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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Yep, Here Comes The Dealer  (Read 2970 times)
semidevastated

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« on: March 08, 2010, 09:04:19 AM »

Last week I posted about trying to get out of this mess of an abusive relationship that I have been involved in. Recently, I got tired of the pattern of behavior, and I found someone else-- a woman who is attractive and nice.  The BPD ex of mine just found out who this person is and basically lost it. I have been getting text messages and phone calls ever since--they don't focus on me or our relationship as much as they focus on what I am doing with this new person.  I'm just so upset that I spent three years with this person, and I don't think she cares about me as an individual. I was just an idea... .a means to an end--someone to abuse.  Now, I just believe she is upset because her ploy of withdrawing backfired and now she doesn't know what to do.

The problem is that I know the emails are going to start here in a little bit, and I just dont know if I can keep from interacting with her. I miss her... .but... .I... .realize... .that... .I'm... .an... .idiot... .if... .I... .do.
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AcadiaRush

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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 09:31:16 AM »

I am new here as well and also in a delicate phase with a "she loves me - she loves me not" BPD mate. I must confess, I somewhat envy you a bit because you have discovered someone else that appears to be or feel right. Through the course of my experience, I tried very hard to understand what was going on. The fact that I became more aware of the dynamic happening and that her actions often were not "willful," did not alter the end result - that of feeling torn apart and often, on the empty and "waiting" side of the "relationship" (and, I use that term loosely here). I would only give some caution... .You are in a very vulnerable place, having been at the end of what could be viewed as an emotionally abusive experience. Your insides are raw like hamburger and it is such a release to relate with someone who appears to be in a healthy state of heart and mind. It probably feels like you just climbed a rough mountain trail to the top where you can now sit down and take in the view. Drink from this well but pace yourself. From the way that you wrote, it appears like you may already be doing this and not being drawn into the drama. If so - good luck!
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semidevastated

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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 09:37:21 AM »

thanks, acadia... .i am just afraid that she is going to say, "maybe i made a mistake here. i miss you."  if that happens, i know it will just be temporary.  i will have left someone promising and i would most likely be right back where i am right now in two months or so... .at that most.  i just dont know how to shake the feelings i have for her.

i always used to tell her, "you are so random. i dont undertand."  she would scream at me and say, "you have a reason for everything you do!"  i never understood what was going on... .three years later and i still dont.  i dont want to fix again for sure... .it could cost me so much... .
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 09:56:09 AM »

Hey semidevastated I am in exactly the same sort of situation as you. I was also with mine for nearly 3 years and just sick to the back teeth of all the abuse. I also have found someone amazing. So kind, so funny, so unBPD! But I can't let go of my BPDex. I just can't. Why? All the abuse all the crap. I had so much fun with him when he was not raging, but I cannot cope with the other 70% of Borderline... .It's a tough situation and if you want to talk I am here! Maybe I can help!  x
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 10:02:27 AM »

You are not obviously ready for a new relationship; but at least you are seeing some light at the end of the abusive trainwreck your BPDex was.  Try to go NC on your ex; which would mean no txt msgs, email, calls or snooping around profiles.
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semidevastated

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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 10:23:43 AM »

thank you for the advice---i guess my biggest problem is wondering, am i just as sick as she is for not being able to shut the valve off in my mind that causes me to think about her?  who would ever agree to be involved in anything that is only 20% good and about 80% bad?
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AcadiaRush

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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 10:24:00 AM »

By no means am I the knowledgeable one who is speaking at the end of a difficult journey. I am also in midst of a whirlwind. However, coming to understand some things that are happening, helped me keep a better sense of where my center is, and how her and I have a big difference in our sense of what reality actually is. The BPD that I have been in love with, usually means what she says "when she is saying it." To add an insight to this... .our relationship is a little over a year old but we have known each other for many years - since the teens. There were 30 plus years in-between while we had separate lives. Five years after her divorce, we got together. The important clue is that, our relationship is a relatively new one, as far as everyone in her existing circle of friends and family knows. Because she does not have a stable sense of who she is, and because she has a strong fear of abandonment at her core, she fears rejection or disapproval from any friend or family member about our relationship. She has a deep rooted fear that friends and family (her lifelines) will "pull away" from her. Basically, the sensitive side of her is suppressed to accommodate, our relationship, and ultimately me, becomes the roadkill. In her mind, it is not about denying me, it is about loving her friends and family and protecting those relationships. A victim of some past abuse (in this case 2 years of incest) is often taught (by the abuser) that their shyness, their sensitive side, their feelings are of no consequence and must be suppressed in order to survive. The BPD adapts by suppressing their feelings that are focused on their own wants and needs. Taking care of the feelings of the other is accepted. It can become further complicated, as in my BPD's case, when the BPD child cries in front of the other parent or siblings but is scolded for "being too sensitive," not realizing the root of the problem. The BPD is left with the deeply felt belief that no one is interested in who they are or what they think and feel. It is always trumped by the one who has the say and control. Fearing abandonment, this is always the one they are relating to at the time, and once parted, transfers to the next. A BPD may become very skilled at deflecting attention away from their true feelings where the hope for a love or even more important, their depression lays hidden. Sensing their own vulnerability, and being demoralized by a sense of their "weakness" as they often view themselves (or their sensitive, hurting side), they develop a personality presentation that is, again, used as a mask and protective mechanism to deflect attention away from themselves. This is often the opposite of their side that loves us. So here begins the negative feedback loop that traps them. People around them believe the negative and tough presentation, perhaps getting the message that you are the problem or that you and she are not compatible, but she cannot tell them the difference without blowing her "cover" of being the weak, and sensitive, in want of love self. They often freeze at this point. The very act of suppressing her feelings may act as a trigger, bringing up the deeply hidden repressed feelings caused by the original abuse. The depression cycle begins. What the BPD is often left with is the wrong conclusion that your relationship is directly related to the depression that showed its face. Up come the doubts. Therefore, the relationship must be at fault and bad.

Sorry for the length. It is a complex thing to explain. It may not apply to your situation, but there is a chance that part of it will.
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semidevastated

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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 10:34:20 AM »

No, it is exactly what I am dealing with--thanks.  I never could understand why her perception of reality was so skewed. I mean, everyone throws out cliche jokes about women being unstable or something like that, but... .this wasnt the same thing.  The points she would make about our relationship just weren't true. I became all that was bad in her life when all I wanted to do was help... .I guess it had less to do with me and me wanting to help and more to do with her needing the attention. there was always a drama. always something for me to fix--only she wouldnt let me do it.  now, when faced with the realization that she is going to have to live without me and that in the eyes of many that i may have "traded up", she is most likely going to have to look at herself---or is that even possible when dealing with borderline?  maybe i will just always be the "lying hit_" and other girl will be "the whore."  nevermind that i hung in there as long as i could... .always praying for her return.
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AcadiaRush

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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 11:03:02 AM »

I guess that the real conclusion is that, we can never do it for them, and they can never fully accept what we say because of the trust fears they have. Ultimately, it comes down to them taking the responsibility to start on the road to healing. If this has not been done or there appears to be no awareness or desire on their part to take such a move, we still have to take care of ourselves. Life waits for no one.
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semidevastated

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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 11:07:57 AM »

why cant they just own a mistake or two?  what is so hard about that?  why do they have to project everything? i feel like i was involved with the only perfect person who has ever existed--in her mind anyway.
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AcadiaRush

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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 11:21:30 AM »

This is why it is so important to focus on yourself for a while. Having a strong sense of who you are and where your "center" is makes a huge difference in how you brave storms like these. It is important to have a strong sense of what "having healthy boundaries" means. I have read some of the articles offered on this website/forum, and find them to be insightful and helpful. If you don't know where they are, try hitting the "Home" link above (when signed in). Fortunately, I was someone who always had a strong sense of this from an early age. It took me a long time to realize that many people do not. Much of it has to do with our own "self-image." This is a very deep and personal place that we all should become familiar with and explore. Ancient Greeks, who discovered democracy, distilled their wisdom and knowledge to one short sentence: "Know Thyself"
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turtlesoup
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 11:49:27 AM »

why cant they just own a mistake or two?  what is so hard about that?  why do they have to project everything? i feel like i was involved with the only perfect person who has ever existed--in her mind anyway.

Well, unless we dated the same person this can't possibly be true! I remember me and exBPD had a conversation once, we were talking about personalities and how they are formed etc, she told me that she spent several days and night just locked in her room thinking about her personality and I said to her "and you've settled on this"... .needless to say, there was a taxi home for Mr Turtle within 30 minutes.
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VB
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 12:15:56 PM »

She told me that she spent several days and night just locked in her room thinking about her personality and I said to her "and you've settled on this"... .needless to say, there was a taxi home for Mr Turtle within 30 minutes.

I know you shouldn't laugh, but that  made me laugh! It is like something I would have said!
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semidevastated

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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 12:31:50 PM »

seriously... .the thing is, i thought that i had a good grasp of myself before the last three years! now... .yeah, im lucky to remember what planet im on half the time.  as far as their personalities go... .man, she would go in and out of tone all the time. it was like talking to the monster from the exorcist the majority of the time... .and if i took umbrage to it, forget it! the whole day was shot.  then, after the major blow up, she would say--"i just want to have some peace.  you just want to fight all the time."
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2010, 12:34:57 PM »

why cant they just own a mistake or two?  what is so hard about that?  why do they have to project everything? i feel like i was involved with the only perfect person who has ever existed--in her mind anyway.

Because they are mentally ill.
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turtlesoup
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2010, 12:40:58 PM »

seriously... .the thing is, i thought that i had a good grasp of myself before the last three years! now... .yeah, im lucky to remember what planet im on half the time.  as far as their personalities go... .man, she would go in and out of tone all the time. it was like talking to the monster from the exorcist the majority of the time... .and if i took umbrage to it, forget it! the whole day was shot.  then, after the major blow up, she would say--"i just want to have some peace.  you just want to fight all the time."

I hear you, I think we all got this from time to time, I certainly did, they minimise the effects of how they behaved and say "i just needed some time to think" or something like this, but no apology, god no.

I do think that BPDers certainly process things way way slower than we do. About a year in I was understanding this and really just left her to her own devices when she would go hulk on me. However, as their other great problem is abandonment, my walking away from her going hulk just served her to throw tennis shoes at me. You're damned if you do and yer damned if you don't. I know how you are feeling I've in a constant state of "what the hell happened" for two months now. The only way I can deal with it is to try and see the funny side and to feel relieved I am not there anymore.
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semidevastated

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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2010, 12:45:37 PM »

exactly! when we would argue, she would pick out things that i said or did... and then i would respond by saying, "but you said this other thing right before!"  she would claim that it didnt matter. it was then that i realized that everything i said or did was supposedly done in a vacuum and she had no hand in what occured at all. it was just me being evil.
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2010
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2010, 01:10:45 PM »

Excerpt
am i just as sick as she is?  who would ever agree to be involved in anything that is only 20% good and about 80% bad?

Well, hopefully not your new relationship- but that is exactly what you are giving her.

By bringing her into an already dysfunctional, not really broken up- still going on- "relationship" -you are plain and simply using her. Otherwise known as, please save me- I need you as a Human shield to fend off, disable and otherwise harm my former partner. And really, I'm not sure if this thing with my former partner is over, because she's still on my mind and in my heart... .so if I appear to cling to you for help- I'm sorry- please bear with me. It's all about me, not you. This has nothing to do with you.

Am I getting this right?

You could talk about the abuses of your BPD ex until the cows come home, but if you aren't ready to see your own behavior- you'll never understand the importance of knowing yourself.



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semidevastated

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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2010, 01:24:39 PM »

hmmm... .maybe. i have fully disclosed my situation with the current girl though.  i just dont know what the correct way of getting out of this type of deal would be... .ive proven to be pretty awful at it over the last two years... .have proven too weak to really leave.
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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2010, 01:35:55 PM »

Excerpt
i have fully disclosed my situation with the current girl though.

What you have done is form a triangle. Triangulation (read definition) can also be used as a label for a form of "splitting" in which one person plays a third person against the person that they are upset about. This is playing the two people against each other.  The third person can either be used as a substitute for the direct communication, or can be used as a messenger to carry the communication to the main party. Usually this communication is an expressed dissatisfaction with the main party.

       * The person who is treated as, or accepts the role of, a victim (YOU)

       * The person who pressures, coerces or persecutes the victim, (YOUR EX)

       * The rescuer, who intervenes out of an ostensible wish to help the situation or the underdog. (the new girl)

The covert purpose for each 'player' is to get their unspoken psychological wishes met in a manner they feel justified, without having to acknowledge the broader dysfunction or harm done in the situation as a whole. As such, each player is acting upon their own selfish 'needs', rather than acting in a genuinely adult, responsible or altruistic manner.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108384.0
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semidevastated

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« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2010, 01:48:13 PM »

yikes... .i think the deal was that i was just so emotionally starved that i was just wanting to be involved with anyone that didnt make me want to die.
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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2010, 01:50:10 PM »

So, who's the dealer now?
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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 01:56:33 PM »

P.S. You're not going to die, even though it feels like it. These people are soulmates because they get to the inside of things in a soul searching manner. Think of it like a growth spurt- a very, very painful growth spurt- where you're going to take some time to be ALONE. And in that time you're going to get to know all of these feelings- without using other people for pain relief.

You'll come out of it a stronger Human being, aware of yourself and your potential in life. I promise. At the moment, it doesn't feel that way- but you'll get through it.
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semidevastated

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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2010, 02:09:27 PM »

i dont know... .all i can say is that i have not responded to the ex for several days and that never would have been possible before.  every minute seemed like an eternity. i never had any strenghth at all... .
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2010, 02:51:06 PM »

DAMN IT 2010 I LOVE YOUR POSTS!  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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recovering
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« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2010, 02:56:28 PM »

why cant they just own a mistake or two?  what is so hard about that?  why do they have to project everything? i feel like i was involved with the only perfect person who has ever existed--in her mind anyway.

I can relate to your sense of frustration on this one.  Especially when it is so CLEAR.  Just ONE mistake.  My ex told me yesterday - I CANNOT accept one bit of criticism, one bit of judgment. Not ONE.  And, he's going to counseling.  How that's going to work, I don't know.  The second the counselor asks him to look at his own behaviour, I think he'll be out the door.

It's irritating.
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semidevastated

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« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2010, 03:17:04 PM »

the whole time i apologized for things i had no business of ever apologizing for... .just to keep the peace. just to make the world go round... .its no way to live... .no one is ever 100% to blame for anything... .and that is the way my borderline ex lived for sure... .i was always to blame... .all the time.
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2010, 03:29:02 PM »

the whole time i apologized for things i had no business of ever apologizing for... .just to keep the peace. just to make the world go round... .its no way to live... .no one is ever 100% to blame for anything... .and that is the way my borderline ex lived for sure... .i was always to blame... .all the time.

I use to do the same thing, apologized for things that didn't even envolve me. But I was just trying to keep peace for my kids. I got to a point where I felt I was the problem for everything. I even began to look for therapy for PTSD and Anger Management. My reality was so twisted I didn't know which way was up or down. I guess it was due to sleep deprevation with the late night arguments and me having to wake up only a few hours later to go to work.  Also his constant push/pull. I'm just glad that is all behind me and I never have to deal with it again.
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SoMuchPain
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« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2010, 05:42:23 AM »

By no means am I the knowledgeable one who is speaking at the end of a difficult journey. I am also in midst of a whirlwind. However, coming to understand some things that are happening, helped me keep a better sense of where my center is, and how her and I have a big difference in our sense of what reality actually is. The BPD that I have been in love with, usually means what she says "when she is saying it." To add an insight to this... .our relationship is a little over a year old but we have known each other for many years - since the teens. There were 30 plus years in-between while we had separate lives. Five years after her divorce, we got together. The important clue is that, our relationship is a relatively new one, as far as everyone in her existing circle of friends and family knows. Because she does not have a stable sense of who she is, and because she has a strong fear of abandonment at her core, she fears rejection or disapproval from any friend or family member about our relationship. She has a deep rooted fear that friends and family (her lifelines) will "pull away" from her. Basically, the sensitive side of her is suppressed to accommodate, our relationship, and ultimately me, becomes the roadkill. In her mind, it is not about denying me, it is about loving her friends and family and protecting those relationships. A victim of some past abuse (in this case 2 years of incest) is often taught (by the abuser) that their shyness, their sensitive side, their feelings are of no consequence and must be suppressed in order to survive. The BPD adapts by suppressing their feelings that are focused on their own wants and needs. Taking care of the feelings of the other is accepted. It can become further complicated, as in my BPD's case, when the BPD child cries in front of the other parent or siblings but is scolded for "being too sensitive," not realizing the root of the problem. The BPD is left with the deeply felt belief that no one is interested in who they are or what they think and feel. It is always trumped by the one who has the say and control. Fearing abandonment, this is always the one they are relating to at the time, and once parted, transfers to the next. A BPD may become very skilled at deflecting attention away from their true feelings where the hope for a love or even more important, their depression lays hidden. Sensing their own vulnerability, and being demoralized by a sense of their "weakness" as they often view themselves (or their sensitive, hurting side), they develop a personality presentation that is, again, used as a mask and protective mechanism to deflect attention away from themselves. This is often the opposite of their side that loves us. So here begins the negative feedback loop that traps them. People around them believe the negative and tough presentation, perhaps getting the message that you are the problem or that you and she are not compatible, but she cannot tell them the difference without blowing her "cover" of being the weak, and sensitive, in want of love self. They often freeze at this point. The very act of suppressing her feelings may act as a trigger, bringing up the deeply hidden repressed feelings caused by the original abuse. The depression cycle begins. What the BPD is often left with is the wrong conclusion that your relationship is directly related to the depression that showed its face. Up come the doubts. Therefore, the relationship must be at fault and bad.

Sorry for the length. It is a complex thing to explain. It may not apply to your situation, but there is a chance that part of it will.

okay yes, the whole thing behind i hate you - dont leave me. 

what bugs the crap out of me is that my ex would say that she is ALL ABOUT caring for others.  that it is ALL SHE DOES.  well ... .i don't know about what she really does for everyone else, but when it comes to me, she is not there for me.  not in the slightest.  i have even just asked her to be my friend, stay in my life.  to that, i got a text message from her phone from her new gf (whom she gave the phone to in order to harass me).  this is what i get for telling her how much i love her, and how beautiful she is.  so ... as much as i wanted to sit and think "oh well, deep down it's all just a defense mechanism, etc" (which she has even tried to tell me), what difference does it really make?  i have defense mechanisms, but at the end of the day, i see what i was doing and apologize.  she does not.  she has turned into my abuser and seemingly does not care.  i will NEVER understand her, NEVER seem to get through to her ... .and even if i sit and say, "well she must've loved me SO much she had to push me as far away as possible" ... .well oh well ... .there is no breaking through.  because if you believe that this is all just to see that someone won't abandon them -- well i'm pretty sure she'd hold a knife to my throat to prove i'd abandon her before i could EVER make her believe otherwise.
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