I’m trying to leave permanently but I’m having troubles letting go.

[Sakura08]

I am currently separated from my husband. And I have been trying to start the process of moving on and healing. He often tries to contact me about how it’s still only my fault and that I never loved him or cared. He is in a relationship with someone else and is going to have a child with them. I am so hurt and confused because he tells me he doesn’t want to be with her and that he’s in a situation that he can’t get out of. That it’s me he wants to be with and he can’t do anything, but if I didn’t leave then it wouldn’t be this way. I don’t understand how he can actively contact me and still love me. Then tell me it’s my fault.
I still have feelings for him but I don’t understand how it can be this way. We didn’t want to get divorced but I don’t understand how he can do something very different.
I do feel like it’s all my fault a lot of times. That I shouldn’t have left and that I should have tried harder. I am having trouble letting go.
What is the healthy way to let go when the situation is like this?

[Sakura08]

I have been going to counseling since we have been separated. He told me I was the only one doing the wrong things that I’m the one that was thinking wrong and had the wrong priorities. One day I would be the center of his world on a pedestal, then the next I would be knocked off the pedestal because I wasn’t the person he knows. Always exhausted trying to fill the dark void in him with my love. When I would need some alone time he would be asking me when I was done needing my alone time. Telling me that I am his best friend and no one else. That I didn’t give him enough love and attention. He started to accuse me of not wanting to commit to him the way he was with me. That I chose my job and life over him. He would tell me I wasn’t faithful. Questioning everything about me. So one day I snapped and I actively had an affair which I hated doing because I felt torn up inside. When he found out he say he “knew it” and that I didn’t love him. After we tried to reconcile, but he kept rubbing what I did in my face. I kept trying to explain but he continuously called me a cheater.
Afterwards we were trying to pick up the pieces, but he had a mental breakdown and tried to commit suicide. I called the authorities and he was sent to the hospital. When he got out he attacked me for it and said I planned it. That this is what his ex wife had done to him. So I left, that was the last straw for me.
And after describing the situation and the way he treated me, she suggested to look into symptoms of bpd and referred me a book. I have never felt safer and more validated since I left. But he contacts me and we go through a cycle of him being sorry and that he understands me then he doesn’t remember that and that if I didn’t leave it wouldn’t be this way and then it’s all my fault and that he can’t be with me and then I’m the one who was wrong and then back to being sorry again.

[Pook075]

I have never felt safer and more validated since I left. But he contacts me and we go through a cycle of him being sorry and that he understands me then he doesn’t remember that and that if I didn’t leave it wouldn’t be this way and then it’s all my fault and that he can’t be with me and then I’m the one who was wrong and then back to being sorry again.

Hi Sakura and welcome!  I'm very glad you've shared your story with us.

Unfortunately, BPD is a serious illness and there's aspects of that relationships that you never had any control over.  Much of what you shared resonated in my marriage as well, so I can understand your pain and frustration.  It feels so impossible.

Question though- why do you allow him to still contact you?  If you feel safe and validated, if you know that you're not returning to him, then why continue to accept his abuse?  Just block him and go no contact.  That's the healthiest path available right now, to continue focusing on yourself without his blame and anger.

[Sakura08]

That is the part I am having trouble letting go of. I can most times, but then I read something that is too insensitive to not reply and then we start another circle again. And then I’m contacted on another platform. I want to talk it out but it just can’t happen. And I struggle with my own feelings for him and knowing that he might have bpd. I just want to be able to let go finally. And I’m having a hard time doing that.

[Kashi]

That comment you made about what he said,  he is in a situation he can't get out of.

I have heard that before. 

That is what my ex said about the person they left me for. 

She said that the relationship was "empty" and I said you feel like some of time, and she said, "no not that kind of empty."

The excuse is they stay with them because they don't know how to get out of it. 

They stay until they think their needs aren't being met or they will be exposed.  Their needs can never be met and should never be attempted because they are unrealistic expectations, you will never meet.

You will never make them happy.   Their inner self is miserable.

When I saw it from a distance, I was shocked.   I had never seen that look on her face.

It was misery.

She left and went with someone else and I saw some work photos of her with the other person at events. 

I could hardly recognize her. 

Some of the photos I could see the shame on her face and other I just saw her misery.

And that is what they have to give.  Misery.

And that's all.

My advice is to step away very very gently and keep doing it and don't look back.

[Sakura08]

He tells me that it’s me that keeps doing things wrong. That I caused so much pain, I gave him nothing but bad feelings. That I keep lying and was never faithful to him. I question myself constantly because of how many times he has said these things to me. I feel so bad about myself a lot. I just want to make things right but nothing feels better from it all. And him telling me about how he doesn’t love the person he is with but is happy to be having a baby, is so confusing.
I really am trying to let go and love myself but he pulls at my feelings and I let myself get confused.
I am really trying, I don’t know how to assert my feelings because then they are turned against me and they become my fault. My boundaries are wrong because he tells me that he crosses his boundaries for me but I won’t for him. I know that’s not right, but he doesn’t understand the concept.

[yellowbutterfly]

Hi Saukra,

First, I am glad you are on this board as it helped me so much.

Second, I know it is hard to go no contact with your former partner, especially in situations like these. So much of what you wrote resonates for me to with my xH. I hear you though that you do want the NC...

I want you to understand one important thing, this person is mentally ill, nothing they say or do will be rational nor will you be able to fix them or the situation. The accusations, the lies, and the pulling on your feelings make it hard but as Pook said, no contact is the only way you can move on and heal from this.

Sending positive thoughts for you

[Sakura08]

I couldn’t understand why I was always wrong. How I “didn’t make sense” when I would share my thoughts and feelings. It made me withdraw and stop being comfortable sharing. Everyday I was always making him feel lonely because I lived so far away.
When I asked if he would consider moving to the same town that I was in, he told me no and he would never want to live in the same town. He pressured me to live in his hometown and go along with his plans.
I always thought for the longest that I was selfish for not wanting to do what he wanted. But he said that it was wrong for wanting what I wanted. He refused my help, refused my suggestions, refused to acknowledge our faults. Nothing I did was helping because he just didn’t want to let me help. I worked hard when he didn’t have a plan. He kept saying that I was thinking wrong for planning.
I don’t understand how I could be wrong all the time. This is when I truly question. Am I wrong? Is it me? How can I be the love of his life when everything I do is wrong? Am I a bad person?

[SinisterComplex]

I couldn’t understand why I was always wrong. How I “didn’t make sense” when I would share my thoughts and feelings. It made me withdraw and stop being comfortable sharing. Everyday I was always making him feel lonely because I lived so far away.
When I asked if he would consider moving to the same town that I was in, he told me no and he would never want to live in the same town. He pressured me to live in his hometown and go along with his plans.
I always thought for the longest that I was selfish for not wanting to do what he wanted. But he said that it was wrong for wanting what I wanted. He refused my help, refused my suggestions, refused to acknowledge our faults. Nothing I did was helping because he just didn’t want to let me help. I worked hard when he didn’t have a plan. He kept saying that I was thinking wrong for planning.
I don’t understand how I could be wrong all the time. This is when I truly question. Am I wrong? Is it me? How can I be the love of his life when everything I do is wrong? Am I a bad person?

So...clearly if you are asking if you are a bad person would actually answer the question that you are indeed not a bad person. Why do I say that? You demonstrate that you are conscientious and have a conscience in general. Additionally, it shows you have empathy. So when I put that out there does that sound like a bad person to you?

To answer if you are wrong...this is where your mind is getting stuck because you were being manipulated. So the most important thing for you to do is to always keep your eyes wide open, question things, use critical thinking, and most importantly...live your truth!

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Sakura08]

And so now it’s been quite a while since we’ve separated. I know it was the right thing to do. But he goes through these periods of insisting that it’s wrong to be separated and we love each other and that we’ll be back together eventually. After that he’ll say that he’s not going to be back with me, that I’m unstable and he can’t plan a life with someone like me. Telling me that I could have just stayed. So many statements about if I didn’t do wrong then it wouldn’t be this way.
I know I did the right thing by leaving for my safety and sanity. But the love we had was so wonderful. I get stuck. I question myself and my choices. But I do see I am better off being apart.

[EyesUp]

Hi Sakura,

I know I'm stating the obvious:  Detaching takes time.

Continuing to be in contact slows down the process.

Just in case you haven't seen this, there is section here on detaching...

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0

A cautionary tale:

I went through similar cycles with my uBPDxw over a period of a few years.  Then we broke up and remained out of touch.  I dated a wonderful woman, and I'm sure she also dated.  At the end of that year, I heard from my then-ex-girlfriend.  She missed me.  She grew a lot.  She found a new therapist and finally addressed some old disappointments.  Just wanted to see how I was doing.  A week later...  it was so good to reconnect.  Would I like to meet for a coffee?  All my alarm bells were ringing, but I said yes.  Less than a month later, she was in my bed.  A year after that we were engaged.  Some of the old routines were still there, but familiarity, even when it's...  something off, can be somehow comforting.  Fast forward, we were married for 14 years.  Had three kids.  She continued to experience bouts of depression, anxiety, rages, hypersensivity to perceived criticism, conflicts with work, her family, my family, the kids' schools...  We are now divorced.

It's a cautionary tale.
 
Part of the reason I continue to participate here is to maintain clarity and avoid allowing myself to overemphasize the positives (there were many) or lose objectivity.

It sounds like you have some objectivity about your situation, but you ruminate a bit about what you've lost.  Does that sound right?

In my case, I try to look back on the relationship in terms of what I gained:  I've had a very good life so far, even though there have been hardships and challenges.  I love my kids, and they would not be here without my ex. I've come to understand a lot more about myself and how I ended up in a codependent relationship that almost cost me friendships and family - that will never happen again. I've become stronger. I'm grateful for my "second act" and looking forward to continuing my journey...

I wish the same for you!

[Sakura08]

I look forward and I try to heal myself. I go to therapy, I talk it out and try to see what I could have done better. Admitting my mistakes, seeing how we both could have done better. I wasn’t perfect but I know I’m not the only one at fault. It hurts to have to walk away. I know I made my choices, I thought about them and weighed them out. I felt every emotion, I was pushed to my limit. I attempted suicide, I cut myself. I wanted to be alone than in his presence. I wanted therapy, but he said we could love each other and be there for each other.
He kept blaming me, blaming it all on the affair. Blaming me for leaving, blaming me for him getting with someone else and having a baby with them. All this feels so wrong and backwards.
I have been recovering from all this for a long time. And I am always scared that I am the one who is wrong like he said.
I detach but then I question myself. I am trying so hard, I get so sad and scared. So unsure of myself. I can feel it on the days when it is good and I have done so well for myself. I have come back from rock bottom. I am proud of my progress.

[tina7868]

Hey Sakura!

I look forward and I try to heal myself. I go to therapy, I talk it out and try to see what I could have done better. Admitting my mistakes, seeing how we both could have done better. I wasn’t perfect but I know I’m not the only one at fault. It hurts to have to walk away. I know I made my choices, I thought about them and weighed them out. I felt every emotion, I was pushed to my limit. I attempted suicide, I cut myself. I wanted to be alone than in his presence. I wanted therapy, but he said we could love each other and be there for each other.
He kept blaming me, blaming it all on the affair. Blaming me for leaving, blaming me for him getting with someone else and having a baby with them. All this feels so wrong and backwards.
I have been recovering from all this for a long time. And I am always scared that I am the one who is wrong like he said.
I detach but then I question myself. I am trying so hard, I get so sad and scared. So unsure of myself. I can feel it on the days when it is good and I have done so well for myself. I have come back from rock bottom. I am proud of my progress.

It`s fruitful to objectively identify our own mistakes, with the intent on improving in the future. Nobody is perfect, we are all human beings going through life for the first time. It`s okay. That being said, I think it`s also important to balance this exercise with a whole lot of self love and compassion. Even if you were wrong in some aspects, find the grace within yourself to forgive these mistakes and move forward. It`s okay to feel sad and scared. Embrace and explore these feelings with gentle curiosity. Let them be.

When you learn to love yourself and soothe your own feelings, what other people say or do will lose it`s power over you, and you`ll be able to see more clearly what you can gain from hardships. For example, you sharing your story here has inspired a lot of people going through similar situations to yours, and so you have gained the ability to relate and empathize in this regard. There is indeed a lot for you to be proud of

[EyesUp]

He kept blaming me, blaming it all on the affair. Blaming me for leaving, blaming me for him getting with someone else and having a baby with them. All this feels so wrong and backwards.


That was my experience, too.

And for a while, I listened. Was it really my fault she had an affair? Was I somehow abusive? Was I responsible for her depression or anxiety?

In the end, the truth for me was simpler than I expected: 

I was a participant in the relationship, and I contributed to the dynamic.  The problems were not 100% my fault or due to anything I did - It always takes two. Measuring who had the larger share of responsibility was a fool's errand - in a healthy relationship, you work on it together and it's probably impossible to do a measurement...

I eventually accepted my limitations, my feelings, my truth - all of it.  And that included accepting a failure that I had been trying to avoid (a divorce) - while failing to recognize another (remaining together for the wrong reasons).  You can't imagine that relief that came with that understanding.

It sounds like you've done and are doing work, and have a sense of progress - that's a big deal. 

[Pook075]

He kept blaming me...

My story was similar as well, everything was seen as my fault and my ex was so positive in her mind, there was no sense in communicating or trying to work things out.  That's projection and it's very sad, but it's a part of BPD.

As EyesUp said, we all played a part in these outcomes...whether it was intentional or unknown.  There were definitely things we could have done better, but that's true for every relationship whether mental illness is involved or not. 

For me, the key is the basis for a marriage (or a relationship), growing together, choosing love, being quick to forgive, and always seeking to understand and support one another.  If that's not there by both people involved, then the rest will eventually fail. 

And it's not a burden that just one person can carry either; it has to be both people choosing love and growth together.  That's the part that took me the longest to figure out; it really wasn't about me or what I was willing to do.  Like they say, it takes two to tango.

[Sakura08]

It was always easier to blame me rather than try to work through things and listen to each other. I never wanted to even have an affair with someone else. But everyday I was told that’s what I was doing that I doubted my reality and snapped. I knew what I was doing was wrong, I felt no pleasure from it. But I didn’t know how much more I could keep proving myself in the relationship. I knew I was handling it wrong, and when things came to a head. It put a deeper rift between us. I tried to explain, I wanted to work through it. He reframed it as me blaming him for the affair. When all I wanted to do was explain why I felt the choice to do it. And how it hurt me as well. He could never put it behind us, even to this day he hasn’t. He tells me that I never loved him the whole time. That the other person got what he never had. Even though we were married. He would blame me, say it was only my fault. There’s nothing wrong with him. Then turn around and tell me he’s sorry for how he made me feel when I betrayed him. That he’s sorry for the way he is. That he’ll never get to be with me because I never loved him.
I can’t ever get my point across. I will always have a scarlet letter on my back. He pushes me away from his heartache and then pulls me back in. Simultaneously says he’s sorry but it’s my fault. I regret ever doing it. I regret most that I didn’t leave before hand so that I wouldn’t make this mistake in the first place.
I want to let go, but I am scared that he is right and that I never loved him. I go through so much confusion. Letting go feels good and scary. I’m slowly getting the courage to do and other days I regress.
How does one do it?

[Kashi]

Try to grab the idea that they are projecting their emotions and thoughts outside of themselves.

I think it's like they have an emotion and thought, and they don't know where it "belongs."

So, the more stressed they are, the more confusion and it ends up in a tangled mess and their reality is screwed.

Basically

I have heard the same conversations from BPD people.   The EXACT same wording.

When I started to research.  As per usual I don't just research I went into it. 

I spoke to all kinds of people with BPD.   I spent months talking to them.

It's like this blueprint they have to follow.

The number of times the same words come up.

I don't know if anyone has heard them use the word "monster" ?

Which is the "abuser" 

Sometimes they believe they are the abuser, you are, or someone else is. 

I don't even think all people with BPD were abused.  I know it's hereditary. 

You are not what they accuse you of. 

We are allowed to have thoughts at different times and we don't act on every thought.

I have may have thought about leaving my partner now and again but I didn't act on it.

I got accused of it.

They do a splatter attack.   Blame you for everything and they might hit on one or two things you had a thought about.

Now you are feeling guilty.   Then they add to it and now you are feeling increasing guilty.

Then they add to it and now you are owning it as a big deal.  Trying to persuade them it's not true.

Remember that accusation could be something THEY felt or thought, and they have displaced it elsewhere.

I even think they get their emotions mixed up with people.   I suspect my ex was confusing me and the person she cheated with.   Friends were saying to me (the dirty rotten cheater) who knew my partner was with someone, looked like me.
I didn't like to admit it but she kind of did.  When my ex was coming back to me all the time, I think she was mixing up her emotions and applying them to the incorrect person. 

I seriously think that.

It's a mess in their head

You don't want to get into person with BPD head.  It's very very messy.

Try and extract yourself from their mind.   Because you are absorbed in it just like me.

Make you crazy.  Get out of his head.

They second guess themselves ALL the time now you are.

Stop it...

[tina7868]

I go through so much confusion. Letting go feels good and scary. I’m slowly getting the courage to do and other days I regress.
How does one do it?

I`m right here with you on this one.

I think part of the way one does this is acceptance. Acceptance of the confusion, of the fear, and of the fact that the healing process is not linear. As you described, some days will appear like regression, and that`s okay too. You`ve been through a difficult experience. You can show grace and patience with yourself.

Another component to letting go is challenging, in a gentle way, your own beliefs and thoughts. If he is saying something, that doesn`t make it a fact. What matters is what you believe about yourself.

[Sakura08]

And now I feel like I’m left with this feeling that it’s me that needs to fix myself. Being treated like I’m the one who has destroyed the relationship when I just wanted safety and peace. I feel like I have been discarded. I went through so much to finally accept myself and my mistakes. To feel like I’m worth safety and peace.
Everything I say, everything, is turned around on me and actually said back to me, as if I was talking into a mirror. Like it was never his fault ever.
Now I don’t know if the love is worth letting go of. I truly am on the edge and not sure how to let go. To go on and get the divorce. To detach, go to the next phase of my life.

[Kashi]

We all need to "fix" ourselves. 

That doesn't mean we need to take on what a person with a mental illness tells us we have done wrong.

It's the mental illness talking most of the time. 

Own what you did wrong and push back what you didn't.

It's ok to say, sorry I don't accept that fault or blame.

[Sakura08]

I have owned what I did wrong. And I have pushed back on what I didn’t do wrong. I know I’m not completely to blame. But it’s hard being on the other side of the finger pointing. Always being wrong, I’m tired of being the bad guy. So tired of being wrong. I feel stupid a lot. But I am starting to like myself now. I don’t even know what would happen if he did accept his part in everything. I don’t think of him as much, but there are days when he tries to contact me and love bomb me with sorrys and promises of love. Wishing he was here or I was there. Then nothing.
So tired of being the bad guy.

[Kashi]

Tell me about it.   I didn't hear anything good about me for so long from my ex.  I was starved of validation.

She tells me she is sorry, will regret what she did for the rest of her life, sorry she hurt me.  Sorry she "abandoned" me.

Loves me, always did and still does.   

But tells me there is too much hurt now.  That is about the most logical thing she has said to me. 

But the actual detail is missing in the apology. 

That is the best she can do.  I need to accept that. 

Does it help and at least I got some kind of closure unlike others?  I don't know. Maybe. 

Her love was probably the best she could do as well for many years. 

She has no clue.  They aren't able to fully comprehend relationships and love. 

They can't even manage to stick to their own values or make decisions that keep themselves safe.

It takes all her effort just to work, take care of the basics in life.  That's all there is room for. 

My emotions are a just a burden to her. 

They seem to be better at a distance.  Get up close then the expectations pull them down.

They know they aren't giving what they should give in a relationship.  They just aren't able to do it.

Then that whole unworthy mindset kicks in, they feel guilty and need relief.

They can't resolve emotions or issues with you.   Everything you say they take a criticism.

You are tired of being the bad guy and they feel like that pretty much every day. 

It's projection.   What they feel they project and depending on how you deal with it, then it will impact on you.

They don't even know what are their emotions, or someone else's. 

That is a bizarre concept.  Think about that.  Imagine not knowing. 

They mind is a complete mess and the result is that you start to think like them. 

You can change that for yourself with work.   He probably will never be able to.

I think you sound like you are at the stage of being starved of validation for the positive of who you are.

Maybe

Catch your thoughts.   If they start to be negative, tell yourself a different and more positive version.

Try and eliminate some language from your thoughts.

"if only"
"I should have" 
"I regret"

Avoid thoughts of what an utter disaster this is.   Because there is a life beyond him.  It's not a disaster.  There is a life for you.

He could probably keep this up forever if you let him.  Any time he is bored, feeling lonely, got dumped, felt rejected, felt abandoned.   Are you going to be for that?













 










 

[Sakura08]

No, I won’t be here for that. I left for my safety and sanity, I offered him to come and start over with me. Since I was pregnant when I left. He gave me every reason why he couldn’t. And then he told me that he has a girlfriend and then eventually he told me she was also pregnant and he can’t get out of it so he can never come to be with us.
Telling me such confusing things.
I’m tired of being the bad guy. And I don’t want to be here for that. It breaks my heart so much.

[Kashi]

I'm so sorry I didn't know you were pregnant.  That would be a very hard situation.

I can tell you what borderline fathers are like because my ex's father is BPD.   Not any better than they are in any relationship.  Their selfishness knows no bounds.  He won't be there for a child.  There will be no love given in any meaningful way.  Essentially you will have two children, one being a very dangerous adult. 

The words "he can’t get out of it" are familiar because that is exactly what my ex said of the new person.  Oh, hello she did dump them WHEN she realized she nearly blew her career and could be exposed by this person.   They have plans in the pipeline, but they expect to be left, or will need to leave.  Right now, the woman he is with is the best plan he has.  For now.

There is going to be two of his children in the world with no father. 

Why do you keep on saying that you are tired of being the "bad guy"? 

I don't understand.   

You know they project what they think and feel on to you.  The shame, the guilt, the hurt, and the horrible thoughts. 

You know most of what they say is an untruth?   They don't even know what the truth is most of the time.

I think you should stop punishing yourself, he did enough of that to last a lifetime.   

It's horrible.  It's heartbreaking.  It's crazy making.  It's soul destroying.

It helps if you don't contact them or allow them to contact you.   The crazy part disappears, and you start to feel somewhat normal but very hurt.   I think you know you don't want him back just like I know I don't want my ex back.  You know what they don't want to come back either.   Perhaps if they are desperate.  I think they reach out when they feel desperate just to see if you are still there and an option. 

You tried to love past a disorder.  It can't work. 

I'm really sorry you are in pain.   I don't know how many steps I am past the stage you are going through.  Probably not many.  Do not contact him.  Don't ruminate on the relationship.  Focus on the now and small steps.  You can't manufacture a future out of nowhere when you are hurt.   Start with one hour of focusing on you and not thinking of him.  Build on that.

I can't tell you how much pain I was in.   I dropped heaps of weight, couldn't sleep, work.  I was in a really bad way and couldn't tell anyone.   They don't understand.   

That gets better. 

The confusion gets better.    Periods of anger gets better.  Then the hurts fades just a bit as time goes on.

But if you let them in your life, that process will be limited and keep you in the pain. 

You had a relationship like me, it was over before it started.   We just didn't know that. 

They do love but it's not in an adult way and influenced by their disorder.  They just move on the next.  There's not much space in their mind for ex's.  They can barely look after themselves.  That takes up all their focus.

[Sakura08]

It was just exhausting always being the one who was wrong. Never loving him enough, never giving him enough attention. Him not being enough for me to be with. Over and over, thinking wrong, acting wrong, allocating my time wrong, just everything you could think of I was doing wrong. Constantly having the finger pointed at me, constantly being told I’m not as committed as he was.
Being his shrink when I couldn’t help myself. Over extending myself with my empathy. Just, mentally exhausting and I would always be the bad guy. He needed to be smothered with love even during arguments. Anything less than that wasn’t enough and therefore not committed enough.
I do take it slowly, it’s been a long time. I have lived so much more and come up from rock bottom. I have driven for hours, gone through so much in counseling. I make progress, and I don’t think of him as much, until he breaks through my no contact wall. Usually with baiting. Then it’s a predictable cycle.
This has helped me see that I’m not alone.

[Sakura08]

It brought me down so much. When at all was I loved? When was I good? How could I be good if all I did was wrong? This I also have a hard time coming back from. I accepted him inside and out, but he would tell me that I’m not the “person he knows.” Leaving me no room to grow or change. Always have to be devoted no matter what, that a normal girlfriend would take care of him, instead of me who leaves. But I know that’s unhealthy behavior. I feel good being separated, but I still have a part that’s having a tough time letting go. I don’t know what it is. What is it? And why is it still there?

[Kashi]

I guess it is different for everyone. 

I had hope.  I believed with my whole heart. 

That is hard to just close that off, well unless you are a borderline, then it seems easy. 

It's hard to work out what was actually who they are, and what wasn't. 

If they drop their mask, it isn't pretty.   I feel bad even saying that.  I wanted her to feel loved and beautiful.

But there is a part of her that is not either of those things.  I think they know that.   They cover it with a facade. 

I feel sorry for her.  But in saying that she certainly doesn't feel sorry for me and was very cruel when she left.

I think I started to feel that my love kept her afloat, my love kept her able to have a facade, and my love was the only love that existed.

So, I have my love intact.  All I need to do is feel it independently from her.  I own it. 

Reclaim your love.   Get it back.  Get back "you" 

Start feeling who you are. 

[Kashi]

I spoke to this borderline woman in a massive psychosis.  She was doing the emotional roller coaster for ages.

She gets medicated, and it stops the rollercoaster.  She feels more in control. 

This woman was super intelligent, she could write and express herself.  She had a good job and kids.

I wanted to know how it felt, and this woman had the depth to give me answers.

She was incredibly honest and raw.   We spoke in private for some months.  Then I watched her speak openly to other pwbpd.  She was callous and felt nothing for anyone.  She said she just put on her role that she needed to and none of it was her.  She said she felt she was in a play. 

We need to face the truth.   They have a serious mental illness.  A person who at times feels nothing for anyone, including her kids is a dangerous person.   They might not feel like that all the time, but they do all experience it.

Hate...and anger.

That is why you need to let go.   

[Kashi]

Come with me inside their mind, for a moment.  I don't want to go there.  But if it helps you.

Imagine.  You feel utterly worthless, unlovable and a waste of space.

That isn't hard to imagine because that is how they made you feel.   Because in their minds you made them feel that way.  You said something and they picked out all the negative words, reassembled them and put in a context you didn't intend.

You didn't hold his hand that time, you walked in front of him, you didn't say sorry in the right tone.

You didn't love him.

You said no to sex that one time.  You had a good reason. 

Rejection.

I could not even go to the bathroom to have a cra+ in peace. There she was.  I would say can I just have a moment.

Rejection.

You don't want to watch the same TV show

Rejection

You forgot a kiss.

Rejection

You said I'm sorry or I love you in the wrong tone.

Rejection

It's not perfect.   It's your fault.  They feel rejected and unlovable.

Your fault

You must be punished.  You are keeping them there and they can't be without you.

There is resentment.

After all they gave the best sex they could.   He was a good boy.  He did everything for you.

Now they are reliving the rejection of the past, as a child.  It doesn't matter if they lived trauma or not.  Their minds say they are wrong and that was told to them by their parents, their school, society.  They are wrong.

Yes, they are quite often "wrong" because parts of their brain are not developed.  Logic is missing.

They learn other ways to cope and behavior forms.  Now it's embedded.

It's ok to lie and hurt people.   People hurt them, why not. 

Sex is a tool.   

They are drowning emotionally all the time.  Holding their emotions in.  Because they know they are unacceptable.

They need to have someone to snuggle, and hold them, like a child.   They know their emotions are immature.   They know their emotions flip in an instant.  But whoever gives them that gratification at that time will get their attention.

You give them adult love.   They don't know what that is.   They don't see it.   

They don't see or care in an adult way, or give sex in an adult way, or love in an adult way. 

They want to be kept safe, like a child. 

Even children grow to take the hard knocks and see their parents as separate entities, with a name, with their own emotions, as an individual.   Children learn the world is not all great.  There is hurt.  It's not a fantasy.

They don't.   They want to be loved in that perfect state which is impossible.

You hurt them because you didn't kiss them right.

An example.  I was walking with my niece and holding her hand.  She was maybe 3.  We were walking around a lake.  I had a blanket on my shoulder.  She wanted to walk close to the lake edge.  For one second, I let go of her hand, to adjust the blanket and before I knew it, she was the in the lake, I was fast because I grabbed her before she went under.  I will never forget her little face when she looked up at me and said, "you let go of my hand".  The utter despair and hate on her face.  That I was there to protect her, and she trusted me.   I let go of her hand.  That is all that mattered. 

That is how they think, day in and day out. 

They will punish you for letting go of their hand.  So, to speak.

So, when it comes time to find someone else who will hold their hand in perfect glory.  You will be nothing, because you didn't do your "job"

Do you understand?

[BigEasyHeart]

You said something and they picked out all the negative words, reassembled them and put in a context you didn't intend.

Now they are reliving the rejection of the past, as a child. 

You give them adult love.   They don't know what that is.   They don't see it.   

I cannot say all things there fit my experience exactly but these three resonated. I found out after I was "discarded" that my ex had been filtering minute details of our relationship through traumatic events of her childhood (e.g., words or even a tone were perceived negatively and seen as similar to the childhood event). This would happen and boom, they were re-experiencing the pain they felt back then and acting out of anger towards me as the one who caused it.

I wish they had shared that this was happening with me but they did not. It might have changed a lot of things for both of us. It is massively confusing when you are on the receiving end of this kind of behavior and don't know why it is happening. It still affects me to this day. It is real trauma that gets passed down to the partner and takes time to work though.

Now my job is to work on myself so I don't pass it on to the next person and so I don't wind up in the same situation again myself.

Wishing you peace and healing.

[Kashi]

You start to find out just how much things were misinterpreted.   My ex said it herself.  Because we didn't communicate.  However, even then it's almost impossible to communicate, because they are getting elevated.  The expectation is you allow them to get elevated and listen to it without comment, even if it isn't correct.  To make them feel validated.  That is not the way to communicate or have a relationship.  I know for sure they hear parts of sentences; negative words and I know for sure they mix up events.

I am almost certain they mix up people and emotions.  Apply one emotion to the incorrect person and therefore a thought.

They can often start speaking back to you, what you said to them a few weeks before and start owning it as their own thought. 

They are incredibly influenced by people's emotions and behavior around them. 

If it was just one issue, maybe you can deal with it.  Maybe two issues.

They have multiple issues stacked on each other.   

You would not have been able to change anything.

Negative or positive thinking / all or nothing / good or bad
No emotional logic
Unsure how they want to be intimate.
Distorted thinking and paranoia
Disassociation - numbness - emptiness - void
Fear and trauma responses.
Pleasing to be liked
Lies
Lack of empathy to the point where they show narcissistic behavior, which only gets worse.
Selfish behavior and disregard
Boredom and indecision
Fixations and other obsessive thoughts
Anger and resentment.
Limited emotional communication skills

That is the basics.

Wherein that mess could you ever try to make that ok for them and yourself? 

They do not know how they love you and cannot explain their love or connect on an adult level (they fake it) They can only love you in a very basic way.   They all say they love intensely.  Children can love intensely as well.  Children feel everything intensely sometimes and little worlds sometimes come crashing down.   

It's not a measure of love.   You ask them to elaborate, and they can't.   They might be able to parrot what someone else said about love. 

Letting go I think is a very complicated process.  Firstly, you realize there was only one adult in the relation who was loving as an adult.  I think they kick some type of internalized maternal instinct, without you fully realizing.  It's feels like sending a 5-year-old out in the world alone, but they are adults. Kicks in your empathy.  As children/adults they are capable of inflicting great damage, and you have to comes to terms with what they did to you.  Sometimes they can seem capable, smart and focused. 

On top of that you received the motherload of projection. 

I just left her with my best advice.   To make decisions that keep her safe and secure. Don't be "that" person you will only hurt yourself.  Keep walking toward the light and don't go down the dark road.

That is all I can do.   I won't know if she "made it" because I will never see her again. 

I gave 15 years.   

[Sakura08]

Thank you Kashi, your response has made so much sense. That, I can understand. I was never ok to say no because he needed me. He needed to be smothered with attention even when we were fighting. When I needed some space, or when I needed alone time. He took it as me not loving him. We couldn’t be separate because we were a couple. I know understand why I was always wrong and also the bad guy. It helps me to let go more and more.

[Kashi]

You got it.

You also did many, many things you didn't even know he was upset about.

Also, his interpretation is not correct in many cases.

I was completely shocked when my partner started to list why she left me and what I did wrong.

She had some outrageous allegations.  When she calmed down and I could talk to her, you wouldn't believe the kind of hurt she felt and saved for years.

I mean seriously.  Stuff like I walked in front of her.  I might have a few times in 15 years, I am sure.

In her head that was so hurtful.  They also say "all the time" when something was a couple of times.

Honestly you can't win.  I don't mean maybe or maybe not, or if I did this differently.

I mean you cannot win.  

You would never be able to adapt.  It would take your rights away. 

You would have to be a loving robot.   A perfect one.  One that doesn't mind being accused of everything and anything. 

But underlying it all.   The way they are able to hurt you and lack of empathy. 

Impaired empathy.   It's quite severe and scary.   








 

[Kashi]

Just to be fair.  I don't know about men BPD but I know woman.  I can see how they can be taken advantage of.

When they are in the idealization phase they don't see motives of people. 

So, I am sure many do get treated badly. 

We wrong know right from wrong.   I know the times I did hurt her.   I know what I did right. 

I treated her overwhelming with love and compassion.   I am sorry for those times I should have done better. 

But I told her I can only own what I did right or wrong, I can't own what I didn't do.

She will have to reconcile that herself.  I can't help her with that. 

Just like she will have to reconcile her own actions and how she hurt me.   

Take back your own thoughts.   Stop thinking in their disordered way. 

Brings strength. 

[yellowbutterfly]

Skaura,

You are NOT the bad guy even if your person accused you of it. They are mentally ill - do not forget that.

My xUBD is a male and was not only severely disordered/mentally ill but also highly abusive. The level of his illness was shocking and the abuse I suffered gave me PTSD that required intense treatment.

From the other side of things, I feel so grateful to be rid of him and his abuse. Please know that it gets better the further you get away (if that is what you want). For several weeks, I had a hard time detaching from the FOG of the relationship. I now know I was trauma bonded and guilted into staying. I kept thinking IF only I could change him - the reality is you cannot change anyone and a person who is severely personality disordered is most likely never going to stop the behaviors they exhibit.

@Kashi, I agree, some of the things that "hurt" xUBPD were outrageous and delusional. I laughed once at a squirrel in a park and he thought I was mocking him. The paranoia was so intense and his view of the world just not real sadly.

These might be the most helpful statements I've read lately, as I reflect on my own situation...

Take back your own thoughts.   Stop thinking in their disordered way. 

Brings strength.

It is so accurate. Do not blame yourself for falling into their delusions. Instead, surround yourself with rational people and step away from the disordered.

I mean you cannot win.  

You would never be able to adapt.  It would take your rights away. 

[Kashi]

@Sakura08 

We all understand what happened and how you feel.  You are pregnant and that must be a little frighting.  If you want to express yourself here, nobody will judge you.   

I think we can support each other, and other times, we need to speak our truth in the cold light of day. 

As much as that feels sometimes to me, slightly callous.   Somethings can't be glossed over.   

@yellowbutterfly  The FOG!   I know that feeling.  To me it felt like I had just spilt in two and one part of me threw a bucket of ice-cold water over the other and woke me up to what had been happening.   I simply lost track of our relationship and the objectives.  She wasn't violent physically, but the behavior is abusive and oppressive.  More so directed at me as time went on.   That moment when you realize it was emotional abuse is a sickening feeling.  You see the manipulation. 

I see people with BDP talk about the monster within.  I know clearly now there were half a dozen times where she projected that on to me and caused anxiety.  When you are in that state of high anxiety you aren't functioning properly, and this allows them to control the relationship.  Something needs to happen to break that pattern.   

@Sakura08  I can't give you specific advice.  I am not a professional.  I can give you my experience and my opinion. 

I would seek out a professional who knows BDP who can communicate with you and bring some clarify to the behaviors.  It is good to have someone who understand you, and BDP.

I personally would see your BDP partner with someone else as a positive.

You have a window he is not focused on you.   You are married.   I would start that process now to amicably dissolve the marriage.  I would keep pushing gently forward until you can get it finalized. 

Because they can make it very hard for you.  I was stuck in our house and life.  If it was up to her, I would not have left because in her mind I am her property.  To come back to when she may feel the need.   Not an individual with my own thoughts, fears, emotions, issues, hurt etc.  Her property who loved and supported her until I wasn't needed.

Anything else in my mind about the love she felt for me, is not the same as the love I felt for her. 

She does not know what love is.   I had to explain it all to her the best way I could.   Being in love and the transition to love, how you get your needs met in a healthy way.  She would speak back some strange analogy to understand what I was talking about. 

I didn't know she didn't have a clue, I guess because she was feeding back what she thought I wanted to hear.   Doing what she thought would please me.  Not emotional pleasing, just doing things for me which don't make up for emotional content. 

I have empathy for her that she is oblivious and because of that, a target. 

But also, her behavior makes her a real threat to herself and others.

You can't rationalize that for someone else.  You can't love it better, you can't grow it, you can't support it by enabling.

The kindest action for both is to step out of it and keep moving forward.   

Their black and white thinking splits a normal person's brain in half after a while.  We are not supposed to think in those two extremes.  Sometimes I could feel it physically in my brain.  That split in my brain.  The thoughts.  Because that is how they are operating, and you are trying to bring logic to it.  Hurt my mind.  The confusion it brings. 

What helped me was I did an online CBT course.  That is the same course they do.  So, it made sense to me to do it.

https://www.moodgym.com.au   it's free and https://www.ecouch.com.au

Challange your thoughts.   I also found it was useful to understand the way they think.  What parts of my thoughts I always had and never realized and what parts were created because of the continual contact with my partner. 

So, when you have a thought, you can instantly recognize it, give it and name and choose to change the narrative. 

Retrain your brain.....

[Sakura08]

Thank yo so much Kashi, that really helped me to understand. I appreciate you breaking it down for me. I was never allowed to say no or have alone time. Even when we would be in an argument I would still have to smother him with attention. Which was so taxing on me emotionally. Now I see why the constant need for attention was something I couldn’t live up to.
I really feel better in letting go more and more each day.

[Sakura08]

Sorry I thought my reply wasn’t posted. Well I guess it’s a double thanks haha.

[Sakura08]

I couldn’t understand because it felt so fanatical. So manic and I didn’t understand why. I could feel some red flags coming up, but I was always reassured it was just me and our past. Talking about healthy things, calmly and rationally was an alien feeling for him. It would just turn into screaming matches and then he would compare it to what people did to him in the past.
I could feel that it was something more, something inside of him. And now I feel better with my counseling and cbt diaries, and all the resources I have to help myself. And thanks to this forum, I know I’m not alone, other people have experienced this as well.
All I want is to calmly talk things out. But it’s too far gone and that was never achievable. So now with everyday I see these threads and I feel so much better.

[Kashi]

My Pleasure, if you found some things helpful.  We are here to support each other.  Who else would understand the detail, if not someone who lived it.

The detail is so complex and hard to understand. 

They can't have an emotion-based conversation without feeling you are being critical, negative or don't love them.

Inside they feel shame, worthless, guilty and have a fragile ego.  It doesn't take much to wound their ego.   

Then they put up an emotional wall and you can't get through it.  They start to blame, project to protect themselves.  They do this on the flick of a switch. 

I have seen the emotional wall.   Physically I can see it in her body.  The tension, sometimes the rejection feeling, sometimes her actions as payback.  She sits behind the wall blocking out emotions and me.  She is dispersing her shame/hurt/guilt on to me.  I can see it happening in front of my eyes.

The shame/hurt/guilt is them.  I often wonder if there is anything more inside them, than that.   It looks like a lost world inside them, and they don't know where to find the fragments of who they are, to make one whole person. 

Yes, you know when it has gone too far, there is too much hurt.  They are not capable of fixing a relationship which is one of the reasons why they run.  Start again for as long as that lasts, hoping something will change.  Sounds like he has done this quite a few times.   

I always thought she was a gentle, beautiful person. 

Now I realized that was me.  Which sounds weird.

It wasn't her.   She played the facade, and I played it for real.  That makes me sad and kind of empty. 

Sad for both of us.   But I still have that inside me and I refuse to be a bitter person with hate.

I'm not living my life like that.   

No contact clears your head.   I still have trouble sleeping. 

So, you do CBT.  Good on you.   Try and catch your thoughts and use CBT to change them. 

Thanks for talking with me.  It helps me as well. 

[EyesUp]

I really feel better in letting go more and more each day.

Just wanted to say:  It's usually a long journey, but this is an indication that you're on the right path.  Keep going... 

[Sakura08]

Thank you so much. I have never had a break up be so hard. One the difficult things is to know you walked away for your safety and sanity. Only to have them tell you that they could never be with you because you’re a liar and a cheater and they could never be with someone that’s unstable. It is confusing and partly infuriating that it’s turned around on me. And it distorted my own view of myself this whole time.

[EyesUp]

So often in these relationships, accusations are confessions.

You have the power to give yourself permission to stop listening, stop paying attention, and stop giving consideration to an unreliable and likely abusive source. 

[yellowbutterfly]

The feelings of being told you are abusive, crazy, or it’s your fault are so horrible. It’s projection and yet it erodes your sense of self.

I was none of these things but felt so broken from being told them constantly.

Consider the source. Rebuild your self esteem. You are worth it.

[Sakura08]

I get counseling and I feel so much better about myself. I slowly tell myself it’s ok. And sometimes I feel like I am the one who caused it all like he said.
He cries to me, tells me he loves no one else but me. But he can’t ever believe me or what I say because of all the cheating I did. He loves me but it’s still and will always be all my fault. Trying to contact me like it’s ok. Then flies off the handle and tell me that he’s living the life I chose for him. That he took the hints I gave him, and that I pushed him away.
I wanted the opposite, I wanted us to come together.
Even typing this out I remembered the crazy confusion I would have in my head. Questioning my feelings and my sanity.

[Sakura08]

Today I felt good, but then I got cyber harassed by his current partner. I feel terrible, he told me his girlfriend is “gonna harass you”
Saying he loves me and he’s sorry. I feel incredibly stupid and now very terrible. I can not comprehend all this. And what feels worse is that he puts it on me as if I could cause him to lose everything to be with me. But I don’t even want that anymore. It feels like chaos, which I’m trying to stay away from. But the chaos is on me and because of me? I get afraid that I will start to believe that it’s my fault again. I don’t want to regress again.

[EyesUp]

Hi Sakura,

The title of this thread is 100% honest - rescanning the thread shows that you're conflicted, trying to leave, and having a hard time doing it.

Completely understandable.

It's impossible to go "no contact" when you still have logistics to work out, and also when your emotions remain engaged, provoked, reactive.

Here's a suggestion:  If we take this thread at face value and accept that you truly do want to "leave permanently," it might be helpful to shift your focus to what the future might look like.  i.e., instead of thinking about the new partner or whatever provocation du jour is concocted, think about what's next for you.

Have you read about the path to no contact?  I realize it's not practical to simply flip a switch and get there today - but reading about the process and keeping that path in mind might be helpful:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way

Another article that might be worth a look is here:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

If you decide to read this last one, keep an objective, critical eye.  Some of the themes are just as likely to make any of us want to try again as to find a way to detach.  But the themes do describe the traps to watch out for, even if only some of them relate to what you're feeling.

Ultimately, the best thing you can do to diminish what you're feeling now is to try to change the channel in your head.  It's the weekend - go for a walk, a drive, try a new bakery, call an old friend, watch a movie - anything really, other than dwelling on the conflict / new partner / etc.

If you want to put this stuff behind you, on one level it's simple:  stop feeding the fire by giving it fuel - your attention.

I hope this helps in some way.

[Kashi]

It's not your fault love is never enough for him.

It's not your fault he is now emotionally cheating with the person he is with.   Don't become a part of it, so it is then something you will be responsible for.   

It's not your fault he can't regulate his own emotions and keep his mind balanced and healthy.

Imagine this, you were still together.  One day you realize he can't be intimate because he needs the initial allure, game playing, infatuation to experience some type of emotion.  Then eventually sex will become robotic, because there is no real substance.  Then he will start blaming you for his lack of emotional depth-experience. 

It's not your fault he is not capable of taking care of his own needs, while caring about yours. 

It's not your fault he is ruining someone else life instead of seeking the help he needs and pulling himself and someone else into the quagmire of despair.

BPD like to say their actions are not intentional.   That could be said if they are young and tried out a couple of relationships.  But it seems to me as they experience life, get older that is just an excuse.  Because they do know what they are doing and the hurt they can potentially cause.  Many of them express this very well across a whole range of communication platforms.   

It's not your fault he can't control his actions or doesn't care about the damage he does.

You are responsible if you enable his behavior and allow him to hurt you more.

[Kashi]

Oh and...

You are the only person I speak to, who makes me want to stay strong for myself. 

While I am "willing" you to stay strong, I am speaking to myself as well. 

They find a guilt weakness.   Could have a small,  very small,  a fraction of truth to it. 

They find it and use it.  They are very good at it. 

It's about control and emotional power.   Because they need something to keep you there.  They know at some point they will be called out.   

[Sakura08]

No, I don’t want to be part of it. I don’t want to enable this behavior. Everything he does is my fault, everything that has gone wrong is my fault. But it’s not, no, I am not the cause. I cry and doubt myself. But I didn’t do this. No matter what ways he words it to me.
He knows I love him but I don’t think he can accept himself.

[Kashi]

I do the same. 

Cry and now only sometimes doubt myself.   

My ex told me how much she loves me,  thinks about me all the time, regrets what happened. 

I don't know if that is true or not.   When someone has a disorder and often they don't know what is true or not.

Because they are fluctuating between positive and negative emotions.

There comes a day you just can't place that kind of belief in a person who cannot maintain their emotional state to have an ongoing loving and content experience with you.   

They are relying on you to keep them feeling loved and happy.   That is not realistic for them. 

They are pissed off about it.   Deep down they know there is something "wrong" with them and what is happening around them is largely and often created by them.  However to face that core wound without feeling innately worthless is almost impossible for most BPD.  In my BPD travels and communication,  I have maybe seen one of two BPD actually have a balanced grip on who they are,  the issues they face,  the behaviors, the hurt they can cause to themselves and others.

One or two.   Out of thousands. 

You are simply a vessel to place the blame to,  so they don't have to deal with that wound.

When they try they don't open it up.   It's a very superficial look at themselves.  Sometimes my ex is blaming herself for everything and that isn't realistic.  It's more like "I give up" it's all my fault. 

They can't balance their thoughts and emotions.  It takes them making that first step into therapy,  which many can't do.  Then it takes a lot of intelligence, insight,  focus and acceptance to make that therapy work for them.  Just to be able to identify what emotions they are feeling and why.   Way too hard for many of them.  The easier way is to just keep doing what they are doing with someone else to hold off the hurt for a while,  then move on and ignore the impact they have.   

It's a selfish, futile existence. 

One they choose. 

Not one you have to choose.

You are allowed to love him.  I love my ex like nothing else on this earth.  It wasn't all "bad" 

But I cannot allow myself to be hurt.   I know for a FACT I kept her pretty stable. 

The effort I had to put in to make that happen was exhausting.   The moment I took my eye off the ball she felt she was being abandoned.

It would have happened at some point.

How "real" is it if I am the "keeper of love" and there to remind her it exists.  If I am not then it doesn't exist?

You can't make that "work" 

Sometimes you are having a conversation with a distorted perspective.  I would find myself fighting for my integrity and truth.

Where what I needed to do and I did sometimes, is simply say that is not true.   

I can only take blame for what I did do,  I can't take blame for what she did,  or what I didn't do.

I was taking on every single word she said to me.   That is a heavy burden to take on. 

You don't need to fight for your truth. 

You just need to calmly speak it to yourself,  feel it inside your body not your mind. 

Hard to explain it. 

This stuff messes up your mind and kind of fragments you.  It fragments them and they have spun it on to you.

I find if I feel the whole me, starting with sensing what my body is telling me,  I start to feel like I am taking back complete ownership of me.   Rather than starting with a thought.  If that results in a massive sobbing session then so be it.  It will pass. My body is telling me what I need.  It is saying that it needs space,  for me to be kinder to myself,  that I am depleted and need to have moments of where I feel connected with the world and myself again.   

What my ex does is not under my control.  How she lives her life,  makes decisions that hurt her or others, is not under my control.   Her love,  what that is and who she gives it to and how,  is not under my control.  How she hurts is not under my control.  She will hurt long after I am gone, in exactly the same way,  unless she does something about it. 

I do have control over my choices,  how I want to live,  how I want to love, my thoughts and my emotions.

[SinisterComplex]

No, I don’t want to be part of it. I don’t want to enable this behavior. Everything he does is my fault, everything that has gone wrong is my fault. But it’s not, no, I am not the cause. I cry and doubt myself. But I didn’t do this. No matter what ways he words it to me.
He knows I love him but I don’t think he can accept himself.

Sakura, the hardest part here is that you have to separate what is said and accept it for what it is...an expression of anger...not a personal shot or dig at you. Granted his words may be coming out that way, but try to have the mind set that he does not know how to express his emotions so they come out as angry and mean words and they have to be placed somewhere so he chooses you because you are an emotional anchor. Make sense?

His emotions and his issues are his own to deal with and they are not your responsibility...that is perhaps one of the harder lessons for most people to learn.

When I mention being firm and indifferent this is why. You are firm in your responses to potential boundary breaches and you are indifferent to the emotional outbursts that happen letting them roll off you like a rain drop off a rain coat because you know better than to take emotionally charged words personally.

I hope this helps you.

In the meantime please be kind to you and please take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Sakura08]

Thank you all so much, this thread has helped me so much. It has helped me cope. I left him when he had a crisis and in the crisis he separated his kids from mine and left us in an apartment that actually lost power because he didn’t pay the light bill. I was left by myself scared and hurting from helping him in his crisis by putting him in the hospital. The way he attacked me when he was released and finding out I was pregnant solidified my decision to move out. I came back to my hometown and picked myself up from rock bottom. I really wanted to fix myself and learn how to better communicate. What I could do better. But because I left there was nothing I could do or say because he wouldn’t listen.
I came back with nothing and now I’m in a good place. Crazy enough I shared my journey with him and told him he had a place here with me if he wanted to make that choice. Because I still loved him and believed in our love. I still wanted him with me. But he gave me every answer but yes. He used school as an excuse. Then he said he was in another relationship because he thought I wanted to be done and he was confused. I wasn’t sure but after his actions I started to see that it was time to start letting go. He continued to contact me regardless of me blocking him. And I let the thoughts back in. Then he tells me she’s pregnant, so I let go more and more. And with this it just jabs the knife in more.
I’ve done so much work on myself. Learning to love myself and feel better for leaving. And all this has been like a lifeline when I can’t get to therapy. I am so thankful for every comment and supportive wish.

[tina7868]

Hey Sakura08  ! We`re all rooting for you! It takes a lot of courage to share your vulnerabilities and experiences, and you've helped many others feel less alone in their own struggles.

You've worked hard to heal and improve yourself, and that's something to be incredibly proud of! Remember that your worth and value aren't defined by someone else's choices, nor their actions.

Keep shining your light. You got this, and you deserve all the happiness life has to offer! Remember to be gentle with yourself and take care of your mental health.

[Sakura08]

That’s also why it’s been tough for me to let go. I had a lot of love left to give. But it’s hard being the bad guy in the relationship. Saying he’s scared to be with me because of all the trauma I caused but he loves me and wants us to be together still. I pull away and he pulls me back in then says that it’s me, because of me and my actions. So now the feelings of letting go get stronger and I feel comfortable with letting parts of it go in my own time.

[tina7868]

Saying he’s scared to be with me because of all the trauma I caused but he loves me and wants us to be together still. I pull away and he pulls me back in then says that it’s me, because of me and my actions.

It`s helpful, and shows a lot of reflection, that you recognize this pattern. Recognizing patterns allows us to change them.

So now the feelings of letting go get stronger and I feel comfortable with letting parts of it go in my own time.

You put it so well. There is a balance between pushing yourself, growing stronger and more resilient, and being patient and kind to yourself as you take things at a pace that works for you. It sounds like you`re striking that balance. Keep going you`ve got this!

[Sakura08]

He always was able to tell me how much it’s my fault. How I left him, he needed me but I left, I cheated on him because I never loved him. How I made him feel ugly and unwanted. That he can’t trust me and that he’s scared of being with me again. He changed his whole life for me and I didn’t do the same.
That’s a lot of tough things to hear, on a daily basis. And then to turn around and say that’s he’s scared to lose me. That he can’t move on because I am the love of his life. He doesn’t want to love anyone else because I’m still his wife.
He wants to still come back together at some point, but he can’t be with me because he can’t build a life with someone unstable as me.
Telling me he wishes he was here with me, but if he was to be with me it would cost him everyone.
The thing is, I never asked him to be back together. I never told him that I wanted to work it out. Yes I do want him here, as a sad lovesick wish. But I never said I wanted to work things out.
I can see me being put on a pedestal and then swiftly knocked off from it, sometimes in the same sentence.
Blaming me for us being separated when he wants to fight for it.
It’s such a swing between extremes. Yes No Yes No, over and over.
I’m the one that brings a solution, but it’s wrong. He’s a swinging pendulum and I’m the wall he smashes into.
Feels so old and boring. I thought because he was older than me that he would be the mental experience and maturity. But I felt like I was constantly having to be mentally aware and mature for the both of us.
I’m sad yes, because I still had all my life to love someone I believed in. That I married without question, I was committed for sure. But it turned into this, and I just couldn’t get it out of my head that it was all my fault like he said. But in the books I’ve read, and counseling and this place that has helped me see that it’s not just because he can’t cope, that there was something deeper. Yes I have faults and could have handled so many things differently and I take blame when I am the one responsible. But I’m not the sole bad guy. I really see that, the patterns. How it’s helping me take the rose colored glasses off.
The in-depth and descriptive responses about his thought process makes sense. Because he always “needed” me. Even when we were screaming at each other, he wanted cuddles. The fear of abandonment. That he never wanted to be alone, I was the one on the pedestal and now I’m the villain.

[Sakura08]

At this point as well, I just want to be alone. I’m an introvert and I love my own company. I love my silence and thoughts that are my own. I enjoyed life quietly and went on adventures alone. Before this, I knew who I was and I worked hard to go from surviving to thriving. I don’t get why this break up is so volatile. So hot and cold. I’m usually calm and level headed. And now I have to tell myself that he didn’t choose me. Which sends me into a depression and I go through stages of grief, even though it’s been a year, it still is taking time.

[Kashi]

It's not unusual feel some type of guilt when you leave a relationship.  You know by leaving you are causing some pain for another person, even though it's in both best interests.  If you felt nothing you wouldn't be human. 

BDP sense guilt in a person, and they tend to leverage it when they get the chance.   

Maybe keep that in context. 

In a way he is right.  One way.   The relationship is not safe for him but also you.

You can't untangle the why with him because his thinking is distorted. 

But you can agree on the fundamental of, it isn't safe.   You don't need to take on the "why" and the blame.

Perhaps like every other relationship there are things you wish you didn't say, didn't do, or did do.

Like I keep telling myself, own what you did do, disown what you didn't do and know your rights. 

You have rights.  One of them is your ability to own your own mistakes, not have someone dictate and fault transfer what they are.   You can listen but if it's way off mark you can't absorb it.

Break you down into nothing.



 

[Sakura08]

That’s what I felt, that I was nothing. Nothing good, because of all the bad things he said I did and who he said I was. That he doesn’t know me and never did. I’m not being the person he fell in love with. Just over and over again. And I believed him, until now. Now I feel good. I’m just conflicted still about letting go, which is happening cumulatively.

[Kashi]

I go through that letting go feeling every day.

Then if you try and understand what happened and the person, (the why) it gets confusing.

Painful

Because we are not supposed to think within their mind "space".  They are ill. 

They gave us someone who we could fall in love with and relate to. 

I feel parts of what my ex showed me as her authentic self, I saw as lost.  I could see her searching for herself sometimes.

Under that is a lot of anger and frustration.   Because we can't relate to them.  They feel like they are wrong, because they are.  Their logic is wrong, and they mostly live in a lie and distortion.   Never trusting themselves or anyone else.

It's a very sad situation and there are no winners.

Who do you want to "save"?   You can't save him, and it isn't your role to do that.

You can't have a relationship because you feel obligation and guilt.

Only he can save himself and it sounds like he is sitting in full denial.   Unless he can take accountability without it killing his core, nothing will change.   Even if he got to that stage where he started to have any insight.  I think it takes one incredible person with BPD to actually make a difference in their own lives and for themselves.   I don't think many of them actually have that kind of drive inside them to do it.   Even if they do and I have spoken to one BPD person who I think does, they can easily get lost in their distortions again.   To hear someone say they are playing a role, and they don't care about anyone, or feel anything for anyone is unknown and sad to me.  This person had little kids. I asked her if she actually believed what she was saying about herself.  I asked her is it true that she feels nothing for anyone. She said she spends all time picking up the fragments of who she is.  Every day they shatter and every day she picks them up and reassembles herself. 

I don't know if I am allowed to post this.  If moderators want to remove it, that is ok.

It's about guilt.  I think it is worth a listen. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfR9zHVOgVk

I know my love is real,  I know I have empathy not because I am codependent because that is who I am.  I refuse to allow others to label me.  But that isn't to say there wasn't some enabling happening because I knew there was, and I knew it was an enmeshment early on.  I knew she wasn't growing.  I knew I have issues as well that I was dealing with and I could only grow so far with her and the continuation of growth can't happen with her. 

You can miss him, or parts of what you had, you can feel love, you can grieve, you can feel the loss, you can feel empathy for this person you were married to.

They are your rights as a human.   

It's also your right to say, close up this person hurts me, and it can't be allowed. 

Our emotions are very complex, and the juxtaposition of love and hurt is very confusing.

I think it's our objective to untangle it all very gently and finally get some peace.

Allow yourself that. 

If you fall speak up.   That is ok as well. 





 



 

[Sakura08]

I don’t want to save him. Yes I do regress when I feel like he baits me. It’s so extreme, I love you and I want only you but I got a girl pregnant and we live together. Like why and how. I actively stay away because it’s heartbreaking to hear. But he just doesn’t stop with the extremes. Being in denial telling me that we will come back together eventually.
I don’t want to go through that. And I can’t take anymore of it being all my fault. Is this called splitting?

[SinisterComplex]

At this point as well, I just want to be alone. I’m an introvert and I love my own company. I love my silence and thoughts that are my own. I enjoyed life quietly and went on adventures alone. Before this, I knew who I was and I worked hard to go from surviving to thriving. I don’t get why this break up is so volatile. So hot and cold. I’m usually calm and level headed. And now I have to tell myself that he didn’t choose me. Which sends me into a depression and I go through stages of grief, even though it’s been a year, it still is taking time.

So I can certainly understand...contrary to popular belief, but I am the furthest thing from being an extrovert. I am a rather dominant introvert. I walk my own path and do my own thing. I am very empathetic, but not very sympathetic. I don't need much social interaction to have my needs filled or quota filled. I am one of those people who could peacefully live on their own island and thrive. However, consequently due to my very strong confidence and always seeking out a challenge and being a project/task master it naturally draws people to me. LOL.

Now why do I tell you this? To understand this important point..."And now I have to tell myself that he didn’t choose me." - This kind of thing is particularly hard for introverts. Why? It makes us question our judgment. We lose that confidence that we are powerful on our own and now a mistake has happened and now we are just like everyone else, which for introvert is a tough pill to swallow. Introverts tend to have stronger or bigger egos actually. Typically the reason for that is the stronger sense of self and identity and overall self-awareness. Remember as an introvert you are very methodical and were probably thinking about things long before they happened and even mapping out how things would go or could go. We know we are different and we wear it with a badge of honor.

Now after explaining this...take the time to understand the only way to get over the hurt is to let go of the idea that you were not chosen and you were discarded. Actually, let go of the notion that you let someone else have that power over you...that is hard part...you let that happen. It's okay though...this probably won't be the last time you get hurt by something. You still have to be vulnerable, but realize that when you get hurt it's not the end of the world. S happens! Lean into your introvert powers and take the approach of its a them thing not a YOU thing. Do not put that pressure on yourself. Instead be more nonchalant about it and find a new challenge or passion or something else that fascinates you. You are ahead of the game and curve because as introvert you know how to please yourself and make yourself happy...that is what matters!

Also...no more past tense. Change your thought process from I was and I enjoyed to I am and I do enjoy. The core of YOU still remains and needs to stay in the present. You are still YOU and can still be who YOU want to be...no one gets to dictate that but you. You are responsible for your own happiness and you are in control of your own happiness.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Sakura08]

That’s true, everything that you wrote was very true. I only ever wanted him to consider and try to live in the same town with me. Together, but that never happened. And now he’s trying to tell me that he’s moving to the same town as me with his girlfriend because he loves me.
I am really trying to heal and stop hurting. Move on and take my life back. This hurts in ways that make me furious.

[Sakura08]

Can anyone explain how this is supposed to make me feel better? He tells it to me to say that he wants to be with me and that he still loves me. But is moving here with someone else? I don’t understand and I just want him out of my life now. Because I can’t take this

[SinisterComplex]

Can anyone explain how this is supposed to make me feel better? He tells it to me to say that he wants to be with me and that he still loves me. But is moving here with someone else? I don’t understand and I just want him out of my life now. Because I can’t take this

I would personally go zero contact. You cannot heal with any contact. There has to be a long enough period of no contact for you to process things. Now that doesn't mean that is forever, but it could be depending on if you care to have to any contact at a later time.

Your focus is now on you and YOU alone. No more about what he is doing or what he is saying to you, etc. No, blocked. No contact. Do not leave the door open or you will not heal and will be stuck in perpetual torment.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Kashi]

I can't explain it for you.  I don't have the skills.

I can tell you that my ex thinks the same way.

She thought that we would get back together some day.   She just offered out of the blue to get back together.  It was like an offer of "oh well we may as well be together".   Wasn't a heartfelt proposal.

This is long after I said I would support her in seeking help and she said no.  Multiple times. 

Which is fine, that is up to her but then to expect that I will be waiting for her after she tries out a few more relationships and fails.

She also said I was not able to reject her 

You show them love, loyalty, kindness, excitement, care, passion and they interpret in their own way. 

Not in the way it was intended.   

If they just owned the mess in their head, it might be a doable relationship.   You actually might be able to communicate with them.   But when the person can't tolerate my damage to their inner core,  no matter how minor that is,  then there is nothing you can do.

My ex has a list of stuff I did.   This was one.   I said sorry that we argued (we hardly ever did) BUT I did not say sorry that I was wrong.  I didn't own the whole thing.   It is that kind of stuff that does your head in after a while, makes you frustrated, sets up the no win situations. 

ONCE that happened ONCE

The deal there is I have to take the blame, if I don't take the blame then that makes her feel bad, and in her head that is my fault.

No blame on you then they have to feel what it like to be wrong, own their actions, feel the embarrassment, shame, guilt. 

All those horrible emotions everyone else has to process and has the skills to. 

Let's face it even so-called normal people try and avoid it and lie to themselves and others.   Don't want to take responsibility.

There is a sliding scale of values in normal people, willingness to be wrong, be accountable, not be selfish.

Well that sliding scale is off the planet with BPD. 

 I think the inability to see what their actions have resulted in, is part of the denial of the situation with you.

They are deluding themselves to push away the hurt.

That I think is why they can just pick it up again like nothing has happened. 

They have suppressed it.   Well their part in it and they expect you will take on that part for them and when you don't then that is proof you don't love them.

I guess by speaking to them you are inviting them to think that you are available in a way they need. 

Especially if you are discussions of how they love you and/or how you love them

I tell my ex that I care about her, that I love her, that the important thing is she is safe, and I am, and that isn't together.  There is too much hurt to fix it.  She seems to accept that now.

I think the kindest thing is to deliver a simple message and say you can't be contact because it hurts you and him.  You don't want to hurt him and he needs to live his life and so do you.

To do that is to yank your heart away and that hurts like nothing else. 

Who is hanging on to who? 

[Sakura08]

Thank you, I will do this. I block but I get spam accounts and emails. I will keep blocking and not taking the bait anymore.

[yellowbutterfly]

Change your number/email and hibernate or get rid of your old one until he stops contacting you.

As SC said...

I would personally go zero contact. You cannot heal with any contact. There has to be a long enough period of no contact for you to process things. Now that doesn't mean that is forever, but it could be depending on if you care to have to any contact at a later time.

Your focus is now on you and YOU alone. No more about what he is doing or what he is saying to you, etc. No, blocked. No contact. Do not leave the door open or you will not heal and will be stuck in perpetual torment.

You will start to heal and feel better with NC. I've done it. You got this.

[Kashi]

I changed my phone number, I deleted all my social media accounts. 

I deleted all my email addresses.

That was for my benefit as well as hers.   I didn't trust in a moment of weakness I wouldn't contact her.

She knows where I live and work, but I don't think she will use those avenues.

I told her what I was going to do.  I didn't just ghost her.  I was open about it. 

It hurts

I realise in my conversations I refer to my own experiences quite a bit.  I am doing that to tell you a story and in that story you might realise we all lived similar experiences.  That by telling those stories we don't need to be silent or complicit. By telling your story perhaps you can create a connection, so people know they are not alone. 

Speaking to you is for my healing as well as yours. 

Thankyou for your story and expressing how you feel. 

I'm with Yellowbutterfly.... I think you got this. 

It's good to hear others have gone no contact and started to heal. 

[Pook075]

Can anyone explain how this is supposed to make me feel better?

He's saying it and doing it to make himself feel better.  And maybe he hopes to cheat on the other girl with you, to destroy her life and the life of his child as well.  He's doing this because he's sick and incapable of making good choices at times.

No contact is the path to allow yourself time to heal.  Don't get roped in and stop accepting the abuse.  Because that's what it is, he's abusing you to come to terms with this himself.  Nothing about that is okay.

[EyesUp]

He's saying it and doing it to make himself feel better.  And maybe he hopes to cheat on the other girl with you, to destroy her life and the life of his child as well.  He's doing this because he's sick and incapable of making good choices at times.

No contact is the path to allow yourself time to heal.  Don't get roped in and stop accepting the abuse.  Because that's what it is, he's abusing you to come to terms with this himself.  Nothing about that is okay.

100% this.

He's continuing to do this for himself.  To seek validation from you.  That's it.

He's not capable of perceiving that this is harmful to you, or if he does - he somehow feels empowered, good, validated, whatever - because he has this ability to influence you.

You need to see that this has nothing to do with you - it's all about him. 

[Kashi]

Just a note

He IS cheating on her.  He is emotionally cheating, creating a backup plan against the person he is saying, I love you to.  He has an unborn child he is already betraying.

Because he is weak and can't admit it. 

His ego is like a piece of dust, you look at him the "wrong" way and his ego fragments.

Like all borderlines

It's so painful they can't take it and you have to own it for them - become the scapegoat for their emotions.

Our empathy is translated into weakness, and we are attacked for it

I feel pity for the woman he is with. She has no idea what she is going to be dealt.

I feel a sense of strength for Sakura because I have hope for her. 

My heart wills her to a better place.

[yellowbutterfly]

Just a note

He IS cheating on her.  He is emotionally cheating, creating a backup plan against the person he is saying, I love you to.  He has an unborn child he is already betraying.

Because he is weak and can't admit it. 

His ego is like a piece of dust, you look at him the "wrong" way and his ego fragments.

Like all borderlines

It's so painful they can't take it and you have to own it for them - become the scapegoat for their emotions.

Our empathy is translated into weakness, and we are attacked for it

I feel pity for the woman he is with. She has no idea what she is going to be dealt.

I feel a sense of strength for Sakura because I have hope for her. 

My heart wills her to a better place.

Beatifully said Kashi

[Sakura08]

Thank you so much. I just don’t understand his frame of mind. The explanations help. It twists me up trying to understand, but I’ve stopped and now I am focusing more and more on changing my mindset and appreciating myself. I’ve made real healing progress and I am grateful for everyday I wake up safe. I’m not alone, and I wasn’t the crazy one.

[SinisterComplex]

Thank you so much. I just don’t understand his frame of mind. The explanations help. It twists me up trying to understand, but I’ve stopped and now I am focusing more and more on changing my mindset and appreciating myself. I’ve made real healing progress and I am grateful for everyday I wake up safe. I’m not alone, and I wasn’t the crazy one.

Always say to yourself everyday...Live My Truth! The reason I say that is it will help you center yourself and focus mind and help stem the tide of potential negative thoughts and emotions so to speak.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Sakura08]

I am so exhausted. Exhausted from all this. But I don’t understand why it isn’t enough to be separated. Why I have to block. I can’t be the one for him if he’s already with someone else and having a kid with them. I’m so tired of having to be no contact. But because of him possibly being this way, all this push and pull. It’s so confidence crushing. But everyone’s stories are so similar. I just feel good that I am working on believing in my choice.

[Kashi]

I personally don't have contact with ex partners.

But then they don't try and stay in my life reminding me what we lost and can't have.

I'm not one of those keep them as friends' kind of person. 

I just don't.   Could be if there is a breakup then there hurts and sometimes unresolved hurt. 

No contact is normal for me.   

Borderlines don't have boundaries or allow you to.  Bit different.

You can't just say do you mind buggering off for a while, so I can collect myself and maybe I will talk to you down the track when I am healed, and you are a bit less of a dickhead.    

Cos they do what they want. 

[Sakura08]

Sometimes I look at the old conversations and I clearly state what I want. I see the cycles, and I don’t know where it is that I have never said what it is I wanted. See me and my boundaries bulldozed. I say stay away, then he replies with “ I love you” or some statement about something we both had an interest in. Like I was never talking to him at all. Blatant denial

[Kashi]

They don't hear you.

Well they do hear you, but they NEED and that is all that matters. 

I made it clear I wouldn't see her or speak to her again.  Next moment she is saying call me if you need anything.

In BPD language that is "can I call you if I need something but make it sound like I'm not needy, you are"

It's exhausting.  I don't want to be unkind but I am finding I am losing my patience.  That is not good.

I know how you feel.  Some people say the answer is to not answer and they get bored.

Personally, all I want to do is maintain a safe situation.  It isn't safe for her or I.   She has stepped into payback territory, and I have lost my temper with her.  Which is also what I think they want.   Sooths some of the shame. 

It does make it easier if you think nothing is about you.  It's about their needs and that's all.  They can get that from anyone. 

I'm not so important.   I wasn't loved.  I am replaceable.  So go away and replace me.  Let me have a life. 

What I can recover.  I'll do my best.