Am I in the twilight zone? I often feel that I am.

[Brosephus]

First post:

I was unaware of BPD until I started googling the things that were happening in my marriage…Why does my wife never say she’s sorry?, why does my wife call me things so hurtful they can never be taken back?, Why does my wife wake me up in the middle of the night to ask me not to leave her?, Why does my wife always interrupt me? Why does my wife feel like she is a victim of essentially everything and everybody?

It was clear after a couple hours of reading that this “may” (I’m not qualified to diagnose anyone with anything) be the issue. At first I was relieved because I thought I may have some answers…that relief shortly turned into profound sadness when I read more and more stories on this condition. I talked with my friend who has been a psych nurse for over 25 years and all she could say is that she was sorry and the outcomes are usually not good. I asked her why and she said that most people committed to a borderline end up losing, not only themselvesgiven the time an emotional toll

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[Brosephus]

I have to add onto original thread because I must have hit the post button.

The nurse friend of mine said that you give up so much emotionally to support that person and so much energy to not personalize the attacks that you become much less of the person you need to be to others…Father, Son, Brother etc. We’ve been together for 15 years and married for 10. The first 6-7 years were amazing but the last 7-8 have been brutal. I would like to say our conversations but it’s arguments that end and she downplays the horrific things she says to me as “that’s not a big deal” or I say that to people all the time”
My internal reply is “Am I in the twilight zone here”…I feel like I’m going mad….Any advice here? She is diagnosed currently with ADHD and depression and is seeking treatment for last 7 years with no real success besides dulling her down with meds…that is until she gets triggered by something. Thanks for any advice

[kells76]

Hello Brosephus and

Like your friend said, these are difficult relationships. BPD is a real and serious mental illness that shows up emotionally and relationally, so if that is part of what's going on, it is deeply impactful on marriages.

It makes sense that while on the one hand, we aren't qualified to diagnose (and the issues in play aren't about "what do I call this"), on the other hand, having a description for the constellation of traits and behaviors can help us find more effective paths forward. The person in my life with BPD is my husband's kids' mom, and while I have never heard of her being diagnosed, I've found that things are "less bad" when I interact with her as if she had BPD.

We’ve been together for 15 years and married for 10. The first 6-7 years were amazing but the last 7-8 have been brutal.

Do you remember anything that happened around the 7 year mark?

I would like to say our conversations but it’s arguments that end and she downplays the horrific things she says to me as “that’s not a big deal” or I say that to people all the time”
My internal reply is “Am I in the twilight zone here”…I feel like I’m going mad….Any advice here?

How do the arguments usually start? How do long do they last?

And before I forget, do the two of you have any kids?

...

One of the phrases you'll see around here is "before we can make things better, we have to stop making things worse". It isn't about blame -- both partners contribute -- it is saying that effectiveness in a BPD relationship is often unintuitive, and the first step in being more effective is changing the things we do control. Taking care of ourselves, reflecting on our values, using those to commit to true boundaries for ourselves, and deepening our empathetic listening and emotional validation are all 100% under our control. Making those changes gives your relationship a better shot at success  

Keep us posted on how things are going;

kells76

[Brosephus]

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. We are both 53 years old.

7 year mark Trump was elected and things went down hill fast…It was topic of rants for months (I did not engage and kept my head down to keep peace)
She would monitor what I read, what channels I watched, and podcasts I would listen to and attempt to shame me if she didn’t approve. This was the point I started losing myself because I would just put my head in the sand and carry on, trying to keep a peaceful house for our kids.

Arguments would start if there was any challenge to the way she thought about something or if I would ask her not to interrupt and talk over me when I was talking. Arguments would last a day or two of me walking on eggshells and would we would usually go back to normal like nothing happened without conversations about the disagreement.  Our kids are grown and out of house now. We are a mixed family with her being widowed and me being divorced. We each had a son, mine was 9 and hers was 5 when we met.

Her father has talked to me about her being very disruptive to the family in her pre-teen and teen years with her going to therapy all those years and also going to summer camp therapy when school got out. Her two younger sisters never had such disruption. She has no friends locally as they start to push her away after about 3 month of meeting them and only has a couple friends from high school many hundreds of miles away.

[ChooseHappiness]

7 year mark Trump was elected and things went down hill fast…It was topic of rants for months (I did not engage and kept my head down to keep peace)
She would monitor what I read, what channels I watched, and podcasts I would listen to and attempt to shame me if she didn’t approve. This was the point I started losing myself because I would just put my head in the sand and carry on, trying to keep a peaceful house for our kids.

There are certainly a lot of BPD flags here -- the constant victim status, the unwillingness to see another's point of view, the lack of long-term friends, etc. That said, nobody can make that diagnosis except for a trained professional. And it's the actions and your interactions that matter more than the diagnosis anyway.

Trump getting elected was the turning point in my relationship with my ex as well, even though I was never a Trump fan. The election sparked her rage and the fire never went out. She developed a hatred for all men, and when she drove everyone else away she turned that hatred on me.

Her monitoring your habits is pretty invasive. I assume it's related to the Trump stuff? It seems like she is looking to challenge your interests that don't align with hers. At some point you will need to establish boundaries for yourself -- or lose all sense of yourself and become fused with her. Which won't make her any happier. It sounds like you've been in caretaker mode for a while, but you can't do that long-term without some significant mental-health costs to yourself.

If you establish clear boundaries, she'll likely test them. But if you're clear on what matters to you, she may pull back and stop challenging you on those things where you are immovable. This may result in some sort of status quo, although it's unlikely to "fix" things if she is truly BPD.

A caution, though: she may redirect her anger to other areas or she may even turn on you more once she realizes you are not mirroring her thoughts on things. I had to establish very firm boundaries in my relationship to survive, and it was establishing those boundaries that ultimately led to the demise of the relationship when both of us realized we were no longer a match for one another. But sometimes you have no choice. You can't light yourself on fire forever to keep someone else warm and all that.

Sounds like a tricky situation. Have compassion for her and for yourself. I hope you find a path to some peace.

[Brosephus]

Thanks for your reply.

I wasn’t a Trump fan either but in her mind I was to be 100% on board with her ideology or I was the enemy.
The turning point for me was 4 months ago when my younger brother (50) was over with my mom (76) and wife baited my brother into an pro-life
/pro-choice conversation that ended in screaming and my brother walking out. This episode, and since my kids are out of the house now it was time to set some hard boundaries. Since setting boundaries and trying to keep her accountable for the horrific things she says to me our arguments have become 10X worse. I’m not folding in because I just can’t live like this anymore..I need to have peace in my house.
We literally have not been able to communicate on any constructive level in months. Whenever we talk it’s “you always do this” or “you never do that”. We are both mid 50s and it feels like I’m on a playground somewhere trying constructively to talk with a spoiled child.

[ChooseHappiness]

Since setting boundaries and trying to keep her accountable for the horrific things she says to me our arguments have become 10X worse. I’m not folding in because I just can’t live like this anymore..I need to have peace in my house.
We literally have not been able to communicate on any constructive level in months. Whenever we talk it’s “you always do this” or “you never do that”. We are both mid 50s and it feels like I’m on a playground somewhere trying constructively to talk with a spoiled child.

Are you able to set boundaries without getting into arguments with her? When my ex was splitting, I found any attempt to state my position turned into her raging at me in really incomprehensible ways that were completely disassociated from reality. I realized that while I was attempting to communicate, she was using the conversation as an excuse to explode and blame me for everything wrong in her life.

I've read in various books and comment threads in the boards here that it can be very difficult to engage in meaningful conversation with someone with BPD when they are upset because they are not approaching the conversation from a point of rational discourse but are instead trying to unload the chaos within them on to another person. I don't pretend to understand how it works, but it certainly rang true in my case.

I found things improved when I basically went no contact with my ex while living together (but divorcing). I just started ignoring her comments and didn't rise to the bait. If she was being abusive enough, I just politely asked her to leave me alone. So I established my boundaries of what was acceptable and what wasn't, but I didn't get into arguments because I knew there was no point. After a few months of this, she more or less left me alone because she realized there was no point to attacking me as she wouldn't get the release she was seeking. I had to repeat the same thing on text messages and emails, so it took a while. But she doesn't really explode on me anymore.

Going no contact is obviously not practical when you are still trying to save a relationship. But perhaps you can find some way of making it clear you are not going to engage with her when she's looking for a fight. This will take discipline and restraint on your part, but it may be worth the effort in the long run.

[BunnyFace29]

You're not alone! My husband is the pwBPD in my relationship, and the Trump election was also a turning point for us. This also coincided with him dumping me, joining the Marine Corps, then getting back together with me (of course, all well before I knew a single thing about BPD or how it looked for men vs the impacts on women).

For us, it was the opposite. I was raised the child of theatre faculty, fairly liberal/left, and the more time he spent in the military he went from left-leaning moderate, more Democrat to solidly Republican, arguing with me about "those blue-haired f***s" and how "you haven't seen what the f*** I've seen". True, I'm not an infantry member - but I also don't punch holes into walls because my wife added the taco seasoning to the beef too late into the cooking process and "ruined dinner" and then sobbed on the bathroom for 40 minutes because I'm a broken man and don't know what's wrong with me before making the claim that these liberal children are too emotional to understand right from wrong. But I digress.

It seems to be a common theme, picking sides during times of political disturbance - that or falling into some sort of religious extremism, whether it be becoming deeply Christian or identifying with witchcraft or being a staunch atheist. Likely part of the black and white thinking?

You're not alone. It's a tough road. But it's one you've already been walking! From what I understand, BPD ebbs and flows. It's symptoms worsen during times of interpersonal stress and hardship (i.e. parenting and family change, financial stress, life stressors like COVID), hormonal changes like menopause, and physiological stressors like not eating right or sleeping well. Going to therapy helps, but you can't tell a pwBPD they have it and to just go get help. You have to coax them into thinking getting help was their idea essentially. You have to rationalize that you can only control your own responses and understand that the calmer you can be, the easier this will be on yourself. And stop waiting for the moment when they suddenly get better. It may happen. They'll come back and be loving. But don't wait for it. Much like caring for a feral cat, the less you expect from them and the more security you exude, the more affection and calm you'll get. You'll still be bitten. But you'll see the bites coming. If that makes sense.