Can you be friends with your exBPD?

[lieslieslies]

You can be a friend to them!

I dont think it is possible for them to be a friend with you!

All relations with a BPD is one way.

But being a friend to them is possible. You have to have great boundaries in place and no thoughts of being anything else but a friend. The moment you cross over from being just a friend to them to even thinking about restarting the relationship, your right back where you started from... .

Being a friend to them also means you take for granted that their lies and manipulation is part of who they are.

If you have any emotional attachment to them, I would suggest NC. I remember when just hearing her voice on the phone sent me into a tizzy, same thing happened with texting.

hi fb,

as always, so well discribed, but I had it, as you know, from that I said no to fs after

I went and then we went back on r/c again. can you "explain" the retarded way of this as it feels like so chilsish to go from relation to friends and as soon as sex is on the schedule they think we are a pair again. happened to me in an earlier re-engagement where after act she said "great, then we had that done... .2 ? "  so cracy just like thats the whole point... .so... .

3L

[ShredHead82]

The sad thing is- there is no truth, no validity to anything they say- and where there is no truth- there is nothing. There never was a friendship, relationship, anything of any kind- the non is is just a floating random thought in their head- sometimes an obsession, sometimes nonexistant. I have enemies I have better relationships with- at least it's consistent.

[Im.okay.now]

My ex was the same to her friends as she was to a romantic partner. Who needs it ?

And why on earth would anyone want to be friendly to anyone that has done dastardly deeds to them is beyond my comprehension ? Civil yes if they happened to find themselves in the same room but friendly ... .NO WAY !

I might have felt differently when i was still walking through the fog but that's how i see it today.

[2010]

Brrrnnnng! Brrrrrrrng! (phone rings)

BPD ex answers: Hello? Oh Hi Butterfly!

New Squeeze: Who's that?

BPD ex: It's Butterfly.

New Squeeze: What does she want?

BPD ex: She's just a friend.

New Squeeze: Um, She was more than a friend, right?

BPD ex: We broke up.

New Squeeze: So, why does she keep calling here?

BPD ex: We're just friends... .

New Squeeze: Are you telling her stuff about me?

BPD ex: of course not.

New Squeeze: Well, how would you like it if I kept talking to my ex boyfriend?

BPD ex: Go ahead.

New Squeeze: Fine! I'll call him right now!

(And you can see where this is headed.) 

Unfortunately, when romantic relationships dissolve, the friendship that remains between a Man and a Woman needs rules and well defined boundaries.

Without well defined boundaries- lines can be crossed if one or the other person feels lonely and reaches out for comfort and soothing.  Too often people become vulnerable and cross a line and unfortunately everybody gets hurt in a triangulated relationship.

Grieve the relationship. Let it go. Otherwise you will torture yourself waiting for the phone to ring or wondering if you can call or not. It's not a friendship - it's a habit.  You've got to kick the habit.

Learning to self-soothe is the most important life skills we can accomplish and that means turning away from former lovers as friends. When we feel the need to get a confirmation that we are ok from someone, sometimes it better to just look in the mirror and tell yourself you'll be ok.  Take a hot shower or bath, play some music, read a book. The feelings will pass.  Sometimes its all we can do to just wish our former friends well and leave it at that.  Soon there will be new friends to call.

[C12P21]

Learning to self-soothe is the most important life skills we can accomplish and that means turning away from former lovers as friends. When we feel the need to get a confirmation that we are ok from someone, sometimes it better to just look in the mirror and tell yourself you'll be ok.  Take a hot shower or bath, play some music, read a book. The feelings will pass.  Sometimes its all we can do to just wish our former friends well and leave it at that.  Soon there will be new friends to call.

This is very true. The feelings are very overwhelming in the beginning but practising these skills helps and knowing that eventually they will go away, it just takes practise, faith, and time. And a therapist for perspective and support   helps during the dark times.

Affirmations written and posted around the house helps to reinforce that you will be okay.

My exNPDbf wants to be friends, my answer to him was this-  a part of me would be honored to be your friend as I remember the aspects of your personality I enjoyed, the reality is you suffer from a disorder. You will probably not seek professional help and will continue this pattern for the rest of your life. As a friend, I could not pretend that it doesn't hurt me to watch you sabatoge yourself and others as you work through unresolved childhood pain. The situation is hopeless, my relationship with you wouldn't be genuine and I wouldn't respect myself for having a shallow relationship. It would bother me to listen to your lies and manipulation so no, I cannot be your friend, please stay away from me and do not contact me.  I love me way more than I love you.

It hurt like heck to write those words and repeat them every time he contacts me because I know it really is over and the end. But each time, it hurts less.

[Dorian]

No, absolutely not.

After the relationship ended the FOG started to lift and I began to see what kind of person she really is.  A selfish, lying, manipulative and desperate loser with addiction demons. 

She kept asking me to be friends for the first month after she left me.  I could sense that it was only to absolve her guilt (if she is capable of it) and repair her social image with friends and family ("Oh xxx, he's fine. We had coffee and it's all cool between us.".

Here's how our final phone conversation started off:

Her: "how are you doing?"

Me: "I could be better."

Her: "I'm glad to hear that. I knew you'd be ok."

Me: "I said I'm not doing well.  I'm not doing ok."

Her: "Look, I said I'm sorry. Things happen. I fell in love with someone else. It DOES happen you know. It's pretty tragic really, I'm going to write a novel about it."

Me: "I don't want to be in your novel."

Her: "Fine, I'll leave you out of it.  You know I'm doing so good. I've never been better... ."

[squaredots]

That chimes with my experience totally. Mine wanted to convert our relationship to 'just friends' in order to keep me in the system. I triggered her rage so frequently and intensely, but she didn't want to lose me completely... ' I can't think of anyone else I would rather do X with . . .'.

This was billed as 'a way ahead'. To me it felt like a deeply manipulative head fry - as if I was invited to a ring side seat where I could watch her have her cake and eat it. Of course I was accused of being very controlling when I suggested this was a 'loaded' situation. She said 'No it's not, we're just friends' . . .  after several years of this on off style relationship, talks of marriage etc.

To her the being friends part is a way of changing her mind set, in other words, as in all BP manouvres, she's rearranging the furniture in her head. Iit has very little to do with relationship or real world objects and events and takes no account of the reality that the other may be experiencing in their emotional world. People are just actors in the great BP drama. All that's happening is you get recast into a role in which they think they can handle or control you.

In one practical sense, she is precisely right, but her solution neatly places the blame on me for triggering her, and avoids the whole BP issue. Quite a neat side step and one in which she hopes to achieve a perfect working solution to her conflicting needs. Sadly I have declined to take up my part, hence precipitating further ruction and anger . . .

[Butterfly03]

What is it about all of our exBPD's? Thay all seem want to be "friends" and hold onto us after we bust up with them. So they can abuse us, lie to us, manipulate us, control us and then absolutely hurt us with their unemotional ways of finding someone else then they turn around and expect us to be friends? It just doesn't make sense to me... .

Butterfly

[Dorian]

This was billed as 'a way ahead'. To me it felt like a deeply manipulative head fry - as if I was invited to a ring side seat where I could watch her have her cake and eat it.

Yes, I felt the same way.

To her the being friends part is a way of changing her mind set, in other words, as in all BP manouvres, she's rearranging the furniture in her head. Iit has very little to do with relationship or real world objects and events and takes no account of the reality that the other may be experiencing in their emotional world. People are just actors in the great BP drama. All that's happening is you get recast into a role in which they think they can handle or control you.

squaredots, you've nailed it.  We are but actors on their stage. It's the narcissism.

What is it about all of our exBPD's? Thay all seem want to be "friends" and hold onto us after we bust up with them. So they can abuse us, lie to us, manipulate us, control us and then absolutely hurt us with their unemotional ways of finding someone else then they turn around and expect us to be friends? It just doesn't make sense to me... .

Butterfly,

There is so much of my exBPD's behavior that I can't understand.  For some things, I've found it's best to just file it away under "things mentally ill people say and do."  Don't drive yourself crazy trying to figure it out. 

[sarah1234]

he is trying to force me to be some sort of friend with him, but to me it just feels like it would be a green light to behave like that all over again. He also wants us to be sex friends  

We tried being friends for a short while, as before I really knew about BPD I thought it was the nice thing to do. I like to be friends with  people. You dont have to call your friends every day, or see them every weekend do you? Well yes, with someone with BPD you are expected to? It just made things worse. He would start his cycle of Thursdays nagging about what my plans were, and then spend all weekend trying to totally ruin my plans with friends that I was having sex with someone else.

Even if I was, he was only my friend so so fricking what?  

Friends are meant to be FRIENDLY and like you!

this would be a typical convo between us as 'friends'

Him: are you ok? I haven't heard from you for ages (probably about 1 day)

Me: yes I am working, busy with kids I am fine. Are you ok then?

Him: What are you doing this weekend

Me: I have plans with friend &&&& and stuff around the house (female)

Him: well I thought we could go for dinner and talk

Me: Dinner? why? well I have plans sorry

Him: I miss you, thought we were friends. Why can't we meet and talk?

Him: I know you have met someone else, why can't you just tell me?

Him: If you have met someone else just tell me. Its not fair. You know I still love you. You are my best friend and I can't believe everything has gone wrong and you wont even meet me for dinner

HIm: this is your fault as well that everything has gone wrong. You mess with my head. I would not have done those things if you hadn't messed with my head. Why do you hate me so much? pls reply

Me: *blah blah blah blah trying to reason with all that hit_*

Him: If you were not such a flirt I would trust you. You was always flirting with people. You didn't even have it on facebook that you was in a relationship the whole time we were together!

Me:  WE ARE NOT IN A RELATIONSHIP NOW THOUGH?

Him: *silence until later when he decides to ruin my weekend further*

[Hannahbanana]

Mine has asked this of me, I think I would rather wear a tiolet plunger on my head.

C

  i can't get rid of this visual now!

This is something i am actually trying (not the toilet plunger thing... the friends thing) because he requested it when he contacted me in January.  It is becoming more and more obvious to me that it is not going to work, at all!  We have already had an argument and 5 times or more, he has accused me of writing quotes in my profile aimed at him, threatened me with "maybe we shouldn't speak any more" x 3, and told me i am nasty x 2.  All since Jan 27th and i am still walking on eggshells speaking to him.

[sarah1234]

I dont see how it can work. The one time I did allow him to take me out for dinner as 'friends', I ended up paying for it and he got really drunk

When I stood up for myself and put down some boundaries and went NC he went off the deep end. turned up at my house middle of the night, calling me over and over and over.

I make a little wish every night now that he has met the new girl. It has now been a few days with no attempted contact from him. The longest in a long while. We have been broken up for 6 months or so!

[goldenblunder]

No, absolutely not.

After the relationship ended the FOG started to lift and I began to see what kind of person she really is.  A selfish, lying, manipulative and desperate loser with addiction demons. 

She kept asking me to be friends for the first month after she left me.  I could sense that it was only to absolve her guilt (if she is capable of it) and repair her social image with friends and family ("Oh xxx, he's fine. We had coffee and it's all cool between us.".

Here's how our final phone conversation started off:

Her: "how are you doing?"

Me: "I could be better."

Her: "I'm glad to hear that. I knew you'd be ok."

Me: "I said I'm not doing well.  I'm not doing ok."

Her: "Look, I said I'm sorry. Things happen. I fell in love with someone else. It DOES happen you know. It's pretty tragic really, I'm going to write a novel about it."

Me: "I don't want to be in your novel."

Her: "Fine, I'll leave you out of it.  You know I'm doing so good. I've never been better... ."

Wow, mine says she's writing a book, too.  This is the second post about yours that sounds EXACTLY like mine.

[unknown]

she was one of my best friends before we started dating. its been a year, and i can tell you i would NEVER want to be her friend again after what ive seen and how ive been treated.

[Dorian]

goldenblunder,

Did yours think of herself as a writer?  Mine was obsessed with being a writer but had never gotten anything published.  I really tried to like her writing and I was even convinced I did like some of it while we were together.  I always tried to encourage her to follow her dreams and submit to contests and magazines, etc, to get published.  But a lot of her writing was, quite frankly, pretty awful.  She was always working on a book or story but would drop it and switch to something else before finishing anything.

[C12P21]

What is it about all of our exBPD's? Thay all seem want to be "friends" and hold onto us after we bust up with them. So they can abuse us, lie to us, manipulate us, control us and then absolutely hurt us with their unemotional ways of finding someone else then they turn around and expect us to be friends? It just doesn't make sense to me... .

I think it is due to a few things, if they are narcissists then it follows the pattern. Narcissists hate being ignored, they much more enjoy getting a response and either being loved or hated by people but certainly not treated with indifference. The other pattern is holding on to their narcissistic supply, yours is no longer fresh and exciting but luke warm narcissistic supply is better than none! They can turn to you in a pinch if they need adoration and excitment.

If it is BPD, I suspect it is due to their own unresolved emotions and feelings, they know they feel something for you, or how they felt around you, but haven't the emotional stability or self awareness to understand their own feelings, motives or emotions and they aren't going to waste much time figuring it out.

That is why as much as this hurts to remain N/C and as much as I miss all the fun and him,  I know it is a dead end street. I was just a tool to him. I have to remind myself of this every day. No friendship and no contact. And it isn't because I hate him, it is because it would be like returning to an addiction. I need to heal.

[ozzanoid24]

not even close to possible.  Ask yourself , how can you be friends with someone that treated you the way they did? How can you be friends with someone who cannot feel empathy and will only use you for themselves.  NO NO NO.  Honestly ask yourself why would you want to be friends with someone like that despite all you have read and all you know about BPD. Its not some miracle cure that they wake up someday and "all better" no more BPD.  IT doesn't work that way... .

[WhyMe?]

Butterfly, I am trying but at times the "friend" rollercoaster is more difficult than the relationship was.

[Butterfly03]

I think it is due to a few things, if they are narcissists then it follows the pattern. Narcissists hate being ignored, they much more enjoy getting a response and either being loved or hated by people but certainly not treated with indifference. The other pattern is holding on to their narcissistic supply, yours is no longer fresh and exciting but luke warm narcissistic supply is better than none! They can turn to you in a pinch if they need adoration and excitment.

If it is BPD, I suspect it is due to their own unresolved emotions and feelings, they know they feel something for you, or how they felt around you, but haven't the emotional stability or self awareness to understand their own feelings, motives or emotions and they aren't going to waste much time figuring it out.

That is why as much as this hurts to remain N/C and as much as I miss all the fun and him,  I know it is a dead end street. I was just a tool to him. I have to remind myself of this every day. No friendship and no contact. And it isn't because I hate him, it is because it would be like returning to an addiction. I need to heal.

I know my ex is definately BPD I am not quite sure bout narcissist, though there have been instances where he has come across that way. The very last message I ever received from my ex read like this;

"Thanks for everything like not helping me out not being my friend not picking up your phone when I've been calling not giving me my dvd when you got your gifts. Thanks again ****** (my name)"

What is the go with that?... .was he just trying to get a rise out of me or desperately trying to hold on to what was left in his way? Any ideas... .

Butterfly

[C12P21]

Butterfly,

It seems more like BPD than Naricissim. NPD usually wouldn't "lower" themselves to an emotional outburst as they view emotions as beneath them. No matter what the disorder, what a crock after all he has put you through. He is trying to get a reaction from you... .

Stay strong and to the course, you deserve better.

C

[Butterfly03]

Thanks for your reply C12P21,

I never replied to that message the police rang him instead to tell him to leave me alone... .was he trying to get me to go off or was he trying to get me to blurt out all my feelings for him? What do you think?

Butterfly

[goldenblunder]

goldenblunder,

Did yours think of herself as a writer?  Mine was obsessed with being a writer but had never gotten anything published.  I really tried to like her writing and I was even convinced I did like some of it while we were together.  I always tried to encourage her to follow her dreams and submit to contests and magazines, etc, to get published.  But a lot of her writing was, quite frankly, pretty awful.  She was always working on a book or story but would drop it and switch to something else before finishing anything.

She would talk about it, and I think she would work on writing once in a while, but it was more about her obsession about writing about how interesting/messed up her life is.  Her dad would always encourage her because of all the crazy stories she has to tell.  I'll admit it isn't boring stuff.

But yeah, she never really finished anything that I got to read.  The last I have heard of this on and off project was just last week, when she mentioned it again.  I do think that it has something to do with her efforts to avoid responsibility by attributing all of the chaos in her life to external factors.

[squaredots]

The thing that gets me about the 'friends' bit is that it all sounds so reasonable on the face of it. You will inevitably be made to look like an unreasonable idiot for turning away. What is being offered is to keep the good bits of the friendship, but BPD is by nature an engulfing condition. Friends, family, pets - no one is spared. Being a 'friend' will not spare you the rage and you will inevitably be split bad or seduced and discarded - again . . .

[Valentine09]

goldenblunder,

Did yours think of herself as a writer?  Mine was obsessed with being a writer but had never gotten anything published.  I really tried to like her writing and I was even convinced I did like some of it while we were together.  I always tried to encourage her to follow her dreams and submit to contests and magazines, etc, to get published.  But a lot of her writing was, quite frankly, pretty awful.  She was always working on a book or story but would drop it and switch to something else before finishing anything.

OMG, This is freakin' incredible!  Thank you for writing this. My exBPDgf was adamant that she was a writer and that her poetry was out of this world.  She even has it on her myspace page that she LOVES TO WRITE.  But you're absolutely correct in that it's mostly all awful.  The only thing she writes really are text messages.   She has made it a point in arguments to tell me that she's a writer after I tried correcting her speech.  This is very validating to hear this, and is further proof that she is BPD.  

I never got to read it, but she told me she once wrote a poem about abortion for school, and it didn't go over very well.  I can only guess what she wrote was quite off the wall.  She seemed to have a lot of projects that were unfinished as well.  Writing for Hallmark was one of her dreams and she said she could do way better work than they are producing.  I told her to send them some of her poems and she made up some excuse about how she couldn't do it.  I even told her it would be fun to write a children's book together and she wouldn't take me up on it.

She also fancied herself as an artist.  She had the nerve to tell me once I wasn't artistic, and I attended art school, and wrote her a song, all kinds of stuff, haha. She was good at origami, but mostly she just did typical crafts stuff with magic markers, glitter and Elmer's glue. I wonder why they are obsessed with calling themselves writers/artists?  

[C12P21]

Thanks for your reply C12P21,

I never replied to that message the police rang him instead to tell him to leave me alone... .was he trying to get me to go off or was he trying to get me to blurt out all my feelings for him? What do you think?

I think he was just trying to get some reaction from you, some response. I suspect he wouldn't care if it were positive or negative, just the satisfaction of knowing you responded and he is still a  in your head.

They despise being ignored but are incapable of resolution hence it is a darned if you do and darned if you don't situation. You know your feelings, your thoughts and your behaviors, they don't.

C

[PennMicheleG]

My BPD husband and I have been separated for a year.  We have a daughter (18) at home.  When we first split we were both quite nasty and it was hurting our daughter.  We called a truce and agreed on a friendship.  I was naive and assumed the term "friendship" meant the same to both of us.  Anytime I relied on him as a "friend" it always came back to bite me in the butt.  Everything with him had a price and I grew tired of selling out.  Thinking back though I don't believe it was friendship I desired from him, just an end to the hostilities.  I can't go NC because of our daughter, so I have to keep the hostilities at bay by being his friend; although I cannot trust him to be a friend to me.  Very one sided, but that's nothing new 

Let's face it, if our exBPDs were capable of mutual friendship they wouldn't be our exes.

[C12P21]

My BPD husband and I have been separated for a year.  We have a daughter (18) at home.  When we first split we were both quite nasty and it was hurting our daughter.  We called a truce and agreed on a friendship.  I was naive and assumed the term "friendship" meant the same to both of us.  Anytime I relied on him as a "friend" it always came back to bite me in the butt.  Everything with him had a price and I grew tired of selling out.  Thinking back though I don't believe it was friendship I desired from him, just an end to the hostilities.  I can't go NC because of our daughter, so I have to keep the hostilities at bay by being his friend; although I cannot trust him to be a friend to me.  Very one sided, but that's nothing new 

Let's face it, if our exBPDs were capable of mutual friendship they wouldn't be our exes.

Very true, I am in a similar situation with my exBPDh, I have to work on being polite and civil due to our children, it is exhausting at times. Take care.

C

[rek]

YOU ARE GOOD AT THIS! I never write in all caps, but hell do you seem firmly planted on the sanity track.  Sure, I think I'm on it too, but then find myself looking up at the last minute only to get nearly get smacked again.  I don't know how it works that I am sure I'm on the right track, then round the corner here that hit_ train comes.  Sht.  And it repeats over and over.  But you, you are good.  You're like, yeah, I'm just gonna stand on this track casue it's the right track. When a train comes down this track, it's because it's  going to stop and let me get on to somewhere new.

[KMTTP]

IDK... .would it make a difference if it were female/female instead of male/female?   I think that most times, when the relationship is most intimate... .is when the 'BPD behavior' so to speak comes out most.  I can't rule out friendship... .as friends, it would be easier to set boundaries than being in an intimate relationship.  Again... .IDK.   It is not something I am even contemplating now anyway... .way to soon for me.  It's gonna take years at the rate I am going! 

[jalk]

Absolutely not! She is liar and a cheat! How could I be friends with that? She wanted to... .but not me. I knew better. She has no boundries.