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Question: As a one who read the book, how do you rate this book?
Excellent - 67 (40.4%)
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Author Topic: 15. Understanding the Borderline Mother - Christine Ann Lawson PhD  (Read 24368 times)
ElvisLives

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« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2014, 09:29:32 PM »

I'm glad I read it.

I feel validation for the first time in my life.

And it's the reason I'm here.

Thanks Ms Lawson!   
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« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2014, 11:20:22 AM »

I found it in my university's library - spent the whole afternoon reading this book and it was great!

For those who cant afford it - try your local library or university, they might have it there for you to borrow it/ read it on location.
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« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2014, 04:41:48 AM »

i'm glad i entered in this thread, i will try to read this. thank you for sharing it.
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« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2014, 04:53:22 AM »

Ive not read this yet but will definately get it as I have 3 children with 2:uBPDex's. I can totally relate to the waif claiming the children did things as my ex wife did this.

Just curious on the queen behaviiur as my exgf fits this. I have seen her rages at the kids but mostly she is over protective of them and fears offending them.
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« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2014, 12:47:23 PM »

I'm afraid I'm seeing waif behaviour in my sister, who is now mother of 2.  I suppose it's normal, as our mother is uBPD queen... .It's hard for me to think that something is wrong with someone, when they can act totally normal one day, and totally crazy the next, then back to normal... .but this is my sister now. I constantly question myself because she loves to put the blame on others for her craziness. Oh my. 
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« Reply #65 on: January 02, 2016, 09:23:59 PM »

So much to my confusion, in the chapter on make-believe children in the section on splitting, the author says
Excerpt
Linehan (1993a) believes that borderlines should not be viewed as different

then she quotes Lineman then she goes on to say
Excerpt
Bordrlines sense that they are different and deserve validation of their suffering



Lawson, Christine Ann. Understanding the Borderline Mother. p. 159

Marsha Linehan is an amazing, remarkable woman. She developed DBT to treat herself. She had BPD. Now I don't know Ms. Lawson's professional background but she seems to be casting aspersion on the work of Dr. Lineman.

I'm sure someone will set me straight.

Or maybe not, after all I am the one who came up with the borderline dragging the non down the hall like a child drags a comfort object.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Turkish
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« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2016, 12:55:09 AM »

p. 124, Nook e-book.

Linehan is coming from a BPD perspective; Lawson, as a T who treats non-BPDs...

Value can be taken from both insights.
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unicorn2014
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« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2016, 02:40:52 AM »

p. 124, Nook e-book.

Linehan is coming from a BPD perspective; Lawson, as a T who treats non-BPDs...

Value can be taken from both insights.

Hmm, interesting... .I don't know if I would want Lawson for my T, however I am reading her book, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt from now on.

Let me clarify, Dr. Lineman is coming from the perspective of someone who treated herself for BPD and was able to pass that treatment method on to others.
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« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2016, 07:53:30 AM »

I don't see it as a huge deal... as Turkish said, they're looking at it from different perspectives and both may have biases. In any profession, it's possible that two capable clinicians could have differing opinions and neither is wrong or right.
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« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2016, 08:23:43 AM »

Linehan (and a person with BPD):  People should not treat borderlines as if they are "different" humans - don't make them out to be freaks and ostracize them.

Lawson (and a person with BPD mom):  People should not tell a child that the way they were treated by their parent was "normal" (she says this in the context of splitting).

Both points make sense to me.   Being cool (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2016, 12:50:10 PM »

Linehan (and a person with BPD):  People should not treat borderlines as if they are "different" humans - don't make them out to be freaks and ostracize them.

Lawson (and a person with BPD mom):  People should not tell a child that the way they were treated by their parent was "normal" (she says this in the context of splitting).

Both points make sense to me.   Being cool (click to insert in post)

Yes both quotes make sense to me too. I'm reading about the all bad child. I think I became that as an adolescent although my mother thinks the "adventures" I went on were "neat". She had no idea what I was doing... .
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« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2016, 03:36:12 AM »

I think this is a good book even if the person in your life with BPD is not ones mother. Definitely found the book helpful and to be an informative read and worth what i spent on it (although i dont know if everyone will agree or not but its all good and i bought the book in like new condition). I've read the book all way threw at least a few times. I'd recommend the book (to most) and its one my favs to read on BPD. The book I do agree does use a few words or terms that some (myself included) may not be familiar with but I personally like with any book just looked those words up. I'd give the book 4.7 out of 5 stars Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2017, 02:56:52 PM »

No book has ever made me cry as much as this one.
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« Reply #73 on: January 01, 2018, 08:40:03 AM »

Fantastic content.  Smiling (click to insert in post) I found the ideas sometimes intense and difficult to read. I still use this for reference from time to time.



One review described this as a highly accurate portrayal of her family's dynamics--another review claimed she had to administer heavy doses of self-care while reading it.

I didn't think it was very applicable to my experience with a upwBPD romantic partner--but it appeared to be both very useful and well reviewed by both participants here and the general public. Post-reading, I found it contained a lot of practical insights for me despite the pwBPDSO in my life being a romantic partner.



"They will also find specific suggestions for creating healthier relationships." I think this statement is true.

This book is packed with great takeaways. Examples:
- discussions about factors that create unconscious and excessive altruism in people
- being aware of the traits of males that are in relationships with BP females
- being aware on the effects of a BP female on children
- being aware of workaholic fathers and how the relationship is may benefit both parties
- the implicit application of how to handle (and not handle) discussions with people with BP traits (not only BPDM's)
- discussions about consequences, and the support implied for the non wanting to support their own boundaries

I appreciated the way Lawson put in fairytale characters to make representations:
Excerpt
The Good Witch laughs and says to the Wicked Witch, "Be gone... .you have no power here!" The Good Witch has confidence in her goodness and power. She is not afraid, she believes in herself. Adult children have this power, but like Dorothy with the ruby slippers, they do not know how to use it.

I do think that being a part of this community is a lot of about not penalising oneself for behaving in a way that one didn't know was unhealthy in a given relationship. This book is a great way to find out about those things that we often "wish we had known". An example of what you can find in this book:
Excerpt
Many adult children who enter therapy report [... .] having to catch up on something they missed learning. In these dreams, they report feeling angry, resentful, and embarrassed that no one had given them proper instructions or clearly explained the assignment. They unconsciously know that they missed a developmental step [... .]



If you find the book's situations apply to your own, then I'd also recommend a healthy sense of individuation and self-compassion to accompany this reading. Also, I'd consider supplementing the first reading with time aside for therapeutic support.
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« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2018, 10:10:28 AM »

Hey all,

So I’m referencing the book Understanding The BPD Mother by Lawson when I talk about “subtypes”.

I read the book in 2011 and back then we had 2 children under 3 yrs of age. My BPDw was quite hermit-like and a lot of witch. Fast forward to 2018, we have D10, S7, D5 and I’m rereading the book. It’s amazing but my stbex BPDw is extremely the queen and a lot witch mixed in there.

Obviously these subtypes by Lawson are an attempt to bundle characteristics that can’t really be bundled. We are all unique in our attributes and in our illnesses. But I’m quite blown away by the extreme swing in characters by my stbex BPDw. It is truly shocking.

The queen in her really came out about 4 yrs ago when our youngest was 1 yr old. And boy did it come out with a fury! Stbex BPDw is an artist and up until 4 yrs ago she would hide in her studio. Secretive and wouldn’t share her art with anyone. Then she decided to go at it professionally or as she stated “she wanted to become a famous artist”... .and BAM!

Anyone else observed a drastic change in character with time?

Happy holidays to all!
LAT
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« Reply #75 on: December 21, 2018, 10:48:46 AM »

Hi, LightAfterTunnel.   Welcome new member (click to insert in post)  Interesting question.  For those of us who have yet to read about the Waif, Hermit, Queen and Witch archetypes, here's a summary:

Excerpt
The Queen is controlling, the Witch is sadistic, the Hermit is fearful, and the Waif is helpless.  Each requires a different approach. Don't let the Queen get the upper hand; be wary even of accepting gifts because it engenders expectations. Don't internalize the Hermit's fears or become limited by them. Don't allow yourself to be alone with the Witch; maintain distance for your own emotional and physical safety. And with the Waif, don't get pulled into her crises and sense of victimization; "pay attention to your own tendencies to want to rescue her, which just feeds the dynamic.

Would you like to say more about how the shift you saw in your wife played out in your relationship?  How did you feel as her partner going through it?  How do you feel now looking back at what happened?



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« Reply #76 on: December 21, 2018, 11:59:49 AM »

Hi Insom,

Thanks for posting the summary... .I definitely didn’t want to exclude others from participating.

Well, in the beginning I felt my BPDw was very insular and her art was her way of communicating with the world. I knew of her very rough upbringing and so I figured this was her way of dealing with the demons so to say. Her secretiveness I never understood and I was hurt by it. She was always extremely controlling of me and the kids. She suffocated our D10 when she was young. D10 has major anxiety issues now and reacts strongly to anyone who crowds her space our her stuff. Overall I think you can say that BPDw’s fears ruled her actions and this is part of the hermit subtype as described by Lawson.

Then slowly she started sharing her artwork and you could see that BPDw got a taste of enjoyment from the positive feedback. I was happ for her but deep down I knew that there wasn’t any recognition in the world that would satisfy her. During the next years BPDw started buying nicer clothes, working out obsessively, going out dancing and out with friends often, started ignoring the kids more than before... .before she could be explosive and unpredictable but she did do activities with them... .now she feigned interest at most. Things really snowballed to the point where I have felt she just doesn’t want to be a mother anymore. She’s 100% focused on her art and the attention she gets from it. Again Lawson is correct that BPDw’s emptiness is driving her now.

As a partner, it’s been impossible and truly self sacrificing... .but it’s also been the diving board from which I sprung into my own issues and understanding myself. The hardest part was watching my children and their continual disappointment with BPDw, conflicts in teaching them, and trying to compensate and support them throughout.

Man... .if I only knew then what I know now... .HA! I don’t regret anything. I gave it my best at every moment. I love my children and I wouldn’t have S7 and D5 if I knew then what I know now because I would have put firm safe boundaries from the beginning. I put my foot down on her anger and outbursts at the children when D10 was 4 yrs old but I wish I did it earlier... .until then I was still wrapped up in it all.

I think that BPDw is a person full of fears and emptiness and probably always will be. I am not sure on why fears ruled her for the first 5-6 years but now we’re all suffering the wrath of the queen for 4 years and counting. The only constant has been her wickedness throughout.

LAT
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« Reply #77 on: December 21, 2018, 10:33:05 PM »

One takeaway I got from that book is that the four types could exist with each other,  with one dominating depending upon that circumstances. 

My mother is the Hermit-Waif (she doesn't have a narcissistic bone in her body). My ex is the Hermit-Waif-Queen. 

I remember one time in the car less than a year before our dissolution when then D3 said "mommy's a princess!" She responded,  "no,  mommy's a Queeen!" I rolled my eyes to myself.  That's not a good thing.

The core feelings of a pwBPD is that they are worthless, unlovable and don't matter. Masterson describes a pwBPD as a "deflated false self" (a person with NPD is an "inflated false self"). What's in common is an unstable identity (sense of Self), and the unhealthy coping mechanisms stem from these core feelings. 

My ex describes herself on social media as a "game changer" unabashedly. If only people knew the pain and drama she caused me, our kids,  and her current husband... .

I'm with you in retrospect. I wouldn't have S8, almost 9, and D6.5 if I'd known.  D6 had tears in her eyes this morning when she was realizing her mom had her for over a week during Christmas and she wouldn't see me (I'll have them the first week of January until they go back to school).

That's unconditional love,  which is both validating and heartbreaking.

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« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2019, 07:46:38 AM »

YouTube audiobook Resource (sharing)…

Link ~>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-Ai6ujUDX0&list=PL94j5ECCzW1frzUVZtYclBrzjOv7OpujU&index=1&spfreload=10

Title, - Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship 

By: Christine Ann Lawson

Kind Regards, Red5
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« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2019, 03:56:57 PM »

This is an excellent book for understanding the different behaviors associated with BPD.  It also takes a look at the role of the non-father.  It has been very helpful to many of us on the PSI (Parent Sibling and In-law) board here.

It is a good book for anyone, but especially for those non parents raising a child with a pwBPD.
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