Wife bored and lonely and overspending…

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all, I have spoken in the past of my dbpd wife’s jealousy over me going out to work, even though I need to work while she cares for our 3 little ones. I have worked less than I would have liked since baby arrived but it’s a fine balance because she does need my help sometimes. My wife is very maternal and adores spending time with her babies, breast feeding, co-sleeping, and being at home with them lots. But she craves adult interaction.

My wife has been in a long term split against me since baby 3 arrived, some days she’s ok with me or occasionally a little loving, and others she criticises me constantly and speaks of divorce etc.

We have recently moved to a new area but my wife has never had good friends anyway. But she is really struggling to make friends. She has tried many things like apps to meet people and Facebook, can’t go out with all 3 kids just yet as they’re so small. Even getting a friendly neighbour round for coffee has proved impossible. She has friends at slimming world (her only social occasion of the week), but is not finding they have time or wish to see her outside the group. So this lack of friends is a huge reason my wife hates me working. She is also jealous of me spending time with and getting to know new people.

On Monday she has an old friend who will be in the area but isn’t willing to come to us but apparently would love to see her. My wife needs me to come and help with the kids but I have already committed to work, (not having known about this situation) but we really need the money and it’s technically too late to cancel anyway cos I hate being unreliable. I constantly get accused of putting work before her and before our marriage.

My wife is also thinking of quitting slimming world because she keeps ordering takeaways and eating out of boredom and she’s using her credit cards. She’s even said to me “it’s not worth you going to work because of the amount of money I’m spending”. Sadly it’s true. I earn good money teaching piano, but only get paid at the beginning of each term. But having an advanced practice early education qualification, even as an agency worker, I only get minimum wage. Disgusting but true.

I’m doing well at handling all this, only in terms of the fact that there have been few arguments because I am now in the habit of validating without judgement and not Jade-ing. This helps to keep my wife calm, but it means that I’m not justifying my reasons for working, I’m not commenting on her overeating or overspending… where if she was a non-bpd person I feel I would be trying to work through these problems and feelings with her, but now I just leave well alone.

 

[thankful person]

Hi all, I have spoken in the past of my dbpd wife’s jealousy over me going out to work, even though I need to work while she cares for our 3 little ones. I have worked less than I would have liked since baby arrived but it’s a fine balance because she does need my help sometimes. My wife is very maternal and adores spending time with her babies, breast feeding, co-sleeping, and being at home with them lots. But she craves adult interaction.

My wife has been in a long term split against me since baby 3 arrived, some days she’s ok with me or occasionally a little loving, and others she criticises me constantly and speaks of divorce etc.

We have recently moved to a new area but my wife has never had good friends anyway. But she is really struggling to make friends. She has tried many things like apps to meet people and Facebook, can’t go out with all 3 kids just yet as they’re so small. Even getting a friendly neighbour round for coffee has proved impossible. She has friends at slimming world (her only social occasion of the week), but is not finding they have time or wish to see her outside the group. So this lack of friends is a huge reason my wife hates me working. She is also jealous of me spending time with and getting to know new people.

On Monday she has an old friend who will be in the area but isn’t willing to come to us but apparently would love to see her. My wife needs me to come and help with the kids but I have already committed to work, (not having known about this situation) but we really need the money and it’s technically too late to cancel anyway cos I hate being unreliable. I constantly get accused of putting work before her and before our marriage.

My wife is also thinking of quitting slimming world because she keeps ordering takeaways and eating out of boredom and she’s using her credit cards. She’s even said to me “it’s not worth you going to work because of the amount of money I’m spending”. Sadly it’s true. I earn good money teaching piano, but only get paid at the beginning of each term. But having an advanced practice early education qualification, even as an agency worker, I only get minimum wage. Disgusting but true.

I’m doing well at handling all this, only in terms of the fact that there have been few arguments because I am now in the habit of validating without judgement and not Jade-ing. This helps to keep my wife calm, but it means that I’m not justifying my reasons for working, I’m not commenting on her overeating or overspending… where if she was a non-bpd person I feel I would be trying to work through these problems and feelings with her, but now I just leave well alone.

 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Notwendy]

I don't really know what to say to help. My BPD mother spends what she seems to want when she wanted. When my parents first married, I think my father was well off and could afford any indulgences. Over time though, the expenditures caused issues and the stress on him was obvious. Yet, there seemed to be no way to limit BPD mother's spending.

We kids left home, had our own jobs and my parents' finances were their own business but this has also become a recent issue with her in her elder years. So my only best advice is that, unless you put a limit on the money spending, it could continue. The limit for my BPD mother seems to be to spend almost all of it. Thankfully with the help of her family, we got her moved to an assisted living situation that is affordable to her before it got to that.

It's difficult and I feel for you. It may be marital property but it seems that it's up to you to set limits on her spending if she won't.

[Chief Drizzt]

Yea - I get this too - its been a problem for years - and in all honesty it has actually affected my performance at work.  Now that our kids are grown - last one at home is a senior and headed off to college soon - its gotten a lot worse.  She wants me at home with her as much as possible.  She doesn’t even want me going to church alone.  It’s frustrating.  I accommodate her as much as I can - but the church thing is going to be an issue - and that is something that just came up - so not exactly sure how to handle that one yet.  I stayed home the last two sundays - but I need to be there for my own mental health and spiritual strength. 

I’m retired military (30 yrs) but now teach high school and she is bothered that I work in a predominately female dominated career now - in other words she doesn’t like me being around a lot of women.  Not sure where this has come from as I have never cheated (nor would I) and I always keep things strictly professional with those I work with.  (Not to mention the fact that most of these “women” are young enough to be my kid - and that is the only thing that crosses my mind when I’m around them.) I guess she has gotten insecure with age - though she is an absolutely gorgeous woman and I let her know this all the time.  Still even though I don’t necessarily need the money - she likes having the extra income so I don’t think she’ll like it if I quit.  It’s just irritating that this issue of all these women keeps coming up - particularly when its not an issue at all.

[Bella2798]

Thankful Person, I'm so sorry you have to go through all this and face such situation alone. I remember a time when I used to daydream about a world in which my partner wasn't a person with BPD and I didn't have to face all these problems, let alone being the one facing them all by myself. It's not much of an ideal place to be. :-)

I can see the pattern of jealousy in my partner too. It wasn't obvious back then, but now I know it was jealousy that made him treat me that much cold whenever I was out with a friend. I had to hide my fun times from him, and even sometimes I would leave early to be with him when I had time to be out, instead of spending time for myself. Not that I didn't personally want to do that 100%, but anxiety was another reason too, because I didn't want fights/coldness.

I'm not sure if I can say anything helpful, but I was thinking that if your wife can't manage her spendings, maybe you could do the hard thing and help her with that. Sometimes having limits on financial stuff from someone else is more useful than struggling with it alone. Maybe even by some creative ways like investing that money on something all the family can benefit from, or even saving it in an old-fashioned way?

Hope that makes sense and isn't childish. My partner is sometimes into spending money recklessly, and it reminds me of some funny ways older women in my culture and country recommend to young married women, when their husbands spend a lot of money on their own families/friends instead of their marriage.

Wish you the best, dear. Take care.

[thankful person]

Thank you all for your thoughts, it’s good to feel I’m not alone with these issues but still stressful to have them.

I don’t have friends as such any more, but when I cut contact with them I realised what I had been fearing, which was that they really weren’t that bothered about me. Now though, I enjoy others’ company when I can. I do somewhat protect “caretake” my wife by not telling her if I’ve had a laugh with someone or got along with someone at work etc. I try not to walk on egg shells so much these days but on occasion it’s not worth the drama. It’s also like my wife can’t make up her mind about whether she wants to know every detail of my day or whether she wants to know nothing about my work, as she demands different things on different days. She used to demand whether I wanted to have sex with pretty much everyone I ever spoke about. At least she has stopped. I think I learnt not to fuel that fire.

Speaking again of Valentine’s Day, we did kind of celebrate even though we’re apparently still “not together”. We had agreed not to exchange cards. It was a strange day for me though. I was working in a reception class making Valentines cards with the children. I made one as a demonstration. My mind flashed back to 3 previous relationships where I always gave a hand made card from school, as well as a bought card, just because I had made it and it would be sad to throw it away. I left it with the others on the drying rack when I left class that day. It just wasn’t worth the stress and “risk” to take it home for my wife.

My wife also loves the idea of saving money so I’ll try to subtly plant that seed so she thinks it’s her idea. She manages to save when she’s into it but it’s challenging as she doesn’t have much income but we’re having a dog staying at the moment which is her job. It makes me laugh because actually I end up looking after the dogs but I don’t mind, it gets me out the house and she does the actual meeting clients etc which is good for her. I’m really hoping the takeaway addiction will slow down as my wife has bought lots of clothes for holiday and she’s happy they fit but wants them to look better if she loses weight. It is disturbing because she used to have an eating disorder and speaks of things like only drinking water for a whole week without food. But what I’ve found since I’ve been with her is that she doesn’t actually do it. She talks about many thinks that then don’t happen. I’m hoping she will not do this so much when the children are old enough to understand what she promised, but it is a concern. I’d love to be able to give them what she promised but that will be a whole new stage of asserting myself and angering her.

[Notwendy]

I try not to walk on egg shells so much these days but on occasion it’s not worth the drama.

I’m really hoping the takeaway addiction will slow down as my wife has bought lots of clothes for holiday and she’s happy they fit but wants them to look better if she loses weight.

But what I’ve found since I’ve been with her is that she doesn’t actually do it. She talks about many thinks that then don’t happen. I’m hoping she will not do this so much when the children are old enough to understand what she promised, but it is a concern. I’d love to be able to give them what she promised but that will be a whole new stage of asserting myself and angering her.

Sometimes we pick our battles with when to give in or what to stand up for. I think it is best to not rely on hope for change but to have a plan as to what to expect and what to stand up for. If the take out food could be done on some kind of schedule, not completely eliminated, maybe that helps? You could make a day of the week "take out day" and the other days cooking meals and even learning new recipes or how to make the same take out food only better. If you can turn this into a plus- like cooking together rather than a "taking away the take out food" it might be more effective and fun.

As to the not following through on promises, that is something we dealt with too but it's a part of the changing emotions I think. I think it's important that you follow through on yours so there is a parent they can rely on for that.

One thing to look out for with the eating disorder is this- my mother also has an eating disorder and she was always trying to be on some slimming diet but she was actually thin and not overweight at all. At puberty, there is a normal rapid weight gain and growth. This is the time BPD mother began to tell me I was too big. It was her own projection- I was not overweight, but it affected my self esteem and I was self conscious. For my mother, the "slimming" is not a temporary thing ( like trying to lose the baby weight after pregnancy) but an aspect of her BPD. Adolescents are normally insecure so be careful to reinforce their self esteem at this time.

[thankful person]

Thanks not Wendy, I know I hope for many things but I’m under no illusions, I guess it just helps to get through each day. I am listening so carefully to all your advice and warnings. I do think your mother has a lot in common with my wife, the main difference being that my wife is obsessed with wanting to do everything with the children, but this aspect is not so bad now we have 3 as she has had to relinquish some control and I love this change!

With the broken promises, so far I am not picking these battles because the kids are too young to be bothered by it. But the moment one of them is disappointed they’re not going to the park or whatever then I know that’s my time to step in and I think if I handle it well maybe my wife will change her mind and come along. It is much easier to change her mind if she doesn’t feel it’s a battle. Interestingly, there is a new common diagnosis these days in the children I work with (many have autism), and that is called PDA which means pathological demand avoidance. I definitely think my wife meets the criteria for this. There was another common one a few years ago called ODD oppositional defiance disorder, to me it seemed pretty much the same but I’m no expert. Anyway I plan to make it clear that I am going to the park with anyone who wants to come, as it was promised. I know this will meet resistance, but over time I “hope” it will be more accepted.

I will certainly do my best to build the children up through childhood and as teenagers. Another thing that concerns me other than weight/size, is my wife’s judgement of peoples choice of clothes, hair, make up etc. it feels like there’s only one way, her way, and everyone who doesn’t follow it “just doesn’t look good”. I’m glad I will be able to tell the children about how I used to listen to my wife when she told me not to wear certain things, but then one day I realised I could still choose to wear what I wanted against her wishes. Obviously I’m not talking about helping to keep girls safe by not wearing skimpy clothing etc, which I do feel is important. My wife takes this very seriously due to her history of sexual abuse. I’m more talking about her saying “don’t wear that because it looks silly”. Where I can understand that different generations and groups of people have different opinions on fashion, my wife doesn’t seem to get that at all.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Thankful -

Overspending was/is a big problem in our house.  Agreements and trust broken hundreds of times (credit cards opened in secret and maxed out, checking accounts drained multiple times etc). until I built stronger protective boundaries for our family.  No amount of budgeting courses, patience, rules, etc worked.  It is a lack of impulse control that is being fought. 

1) She had to recognize there was a problem.
2) I had to recognize the normal rules of a couple don’t apply and continuing under the same conditions was unsustainable.

Here is something I did where now I can sleep at night.  However it must be done as part of a joint discussion and agreement together or it could be construed as abuse.
1) Opened separate checking/savings accounts for only me.  My Paychecks go there. - no discussion needed on that one.
2) Froze her credit file so she can’t open credit cards without discussion as a family.
3) Joint account gets a weekly budget for things we need as a family - but it is limited in scope (only her gas, food, small amount of spending money for her.) and something she can work on to learn impulse control.  It was discussed in advance and she helped to set the value (I gave her three options) so there was buy-in.  It is not an allowance - it is a budget, and if I buy food - it is discussed in advance and deducted from this account.
4) Credit cards for her were cut up until she demonstrates consistent control.
5) She has her own money and she can do whatever she wants with it, but it is made clear that it would be nice if she contributed to the family same as me.  She can put this in the joint savings account (vacations etc.). I don’t control her money - because that is cruel and over controlling.
6) Emergency pre-paid gas card is in the car so our kids are not stranded.

So far no money has gone into the joint savings account, but if she drains the joint checking account - at least it is only for a week and she learns a painful lesson, and the family is not damaged because I have the true family finances (utilities, mortgage, savings, etc.) separated and paid from my accounts.

Sounds extreme, but when your trust has been burned hundreds of times and you have paid out over $100k in “I am sorry - it won’t happen again” , there is a point where a child/addict needs to earn the trust because they have proven consistently they are un-trustworthy.

Food for thought.  Take/adapt what works for you.  The key is not to walk the fine line of not being an abusing control jerk/ and protecting the family.

[Notwendy]

Outdoorenthusiast- it's good you have taken control of your family's financial well being and not allowed this kind of emotional spending to compromise that- while still giving your wife autonomy to spend some of it according to her wishes.

[thankful person]

Outdoor enthusiast, thank you for sharing these strategies. We are half way there with me controlling the money that comes in as I have my own account for business and I now pay all the bills. I give my wife an allowance. What do you mean by “froze her credit file”? The problem here is that my wife just keeps getting credit, even when they are agreements with creditors that she can’t afford to pay what she owes them. Cutting them up is pointless as Amazon has all the details (and back in the day she memorised them… I was impressed actually then I realised how much she used those cards).

[thankful person]

Oh and the “friendly neighbour” is now saying my wife messaging her is making her feel “uncomfortable”. My wife is not going to bother her anymore. This was a woman who was very keen to be friends initially and got my wife’s hopes up. I  know my wife has a history of being very needy with friends. But in this case she has kept messages conversational and only messaged a couple of times a week and occasionally suggested meeting up for coffee. The “uncomfortable” comment was because my wife messaged saying basically, “you clearly don’t want to be my friend that’s fine..” because her messages were being opened and ignored etc. I wish my wife could make some friends! I feel it would take the pressure off me needing to be there for her all the time. And she wouldn’t be so angry and moody when I get in from a day at work and it’s the last thing I need.

[Notwendy]

If someone has healthy boundaries, being with another person who doesn't have them can cause them to feel uncomfortable.

These feelings around other people are due to our own boundaries and are there to inform us. Boundaries can be too weak, or too strong and either could lead to problems in relationships (of any kind) . If they are so strong that they keep everyone out, then we may end up keeping out potential good friends. If they are too weak, we may have relationships with people who also have weak boundaries.

While BPD affects the most personal relationships the most, it can affect all relationships to some extent. Still, I think it's easier for someone with BPD to remain on a friendly basis with a non-family member and hope your wife can meet friends. My BPD mother has been able to have friendships with some people.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Outdoor enthusiast, thank you for sharing these strategies. We are half way there with me controlling the money that comes in as I have my own account for business and I now pay all the bills. I give my wife an allowance. What do you mean by “froze her credit file”? The problem here is that my wife just keeps getting credit, even when they are agreements with creditors that she can’t afford to pay what she owes them. Cutting them up is pointless as Amazon has all the details (and back in the day she memorised them… I was impressed actually then I realised how much she used those cards).

In the United States - there are 3 credit agencies that tell a person’s credit worthiness and all creditors reference them prior to extending new credit.  You can put a block/freeze on opening new credit without requiring a password.  It also prohibits damage from identity theft.  I am the only one that knows the password so it must be a family discussion about opening new credit.

As to the cards, report them as stolen and a new number will be issued by the company making Amazon stored numbers not work anymore.  It also thwarts the memorization.  This is effectively “cutting up the cards” digitally.

Keep in mind - blocking someone from funds is quite a controlling act and can be perceived as abusive, so it should be done only as a known consequence and discussed with the addict to protect the family from the addict.  There should always be some element of money that they can control (ie their own money, an allocation of the family budget etc) If not - then you will be seen as a controlling abuser.

[zondolit]

On Monday she has an old friend who will be in the area but isn’t willing to come to us but apparently would love to see her. My wife needs me to come and help with the kids but I have already committed to work, (not having known about this situation) but we really need the money and it’s technically too late to cancel anyway cos I hate being unreliable. I constantly get accused of putting work before her and before our marriage.

This is a situation where you can simply say you have a prior commitment. You do not need to solve this problem for your wife, though you may feel tempted to. You will have to ignore or otherwise put up with the accusations that follow. It is unpleasant, but if her accusations don't work, over time your wife may change course.

[thankful person]

This is a situation where you can simply say you have a prior commitment. You do not need to solve this problem for your wife, though you may feel tempted to. You will have to ignore or otherwise put up with the accusations that follow. It is unpleasant, but if her accusations don't work, over time your wife may change course.

Yes! Thank you Zondolit. I already did achieve this and I know you’re right. Actually I never expressed that I felt bad about working or was thinking of cancelling or how important it was to see the friend. I didn’t apologise for working that day. And there has been no drama about it. It was poor timing because it was the next day my wife got the text from the other person saying my wife was making her “uncomfortable”. My wife has a slimming world friend coming over on Monday when I have the day off so I’ll take the kids to nursery. I did agree to clean the house, haha people would think I’m crazy but I’m desperate to clean the place. And I really hope things work out with this new friend.

[thankful person]

Outdoor enthusiast, thank you for your further advice. It’s easy to get credit cards here in UK it seems, even once you’re “in an arrangement” because you can’t afford to pay your debts. I think I’m going to have to (without being controlling) try to set some consequences for specific overspending giving the reason that it’s unsustainable. I do feel partly responsible. When we sold our last place and paid off our debts, my wife wanted all of our credit cards destroyed. I didn’t want to close down my accounts for fear I wouldn’t get such good rates if it turned out I needed them. I didn’t want to be controlled, I wonder what would have happened if I didn’t keep mine but I doubt it would have helped.

[Notwendy]

I don't like to think this way, but I don't trust my mother to keep an agreement and she doesn't tell me everything- but my thoughts about your wife's idea to shut off the credit cards is that- I think it would apply to you, not her. It may not be that she meant this intentionally. She may believe in the moment that it was for both of you but then succumb to temptation and then not feel able to tell you. I think the spending is part of themselves "rescuing" themselves from their own uncomfortable feelings and so it's more than just a spending issue.

We were very concerned about how my mother would manage money when she was on her own. I tried to get some handle on her finances, for her, and she'd have none of that. We assumed that if she were to need to be in assisted living that the equity in her home, which had been paid for, would be sufficient for a very nice one. We found out by accident- while visiting her and seeing the paper for the loan- that she had taken out a home equity loan a while back and didn't tell us. This meant she'd already spent the money in savings that she had. We were upset- for her- that she has compromised herself when it might have been avoided, but I think her spending is also influenced by her emotions.

While I know you don't want to be controlling, it's a matter of financial sustainability that makes it necessary to have some way to limit the emotional spending to protect the financial well being of all family members.

[thankful person]

Thank you not Wendy. I am worried about this. If my wife had destroyed her credit cards it wouldn’t have been a problem to get new ones as she doesn’t seem to have the intention to pay them anyway so she isn’t bothered about interest rates. My cards are valuable to me because I’ve been a loyal customer so I get much better interest deals and use interest free balance transfers etc. My wife has even talked about taking out a loan secured against our house because she wants to buy a really cheap house to rent out and I think this idea is beyond ridiculous. How do you think I should approach this issue with her? It’s more about the food deliveries really right now. She has also gone a bit overboard with buying clothes for our upcoming holiday, but it’s true that nothing she has really fits her anymore. The kids need summer clothes of course but then everyone’s also having evening outfits. Me? I’ve bought nothing new, but a few outfits for the kids. I might treat myself to a new bikini. I don’t need much.

[Notwendy]

I really wish I knew. The issues is, it's a legal adult, with poor emotional regulation skills. Being married, you are liable for her debt right? That would be difficult. I have no control over my BPD mother's decisions, and yet it's difficult to watch her compromise herself.

My best advice is that this is emotionally driven, so reasoning and agreements may not hold for long. Keep as much of your money protected as possible- it may seem controlling but it's protecting your family and your children.

And go for that bikini!

[Outdorenthusiast]

Just googled and it seems like there are credit reporting agencies in the UK also (Equifax).  In the USA the agencies are Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian.  I went to their websites, logged in as her, and asked to freeze her credit so she can’t open any more cards or take on loans - they will get denied/blocked when she tries or applies for new credit.  You may look into it for your family.

[thankful person]

Just googled and it seems like there are credit reporting agencies in the UK also (Equifax).  In the USA the agencies are Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian.  I went to their websites, logged in as her, and asked to freeze her credit so she can’t open any more cards or take on loans - they will get denied/blocked when she tries or applies for new credit.  You may look into it for your family.

Thank you. Did you discuss this with your wife in advance, warn her of this being a consequence of overspending, and did you tell her you did it?

[Outdorenthusiast]

Thank you. Did you discuss this with your wife in advance, warn her of this being a consequence of overspending, and did you tell her you did it?

It was discussed after an incident (not before, and it wasn’t used as a threat), we agreed to do it together, and yes I told her it had been done.    If I hadn’t the discussed then that would have been clearly financial abuse.  We agreed jointly together in a reconciliation discussion after the incident it was best course of action to save our marriage and our family finances.  The incident was she opened 4 credit cards behind my back and maxed them all out with over $20k USD in the course of 4-6 months.   This is after dozens of similar incidents like this with always promises to never do it again.  I found the cards after running our annual credit review to ensue there was no fraud.  That particular incident happened three years ago - best move ever to freeze.  Of course she can still come and talk to me and discuss jointly the needs of the family, but now at least the spending is in a more transparent and not hidden.