Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
October 31, 2020, 08:32:35 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 4.10 | Positive Entitlement - Taking The Initiative To Share In Life's Riches  (Read 25421 times)
joiesophie
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1286


« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2010, 02:26:37 PM »

It comes from a story about a boy at school.  Everyone had to wear an ialac sign.  And if someone made you feel bad, you gave them a piece of your sign.

I Am Lovable And Capable.  (I  A L  A C )

js  cupidhit
Logged


blackandwhite
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3115



« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2010, 10:33:48 PM »

If I'm rejected... .if the outcome isn't what I wanted. What will happen?

Anker, okay, so what WILL happen? What's the fear there? At the root, there are beliefs about yourself and your place in the world that have been warped by your early experiences and probably reinforced by later ones. Getting at those beliefs and challenging them might help. So... .what will happen?

justhere, calling bingo to seniors, I LOVE it! What a wonderful example of positive entitlement, and you're helping others too.  xoxo

Releasing the outcome on this is making me crazy. I've been trying to tell myself that I am entitled to seek this dream, to apply for these programs, that I've worked my behind off to get to this point even. Also, can failure be a kind of positive entitlement? For example, having peace over not being perfect (read: not getting into the exact program I want)? This engrained perfectionist mentality is just really making me physically ill while I wait.

~ m

That's such a great question, minnares. I hadn't thought of it that way, but I think you're right. We've done so much trying to be good, it feels like one little failure or flaw will shatter us. But accepting ourselves and giving us some slack ("there once was a girl who wasn't perfect, but she was lovable anyway" is a kind of luxury. You're giving yourself room to take risks, to fail, to learn, to grow. (To call bingo to seniors.  Smiling (click to insert in post))

joiesophie, so so proud of you.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I'm thinking of trying positive affirmations, has anyone had experience with that? "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and doggone it, people like me."  Smiling (click to insert in post)

random, LOL! Well, I think changing self-talk is along those lines. I didn't so much develop affirmations as questioned my instinctive disaffirmations, if that makes sense.

So "you're no good at that" became "you may not be good at that, but you can try and it's an honorable failure." That sort of thing.

And BMama, how's your invoice look?  Smiling (click to insert in post)

B&W
Logged

What they call you is one thing.
What you answer to is something else. ~ Lucille Clifton
joiesophie
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1286


« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2010, 10:55:56 PM »

Thank you B & W for doing this thread, and thanks to all for sharing your journey.  It's so helping me.  Stuff I never thought of or considered as being okay to ask or think about.   xoxox

I used to think making mistakes was bad. Until today, I wouldn't have admitted that to anyone.  But apparently, that's another one of the 'misconceptions' I was taught.   Actually, I think I was 'told' that it was okay not to be perfect, but the actions that followed any mistake, taught me that I deserved the punishment for imperfection.  Having my crazysister answer the phone today took me off guard, and I thought that my panic attack was my 'punishment' for having the courage to call. 

B & W, I know this is going to sound a little, well, uninformed, but why are you proud of me?    I 'should' have been able to do this.

js

Logged
blackandwhite
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3115



« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2010, 11:06:50 PM »

Excerpt
B & W, I know this is going to sound a little, well, uninformed, but why are you proud of me?    I 'should' have been able to do this.

Joiesophie,

I'm proud of you because you're overcoming a lifetime of programming and FOG; because you're pushing a giant boulder back uphill and shifting the very stable system that is a highly dysfunctional family; because you're overcoming the most fundamental negative (false) beliefs we can have about ourselves, about our sanity and worth as human beings; and because what might seem a simple social matter to many is actually a tremendous act of courage. And YOU did it. Smiling (click to insert in post)

B&W
Logged

What they call you is one thing.
What you answer to is something else. ~ Lucille Clifton
joiesophie
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1286


« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2010, 11:10:14 PM »

thanks.  *tissues *    your 5 words with my name mean so much.

(can't count! - hey, I'm human! and that rock was big!   Smiling (click to insert in post))

js  
Logged
random
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 636


« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2010, 07:05:19 AM »

  joiesophie  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I'm starting to wonder how much of my fear/anxiety/white-knuckled terror is linked to negative unentitlement. When I make mistakes, or when I am having difficulties, I expect total annihilation from the world. I jobhunted the last couple of months with visions of never finding anything, of going hungry, of ending up homeless, that I would have a door slammed shut in my face no matter where I go or what I try. Now, after reading this thread and thinking about this stuff, I wonder if this level of fear, which is so powerful and automatic, is linked to this whole idea that I have no rights as a person and deserve no compassion or mercy.

When the terrors descend, now I sometimes remember that I do have rights, that I CAN ask for help and get it, that I am not a terrible being who deserves capital punishment and erasure, that I am a good person.

It's helping some.
Logged
joiesophie
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1286


« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2010, 07:23:50 AM »

  Random!

Thanks for your words!

You put into words what I was feeling yesterday.  I didn't deserve... .'no compassion or mercy' 'total annihilation'.  It's not new - it happens everytime I do something that is 'not foo like' or 'foo approved'.

Actually, I felt this way when I was 6 years old and broke the toaster.  KNEW that I would be punished severely - thrown out on the street.  Even though 6 years old is a loong time ago,  I remember being SO confused that my NPDfather was  surprised that I was so upset. 

Go figure.  The training starts early.

js

Logged
random
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 636


« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2010, 07:27:59 AM »

Excerpt
The training starts early.

That's a real key right there. We were trained to think of ourselves as worthless. Now we have to train ourselves to think things that to other people are so automatic - that we have worth and we have rights.
Logged
Cordelia
formerly salome
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1465



« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2010, 08:16:27 AM »

When I make mistakes, or when I am having difficulties, I expect total annihilation from the world. I jobhunted the last couple of months with visions of never finding anything, of going hungry, of ending up homeless, that I would have a door slammed shut in my face no matter where I go or what I try. Now, after reading this thread and thinking about this stuff, I wonder if this level of fear, which is so powerful and automatic, is linked to this whole idea that I have no rights as a person and deserve no compassion or mercy.

Me too!  I've always had a fear of being homeless and on the street, which is strange, because I've never had that experience, and logically, there are many things that would have to go wrong for it to get to that point (not that it could never potentially happen, but not only I but all the people in my network basically would have to be facing insurmountable difficulties... .unlikely).  But this anxiety definitely motivates me to want to please people and go above and beyond what is expected of me professionally.  It's so hard to break out of this mentality!  I think many people experience it... .
Logged
random
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 636


« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2010, 08:29:32 AM »

You too? OMG, I thought I was the only one. I'm serious.

Excerpt
I've always had a fear of being homeless and on the street, which is strange, because I've never had that experience, and logically, there are many things that would have to go wrong for it to get to that point

My health care professionals kept telling me this, my friends kept telling me this, and it did nothing to allay the terror.

The thing is, I faced a situation where I was in real crisis several years ago - I got bullied at work to the point where I was completely debilitated by depression and physical injury (computer overuse), and I quit, at that point completely incapable of working. Quitting was stupid, because any doctor, after evaluating me, would have backed up a disability insurance application, which my benefits offered, but aside from that, I ended up moving into a horrible roommate situation and applying for welfare. Which sucked, but it was still not the street! The welfare people kicked me to the unemployment insurance people, who not only gave me the coverage but lectured me on building better self-esteem and how I should have left that situation ages before things got that bad. The system turned out far kinder to me than I ever was!

Something to think about.
Logged
BMama
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married 18 years.
Posts: 2485



« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2010, 12:43:30 PM »

You guys really are tougher than you give yourselves credit for.  I can see it, and I only know you here.  You are survivors just for making it TO adulthood.  You all have such beautiful words, you are capable of not only facing your lives, but helping all of us to face our realities, too... .AND supporting us as a bonus!

 &  xoxox

As for the invoice... .I could lie and tell you I sent it out full price... .but I didn't.  I gave 75% effort when I kept hitting a brick wall, so I did bill to what level I worked.  I can admit that much.  I really slowed down on the dialing, made fewer phone calls per hour than I was capable of... .it sucked to have people tell me no.  I'm definately not a sales person... .and this telemarketing thing is not for me.  I don't think that is weakness, just honesty.  I have better skills more fitting to other niches, like file organization, snail and email campaigns, newsletter and website design, flyers, etc.

I probably should concentrate on marketing those, and not taking these type of jobs just because I have a hard time saying NO.  THAT is the core issue here.  I never should have taken this job to begin with.  I did give the client some calling statistics to let her know what results the calls were getting her for her money.  It's the wrong course of action, and I hope she sees this.  If I lose a client, then we weren't a good fit.

SMACK ME SOMEONE!  LOL
Logged


livingw/ochaos
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 1699


« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2010, 02:17:19 PM »

I'm jumping into this thread very late . . .

But I've been thinking a lot about this lately.

I have horrible problems with positive entitlement.  I feel absolutely frozen about it.

A couple of years ago, I won a raffle prize at a festival.  It was a gift certificate for this cute little French bouquite.  I loved this store.  I loved everything in it.  But when I went to redeem it, I could only seem to make myself look for something I could gift to someone else.  But it was impossible, although this store was a place I LOVED, it wasn't easy to find anything in it that someone else I knew would love.  I finally decided to force myself to purchase something for myself . . . but I couldn't do it.  I went back to that darn store four separate times DETERMINED to purchase something for myself and came back empty handed every time!  I finally threw the g.c. away! 

But I have another problem with Positive Entitlement . . .

Somewhere along the line I got the message that I had to fake positive entitlement in order to make other people feel better.  For example, I always ask for an appropriate amount of money when I work.  I don't do this because I think I deserve it.  I do it because if I charge enough for my services, it makes others feel like they are getting a good service. 

Once when I was a just this frightened shell of a girl, a h.s. teacher really admonished me harshly for not being able to take compliments.  She said it made me ungrateful.  It didn't, of course.  Compliments made me uncomfortable . . . nervous . . . scared . . . I would literally feel like throwing up if someone complimented me.  But her railing on me scared me to death.  I learned immediately that I needed to accept a compliment (just fake my way through it) not because of how it would make ME feel, but because how it would make OTHER people feel.

I just don't know how to retrain myself.  RE: how to make positive entitlements about me and not about others.
Logged
BMama
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married 18 years.
Posts: 2485



« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2010, 06:23:37 PM »

I have trouble with compliments, too.  This is something I have worked on.  I was with my uBPDm one time, we were chaperoning a field trip of my daughter's.  All three of us were standing together, and another mother said, "Wow you guys all have beautiful blue eyes... .and I see where DD gets them!"  uBPDm just looked weird at her.  I said, um, stumble, um thank you?  :)D says, thank you!  My eyes are my favorite part of me!  How differently we responded sort of astounded me.  I used to say something really ignorant to minimize whatever someone was complimenting me on.  After I got a lesson from my own daughter, I have rethought getting compliments. Now I just say thank you, and return a compliment if it's appropriate.  It still feels REALLY weird.
Logged
blackandwhite
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3115



« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2010, 07:10:56 PM »

I'm jumping into this thread very late . . .

Somewhere along the line I got the message that I had to fake positive entitlement in order to make other people feel better... .Once when I was a just this frightened shell of a girl, a h.s. teacher really admonished me harshly for not being able to take compliments.  She said it made me ungrateful.  It didn't, of course.  Compliments made me uncomfortable . . . nervous . . . scared . . . I would literally feel like throwing up if someone complimented me.  But her railing on me scared me to death.  I learned immediately that I needed to accept a compliment (just fake my way through it) not because of how it would make ME feel, but because how it would make OTHER people feel.

I just don't know how to retrain myself.  RE: how to make positive entitlements about me and not about others.

This is a very good point, living w/chaos. Getting a compliment or otherwise having attention drawn to you or heaven forbid, having an entitled expectation, was generally downright dangerous to many of us growing up. Trauma reactions (such as what you have to compliments, it sounds like) are very self-oriented. They're not selfish; I just mean that the body is going into fight or flight mode, and it's not really possible to respond in a genuine way to another person about something like gratitude for a compliment. We can't be bullied or shamed into better self-esteem (as your high-school teacher attempted to do  xoxox).

On the other hand, sometimes acting "as if" (as if you were responding normally) can help you get there. It has for me with compliments, and when I started saying thank you and smiling, seeing that it went quite smoothly, I got less anxious and began to enjoy the attention a bit. But it sounds like that's not been working for you.

Dealing with the trauma reaction is one thing--that's getting therapy, working the Survivor to Thriver Steps, doing mindfulness practice, or whatever might be helpful to you.

Working on positive entitlement, maybe baby steps? BMama (thank you for your very honest report on the invoice, by the way  Smiling (click to insert in post)) took an entitlement assignment and made some progress. Can you sign on for a small assignment? Could you go back to that store and buy yourself something small? (Just an idea.) BTW, I also once threw a gift certificate away, to a day spa, because I just couldn't imagine allowing myself to be pampered in that way and I was too embarrassed to give it to someone else and have to explain. I've gotten over that inhibition, glad to say.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
I have better skills more fitting to other niches, like file organization, snail and email campaigns, newsletter and website design, flyers, etc.

I probably should concentrate on marketing those, and not taking these type of jobs just because I have a hard time saying NO.  THAT is the core issue here.  I never should have taken this job to begin with.



BMama, those sound like two very clear areas to work on and that's a good thing! Can you work on marketing for your preferred niche? How about turning down the next job that's a bad fit? Maybe write yourself a note about that "I will say NO the next time the answer should be NO" and leave it by the computer or phone?

A big message I'm hearing from several of you is this:

lack of positive entitlement = lack of safety

Is that right? So does the opposite formula hold true?

positive entitlement = safety

If so, then we should all be very motivated to work on positive entitlement. Not feeling safe, not valuing or trusting ourselves, is the legacy we inherited, but it's not one we have to keep.

We are entitled to feel safe. We are entitled to feel trust in ourselves and those who have earned it.

B&W
Logged

What they call you is one thing.
What you answer to is something else. ~ Lucille Clifton
midgelette
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 166


« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2010, 08:25:50 AM »

What's your definition of "positive entitlement"? How might "positive entitlement" relate to your life?

Ok, I am giving this a whirl. In being a member of my enmeshed dysfunctional PD foo, there are things that I nave not felt entitled to. So, I will turn them around.

I am entitled to be with people who have values that I also hold.

I am entitled to be paid what I am worth for my work-a very difficult one for me as I often feel incapable and I'm not. (I had one boss who kept giving me a raise, and I would tell him no- it was too much-he said, Well, I may not be able to pay for your therapy to get over that, but you deserve a raise.)  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I am entitled to love, appreciation, support and respect as I offer this to others.

I am entitled to my own life without feeling guilty or obligated to foo's needs.

Midgelette

Logged
random
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 636


« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2010, 08:30:22 AM »

Excerpt
lack of positive entitlement = lack of safety

positive entitlement = safety

Blackandwhite, can you say in more detail what you mean? Do you mean that if a person lacks positive entitlement, they feel unsafe, or that if a person lacks positive entitlement, they end up in unsafe situations? Or that negative unentitlement results from growing up in an unsafe environment?

Logged
midgelette
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Divorced
Posts: 166


« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2010, 09:03:56 AM »

Excerpt
lack of positive entitlement = lack of safety

positive entitlement = safety

Blackandwhite, can you say in more detail what you mean? Do you mean that if a person lacks positive entitlement, they feel unsafe, or that if a person lacks positive entitlement, they end up in unsafe situations? Or that negative unentitlement results from growing up in an unsafe environment?

Random-Wow, that makes so much sense to me. I can see that playing out in all aspects of my life. When we don't feel emotionally safe-cause it is what we have grown up with, we continue to avail ourselves to the same lack of a safe & positive environment. That definitely sounds like a lack of positive entitlement to me.
Logged
blackandwhite
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3115



« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2010, 09:58:29 AM »

Excerpt
lack of positive entitlement = lack of safety

positive entitlement = safety

Blackandwhite, can you say in more detail what you mean? Do you mean that if a person lacks positive entitlement, they feel unsafe, or that if a person lacks positive entitlement, they end up in unsafe situations? Or that negative unentitlement results from growing up in an unsafe environment?

Sorry, random, that's what I get for posting late at night! The quick answer is all of the above, as midgelette pointed out! I was summarizing a point I heard you and others making. Something you said about your recent fears and feeling unsafe seemed to stem from lack of entitlement to help, support, and basic human kindness or recognition:

I'm starting to wonder how much of my fear/anxiety/white-knuckled terror is linked to negative unentitlement. When I make mistakes, or when I am having difficulties, I expect total annihilation from the world. I jobhunted the last couple of months with visions of never finding anything, of going hungry, of ending up homeless, that I would have a door slammed shut in my face no matter where I go or what I try. Now, after reading this thread and thinking about this stuff, I wonder if this level of fear, which is so powerful and automatic, is linked to this whole idea that I have no rights as a person and deserve no compassion or mercy.

If you feel that alone and unworthy, then of course you feel unsafe. In the worldview described above, you truly are alone in the world, which is a scary, cold, unfeeling place. And yes, I think that feeling very much stems from growing up in an environment that felt/was unsafe. I know I've been looking for safety--for HOME--all my life. It's because I've found it, or rather felt entitled over time to build it brick by brick, that I do, finally, feel safe.

As you said, reminding yourself that you are entitled to compassion and mercy just like any other human being, that you do have rights as a person, gives a feeling of greater safety:

Excerpt
When the terrors descend, now I sometimes remember that I do have rights, that I CAN ask for help and get it, that I am not a terrible being who deserves capital punishment and erasure, that I am a good person.

It's helping some.

You also asked if someone feels unentitled if they're more likely to end up in unsafe situations, and I think the answer is certainly YES. If you don't value yourself, you don't protect yourself. I added the thread about red flags in relationships to our lessons to the right ---> because I thought it was such a great addition to help us become more aware of potentially unsafe relationships. But probably the key thing we can all do to increase our safety is to develop our sense of positive entitlement. Turning what I said just now around: If you value yourself, you protect yourself.

From the lessons (and many of the great pointers in this thread are from you, random!):

Red flags in relationships

Trauma survivors are often described as having "broken pickers," meaning the self-protective instincts most adults have are skewed or missing for those who experienced trauma early in life. Learn how to identify "red flags" early on in relationships and teach yourself to be a better "picker" when you invite new people into your life.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=112466.0

Logged

What they call you is one thing.
What you answer to is something else. ~ Lucille Clifton
BMama
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married 18 years.
Posts: 2485



« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2010, 01:20:30 PM »

Wow, this is one of those topics, as probably all of them are, that cross over.  No wonder we get off topic so easily.   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Good connection, B&W.  Never thought of it that way.  I'm so used to being terrorized by my mother, I've never thought that it's "okay" to stand up to her and say NO--rather I'd just cower down and wait out the storm.  However that manifests itself... .re: the safe vs. unsafe issue.

Yes, I will stop taking telemarketing jobs.  I will just be honest when I say that I would love to help them, but it's not something I feel entirely comfortable with, and therefore have difficulty with it.  Weakness, although, I was weaker than my mother to some extent, was not tolerated.  Saying NO.  I can soften the blow by asking if there is another task I can help them with.  If not, I will ask them to keep my information for future projects... .ending on a positive note.

This job, I can't wriggle out of just yet.  I kept call statistics so she would know what my answer rate was, out of the calls I DID make.  She wants to discuss them today and make some suggestions.  To be professional, of course, I'm going to see what she says, and see if I can make it work.  I think she likes my demeanor and phone voice.  I'm probably more suited to an inbound call type job where people are calling ME, not me cold calling.

Logged
joiesophie
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1286


« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2010, 01:55:02 PM »

I think I just got used to 'shelter in place' for so long that I don't  realize that I could stand up for myself.  Weird thing is, that, when I do, nobody from the interior foo gets angry.     They just move on... .

I'm the one that's been holding on... .

It's time to let go now... .again... .

js
Logged
random
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 636


« Reply #80 on: February 15, 2010, 05:54:11 PM »

Excerpt
I know I've been looking for safety--for HOME--all my life. It's because I've found it, or rather felt entitled over time to build it brick by brick, that I do, finally, feel safe.

I think this safety/haven/HOME is what I was looking for, when I looked to other people for rescue. Unfortunately, I ended up walking into a trap both times, with mom and with the evil "therapist".

I'm starting to understand that it's healthy to need safety, but that I am the one who has to put it into place. It's OK to ask for help, but the task itself starts and ends with me, no one else can be trusted with it the way I trusted those two. I am the SEO, president of the board and uber-chairman of my safety, everyone else is hired help  Smiling (click to insert in post)

That's something I learned here, on these boards.

Excerpt
I'm probably more suited to an inbound call type job where people are calling ME, not me cold calling.

Cold-calling is very, very hard. I would rather eat broken lightbulbs, personally.

One way you can view it so that you don't feel guilty for turning down these types of assignment is, you tried. You gave it an honest, good old college try and you discovered that it's not something you are good at. Your time is better spent doing things that you ARE very good at, or seeking those things out - it's a better business decision and a better use of your time and energy.
Logged


justhere
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 655


« Reply #81 on: February 16, 2010, 04:36:06 PM »



blackandwhite I can see how this lack of positive entitlement has affected my life and I don't know how I got to this place of awareness after years of being 'enmeshed' and living in the 'FOG' but only that I can't continue in the old ways. I wonder if my abusive lifestyle has burnt itself out or maybe I'm just burnt out? I want so much to share what I'm learning with my family but I know I have to take this one step at a time.

blackandwhite I do recognize the 'red flags' and know that something is wrong even sometimes within minutes of meeting a person but still go ahead with the relationship anyway. I seem to be attracted to the most difficult and I'm not sure if this is a form of self-sabotage or if it's just the challenge that I'm looking for or I'm repeating/reliving a previous failed relationship. .

I also think that some of my thinking has to do with my view of caring or empathy like not wanting to discriminate against people on the basis of their behavior or that I shouldn't judge another but this kind of thinking may have more to do with 'keeping me in my place.' As I have been programmed to think... .'I shouldn't get to big for my britches', I shouldn't 'expect' or 'want' or even 'question' what I already have as that was being greedy, prideful, selfish or ungrateful, so with these things ringing in my ears every time I try to succeed it's a wonder how I ever get anywhere.

Most of the concepts that I am learning on this board are opposite to what I grew up thinking, so this is going to take a while to fully sink in.

justhere

Logged
random
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 636


« Reply #82 on: February 16, 2010, 07:12:25 PM »

Excerpt
not wanting to discriminate against people on the basis of their behavior

Waitwaitwait. How is discriminating against people on the basis of their behaviour a bad thing? It's not even discriminating - it's just having a response and an opinion of a person. It's not wrong! Judging people because of things they can't help, like their physical ability, or skin colour, or culture, judging people based on what they are is discrimination. Judging people based on their choices and behaviour is an absolute right and must! Judgement in this sense is not negative, it's having a basic set of ideas about right and wrong, and applying them to behaviour is a necessity, otherwise ye basic civilization and society becomes impossible and degenerates into chaos. You can't have laws or any fundamental social contract without saying "behaviour X, Y and Z is A-OK, behaviour A, B and C is wrong and we don't allow it."

There is such a thing as too much tolerance. And having the right to a point of view about how other people behave and treat you is definitely part of positive entitlement. Basic human rights, even.
Logged
BMama
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married 18 years.
Posts: 2485



« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2010, 07:17:36 PM »

I agree Random.  We've all been taught to accept lots of contradicting behaviors, and put up with varying degrees one extreme to the other from our BPD's.  It's hard to really KNOW what is acceptable for someone to do to us, or how they should act around us.

'I shouldn't get to big for my britches', I shouldn't 'expect' or 'want' or even 'question' what I already have as that was being greedy, prideful, selfish or ungrateful, so with these things ringing in my ears every time I try to succeed it's a wonder how I ever get anywhere.

That's called the FOG.
Logged
justhere
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 655


« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2010, 08:10:15 PM »



I hear what you random and BMama are saying and I know my boundaries are seriously lacking. I guess it didn't help working years(since I was 18----that's 40 years) with people who are mentally ill and mentally challenged so I know I have normalized some pretty strange behavior. 

It's really difficult being taught to accept outrageous behavior and deal with it on a regular basis from people who I have come to be very fond off and then trying to have a different standard for my personal life especially when I would rather be at work any day then at home. I used to joke that I went to work for a break but it was no joke.

justhere


Logged
random
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 636


« Reply #85 on: February 16, 2010, 08:59:01 PM »

Ah, OK, it makes sense that you didn't want to write off people for acting weird, if you deal with mentally ill folks professionally.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Big diff between behaviour that is eccentric by social norms and behaviour that is abusive though. People are fully welcome to the former, but not at all welcome to the latter, where I am concerned.
Logged
anker
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: in a good relationship now with a kind fellow
Posts: 631


« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2010, 08:35:52 PM »

I am astill tryin to figure out what I'm so scared of... .

I have actually been homeless twice in my life and maybe living through that is why I feel ok with my material situation and work. Nothing can be as bad as that was.

With relationships I still have a terror though.
Logged
Waiting to Exhale
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Single
Posts: 993



« Reply #87 on: June 20, 2010, 11:56:13 PM »

I am entitled to unconditional love; not the kind of love that has conditions of, "If you love me then you'll... ."

I am entitled to respect.

I am entitled to be myself without feeling like I'm shackled by my parental units words.

I am entitled to have my own space, without it being infringed upon. 

I am entitled to give myself presents without being asked a million questions.

I am entitled to living my life free of guilt and manipulation.

I am entitled to not being emotionally blackmailed.

I am entitled to have my needs, whether mentally, emotionally or physically met.

I am entitled to be treated like a person rather than a play thing.

Logged
blackandwhite
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: married
Posts: 3115



« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2010, 09:55:58 PM »

I love your list, Telyva!

Excerpt
I am entitled to respect.

This is sure an important one. What does respect mean to you? What does it look like in the context of your relationships? Self-respect?

B&W

Logged

What they call you is one thing.
What you answer to is something else. ~ Lucille Clifton
BMama
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married 18 years.
Posts: 2485



« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2010, 04:05:06 PM »

That's me, B&W. 

I always feel a need to take on more responsibiltiy than necessary, and over-explain my way out of something if I mess up, or get caught in an embarassing situation.  I'm getting better at this.  Before I would call, I'd rehearse over and over and over in my head what I was going to say so the person ont he other end of the line would completely GET that I was sorry, repentant, etc. 

I've started to realize that no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes.  I wasn't be the first one to do "whatever" it was, and won't be the last.  Like yesterday... .I had my carpet cleaned by a professional.  I've been trying to keep up with it myself for the past five years to save money... .it just got away from me, and out of hand.  I told him I was sorry he had to scrub a little harder, and that I was embarassed it had gotten so bad (which is part of the reason I kept putting it off).

The guy says, "It's okay... .this is hardly the worst I've ever seen, I promise."  Usually, I'd think, he's just saying that to make me feel better... .but yesterday, I just thought... .he's not lying.  I know, I've been in other people's houses.  LOL

Respect... .what is the definition formally?  How do we know if we are being respected and being respectful to others.  This is timely as I'm working on some communication issues in T regarding my relationship with my hubby.  We obviously have a lack of respect problem between us, both ways.  I'm just so used to doing things the old way... .but feeling resentment towards him because of it. 

Maybe this is a new topic altogether?   Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Links and Information
CLINICAL INFORMATION
The Big Picture
5 Dimensions of Personality
BPD? How can I know?
Get Someone into Therapy
Treatment of BPD
Full Clinical Definition
Top 50 Questions

EDITORIAL DEPARTMENTS
My Child has BPD
My Parent/Sibling has BPD
My Significant Other has BPD
Recovering a Breakup
My Failing Romance
Endorsed Books
Archived Articles

RELATIONSHIP TOOLS
How to Stop Reacting
Ending Cycle of Conflict
Listen with Empathy
Don't Be Invalidating
Values and Boundaries
On-Line CBT Program
>> More Tools

MESSAGEBOARD GENERAL
Membership Eligibility
Messageboard Guidelines
Directory
Suicidal Ideation
Domestic Violence
ABOUT US
Mission
Policy and Disclaimers
Professional Endorsements
Wikipedia
Facebook

BPDFamily.org

Your Account
Settings

Moderation Appeal
Become a Sponsor
Sponsorship Account


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!