Walking on egg shells doesn't help

[worn_out61]

ok. i am writing to a blog. or board . in other words into cyberspace. and thank you whoever reads this. because everyone I know is tired of hearing about it.  so I am involved with a woman. she is very interesting to me on many levels. but it is clear that she has both BPD and is quite the narcissist. walking on eggshells doesn't help because as we all know the eggshells are hidden and there are so many... .

but this line is something that I have ended up believing to be so true:

"The cycle only stops when the non-disordered partner accepts that things will only change when he or she becomes aware that this is a one way relationship and that they will always be in the giving, not getting, role"

i read that on this site. BUT  i don't believe the cycle stops then, it just allows one to know how much you will never get if you continue.      My point is that knowledge is great and I have gathered a lot of it... .but the problem is this ; knowing about the challenges a person with BPD and NPD face causes me to be compassionate ... .and then i am able to be manipulated and bullied by that person.   the only way to regain self respect and actually be respected by that person ... .is to leave ... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

I want to assure you that you have found a safe space to learn more about this confusing relationship you are involved with.  Hang in there!   You can learn some things here that may change you view about your future prospects... there is hope.


Something caught my eye in your post.  I've highlighted it below.

  the only way to regain self respect and actually be respected by that person ... .is to leave ... .

I can see how you could come to that conclusion... .

Can you click on this and read this article?

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

My experience has taught me there are many ways, other than leaving, to regain self respect and to get a pwBPD to respect you again.

Are you interested in learning more about boundaries?

Would you like to learn more about showing compassion AND avoiding being bullied and manipulated?

I'm convinced we can help you.  How does that sound?

FF

[worn_out61]

thank you for your response.

It actually has made me cry. because I am so lacking in support. and it has gone on for so long.

I am a man. Nothing thus far in my life has been this challenging. I pick up heavy objects, I have accomplished what ever I have set out to do. but this ? it is not my forte - and I have come to understand that I would not be in this position unless I experienced something similar in my childhood and yes, I am a people pleaser and conflict avoider. 

Yes I have heard about boundaries () . When I first heard about them I was amazed because I suppose I had never utilized them , was not taught that they were an option, and was basically just astounded. I was taught that being "selfish" was bad. .

I will follow your link.   

but I tell you now. the person I am having these troubles with has far more knowledge and IQ than I and it is at the point where I cannot talk to her at all. because of the narcissistic trait of not being able or willing to look at herself and the  need to "win" ... .i started going to Al_anon and the more I went the more I realized that the solution to many of the problems isnt to change oneself ... .though that probably is necessary, but to leave. leave with the knowledge gained, and repair myself. sometimes there is no hope. not with an unwilling participant.

[formflier]

I'm glad you have replied quickly. 

Hang in there... I'm a retired Naval Aviator... .a pretty "manish" type of profession.  I have a really cool mustache too!     Yet... .all of those things didn't stop the "BPD blender" from scrambling my brain pretty good.

Then... I found out that there are ways to deal with this.  There are "rules" and "boundaries" and if understood and used consistently... .I could change my relationship, even if my pwBPD (person with BPD in shorthand) had no interest in changing.

So... .welcome... read the link and post some questions. 

Can we focus on learning for a few days? then... perhaps... we'll help you identify some things to change... .some things for you to take power back in your relationship... .some things that can give you hope.

How does that sound?

FF

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Worn_out61,

Welcome!   Thank you for coming and joining our site. You are part of our family now, and we do our best to comfort and support one another. You are safe here. I'm so glad that you shared about the hurt going on inside you. 

the person I am having these troubles with has far more knowledge and IQ than I and it is at the point where I cannot talk to her at all. because of the narcissistic trait of not being able or willing to look at herself and the  need to "win" ...

This sounds much like someone in my life. It is so hard to feel like you are someone with value when you are around a pwBPD and NPD. It wears you down to the core of your being. Is that how you feel too?

I am thankful though for this opportunity that I have had to learn and to grow. So many times I thought of giving up, but the best thing is that I haven't given up on me. Don't give up on yourself either. As you take time for you to get stronger, you can begin to focus on your needs.

What can you do to be kind to yourself today?

 
Wools

[Speck]

Hey there, worn_out61.

I just wanted to join formflier and Woolspinner2000 in welcoming you to the forum and also to reiterate that there is hope to be found here. The very first step to take in this confounding situation, well, you've already taken - you've reached out for help... .and I'm glad that you have! The second step is to understand that you are NOT alone. The overwhelming majority of members here know exactly how you feel, so, just know that you are among comrades.

I hear a lot of frustration in your posts and that is perfectly understandable. I've been there! In these types of relationships, there is quite a steep learning curve to master in order to successfully navigate the conflict(s) that you are having with your pwBPD/NPD.

So, as formflier suggests, just spend the next few days soaking up all the information you can about setting boundaries. Yes, some of the stuff on boundaries is common sense, but some of the things you will read will surprise you. And may just work.  For YOU.

Please tell us more when you're comfortable doing so and feel free you make yourself home here.

Stick around - you will get a lot of support to help you through this. We are here for you.


-Speck

[worn_out61]

again. thank you . i see that somehow someone about my age and "manly" understands what I am saying. I feel blessed. actually.     and I will say that reading about folks with personality disorders hasn't helped one bit. in fact since personality disorders aren't "mental illnesses" and are "uncurable" I have felt helpless.   I surely do know that the person I am describing does in fact have a side of her which is fraught with self loathing / shame, had a bad childhood - is using grandiosity to prop up her ego and all of that. She has threatened suicide 100's of times including a few days ago. etc. so yes I have compassion and understanding.   still.     but again, why stay ? why sacrifice myself ? this person isn't a family member ... .never and I mean never can apologize.   but yes. ok ... .I am grateful to you for extending your willingness to listen and help.   and yes, i recognize that I am not doing the "right" things toward her like, i do pull back. I have threatened to leave and actually have left. it doesn't matter. I still say that if the other person is completely unwilling to be a participant in the process ... .then it is like learning to live in a cage with a lioness  (border_lion - if you will) the lion won't attack if you move very slowly and don't ever act like a man. aka don't  take ___.    maybe I have my own issues with what is being a man. of course I probably do. but in my world ... being a pussy / coward is worse than death. it's embarrassing and truly there seems to be a war going on with women ... .they want you to capitulate - but if you do, they don't think you are manly ... .that is a Catch-22 or a "no-win" situation .  i'm venting. I'll read some more and post a question or two. but the main question is this : why torture myself ? why hope things will get better ? hope is a fantasy not based in reality.

[worn_out61]

thank you formflier and Woolspinner2000a and speck.   

thank you for welcoming me. thank you for letting me know that my experiences are understood. 

I suppose I clearly know that NO ONE who has not been in this situation can comprehend it or fathom it.  I guess the hardest part - one of them anyway, is to be blamed for doing something that I am not doing, and in fact it is a projection.

I feel like I have been brainwashed. accused of something i am in no way doing.    i have seen written that trying to figure out a crazy person's logic is like looking in one of those warped mirrors at a fair or carnival. it makes no logical sense.  and therefore seems to be so frustrating as to be mind bending.

Boundaries, reassuring the person they are loved, figuring out how to say things so they aren't "triggered"  ... .i could learn those things... .probably. But why ? I am shaped into a pretzel and can't walk, and the other person gets to believe I am the problem .   They are vindicated ... .I have always believed in win-win situations.  but this is not possible when the other person only believes in winning, that someone has to lose.
 
I could waste my life furthering the eggshell walking .   

anyway ... .what can I do to be kind to myself today ? 

that is a great question. and thank you for asking it.

I can eat dinner. At a restaurant of course because I don't want to go into the house.   

I had a shrink once suggest that I ask myself this question:  "it this in your best interest"  and i was again shocked ... because that is not a question I was ever taught to ask.     

and i don't think this is in my best interest to continue this quest. They say people come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime.   I am sure it has been for a reason, and more than a season, but lifetime ? at this rate my lifetime may be shorter than i had ever thought .

[formflier]

Boundaries, reassuring the person they are loved, figuring out how to say things so they aren't "triggered"  

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Can you read this about boundaries... .then describe boundaries again to us.  Compare with what you have written above.


Also... .can you pick out a recent instance where threats were used.  Talk us through some he said she said in that.  That will help us point you in the right direction.

Last:  Suicide threats.  Any actual attempts or are the threats hollow?  How have you reacted to these in the past.

FF

[worn_out61]

the suicide threats have been ongoing - I have reacted strongly - searching for her, breaking down her front door to see if she has really taken pills and is "slipping away . then searching for her car, then coming back and when I enter the house (her house at that time) being asked "why are you here"  uh because you said you were killing yourself. then she says "are you going to fix the door?" ... .then another time ... I called 911 and the police came, and knocked on the door. no answer . then she casually trolls up to the house with her dog and says i dont know what he is talking about - and goes with the police to press charges for assault. Another time I called what I believed to be her best friend at work and was told why did i do that. How dare I. so it's a no-win situation. if I try to elicit help from her loved ones (and there are not very many) I am told that is heinous , if I do nothing. i am told I don't care.
so now, what do I do ?  I text her back and say "don't do that" ... .because if I say will you please call a suicide hotline I am berated. the situation is quite difficult. and just moments ago I was told - why haven't I put her on the deed to my house if I care about her so much. I guess she truly does not understand that i am about to leave permanently. I believe she is a danger to me. Will not listen, interrupts me if I try to talk, yells at me and says "i am not yelling"  ... so I see no other choice but to sever contact and leave.   And not look back.  She needs help but cannot see it. continuously tells me that I am the problem. That I yell at her. It is crazy. Plain and simple.    RE: boundaries.     truly the boundary i need is space away from mindf'ing. I appreciate this forum. but I do not see a solution. Just a mire that I am stuck in. there is no conversation.    sure I could try to communicate and tell her i care. that I love her. but I am seriously wondering why I chose to love someone this disturbed. and I think it is me who needs help decompressing from the years of anxiety and fear generated by interacting with this person.   I mean, no I am not going to put her on the deed of my house - I could put her on my will. That would reassure her?  Not likely there would be another demand ... .and my capitulation ... .again .

[worn_out61]

the suicide threats are hollow. but when she was 17 she did take pills and ended up in a hospital and a 10 month stay in a private psych ward. that was 30 years ago.  I believe that the person is actively trying to drive me away. unconsciously . maybe. fear of intimacy ... .yeah. and I have stuck in , but always very guarded.    My keys are missing today. I wonder where they are. Of course I have a backup set because they have gone missing several other times.    And yes. at this point, i cut off communication, generally by walking away.  because there is none anyway - just a blame fest. Just an attack really.  At the moment I am sleeping in my 1957 Airstream trailer parked near the house. And I can load up my possessions and roll. If I was smart i would do what every one including shrinks and friends tell me to do .  Again. i am venting ... .and I appreciate the forum to let me do that. It helps a little bit. But all I know is that my life has become unmanageable and I am so upset so often that my work has suffered, and my health. thank you for reading this. if you do.   setting boundaries. interesting concept... .I did tell her for years and years . please stop criticizing people I once knew or loved ... please. like everyone I ever knew. including my family. She has stopped but I cannot ever speak of them- if I do I get a comment like that ass. or whatever. I get NO support regarding my father who is ill and probably dying.   so i guess I know the answer to my problem. run. fast and far. today.

[formflier]

I'm sorry today is a venting day.

Few things to clarify.  The "rules" at bpdfamily don't allow us to give "stay" or "run" messages.  So... it's unlikely (and would be unhelpful) for anyone to say "I agree... you need to leave and not look back."

I am certain that there are ways to reduce tension, arguments, reactivity without you leaving the relationship.  It will take a while for you to learn those.  I learned them.

I would ask you to think if learning, trying and seeing where these new things can take you makes you think differently about your relationship.

More later.

FF

[Jeffree]

wornout,

I have to say that despite ALL the challenges you're going through, you're doing a great job navigating the storms. Granted, you have not gotten yourself to calm seas yet, but that's a process.

I have to say that it is incredible how similarly many of us here have been treated by our pwBPD.

One time my STBx was in my room, at my desk, with a hammed in her lap, and called the cops on ME for being a "passive aggressive a$$hole!

Of course, I wanted nothing more than to just up and leave the whole mess. I knew that if I were to do that all these day-to-day, minute-by-minute problems would go away. I could block her from my phone and email and all social media and remove her from my life.

However, it would have been my house in my name I was abandoning, my step kids, my step pets, my surroundings that I have enjoyed other than my marriage to STBx.

I think to up and leave plays out in our imagination like a solution. The only problem might be the practical application of that move.

You seem like a very responsible person, wornout. I am sure things will resolve themselves as you heal and recover from this drama. You can only do what you can do when you can do it. Be gentle on yourself.

We're here to help, too.

J

[Skip]

"The cycle only stops when the non-disordered partner accepts that things will only change when he or she becomes aware that this is a one way relationship and that they will always be in the giving, not getting, role" ~ Randi Kreger

i read that on this site. BUT  i don't believe the cycle stops then, it just allows one to know how much you will never get if you continue.      My point is that knowledge is great and I have gathered a lot of it... .but the problem is this ; knowing about the challenges a person with BPD and NPD face causes me to be compassionate ... .and then i am able to be manipulated and bullied by that person.   the only way to regain self respect and actually be respected by that person ... .is to leave ... .

It sounds like you are having some bad days... .why not let us help you get to a stable mental place and then tackle the bigger questions... .

You sound defeated and beaten down - what has been happening recently?

[Speck]

Hello again, worn_out61:

Hey, friend.  I'm so sorry you are still in the mire of having such crappy experiences with your partner. There seems to be quite a bit of drama going on in your house, and I imagine that you feel like you're drowning in the toxic soup that is your relationship at this point.

Only YOU will know how much that you can bear, but if you would like to learn the ways of coping well with living with someone who exhibits a personality disorder (such as boundary setting, mindful thinking, etc.), then that help can be found here. It really can. There is hope.

However... .if you feel it's time to start thinking about protecting yourself from further damage, then that's understandable, too.

We've been where you are... .some of us are still there. I just want you to know that you are heard and your thoughts and feelings are valuable, here.

Keep writing if it helps.


-Speck