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Author Topic: Do a lot of nons have similar backgrounds to BPs?  (Read 1440 times)
kly
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« on: March 08, 2010, 05:00:22 PM »

I needed to start a new thread, I tried to pack too much into the other one.

I read the new proposed criteria for BPD, and also the thread on what the main characteristics of BPD are, and I wonder if a lot of nons are drawn to BPs because they have similar backgrounds.

It seems to me that a lot of nons are givers and saviors.  While BPs are the other end of the spectrum.

Maybe the question should be.  WHY are some nons the savior types? 

Thoughts?
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 05:36:34 PM »

There are three common responses for children in family of origin dysfunction: identification, compliance and rebellion.

Identification is the imitation of one or both parents. The child must exhibit the same qualities, values, feelings and behavior that the parent uses to defend his self-esteem.

Compliance is the child becoming a human shield from moment to moment to help the parent manage threats to his or her self-esteem.

Rebellion is the state of the child fighting back and *not* accepting the dictates of the parents by acting in opposition to them.

We all fall in one or the other. You have to decide where.

Givers and Saviors are compliant. They are also afraid of their own success and need to have a failure to solve in order to feel comfortable. They suffer a loss of direction and purpose in life without a care patient to care for (the substitute for the early parent) They have a tendency to feel isolated and a difficulty connecting emotionally with others unless they feel needed. They have a tendency to accept blame for other people's problems, relinquish control by trying to control others and usually suffer mistreatment without complaint, maybe even without awareness that it is happening... .

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PotentiallyKevin
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 05:38:11 PM »

We hook up with borderlines because it is familiar to what we were used to in childhood, same goes for them.

I came from a chaotic family. One healthier parent (mother) and one abusive parent (father). She came from a chaotic family. One healthier parent (father) one abusive parent (mother).

I identified more with my mother - the nurturer and caregiver.

She identified more with her mother - the torturer and warden.

When the honeymoon phase ended, my nurturer personality kicked in a full throttle the same way my mother did for our family during chaotic times. IT WAS FAMILIAR, and I played the role to a T.

The really messed up thing is, when the honeymoon phase ended for her, the example of her mother kicked in, and the more I nurtured, the more she tortured... .just like she was used to seeing her mother do during her childhood.

Was I necessarily attracted to her because she was able to fill my childhood roleplaying? Perhaps. But, regardless of why I was attracted to her, the familiarness of the situation allowed me to stay in this relationship and not question it, because this was crap I was used to seeing, so why should I think it wasn't "normal?"
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 05:54:01 PM »

I grew up in a stepfamily after my mother died and my father remarried and his new wife and he had children.

My father is also an alcoholic.  My stepmother is a piece of work; we have never been close.

I was pretty well ignored and learned to cope by having a strong extended family in the form of close friends, one of whom's family took me in when I was a teen.

It is interesting to me, now that I am examining it, that my two most recent romances, my husband and the exBPD are with men who are "emotionally unavailable."  Just like dear ol' Dad.

My husband is in T, and from my reading, has some avoidant personality traits, some NPD.  The exBPD is textbook BPD, I mean disturbingly reflected in the diagnostic criteria.

It is interesting to me that in my emotionally disconnected marriage (we're working on it, and I haven't thrown in the towel!) that it is once again my friends from whom I derive my emotional connection and sense of self-esteem.  How strange that with a whole bevy of really healthy and genuine long-term friendships, I couldn't pick such a healthy partner romantically.

I am my own special head-case, I guess.  I am grateful on a daily basis for my friends.

VanessaG
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 06:33:04 PM »

Excerpt
Givers and Saviors are compliant. They are also afraid of their own success and need to have a failure to solve in order to feel comfortable. They suffer a loss of direction and purpose in life without a care patient to care for (the substitute for the early parent) They have a tendency to feel isolated and a difficulty connecting emotionally with others unless they feel needed. They have a tendency to accept blame for other people's problems, relinquish control by trying to control others and usually suffer mistreatment without complaint, maybe even without awareness that it is happening... .

Damn that hit close to home. It's me in a nutshell  :'(.
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TriedSoHard

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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 08:32:13 PM »

agreed... .

my saviour complex has gotten me into way too many bad situations, the latest being the uBPDexgf... .and yes, she was a taker, for sure... .the more I gave, the more she took... .until I had nothing left to give, then she was gone.

I also notice something about myself... .when judging my choice of partners, or at least interest in potential partners... .I think I figured out why I go for the girls with issues... .I have issues.

I think it comes down to, a girl with issues will understand me because of my issues... .a "normal" girl won't... .therefore, I seek out girls who have problems because I have my own and rather than fix my problems, I avoid the "normal" girls for fear of rejection. Looks like I've got some work to do... .
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kly
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 08:38:29 PM »

Wow, these are some of the most insightful responses I've read in a while.  Or maybe they just speak to me.  Thanks.  I look forward to reading more.
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temp101
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 10:13:54 AM »

I needed to start a new thread, I tried to pack too much into the other one.

I read the new proposed criteria for BPD, and also the thread on what the main characteristics of BPD are, and I wonder if a lot of nons are drawn to BPs because they have similar backgrounds.

It seems to me that a lot of nons are givers and saviors.  While BPs are the other end of the spectrum.

Maybe the question should be.  WHY are some nons the savior types? 

Thoughts?

I didn't realize how similar -- very similar -- my background was to my uBPDh until we had time together (months, years) and slowly discussed our backgrounds. We both had aloof, unavailable fathers. We both had suffocating mothers. (Mine was obsessed with cleanliness, involved the JW cult and emotionally abusive; his was obsessed with cleanilness, neglectful by allowing him to be exposed to sex at a very young age and emotionally abusive by referring to him as a "mistake" etc. Neither had any boundaries.)

We are both Givers and Saviors to each other. We both wanted to help the other -- still do. And we both are very generous and giving. of money, time and self. Our personalities are very similar, almost scarily so at times. It's something people comment on; how well we fit together; how we belong together, etc.

But this relationship is still ultra-difficult, ultra-trying. It's because of the rollercoaster requirement with BPDs.
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goldenblunder
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 10:46:18 AM »

Sign me up for compliant.
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StillChasing
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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2010, 11:03:59 AM »

We hook up with borderlines because it is familiar to what we were used to in childhood, same goes for them.

... .

The really messed up thing is, when the honeymoon phase ended for her, the example of her mother kicked in, and the more I nurtured, the more she tortured... .just like she was used to seeing her mother do during her childhood.

Was I necessarily attracted to her because she was able to fill my childhood roleplaying? Perhaps. But, regardless of why I was attracted to her, the familiarness of the situation allowed me to stay in this relationship and not question it, because this was crap I was used to seeing, so why should I think it wasn't "normal?"

If I hadn't read Mobocracy's response, I'd probably indepdently write it word for word.  Yeah, each time the honeymoon phase ended, the nicer I was, the more I'd be treated like hit_.  And I kept thinking, "She'd treat me better if I deserved to be treated better.  I just have to make myself into a better person."  Foolish thinking, but definitely something that stems from my FOO. 

I wasn't attracted to her because I thought I could replay bad family dynamics with her.  I was attracted to her because she's insanely beautiful and obviously thought that I was a catch myself.  Everything was great when she was telling me she loved me.  But once I told her I loved her?  Well, that was a mistake.
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ron7127
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2010, 11:48:11 AM »

Our backgrounds were dissimilar, although I grew up in a home with an abusive, alcoholic dad.

My XNPDW, came from a home where her mom and dad never showed affection for each other (neither did mine). Her mom, however is probably BPD. She gives massive silent treatments and is very harsh.

In struggling with the omni-present question many of us face :was it me with the BPD?, I had a really hard time with the isue of my childhood. I was sexually abused as a kid by an older boy. My dad was alcoholic and it caused me to struggle with anxiety as a kid and into adulthood. It affected my self confidence and self esteem.

So, I thought, after reading much of this stuff, I came from a perfect breeding ground for BPD.

I kept asking my therapist if I had it, in light of my background. He would tell me, no, I had a big issue with lack of feeling entitled to much of anything.

I have found, particularly in looking at stuf on children of alcoholics, that, as another poster points out, folks seem to go a number of ways after being abused as kids.

For some, they repeat what was modeled.

Others do a 180 and never drink or abuse.

Others try to fly under the radar , as they fear abuse. They avoid conflict and appease.

It is a very difficult thing to figure out and it is very hard to do self assessment.

I think I understand what it was that led me into relationships with two serial cheating women who I believe are disordered. Despite being reasonably good looking, having done well in school and my profession and excelling at athletics, I really never got over the messages I heard from my dad. I felt that I was lucky to have found my wives and that I deserved no better than the abuse they were dishing out.

I had never seen normal in my folk's relationships and did not realize how abusive my wives were for a long time. I tried to suck it up, do better, earn more, do the childcare, keep them happy.

But, they were bottomless pits and were never satisfied. So, just as i did with my dad, I kept trying harder and harder.

It never worked. I was told in many ways how deficient I was and how every single problem was my fault.

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