Custody / guardian ad litem

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

What is helpful respecting family court is to get a sense of family court's "usual" process.  That is, what is the court's usual starting point for temp orders and the divorce process?  Your lawyer ought to be able to describe how things usually proceed.

In our sorts of protracted cases, it's very important that we get the "least bad" temp order.  Our natural inclination to be "super-fair" won't help us, it won't even gain us points with the court.  All we have to do is ensure we aren't nasty, otherwise just focus on what's best for yourself as parent and for your children.

Nearly 20 years ago I separated and divorced.  I lived in a county that defaulted to preference for mothers.  How else can I explain... she was charged with Threat of DV yet a few days later she rushed to family court and filed for possession of our preschooler... and got it for the next two years?  Unimaginable to the average person but my lawyer explained that just because she was not seen as a good spouse didn't mean she wasn't a good mother.  As though she was two people in one?  Also, I had a job and she didn't.

[ForeverDad]

What is helpful respecting family court is to get a sense of family court's "usual" process.  That is, what is the court's usual starting point for temp orders and the divorce process?  Your lawyer ought to be able to describe how things usually proceed.

In our sorts of protracted cases, it's very important that we get the "least bad" temp order.  Our natural inclination to be "super-fair" won't help us, it won't even gain us points with the court.  All we have to do is ensure we aren't nasty, otherwise just focus on what's best for yourself as parent and for your children.

Nearly 20 years ago I separated and divorced.  I lived in a county that defaulted to preference for mothers.  How else can I explain... she was charged with Threat of DV yet a few days later she rushed to family court and filed for possession of our preschooler... and got it for the next two years?  Unimaginable to the average person but my lawyer explained that just because she was not seen as a good spouse didn't mean she wasn't a good mother.  As though she was two people in one?  Also, I had a job and she didn't.

[ParentingThruIt]

Thanks for the reminder to take "least bad" instead of trying to be fair or win points.  He can be very caring towards the kids but has repeatedly demonstrated his thinking isn't rational and he isolates them when he's with them.  It seems that's ok for the current ~10 hours a week but the more time he gets the less I will be able to offset it with play dates, non-screen time, school activities etc. And the higher the likelihood that his current steps towards employment/independent falter.  He's good at appearing ok, reasonable and caring for short periods but for the last decade there's been an increasing pattern of spells of irrational thinking, emotional overwhelm, struggling with day to day tasks, and overwhelm at interpersonal boundaries.  I don't really want to give him a bunch more time and wait for him to do something bad with the kids.

Our judge doesn't usually love guardians ad litem but he seems to be taking the possibility seriously for our case. He expressed the concern that their recommendations need to be actionable. I think his time with the kids will look generally positive (he's engaged and the kids have fun) other than there's a lot of screens and it's generally isolated to his apartment unless the kids have a scheduled team activity during his parenting time etc.  However if they look at his choice to stay out of the workforce for 9 years, his difficulty re-entering it, his financial decisions, a police report from a few years ago about an outburst, and what I've filed in court about his issues in the past year and prior years, I think it will paint a different picture.

I accept that there's some risk he will get the step up plan he wants, and he may be able to handle it well enough to advance up some steps. I dont think hes going to have an easy time holding it together and establishing his own permanent residence etc, but he may pull it off. Either way I want to have documentation in case another significant episode happens in the future, which seems highly likely. He thinks his problems are handled by reduced or eliminated alcohol use and a new med, and there are some improvements over his most acute time in the past year, but he's still struggling and in denial IMO.

[livednlearned]

If you’d be willing to share a couple books, I’d be grateful! I started Raising Resilient Kids w an NPD/BPD spouse already. Thanks again.

I found Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids When a Parent Has BPD/NPD by Bill Eddy really helpful for modeling "flexible thinking, moderate behaviors, and managed emotions." And I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lundbergs, especially the section on about asking validating questions, is how I helped my kid learn to respect his own thoughts and feelings, versus what his dad put in his head.

If you start to see signs of parental alienation, Dr. Craig Childress has some good insights even though he's an academic and his writing reflects that. He has some youtube videos that are pretty accessible. In one of them, he talked about the power of laughter when presented with something absurd that a disordered parent says to a child, who shares that tidbit with you.

Richard Warshak's book Divorce Poison was helpful but we didn't have a severe case so I cherry-picked what was helpful. My son's father did a number on him about lying. Apparently everyone was lying about everything, especially me. I remember coming across something about how to help our kids differentiate between lying, withholding, having secrets, forgetting, etc. and that was helpful. A lot of it I did while we watched shows together or when scenarios presented themselves. My son became pretty discerning and still is to this day.

A disordered parent will have poor boundaries and engage in near chronic triangulation, setting up the normal-range parents up as the bad guy and disordered parent as the victim, putting our kids in the role of rescuers. Probably the most important thing I learned was how to neutralize the drama triangle so my son didn't feel like he was saving his dad. It's hard to do that without understanding what's actually happening.

Ex to S11: "Your mom loves the dog more than us."

Later at our house:

S11 to me: "Dad says you love the dog more than us."
Me to S11: "Ouch. Wow. How did you feel when daddy said that?"
S11 to me: "I don't know...it made me feel sad. I felt angry at you. I didn't like that he said it."
Me to S11: "I feel sad too, I'm glad you felt you could share how you felt with me."

I tried to always stay focused on not defending myself so much as making sure S11 felt emotionally safe and heard. It's not easy but over time S11 came to his own conclusions about what felt good and what didn't.

[ParentingThruIt]

Thank you so much. This is all extremely helpful.

[ParentingThruIt]

One more Q.

So in court we argued, I think in a way that was heard. For a GAL. I’m still waiting for the decision.

This is kind of specific but wonder if anyone has had a case where the BPD didn’t generally direct their worst behaviors (rage/splitting) towards their kids, but had trouble functioning in other areas, like employment and making bigger decisions about the kids. My ex tends to isolate and to isolate the kids with him, and gets overwhelmed by basic social situations. He is not fully employed and hasn’t found permanent housing that he can afford. He would delay / oppose healthcare / mental health care for the kids in ways that was detrimental. I’d you have a conversation with him for more than a few minutes you will likely observe some disordered thinking and possibly some paranoid beliefs. If you observed him with the kids over time you’d notice that he doesn’t take them out much, never does play dates, and avoids many school functions.

But if you only observed an hour or something you might see him being very responsive and attentive, if indulgent, to them.


My biggest worries for his parenting are isolation, difficulty making good decisions on healthcare and extracurriculars due to overwhelm and niche beliefs, and a recurrence of escalated episodes he’s had in the past that got irrational and sometimes physical. He was also abusing alcohol and mixing with anxiety meds and therefore passing out while watching the kids, but denies he’s an alcoholic and doesn’t think he needs an assessment or a program. That behavior could recur but I don’t have any evidence that it’s still happening.

I think the judge has seen enough of him to know something gs wrong but I am not sure how this will translate in an evaluation or custody decision.

Thanks

[ParentingThruIt]

Thanks again everyone.

I got the court to order a GAL but it's a general GAL, not a mental health GAL.

It costs over $10k (for us to split).

I'm nervous that I'll spend this money and it won't affect the outcome.
My goal is to get the kids > 50% of the time (because then they are in a neighborhood, have ties to the community, 2 blocks from school, will have playdates, etc).  When they are with their dad they are isolated.

I think the school and other contacts will say that I've been very involved and transparent and he has been minimally involved, but in the past had a presence.  He will say it's my fault he hasn't been involved bc he didn't have custody and I'm a narcissist etc.  There is a police report and some court documents indicating issues in the past. He's also living in a place that far exceeds his income and doesn't seem to have a plan to figure that out, just keeps going deeper into debt. Doesn't seem to interact with anyone besides work (zoom) and his family (also zoom) and then the kids (lots of VR and iPad and video games, occasional trips to a store or to go fishing).

It seems like I should at least give the GAL a shot but I am just afraid of being screwed.

Will take any deep thoughts.

[ForeverDad]

One factor to make known to the GAL is that before being separated he didn't focus on the kids much, but now you're not there to referee or be his whipping boy (if that fits).  So the risk is that going forward, with the dynamic recently changed then the children would be exposed more to his behaviors, or lack thereof.

A second thought... I did pay child support during my two year divorce while the temp order limited me to alternate weekends and a 3 hour evening in between.  When it all changed with the final decree stating we had equal time, I had expected my CS to be reduced.  It wasn't, it instead rose.  That was a surprise.  So my point here is that your ex may imagine that if he has more time then he'd pay less CS.  Maybe, but maybe not.  That's a question for your lawyer or you can research how your state's CS calculation sheet works.

Does your temp order state which parent is primary parent when considering schools?  When I exited my divorce one of my terms to settle was that I would be the residential parent for school purposes.  Even my lawyer said it was meaningless.  But that status gave my son stability from K-12.

[ParentingThruIt]

Thank you. That’s a good point. He is framing it as he had problems because I am so difficult to live with. But as you note I am not sure how he’s going to regulate himself w/o going off on me all the time. I guess so far he’s done it through isolation and controlling his environment. But if he has to re-engage and handle the basic stressors of having kids etc I am not sure how he will balance it. And he’s still living in a furnished place that requires minimal effort /upmeep (not setting up and maintaining an actual household).

He was attentive to the kids except for the last 6 months. But he wasn’t emotionally regulated.

I actually am the breadwinner so on top of all this will have to pay child support and possibly alimony. I think he wants the kids just because he identifies strongly as a dad and does love them. When they were little, I didn’t like the isolation but it wasn’t quite as big of a deal. Now so much of parenting is helping them / giving them freedom, step by step, to engage with the world. That’s going to be hard for him.

Good point on residence for school district. Currently I think he’s supportive of keeping them where they are but who knows what could change in the future.

[ForeverDad]

My ex worked full time before our child was born.  She quit and was starting to do MLM but not even making minimum wage equivalent at the time.  So the lawyers agreed to impute her with minimum wage.  She had been earning more in her prior job but they considered minimum wage a fair compromise.  Over the years she never did divulge what she was earning and I didn't push it.

And though I didn't pay spousal support during the divorce I did pay alimony after the final decree for a few years.

If your ex is reasonably capable of working, then he ought to be imputed income of what he's capable of doing.  Just because he isn't working - or is working less that he could - is no excuse.  Well, unless he's a documented invalid, I suppose.  (Hey, I'm retired but am financially strapped.  If I can find part time work at my age and health, then most anyone can find employment.)

[ParentingThruIt]

Thank you!  He is employed but it took 6 months from when we separated and he's making about half what he did before he decided to quit and become a stay at home dad. I'm trying to bring these pieces up. I think there's some awareness in court that this is going on at least.

[ParentingThruIt]

Thanks again.

I got the GAL and she's doing home visits with each of us and intakes. My ex gave her a 10 page screed about how I am a narcissist and he couldn't work because of my mental abuse. My home visit is this weekend so I'm going to see how that goes and see if I get any sense of whether it makes sense to respond to what he wrote. Most of it is based on the distant past.  He blames his alcohol / antianxiety med abuse on me as well.

There are some things he wrote that are clearly false or extremely out of context. And it's certainly not a complete piece of documentation.  At the same time, I know there were years when I was very frustrated with him and frankly disappointed that our  marriage didn't work out differently. I tried to engage him on it, asked for joint counseling, etc but he wouldn't beyond intermittently (and later, frequently) raging at me.

Maybe that's my answer but at times it's hard not to question my own reality. I believe his account of his *emotional* experiences is faithful, even if it's not factually accurate. And I'm not a perfect person. I think I was stressful for him to live with. At the same time he didn't really take responsibility for himself. I know I saw extreme reactions and paranoid thinking. But it's also hard not to question whether I am missing the boat somehow.

How have you guys dealt with this yourselves?

[ForeverDad]

I got the GAL and she's doing home visits with each of us and intakes. My ex gave her a 10 page screed about how I am a narcissist and he couldn't work because of my mental abuse. My home visit is this weekend...  He blames his alcohol / antianxiety med abuse on me as well.

The Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting are predictable.  But consider this fact... you've been separated for quite some time, so how is it that he has not improved and still blames you?

Do you see how that perspective may be helpful when you speak with the GAL?  After all, you've recovered reasonably well from the dysfunctional relationship.  You're Moving On with your life.  What improvements overall has he made in his life?  Just a thought I had.

I had the reverse in my divorce.  Well, gender-wise, I also was blamed.  I was the dad and her lawyer was quizzing me in testimony.

Also, let me relate something that happened with me so you won't be caught off guard by trick questions and tripped up by your normal feelings which can easily be used against you.  When my then-separated spouse and I were in court with allegations against each other, her lawyer asked me, "Do you want her back?"  I was aware that he had just asked me my weight compared to hers, alluding that a weight difference ought to make her fearful of me, I knew he was angling to paint me as a controller who wanted his target back under his control.  So I answered, "Not the way she is."

[ParentingThruIt]

Thanks, ForeverDad. He has made some important steps, like he started working for the first time in nine years. But the intensity of his blame towards me and difficulty addressing his problematic behavior in a serious way do stick out. It can be hard for me to "count" everything I've done, it never seems like enough. Sometimes I do fear my role in this. But at the end of the day he defined his parenting duties pretty narrowly and specifically and was extremely inflexible and controlling about anything he wasn't comfortable with, even if it was basic care the kids needed. He's tolerated more of that now that I've been doing it on my own and he doesn't have to have a conversation about it or think about it or do it himself. He's still pretty isolated as far as I can tell and mostly connecting with his family, who he was demonizing in the past 2 years.

I don't really know quite what to make of him. I guess I can just work with the person in front of me. It's a relief that the GAL can come in as a neutral person and make a call.

[ForeverDad]

A lot depends on the experience and approach of the GAL.  I had a GAL who was a lawyer who, based on the published articles, seemed to be representing delinquent juveniles. Despite that concern I had, the GAL did well overall.

I was a bit peeved when I was seeking full custody and majority time.  The GAL said recommendation to the judge would be for me to gain full custody but my ex was to remain with equal time.  Why?  So my ex would have option for child support from me.  I concluded the GAL wanted each parent to feel a win.  That was frustrating to me since it didn't deflate ex's sense of entitlement.

A couple years later (about 8 years in and out of family court) we called in the GAL yet again and GAL was fed up with ex's behavior.  That time I did get majority time too and at last my ex's entitlement deflated.

Back to your case, there's a possibility the court and/or the GAL will try to give each parent a 'win', something to walk away with.  So be aware of this and beware of Gifting too much to your ex, since court or GAL may Gift ex a little too.

[ParentingThruIt]

Thanks so much.  That perspective helps. I’ve tried to present all my concerns. He currently has 1.5 days a week with a one night sleepover every other week so it’s a pretty low baseline.

Child support could be a challenge but I’m trying to cross one bridge at a time.

It’s possible he will get the 50% custody he’s asking for. I think I’m prepared for that to be the outcome but I’m hoping for a cautious step up plan and some tiebreaker suggestions if we disagree on medical care etc.

[try2heal]

Thanks again.

I got the GAL and she's doing home visits with each of us and intakes. My ex gave her a 10 page screed about how I am a narcissist and he couldn't work because of my mental abuse. My home visit is this weekend so I'm going to see how that goes and see if I get any sense of whether it makes sense to respond to what he wrote. Most of it is based on the distant past.  He blames his alcohol / antianxiety med abuse on me as well.

There are some things he wrote that are clearly false or extremely out of context. And it's certainly not a complete piece of documentation.  At the same time, I know there were years when I was very frustrated with him and frankly disappointed that our  marriage didn't work out differently. I tried to engage him on it, asked for joint counseling, etc but he wouldn't beyond intermittently (and later, frequently) raging at me.

Maybe that's my answer but at times it's hard not to question my own reality. I believe his account of his *emotional* experiences is faithful, even if it's not factually accurate. And I'm not a perfect person. I think I was stressful for him to live with. At the same time he didn't really take responsibility for himself. I know I saw extreme reactions and paranoid thinking. But it's also hard not to question whether I am missing the boat somehow.

How have you guys dealt with this yourselves?

First, and you know this, they blame us. Don't absorb it! You aren't perfect, none of us are, but you aren't who he says you are.

One thing pwBPDs seem to do is try to make us act like they want us to. He starts with this screed, which may lead you to walk in being antagonistic to him as a parent. Mud-slinging isn't a great look for either of you. When you meet with the GAL, you can explain what your positives are, what you do for the kids and how you make decisions for them. You can talk about the love you think he was trying to give the kids and the ways he did care for them. But then talk about your concerns as well. The biggest concern for any evaluator (whether we like it or not) is whether the custodial parent can support the children's relationship with the other parent. Being able to talk about the periods of time you feel he can positively parent, the events he might be a positive addition to (extra-curriculars? birthday parties?) and the supports he might need could be useful.

[kells76]

It’s possible he will get the 50% custody he’s asking for. I think I’m prepared for that to be the outcome but I’m hoping for a cautious step up plan and some tiebreaker suggestions if we disagree on medical care etc.

In your state, is all custody (legal & physical) just one thing, or is legal custody distinct from physical custody (aka parenting time)?

Is he asking for 50% legal custody, or 50% parenting time, or both?

In our state, "custody" only means legal decision making. Parenting time is a separate thing. It would be odd, but is theoretically possible for one parent to have "100% custody" (i.e. to be the legal decision tiebreaker) but have less parenting time than the "noncustodial" parent.

What's his "currency" -- does he want to have equal time, have equal decision making, or do you think he even knows what he's actually asking for (besides the fact that it sounds fair)?

[ForeverDad]

It’s possible he will get the 50% custody he’s asking for. I think I’m prepared for that to be the outcome but I’m hoping for a cautious step up plan and some tiebreaker suggestions if we disagree on medical care etc.

To expound on my understanding of kells76's post, some states do default to 50% parenting time if there is no serious basis to deviate to a different ratio.  If you have concerns, then voice them at appropriate times.

One reality with family courts is that they have a large caseload.  They think nothing of scheduling another hearing (a continuance) if the parents haven't reached an agreement.  That just delays the case and neither the judge nor the lawyers are much concerned.  If you have an order that you like, that will be fine with you since the longer you have a decent order, the risks of an upset fade a bit.

What you have to be careful to avoid is thinking that if your ex keeps insisting on 50%, then you are stuck with having to settle (agree) with his demands.  Yes, the court may delay a decision hoping the parents reach an agreement and settle but this does NOT mean you have to agree to a bad agreement simply because ex refuses to budge.  Of course the court could rule against your concerns, but that's on the court.

[ParentingThruIt]

Thanks guys. He already has joint legal custody (decision making) but only like 10% physical custody (parenting time).

I think the GAL is my best route to voice my concerns about him and to get an objective perspective. It does default to 50/50 time otherwise usually. I truly don't know what the outcome will be. I'm bracing for it to be 50/50.

Thanks for the reminder that even if I'm not a perfect being, it doesn't mean that what he's writing about me is true. I THINK the GAL is pretty savvy and what he wrote doesn't suggest a very balanced perspective, to say the least.

It's hard not knowing what the outcome will be or the schedule. I guess I should start thinking about my preferences for schedule.

[ForeverDad]

I was in and out of my family court for some 8 years.  The last time was when I had already gained custody but was again seeking majority time.  So by then the court, GAL and lawyers knew us both.

By then our child was in 5th grade.  This time the teachers appeared and testified.  Two items stood out.  They described how a school sponsored overnight at a local children's camp had started fine on my time (I had full custody and approved the field trip) but ex had shown up there at the regular child exchange time to claim her child.  She made a scene, enough that the teachers were willing to testify.

The second item was his tardy arrivals the school year before.  There were over 20 tardies and all but one or two were on ex's parenting time.

I also testified how she played games with the exchanges, including during the summer.  I specifically remember one was for the start of the Independence Day holiday - no school involved.

In the decision her tardy records were mentioned and I gained majority time but only during the school year.  It was almost like the school impact was more important than my parenting sabotage.

So my thought is that you can mention you have concerns whether ex would parent well enough (since he hadn't done much before) for the children's schooling - and other aspects - not to be negatively impacted.  Would that make a difference to the GAL when time came for recommendations to the court?

Why did it take me 8 years to go from temp order with no custody and alternate weekends to full custody and majority time, a complete reversal?  Partly because court seems reluctant to make huge changes, it typically prefers minimal changes unless something 'actionable' requires more.  Also, at first court presumes the discord is relatively normal parents with mere heightened emotions due to the recent separation and things will calm down once time passes.  I never had my court or professionals investigate mental health possibilities, they dealt with us as we were, studiously ignored what played out before their eyes and didn't try to fix us.