Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
August 04, 2021, 10:08:43 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Things we can't afford to ignore
Depression: Stop Being Tortured by Your Own Thoughts
Surviving a Break-up when Your Partner has BPD
My Definition of Love. I have Borderline Personality Disorder.
Codependency and Codependent Relationships
89
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Is it 50/50 when it comes to problems in a relationship?  (Read 4921 times)
Matt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced.
Posts: 14130



WWW
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2013, 12:11:23 PM »

I agree with you and disagree with Matt. Taking responsibility for someone else's bad behavior is not insightful, it is enabling.

Did anybody here say that "taking responsibility for someone else's bad behavior is... .  insightful"?
Logged

PDQuick
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Happily living with myself
Posts: 2828


Don't look outside for the answers within.


« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2013, 01:49:04 PM »

If you ever divorce me, I will take you for every cent you have and you will never see your son again. You'll wish you had never been born.

I knew this was not an idle threat. She has made good on her promise now, 14 years later. She has dragged out the divorce for two long grueling expensive years... .  


 

Stressed'

You had an emotional affair and it appears that you left her for this women. Women (and men) get really violated by this and can get pretty testy.  Ask any divorce lawyer or family law clerk will they will tell you.  This is the unintended fruit of the tree you planted.  And laying claim to 0% responsibility for the conflict in your life right now is not reasonable.

Be honest with yourself. If you were "so fearful of her blackmailing you that I stayed married for 27 years", the worst thing would be to leave her to pursue an emotional affair - that would make any divorce contentious.

We are not beating you up for your life choices as we would all need to beat ourselves self up first, but we are saying "face the facts".  

Your divorce will go better if you let go of your victim status, accept that you are going to be beat up a bit by the family court and the emotional injury you inflicted, and manage this like a business situation.  Anything else is going to make it worse.

When this is over, the assets will be split and you will walk off with your new girlfriend and she will be alone and starting life over at 60.

The original post:

I know the right answer is yes, it's 50/50.  We are equally at fault for the problems in the relationship.

But I keep feeling that, and sorry, it's really mostly him... .  more like 95/5.  

I know I'm not perfect, but gosh, do I try hard.


Thanks for bringing this back around Matt.  To the OP, I understand that studies show that in high conflict divorces, each party blames the other party for starting and driving the conflict.   It helps to see this and realize that while you can't make anything better (you can't stop the other party), you can "not make it worse".

Logged


tog
*******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1198


« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2013, 02:35:50 PM »

I don't think my SO has 0% responsibility for the failure of his marriage or for the high conflict divorce, but it's not 50% either. I can't speak to the marriage because I wasn't there, but in the divorce, he is about 25% to blame for the conflict level. In three years I have never seen him START a conflict with her, not once. But the way he responds to her provocation and bad behavior escalates it and keeps it going. I think there was a similar dynamic in their marriage. If she had been able to be reasonable about the divorce, it would have been a low-conflict, amicable affair because I do believe that was his intention.

We have a healthy relationship and prior to his BPDstbxw, he had other healthy ones.

I don't think anyone is ever 0% to blame, that would imply you always handled everything perfectly... .  
Logged
Matt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced.
Posts: 14130



WWW
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2013, 03:05:19 PM »

I'm just not sure this is valid math at all.

If you have 100 apples and a keg of beer, what % of the total is red?

Answer:  That's a stupid question.

I don't think it makes any sense to try to figure out what % of a two-person problem belongs to each person.

I think all you can say is, "I'm 100% responsible for what I do and say, and don't do and don't say.  And the other party is 100% responsible for what she does and says, and neglects to do."

You can't add them up, or divide them, or whatever.  Math doesn't work like that.
Logged

StressedinCleveland
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: 2-year ongoing divorce court battle
Posts: 1360



« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2013, 03:24:31 PM »

You had a affair. Women (and men) get deeply violated by that and can get pretty testy.  Ask any divorce lawyer or family law clerk will they will tell you.  This is the fruit of the tree you planted.

I think you have me confused with someone else. There was no affair. I had a platonic friendship only.

My STBX and I agreed to divorce in May 2011. I had hired a lawyer. We took off our wedding rings and she suggested we were free to date other people. I had a date with my platonic friend the next day.

I can understand why you make the mistake --there are a lot of nons who have affairs during long sexless relationships. I did not. To tell the truth, I might have had an affair if I met the right person but it turns out that very few decent women are interested in relationships with married men. So no, there was no affair. Only a clean and honest break.

Logged
StressedinCleveland
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: 2-year ongoing divorce court battle
Posts: 1360



« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2013, 03:31:25 PM »

I'm just not sure this is valid math at all.

If you have 100 apples and a keg of beer, what % of the total is red?

Answer:  That's a stupid question.

I don't think it makes any sense to try to figure out what % of a two-person problem belongs to each person.

I think all you can say is, "I'm 100% responsible for what I do and say, and don't do and don't say.  And the other party is 100% responsible for what she does and says, and neglects to do."

You can't add them up, or divide them, or whatever.  Math doesn't work like that.

OK, I think we can agree 100% on everything you said there!

I was trying to say that I am only responsible for my own actions. None of my actions were dysfunctional.

When I see people obsessing over what they might have done differently in a dysfunctional relationship I become very concerned that they are beating themselves up unnecessarily. The dysfunction belongs to the dysfunctional partner. Even if you were provoked into behaving badly yourself (I do not think I was), you can be an entirely different person with a healthy partner.
Logged
Matt
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Divorced.
Posts: 14130



WWW
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2013, 03:37:20 PM »

I guess that's where we're different.  I don't beat myself up - I know I did my best, at least most of the time, and I've forgiven myself for the mistakes I made.  But I definitely made some big mistakes, and I think it's important to look back at those, and learn from them.

One thing I've seen very clearly here, trading stories with everyone, is that we tend to repeat things.  Either cycle back with the same person, or find someone else with some of the same characteristics, and repeat the relationship with some variations.

Seeing our own patterns of behavior - and sometimes we see them most clearly through the eyes of others here who are helping us - and then working to disrupt those patterns and replace them with better ones - that's the big journey most of us are on.

(But this "Family Law" board isn't usually so deep.  Mostly on here we talk about the specifics of the legal process.)
Logged

StressedinCleveland
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: 2-year ongoing divorce court battle
Posts: 1360



« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2013, 04:08:28 PM »

Matt, I see a lot of people on here beating themselves up. You seem to be doing that, but maybe not. I apologize for the misinterpretation.

I agree that if someone is recycling (H*o*o*v*e*r*i*n*g as we used to say) or attracting troubled partners over and over then they need to examine what they are bringing to these dysfunctional relationships. But no one should assume that a non is a recycler. Some of us are one-time victims. I know I'm not the only one here.

Just as there are high functioning pwBPD and low functioning ones, there are high functioning and low functioning nons.
Logged
Rose1
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 963


« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2013, 05:19:45 AM »

I think the blackmail point is very valid. Certainly DH was told pretty much the same thing and knew his exBPDetcw meant it. As it turned out he ended up a pauper in Texas before she finally stopped the financial stuff. We still are very careful if we travel to the US to make sure no one can spill the beans as to where we are. The woman is nuts and has a gun license (thank you Georgia), carries a concealed weapon and is a good shot.

DH often wonders too why so long but the reality is he stayed to make sure the kids were ok. The divorce then took over 4 years. I think remembering the reason for staying and that it was worthwhile helps.

Another thing that happens and this happened to me too, is that a BPD can overwhelm you with work and responsibility and while you are drowning in all that mess time passes without being aware of it because all you can do is barely keep your head above water.

In my case my marriage lasted 23 years - I ended up working 7 days a week running a family business and doing another job on the side to try and make ends meet since exBPDh one day just stopped working, doing all the housework, taking care of 2 kids 6 and 10, one of whom was disabled and required a lot of work.  I just never surfaced long enough to realise there might be options and when I did finally understand I was weeks away from collapse, I didn't have the emotional energy to add one more thing, never mind a divorce. Fortunately exBPDh walked out on us "to teach me a lesson" and I took a deep breath and never looked back. I'm still blamed for "leaving him when he was sick". And by the way I think that when a person deliberately makes life as difficult for the other person as they possible can - my exBPDh said he would and did, then that is evil. Owning 50% of that, like Matt says, is a stupid question.

DH's exBPDetcw told him she was going to have him broke and in jail and eventually threatened to kill him (which is when he left - that night). Owning 50% of that is also a stupid question.

That doesn't mean that in hindsight there weren't red flags. We discussed this recently and came to an interesting conclusion. We are both baby boomers. In our generation and our parents' generation, mental illness was not discussed much - in fact in the previous generation it was hidden. Certainly my exBPDh's family history in hindsight shows mental illness but it was so deeply hidden, a lot didn't come out until after we separated. My D's issues too point in that direction. But because of this, our parents had no real basis for warning, nor did we see issues as mental illness - after all there were really no points of reference as most severe cases were shut behind closed doors.

In my case BPD didn't come out until some time after we were married and not really until the birth of the oldest child - 12 years into our marriage. Prior to that I knew there were some issues and we were thinking adhd until I realised some of this cycled - then he was treated for bi polar, all of which were present but BPD on top of it.

The reason BPD started was until then I had concentrated on my husband and gave him 100% attention. Once we had a child, that diluted somewhat and then around that time, family illness started to happen - probably makes sense - we were in our 30's, parents were ageing. By the time my youngest D was about 2 and her disability was making itself felt, exBPDh went totally off the rails. At that time both sets of parents had illnesses that were serious - my father dying 4 years after that.  Once that happened in the marriage with a BPD, I found that the attention that necessarily was divided started the downhill stuff. From that time on my ex declared war - everything was my fault and that justified punishment.

I have to agree with Stressed in Cleveland - DH and I are both nons - DH and I met on the board years ago. We have been married for 3 years and agree - we treat each other the same way we treated the BPD's in our lives. In our case we appreciate each other and have a great relationship. I'm not saying there aren't fleas.  Actually there are - you can't be in a relationship with a BPD for 40 years and not develop some communication issues (mostly blocks to communication).  However we went into this knowing that would be the case and promised we would work on them when they happened. So far that means on occasion we have had to talk to each other about things that were bothering us. But guess what - no rants, no payback etc. Just working on it. It's great to be able to communicate about the difficulties as well as the good things without consequences later.

Oops - wrong thread. Sorry.

Logged
Rose1
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 963


« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2013, 06:32:01 PM »

Excerpt
a personality that was experienced as normal for 8 or more years, that suddenly became symptomatic of BPD is very unsusual.

Hi - I think in long term relationships it's not as unusual as you may think. A lot of us who have been in very long term relationships - +20 years had years where things were pretty good - I don't think we are all masochists  Smiling (click to insert in post). However, a more relevant description in our cases could be the boiling frog syndrome - often discussed on this board years ago. A lot of had felt the heat slowly turn up and didn't realise it until we were in hot water and by then leaving was going into the frying pan.

All of us are different. My exBPDh was high functioning. DH's was less so but had moments of sheer brilliance. Plus each of us has different views and circumstances that colour our view - ie it's different having a 2 year old child than an 18 year old in the mix.

Rose
Logged
whatisthetruth

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 47



« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2013, 06:45:20 PM »

 " Something attracted us, and kept us, in an unhealthy relationship.  We played some role.

IMHO, its a little too easy to just say "it was all her fault" and I was "her victim."  It's also black and white thinking.  I played a role in all the dysfunction (problems) of my marriage, as much as I sometimes hate to admit it. I had few and weak boundaries, I was invalidating and argued, I tried to fix her and rescue her.  That stuff belongs to me.  "




Helpful.  thank you


Logged
caughtnreleased
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 631


« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2013, 04:34:13 PM »

also... . can't it be said that anything anyone does to you repeatedly, you are in some way responsible because you let it happen? We always have the choice to exit a situation, or relationship.  It's hard, when we want to be with someone... . but I think we need to accept responsibility, not just for how we treat people, but for how we allow people to treat us.
Logged

The crumbs of love that you offer me, they're the crumbs I've left behind. - L. Cohen
Tim300
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 557


« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2015, 02:34:13 PM »

I know the right answer is yes, it's 50/50.  We are equally at fault for the problems in the relationship.

But I keep feeling that, and sorry, it's really mostly him... .more like 95/5.  

Outside observers who are unfamiliar with BPD might try to say it's 50/50 or it takes two to fight, etc.  However, in a relationship with a pwBPD, I think 95/5 is fair.  If the pwBPD knows she has BPD and doesn't tell you (and you as the Non have no idea what's happening) I think it's fair to say that it's 99/1 or even 100/0.  The Non will make mistakes, but without knowing what the heck is going on how is the Non not going to make mistakes?
Logged
jhkbuzz
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1639



« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2015, 03:23:12 PM »

As for relationship problems being 50/50: I don't think that assigning blame is useful. I do think that both need to put their full effort into solving the problems for success. The tricky part is that when one person is badly disordered, their "best" doesn't look like very much, especially compared to the "best" an emotionally healthy person can do. Heck, it doesn't look good even compared to the "best" a horribly co-dependent non can do Smiling (click to insert in post)

You know, I don't think "assigning blame" is what's at the bottom of the 50/50 question.  I think it's more the intense way that many of us have examined ourselves every way from Sunday to figure out if there was something "more" we could have done to salvage the relationship - or if there was something that we needed to "fix" within ourselves that we missed.  This really points towards our underlying, nagging fear that perhaps we really WERE the reason why the relationship didn't work! Especially in the beginning months, we are haunted by questions such as, 'was it me?' 'Is there something else I could have done?'  ':)id the relationship with this person that I deeply loved end because of ME?'  

As we come out of the FOG, I think we all become aware of how much we bent over backwards - to forgive, to understand, to nuture, to take responsibility - all to no avail.  I honestly would have done A LOT to make my r/s work - but that doesn't matter because SHE wasn't able to participate in an emotionally healthy, adult relationship because of the disorder - and that's the crux of the matter. And that's where the 50-50 falls apart - there's NOTHING I could have done to change that fact. I can't take 50% responsibility for a disorder that exists 100% apart from me.

Were there problems in the relationship?  Sure, EVERY relationship has problems.  :)id I cause problems in the relationship?  Of course, I'm human and imperfect. We both brought our 'stuff' into the relationship and we both caused problems at different times.

But this is the thing:  it's the RESPONSE to the problems that make or break the relationship.  If you respond to relationship problems by emotionally exiting instead of working things out then you are 100% responsible for the failure of the relationship.  If you engage in chronic lying instead of honest communication, then you are 100% responsible for the failure of the relationship. If abandon your commitment and seek sexual relationships with others instead of working things out, then you are 100% responsible for the failure of the relationship.

The original poster asked, is is 50/50 when it comes to problems in the relationship? Perhaps the answer is yes - we all bring our 'stuff' with us into a relationship.  But there is not 50/50 responsiblity when it comes to solving the problems in the relationship. Most of us have put 110% effort to that end, because our SO with BPD are not able to do this in a consistent, healthy, adult way.
Logged
Tim300
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 557


« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2015, 03:28:17 PM »

As for relationship problems being 50/50: I don't think that assigning blame is useful. I do think that both need to put their full effort into solving the problems for success. The tricky part is that when one person is badly disordered, their "best" doesn't look like very much, especially compared to the "best" an emotionally healthy person can do. Heck, it doesn't look good even compared to the "best" a horribly co-dependent non can do Smiling (click to insert in post)

You know, I don't think "assigning blame" is what's at the bottom of the 50/50 question.  I think it's more the intense way that many of us have examined ourselves every way from Sunday to figure out if there was something "more" we could have done to salvage the relationship - or if there was something that we needed to "fix" within ourselves that we missed.  This really points towards our underlying, nagging fear that perhaps we really WERE the reason why the relationship didn't work! Especially in the beginning months, we are haunted by questions such as, 'was it me?' 'Is there something else I could have done?'  ':)id the relationship with this person that I deeply loved end because of ME?'  

As we come out of the FOG, I think we all become aware of how much we bent over backwards - to forgive, to understand, to nuture, to take responsibility - all to no avail.  I honestly would have done A LOT to make my r/s work - but that doesn't matter because SHE wasn't able to participate in an emotionally healthy, adult relationship because of the disorder - and that's the crux of the matter. And that's where the 50-50 falls apart - there's NOTHING I could have done to change that fact. I can't take 50% responsibility for a disorder that exists 100% apart from me.

Were there problems in the relationship?  Sure, EVERY relationship has problems.  :)id I cause problems in the relationship?  Of course, I'm human and imperfect. We both brought our 'stuff' into the relationship and we both caused problems at different times.

But this is the thing:  it's the RESPONSE to the problems that make or break the relationship.  If you respond to relationship problems by emotionally exiting instead of working things out then you are 100% responsible for the failure of the relationship.  If you engage in chronic lying instead of honest communication, then you are 100% responsible for the failure of the relationship. If abandon your commitment and seek sexual relationships with others instead of working things out, then you are 100% responsible for the failure of the relationship.

The original poster asked, is is 50/50 when it comes to problems in the relationship? Perhaps the answer is yes - we all bring our 'stuff' with us into a relationship.  But there is not 50/50 responsiblity when it comes to solving the problems in the relationship. Most of us have put 110% effort to that end, because our SO with BPD are not able to do this in a consistent, healthy, adult way.

Very well written.  I agree 100%.
Logged
jhkbuzz
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1639



« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2015, 03:32:01 PM »

As for relationship problems being 50/50: I don't think that assigning blame is useful. I do think that both need to put their full effort into solving the problems for success. The tricky part is that when one person is badly disordered, their "best" doesn't look like very much, especially compared to the "best" an emotionally healthy person can do. Heck, it doesn't look good even compared to the "best" a horribly co-dependent non can do Smiling (click to insert in post)

You know, I don't think "assigning blame" is what's at the bottom of the 50/50 question.  I think it's more the intense way that many of us have examined ourselves every way from Sunday to figure out if there was something "more" we could have done to salvage the relationship - or if there was something that we needed to "fix" within ourselves that we missed.  This really points towards our underlying, nagging fear that perhaps we really WERE the reason why the relationship didn't work! Especially in the beginning months, we are haunted by questions such as, 'was it me?' 'Is there something else I could have done?'  ':)id the relationship with this person that I deeply loved end because of ME?'  

As we come out of the FOG, I think we all become aware of how much we bent over backwards - to forgive, to understand, to nuture, to take responsibility - all to no avail.  I honestly would have done A LOT to make my r/s work - but that doesn't matter because SHE wasn't able to participate in an emotionally healthy, adult relationship because of the disorder - and that's the crux of the matter. And that's where the 50-50 falls apart - there's NOTHING I could have done to change that fact. I can't take 50% responsibility for a disorder that exists 100% apart from me.

Were there problems in the relationship?  Sure, EVERY relationship has problems.  :)id I cause problems in the relationship?  Of course, I'm human and imperfect. We both brought our 'stuff' into the relationship and we both caused problems at different times.

But this is the thing:  it's the RESPONSE to the problems that make or break the relationship.  If you respond to relationship problems by emotionally exiting instead of working things out then you are 100% responsible for the failure of the relationship.  If you engage in chronic lying instead of honest communication, then you are 100% responsible for the failure of the relationship. If abandon your commitment and seek sexual relationships with others instead of working things out, then you are 100% responsible for the failure of the relationship.

The original poster asked, is is 50/50 when it comes to problems in the relationship? Perhaps the answer is yes - we all bring our 'stuff' with us into a relationship.  But there is not 50/50 responsiblity when it comes to solving the problems in the relationship. Most of us have put 110% effort to that end, because our SO with BPD are not able to do this in a consistent, healthy, adult way.

Very well written.  I agree 100%.

Thank you Tim300 - it was very cathartic to write all that out!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
Logged
Trog
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 698


« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2015, 04:06:43 PM »

I know the right answer is yes, it's 50/50.  We are equally at fault for the problems in the relationship.

But I keep feeling that, and sorry, it's really mostly him... .more like 95/5.  

I know I'm not perfect, but gosh, do I try hard.

The reason it's 50/50 is because they behave that way and we allow it... .And allow a little bit more... .Then a little bit more... .Then etc etc.

We do not get to tell a person how to love us. We get to choose if we participate in the way they love.

You can't be prepared for BPD, it's a life lesson for those naturally predisposed to rescuing, accepting bad behaviour, they are attracted I us precisely for these qualities no we participate fully in the dance because it feels familiar. It is 50/50, however, they participate in exceptionally wounding and cruel behaviours, in many cases we are only guilty of trusting the wrong person and I'm not into guilting myself on this. I made a mistake. I won't make it again.
Logged
jhkbuzz
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1639



« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2015, 05:15:28 PM »

I know the right answer is yes, it's 50/50.  We are equally at fault for the problems in the relationship.

But I keep feeling that, and sorry, it's really mostly him... .more like 95/5.  

I know I'm not perfect, but gosh, do I try hard.

The reason it's 50/50 is because they behave that way and we allow it... .And allow a little bit more... .Then a little bit more... .Then etc etc.

We do not get to tell a person how to love us. We get to choose if we participate in the way they love.

You can't be prepared for BPD, it's a life lesson for those naturally predisposed to rescuing, accepting bad behaviour, they are attracted I us precisely for these qualities no we participate fully in the dance because it feels familiar. It is 50/50, however, they participate in exceptionally wounding and cruel behaviours, in many cases we are only guilty of trusting the wrong person and I'm not into guilting myself on this. I made a mistake. I won't make it again.

I understand what you're saying - I really do.  But I can honestly say that I have never been in another helping/rescuing relationship in my life.  And I'm in my 50's.  To a large degree, I was blindsided.

Did I stay?  Yes.  I was very much the frog in the slowly boiling pot of water.  And there was a child involved.  But I could have never imagined the degree of dysfunction - I had no idea it existed.
Logged
Trog
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 698


« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2015, 05:22:18 PM »

Me neither! I can't understand many things, people who cut themselves to ease pain, I could never understand that but there is some more literature on that and I'd encountered it. We are encouraged to forgive, offer nice things, be kind as kids, we can't imagine someone would self sabotage a relationship and lie to us. Even when it's happening. I think the slow boil frog is about the mark for most of us.
Logged
Perfidy
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced/18 years Single/5 months that I know of.
Posts: 1594



« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2015, 08:09:46 PM »

A relationship has a beginning and an end. It has a life. A romantic relationship has a life that is defined by the combination of two people. It definitely takes two people equally willing to have romance. Just as long and short define each other, two people together define a relationship.
Logged
rarsweet
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 592


« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2015, 08:27:10 PM »

My therapist told me you can't reason with an unreasonable person . That is so true but I am responsible for not engaging.
Logged
SlyQQ
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 793


« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2015, 12:51:08 AM »

Sounds like something Dr phil would say an it is so wrong it is not funny you will never fix many of your partners problems nor do you have resposibility for the actions of your partner you do not own people ( even half ) but they own there problems even if you have to deal with the fallout and you can choose to help them ( if they even want your help )
Logged
Perfidy
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced/18 years Single/5 months that I know of.
Posts: 1594



« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2015, 12:59:06 AM »

With a reasonable mind anything can be reasoned with. Make the mind sharp. Be reasonable even if everything else is unreasonable.
Logged
jhkbuzz
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1639



« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2015, 07:50:11 AM »

Just read an interesting article called "From Promise to Promiscuity" about the underlying reasons for an affair. I found this paragraph enlightening in the context of this 50/50 conversation:

"While the landscape of illicit love has been shifting, the therapeutic world has remained fairly fixed in the belief that affairs occur because something is radically wrong with the marriage... .But there's evidence that in almost two-thirds of cases, marital problems are the effect, not the cause, of extramarital involvements. Further, affairs themselves skew perceptions of the marriage. Once infidelity has occurred, partners tend to look back on their primary relationship and see it as having been flawed all along—an attempt to reduce cognitive dissonance... .

Affairs, says Washington, D.C., psychologist Barry McCarthy, are "the absolutely best example of behavior being multicausal, multidimensional. There are many contributing factors. Sometimes they have nothing to do with the marriage. The most common reason for an affair is high opportunity. People fall into affairs rather than plan them." Another very common cause of affairs, he observes, is that "people do not feel desired and desirable in their marriage, and they want to see if they can be desired and desirable outside it." For others, he notes, the affair is a symptom of a mental health problem like alcohol abuse or bipolar disorder.

Or borderline personality disorder... .

www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201206/promise-promiscuity
Logged
Turkish
Senior Ambassador
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned in Feb 2013.
Posts: 11085


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2015, 02:46:16 PM »

When a partner blames you for 100% of the problems and sends you to therapy (and even expects you to go to a couples' communication class by yourself), then where is the equity in that?

As Matt's comment said early in this thread, just stating something, even if it sounds good, doesn't make it true. Feelings aren't facts, and opinions are exactly that. I accept what I owned, but I'm not willing to own something she won't accept.
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Reforming
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 768



« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2015, 09:17:51 AM »

Hi all and happy new year,

A really interesting thread filled with lots of great opinions.

In the end does it really matter how the percentages of blame / responsiblity work out?

Does it serve any useful purpose to quanitfy blame?

Whether it's 90/10 60/40 or 50/50 for most of us the outcome of these relationships is the same.

I went into my relationship with a lot of optimism, niavete and considerable baggage of my own.

I tried my best, but I made lots of mistakes and did and said things that I regret.

At various points during the relationship and after it finished I've struggled to accept responsibility for my own choices and actions, but I realise that if I don't I'll end up stuck in the same place repeating the same patterns

I take some self respect from the knowledge that I tried my best, that I didn't cheat or betray or that I wasn't violent etc

But I'm not blind to my mistakes and I acknlowedge them and try to address them because I want to learn and I want to avoid making the same mistakes again.

To be blunt I think anyone who thinks that are blameless / faultness in a relationship is delusional

JHK, really interesting article about infidelity and I completely agree with your point about resolving issues.

Successful couples avoid blaming - a waste of energy and an exercise in futilty - and work together to resolve problems.

I remember trying to discuss this with my ex,  trying to convince her that it wasn't about blaming her or me for our problems, I just wanted to find a way forward together

Reforming  
Logged

Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2021 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
Andi1956
Anondad
Cnvi
doghouse
drained1996
EyesUp
Harri
JD2028
lovenature
Mac5
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
old97
P.F.Change
Skip
snowglobe
Swimmy55
Teno
Turkish
wendydarling

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!