Painted white but insanity remains

[Depression = 72% of members]

Saw exBPDgf yesterday. She had to take her car to my mechanic for a follow-up check. So we met at my house. While I was in my room putting on a shirt, she decided to do some exploring and read a small greeting card on my mantle that one of my female friends had gotten me. Of course she started drilling me about it and I just blew it off. After all, there's also a card from her on the same mantle.

So we leave, take the car, go out to lunch, she's affectionate as she's been lately, even when she was scolding me about the note from church Sunday. So nice lunch, and then went and walked around a nearby park while waiting for her car to be done. She said that she didn't want to go all the way back to my place to change for school so she'd probably change at the mechanic's. No problem there.

But when we picked up the car she said she had a few minutes and she'd go change at my house, meaning in front of me. I've got no problem with that either.     So we get there and she says her stomach is bothering her and she needs to use my restroom. (the guest bath has a leaky toilet so the water's turned off)  She said she was going to light a candle in there for obvious reasons and asked where the lighter was. I told her it was on the armoir just inside my bedroom door. Instead of grabbing that one, she went to get the one on the little junk tray on my dresser, where she found a small broche (pin) that someone had left behind. Immediatly she started asking questions... ."Who wears granny pins?", etc. Again I shut her down.

I told her a couple of weeks ago straight out that I was dating and that there are those that I date that I also sleep with. So in to the bathroom she goes, for quite a while. When she comes out I could see the split on her face as she starts lecturing me about condom use, asking who made my bed and other blah, blah, blah. Of course now she's changing at school. LOL. Like I care. I just said have a good class and started walking her to her car when her boss called. So back in the house I went. Then the doorbell rings and a little more of the same. She gave me a slight hug, unlike the full contact squeezes earlier and on her way she went.

Soon I got texts saying how nice it was to see me and that she looked forward to seeing me in church Sunday. Then one that said she left candles on in the bathroom. So I go in to blow them out and the weirdness goes up by a factor of 10. On my wash basin is this strip of sort of half cloth, half paper that women use, and it's covered with wiped off make-up. It was laid out perfectly in the center front of the sink. Next to that was a couple of bobby pins. My thought was that she had left that stuff for other women to find. I just chuckled and clipped the pins to the cloth and put it in my 'souvenir' drawer.

A bit later it hit me... .She doesn't wear that much make-up or pins in her hair. The fact is, while she was on the toilet, the crazy hit_ went through my damn trash can! She left an "I gotcha!" message, even though I freely admitted I'm dating. And of course remember she lives with the scumbag she left me for. And for added effect, I later saw that she'd strategically placed an empty tampon wrapper (hers) on the top of the trash.

You know, I think it'd be almost scary if it wasn't so entertaining. Then after a few texts later on, she calls me at 10:40 (a bit past my bed time) and talks for 20 minutes like nothing. Gee, you don't think she was verifying that I was alone, do you? 

[Beast98]

Saw exBPDgf yesterday. She had to take her car to my mechanic for a follow-up check. So we met at my house. While I was in my room putting on a shirt, she decided to do some exploring and read a small greeting card on my mantle that one of my female friends had gotten me. Of course she started drilling me about it and I just blew it off. After all, there's also a card from her on the same mantle.

So we leave, take the car, go out to lunch, she's affectionate as she's been lately, even when she was scolding me about the note from church Sunday. So nice lunch, and then went and walked around a nearby park while waiting for her car to be done. She said that she didn't want to go all the way back to my place to change for school so she'd probably change at the mechanic's. No problem there.

But when we picked up the car she said she had a few minutes and she'd go change at my house, meaning in front of me. I've got no problem with that either.     So we get there and she says her stomach is bothering her and she needs to use my restroom. (the guest bath has a leaky toilet so the water's turned off)  She said she was going to light a candle in there for obvious reasons and asked where the lighter was. I told her it was on the armoir just inside my bedroom door. Instead of grabbing that one, she went to get the one on the little junk tray on my dresser, where she found a small broche (pin) that someone had left behind. Immediatly she started asking questions... ."Who wears granny pins?", etc. Again I shut her down.

I told her a couple of weeks ago straight out that I was dating and that there are those that I date that I also sleep with. So in to the bathroom she goes, for quite a while. When she comes out I could see the split on her face as she starts lecturing me about condom use, asking who made my bed and other blah, blah, blah. Of course now she's changing at school. LOL. Like I care. I just said have a good class and started walking her to her car when her boss called. So back in the house I went. Then the doorbell rings and a little more of the same. She gave me a slight hug, unlike the full contact squeezes earlier and on her way she went.

Soon I got texts saying how nice it was to see me and that she looked forward to seeing me in church Sunday. Then one that said she left candles on in the bathroom. So I go in to blow them out and the weirdness goes up by a factor of 10. On my wash basin is this strip of sort of half cloth, half paper that women use, and it's covered with wiped off make-up. It was laid out perfectly in the center front of the sink. Next to that was a couple of bobby pins. My thought was that she had left that stuff for other women to find. I just chuckled and clipped the pins to the cloth and put it in my 'souvenir' drawer.

A bit later it hit me... .She doesn't wear that much make-up or pins in her hair. The fact is, while she was on the toilet, the crazy hit_ went through my damn trash can! She left an "I gotcha!" message, even though I freely admitted I'm dating. And of course remember she lives with the scumbag she left me for. And for added effect, I later saw that she'd strategically placed an empty tampon wrapper (hers) on the top of the trash.

You know, I think it'd be almost scary if it wasn't so entertaining. Then after a few texts later on, she calls me at 10:40 (a bit past my bed time) and talks for 20 minutes like nothing. Gee, you don't think she was verifying that I was alone, do you? 

[turtlesoup]

I suppose if you're no longer in love with your BPD and you don't fear violence and you are 100% sure you wont get suckered in then many of things are amusing, she would leave knickers at my house, things around is places she knows I'd only go if she were there etc.

I dont want you (as in a full on rel.) but I dont want anyone else to have u either. Its just how it goes with pwBPD i think, even if they left you they still think they got some kind of right over you.

[rosebud]

A bit later it hit me... .She doesn't wear that much make-up or pins in her hair. The fact is, while she was on the toilet, the crazy hit_ went through my damn trash can! She left an "I gotcha!" message, even though I freely admitted I'm dating. And of course remember she lives with the scumbag she left me for. And for added effect, I later saw that she'd strategically placed an empty tampon wrapper (hers) on the top of the trash.

You know, I think it'd be almost scary if it wasn't so entertaining. Then after a few texts later on, she calls me at 10:40 (a bit past my bed time) and talks for 20 minutes like nothing. Gee, you don't think she was verifying that I was alone, do you? 

Oh for the love of... .   ;p    actually, yes, that is funny in a really ridiculous kind of way!

[rosebud]

I suppose if you're no longer in love with your BPD and you don't fear violence and you are 100% sure you wont get suckered in then many of things are amusing, she would leave knickers at my house, things around is places she knows I'd only go if she were there etc.

I dont want you (as in a full on rel.) but I dont want anyone else to have u either. Its just how it goes with pwBPD i think, even if they left you they still think they got some kind of right over you.

Ick!  That's true with BPD's.  Be careful.

[ron7127]

RUN.

[goldenblunder]

The last time my wife was over, she oddly left an item of clothing on the towel rack in the bathroom.  It was a sparkly women's skirt type thing.  Something flashy.

I didn't really think anything of it until now.  When she left it there, I called her and told her that she had forgotten it.  She just said that she had changed her mind and decided not to wear it.  Well this makes no sense because she wasn't dressing up for anything at that time.  It wasn't like she was getting ready for a party and decided to wear jeans instead of that skirt.  She had just dug it out of her closet and hung it on the towel rack.  To leave her mark, I guess.

[DAS]

I told her a couple of weeks ago straight out that I was dating and that there are those that I date that I also sleep with.

I wish I could date and some of those I dated would also sleep with me... .<sigh>

But I think that I am never going to hear from my ex again so this likely wouldn't be an issue... .

[SheWasAFriendOfMine]

Hoho Turtle,

No wonder mine has gone all bonkers as I've refused to reveal my new address.  I guess she won't be leaving any "marks" at mine as she will not be finding out where I live unless she forks out for a darn good Detective.

Saw her today, and she tried her best to ignore me.  To a stranger, I'd look like a nasty piece of work, if only they knew what a lying, abusive emotional vampire she was... .

[Beast98]

I suppose if you're no longer in love with your BPD and you don't fear violence and you are 100% sure you wont get suckered in then many of things are amusing, she would leave knickers at my house, things around is places she knows I'd only go if she were there etc.

I dont want you (as in a full on rel.) but I dont want anyone else to have u either. Its just how it goes with pwBPD i think, even if they left you they still think they got some kind of right over you.

TS, that hits the nail right on the head. "I don't want you, in fact I want someone else, but I sure don't want anyone else to have you". It's really twisted logic. Another thread talked about them hiding things better. She's doing that (i.e. nearly 7 weeks painted white) but she's very easy to read. And when she left she was really upset, but strugging to play it off. She just doesn't see how irrational her thought patterns are. 

And as a side note. I AM still in love with her, admittedly. BUT (and my T applauds this) I've learned to take what she has to give that's positive and ___can the rest. I'll never be in a relationship with her again. I know very well that she has zero capacity for loyalty. That will never be acceptable to me, regardless of my feelings.

I told her a couple of weeks ago straight out that I was dating and that there are those that I date that I also sleep with.

I wish I could date and some of those I dated would also sleep with me... .<sigh>

But I think that I am never going to hear from my ex again so this likely wouldn't be an issue... .

DAS, you seem like a good dude. I've read much of what you write and I believe that you need to continue to try to grasp why women reject you. Now I'm no psych so this may be ridiculous, but have you ever thought of asking women from your past straight out why they aren't interested? You may get some honest answers to help with your personal inventory. Never know!

[KMTTP]

And why are you on the 'leaving board' if you are still with her?  confuzzled 

[Beast98]

I don't for a moment consider myself 'with' her. Nor am I trying to get her back, or even undecided. I realize there is the school of thought that says go NC or get off our board. Sorry, tried it. It doesn't work for me. If I'm a bad example, then that's what I am but I still have as much a right to post here as part of my therapy/healing as anyone else.

[KMTTP]

Funny... .did not even mention NC... .I

t just appears to me from your post that you are 'hanging' out with her... .fully engaged.  Doesn't sound like you are leaving at all... .just dating her.  IMO. 

[KMTTP]

LOL... .and no you are not a 'bad example'... .I could care less.  I do my own thing regardless of what people do on here.  I was just wondering why you would seek advice on this board... .no worries. 

[Beast98]

LOL. The answer is simple. I don't want a relationship with her. Period. But correct, I like 'hanging out' with her. I've gone back and forth a few times between boards based on where my mind was at. The fact that I'm able to enjoy what's enjoyable about her without all the rest shows how really disengaged I am. I LOVE the fact that she's surely making fugly miserable. She's certainly not doing it to me. Between Nov and Feb I didn't speak to her... .That was 3 months. And I'll do it again if she doesn't behave. But as long as she does, I get some quality time with someone I genuinely enjoy and care about.

Does that make any sense at all? If not, read some of my posts from a year ago. I was very close to having myself committed. I'm never going back there. 

[PotentiallyKevin]

Just be careful... .You are playing with fire... .

[Beast98]

Thanks Moby... .I know. But what once hurt me now ammuses me. I don't know but when she reengaged with me in February, a different beast showed up. The 10 weeks she stayed in my house and the 3 months after that brought me out of the fog. I learned from the borderline. The game... .THIS version of the game is governed by MY rules. And if I don't like something, I take my ball and go home. I clearly spot the manipulation, WHILE it's happening. So it doesn't work.

I guess it's come down to the point where she wants me in her life more than I want her in mine. She has to earn the privilage of being there... .Every day. Because this is a zero tolerance situation, that I'm actually enjoying. But at the same time, she no longer has anything I need. There is where my power lies. 

[KateCat]

I always enjoy your posts, wherever I might find them! I think you have made progress, and I think you are being as honest with yourself as you are able at this stage.

Here's the part that I don't find so persuasive:

I guess it's come down to the point where she wants me in her life more than I want her in mine. She has to earn the privilage of being there

I think I'll be more inclined to believe that the next time I hear that she provided transportation for you to get your car fixed, and then she cooked dinner for you at her house, and then she took you on a weekend vacation with your kids and bought school clothes for them because their mother didn't buy them any, and then she gave you some flowers for your room and the two of you discussed your plans for continuing education and how to fund it, and then she gave you that diamond necklace that she had been saving for just the right moment.

I do believe there's been some type of shift in your thinking. You are accepting much less abuse and exploitation. But do you see the two of you having this same relationship in five years' time? Where do you want to go from here?

[KMTTP]

I get it now... .thanks for the clarification.

[Beast98]

Kate, I don't think 5 minutes in advance, let alone 5 years. I'm taking the cool stuff as it comes. I have boundaries that never existed before... .I no longer foot the bill for anything of hers. And we alternate as to who pays for our lunches, dinners, drinks, etc.

I don't call her, ever. But lately she calls every day, generally more than once. It's just kind of cool. I know very well that it won't last. She's a psycho borderline after all. But again, I enjoy her company. I always have. Let fugly have the relationship BS. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. 

[OriginalofSpecies]

Sounds like we all dated the same girl, Is it a cool thing to hang out with them and not fall for the BS they pulled on us throught the entire relationship ? Told BPDexgf (share a 14 month old daughter) I moved forward. understood she is incapable of a relationship, cool, now I have the ability to move on and take a new chick to the Yankees home opener (I would never tell her about this, don't need her nosing thru my place time and time again, but suggested last week taking baby to the park (shes a hermit, I'm not) I take my daughter to the park, or to feed the ducks, she loves it, but never wants to go home to mommy (no Sesame Street, not much out, boring crap I put up with as her BF) She told me that she didn't want to go to the park, I said, ok, I'll take the baby for an hour then, he put phone on speaker, said you want to go with dada to park, baby got excited, phone hangs up. call back, no answer... Text her i'll be there in an hour to get baby, no response, go by her house, her bro tells me he just got home, but she must have left in a hurry because all the lights are on. Ask her next day what the story was, no answer... Tell her, listen, if you have a problem being around me, I understand, that's cool, just trying to do something nice with the baby... She said, no, I don't not want to be around you, I will when I want to, and right now I don't... .No biggie, calls me this morning, tels me baby is sickand shes taking off work, she shopping earlier in the week and was going to call me, but missed her exit and it set her off, so she didn't call... Said she's been on Effexor for a month... Just don't get what the "when I'm ready" thing means... .Your girl sounds real similiar, minus the kid... the going thru the house hit_, in my closet, garbage, who's are these (my socks)... When I'm ready... .WTH, got an opinion ? Hypothesis, should I tell her to ef off if she calls to do something or could she make me suffer ramifications in seeing my daughter

[Beast98]

Well the daughter card is dicey. Sounds to me like she's using her to ABuse you. It's unlikely that it will change anytime soon. Your ex sounds like a real piece of work. Have you looked into getting scheduled visitations through the courts? That may be your only recourse at this point.

I'm actually having fun with mine right now and leaving the abuse for my replacement. It appears that you're a long way from that.

Good luck and hang in there bro... .     

[OriginalofSpecies]

Thanks, fortunatley my schedule allows me to be off the 3 days she works, so I see my kid often... Just trying to be friendly to BPDex, too many stigmas with her, one of which, a bullet I truly dodged (thank you god) Genital Herpes, guess from where... Sleeping with a married guy at work... I feel bad for her, I know she does it to herself, and it's everyone elses fault... I'm just trying to be a friend, get her out, show mom and dad don't dislike one another, but daddy is not going back to mommy because daddy needs to remain stable and doesn't want to chance having to tell every women for the rest of my life that I have herps... .btw, married guy, of course abused her

[turtlesoup]

Thanks, fortunatley my schedule allows me to be off the 3 days she works, so I see my kid often... Just trying to be friendly to BPDex, too many stigmas with her, one of which, a bullet I truly dodged (thank you god) Genital Herpes, guess from where... Sleeping with a married guy at work... I feel bad for her, I know she does it to herself, and it's everyone elses fault... I'm just trying to be a friend, get her out, show mom and dad don't dislike one another, but daddy is not going back to mommy because daddy needs to remain stable and doesn't want to chance having to tell every women for the rest of my life that I have herps... .btw, married guy, of course abused her

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Initially reading the same scenarios I'd been in made me think "look, this happened to me yay" but now, it's pissing me off! Get some originality BPDers, my BPDex thought she was soo different, special and unique must have thought she'd come up with a real trump card wiping out her infidelities by blaming abusing others! Man Im so stupid.

You know what, I knew it, I knew she was hiding behind lies but she just spoke so much and made so many more problems it was just impossible to get my racket out of its cover in order to start hitting some balls across the court, i couldn't get answers because I didn't have time even to say the questions.

COULD NOT BE HAPPIER TO BE AWAY FROM HER. Night all! x

[KateCat]

Beast,

I'm worried that you don't have plans for your future, because I'm pretty sure your "ex" has plans for your future.

[letitgo]

Knowing what I know now about my exBPD/NPD, I would be afraid to be around her observing these crazy behaviours... .It would be like a psycho-thriller movie which freaks me out. 

I know what you mean about hangin out with her being fun, BUT, it will go back to crazy.  At least that's what they say on here.

Be careful

[2010]

I told her a couple of weeks ago straight out that I was dating and that there are those that I date that I also sleep with.

So, *why* are you doing favors for an ex girlfriend who doesn't think she's an ex? Why not give her the mechanic's phone number? Why go through this entire set-up and then blame her for her questions of your relationship status? You seem to be doing the things that a boyfriend would do. I dont get it. What is your relaionship to this woman? Certainly it's not an innocent bystander. What do you get out of this?

And as a side note. I AM still in love with her, admittedly. BUT (and my T applauds this) I've learned to take what she has to give that's positive and ___can the rest. I'll never be in a relationship with her again. I know very well that she has zero capacity for loyalty. That will never be acceptable to me, regardless of my feelings.

You still ARE in a relationship with her. You are helping her, doing things for her by setting up an appointment with her for "YOUR" mechanic, (believe me there are hundreds of other mechanics she could go to) YOU are still in love with her... .playing a game and blaming her for the dysfunction. When are you going to quit and take responsibility for your own actions?  ? This therapist of yours needs to re-examine the need for this - or every new relationship you begin will suffer through the interlapping of the previous one. Let her go.

[Beast98]

These reactions are expected and understood. I'd love to hate her. And I'm sure it doesn't matter that the mechanic has worked on her car since she got it, sans the 'dark time', where she got ripped off.

It may interest you to know that I still help out exw, 5 years after she left. The consumate caretaker. But what the hell? I've loved 4 women in my life and never stopped loving any of them, just decided I could no longer be in a relationship with them.

And of course, I feel like every moment I'm with her, I'm exacting revenge on fugly, wrong as that may be. I don't presume to feign rightiousness. There's a lot of that here. That's for victims. Non's are capable of some sin from time to time too. Screw it. It's fun for the time being and in the meantime, I'll keep searching for the one that will make me not want to be around her any more. She's out there somewhere.

[Interestedparty]

Kate, I don't think 5 minutes in advance, let alone 5 years. I'm taking the cool stuff as it comes. I have boundaries that never existed before... .I no longer foot the bill for anything of hers. And we alternate as to who pays for our lunches, dinners, drinks, etc.

I don't call her, ever. But lately she calls every day, generally more than once. It's just kind of cool. I know very well that it won't last. She's a psycho borderline after all. But again, I enjoy her company. I always have. Let fugly have the relationship BS. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. 

Beast98, why do you get so much pleasure from insulting your ex's new partner by insisting on calling him Fugly (isn't that a bit infantile?) but embracing, continuing to engage with and being grateful to engage with the one that actually caused MOST of the damage and hurt by playing you BOTH? That is madness!

If you have made the decision to still have her in your life then you should have the respect for her to not insult her partner. She made the choice to pick him. He is no worse than you. In fact, you two have very much in common... .Your ex! And how you both interact with her.

And of course, I feel like every moment I'm with her, I'm exacting revenge on fugly, wrong as that may be.

Your FOCUS and anger are misdirected. Her new guy was just a pawn in the game, like you.

If you were going to 'exact revenge' why isn't it directed at your ex?

[Interestedparty]

I realize there is the school of thought that says go NC or get off our board. Sorry, tried it. It doesn't work for me. If I'm a bad example, then that's what I am but I still have as much a right to post here as part of my therapy/healing as anyone else.

You know something Beast98, maybe you have forgotten, in your quest to stay engaged at some level with you ex-BPD... .but each board has a particular 'purpose' and even more important 'a particular dynamic' to help support people that are in a particular place and at a certainl level with their BPD.

For example, I cannot relate one iota to the people on the staying board because I have a different mindset and therefore the dynamics of that board and what is being posted 'grate' on me beyond belief. Also, if I posted there I would be posting from a 'LEAVE, RUN, NO CONTACT, WHY WASTE YOUR TIME BEING A CARER? BEING USED? BEING ABUSED? ETC.' mindset. This would grate the people on the staying board and I'm sure wouldn't be appreciated there and quite rightly so. Having said that, I totally respect their right to make the decision to stay with their BPD if that is where they feel need to be.

You see, the boards are NOT just about us as individuals and what we can get out of it. It is also about others as well and what we can give to them to aid and support their healing. That 'mindful' give and take is what makes the boards achieve their aim to the maximum.

People on the staying board have 'a right to heal' like anyone else. However, the leaving/disengaging board is not the best place for their 'right to heal' to be exerted. Hence, the reason why they have a separate board. If they posted on our board, their mindset and their current situation would be reflected in what they wrote and that would be 'in direct conflict' with what we, who want to disengage totally, leave our xBPD, to start 'afresh', would want to hear or represent the place in which we want to be and therefore it would not be supporting us.

I personally, do not find it inspirational or helpful to my healing to hear of someone actively 'embracing engaging' (as opposed to fighting against engaging and even failing  :'( which we have all done) with their BPD and then bringing the 'predictable' negative results of that engagement to tell me. I already know! It is the precise reason why I chose to disengage and why I am on this specific board because I want to be with like-minded people.

Nor is it about actively 'hating' our xBPD or trying to get others to hate their xBPD either. The severe pain we encountered was in part due to the deep feelings we felt we had for our xBPD.

The heart of this particular board, is constantly stating, 'despite all that I feel, I have to disengage completely because it is not at all healthy for me to do otherwise'... .

If the dynamics of your of 'disengagement' has brought out a reaction on this board then maybe that is a 'caring and supportive' red flag   for you to go away, put aside the 'denial' and continue doing some more internal work on yourself to move you forward from where you are.

You know, I think it'd be almost scary if it wasn't so entertaining. Then after a few texts later on, she calls me at 10:40 (a bit past my bed time) and talks for 20 minutes like nothing. Gee, you don't think she was verifying that I was alone, do you?  rolleyes

Beast98, it sounds like you get a lot of your validation from having her in your life. Are you sure there are not co-dependency issues lurking, still needing to be dealt with?

[SoMuchPain]

I realize there is the school of thought that says go NC or get off our board. Sorry, tried it. It doesn't work for me. If I'm a bad example, then that's what I am but I still have as much a right to post here as part of my therapy/healing as anyone else.

You know something Beast98, maybe you have forgotten, in your quest to stay engaged at some level with you ex-BPD... .but each board has a particular 'purpose' and even more important 'a particular dynamic' to help support people that are in a particular place and at a certainl level with their BPD.

For example, I cannot relate one iota to the people on the staying board because I have a different mindset and therefore the dynamics of that board and what is being posted 'grate' on me beyond belief. Also, if I posted there I would be posting from a 'LEAVE, RUN, NO CONTACT, WHY WASTE YOUR TIME BEING A CARER? BEING USED? BEING ABUSED? ETC.' mindset. This would grate the people on the staying board and I'm sure wouldn't be appreciated there and quite rightly so. Having said that, I totally respect their right to make the decision to stay with their BPD if that is where they feel need to be.

You see, the boards are NOT just about us as individuals and what we can get out of it. It is also about others as well and what we can give to them to aid and support their healing. That 'mindful' give and take is what makes the boards achieve their aim to the maximum.

People on the staying board have 'a right to heal' like anyone else. However, the leaving/disengaging board is not the best place for their 'right to heal' to be exerted. Hence, the reason why they have a separate board. If they posted on our board, their mindset and their current situation would be reflected in what they wrote and that would be 'in direct conflict' with what we, who want to disengage totally, leave our xBPD, to start 'afresh', would want to hear or represent the place in which we want to be and therefore it would not be supporting us.

I personally, do not find it inspirational or helpful to my healing to hear of someone actively 'embracing engaging' (as opposed to fighting against engaging and even failing  :'( which we have all done) with their BPD and then bringing the 'predictable' negative results of that engagement to tell me. I already know! It is the precise reason why I chose to disengage and why I am on this specific board because I want to be with like-minded people.

Nor is it about actively 'hating' our xBPD or trying to get others to hate their xBPD either. The severe pain we encountered was in part due to the deep feelings we felt we had for our xBPD.

The heart of this particular board, is constantly stating, 'despite all that I feel, I have to disengage completely because it is not at all healthy for me to do otherwise'... .

If the dynamics of your of 'disengagement' has brought out a reaction on this board then maybe that is a 'caring and supportive' red flag   for you to go away, put aside the 'denial' and continue doing some more internal work on yourself to move you forward from where you are.

You know, I think it'd be almost scary if it wasn't so entertaining. Then after a few texts later on, she calls me at 10:40 (a bit past my bed time) and talks for 20 minutes like nothing. Gee, you don't think she was verifying that I was alone, do you?  rolleyes

Beast98, it sounds like you get a lot of your validation from having her in your life. Are you sure there are not co-dependency issues lurking, still needing to be dealt with?

i agree a lot with this entire post.  partly because i see a lot of myself in beast ... .i know if my ex was trying to engage me, i would go along, because i actually get a kick out of having her in my life ... .a sick, twisted kick, but a kick nonetheless.  anytime im on the leaving board, it's mainly because SHE has gone NC on ME, and i really have no choice but to deal with it.  anytime she re-engages, i do go back to the staying board.  i think i am now at a point where i think she is fully done messing with me, and i am fully done expecting anything good from her anyway. 

but yeah beast, regardless of if you are actually in a "relationship" with her, it still is a relationship ... .a friendship.  i dunno.  when i was doing this, i found the staying board to be more helpful and receptive.  the staying board is actually a pretty pessimistic, downer board too.  (go figure). 

[Interestedparty]

... .the staying board is actually a pretty pessimistic, downer board too.  (go figure). 

SMP, you made me  when you wrote this. Don't want to offend anyone but I so agree with you! Like you said... .go figure!

[KateCat]

Beast,

I hope one day you will come closer to seeing that your "ex" was, is, and will continue to be the winner in the contest between the two of you. No one knows better than she does that you are in love with her. I think you are her retirement plan. You know, for that day about five years from now when she grabs her boss's crotch and he looks back at her and sees . . . a woman his mother's age. (Her 50th birthday isn't all that far away, is it?)

Look for her to ridicule any woman who gets close to you. She's not going to let you go easily. What she needs from you is your desire.

Maybe you will progress further in your thinking in the coming years. I still think that what you need most at the moment is a set of written boundaries for yourself. "I will buy her lunch." "I won't work on her immigration matters." "I will oversee her auto repairs." "I won't support her children."

[Beast98]

Hi Kate. A lot of what you're saying I've already done. I don't mind giving her a little help and guidance, but I've stopped giving her money completely.

IP,

I'm sorry that my posts of course aren't providing you the healing help you seek. But frankly, you're not my responsibility. I'm here working on me. I've tried many different things and most have failed. I have a shrink and a T and both agree that I'm doing quite well. The bottom line is that I'm on this board to get the constant reminder of the evil that lurks within, as her actions hide that more and more. Sometimes NC is in my best interests, sometime it's not. That's my choice for my life.

As for fugly, yes, I'm sure much of my approach is juvenile. So what? I'm a human male caveman. When I look at the two of them as a couple, I hate them equally. When she's hanging out with me and behaving, I see her differently. I never see him differently. If you'd read some of the e-mails that smug SOB has written me you'd understand my distain towards him. F him and the zebra painted Tijuana donkey he rode in on.

So here I am, here I'm staying and everyone has the right to pass my posts by if they don't fall into your prescribed 'leaving board' criteria.  

[Beast98]

Oh, and Kate... .She'll be 43 in 2 weeks, and the 'game' as I see it in its current state doesn't have a winner or loser. There's nothing more I want that I'm not getting.

[KateCat]

There's nothing more I want that I'm not getting.

You could have fooled me.  

[Colombian Chick]

As for fugly, yes, I'm sure much of my approach is juvenile. So what? I'm a human male caveman. When I look at the two of them as a couple, I hate them equally. When she's hanging out with me and behaving, I see her differently. I never see him differently. If you'd read some of the e-mails that smug SOB has written me you'd understand my distain towards him. F him and the zebra painted Tijuana donkey he rode in on.

Her current boyfriend has every right to feel offended by you, since you still cling on to his girlfriend for emotional comfort because you can't get it from yourself. It is not his fault you can't move on.

YOU have some major issues and you are probably not being completely truthful about yourself to the therapist. You expressed yourself here full of anger, recentment, frustration, denial, a need for control, and jealousy. If you have opened up to your therapist the way you have opened up in this board, I doubt they would have failed to address these issues. I highly recommend you get a complete spychological evaluation by a Licensed Spychologist, so that he/she can address your deep rooted issues. Your ex has issues, but you have some major once of your own.

So here I am, here I'm staying and everyone has the right to pass my posts by if they don't fall into your prescribed 'leaving board' criteria.  

You have some major issues that only a licensed professinal can address. By what you wrote, this is definately not the place for you.

By the way 2010  

[Interestedparty]

CC

It is always really great to see posts from you    Hope your personal inventory went well. Whatever, the case like I said missed you and glad you popped in. You always make a positive impact!

I'm sorry that my posts of course aren't providing you the healing help you seek. But frankly, you're not my responsibility.

But you are here making others, including me, 'responsible' for your healing, right?

I'm here working on me.

Really.

I have a shrink and a T and both agree that I'm doing quite well.

Ok.

When I look at the two of them as a couple, I hate them equally. When she's hanging out with me and behaving, I see her differently. I never see him differently. If you'd read some of the e-mails that smug SOB has written me you'd understand my distain towards him. F him and the zebra painted Tijuana donkey he rode in on.

Yeah, I can see you are doing really well... .Fantastic! Yeah. It shows... .

So here I am, here I'm staying and everyone has the right to pass my posts by if they don't fall into your prescribed 'leaving board' criteria.  

Pass... .

[Beast98]

Wow, now everyone is a psychiatrist. 

Those of you who think you are the gatekeepers of this board... .Sorry, you're not. I have broken free of the hook of my exBPDgf. I like seeing her from time to time, and if she's nice to me, then I have no problem with it. I'm in control of everything I do. She asks if I can see her. Sometimes I say yes, sometimes I say no.

It amazes me how much people here think they know about my life and situation based on the scant little I choose to write. But at the same time, you have the right to your opinions, which I respect whether I agree or not. What I'm doing here is working for me! Got that? ME! Isn't that what this is all about? I've made it clear to ex that she cannot move back in to my house and that there will never again be a romantic relationship between us. That's it. Sure, I'll see you if you'd like, but I'm spending no money and you'd better behave yourself.

I'm not going to apologize for not being miserable anymore. I'm not. Those who have diagnosed my issues, well, knock yourselves out. I don't see a sign on the entrance that says 'Miserable, loathing people only can post here'. Or did i miss something?  ?

[Beast98]

CC

It is always really great to see posts from you    Hope your personal inventory went well. Whatever, the case like I said missed you and glad you popped in. You always make a positive impact!

I'm sorry that my posts of course aren't providing you the healing help you seek. But frankly, you're not my responsibility.

But you are here making others, including me, 'responsible' for your healing, right? Wrong. Sometimes I vent and sometimes i look for feedback. I am my own responsibility.  

I'm here working on me.

Really. Yes really.

I have a shrink and a T and both agree that I'm doing quite well.

Ok. I'd say it's a relative thing, but if you don't think so, I'll fire them both.

When I look at the two of them as a couple, I hate them equally. When she's hanging out with me and behaving, I see her differently. I never see him differently. If you'd read some of the e-mails that smug SOB has written me you'd understand my distain towards him. F him and the zebra painted Tijuana donkey he rode in on.

Yeah, I can see you are doing really well... .Fantastic! Yeah. It shows... .What, I'm not allowed a little bitterness toward those that wrecked a dream that was very important to me? Ok, let me medicate myself into an unfeeling Zombie.

So here I am, here I'm staying and everyone has the right to pass my posts by if they don't fall into your prescribed 'leaving board' criteria. 

Pass... .Bye Bye!

[Interestedparty]

  ... .

[Beast98]

That's more like it. 

[KateCat]

I do think you've made progress from the shattered position you were in a year-and-a-half ago. You have made and are apparently successfully enforcing boundaries.  Let me ask you a little bit more about the following, though:

I'm in control of everything I do.

Not long ago you were drinking pretty heavily. Has this changed?

(And, dang, Beast, you are far too quotable for your own good! Don't make me bring up some of your really juicy posts from the past  ;p .)

[Beast98]

Hell Kate, I read some of that old stuff just for entertainment value.

To answer, I've substantially cut down on drinking. Now it's when I'm having a good time with others, not drowning my sorrows alone.   

[goldenblunder]

I LOVE the fact that she's surely making fugly miserable.

I can relate with this.

What, I'm not allowed a little bitterness toward those that wrecked a dream that was very important to me?

Yes, you are.  And so am I.  :)irtbags like your fugly and my wife's jackass are scum.  I was good to jackass, and he stole my wife.  Nevermind it was probably for the best.  He still is a coward and showed open disrespect for me.

And of course, I feel like every moment I'm with her, I'm exacting revenge on fugly.

Yep.  I do need a more creative name for the guy, though.  Usually I just call him jackass.

[Manon46]

Beast, i can imagine that you still like and love the company from your ex g/f and that you are having huge feelings of revenge at fugly?

And also to jackass... .

But they didn't steel your wife, she made the choise to leave you for another person.

Beast as i am reading your posts it seems to me that you are using her for your own good...

That is not respectfull to any kind of human being... .using other people for your own benefit is the same what they are doing... .and what you have paid for...

I am sure that you can do better than that... .bitterness only leaves you bitter,angry,resentfull,and hurt you even more in the long run... .

What comes around goes around... .karmic law... x

[goldenblunder]

But they didn't steel your wife, she made the choise to leave you for another person.

Well, it's both really.  I mean with mine, she chose to go, sure.  But jackass's actions and intentions were not honorable.  Hell, he probably did me a big favor without knowing it.  But that doesn't change the fact that his actions were contemptible.

[Manon46]

But they didn't steel your wife, she made the choise to leave you for another person.

Well, it's both really.  I mean with mine, she chose to go, sure.  But jackass's actions and intentions were not honorable.  Hell, he probably did me a big favor without knowing it.  But that doesn't change the fact that his actions were contemptible.

Absolutely... .now he has to pay for that... doesn't he ?

[turtlesoup]

I do find it interesting the way the guys are blaming the guys and I also think this is kinda out issue at times too, seeing these women as what "helpless", like the guy should have some responsibility here. The only one who is responsible when a wife or gf cheats with another bloke is the wife or gf, I have no trouble in making that distinction and just feel plain sorry for anyone involved with her over a longer time frame.

You guys know just how seductive (if she was like mine) these women are, they belittle or ignore totally the role of the current partner, to think that smokey or fugly or jackass are really worthy of hate here... .i don't agree. I can see why, I sympathise, you reckon you are a stand up guy and wouldn't get involved with a woman with a bf or husband?

Mine would spin the hugest lies and stories, that the ex's were abusive, rapists, you name it, maybe these guys did but up some kind of a fight, maybe they never knew, the only point is anger at them is misdirected anger, these women are manipulative (oh no no its BPD) and deliberately playing people off against one another. Don't hate the guys man, you dont know what she has been saying to them.

[Beast98]

But they didn't steel your wife, she made the choise to leave you for another person.

He was the enabler, pursuing another man's woman for a year and a half (I've read his old e-mails to her) and letting her know that his home is open to her any time. When I left town for my daughter's surgery and ex was wallowing in abandonment issues, he was an easy choice. Had he not been in the picture, she would probably have been there when I returned. And to have come back to me after packing and leaving would have made what she did wrong, which cant happen.

Am I using her? I'm not sure. Am I using other women I date that I'm fairly certain there's not a long term future with? When she and I are together, our respective bitterness is kept at bay. We are both using each other to provide th part of each other that we like. I could get her back. I know this. I've done it a dozen times. I know the formula. It's a tedious and painful process and I'll never do it again. I can't say I've gotten a silk hat out of a sow's ear, but it's better than nothing.

[goldenblunder]

Don't hate the guys man, you dont know what she has been saying to them.

I understand what you are saying.  Frankly, I am not sure what the status of the relationship with her ex when I first got involved.  For all I know, they weren't broken up.  But I knew they weren't married.  I knew they weren't living together.  I never once saw them together.  I was operating in good faith.

But the distinction in my case is that this guy knew me, he stayed at my house.  I have fed him.  He knew we were married, but was covertly texting her and emailing her and actively pursuing her.  Sure, I don't doubt she was leading him on, but come on man, he was at our place.  He saw that we were "together" as little as one week before she was over at his place.  The guy is scum and to the extent that I can get revenge upon him, I will.

[Manon46]

Revenge is only sweet for a very short time... .i can relate to that feeling... .there were times i was obsessed with getting even with her... .it would have done me no good... .she knew he was married... she should have stayed away... .but now she pays the price... and that is the best revenge... she wanted it... .well now she's got it... .and she deserves it... .

We all get what we deserve, and i can imagine how you feel about this guy taking advantage of your kindness and hospitality... .fact is there are people who don't have high moral standards,like we do... but there lies the problem... we project OUR feelings to others,because we are kind,and willing to help,and maybe too kind... .protect thouselves... .what you wish upon another will come back to you... .

Beast if your idea of life is living day by day and go for the good stuff than you have every right to do so... .i think a loving equal relation is the whole person... if someone picks me i would want him around when i am happy but also when i am sad for what reason so ever... .but tht for every person different... .just be carefull... i think you deserve better x

[turtlesoup]

Don't hate the guys man, you dont know what she has been saying to them.

I understand what you are saying.  Frankly, I am not sure what the status of the relationship with her ex when I first got involved.  For all I know, they weren't broken up.  But I knew they weren't married.  I knew they weren't living together.  I never once saw them together.  I was operating in good faith.

But the distinction in my case is that this guy knew me, he stayed at my house.  I have fed him.  He knew we were married, but was covertly texting her and emailing her and actively pursuing her.  Sure, I don't doubt she was leading him on, but come on man, he was at our place.  He saw that we were "together" as little as one week before she was over at his place.  The guy is scum and to the extent that I can get revenge upon him, I will.

Ok fair enough, you are entitled to your feelings, and I know if that were me, yes I would be mighty peeved, I do understand, but as a guy who has seen her exBPD with someone else in the early rounds (although I didn't eat at his table) she was playing us off against one another and telling me he was the pits.

I do understand I deffo do, and how you handle your feelings is your biz, its just that I've seen it in action and I know she manipulated all of us to one degree or another, with sex, with lies, with "you're the white knight". Im just saying, the blame is the BPDers and you can waste your energies hating a person who was maybe being fed a pack of lies about you. But, but, I can totally understand why this hurts, i'd feel the same.

[Beast98]

Manon, I want more than anything to find a partner in life. She's been 'gone' for over a year and a half and believe me I've been trying. She just got a job that is classifed as 'temp to hire'... .She works for a temp agency for 90 days and then if the company likes her she gets hired on permanent.

That's where I am. I'm going through a series of 'temp to hire' women. I really want a keeper. My kids are both gone now, I have my own house and lots to offer. I just need to replace exBPDgf, who replaced exw. Exgf has not been a factor. She doesn't show up, harrass me, nothing like that. Someday, I'll tell her that I've met someone that I'm getting serious with and she'll have to go away. I just haven't met that one yet.

[Beast98]

And TS... .I get my revenge everyday she's there and doesn't have my place as an escape route. I told her straight out the night she reconnected with me... ."Half the reason I let you stay at my house was because you needed help. The other was to f fugly over. But after you left it became clear that the best way to do that is to let him have you.

We were discussing love, finding love, etc. the other night. When she was at my house and it became clear to her that I was physically involved with someone else she sent me a text (twice) that said sexuality can't cure lonliness. I responded that it seemed to work just fine for her and some aren't lucky enough to find a new love in the blink of an eye. She said that sometimes an unzipped person can connect with a torn person. I think the translation from BPDeze is that since she knows she'll make every man she's with miserable, she may as well be with someone who's miserable already. If you knew the whole story, it would make a world of sense.

[turtlesoup]

And TS... .I get my revenge everyday she's there and doesn't have my place as an escape route. I told her straight out the night she reconnected with me... ."Half the reason I let you stay at my house was because you needed help. The other was to f fugly over. But after you left it became clear that the best way to do that is to let him have you.

We were discussing love, finding love, etc. the other night. When she was at my house and it became clear to her that I was physically involved with someone else she sent me a text (twice) that said sexuality can't cure lonliness. I responded that it seemed to work just fine for her and some aren't lucky enough to find a new love in the blink of an eye. She said that sometimes an unzipped person can connect with a torn person. I think the translation from BPDeze is that since she knows she'll make every man she's with miserable, she may as well be with someone who's miserable already. If you knew the whole story, it would make a world of sense.

Ok Beast, Im fortunate in that I didnt have to deal with knowing really where my exBPD was going for her jollies. I knew she was always trying to get back in touch with exs but they were all NC on her. Also she is fairly unhinged generally, so badly that no one is giving her the time of day atm or if they are she is unravelling so fast they aren't sticking around (im talking speaking to random objects for hours, off the planet, she has just deteriorated before my eyes).

I can understand your desire to get a kind of revenge on him. I spent the entire relationship hating an ex of my exBPD because she would slag him off and then she would write him love letters, it drove me nuts. However, since going on holiday with her, seeing her in full operation, the violence etc, anyone is welcome to that if they can stand it, my jealousy is 0.

[Beast98]

One key point I left out... .

She said that love isn't for everyone and sometimes an unzipped person can connect with a torn person. I think the translation from BPDeze is that since she knows she'll make every man she's with miserable, she may as well be with someone who's miserable already. If you knew the whole story, it would make a world of sense.

[Colombian Chick]

let him have you.

He already has her.

She said that sometimes an unzipped person can connect with a torn person. I think the translation from BPDeze is that since she knows she'll make every man she's with miserable, she may as well be with someone who's miserable already.

Is this why she was attracted to you? Because you were already a miserable man. If you were miserable, is that the reason why you had to drink?

[Beast98]

let him have you.

He already has her. Like I said. I know how to get her back, if I wanted to. She's jumped back and forth between us several times and the only way to stop the cycle is when one of us won't take her back.

She said that sometimes an unzipped person can connect with a torn person. I think the translation from BPDeze is that since she knows she'll make every man she's with miserable, she may as well be with someone who's miserable already.

Is this why she was attracted to you? Because you were already a miserable man. If you were miserable, is that the reason why you had to drink? Actually no, just the opposite. (these are educated opinions of course) I stimulated a lot within her, including her insecurities. She thought that every woman in the world wanted me, and that I was destined to leave her at any moment for someone better. So, in true borderline fashion, she always had a back-up, waiting in the wings. In him she found the opposite of me... .A much older man with no friends, never been married, no kids, few relatives (that don't like him either), no looks and no charm. A safety net. Her delusioned mind convinced her that I was only at the Mayo clinic to boink my exw, and my dying daughter was secondary... .Merely a convenient excuse. Even though my exw lived 3 blocks away from me.

As for the drinking, I've been a partier since a young age. But after she left me, after all our plans were set, I was devastated. But worse, she convinced me for months that we weren't broken up and that she would come home when we worked out our issues. He was simply a nice guy that gave her refuge when she convinced him she needed it. She did come back at some point (I was elated) and 8 days later left me for him in front of him. Shortly after I found out she was 'with' him the whole time. It was the lowest point of my life and for the next few months my social drinking became very unsociable. Had I not had the responsibilities I do, I would have checked myself in to a mental facility.

Hope that answers your condescending questions, saint that I'm sure you are.

[Colombian Chick]

Hope that answers your condescending questions, saint that I'm sure you are.

My nickname is Mother Theresa  .

I'm sorry you felt the questions were condescending. I'm asking questions from what you wrote on your posts. You stated that she told you she is attracted to 'torned' or 'unzipped' individuals. I assume that if she is attracted to these type of men and was attracted to you, that maybe there is something in you that she saw 'torned' or 'unzipped'.

Like I said. I know how to get her back, if I wanted to. She's jumped back and forth between us several times and the only way to stop the cycle is when one of us won't take her back.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't have someone who jumps back and forth between guys. This time is this guy, then it would have been another. She will always try to find in someone else what she can't get from herself or from you. Unfortunately the cycle still continues and she still goes back and forth between both of you.

I stimulated a lot within her, including her insecurities. She thought that every woman in the world wanted me, and that I was destined to leave her at any moment for someone better.

It's not that you stimulated these insecurities, this type insecurity is always present in a pwBPD no matter who they are with. You could be a Brad Pitt or a Danny DeVito, she will feel the same insecurities.

So, in true borderline fashion, she always had a back-up, waiting in the wings. In him she found the opposite of me... .A much older man with no friends, never been married, no kids, few relatives (that don't like him either), no looks and no charm.

It's not that she is finding your opposite, she is just finding anyone. This time she found someone not that charming, next she will, then she will again, then she won't, then she will, then she won't, then she won't, then she will. You see the patern? None of her actions have anything to do with the person she finds. The person is just a replacement, nothing special unfortunately.

Her delusioned mind convinced her that I was only at the Mayo clinic to boink my exw, and my dying daughter was secondary... .Merely a convenient excuse. Even though my exw lived 3 blocks away from me.

Again, it has nothing to do with you. They are just fears that emerge out of nowhere because she's mentally unstable. You could of been at a Vet's office with your dog and she would have said you're boiking the Vet. You see what I mean? You still believe her actions have something to do with you. But they are not. She is mentally unstable, nothing she does has anything to do with real emotions towards someone. She is just full of fear that has been there since way before you got there. You are just the new outlet.

It was the lowest point of my life and for the next few months my social drinking became very unsociable. Had I not had the responsibilities I do, I would have checked myself in to a mental facility.

It's great that you have the drinking out of cotrol. You are going through enough alrady.

[Interestedparty]

Beast, i can imagine that you still like and love the company from your ex g/f and that you are having huge feelings of revenge at fugly?

And also to jackass... .

But they didn't steel your wife, she made the choise to leave you for another person.

Beast as i am reading your posts it seems to me that you are using her for your own good...

That is not respectfull to any kind of human being... .using other people for your own benefit is the same what they are doing... .and what you have paid for...

I am sure that you can do better than that... .bitterness only leaves you bitter,angry,resentfull,and hurt you even more in the long run... .

Well said Manon... .

What comes around goes around... .karmic law... x

That Karmic law never fails.

We have a saying in our culture, 'If you don't hear... .you must feel'.

[Beast98]

I'm sorry you felt the questions were condescending. I'm asking questions from what you wrote on your posts. You stated that she told you she is attracted to 'torned' or 'unzipped' individuals. I assume that if she is attracted to these type of men and was attracted to you, that maybe there is something in you that she saw 'torned' or 'unzipped'.

She was referring to herself as unzipped, and him as torn. (My translation was my best guess based on all I know)

I got a lovely Easter card from her yesterday. Still painted white, still don't know why.

[Beast98]

Hope that answers your condescending questions, saint that I'm sure you are.

My nickname is Mother Theresa  .

I'm sorry you felt the questions were condescending. I'm asking questions from what you wrote on your posts. You stated that she told you she is attracted to 'torned' or 'unzipped' individuals. I assume that if she is attracted to these type of men and was attracted to you, that maybe there is something in you that she saw 'torned' or 'unzipped'.

Like I said. I know how to get her back, if I wanted to. She's jumped back and forth between us several times and the only way to stop the cycle is when one of us won't take her back.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't have someone who jumps back and forth between guys. This time is this guy, then it would have been another. She will always try to find in someone else what she can't get from herself or from you. Unfortunately the cycle still continues and she still goes back and forth between both of you.

I stimulated a lot within her, including her insecurities. She thought that every woman in the world wanted me, and that I was destined to leave her at any moment for someone better.

It's not that you stimulated these insecurities, this type insecurity is always present in a pwBPD no matter who they are with. You could be a Brad Pitt or a Danny DeVito, she will feel the same insecurities.

So, in true borderline fashion, she always had a back-up, waiting in the wings. In him she found the opposite of me... .A much older man with no friends, never been married, no kids, few relatives (that don't like him either), no looks and no charm.

It's not that she is finding your opposite, she is just finding anyone. This time she found someone not that charming, next she will, then she will again, then she won't, then she will, then she won't, then she won't, then she will. You see the patern? None of her actions have anything to do with the person she finds. The person is just a replacement, nothing special unfortunately.

Her delusioned mind convinced her that I was only at the Mayo clinic to boink my exw, and my dying daughter was secondary... .Merely a convenient excuse. Even though my exw lived 3 blocks away from me.

Again, it has nothing to do with you. They are just fears that emerge out of nowhere because she's mentally unstable. You could of been at a Vet's office with your dog and she would have said you're boiking the Vet. You see what I mean? You still believe her actions have something to do with you. But they are not. She is mentally unstable, nothing she does has anything to do with real emotions towards someone. She is just full of fear that has been there since way before you got there. You are just the new outlet.

It was the lowest point of my life and for the next few months my social drinking became very unsociable. Had I not had the responsibilities I do, I would have checked myself in to a mental facility.

It's great that you have the drinking out of cotrol. You are going through enough alrady.

CC, I've read all there is to read on BPD, including medical school textbooks and with what I know, I have an issue with your posts. You seem to have it in your mind that all borderlines do exactly the same things, for exactly the same reasons, at exactly the same times. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They may have common symptoms caused by similar traumas, but they are individuals as diverse as you and me. They function on many different levels. You don't know this person from Jesus, so I find it a tad disturbing that you profess to know exactly what she's done and why she's done it. I watch it manifest itself on a daily basis and can say with reasonable certainty that you really don't know what you're talking about. Rash generalities are the root of all prejudice.

Maybe I'm wrong and perhaps you are an all-knowing sage with wisdom that transcends the realm of mere mortals. But I doubt it. 

[Manon46]

I got a lovely Easter card from her yesterday. Still painted white, still don't know why.

By tomorrow you will be painted black and you also don't know why.

I still think you are wasting your good parts,and your good side, by giving it to her.

Don't you think that if you keep doing that, that any other woman won't notice.

If you need some one new, and you just left your exBPD and gave her your goods, would you notice her? Or is it possible that when you had a good time, you are not looking around,still cherishing the memories of what you came from earlier that day ?

Just a thought because you want to meet a nice,loving woman... .x

[Beast98]

Thanks manon, and I understand what you say. I do have feelings for this person, there's no questioning that fact. And I truly enjoy spening time with her. But it's very limited time, under circumstances that I control. I don't want her to be my gf ever again. I want someone else to be that. I just haven't found that person yet. But I am looking.

Til that time, I just don't understand why it's such a problem that I get some good from her without the bad. I leave that for the other guy. I spend next to no money on her and I have plenty of free time. And if the bad comes in to the picture (which by the way, I figure will at some point) then I stay away. My T, who has treated us both, seems to think that the BPD 'need' in this case is that she just likes spending time with me. And frankly, I don't have much else to do.

[Mousse]

I'm glad you are doing so well, Beast.  I can remember when she had you over a barrel, and it looks like you are doing well with keeping the FOG at bay, while maintaining a relationship with someone you like on terms you can live with.

My only concern is the same as manon's... ."replacing her" isn't really an option.  No healthy woman would want to be a "replacement" for a sick one, and even if one stepped up, you probably would not appreciate her under those terms.  If I were a woman interested in you, I would have serious misgivings about the drama that is still going on, if not in your bedroom, then certainly in your bathroom.  It's all too gamey.   If I were codependent, I might venture forth anyway, to prove what a "good woman" is like, but I would wonder how much you could love me for me, vs for being a viable replacement.  And at some point, crazy ex would have to stop being a regular part of your life (taking her places, having her in the house) - let's face it, she's not like a normal female friend I could accept.  Would you be able to distance yourself further for the sake of a new relationship?  If so, maybe you could start that before the new relationship as a prep step?  Maybe the reason you can't connect intimately with the women you have recently been intimate with has to do with the fact that you are still too close to her.

There's a place between NC and where you are... .maybe you want to explore it a bit?  Like - she can't come into the house since she messes it up and snoops?  She can take the car to the mechanic by herself?  Long discussions about love and sex could be replaced by how the 49'ers are doing?  

Still painted white, still don't know why.

You don't know why?  Is claiming to not know why part of the game?    Because of the past that you've shared with us, I think it's pretty clear she is courting you.  This is all part of the power play.  She's back in pull mode.  Only difference is you aren't quite so pull-able this time around, so she'll work harder for longer... .until you cave or until she finds a new guy who might adore her as much as you and BF did at first.   I don't know her either, but I know your posts about her    

You sound great, Beast.  Stay strong, and stay focused on your happiness.

  Mousse

[Beast98]

Thank you Mousse my friend. 

I'm sure this is a little wacky, though not by the standards I've come to know. Each woman I go out with, I get a little better at keeping the ex factor out of the equation. There are and have been lots of choices. And really the only way I see the next as a 'replacement' is in the sense of a companion I share my (and her) world with.

My progress has been slow not because I'm looking for the equivalent of the white side of ex, but because of a promise I made to myself... .That being that I refuse to hook up with a woman I wouldn't otherwise just to avoid being alone. My son left for the service in August, ex moved in from September through November and when she left it started a period in my life where I'm alone for the first time ever. I'm working at teaching myself how to do this. I started off hating it. Now I just dislike it. But it's tolerable and getting better all the time. If I'm patient, I believe that the universe will send me somebody... The right woman. Not just the RIGHT NOW woman. God knows they are everywhere. So for now, ex's limited (and positive) presence is welcome.

[Mousse]

And frankly, I don't have much else to do.

Why not focus more on the other lady (or ladies)?

[Mousse]

I see... .and I get where you are coming from  x

How do platonic relationships (or at least non-dating ones) with other women or even just friendships with guys pan out?  :)o you have people like that?  Can you cultivate them just by hanging out at some cool places or doing some activities?

There's got to be an alternative to a woman who thinks she can root around in your trash and leave her crap lying around to mark you as hers.  Like I said, I know you like her.  :)o you thing you could try another steps back from her, though, and see what happens?  I really think it impedes your chances of meeting a nice woman who will love you well.

  Mousse

[Beast98]

And frankly, I don't have much else to do.

Why not focus more on the other lady (or ladies)?

Each woman gets a level of focus that I'm comfortable with. I've entered an 'all about me' stage in my life for the very first time. But I can say that nothing I have between me and anyone else is affected one bit by ex. Those days are behind me.

I see... .and I get where you are coming from  x

How do platonic relationships (or at least non-dating ones) with other women or even just friendships with guys pan out?  Do you have people like that?  Can you cultivate them just by hanging out at some cool places or doing some activities?

There's got to be an alternative to a woman who thinks she can root around in your trash and leave her crap lying around to mark you as hers.  Like I said, I know you like her.  Could you try a couple more steps back from her, though?  I really think it impedes your chances of meeting a nice woman who will love you well.

  Mousse

Maybe I am a little twisted by being so entertained by her antics, such as the bathroom thing. I do have good platonic women friends and a few close buddies that I hang with from time to time. I also have a little restaurant/bar I frequent 'where everybody knows my name'. Truth is that much of my spare time is devoted to my show car and my dogs. I now have 4 of them, though only one by my choosing. Ex abandoned 2 with me and when my daughter moved from her house to an apartment, I got hers too. It's lots of work, but I love them all. And I work a lot. I have a home theater for my movies so over the top that I could charge admission, and I'm a musician.

It's a pretty full life. The small part that ex inhabits just happens to be the only thing I write about here. (and perhaps the most entertaining) 

[Mousse]

Good 

[Manon46]

   Okay Beast, i ll rest my case... .

I asume you know the best what is good for you, we are only expressing our concern,as we are also woman, when i was trying to date you i would certainly say, well Beast everything cool, but work it out with you ex gf who is in your bathroom, house,depends on you for the car etc...

Than we ll meet again... .see what i mean?... .To some one else it might look as if you didn't completely took off, and do you know what she will do when you say over and done...

I am sure if you are seeing a nice woman, you dont want your BPDexgf messing things up because she is seeing your taillights... .

But it is only concern and not judgement or doubting your mental health

Take good care of yourself and your dogs... .

[KateCat]

"Still painted white. Still don't know why."

I think you can expect the same "good" behavior from her at least as long as the man she lives with is battling late-stage colon cancer. (She's not inheriting from him, is she?)

I'm with the other women here who think you probably need to conclude your business with your ex, completely, before you can move on. And my guess is ex is going to do her best to make sure that doesn't happen.

[Beast98]

"Still painted white. Still don't know why."

I think you can expect the same "good" behavior from her at least as long as the man she lives with is battling late-stage colon cancer. (She's not inheriting from him, is she?)

I'm with the other women here who think you probably need to conclude your business with your ex, completely, before you can move on. And my guess is ex is going to do her best to make sure that doesn't happen.

Hard to say, but you're probably right.

fugly has just finished his chemo, has a new job and I guess is doing better. Dunno the prognosis and really don't care. I saw him at church last week and he looks 15 years older than when I met him in Oct, 2008. And the only thing she would stand to inherit from him is debt. The two of them seem to have a good thing going (in BPD) terms. Very low expectations on both sides.   

I would never tell a woman I was dating that I see her, ever. And I'm confident that if I do decide to get serious with anyone that I'll be able to walk away from her. I've done it before.

[KateCat]

I'm not an oncologist, but I'd give fugly 18 months. Just be aware.

[Beast98]

I'm not an oncologist, but I'd give fugly 18 months. Just be aware.

Oh I'd agree his days are numbered. They said in the surgery they could only get 30 of 34 nodes. Not my problem.

The thing is, she still looks good, is quite the seductress and can pretty much get any man she wants. She doesn't need me. My expectations in a woman are well beyond her capabilities.

[Colombian Chick]

Maybe I'm wrong and perhaps you are an all-knowing sage with wisdom that transcends the realm of mere mortals. But I doubt it.   

No I'm not all-knowing  . But, I at least now I can tell the difference between sick people and healthy people  .

CC, I've read all there is to read on BPD, including medical school textbooks and with what I know, I have an issue with your posts. You seem to have it in your mind that all borderlines do exactly the same things, for exactly the same reasons, at exactly the same times. Nothing could be farther from the truth. They may have common symptoms caused by similar traumas, but they are individuals as diverse as you and me. They function on many different levels. You don't know this person from Jesus, so I find it a tad disturbing that you profess to know exactly what she's done and why she's done it. I watch it manifest itself on a daily basis and can say with reasonable certainty that you really don't know what you're talking about. Rash generalities are the root of all prejudice.

All borderlines are different and unique, just like everyone else. My xBPDbf is a high functioning borderline, Bachelors Degree, Masters Degree, Behavioral Certification, and an incredibly articulate man. He comes from a well rounded family, his father is a lawyer and CEO for a major corporation, and 90% of his family have Masters Degrees and are respectable professionals. He is definately different from the low functioning borderline who can't keep a job, don't have a car, don't have a place to live, and some even self injure. Yes they are all different, to think they are all the exact same is ridiculous. But, their root cause is the same, fear.

Your BPDgf hasn't done much different from many of the other BPD's in this site. They cheat, lie, push/pull, and leave. Sometimes for someone new like in your case. Yes, your BPDgf is different from a lot of others to some extent. But at the end she's done the exact thing, left you devestated to the point where you began to drink. This is not what I assume, this is what you posted.

I've also done a lot of research and reading about this condition, from speaking with someone who's BPD and recovered to the spycholgist who's treated a pwBPD. I also do a lot of reading from spychologists, therapists, MFT, Counselors, and here. The man I loved suffered from this and I needed to understand what I was dealing with. I also had to learn a lot about myself so I do a lot of reading  on self help books, I've also gone to counseling, do yoga, and just focus on me and on what helps me feel good. So believe when I tell you that when I write a post 90% of the time I have a book next to me on the subject or a website on my computer. I don't write out of emotions or what I think, I write out of research and personal experience.

What you do or don't do with your BPDgf is your business. But when you come here and share it, be prepared for the opinions that come your way. They won't always be what you wanted to hear.

[Beast98]

Not many take adverse criticism as well as I do. But at the same time I have just as much a right to disagree with OPINIONS expressed. If I were to have any issue with you (which I really don't), it would be your tendancy to express your opinions, informed or otherwise, as fact.

Plus, I like a good occasional text joust with a well armed opponent. (That was meant as a compliment)

[KateCat]

You could be a Brad Pitt or a Danny DeVito, she will feel the same insecurities.

And, while we should never read the Hollywood gossip rags, if ever we did, we would probably hear that Mr. Pitt is regularly rumored to have drunk from the same concoction that put you on the floor.  

I don't see how it's really possible to reach a different conclusion than the one C C has posted here. And those "torn" or "unzipped" men who are most vulnerable to borderline women--the men who return for round after round of punishment and exploitation--often have a particular weakness, which seems to be the need to be special.

I've noticed that the men posting on this site who really are detaching from their borderline former partners seem accepting of the type of analysis C C gives here and do not usually feel that it is a personal criticism of them.

[Beast98]

I agree Kate, and with most of what CC says. However, I don't believe that I am or have ever been torn (unzipped was how she refers to herself), nor was I miserable at anytime before I met her.

And I certainly don't consider her sane. She's extremely damaged and dangerous to me. It's a risky undertaking... .Trying to experience her white side while protecting myself from the black. Can I say without a doubt that I know what I'm doing? Of course not. But other things I've tried didn't work either.

I don't need to FEEL special... .I already know that I am.  ;p

Nearly every woman I've ever known has treated me that way... .Except of course exBPDgf in her 'zone'. I just don't buy in to the premise that just because I was unlucky enough to have hooked up with one of these freaks, that I suddenly become a freak myself. And that only NC will defreakify me.

But then again I could be wrong.

[Manon46]

Defreakify 

What a word ! Hillarious... .

[Beast98]

Thanks manon. I have my moments. 

[Manon46]

I bet you do... .made me  really ... .can go to sleep now with a big smile on my face... .thanks

from here... wast just about to sign out, middle of the night here... .glad i read this one... .Defreakify... hahaha... .great

[KateCat]

Beast,

I have a final question about your continued involvement in a relationship that you maintain has no real future. Is it fair to her (minor) children, who do not see much of their mother I think, to take up any of her time? I know you have real feelings for these children and wanted to be in their lives. What now?

Is it a moral issue at all? Does it simply not matter because the mom spends most of her time with men anyway, so why not you too?

[KMTTP]

beast... .with all due respect, just reading through these posts... .you come off as very defensive.  You are going to get different opinions when you post on an open forum... ..   Just say thank you and if you disagree with their opinion so be it.  If you want to vent with out anyone's insight, then write in your freakin diary.  Now... on to my opinion in this open forum... . YOU need to move on and be able to be alone instead of playing around with your ex.  Using terms like "i control"  is ridiculous.  Who are you kidding... .knock the tough guy crap... .you are still in love with her or you are desperate enough to latch on... .to what?  Friendship? ... .sounds like a lovely friendship.   To fill a void?... .don't know.  But what I do know is that what you are doing is not healthy and to be honest... .it is odd. 

[Beast98]

LOL... .I never said I wasn't odd. I just don't think an occasional afternoon a couple of times a month is harming me or anyone else. She's nuts of course, and I like to share that stuff on here. Perhaps I do get a tad defensive when people read more into it than it really is, and imply that there's something terribly wrong with me because of it.

I've said it many times, sure I love her but have no interest in being with her. Has no one here ever spent time with someone knowing it's going nowhere? I sure have, and still do. So what?

Kate, her S13 lives in Mexico with his dad and she has scheduled visitations that I never interfere with. He provides a grounding influence for her that nobody else does. Why do you think I go out of my way to make sure her car is fully functional? NO, it's not at all my responsibility, but again, so what? I do things for reasons. But at this time I've made it clear to her that getting back together isn't nor ever will be one of them.

[FireFighter]

Painted white but insanity remains

Remind yourself that insanity is to paint you white... .not to mention black and all the other accompanied craziness and territory marking.  I know you know this already but sometimes it gets forgotten because being painted white is the carrot that is just so orange and tasty to go after but not quite in reach...  If only to figure out the right amount of distance to maximize her white splitting duration for you and black splitting duration for fugly.     

[Beast98]

FF... .I like the way you think. Maybe that's where I am. 

[Colombian Chick]

I don't see how it's really possible to reach a different conclusion than the one C C has posted here. And those "torn" or "unzipped" men who are most vulnerable to borderline women--the men who return for round after round of punishment and exploitation--often have a particular weakness, which seems to be the need to be special.

The particular weakness a pwBPD is attracted to is hard to define. Like beast mentioned before, each pwBPD is different and unique in their own illness. Some pwBPD may be attracted to someone who needs to feel speacial because of low selfesteem, another can be attracted to someone who needs to feel in control because of codependence issues, another can be attracted to someone who's afraid of being alone because of age or because they never had someone give them so much attention before, the reasons could be endless. I think the key here is figuring out why WE need to be in the relationship. What makes us want to stay. Once we figure that out, we will know what the pwBPD was attracted to. In my experience, what my BPDbf was attracted to was my need for a family, to belong. I divorced more than four years ago and I wanted to have a family, someone who I could come home too. I felt half empty without a partner. But that was my mistake, I let myself get to that point. I did nothing to feel complete on my own, how can I give my whole self to someone if I'm not whole to begin with. My BPDbf fed into my need for a family and chaos followed.

An emotionally healthy adult will not last more than a few months with a pwBPD. They will end the relationship early and not allow it to become dysfunctional. They will detach, they will be hurt, but they will move on. An emotionally unhealthy person will not move on, instead, they will come back round after round.

[ifsogirl26]

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