhaps shift your mind...tell me a short-term goal for yourself right now. A long-term goal and then a dream you want to make a reality and what steps you are taking to make it happen.</sub>

I can’t…I’m feeling really down today, hollow, I am hurting so much. I know it will pass to an extent, but I also know that I tend to see things in a bittersweet way and that I feel conflicted. I know now how much he was over me, how into his relationship he was, how little he thought of me. But I also know that I loved him to bits. I miss the support role that I had. I feel like I messed up but I know I didn’t. I hope he turns around without me in his life and thinks hmmm throughout all this who was really there for me. But I know he won’t because he is only thinking about himself, and he doesn’t have feelings for me and I am not entirely okay with that to be honest.

These things aside, I guess, what I want, is to focus on my career in my new position. Become good at that. Learn as much as I can. Find a new apartment. Save up for a car. Visit my best friend overseas. Read more. Hike more.

There we go my dear...that last little bit there. Let's focus on that. Maybe talk about each of those more here in your thread. Yes I know you are feeling low and hurt...I know and you have to feel those feelings and go through it. Hey I've been here with you for quite a while and I have and the fam here have tried to shield you a bit knowing at some point something like this was necessary and was going to happen. It did have to happen though make no mistake. This was perhaps the only way that will truly help you move on and grow emotionally.

Always remember that YOU matter and your feelings matter though and you do not need anyone else to validate them other than YOURSELF! It is nice to have them validated by others of course, but not necessary.

A new beginning is upon you. A chapter has come to a close. Take the time you need to get yourself back together and then start the new chapter little by little, one foot in front of the other, step by step...okay?

First order of business to that new chapter...tell me or rather us the Fam...What would you like to read more? Favorite author? Favorite genre or style of book or writing? Also, where is your best friend from? Where would you like to travel to and why?

Keep your head up and please be kind to you and most importantly take care of yourself  

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

Hey I've been here with you for quite a while and I have and the fam here have tried to shield you a bit knowing at some point something like this was necessary and was going to happen. It did have to happen though make no mistake. This was perhaps the only way that will truly help you move on and grow emotionally.

I`m still wrapping my head around this. My session with my T today was both helpful and also heartbreaking. It`s back to the drawing board with steps to address thinking patterns and to focus on myself. Today I don`t feel like doing that though. I feel so down and low. I haven`t felt this way in a while. My T mentioned that the `cycle` aspect of the relationship will want to repeat itself, the dynamic being strong even though I tried to do something different. And I already feel the anxiety, the hope pushing me towards a more comfortable place. I feel like I did something wrong. I feel like I want to wait for him to contact me again. Is it that different this time? I unblocked him to try and make things more bearable, only to realize that he has blocked me. I feel so stuck.

It`s too hard to imagine a new chapter right now. I don`t know how to make my way out this time.

[jaded7]

I`m still wrapping my head around this. My session with my T today was both helpful and also heartbreaking. It`s back to the drawing board with steps to address thinking patterns and to focus on myself. Today I don`t feel like doing that though. I feel so down and low. I haven`t felt this way in a while. My T mentioned that the `cycle` aspect of the relationship will want to repeat itself, the dynamic being strong even though I tried to do something different. And I already feel the anxiety, the hope pushing me towards a more comfortable place. I feel like I did something wrong. I feel like I want to wait for him to contact me again. Is it that different this time? I unblocked him to try and make things more bearable, only to realize that he has blocked me. I feel so stuck.

It`s too hard to imagine a new chapter right now. I don`t know how to make my way out this time.

Tina, I myself know and understand where you are. Many of us do. I know the feeling of a Friday night reading the boards. Heck, I'm doing it now!

Just wanted to send you a virtual hug and to remind you and myself of the words above- you matter, your feelings matter, wanting someone to love you is a human experience. We just got caught up in unhealthy dynamics that are confusing and hurtful.

Do you play an instrument? Do you like music? These have been so special to me during my time of healing and learning about myself. I listen to music and admire the dedication and determination that the players had to learn the instrument, master it, and then express themselves through it. It'a a miracle and so healing to share in someone's expression of themselves. And I play my guitar that I bought just after all this happened. I'm teaching myself music theory and it's perfect for getting my mind out of the rumination and instead deeply focused. Plus it gives immediate feedback and I can see myself getting better, which is really nice.

Just sending you thoughts.

[tina7868]

Thanks jaded7. I didn`t even realize that it was Friday! My schedule is all over the place, and I`ve spent the day in bed.

I read back on my posts from late April - before he contacted me the last time - and I feel hopeful. I had reached a peaceful state. I had realized that I still had feelings for him, and I was happy to live with loving him for afar, I didn`t want to get back into anything because I knew I would get hurt. Then he contacted me from the hospital, and I wanted to be there for him, and I buried my feelings...oh well. I made a mistake. Several mistakes.

It`s for the best that things are cut off. I know that. If life wants to bring us together again, then so be it. I`m allowed to hope for it. But my life doesn`t have to stop for it.

I don`t play an instrument, but I do enjoy music! I would love to pick something up soon. That`s so cool that you`ve been teaching yourself guitar!

[jaded7]

Thanks jaded7. I didn`t even realize that it was Friday! My schedule is all over the place, and I`ve spent the day in bed.

I read back on my posts from late April - before he contacted me the last time - and I feel hopeful. I had reached a peaceful state. I had realized that I still had feelings for him, and I was happy to live with loving him for afar, I didn`t want to get back into anything because I knew I would get hurt. Then he contacted me from the hospital, and I wanted to be there for him, and I buried my feelings...oh well. I made a mistake. Several mistakes.

It`s for the best that things are cut off. I know that. If life wants to bring us together again, then so be it. I`m allowed to hope for it. But my life doesn`t have to stop for it.

I don`t play an instrument, but I do enjoy music! I would love to pick something up soon. That`s so cool that you`ve been teaching yourself guitar!

There you have it. A time when you centered and found yourself. It's still there. It never went anywhere, it just got snowed over.

I knew guitar before, but I just played chords by ear for a long time. So my new guitar is an electric one where all I do is try to figure out how the greats could solo all over the neck in different keys and modes. It's astounding.

Pick up an instrument! Even harmonica. Hope you have a good rest of your night.

[tina7868]

It`s truly wonderful how music can create a shared experience! Although I don`t know enough about playing instruments to truly appreciate keys and modes and their true mastery, I certainly feel moved by how it all comes together and captures deeply human experiences.

I wrote about a song called `Love is a selfish thing` before, and I return to listening to it in this moment. The words `you never really cared as I needed, you never really care, but I did` are especially relatable. No wonder I played it over and over again before. That`s exactly what I experienced. And the fact that they are lyrics to a popular song show that the experience, painful and heartbreaking, is a shared one that are part of being human. I find that sweet sadness very pretty indeed.

[seekingtheway]

Hi Tina, I’m really sorry that you’re feeling so low. It’s going to feel pretty crappy for some time, but as you said, you’ve gotten through it before and you will again this time.

Fighting through the anxiety is really hard, I identify with that. Especially when things haven’t been left in a great space. I have really struggled with this with my ex. And as you may know, I repeatedly went back to soothe things and try and least leave things in a better place. Ultimately this never helped. It just opened the door to more misunderstanding, more hurt… and ultimately it doesn’t take the loss or the grief away, which is what has to be faced no matter which way you’d chosen to stop the merry go round. The way you chose was not wrong… it wasn’t your only option but it was what the situation led you to in that moment. Even though it might not feel like it right now, you showed strength.

In terms of the high levels of anxiety you feel and have felt within this dynamic… a lot of that potentially stems from the vast inconsistency… the moments of attention and affection that are thrown in amongst a huge amount of neglect and disrespect. It’s these highs mixed with lows… and never knowing what’s coming next… that keeps you hooked. Like an addiction. Just hoping and waiting for some more of the highs so you don’t have to feel the awful lows. But safe love is consistent… it’s this consistency that allows your nervous system to settle and feel trust. It sounds like you haven’t had that with this guy for a very long time, if ever.

I’ve been exploring this with my therapist recently as it’s clear my ex was massively inconsistent with his love for me… which no doubt is a pattern I’ve already experienced in my childhood… and there’s a lot of grief underneath that… but I had this lightening bolt realisation the other day that although lots of people who are important to me haven’t been consistent, I am consistent… I show up for other people, i don’t flake, I look at my own stuff, and try and show up for myself, and I’m not gonna give up on that… and that means I’m going to be okay.. And you will be too. On the other side of this is peace and more awareness of yourself. I hope the next few days are gentle for you.

[tina7868]

Hi Tina, I’m really sorry that you’re feeling so low. It’s going to feel pretty crappy for some time, but as you said, you’ve gotten through it before and you will again this time.

Fighting through the anxiety is really hard, I identify with that. Especially when things haven’t been left in a great space. I have really struggled with this with my ex. And as you may know, I repeatedly went back to soothe things and try and least leave things in a better place. Ultimately this never helped. It just opened the door to more misunderstanding, more hurt… and ultimately it doesn’t take the loss or the grief away, which is what has to be faced no matter which way you’d chosen to stop the merry go round. The way you chose was not wrong… it wasn’t your only option but it was what the situation led you to in that moment. Even though it might not feel like it right now, you showed strength.

In terms of the high levels of anxiety you feel and have felt within this dynamic… a lot of that potentially stems from the vast inconsistency… the moments of attention and affection that are thrown in amongst a huge amount of neglect and disrespect. It’s these highs mixed with lows… and never knowing what’s coming next… that keeps you hooked. Like an addiction. Just hoping and waiting for some more of the highs so you don’t have to feel the awful lows. But safe love is consistent… it’s this consistency that allows your nervous system to settle and feel trust. It sounds like you haven’t had that with this guy for a very long time, if ever.

I’ve been exploring this with my therapist recently as it’s clear my ex was massively inconsistent with his love for me… which no doubt is a pattern I’ve already experienced in my childhood… and there’s a lot of grief underneath that… but I had this lightening bolt realisation the other day that although lots of people who are important to me haven’t been consistent, I am consistent… I show up for other people, i don’t flake, I look at my own stuff, and try and show up for myself, and I’m not gonna give up on that… and that means I’m going to be okay.. And you will be too. On the other side of this is peace and more awareness of yourself. I hope the next few days are gentle for you.

Thank you for your words, seekingtheway. You bring up a good point with the inconsistency. I also contributed to my situation: I build sandcastles in my head, and kept returning because of this. I needed a dose of reality, and boy did I get it. In that moment when I stood up for myself, I knew that I`d feel crappy for some time afterwards (although it`s easy to say that I didn`t realize it would be this bad), but I had told myself that it was time for me to overcome my fears. He wasn`t listening to my needs, he wasn`t respectful of my personhood, he was using me to fill in gaps between relationships. It wasn`t sustainable in the long run, because I`d keep running into obstacles such as feeling this lack of respect, especially when he would start dating again or return to his ex, and that would hurt me. I owe myself the decision to take action and remove myself from such situations. He was right in saying that my love for him was unconditional (and still is to an extent). I do adore him and see him as a lost person with many struggles and little insight, but that doesn`t mean that I have to remain in the line of fire as his doormat.

I know all that logically. I have experienced inconsistency in childhood. I have a father who would praise me one day, only to disappear and say that I wasn`t his daughter the next. I have come (or so I believed) to terms with how he is. I love him very much, and recognize that he does his best with his limited capabilities, that he himself had a difficult childhood, and that he did express his love in the ways he could. It is sad that he remains unhappy despite being surrounded by people who love him and, despite having achieved financial stability, he still compares himself to others and will always see lack. I watched my mother be by his side all my life despite him calling her horrible names, ignoring her. There was something comforting in a dynamic where the other person can do or say whatever, but at the end of the day you remain together. I know I should want more for myself, that I am not in the same position as my mother (as I thankfully can pay for my own bills due to the education that they provided for me). Yet, again, it felt right and safe.

I am so sensitive to hard endings as well. I didn`t realize to what extent I felt this way until now. It seems like good things about me (my patience, my kindness, my empathy) were the things that my ex resented the most about me.

I know we have touched on this before, and that it is unrealistic to have this hope, but I have it anyways. I hope that I will hear from him, with a renewed intention, after taking his space.

[once removed]

I`m still wrapping my head around this. My session with my T today was both helpful and also heartbreaking. It`s back to the drawing board with steps to address thinking patterns and to focus on myself. Today I don`t feel like doing that though. I feel so down and low. I haven`t felt this way in a while. My T mentioned that the `cycle` aspect of the relationship will want to repeat itself, the dynamic being strong even though I tried to do something different. And I already feel the anxiety, the hope pushing me towards a more comfortable place. I feel like I did something wrong. I feel like I want to wait for him to contact me again. Is it that different this time? I unblocked him to try and make things more bearable, only to realize that he has blocked me. I feel so stuck.

one of the tools you will learn in therapy, presumably, is to delay gratification.

for example, lets say youre on a miserable diet. youre craving ice cream, or steak, or chips, or whatever it is you crave. its on your mind, you cant stop thinking about it, you want it, its killing your motivation and depressing you to tell yourself "no", and it persists anyway. what you do, instead, is you tell yourself "not now, but later", and mean it. amazingly, it works. your body relents, satisfied and looking forward to it. by the time "later" comes, you dont care anymore.

so much about OCD, anxiety, and obsessing, is about learning to sit through (and/or work through) the intensity of feelings. you learn to trust, really trust, that they are temporary, which helps you detach from them some. as a result, that tendency, and that intensity, loses its hold. its about learning to trust in "later".

i did that some after my breakup. all i wanted to hear from anyone is that they were certain my ex would contact me (as if they possibly could). what really helped was someone telling me that i could contact my ex any time i wanted. say whatever i wanted. the option would always be there if i wanted it. but that "right now", really wasnt the best time. it helped with the urgency around what i was feeling. made me feel in control. "later" came, and i didnt want it anymore.

ive never learned to reduce the frequency (ive never been in therapy, but you likely will), but it has helped me learn never to act on it or make it worse.

its also possible that you may be depressed, grieving, any number of things, that will generally take the wind out of your sails, and your mind wander a lot more. what will likely help, and if it doesnt, wont hurt, is just giving things some time to see where your feelings come out. and if something persists, you will tend to see it with more clarity.

youre in such a stronger place now than youve ever been, and with support to get even stronger. i know it feels like an upending, or a regression, but if youre starting from scratch, and rebuilding and reworking those thinking patterns, you are starting off from an inherently higher level, and with great guidance; it will stick.

[tina7868]

you learn to trust, really trust, that they are temporary, which helps you detach from them some. as a result, that tendency, and that intensity, loses its hold. its about learning to trust in "later"

yesterday, when I got back from work, I was tired and feeling increasingly anxious. I called a friend. We talked, and, lo and behold, my anxiety diminished and then went away.

What did we talk about? We laughed because she told me a funny story. I told her about work, which has been both challenging and fun lately. We also laughed at me, and the situation I find myself in. I said that I don`t want to find myself later in life being sad because he blocked my hollogram signal  . She then, lovingly, made fun of me and my pattern. She said that in 2-3 months from now, I will feel an itch and reach out to him, saying that I want to be there for him. To her I will say that I am so happy, that I don`t actually have feelings for him, that he`s so easy and fun to talk to, that this time it`s different. According to her statistics, 75% of the time he responds and we start talking again. The other 25% of the time, I get all mopey and say `I guess this time it`s really different`, then either try again a couple of weeks later or he reaches out to me. Then, as we talk, either he gets mad at me for a weird reason or I start to feel unhappy and say no more.

This has happened at least...3 times in the last year? For some reason, talking about this helps bring light to the situation. Even when I am reassurance-seeking with my mom, and asking her `will I hear from him again?`, she has started replying `probably because both of you are nutbars`  .

its also possible that you may be depressed, grieving, any number of things, that will generally take the wind out of your sails, and your mind wander a lot more. what will likely help, and if it doesnt, wont hurt, is just giving things some time to see where your feelings come out. and if something persists, you will tend to see it with more clarity.

youre in such a stronger place now than youve ever been, and with support to get even stronger. i know it feels like an upending, or a regression, but if youre starting from scratch, and rebuilding and reworking those thinking patterns, you are starting off from an inherently higher level, and with great guidance; it will stick.

I find myself sometimes having a triggering thought and going `oh no I will be sad`. Then, thinking it through and using new perspectives, I eventually feel `actually no`.

Today I`m feeling: he said that he doesn`t have romantic feelings for me, he doesn`t have physical feelings for me, he felt like we weren`t compatible of many levels, and that we wouldn`t be friends if we met each other today. As I list that I sort of laugh - why was he wasting my time?

[tina7868]

I think, as per my own pattern, the mornings are the hardest, as I wake up with a lot of ruminating (what ifs, etc.) and anxiety. I find connecting with a friend, journaling, and making a nice breakfast to be the most helpful lately.

Also, as per my pattern, I read my old journal entries (and posts here), and feel compassion for myself. I can read the efforts that I put into trying to move forward with a lot of pain and sadness. Certain entries make me think `that was a key realization` (like when I accepted who I am and the fact that I love with all my heart, and when I wrote that his grandmother passing away made me realize that I really wanted to be there for him, and that the fact that I couldn`t be entirely was hurting me). I wrote about how I liked things about him, not what he did from me, and this is a big contrast to how I`ve learned he views me. I also see the ways that the ambiguities lead me to remain strung along, ambiguities that have now since been cleared, like that he didn`t keep coming back because he had feelings for me but rather because he felt alone and knew I`d be there. That`s still sad for me to accept.

I also wrote a lot about the hopes and dreams that I had. Then I`d accept that they were only dreams. Writing my desires did help, though. So I`ll try it again. I can`t help but wish that somehow, he`ll recognize my actions as an act of self-love and respect, and come to appreciate the person who I am and the role I can play in his life beyond support. I wish he`d apologize, and want to be with me. Of course, realistically, this makes no sense as it would require him to see past his own perspective, and that wouldn`t be how he is. Accepting him as he is, he`d most likely be mad at me and what I `did to him`, and since he is getting support now from new connections he wouldn`t even feel a sense of loss since that is the only role I truly played in his life.

[once removed]

I wish he`d apologize, and want to be with me. Of course, realistically, this makes no sense as it would require him to see past his own perspective, and that wouldn`t be how he is.

realistically, if someone kicked you out of their apartment, and told you not to contact them again, would you?

it would be an incredibly tall order for anyone. even if they were sorry. even if they thought they were completely in the wrong.

i dont mean to call into question what you did. i mean to say that if you want to talk to him, then talk to him.

and, to be clear, i dont mean to say "talk to him".

there were a lot of reasons i wanted to hear from my ex again. part of it is to do with me - i dont like the finality of formal endings. part of it was because wed known each for 6 years and been together for 3 of them. even to this day i cant understate the impact she had on my life. a lot of it was because of the order of magnitude with which shed behaved so poorly and so hypocritically during the breakup that i almost couldnt stomach that she wouldnt eventually see how she treated me.

looking back, most of it had to do with how badly i felt kicked to the curb.

all that time. all that investment. all the words, from us both, about how no one understood us better than the other. all the urgency of my first adult relationship, and by an order of exponents, my longest.

it hurt my heart that all of that had been diminished. spat upon.

i wanted, more than anything, to know that those things had some cosmic weight. that i mattered. that our relationship mattered. that our time together mattered. that my version of what id experienced made some kind of sense to someone other than me.

I can`t help but wish that somehow, he`ll recognize my actions as an act of self-love and respect, and come to appreciate the person who I am and the role I can play in his life beyond support.

in all of this, you probably spent a lot of time not feeling seen. i cant promise you that the person you most wish would see you, will see you now, or later. i can, however, assure you that people see it. i can encourage you, likewise, to see it. no matter how you feel about it now, or 10 years from now, or 20, you gave your all to a person. i think you can spend a lifetime learning from the experience, but i dont think its one to regret, ultimately.

We also laughed at me, and the situation I find myself in.

She then, lovingly, made fun of me and my pattern. She said that in 2-3 months from now, I will feel an itch and reach out to him, saying that I want to be there for him. To her I will say that I am so happy, that I don`t actually have feelings for him, that he`s so easy and fun to talk to, that this time it`s different. According to her statistics, 75% of the time he responds and we start talking again. The other 25% of the time, I get all mopey and say `I guess this time it`s really different`, then either try again a couple of weeks later or he reaches out to me. Then, as we talk, either he gets mad at me for a weird reason or I start to feel unhappy and say no more.

For some reason, talking about this helps bring light to the situation. Even when I am reassurance-seeking with my mom

there is no better psychology tool, nothing more beneficial youll ever be taught in therapy than being able to take the  out of yourself, and/or to let loved ones do it. nothing will ever make you feel more seen and your problems diminished at the same time.

Today I`m feeling: he said that he doesn`t have romantic feelings for me, he doesn`t have physical feelings for me, he felt like we weren`t compatible of many levels, and that we wouldn`t be friends if we met each other today.

its brutal, yeah 

do you feel differently about him?

[tina7868]

realistically, if someone kicked you out of their apartment, and told you not to contact them again, would you?

it would be an incredibly tall order for anyone. even if they were sorry. even if they thought they were completely in the wrong.

i dont mean to call into question what you did. i mean to say that if you want to talk to him, then talk to him.

I probably would, but I have issues  . I get what you mean, though. Unfortunately, I see that he has blocked me everywhere, which is not surprising, so that option is moot.

in all of this, you probably spent a lot of time not feeling seen. i cant promise you that the person you most wish would see you, will see you now, or later. i can, however, assure you that people see it. i can encourage you, likewise, to see it. no matter how you feel about it now, or 10 years from now, or 20, you gave your all to a person. i think you can spend a lifetime learning from the experience, but i dont think its one to regret, ultimately.

you`re right on both accounts: he didn`t see it, but my friends and family see it. when i read back on my journal entries and posts, i see it. i think i still have lots to learn from this experience (which as i`ve said before can be annoying). i think i get caught up in the details of how and when exactly i said things, but ultimately, a lot of that didn`t even matter and things would come to the same conclusion of me needing to remove myself because i kept getting hurt, because i cared about him and he couldn`t give me what i needed.

there is no better psychology tool, nothing more beneficial youll ever be taught in therapy than being able to take the    out of yourself, and/or to let loved ones do it. nothing will ever make you feel more seen and your problems diminished at the same time.

and there certainly is a lot to laugh at in my case  . i guess because in reality he offered me so little, and i repeat the same motions so often, it all feels predictable and demoralizing.

its brutal, yeah 

do you feel differently about him?

i kept telling him how great he is, and what he deserves, and supporting him. i never told him how  his behaviour was. i hoped that he`d see it somehow. i wonder if i`d been able to tell him these feelings more often if he`d respect me more. i felt, in the moment that i asked him to leave a sense of how is he supposed to come back from all of this. i think that`s the wall that i kept hitting in my own head; if i have to explain this to you, and you are telling me that you don`t care, what am i wasting my energy on?

i loved him, but i couldn`t handle not being authentic with him.

i loved the connection that i felt with him when...when he let me love him. i could and would have done that for him for the rest of our lives if he would have been willing.

[once removed]

I probably would, but I have issues  .

in all fairness, i think lots of us here can relate  

Unfortunately, I see that he has blocked me everywhere, which is not surprising, so that option is moot.

it isnt surprising when a person feels told off. ive done this before; been blocked, and blocked them back. its the equivalent of "you cant fire me, i quit".

hes unblocked you before. thats probably not an obstacle long term. he laid into the relationship. you laid into him. the bridge? it doesnt look good.

i guess im trying to say the guy could come jesus tomorrow, and repairing this would still be hard, even if he came to you first.

i suppose im also trying to say, it probably doesnt have to be the last chapter, if you dont want it to be. it sounds like, there are, right now, competing parts of you. give them time to catch up with each other. seriously, it has been no time at all.

and there certainly is a lot to laugh at in my case   i guess because in reality he offered me so little, and i repeat the same motions so often, it all feels predictable and demoralizing.

i wish two things for you.

the first would be that you know that your feelings are normal and they are ordinary. they arent ordinary, as in dime a dozen, i mean that there isnt anything youre feeling that is somehow wrong or strange or makes you weak or that anyone cant identify with. i promise.

you may feel them more acutely than the average person, though far from every person. that, in and of itself, is neither a good nor a bad thing; just a quality, just a difference between you and a given person like hair color. it can be overwhelming, for sure, but lots of things can be. lots of people need extra help, or a few re-tests, learning how to drive. youre learning now, to face them, to manage them, with help. in other words, as hard as this is, you dont have to feel at the mercy of it anymore.

i kept telling him how great he is, and what he deserves, and supporting him. i never told him how   his behaviour was. i hoped that he`d see it somehow.

if i had to wager, you may kick yourself for this for a while. you might wish that you had, or could, say anything, to take it back even a little. you may have imaginary arguments with him. you probably wouldnt even need to be directly involved; just to know that life sent him that message and he got it. if im even approaching it, i promise you that will disappear. it may even be the last thing to go, but it will.

i wonder if i`d been able to tell him these feelings more often if he`d respect me more. i felt, in the moment that i asked him to leave a sense of how is he supposed to come back from all of this. i think that`s the wall that i kept hitting in my own head; if i have to explain this to you, and you are telling me that you don`t care, what am i wasting my energy on?

what if youd told him those things more often, and he respected you less?

a trap that so many of us fell into was remaining in these relationships long past their expiration date. when the dead end was there, and the writing was on the wall, many of us persisted, dysfunctionally, trying to change the other person.

it is a myth, that we "teach others how to treat us". we cant make others treat us how we want them to, and generally speaking , teaching other people how to behave is either for a profession, or the definition of codependency.

question: if you respected yourself more, how do you think the relationship would have played out?