I'm just a normal bloke.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I really hope this doesn't offend anyone.
I am a normal down to Earth man, I wasn't abused (until my ex)
My childhood was good, all good.
What I find strange is people always saying that some how it's our fault we got involved with a BPD, people say we are attracted to them because of some deep routed problem from our past, well I have to disagree, at least on my part.
I met a lovely woman, she did not have BPD stamped on her head, she did not come with a certificate saying she is ill in any way shape or form.
I as I am sure most people only found out something was wrong later on.
I have read plenty of posts where people turn it all round and blame themselves, that's a bit of a cop out, I admire the point of view.
Let's say it how it is,... .we met someone and fell in love but that person turned out to be a fake, they held up their mask until they didn't then they were their true selves.
I think all of us here are genuine honest loving people, we were conned.
We didn't choose it.
I am sorry and I no doubt expect some stick for posting this but the fact I didn't have a good Christmas when I was 7 years old in no way contributed to my falling in love with my ex.
I will post more later, I will wait for a bit of feedback.

[In a bad way]

I really hope this doesn't offend anyone.
I am a normal down to Earth man, I wasn't abused (until my ex)
My childhood was good, all good.
What I find strange is people always saying that some how it's our fault we got involved with a BPD, people say we are attracted to them because of some deep routed problem from our past, well I have to disagree, at least on my part.
I met a lovely woman, she did not have BPD stamped on her head, she did not come with a certificate saying she is ill in any way shape or form.
I as I am sure most people only found out something was wrong later on.
I have read plenty of posts where people turn it all round and blame themselves, that's a bit of a cop out, I admire the point of view.
Let's say it how it is,... .we met someone and fell in love but that person turned out to be a fake, they held up their mask until they didn't then they were their true selves.
I think all of us here are genuine honest loving people, we were conned.
We didn't choose it.
I am sorry and I no doubt expect some stick for posting this but the fact I didn't have a good Christmas when I was 7 years old in no way contributed to my falling in love with my ex.
I will post more later, I will wait for a bit of feedback.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi In a bad way,

I don't see anything offensive in your post.  We are all individuals, as are our ex partners.  There are more red flags from early on in some cases than with others.  Each situation is different, despite similarities we may see on the boards. 

In my case, I did have many red flags and just chose to ignore them.  It's the why to that which I've been exploring.  Personally I have codependent traits which have really not served me in life and this last r/s has caused me to examine that and seek change. 

I guess what you're seeing in other posts is self reflection or encouragement of that coming into play.  At some point that is a healthy thing to do in order to move forwards.  I'm not sure anyone is pointing the finger of blame though.  No one is at fault for becoming involved with a pwBPD.  Idealisation is very attractive - to some.  Not everyone would go for that.  Some people would see it as too much and wouldn't get involved.  This is something worth exploring, if nothing else.  For myself I can clearly see that my self esteem was shot when my ex came into my life and he made me feel 'seen'.  That does stem back to my FOO when I look deep enough.   

We are all in different stages of healing here so some conversations won't resonate as much with us as others.  Hopefully what you're also seeing is something that is more applicable to yourself and is helpful to you.  How are you doing at the moment?

Love and light x   

[SlyQQ]

I really hope this doesn't offend anyone.
I am a normal down to Earth man, I wasn't abused (until my ex)
My childhood was good, all good.
What I find strange is people always saying that some how it's our fault we got involved with a BPD, people say we are attracted to them because of some deep routed problem from our past, well I have to disagree, at least on my part.
I met a lovely woman, she did not have BPD stamped on her head, she did not come with a certificate saying she is ill in any way shape or form.
I as I am sure most people only found out something was wrong later on.
I have read plenty of posts where people turn it all round and blame themselves, that's a bit of a cop out, I admire the point of view.
Let's say it how it is,... .we met someone and fell in love but that person turned out to be a fake, they held up their mask until they didn't then they were their true selves.
I think all of us here are genuine honest loving people, we were conned.
We didn't choose it.
I am sorry and I no doubt expect some stick for posting this but the fact I didn't have a good Christmas when I was 7 years old in no way contributed to my falling in love with my ex.
I will post more later, I will wait for a bit of feedback.

+1

[Turkish]

I am sorry and I no doubt expect some stick for posting this but the fact I didn't have a good Christmas when I was 7 years old in no way contributed to my falling in love with my ex.

 

I say as the adult child of a borderline mother.

I think a lot of members do belong on the family board, but not all,  given my observations here over the past 5 years.

So leaving aside your FOO, what do you think contributed to your failing with your ex? Maybe you just weren't a good match? My T said this to me... .minus the "maybe."

[SlyQQ]

I say as the adult child of a borderline mother.

I think a lot of members do belong on the family board, but not all,  given my observations here over the past 5 years.

So leaving aside your FOO, what do you think contributed to your failing with your ex? Maybe you just weren't a good match? My T said this to me... .minus the "maybe."

[enlighten me]

Hi Inabadway

I totally agree. I had a good upbringing, no drama. I was confident in myself yet fell for a woman who did a 180 on me and turned out to be someone I would never choose to be with in a hundred years.

Yes they have their good points. The good side we saw of them is as much a part of them as the bad. The bad was never shown to us though, not until we had completely invested in them.

Yes maybe some people are drawn to them as they enjoy the drama and the excitement but for the majority of us the person we fell for and the person we left could be two completely different people.

[EdR]

I really hope this doesn't offend anyone.
I am a normal down to Earth man, I wasn't abused (until my ex)
My childhood was good, all good.
What I find strange is people always saying that some how it's our fault we got involved with a BPD, people say we are attracted to them because of some deep routed problem from our past, well I have to disagree, at least on my part.
I met a lovely woman, she did not have BPD stamped on her head, she did not come with a certificate saying she is ill in any way shape or form.
I as I am sure most people only found out something was wrong later on.
I have read plenty of posts where people turn it all round and blame themselves, that's a bit of a cop out, I admire the point of view.
Let's say it how it is,... .we met someone and fell in love but that person turned out to be a fake, they held up their mask until they didn't then they were their true selves.
I think all of us here are genuine honest loving people, we were conned.
We didn't choose it.
I am sorry and I no doubt expect some stick for posting this but the fact I didn't have a good Christmas when I was 7 years old in no way contributed to my falling in love with my ex.
I will post more later, I will wait for a bit of feedback.

Hi! I totally get what you are saying. I think this may partially be caused by the enormous complexity of these situations. Like I said before: working on myself only gets me so far... .there was/is this other person. And in your case: if you don't have any -major- issues, you shouldn't have to pretend to have -major- issues. Just try and calmly assess your own role in your r/s without trying to shift all the blame towards yourself.

I do disagree with your 'mask'-comment though. I DO very much believe they are wearing masks. But in a NON I can eventually clearly identify the person with and without that 'mask'.
For a pwBPD that's a different story. Their sense of self is NOT stable. So they are most definitely hiding behind a mask at times, but it is not fair to say the 'devaluation'-person is the TRUE person without a mask. I do not know who this true person is. I only can assume whatever is left (or even is there) of her core personality may have traits of both the 'lovely' and 'sh*tty' person.

[Insom]

Hi, In a bad way! 

How about this?  Emotionally intense relationships offer a tremendous opportunity for learning about ourselves, how we handle adversity/conflict, how we communicate with other people, what draws us in, what we like and don't like and so on, that less intense relationships just don't offer.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi In a bad way,

I was reading a book today called Boundaries after a Pathological Relationship and I thought of you.  I'm wondering how solid your personal boundaries are?  From what you describe of yourself above, it's hard to see whether you suffer from any low self esteem, however was there perhaps a time prior to meeting your ex that you did find yourself feeling somewhat vulnerable in that respect?

Love and light x 

[In a bad way]

I must apologise for the late reply, I have been pretty depressed to be honest and couldn't face typing anything out.
I've still been reading the board everyday.
I should have titled the post  I "was" a normal bloke because I am certainly not now.
I've just been reading about trauma bonding, I knew she abused me mentally and emotionally, I told her often enough, but she wouldn't accept it. She turned it around onto me.
I had to look through text messages the other day to find out when a friends birthday was and I had to read lots of messages to find it.
There are so many messages where I had poured my heart out to her about the way she was acting only to get a simple OK as a reply.
Some where she accused me of emotionally abusing her because I had told her how she was treating me!
Telling me I needed help because I was abusive and angry.
It was like I was trying to communicate to her in a foreign language.
I was banging my head against a wall, I just read a post someone wrote about Charlie Brown and it is spot on.
I can say however that it was not an addiction, it was love, I knew she wasn't right but I wanted to help her because I thought the woman I fell in love with was the real her, now I see that that is only the real her at the start of a relationship then she slides into the other real her if that makes any sense?
Problem is the latter is permanent.
I don't know how long this trauma / PTSD is going to last, it will soon be two years yet only seems like a few months.

[enlighten me]

Hi in a bad way

I too ended up with a form of PTSD from my relationship with my exgf. Luckily I have been trained to spot PTSD so recognised it fairly early on. Recognising PTSD and then working through the cause is what helped me. It takes time but I'm all good now. You have to break the cycle of how you process what happened. A lot of the time we shift from blaming them to blaming ourselves. I have a number of friends with PTSD and one of the biggest things I see is how personally they take the event that caused it. Even when it wasn't their fault (which non were) they see it as personal. They ruminate that they didn't do enough or they were the sole target. They cant accept that they did all they could or that they weren't the sole target.

This type of PTSD that my friends have is more ingrained and probably due to them being predisposed. For me luckily it was a temporary thing. I started by picking apart everything and seeing my exs behaviour as bad. Instead of blaming myself for staying too long or not doing enough I congratulated myself for trying my best. I then accepted that my exgf has a mental health problem and even though it was her behaviour it wasn't her fault as she is driven to behave that way. Slowly I unpicked the threads that held me back and now I'm back to my old pre relationship self with a better understanding of mental health.

[Speck]

In a bad way, I'm sorry you are having a rough go of it.  We've all been there, and it certainly sucks.

Some where she accused me of emotionally abusing her because I had told her how she was treating me!

This also happened to me, over and over.  No matter how gentle I tried to communicate with my wife about her hurtful behavior, it's like I could never get through to her that her words and actions were wounding.  She would simply get all p1ssed off and accuse me of "being abusive."

So, I just wanted to tell you that I understand how maddening it all is.


Something enlighten me said above really resonates with me as well:

The bad was never shown to us though, not until we had completely invested in them.

This is certainly true because while my wife and I were dating, she always presented herself as an upright single mother with class and decorum. It wasn't until after we married that my wife revealed to me that she had five (5!) abortions in her late teens and early twenties and that she once slept with her married friend's husband a couple of times. Had I known those details, I would have never married her, or continued to date her, as the revelation is just CrazyTown to me. Red-Flag City.

Anyway, write when you can, if it helps.


-Speck

[In a bad way]

   This also happened to me, over and over.  No matter how gentle I tried to communicate with my wife about her hurtful behavior, it's like I could never get through to her that her words and actions were wounding.  She would simply get all p1ssed off and accuse me of "being abusive."           

This was it, and of course it lead to immense frustration on my part, if it was the other way around I would listen.
I think that she just couldn't handle the truth, adult grownup conversations were beyond her.
My trying to get through to her nearly always lead to her kicking me out of her house, that's not very mature is it?
I have a recording where I poured my heart out to her and she just didn't speak for 15 minutes, when she did speak she told me to eff off home. What kind of person does that?
That was her immaturity and her answer and response to me trying to help her and us.
Her kids and ex husband treated her like cr*p and she knew it, her response was to treat me like cr*p.
I used to tell her to take it out on them not me, and if she was as aggressive with them as she was with me they would soon stop.
I didn't hear about BPD until 7 months after we split but I am 100% sure she has it without any doubt, there are so many terms I have found about it that I used to use with her.
Walking on eggshells was one, then she started using it on me!
She turned so many things onto me, she was a master of projection.

I don't ruminate about the good times and if a good memory pops into my head it is gone in less than a minute, but I constantly ruminate about the bad because it was abuse, I told her she verbally and mentally abused me and she said I was talking s***.
Well I have the messages and some recordings and I know it was her abusing me but she insisted it was me abusing her.
If I tried to explain to her how she was treating me I was accused of abusing her and controlling her.
You honestly couldn't make it up, and the projection was something else that made me feel like I was the mad one.
I've read it's the shame and guilt of their actions that make them project it onto their loved one but she was addament in her projection that I had done what she had, I used to think if she really does believe it then that is just crazy. She must be crazy if she thinks what she is saying is true because no sane person would.
That again is total frustration listening to her.
But after all this time it's still stuck there in my head and won't stop even though it wasn't me, I know she is crazy there is no other explanation apart from the pressure she was under from her family and that p*** of an ex, but still she should not have taken it out on me.
One minute she is telling me how much she appreciates everything I do for her and her kids and 5 minutes later she is having a total melt down hurling abuse at me and kicking me out of her house.   

[fedup2017th]

Wow. Every post here describes me and what I am going through. Thank you to everyone on here for sharing.

The part about trauma bonding really hit home because she would abuse me, then turn it around on me. Then, what would make me feel better? TO hold her and have her say everything is ok. That is, after I apologized for something that she did to me. Like you, I "was" normal. I don feel normal now. I feel broken. She friggin broke me. She broke a really amazing person in which I will become again. How crazy am I in that she would do the abusing, and this is the person I looked to then make everything nice.

My goal was to somehow make her see what she was doing. To win just one little battle and convince her she was wrong about just one disagreement! For her to say, I am sorry just once.

I also loved her but I understand the addiction piece of it. I want to be with her because I loved her so much and remember how much love we shared. Because of that, I am addicted to that feeling, that love we both gave. Her hug and the look she would give me, that is my addiction. Hard to break!

It is crazy that I let her turn everything around on me. It came to a point where she would baradme with insults, then give me the silent treatment. Then blame me for saying them to her.

I am sorry to rant here but I think it will help me. I am done with the names, you are fat, ugly, dumb, bad father, bad husband, nobody likes you, everything is your fault. I have no friends because of you, how do you have your position at your job being so dumb. How did I put up with this? No more.

It help me (and makes me sad) that I am not alone. Thank you for everyone contributing to this board.

[ozmatoz]

I am sorry to rant here but I think it will help me. I am done with the names, you are fat, ugly, dumb, bad father, bad husband, nobody likes you, everything is your fault. I have no friends because of you, how do you have your position at your job being so dumb. How did I put up with this? No more.

There is only so much of this you can take.  I know I'm a good dad, employee, boss, husband, friend... .but she is SO convinced otherwise it causes you to question yourself.  Eventually you question yourself enough that you start believing and apologizing for it.  Then you are told you need to do better, well if you are already a good xyz etc then how can you do more without burning out?  Then you are criticized again for not meeting an impossible standard.  Its crazy making and as a non it is so hard to let go of the fact that they (pwBPD) will never "get it".

17 years in and I can't remember the last time I heard a real "I'm sorry".

[fedup2017th]

Thank you for you reply! Communicating to others does help, especially hearing from others who have went through the hell you are going through and add a little sanity to it.

My psBPD will never get it and it is a shame. I have to keep fighting the urge to fix things, make everything ok or try to convince her the actual reality. It is hard!

[Speck]

I have a recording where I poured my heart out to her and she just didn't speak for 15 minutes, when she did speak she told me to eff off home.

It sounds like we married the same woman. Uncanny. I could have written that. My uBPDw would do the Ice Queen Routine every time I would beseech her to sit down and have a Heart-to-Heart, although, it was more like a Heart-to-Lump-of-Coal. Anyway, I would carefully address the issue(s) that I was having with her, and she would either just silently sit across from me for minutes on end (looking down into her lap, or playing with the cats), or would just tell me to Eff Off.

What kind of person does that?

A wounded child.

I constantly ruminate about the bad because it was abuse, I told her she verbally and mentally abused me and she said I was talking s***.

Yes.  You were subjected to emotional abuse (verbal/mental)... .and I believe you.  People suffering with BPD are not able to see, feel, or even freekin' register the pain that they inflict on others the way that Nons are able to.

From my experience in dealing with a disordered wife, even if she could intellectually process the words I said, which were along the lines of, "Hey, your behavior is hurting me", all she could hear was criticism. And then her hackles were raised and her defenses up... .then came the Ice Queen Routine.

Mix... .repeat. 

So, issues are never resolved, and that's why it so truly sucks to have a difficult conversation with a person suffering with BPD, and it sounds like that's what happened to you... .over and over.

Thank you for writing.  Your doing so helps others, and may resonate with someone who needs to know that they are not alone. Someone like me. Thank you.


-Speck

[Harley Quinn]

A wounded child.

Speck makes a great observation here.  Whenever behaviour is addressed, a pwBPD has two choices.  Accept and own the behaviour, which in the sufferer's perception means not only that they did something wrong, but that they are wrong, or avoid taking that responsibility at all costs, because the pain that causes them to feel is more than they can bear.  

It is very similar to being a wounded child.  If we can remember back that far (I speak for myself!) to a time when we did something wrong as a child and it was addressed with us, we might remember feeling a sense of shame.  Everything felt very scary and our very security felt threatened if we got into trouble.  Emotion would likely run high.  :)epending on our age and state of panic, it's possible that the instinct might be to blame someone else.  Not impossible to imagine.

Remembering that a pwBPD feels emotions in a magnified way to a non disordered person, being in the position of having behaviour addressed must indeed feel very threatening.  Taking away the actions or words and looking past these to the emotions underneath these helps us to better understand where this behaviour comes from.  

With a better understanding, we can begin to de personalise the behaviour directed at us.  It was never about us.  It was about a partner who was trying to cope with excruciatingly powerful and frightening emotions the best way they have learned.  Rightly or wrongly, they were doing what they knew worked for them to get them through that moment.  What this did to us was an unfortunate side effect.  Like collateral damage.

The question is, how to move forwards from this In a bad way?  Can you release yourself from thinking about how you were wronged?  What next for you?

Love and light x

[enlighten me]

As we are on the subject of abusive behaviour I would like to pipe in.

PwBPD seem in denial that they are being abusive which confuses us nons. We think that they are being malicious for the fun of it but that's not the case. One thing I came to realise is this abuse is reactionary. The anger and abuse is retaliation to perceived slights/ our "bad behaviour"/ our shortcomings etc.

What we have to bare in mind is that even though in our opinion we have done nothing wrong in their minds we have. For example a big one is that during idolisation our faults aren't seen by them. Once the idolisation starts to calm down our faults start to appear and they then question who we are. They may feel weve duped them and pretended to be someone were not. This is their reality.

[Jeffree]

There are so many messages where I had poured my heart out to her about the way she was acting only to get a simple OK as a reply.

I never got that OK. She would always explain away her responsibility for her actions... .ALWAYS!

However, there were many times where I poured my heart out to her explaining why I loved her, what made her special to me, how beautiful and sexy she was to me, and the sort, only to not even hear thank you back or to hear why she loved me back.

It was that silence, after really summoning as much vulnerability that I could muster that was a real head scratcher.

J

[fedup2017th]

Jefree:

Like I have mentioned on other posts, it is so sad to read that others have gone through the exact darn (wanted to use a stronger word!) thing I have dealt with. It is so sad that all of us are just here hurting while they are there thinking we were the ones that were wrong. Even after knowing I have done this a thousand times, I want to just try one more time. Maybe she will see this time. Maybe she will take a step back and realize the pain she has caused me. The irony is that I would be willing to put up with everything if she only acknowledged what she did after and I simply got an "I'm sorry". That is it, just some recognition that I was not wrong.

This is so sad and difficult. I have to continue to run but I also need my addiction fix which is just a simplet hug.

[Jeffree]

The irony is that I would be willing to put up with everything if she only acknowledged what she did after and I simply got an "I'm sorry". That is it, just some recognition that I was not wrong.

Yes. I know this sentiment well. The final straw with me was when I caught her talking up some guy in the middle of the night. Instead of apologizing, she doubled down and accused me of spying on her. Two weeks later she moved out. No apology, no coming clean, no accountability. That was the story of my life with her.

At the same time, she was always making so many of us in the house apologize for her falsely perceived sleights, and when we relented she'd tell us it's not a good enough apology or we don't really mean it.

So, after a while, it was like why bother? We were willing to play the charade for the greater good of the household, only to not have that work either.

Meanwhile, those apologies were 100X more than what any of us were getting from her.

J

[fedup2017th]

WOW, STOP! I can't take the parallels!

The doubling down and finding someway to turn it on us is amazing and so friggin sad and wrong!

One of the "last straws" that I dealt with is when she was not talking to me for something she did (called me names, did something mean, etc, then blamed me for doing it), and wouldn't talk to me outside of doubling down and being more mean unless I apologized to her!  When this was happening, my 9 year old was going thru the same thing (which of course I was defending him). He snuck into our bed trying to get a hug from his mother and she wouldn't hug him unless he apologized. He kept getting so upset saying it was her and not him but she wouldn't hug him. She made him go to his room. An hour later, he snuck in again and whispered that he was sorry and got to hug her. He didn't want me to hear this because he was probably embarrassed. The same fix his weak father needs. A hug from the abuser to make the pain that she caused go away. And I say she needs help?

I need to break this and keep staying away but will have to see her quite a bit due to sporting events for my son.  This is not going to be easy.

Fedup.

[Harley Quinn]

I constantly ruminate about the bad because it was abuse, I told her she verbally and mentally abused me and she said I was talking s***.

How are things IABW?  I've been thinking about this and wondering if you have explored the route of support specific to victims of abuse rather than thinking about the illness per se?  I realise a lot of questions come from the fact of a PD, however personally I'm in counselling purely to address the residual effects of trauma from abuse and this allows me to gain new perspectives.  What approaches have you taken to work through this so far and what others might you consider?

Love and light x

[wellwellwell]

I just wanted to say that reading this thread helped me clear some fog ... .a year and a half on from a divorce and a year since I last visited this site. It's such a difficult process getting completely free of this. I thought I was normal (whatever that means ), but the more I look at why I'm still in so much pain, the more I realize that my upbringing exposed me to a lot of Borderline behavior, too. It's overwhelming that I know so little about healthy relationships. And oh, can I relate to being categorized as angry... .So thanks, everyone who comments here. We're all individuals, which makes it more valuable to share this.