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Author Topic: Estranged from high functioning daughter  (Read 1731 times)
christabel1956
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« on: August 07, 2007, 06:00:56 AM »

Hello to all who read and offer support,

I have been on the BPD rollercoaster since my daughter turned 16.  Her version of reality became so distorted.  I, apparantly, never loved her or supported her.We began to have terrifying daily interactions.  Constant no win situations.  The myraid of counselors that could not quite put there finger on it.

I found "Stop Walking on Eggshells" a year and a half ago.  I broke down at the computer and cried for several hours.  What validation to finally know that I was not alone.  Well intended friends were eager to give advice, but they just did not get it.  "Just sit down and talk to her."  "You're her mother!"  and so forth and so on.

When my daughter was home for spring break during her first year in college we finally broke into pieces.  Years prior, she had begun a father worship and idealization beyond reason.  Her dad had all but abandoned her after our divorce so he could spend more time rock climbing than he did when he lived with us.  It was horrific for me and my second husband to co-parent with somebody so utterly self centered. 

That fateful spring evening found me 2 inches from my daughters face screaming for her to get out.  Her venemous spew and razor sharp words found me engulfed in rage and confusion.  I swear to you for a brief second she smiled.  It was a self fulfilled prophecy.  She had finally broken me.  My abandonment of her was finally true.  It remains one of the most gut wrenching experiences of my life.

That night I called her dad and said, "Congratulations, it's a girl."  He did take her in, but it has been 3 more years of hell.  Unfortunately, his narcissism has found him using this time to play my daughter to suit his purpose.  He was not an ally like I had prayed for, and her need for chaos is fed.  It is an unbelievably sick situation.  Her college graduation found me isolated and feeling like the parent who HAD left.  My ex-husband acted as if he had raised her since birth, and she treated him as such. 

My daughter is now 22 and leaving for Africa with the Peace Corp for 2.5 years.  I have not seen or spoken to her since graduation in May.  She is living 20 minutes away with her dad and working at a restaurant in our town.  People are constantly telling me about seeing her and what a lovely young woman she is.  How proud I must be.  I take to out of body experiences.  My mind can't absorb how she can compeltely cut the only person out of her life that was there no matter what.   

All of our interactions over the past 3 years always go back to the night I "threw her out".  Even though I sucuumbed to the humiliation of calling her dad for help... .her version remains, "He took me in when I had no place left to go."  Unfortunaltely, my ex feeds the fire of her BPD and exaserbates all the chaos and instability.  The all or nothing is absolute. 

I have written to her 4 times over the summer.  My cards go unanswered.  I live the paradox that I'm desperate to see her, but can't wait till she leaves.  What will it be like to have her gone for 2.5 years?  Peaceful or gut wrenching? 

Thanx for reading,

Christabel
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lasagna
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2007, 08:19:07 AM »

One plus of the 2.5 years away from U.S.,  you will change. your life will calm down.You will accept that she is not the child you raised. You will see her as a mentally ill person who causes destrucion, but then walks away from it.  On these new terms, you will expect less.You will grieve for what is not meant to be.     You might cherish the fact that she is doing well in the Peace Corp (if she is). She'll never acknowledge it, but you and your husband deserve the credit for raising a child who wants to do something meaningful with her life. You will start to enjoy your own lives, as you should.  The pain subsides for long periods. There will be times when she stirs up trouble, but now you will know life with peace. And you'll get back to that peace quicker after her "thunderstorms."

I only offer this advice because it happened to me. Good luck to you. I totally emphasize with your situation. She probably won't change, but you will change yourself.   It's a natural process and it took me about 2 years.

I totally understand why you screamed at her that day. I did it too, but my voice was being taped on VM (really stupid of me but I just wasn't in my right mind)     I sounded like a monster and it was played all over town. VEry tough time in my life. I was beating myself up for her provoking me.   I am not a screamer at all, usually. But that day I was Mommie Dearest.      Time heals wounds.   I'm not painting a rosey picture here, I just know that I started getting involved in a more validating environment.      this may not relate to your situation at all, but I thought I'd offer it nonetheless.
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Grace
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2007, 04:25:25 PM »

I think eventually you will find some peace Christabel - my DD is still living with me but I long for the day she can support herself and go off and live her own life (safely).  You might actually have a little time for yourself again if you aren't constantly worrying about your daughter.  I have heard that out of sight, out of mind works - but I don't know about that.  We are moms, we worry, and we never stop.  I am sorry that your DD has cut you out of her life so completely and I can understand your hurt.

I have had those screaming matches, the ones you can never win, when you hope one word of advice actually gets through to her.  And I remember those little smirks when my DD knew she had gotten into my head.  Sometimes she even laughed at me as I was crying.  My DD pushed me to the brink, believe me.  I am not proud of losing it with her but boy does she know how to push my buttons. I finally learned that I couldn't have a discussion with her.  When she rages at me now I walk away.  Her dad is much cooler than I and I let him handle all the "talks" now - not that any amount of talking helps when she just won't listen.  My DD is not my sweet little girl anymore no matter how much I miss her and want her to be. Even with the chaos she causes I don't know how I would feel if I were you, her leaving to go so far away for such a long time.  I am sure you have such mixed emotions. 

Take care,

Grace
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christabel1956
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2007, 05:15:42 PM »

My dear Grace and Lasagna,

I broke down and wept when I read your posts to me.  For through your eyes, I see myself.  And therefore, recognition and acknowledgement.  Thus comes the bitter sweet notion that I am not alone.

A quick over view of raising my other children is my oldest daughter and young son are horrified to provoke anger or disappointment from me.  I have never raised a hand or my voice to them.  It only took a certain look, and there would be instant remorse. 

To the contrary, my beautiful baby girl, that held me as if her very life depended on it, grew into a woman that wanted to crush me, and relentlessly.   She would constantly and consistently bring me to my knees with ugly words until I begged for mercy.  Then she would stand and smirk, "Look at you.  You are ridiculous."  I swear there were times in her sleep that I looked for the "666" tatooed on her body.  It appeared that I had spawned the demon seed. 

I am re-reading Eggshells.  There is actually a chapter dedicated to the 5 stages of grief and how badly we cherish our memories of the time when our borderline loved us unconditionally.  So, thank you, I am getting back in touch with those emotions.  I realize that my baby girl does not exist anymore and never will again. 

I was raised by a borderline mother.  Hence I am all too familiar with this behavior.  I will admittedly confess that it is my truest horror to be reliving my childhood through raising my own daughter.  My mother was also quick with her venom, and often spoke to me with a razor sharp tongue.  Again, the scenario of bringing me to my knees.  It took me years to find my power and self esteem.  I am fighting for it again... .and I will perservere.  I was blessed with a strong soul and the will to overcome.

I can't tell you how wonderful it is to have found you, Grace and Lasagna.  The pain of isolation.  The feeling that your friends think it's all so fixable (i.e. just sitting down and talking honestly). 

I am sorry that we have all found our place as a "mommy dearest", but that was then and this is now.  No beating ourselves up!  These daughters are proficient with hitting triggers.  I'm quoting now from Eggshells: You can trigger borderline behavior quite easily.  That doesn't mean, however, that you caused the behavior.  Words to live by when drowning in a sea of guilt. 

I am particularly grateful to be in touch with 2 women who get that my daughter's 2.5 years in Africa will actually be a vacation.  I recently admitted to my therapist that I don't want to see her before she leaves, and I can't wait till she's gone.  Sad but true.  I am secretly smiling on the inside when I think of her taking a dump in a dirt hole with no toilet paper and no place to wash.  Everything my husband and I did for her was all short of the mark.  Crappy car, crappy TV, stupid bedroom, horrified that we didn't have cable or high speed internet, would leave the house in filth and be pissed at us for not cleaning up after her. You name it, it was all an insult.

Thank you thank you thank you beautiful women for baring your souls and your experiences to aide in my recovery.  Bless you both.

Christabel



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Ramona

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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2007, 06:04:17 PM »

I am fairly new here and trying to read back rather than continually starting new threads.  As I have said before, my adult BPD's daughter's behavior has become very alarming since July 4 -- and everyone time I talk to her I feel like I have been kicked in the stomach.  Reading the posts on this thread has made me not feel so alone, ladies!  Thank you.

There are some situational crises that I must deal with immediately, but first I want to say that it has finally occurred to me today that I can no longer pretend that my

BPD daughter, my only child, loves me.  My daughter is 37 and, along with serious problems with alcohol, has exhibit BPD symptoms for literally 22 years -- and I have been in denial for that long. 

I have been reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" over and over again for a month, and have started reading old posts on this thread.   You other parents are my only lifeline for now and I am grateful.

Ramona
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lasagna
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2007, 07:56:26 PM »

Ramona, your daughter is unable to love you.

thinking that way helps me. And it is the truth. They never asked to have this illness.
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christabel1956
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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2007, 06:04:55 AM »

To Ramona and all,

It has just been within the last few days that I am grasping this concept of "death", in regard to my high functioning daughter.  As a mom I carry an almost eternal optimism that something or someone holds a magic key.  A terrifying and life altering moment to realize the key does not exist.

Well meaning friends assured me that my daughter's college years would find her some depth and growth.  Well intentioned friends are now saying that the 2 years in the Peace Corp, especially in Africa, will find her a new person when she returns.  We all know that ain't gonna happen.  She will return humbled by her experience, but in a BPD way.  High functioners can really put on the glam when necessary.  Artistic paintings of the world outside leaving passer's by duped by the pretty colors that cover the blackness.

A strange concept to think of our children not really loving us.  And if it is a love, what a distorted horrible version.  A peaceful encounter for them always leaves us in chaos and despair. 

So, as moms we struggle to find the peace we are desperate for.  Most of the time that means minimal interaction with the child we once held so dear.  Open arms fall dead to our waists.  Mundane and superficial jabbering becomes paramount to successful encounters.  Taboo subjects: Emotion. 

Have a Peaceful Day, my commerades,

Christabel

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lasagna
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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2007, 09:05:45 AM »

I'm glad you guys are keeping this thread going. You are my group ego. I'm relatively new to this virtual world, but I do trust you ladies in a way that is not possible with other moms. You validate my perceptions.

I have a terrible migraine today. No wonder, BPDd's visit was hurtful and avoidant of us. So I put my feelings on hold and acted like I was in some trance state. I could hardly keep up with the barrage of assaults aimed at us. (Not physical, but emotional)But I went on auto-pilot, and kept functioning in the world.

I think she'd be happier if she had actually had abusive, drug-dependent, selfish parents who whipped her regularly. then she wouldn't have to pretend so much.

I don't know what I'm saying because I took medicine for the migraine. My body finally caved in to the stress. and, thankfully, she is back in her home state.  Her treatment of me really hurt. Only you ladies understand that. And I don't foresee any change. But I haven't totally given up all hope. Call me naive, but I believe that one day she will improve. she's young. there may be new neuroscience out there that will help her. Maybe ten, twenty years from now.  My brother is a neuropsychiatrist in academia. He's her godfather, he gets furious at her, but he knows it's organic and might be amenable to change someday.
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Grace
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2007, 04:55:34 PM »

Hi Ladies,

I am so grateful for all of your posts.  It is such a relief to find some compassion and understanding here.  I read all of your posts and cry along with you, believe me.  I cry because I can feel your hurt and pain and grief as if it were my own.  Thank you all so much for sharing.   I take so much comfort in knowing that there are others that understand exactly how I feel-I am tired of crying alone. 

Lasagne, I hope you are feeling better.  Now that the visit from your DD is over, maybe the stress will ease up a bit.  I, too, pray for some sort of cure for this horrible illness.  I think we have to be optimists - what else do we have? Someone else in another thread had talked about this being the worst type of illness.  If our DDs had some apparent physical disability we would have all kinds of support and understanding.  To others, though, our DDs seem like perfectly fine young women.  We are the ones closest to them and we take the brunt of all the rage inside of them - and no one else sees this... .

Christabel, I am so glad you posted again and let us know how much our posts meant to you.  To have comforted someone else in some small way brings me comfort as well.  Your post truly brought tears to my eyes. Believe me, I get as much from your posts and Ramona's and Lasagne's. 

I try not to think about my DD not being able to love me - although I don't think she is capable of it anymore.  Her mind is in just too much turmoil.  A few years ago, when I first started to really realize that something was dreadfully wrong, she told me that she and I never had a good mother-daughter relationship.  Talk about feeling as if I were punched in the stomach and speared in the heart at the same time.  She is my only daughter - I have 3 sons as well - and we did SO much together.  And I have always supported her and been there for her throughout her childhood and adoloscence and I am still here.  How could her reality be so distorted?  Like Lasagne said, maybe she would have been happier to have horrible, abusive parents rather than ones that always supported and cared for her.  I know that at one time she told people that we made her work and took all her money away from her to help support our household.  Where does this thinking come from?

One side note, do your DDs also lie to you?  I mean, constantly lie - about everything - so that you never know what is true and what isn't?  My DD told me that she "tells me what I want to hear".  So in other words, everything HAS to be a lie.  The really sad thing though is that she believes her own lies.  She lives in some totally different world than the rest of us.  How will she ever survive?

Take care my friends,

Grace
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Mikki
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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2007, 09:56:05 PM »

I really relate to what all of you are saying. So, so much.

However, the last fifteen months have been really good as far as my daughter is concerened. More than I could ever have hoped for. And, I just hope and pray things don't get back to how bad they once were. The memories are still fresh and numerous. I can really understand what you are all going through. I wish there was something that I could do to help all of you. The pain and grief is enormous and I just hate to see such wonderful moms having to endure it. 

You are right, well meaning friends just don't realize that we aren't talking about a normal situation. Normal parenting techniques don't work here and in my daughter's case probably made things worse.

Regarding adult BPD kids: It helps to detach and not have high expectations. It helps to validate their feelings. It helps to stick to your own boundaries. It helps to have them living on their own (and preferably not too close by), making thier own decisions and letting them deal with the natural consequences of their actions. It helps to accept the fact that there is nothing that you can do or not do that is going to cause them to succeed or fail.

It helped me to pray to God and to St. Jude to help her be a good mom, and find some peace and happiness in her life.

Christabel, I actually do have to kind of concur with your well meaning friends about her time away. It really might be good for her and you may see some changes. Time will tell, I guess.

You are all in my prayers.
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christabel1956
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2007, 06:26:25 AM »

Good Morning Moms,

Lasagna, I almost fell off my chair with laughter when I read the section of your post:

I think she'd be happier if she had actually had abusive, drug-dependent, selfish parents who whipped her regularly. then she wouldn't have to pretend so much.

Again, I see myself through you, and thereby, find laughter in the preposity of this disorder.  I had just told my therapist last week that I almost wish I could go back to a precise incident that was vile and awful.  Perhaps a scenario like:  Maybe I should have stopped prostituting myself and gotten off of crack. Or: Maybe I shouldn't have set her hair on fire. 

All ficticious of course, but better subject matter to being the recipient of so much wrath and contempt.  I was raised by a borderline mother and have a plethura of vile and awful scenarios in my past.  Oddly, no one on this earth has loved me the way my mother did.  She died when I was only 22, and I miss her everyday.  Through all of the physical and mental abuse, I never believed that I would be better off without her.  Her mentall illness provided many dark days, but, to the contrary, there were many beautiful moments shared between us. 

So, instead of being filled with rage, I find myself using my childhood as a stepping stone to the person I have become.  I am fifty years old, now, and have not one moment of regret.  I wrote a letter to my daughter before she graduated from college.  "A life lived without regret is a life filled with purpose."  I wouldn't go back one minute in time, and prayed that she would also find meaning in her life.  "Focus on the little things.  They will constantly surround you.  Waiting for moments of grandeur will come few and far between."  I'm afraid her disorder picked those poignant words apart to be construed as something dark.  It was a beautifully composed letter that was read outloud by her sorority sisters.  I have yet to get an acknowlegement that she even heard it.

Today is a brand new day and another opportunity for greatness.  I am very focused on the blessings in my life and have found this thread to be a God send.  I cry for all of our pain and I rejoice in the knowledge that you all "get me".  Mom's with "normal" stuff have "normal" advice.  Plus, they are way too horrified.  They boil it down to, "You're her mom."  like you're in some control booth and just not pressing the right button!  I actually had a therapist tell me, "Any parent that allows themself to be estranged from their own child, has not tried everything possible."  Yea, that sent me back a bit.  Needless to say that was our last session.  Thankfully, I found someone incredible who counsels me without judgement.

Mikki, Lasagna, Grace and Ramona... .I am grateful for the moment that provoked me to come back to this site.  It had been a while, and find a beautiful synchronicity in my life's events.  It is all going the way it's supposed to.

Warmest regards,

Christabel


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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2007, 02:15:41 PM »

Christabl; Your daughter joined a sorority!  Did it last?    My BPDd couldn't even tolerate roomates and kids on her dorm floor. It was just apparent that she was unable to conform to any relationship issues.

So, I'm not glossing over anything here (meaning your daughter's behavior). But maybe your daughter is not as socially impaired as mine?  My BPDd would never join the Peace Corp.  She'd start fighting with someone there! Jealousy, rage, self-centeredness, inability to recognize her being wrong in any situation. And of course, the icing on the proverbial cake: false accusations, lying, confabulating.

I think the entire village would chase her out of town w/i a week! The host family would change the locks on their hut!

Plus, my BPDd is so enmeshed with her b/f that he sits with her in salon when she gets a manicure. She is nothing without him.

I'm not comparing BPDds here. Just interesting to note how they can function  on such different levels in DSM IV criteria.

Universality is the term for what I am experiencing in this thread. To find out that I have comrades all dealing with the same situation!

The one very positive aspect of my BPDd is this: She always wanted to be a special-ed teacher since second grade. Despite a myriad of difficulties (caused by her) she did finish her degree and has been teaching for a year. She seems to do well in that environment. If I can brag about her for a second, she is a gifted teacher.    But she still demonstrates outragous behavior with family.

so maybe Peace Corp may give your daughter the structure of a system that she desperately needs.

Just because I don't enjoy my daughter, doesn't mean I can't be proud of her accomplishments in other areas of life.I hope I don't sound preachy here. These are just my thoughts spilling out.  And I often feel "euphoric" after a migraine. something to do with brain chemistry response to pain.  Too bad it doesn't work that way with the pain my BPDd causes me.   People would think that I'm high on illicit drugs!
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trustyourgut
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2007, 01:24:28 AM »

Dear loving moms,

     I too have a daughter that I suspect has BPD. The last time I talked to her she hung up on me.  I have made one attempt to talk to her.  I emailed her and told her that I loved her and if she wanted to talk when she felt better to email me.  That was over two months ago.  Her behaviors just don't make sense.  I've only told my ex-SIL of my suspicions that my dtr has BPD.  She told me in a very nice way that she just thought my daughter was just use to getting her own way.  There is more to it than that.  As moms or dads I think we have an intuition that something just isn't right.  We may not be able to put our finger on it right away but at least for me there has always been a nagging feeling that something was wrong.  When she was smaller and I would tell her to clean up her room she would almost be in a panic as if she didn't know where to start.  Even if I stayed and showed her how to clean, the next time she would still be in a panic.  She would put clothes and say dishes (unwashed) in her drawers.  She would mix books, pens and clothes together in a drawer.  I often wondered if she had add.  Trying to help her with homework was horrific.  She would get so upset if she didn't understand something.  The more I tried to explain it to her the more upset she got.  I'm not sure if this has anything to do with BPD but just some observations of things not being right.  During high school it was a chore to get her to go to school.  She would pretend to vomit saying she was sick so she wouldn't have to go.  I caught her once making herself vomit.

     As of today she is totally dependent on her boyfriend for everything.  He is the only one working.  He goes to the grocery store.  He takes care of the baby a lot because she is sick often.  She has theses terrible migraines.  He works all day and comes home and cooks or they eat out.  It seems like all she knows how to do is eat and shop. 

     When she first found out she was pregnant she told his mom first.  That hurt.  I tried to tell myself I was being petty about it and to let it go.  That brought to mind Lasagna's daughter telling ev1 she was there to visit 3 days earlier than her mom knew. The situations are a little different though. There are just some things that moms and daughters share.  I wanted to be the first to know.  Now she shares stuff with her so-called friends.  I say so-called because they have all stopped talking to her for years at a time.  They are back in her life now but aren't her true friends.  I'm sure that it was mostly my daughter's fault for the split.  She always expected them to drive when they went out.  My daughter still does not have her driver's license.  Her friends were expected to pay for her food or cover charges.  Her rationalization was that they had jobs and she didn't.  I think they got tired of being used and dropped her.  They talk to her now but any plans of getting together have never materialized.  I think they are keeping her at arm's length.  My daughter seems to socialize on the computer but not in person as much.  It's as if she can't carry on a conversation.  When I would visit she would spend her time watching tv or on the computer while I played with the baby.  It was mostly me asking questions and her saying yes or no.  Occassionally she would make small talk.  I felt like she was a stranger.

     I have recently found out that my daughter has lied about things also.  As I said in another post she has a public webpage with her known name (not like this one with a made up name).  She has changed things that have happened between us to put her in a more favorable light.  At the same time I think she really believes things happened as she says they did.

     One last thought or question.  When you hug your daughter does she ever hug you back?  My daughter tenses up and barely hugs me as if she is afraid.  She has only hugged me once in the last few years.  I am usually the one who initiates a hug.

     I miss my daughter.  I'm sorry we all have something in common but at the same time thankful you all are here.
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2007, 10:06:13 AM »

Ohiomom; Such a sad story of your relationship with your daughter. I am glad you found us so that you have a place to commiserate.

As usual, I'm sorry to hear that anyone has to go thru this. but it does help to know that others are living day-to-day with the same situation.

When I read your story, I could clearly see that your daughter is mentally ill. I wish I could see that in my daughter, it might make this an easier journey. But I only see it in other people's BPDkids.

I am trying to work on the "disease model" perception of my BPDd's behavior. In the moment of her actions, however, I feel rejected and hurt. Maybe someday I'll be able to see it as part of an illness.  If my daughter was Bipolar or Schizophrenic, I would tolerate so much more. But BPD is so mysterious.     Anyway, this is what I'm working on this week.

That last migraine was an awful two day one. I know it resulted from the stress of daughter's visit. Felt like someone was hammering my head.  I hate to feel that my body caved in to stress so much.
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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2007, 07:23:54 PM »

Welcome Ohiomom and hello to all,

I had a beautiful day today with my husband and 14 year old son.  We went for a 9 mile hike, and shared a beautiful summit.  A picture perfect day.  A day that gives me a hiatus from mental illness and the loud silence that comes from my BPD daughter.  I am grateful to have glimpses of normalcy, and the validation that I am valued as a mom. 

Yes, Lasagna, my daughter joined a sorority.  I believe it became her family.  As is typical with BPD, she has severed ties with all of her high school friends.  Soon she will disconnect from her "sisters" from college.  I'm sure she will not keep in touch with any of them.  Her high school friends told me they made many attempts at phone calls and e-mails to no avail.  People get tired of having to work that hard for nothing.  I can relate to that.  She rarely answered her phone or any of my e-mails through her college years.  My voice and my words seem to fall into a deep dark void.

As far as the Peace Corp goes, I have an added dynamic to my daughter having BPD.  Her father is a narcissist.  I don't know how much studying you've done about personality disorders, but narcissism has many characteristics of BPD with the added bonus that narcissists only have love for themselves.  The people they keep in their "circle" are all suppliers for their monster egos.  They don't do anything for anybody unless it somehow comes back to them in someway.  Adult daughters are a very trippy supply for a narcissist.  My girls have such severe abandonment issues by him, it doesn't take much to make them jump.  Hence, this Peace Corp endeavor, I am almost certain, is a way for my daughter to feel "connected" to her dad.  Borderlines are very attracted to people who will really abandon them.  His love is totally conditional and inconsistent.  She craves this kind of instability and emotional chaos.  They are actually good for each other in a very sadistic sick way. 

This is why I find it so fascinating that my daughter isn't speaking to me at all.  She is living with her dad for the summer, and before this we at least kept in touch a little bit.  Far from a close bonded relationship, but not completely cut off.   My ex makes both of my daugter's feel a little guilty for loving me.  It has always been a competition for him about who they love more.  The BPD daughter is so desperate for his love and approval that she will throw me under the bus to get it.  Again very sick, but all very true and out of my control.  She is willing to participate and she is an adult. 

Ohiomom, you have found a group of women who are all ears with big shoulders.  We are blessed to have found one another.  I feel your pain... .in regard to your daughter's pregnancy announcement. I am a hairstylist and when my daughter had me do her hair, make-up and nails for prom... .she treated me like crap for the whole day.  She looked amazing (she is a beautiful girl) but barely acknowledged my participation.  Later that nite, she was crowned prom queen.  I found out 4 days later when our local paper printed her picture on the front page.  She never told me herself.  The boyfriend's parents were called and told the night of the prom.   These things hit us right in the gut.  My therapist asked me to visualize a scenario that would protect me from that gut wrenching feeling.  I pictured myself in a Superman outfit deflecting bullets.  Then I laughed... .first a giggle and then full on laughter.  It felt good... .and now when I feel the potential in that "gut" feeling... .I picture myself in tights with a cape!

Bless all of you who read and share your stories. 

Much love and admiration,

Christabel
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2007, 08:07:55 PM »

christabel; I'm not getting the part about the Peace Corp connection to the NPD father. Maybe I missed a post along the way, But I do want to follow your story.

I taught my younger daughter how to parallel park today, in preparation for her driver's license. she was beaming when she asked that dad come out of the house to watch her do it. It reminded me of the first time she rode her bike w/o training wheels. It also reminded me of all those childhood milestones that we celebrated with BPDd. But she hates us. Where did all those memories go?

As for NPD, my BPDd's live-in bf is definitely NPD. No doubt about it. Research demonstrates that those two PDs seek out each other in relationships. They feel "complete" with each other, in a twisted sort of way.

Okay, ladies, fasten your seatbelts for this next story. I am about 97% certain that BPDd's bf is gay. She always thought he was a "closeted"  gay when she knew him in hi school. Everyone is shocked that he is having a relationship with  a woman. BPDd's MD told her to use condoms (even though she is in a long-term monogamous relationship) after he saw the bf:"You never know what guys your bf has had  sex with." My BPDd has reportedly told someone that marriage is out of the question because her bf is dealing with the possibility of identifying himself as gay.  WHY WOULD YOU PLAN YOUR LIFE AROUND A PERSON WHO PROBABLY IS NOT A GOOD MATCH?     gAY guys are great, but I never thought one would have a relationship with my daughter. He definitely has effeminate mannersims, majored in theatre,  etc.  I can understand that he is confused, would love not to be gay, etc. She is his "beard", if this is true.  They never hold hands or act affectionate. they just talk about their couplehood all the time. A bit of overcompensation, if you ask me. They just bought a house together, and now I hear that he's not sure he's straight. She really is delusional if she thinks this will work out.

So she converted her faith so that she could remain in a relationship with a gay guy. This is a mental illness. This has my head spinning. What it boils down to is that I pray that she listens to the doc who told her to use condoms. Who knows when bf might act on his impulses.

As for the recent fiasco of a visit, my mind has healed but my body lags behind. I'm getting too old for this kind of devastation. Just to briefly review her rejections: she showed up for dinner having just eaten, she had been in town for 3 days before the date she scheduled with us and (finally) she kept our car about 32 hours later than she had planned. Yes, she tries to avoid us. And she also tries to provoke my rage. I hold it in but it takes its toll on my body.    Thanks for listening, Ladies. Have a pleasant nite.
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2007, 02:06:14 AM »

Wow!  I can't even think of anything to say about the possibility that her bf might be gay. Is her relationship more of a friendship?  As I said I don't know much about BPD.  Do our children feel slighted by us in some way and then try to find ways to hurt us?  (your daughter being in town and not letting you know)  Didn't she know that someone would tell you?  Was that her intention? Hope you get some rest lasagna.

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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2007, 07:50:26 AM »

Hi Lasagna,

Sorry, I realize that my most recent post became a verbal perging and I did get on a ramble.  My ex is a mountaineer-climber by profession and passion.  It is all he thinks about while he's climbing and when he's not.  Anything else in his life becomes paled in comparison.  His climbing endeavors over the course of the past 30 years takes him to third world countries.  All the major peaks in this world find you in places like Africa, South America, Nepal, Pakistan, etc. 

Last year my daughter did her semester abroad in Ecuador, South America... .and now she is headed to Mozambique, Africa.  The line of her father going to third world countries by way of humanitarian effort and total self centeredness is skewed.  He goes solely to summit high altitude peaks... .she goes to get him to notice that she is just like him... .without the climbing part.  While joining the Peace Corp is an admirable endeavor, I am not convinced that she is doing it for the right reasons. She is way too materialistic, and is trying desperately to give the appearance that she needs little.  If that were true, she would have not incurred hundreds of dollars in overdraft fees over the past year.  She binge drinks, shops and eats.  I'd say she's put on 50 pounds in the last 2 years.  Not the beautiful prom queen that she was 4 years ago.  My ex's second wife is so cycled into the pattern of personality disorders, she gears her day to damage control.  Runs like a lunatic to give the appearance of normalcy.  A control freak beyond comprehension.  Our family dynamics are far from normal and I am the only one who deals in reality.  I stand in a lonely place.  A place where I must stand and watch.  I can not be a player, and I don't want to be a player.  I have tried to impact my daughter, but the draw of the father is way too strong.  Even my oldest daughter turns a blind eye to the dysfunction and copes by playing their game.  Choices, choices, choices.

OK, now for the gay, NPD, BF.  Whoa!  But, wouldn't that be typical of heading straight into the eye of the hurricane?  IE: turmoil and chaos?  Signing up for future unrest?  I believe that BPD's are constant self fulfilled prophets.  If there isn't any chaos, they'll create it to match the thunder of turmoil in their heads.  I often said my daughter was like "Pigpen" from Charlie Brown.  Where everything is calm around everybody else, there is always a cloud of dust around Pigpen.  I observe borderlines to be much in the same.  So utterly self destructive beyond words or comprehension.  The pain and aftermath for those of us who love them unconditionally... .horrific. 

I would love to think that my eloquence would provide me with astounding advice and comfort.  I fear that words are inadequate right now.  My sentiment, however, allows me to be you and feel your cries and your heart.  Our daughters are broken and yet we love them as a whole.  Every tiny fragment with love unconditioned.  That is our plight and our bond as moms.  We are on a journey and reminded that every step has a story. 

Be mindful my dear friends,

Christabel

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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2007, 11:21:08 AM »

I did not read all the replies to your thread, just your initial post.

My daughter is now 22.  She was diagnosed bp her senior year in high school.  I ended up in a physical battle with her that resulted in her moving out at 18.  College has been off and on for her.  She lived with a boyfriend, my ex, back with me, college dorm, married, a friend, now back with me, planning to move to dorm again.

We were no contact by her for almost a year until last March.  I just keep up with her with cards, email, text, voicemail, gifts mailed, etc on a regular basis so she does not ever feel abandoned.  I just keep my boundaries firm.  She knows I love her unconditionally, no matter what or where she finds herself in life.

You will be in my thoughts and prays.

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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2007, 12:00:56 PM »

Thanks for your validating responses. It helps so much.

I must be recovering from the most recent visit. I can see things outside of my own sadness. I saw yet another photo of a fla-draped coffin returning from Iraq. I prayed for that child's mom. Such an incredible loss of potential.

At least my daughter is alive, healthy, safe and self-sufficient. There is no comparison to grief of  the mother of a fallen GI. Arlington cemetary is filled beyond capacity. All those crosses and stars of David. those moms would do anything to be given another ten minutes with their child. They could care less if their child had converted. 

And so I heal. At least there is the future. maybe this a temporary arrangement for my daughter and bf. Neither one of them has any plan to sign up for the military. So today I pray for the moms of soldiers. And I will head a campaign to collect cell phone for phone cards for the military to call home. It is so much healthier for me to direct my energies in this direction. Sure, I will stumble again when my daughter rejects me. But, for now, I have  moved beyond the grief.

Thank you all for your words of guidance. I will be here for you anytime.
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« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2007, 06:37:46 AM »

Lasagna,

In many ways we are lucky that our children still walk this earth.  They are contributors to our society, and by all accounts seem healthy.  I suppose a mom who has lost a child in death would take a child that is mentally ill.  I, too, find myself diving into greater issues that seem beyond my comprehension.  I donate all the time to causes for those that are less fortunate. 

I know for myself, however, that I am in mourning.  I grieve for the death of my beautiful baby girl... .but she still breathes and interacts calmly and kindly with others.  I find myself desperate for the child that once wrote: "You are such a great mom, I never want to leave."  That was the last Mother's Day card she ever made me.  She was 15 years old.  The person that wrote that does not exist anymore.

There was a time that I would run to the sound of her footsteps with open arms.  Today my feet stay planted and my hugs remain glued to my sides.  Her hugs once engulfed me and lifted me from the floor.  Her body contact with me now is a lean in that only allows our shoulders to touch.  And that's when she wants to see me.  Otherwise, I am left with this deafening silence. 

Ruralstressed,

I, too, send cards and pictures.  Content filled with love and pride.  They go unanswered.  I do it for myself, I think.  I'm not sure if it's for her.  I don't defend myself anymore.  I know I am an amazing mom.  My own childhood requires that of me.  I built a home for my children to come to... .never to run from.  Horrifically, the peace and harmony that I created is chaos for a borderline.  It is "peaceful" for her to be at her dad's where emotion is never discussed, intimacy is never required, and love is given only by condition.  A relationship built on sand in the wind.  Constantly renegotiated with little consistancy.

Lasagna and Ruralstressed,

We are soldiers of our own right.  Waging war against an invisible force.  I have been told that the constant upheavals are trauma.  Not that we have to get all wrapped up in our own syndromes like PTSD, but acknowledging that it is a devastation to be the innocent recipients of undeniable rage.  A rage that is real, even if it is based on fiction and not on fact.  I think the "fiction" part makes it even worse and more traumatic.  To us, it is not tangible.  We will never fully understand where it all comes from.

To all who read,

We have come here to this site in the spirit of finding common threads.  We weave our stories in and around one another.  It is cathartic for us to sit before a keyboard to post comfort.  So, we share, advise and commiserate.  All walking similar paths on different soil.  We are moms with heart.  We are women with soul.  We are one.


A good Monday morning to all. 

With my utmost gratitude and appreciation,

Christabel

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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
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« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2007, 08:58:52 AM »

First, I am so glad that OhioWoman found this thread.  I just want to say that I have only been reading here for about a month, but just knowing that other mothers have been through what I have gone through for over twenty years has helped me so much!  Lasagna, OhioWoman, Christabel, Grace:  I am so grateful to know that  all of you are here. 

Ramona
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« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2007, 09:17:22 AM »

Ramona,

Ditto and Halleluiah!

Christabel
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« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2007, 10:53:44 AM »

This thread is beginning to resemble a Maya Angelou poem! And that, my friends, is a beautiful thing!   
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« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2007, 12:17:11 PM »

Just thought I'd mention that I have had awful nightmares for the past 3 nites. I'm not looking for sympathy, of course. It just helps to share this with people who don't say "You just need to snap out of it!"

I see T to'ow and I'm sure we will talk about the nightmares as being part of PTSD that is triggered by BPDd's visit. The nightmares make me cry in my sleep. In one, my hubby has abandoned/rejected me for no known reason (wonder what that comes from?)  Last nite's nightmare left me in tears because I was taking care of sextuplets and not doing a good job. I forgot to put sunscreen on two of the babies and I didn't have enough car seats so a Port Authority cop pulled me over on the George Washington Bridge (whick was cracking, by the way)

You don't need to be Freud to see what BPDd's visit stirred up in me. Not to mention that I suffered from shame/rejection as a child. 

Apparently, this is taking me a full week to get over my daughter's rejecting behavior.  Twice this week I took a shower, wet my hair  forgot to use shampoo. I am usually a very put-together person, but dodging all these arrows is not as easy as one may think.      so I will continue to take care of myself and work on healing. the worst thing I can do is get mad at myself for not getting over it.

BPDd had a beautiful sea shell collection from when she was 10-12. I guess it's part of the grieving process, but I lovingly aranged those shells with pink sand in a glass decanter today. It was a symbolic gesture that I just had to do. Everyone who enters my house comments on how beautiful it is, and it makes me remember those beautiful golden days when BPDd frolicked happily on the beach.
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« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2007, 02:07:16 PM »

Hello my friends

Lasagna, I thought I was the only person in the world who couldn't remember if she put shampoo in her hair, or detergent in the washer.  Yesterday I almost dried a load of clothes I hadn't even washed yet.  I guess my mind is just elsewhere.  And I have had those nightmares.  I have a LOT of nightmares - that is when I actually sleep.  Most of the time I toss and turn and stress about what we should do, what we should have done, etc.

My DD has had many friend-type relationships with gay men.  I always thought that it was strange that she would have so much in common with them.  Of course, these friendships never last - something always happens and she never talks to them again.  And it is strange but my husband always thought that a couple of DDs boyfriends were gay, though she always denied it.  Must be something to this?  Maybe they know that there really can't be any commitment with these guys so they go for it? 

I am still catching up on the posts in this thread but I wanted to say welcome to ohiomom and ruralstressed.  I'll bet you never in your wildest dreams thought you'd be posting on a website such as this one.  Ohiomom, I really identified with your descriptions of your dd.  I know all about those hugs.  So sad.  My DD used to pretend she was sick or make herself sick so she wouldn't have to go on field trips when she was in grade school.  I just thought she was always sick.  She told me recently that she had to find excuses because she didn't think she could go to all these activities.  At that time she didn't want to be separated from me at all. My DD also could not clean her room and in fact she still can't. When she was younger I would go in to her bedroom with her, empty all the drawers, and help her reorganize because if we sent her to her room to clean, she panicked and did nothing.  It didn't help.  She still keeps her dirty clothes and clean ones together.  She rarely will do her laundry so she wears dirty clothes.  Yuck.  And nothing is ever where it should be so she can never find anything.  Images of Christabel's "pigpen" come to mind.  Everywhere my DD goes, there is this chaos-like swirl around her. 

So today my DD got a little note from her bank saying that she was way-overdrawn on her checking account  and she was being assessed over $100 in fees.  I am not surprised at all but she seemed to be.  I am actually surprised that she opened the envelope.  She usually just tosses things like that aside. She has no money.  She finally owned up to us that she had left her job back in mid-June, but only after my husband showed her the termination check dated June 15 that he found behind a bookcase a week or so ago.  And only after continuing to deny it for days.  We had thought she was going off to work everyday.  She told us the stories about work and her fellow employees & left in her uniform every day but we were starting to get suspicious as she has done this before (last summer). Her schedule became different and she started leaving for work late and I just knew something was up.  I really and truly think she actually thought she was going to work.  She lives in her own reality.  Anyway, supposedly she had found another job a couple of weeks ago - no benefits though, so no health insurance, again.  But we have yet to see a paycheck from that job either.  Meanwhile she has bills to pay and she will have no car at the end of the month.  And so life goes... .

Take care,

Grace

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« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2007, 02:15:43 PM »

Lasagna--I love the sea shell project idea! Sounds beautiful and a theraputic way to remember a happier time. Some days it is too painful to think about those memories, but other days it can be a comfort.  Nightmares are so awful  because they seem to carry a kind of shell-shocked feeling into our waking hours. I told my husband the other day, I don't remember the last time that I actually had a GOOD dream.

Ohiomom--Welcome to our board. I share others sentiments that we are sorry that you are going through all of this, but happy that you found a place of support.

To all the moms--It is really good to read your posts. They are all so profound and eloquent. I sense healing beginning through the sharing of common circumstances, pain, discoveries, and conclusions. I think this grieving process may be different than others. On the one hand, a wound can begin to close only to have another incident cause it to reopen again and again. On the other, we can always hope.

I never thought I would ever again eagerly await my daughter's visits and phone calls with the expectation of a loving, enjoyable visit. It may take a long time, years and years, but eventually you may see glimpses and even the return of that someone you knew as your little girl.


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« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2007, 03:52:19 PM »

oops

sorry ruralstressed... .I just re-read my post and realized that I was welcoming you to this board and you have been around a lot longer than I have based on all of your previous postings.  What I really meant to say was welcome to the thread!

Take care,

Grace
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« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2007, 08:35:38 PM »

Hi to all moms,

I had a pretty successful session with my therapist today.  I felt pretty strong and really coming to terms with my daughter leaving for Africa with no contact between us.

Then I had a dentist appt.  I live in a small town.  So my dentist asked if I will be seeing my daughter, at all, while she's in Africa.  I felt my eyes well up and I choked a little.  I was honest and told that my daughter and I don't have contact.  I advised him that he probably knew more than I.  I knew that she had several appts with him for documentation in order to comply with Peace Corp regulations.  All of her medical stuff is done by her dad's wife and I am not privvy to any of it.   

My dentist not only knew where she was going, but he also knew when she was leaving for her training.  Toward the end of September.   When I briefed him on the estrangement, he felt terrible and looked at me as if I had cancer.   He is a very sweet and kind man and he could only say, "This breaks my heart."  I've been bringing my children to him since they were babies. 

So, I got to my car and burst into tears.  Not as strong as I thought I was.

My therapist proposed a question before I left today.  A question for me to mull over the next few weeks.  Bear with me as I propose this to all of you moms who read:

What is your responsibility to or for your daughter?

Thanx in advance for your wisdom, and your candor.  I don't know what I'd do without all of you during this very tough transition.

Love,

Christabel
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nonnon
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« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2007, 10:45:01 PM »

you are all very maya a. And good for you to hang in together.

i am a step. albeit one who hears more from the stepd than her parents do because she wont really talk to them, whose life has felt dominated by this stuff, and so on but a step nonetheless.

one thing is clear in reading your posts and its a helpful reminder to me relative to how i think about my husband, my BPD step's dad.

you are hardwired to love, no matter what. thats the only way I can describe it: hard wired.

doesnt matter what they do, around you, to you, despite you: you love them.

that is either really wonderful or deeply painful, depending ... .

as a step, i am affected, disturbed, sad, worried and so on. but i, only speaking for me anyway, do not believe i ache the same way you seem to for them and due to them. other steps may feel differently to be sure.

reading your words helps me get my h better, so thank you.

it is nice to see you turn to each other as you do.

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