Was suggested I return, so here I be.

[Depression = 72% of members]

dude?

youve said these things before too.

i say this affectionately: what are you doing?

its lousy to be sent such a personal thing and not respond.

at the same time, its kind of a heavy thing to send to someone who was just telling you that these sorts of things bring up painful memories, and who was/is trying to walk away from that.

so is it truly all that surprising?

you cant keep doing the same thing and be surprised by the results, either. what you keep seeing as a cold shoulder to your loving gestures is, frankly, you not reading the room.

If I'm not reading the room then what is the room saying?

I don't mean this in any negative way, but it seems like  you're telling me that I should just be okay with being ignored.

We had still been talking casually throughout the week. It's not like I sent her pictures of my actual kid, just some of the ships we visited. Her grandfather had been in the Navy so there was a mutual interest there.

I've tried to accept that she is just fleeting and comes and goes. That's made significantly more difficult when the feelings I have for her are as strong as they are. I understand her nature, but it is still frustrating.

Once upon a time she hung on my every word, I miss that, and it's hard not to try and work towards that sometimes, even if it's a subconscious effort that I realize after the fact.

When you've gone from being mutually and wildly in love with someone, and having that turn into a sometimes 25%, sometimes zero situation, frankly sucks.

This is why I found your responses confusing sometimes once removed, I'm not really sure what your advising me to do, step back or stand firm.

Additionally, if history has shown anything, stepping back is what produces results.

I guess what I mean to say is that I'm just going to try and maintain a only respond when spoken to attitude, which is admittedly difficult for me to maintain

[OKrunch]

dude?

youve said these things before too.

i say this affectionately: what are you doing?

its lousy to be sent such a personal thing and not respond.

at the same time, its kind of a heavy thing to send to someone who was just telling you that these sorts of things bring up painful memories, and who was/is trying to walk away from that.

so is it truly all that surprising?

you cant keep doing the same thing and be surprised by the results, either. what you keep seeing as a cold shoulder to your loving gestures is, frankly, you not reading the room.

If I'm not reading the room then what is the room saying?

I don't mean this in any negative way, but it seems like  you're telling me that I should just be okay with being ignored.

We had still been talking casually throughout the week. It's not like I sent her pictures of my actual kid, just some of the ships we visited. Her grandfather had been in the Navy so there was a mutual interest there.

I've tried to accept that she is just fleeting and comes and goes. That's made significantly more difficult when the feelings I have for her are as strong as they are. I understand her nature, but it is still frustrating.

Once upon a time she hung on my every word, I miss that, and it's hard not to try and work towards that sometimes, even if it's a subconscious effort that I realize after the fact.

When you've gone from being mutually and wildly in love with someone, and having that turn into a sometimes 25%, sometimes zero situation, frankly sucks.

This is why I found your responses confusing sometimes once removed, I'm not really sure what your advising me to do, step back or stand firm.

Additionally, if history has shown anything, stepping back is what produces results.

I guess what I mean to say is that I'm just going to try and maintain a only respond when spoken to attitude, which is admittedly difficult for me to maintain

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Pook075]

I agree Pook, my head is tender from banging it against the wall. I sent some photos from a day out with my kid the day before yesterday. No response, it was the only message I sent. Nothing yesterday either. Im not making a fuss over it, but I cant keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
I awoke today with one (hopefuly last) gasp of anger and frustration. Being ignored is a crappy feeling, and I have a lot to offer the world, a partner and most importantly my son and myself.
Given that we have broken up before, and "recycled" (i hate that term) several times, I know what it feels like when shes interested in me, I know what it feels like when shes struggling, and I know what it feels like when I am being pushed aside for new limerance. This is what it feels like now, and I am not hanging around for that.

Its easy to feel like its your last chance when a 2nd major relationship fails at 36.

Despite the fact that she is the most interesting, sexy, amazing woman I have known, it does not make walking on eggshells, constantly making sure shes ok, propping her up, and being dispoasble and only desired when useful or lonley is exhausting.
Im not saying anything to her, and just cooling off, stopping pursuing.
My absence may change things for her, but I wont be around to know or care if it does.

I think I am going to try and move up north in the next few years. Its always been a goal of mine. I feel genuinley better there. My soul sings and the air is clear. Where i live is too crowded and developed.

I get how you feel, I truly do.  I was in a similar situation and at times, I still would like to work things out with my wife.  I just turned 50 so time is even less on my side.  I have accepted though that she can't love me for me, can't be there like I need her to be there, and I'll probably never be able to trust her again.

Could we eventually reconcile?  Sure.  Would it be true love where we're she's truly there for me like I'd be there for her?  Nope, that's just not possible anymore because of her mindset.  She's unstable and just not the loving person she once was.  I hate it and it still hurts because of our families, but I've made the most out of a bad situation.

Here's the thing though- I didn't give up on my wife.  Even today, if she needs help I'm there.  But I finally realized that to heal, I had to put my needs above hers and I needed to seek my own happiness in life.  I've found that and it makes all the difference in the world when dealing with my soon to be BPD ex-wife or our BPD daughter. 

In other words, I didn't let her mental illness dictate my life or who I was as a person any longer.  I'm happier than I've been in years and I focus my life on relationships that actually matter...with people who love me for me.  I was there for my aunt as my uncle died of cancer.  I helped my BPD kid turn her life around some and guiding her to a new career.  I volunteer with a prison organization because its cause I care about.  I couldn't have done any of this stuff if my only focus was my destructive wife and coddling her.

Brother, you can choose to be happy so easily...just stop the pursuit and figure out who you actually are in life.  You're still young and there's plenty of time to find the right woman, but you have to stop chasing the wrong one since she continually hurts you.

One last thing.  I get why you sent the photos of the Naval ships, etc.  I sometimes do that as well.  But ask yourself why you're sending them.  If they're for her to enjoy, then she can enjoy them without a reply.  If they're for you, then you're only opening yourself up to pain when she doesn't respond...and you know she usually doesn't respond. 

You have to resist that urge to win her back because the version of her that you're chasing no longer exists- it's like you're chasing a ghost.  The past is dead brother and we have to live in the present, please let her go and start to properly heal from her abuse.  You deserve to choose happiness and she doesn't get to deny you that.

My advice?  Block her on everything since you can't move on with the limited, casual contact.  If she shows up in person, tell her why you blocked her...it hurts too darn much when she shows affection then ghosts you.  It's not fair to keep you waiting when the same destructive cycles keep repeating over and over again.  If she won't make the choice, then you have to make it on your own.  No more abusive cycles.

[once removed]

it seems like  you're telling me that I should just be okay with being ignored.

no. theres nothing you detail about her that im telling you that you should be okay with.

there are, of course, certainly things about her youre going to have to accept in order to be in a relationship with her, and there are also things you may have to accept in order to court/persuade her to be in one with you.

but not being okay with any thing that shes doing is a valid reason to walk away.

you havent done that, and youre posting on the Bettering/Reversing a breakup board. in order to do that you have to understand the conflict.

i may be wrong about why she might have ignored the pictures. it may just be that shes flighty. it may be for any other reason. if you dont like it, and i dont know who would, you certainly neither have to accept it or be okay with it, and you dont need a better or worse reason to walk away from it.

if youre not going to do that, though, then doesnt it make sense to better understand why it might or might not be happening?

Once upon a time she hung on my every word, I miss that, and it's hard not to try and work towards that sometimes, even if it's a subconscious effort that I realize after the fact.

this may be unrealistic in any relationship (not that passion has to die), but what im trying to get across is that it is unrealistic here and now, by simple virtue of the position you are in. youre looking for signs of progress (like her making an effort, or more than she has) the likes of which arent going to come, unless, and until, she reaches that point. shes not making an effort, as you want to see it, because she doesnt currently share that goal. you arent "in this together", and shes not doing her part; its your goal to convince her to join you.

realistically, that means accepting that yeah, right now, shes not going to respond to everything, she may not even respond to most things. it may not have to remain that way, but its how things are right now.

or not accepting it, and emotionally committing to detaching. its emotionally mature not to blow up bridges, but "im just gonna do me and let her come to me" is not a strategy for improving a relationship, or detaching from one.

or just sending fewer things.

Once upon a time she hung on my every word, I miss that, and it's hard not to try and work towards that sometimes, even if it's a subconscious effort that I realize after the fact.

it is hard. its hard to do anything that goes against our instincts, even when our instincts arent serving us.

what that telegraphs though, is the urge to convince her back into the old relationship. that old relationship was broken. at least in part, she has mourned and grieved it, and while she has feelings for you, trying to resurrect the dead is banging your head against the wall.

[SinisterComplex]

Friendly reminder that on the Bettering board, we focus on positive and constructive problem-solving for members wanting to stay in a relationship. It is a given that partners wBPD exhibit challenging traits and behaviors that impact the relationship. Members are encouraged to review the "Who should post on this board" sticky above for guidelines on what content can be posted in "Bettering".

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[OKrunch]

Friendly reminder that on the Bettering board, we focus on positive and constructive problem-solving for members wanting to stay in a relationship. It is a given that partners wBPD exhibit challenging traits and behaviors that impact the relationship. Members are encouraged to review the "Who should post on this board" sticky above for guidelines on what content can be posted in "Bettering".

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

I am still working on bettering things.

[OKrunch]

what that telegraphs though, is the urge to convince her back into the old relationship. that old relationship was broken. at least in part, she has mourned and grieved it, and while she has feelings for you, trying to resurrect the dead is banging your head against the wall.

I dont want the old relationship back. I want to build a totally new thing. I'm looking more at "reincarnation" than "ressurection" here.

there are, of course, certainly things about her youre going to have to accept in order to be in a relationship with her, and there are also things you may have to accept in order to court/persuade her to be in one with you.

I have tried to accept these things, even speaking to her about it, recently in our conversation where we discussed her "Fleeting" tendancies. I told her I understood this, and even why she is like that. She didnt balk or get angry, and agreed and accepted it. Even saying "Its not always your fault, its how I process things, Ive always wanted you to understand that"


You say she "has feelings", but it certainly doesn't feel that way. Sometimes she talks about things like I was never there. She explains things about the dogs I know very well, having lived with an raised them. She tells me things about the house like I never lived there. Its almost like a partial amnesia, its bizzare.
She doesn't seem to hold much in the way of sentimentality. THe things we did and built together seem like they belonged to a past life of hers. She doesn't seem to miss them, or me or my son.
She way do so privately, I dont know, but I feel very "less than" and forgotten.

I just wish I wold clear the hurdle of constantly thinking about If/When/How i should reach out, worrying that she will meet someone else (again) and how that will feel.
I wish I didnt care. Because it would make things easier for me, and probably better our chances of a clean slate and a new relationship.

[Pook075]

Friendly reminder that on the Bettering board, we focus on positive and constructive problem-solving for members wanting to stay in a relationship. It is a given that partners wBPD exhibit challenging traits and behaviors that impact the relationship. Members are encouraged to review the "Who should post on this board" sticky above for guidelines on what content can be posted in "Bettering".

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

My bad, we were in detaching for about 6 months...didn't realize that the forum had changed.

[OKrunch]

Another thing that feels kinda crappy.
When we do talk, her tone is very "professional"
it feels dismissive, or like shes just being polite to be nice.

Example

Lets say i sent her a link to some art that she would find interesting, something that would've once sparked a whole conversation.

Previous Response: "Wow, these are gorgeous, I want to try painting like that, I like the scenery and the art style, very cool!"

Current Response: "Thanks for sharing, these are beautiful"

I know that may seem trivial, and maybe im reading too much into it, but it feels crappy nonetheless.

I want to ask her if we can hang out this weekend, but it doesnt feel like i should after our last "serious" convo.
I think it needs to be her idea.

[OKrunch]

Boy oh boy this woman never ceases to confuse me. Just got a phone call out of the blue because she was having a hard day at work they did a bunch of layoffs and she was upset about it, she did not lose her job but I think it speaks volumes that she called to talk to me about it.

That shows trust.

Going to be getting some books on patients and stoicism. Every time I start freaking out on my own end, but keep things calm and quiet between us, we end up sharing a moment. But if I freak out and make it vocal, it blows up in my face. I talk about being the mountain, I need to be a mountain not a volcano

[OKrunch]

Well, after yesterday I did a lot of thinking.

I found it pretty telling that, during a difficult day at work, she decided that I was who she wanted to talk to.
She called, and opened the convo with "I probably shouldn't have bothered calling about this but..."
and went on to tell me about all the drama at work. (Layoffs)
This was relevant also because my sister in law works for the same company, so there was an additional connection there.

During this conversation, she asked about my son, and how he was doing in school. This was the first time she has asked things like this in a while. She asked about my job, and told me about the improvements her daughter has made, and that things for her were going well again.

We had a decent conversation and it was all rather pleasant, towards the end, when I could tell she was wrapping up talking, and getting ready to get off the phone, I casually mentioned that we should hang out this weekend.
She told me she is leaving for the weekend to go to a concert with her daughter and best friend.
Its a couple of hours away, and makes sense they are going the day prior and staying in the area, but its not so far that they would NEED to do this. The concert is on Sunday night.
My immediate "Negative thinking" brain's first response was "The concert is Sunday night, I doubt they are leaving on Friday night. She probably DOES have time to see you, but just doesn't want to"
Then my rational mind kicked in.
If she has her daughter for the weekend, because of the concert (this is normally her weekend off when her Ex has her daughter) then thats obviously why she isnt available all weekend.
I know thats probably overthinking it but thats where my mind went.

So, on to what i mentioned about "doing some thinking"

Here is how I see it. We have an undeniable connection, we orbit back to eachother for a reason.
As much as I will convince myself otherwise when I am in a bad mood, She has a thing for me, and cannot seem to stay far from me for long.
She trusts me enough to discuss her vulnerabilities, and still shares info on things like the dogs, the kids etc.

She never lets go of grudges, and any hurt in the past will be held on to for a long time.
That is not specific to me, I know for a fact she is this way with everyone in her life.

I have been too available, and that doesn't cause any sort of urgency on her part.

I have said a thousand times, I want her to CHOOSE me, and to be putting in mutual effort here.
I havent really even allowed her the time or space to do that.

The chaos she expierienced earlier in the year with her daughter hit her hard, and thats just getting to a point of recovery.
September is always a hard month for her because of her Grandmothers passing a few years ago.

I just need to remeber to be myself, be confident, vibrant, healthy and happy.
If that doesnt fully re-attract her, it will eventually bring me the things in life I deserve and need. Regardless of the source.
There would still be a lot to reconcile, on both ends, so a NEW relationship, not a revived old one, is PARAMOUNT to any sucsess we may enjoy.

Im just rambling now, but yea.
Trying to stay focused and positive.
I realized that I have a lot more strength in this dynamic than i had thought.
I am the master of my own road.

[once removed]

My immediate "Negative thinking" brain's first response was "The concert is Sunday night, I doubt they are leaving on Friday night. She probably DOES have time to see you, but just doesn't want to"
Then my rational mind kicked in.
If she has her daughter for the weekend, because of the concert (this is normally her weekend off when her Ex has her daughter) then thats obviously why she isnt available all weekend.
I know thats probably overthinking it but thats where my mind went.

this is sort of what im talking about when i talk about managing reactions and feelings.

it is one thing to get bent out of sorts, vent/blow off steam, and then get back to baseline. a vital part of loving a difficult person, really.

but that reactivity sometimes drives your actions, it often drives your overall approach, and it permeates your narrative of how things are going, at least on and off.

that makes it hard to stay centered, hard to navigate, hard to cope.

this is what we call the synthesis of the emotional and logical mind: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

I dont want the old relationship back. I want to build a totally new thing. I'm looking more at "reincarnation" than "ressurection" here.

you say this, and you may want this, but im not sure she sees this new incarnation.

there isnt a clear contrast of what the new relationship would look like vs the old one.

i dont really have the sense that you have fully considered what that contrast would look like, what was broken about the old relationship, and how, in a new relationship, it would be resolved.

getting her back may be the most immediate goal, but as ive said, if she came back tomorrow, what is to say it is going to, not only last, but thrive?

You say she "has feelings", but it certainly doesn't feel that way.

i know to some extent this was written while you were frustrated, but lets walk it through.

what does "feelings" mean in this context?

the two of you have a history together. granted, a lot of that history is complicated, but its a long history, that involved at one time being engaged. she makes effort to talk to you, to see you, to share with you. she has/had sex with you.

it would be hard to look at that and call it a complete lack of interest.

it is not the same as saying she wants to pursue a relationship. it doesnt mean she wakes up thinking about how to repair the relationship or show interest. she is not at that point. that will come later, if it comes.

it means "something is there", no more, no less. that something may only mean so much, but so long as "something is there", you have something to work with.

Example

Lets say i sent her a link to some art that she would find interesting, something that would've once sparked a whole conversation.

Previous Response: "Wow, these are gorgeous, I want to try painting like that, I like the scenery and the art style, very cool!"

Current Response: "Thanks for sharing, these are beautiful"

I know that may seem trivial, and maybe im reading too much into it, but it feels crappy nonetheless.

remember 4 things:

1. she is flighty in general
2. things may have changed. her interests may have changed. you may need to find new things to connect over.
3. it is possible shes avoiding anything emotionally charged, anything that reminds her of the old relationship, or that shes trying not to send "relationship" signals.
4. if something is bringing you bad results or no results, do less of it

any of those things, or any combination of those things may be the case.

when it feels crappy, it will help to step back, and rather than see it as a wholesale rejection of you, or a lack of interest, try to see it as just one approach that isnt working, or one that isnt going to work in the current circumstances.

Here is how I see it. We have an undeniable connection, we orbit back to eachother for a reason.
As much as I will convince myself otherwise when I am in a bad mood, She has a thing for me, and cannot seem to stay far from me for long.
She trusts me enough to discuss her vulnerabilities, and still shares info on things like the dogs, the kids etc.

yes. all things that are important to remind yourself of.

and as long as its the case, the path to reconciliation may exist. but it isnt a permanent, stable solution, nor is it your goal.

I have been too available, and that doesn't cause any sort of urgency on her part.

maybe a little, but i would not, at this point, expect any sort of urgency on her part. being less available will not fundamentally change anything.

I have said a thousand times, I want her to CHOOSE me, and to be putting in mutual effort here.
I havent really even allowed her the time or space to do that.

yes. this is why i say it is unrealistic to expect, at this point. youre looking for/at indicators that arent going to be there right now, when you, by and large, have all the indicators you need.

I just need to remeber to be myself, be confident, vibrant, healthy and happy.
If that doesnt fully re-attract her, it will eventually bring me the things in life I deserve and need. Regardless of the source.
There would still be a lot to reconcile, on both ends, so a NEW relationship, not a revived old one, is PARAMOUNT to any sucsess we may enjoy.

all true.

trust that in a matter of time, you may feel discouraged again. flexing and developing that Wisemind will not only help you to cope when it does, but it will help you navigate at large.

[OKrunch]

you say this, and you may want this, but im not sure she sees this new incarnation.

there isnt a clear contrast of what the new relationship would look like vs the old one.

i dont really have the sense that you have fully considered what that contrast would look like, what was broken about the old relationship, and how, in a new relationship, it would be resolved.

getting her back may be the most immediate goal, but as ive said, if she came back tomorrow, what is to say it is going to, not only last, but thrive?

A NEW relationship would deal with our past, and leave it there.
It would be about bettering ourselves, with eachothers help, AFTER we've done what we need to do to better ourselves by ourselves.
there needs to be rebuilt trust, reignited passion, and a true TEAM mentality.

[OKrunch]

As an aside, We have had some pleasant conversation today.

I followed up asking how the mess at work was.
Lots of jokes, and GIF's. Feels like old convos...

Trying not to let that get any hopes up, or make me see things that arent there though.
But it is refreshing.

[SinisterComplex]

My bad, we were in detaching for about 6 months...didn't realize that the forum had changed.

No worries, it was just a friendly reminder that each forum comes with its own culture and on bettering the rules are bit more restricted to protect the members participating constructively.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[kells76]

A NEW relationship would deal with our past, and leave it there.
It would be about bettering ourselves, with eachothers help, AFTER we've done what we need to do to better ourselves by ourselves.
there needs to be rebuilt trust, reignited passion, and a true TEAM mentality.

Did you have any suspicion that she had BPD (traits/behaviors/diagnosis/whatever) before or early on in dating her? Sorry -- can't recall if you mentioned that before.

If this is something that has become more clear to you after being in a relationship with her, then I'll offer some thoughts on your comment in bold above.

Realizing over time that "it looks like BPD" might be similar to a partner having to start using a wheelchair midway through the relationship.

It didn't start out that way -- you assumed pretty rightly that both of you could walk and hike and climb together -- but things have changed. She can't use her legs any more. It isn't about what anybody wants to do, it's that she can't, and you can't go back to the way things used to be. You can still have the relationship but there are things she can't do.

If BPD is at play for her, it might be worth thinking of "dealing with the past" as "getting out of the wheelchair and walking" for her. I'd assume she can't -- or, likely, not in the way you hope for.

If having a fresh start in a new relationship is somehow contingent on her dealing with the past, I don't know that it can happen. If it were me, I might consciously choose to change my mindset away from "if she can't deal with our past then we can't have a new relationship" more towards "given her limitations, how can I on my end start something new -- can I accept her limitations and integrate them into this new thing". Less hoping she can get out of the wheelchair and walk, if that makes sense.

Food for thought...

Glad you had some chill, low-key, low-intensity communication with her. That is money in the bank.

[once removed]

A NEW relationship would deal with our past, and leave it there.
It would be about bettering ourselves, with eachothers help, AFTER we've done what we need to do to better ourselves by ourselves.
there needs to be rebuilt trust, reignited passion, and a true TEAM mentality.

respectfully:

"it would be better, i PROMISE".

that is three sentences not detailing a plan for a relationship, just stating what would be nice. what does bettering yourselves look like, and what is happening to achieve it? how is trust going to be rebuilt? how is any of this going to be accomplished?

this is not homework, mind you. there is no right or wrong answer, no grade, no due date.

but, boy, is it pivotal when it comes to whatever you want to do in the end, really.

long term relationships, whether they involve bpd or not, generally break down over time, over unresolved conflict. it may end over something superficial that seemingly has nothing to do with these differences, or it may end over someones last straw, or it may self perpetuate for months or years, or it may end amicably because the two recognize these differences and part ways. there are zero to 800 ways that relationships end, but within long term relationships, unresolved conflict breaks them down over time.

Dec 2019 - Relationship gets serious. we become exclusive.

March 2020 - (albiet rushed, due to Covid) we Moved in together. Things are still great.

June 2020 - We got on an amazing vacation to get a puppy.

August 2020 - Things begin to decline, fights increase, she begins pulling away.

it looks like within that first year, things got complicated. this is a very typical timeline for a couple, by the way.

there was a lot that happened as things broke down. the incident where she kicked you and your son out. the breakup, and rebound. the pregnancy and termination. the violent incident. a lot of damage in that time. on top of that, the pressures and the fall out involving loved ones knowing about it all. there have been multiple makeup/breakup cycles which, generally do more damage to a relationship over time.

what follows looks pretty similar to where things are today. there was an ultimatum. more arguments about the status of the relationship. struggles with how much/how little to contact her.

these arent things you have to figure out this moment, when your primary goal is just to reconcile in the first place. but you might think of it all as an extension of the old relationship conflict.

something was/is broken (or at least "not working properly"). what is it (is it more than one thing?)? is it resolvable/fixable? if so, what will it take? is it something that one person can accomplish, or at least lead the effort in?

while finding the answers to these things may not accomplish reconciliation, its going to ultimately be necessary to be on the same page about these things, both to reconcile, and to make it stick.

[OKrunch]

I didnt do anything that would constitute an ultimatum in my opinion.

shes back in ignore mode, and I am not going to bother her while shes "away" for the weekend.

If she's interested or misses me, she will make that known.
If not, then im not going to try and convince her to think differently, no profit to be had there.

[OKrunch]

Huge waves of energy and emotion today.
Friday night as well.

We havent spoken in a cople days, I am just letting things sit for the time being.

[Turkish]

OKrunch,

Communication can be both explicit and implicit, the latter more often telegraphed by reactions and emotions. I could be wrong, but I feel that you're implicitly telegraphing "She needs to do x, and if she does, I'll react y." At the end of the day, and no matter how you disagree with what she does or how she reacts, she's an independent entity and person, free to choose what she does, no matter how you, I or anybody here judges it.

You wanted to be on the Bettering Board for feedback. Have you looked at the tools in the Lessons, or even the top level Tools in the green pull down tabs at the top of the site? SET? Boundaries? Wisemind?

It looks to me like you're treading water here which might be contributing to those huge waves of emotion. That doesn't seem helpful to you to move forward on progress.

Being the rock or mountain feels protective, and the defensive strategy may be helpful to you in the short term, but it's also intransigent.

[OKrunch]

OKrunch,

Communication can be both explicit and implicit, the latter more often telegraphed by reactions and emotions. I could be wrong, but I feel that you're implicitly telegraphing "She needs to do x, and if she does, I'll react y." At the end of the day, and no matter how you disagree with what she does or how she reacts, she's an independent entity and person, free to choose what she does, no matter how you, I or anybody here judges it.

You wanted to be on the Bettering Board for feedback. Have you looked at the tools in the Lessons, or even the top level Tools in the green pull down tabs at the top of the site? SET? Boundaries? Wisemind?

It looks to me like you're treading water here which might be contributing to those huge waves of emotion. That doesn't seem helpful to you to move forward on progress.

Being the rock or mountain feels protective, and the defensive strategy may be helpful to you in the short term, but it's also intransigent.

I have looked at some of those things recently, yes.
If not a defensive appraoch? Then what?

We had talked a bit on Friday and the convo dropped off dead (She stopped responding)
I didnt reach out all weekend, then yesterday I ask her how the concert went.
She waited a few hours and we had a brief convo about how the concert was good, but she was wiped from lack of sleep.
That transitioned into talking about the Colorado trip we did back in 2020.
I then said "We should chill soon, maybe the weekend after next, when we don't have the kids?"
and she never replied.

So I haven't reached out all day today.
It feels like playing Minesweeper.
We will have decent conversations, and then she goes cold.
I never know when to reach back out, or at all.

Im getting very frustrated.
I seem to get opposing advice here, and I often find it cryptic.
Some of you tell me to leave it alone, others say don't give up, while still others seem to speak in riddles and expect me to glean some meaning, like Yoda speaking to Luke.

Shame on me for not giving up on someone who has said "I love that you don't quit on me like everyone else".

Shes chatty one day, sending photos of her daughter and the dogs, then the next shes mean, and others shes apologetic, while still others (and this mostly lately) she is just cold, aloof and ignores me for days on end.

SO CONFUSED & LOST.

Doesn't help that in the times we werent talking, and I was dating others, none of them even begin to compare mentally, physically, or spiritually.

I am trying to be better, Excercise, diet, more reading, trying to be my best. My most attractive.
But damn, this sure can get really freakin discouraging.

[OKrunch]

Welp, we had a bit of a blowout. She was super rude and mean, and I basically told her to EFF off.

Im done being the backup booty call when shes single.
Shes probably dating someone now, so I can be treated like crap again.

Honestly, you can delete all my threads if you want.

Im done.

[Pook075]

Welp, we had a bit of a blowout. She was super rude and mean, and I basically told her to EFF off.

Im done being the backup booty call when shes single.
Shes probably dating someone now, so I can be treated like crap again.

Honestly, you can delete all my threads if you want.

Im done.

I'm very sorry that this is not playing out as you had hoped.  I do hope that you can see the pattern here and you can do something different to avoid it in the future.  I'm not judging, mind you; I just hate seeing you hurt over and over again. 

The only person that can break this pattern is you, and you do that by learning how to break the co-dependency.

I am rooting for you so hard brother!

[OKrunch]

I'm very sorry that this is not playing out as you had hoped.  I do hope that you can see the pattern here and you can do something different to avoid it in the future.  I'm not judging, mind you; I just hate seeing you hurt over and over again. 

The only person that can break this pattern is you, and you do that by learning how to break the co-dependency.

I am rooting for you so hard brother!

Well, that is what happens when I blindly devote myself to somebody who I know uses people and then cast them aside when they're done.
Exactly as my therapist had said I was just being used because she was lonely in between partners.
She goes through men like toilet paper

[OKrunch]

Moved back over to detaching