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Author Topic: Just angry about all her mess  (Read 6835 times)
hope4gr8erdayz

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« on: April 21, 2010, 12:06:29 AM »

I have finally got to the point that I realize that she is who she is and there is no change in site for her. Im just angry at all the mess that she has done. I know it is not healthy to reflect on all the bad a person has done but hind sight is 20/20, and im realizing some things even more now. When your with someone for 8yrs you learn their patterns and the little things they do. I know that she always sleeps with a t shirt and panties faithfully to bed every night. The only times she sleeps naked was when she had sex. I have just realized so many more times she would be naked when I came over or she would tell me she wants to come out and she is in a robe and is naked underneath. I just thought about the fact that as many places she has lived since I have known her( And that is a lot, considering pwBPD are unstable) that the number of men I know about 8-12 are possibly double that. I would tell her that I should not be able to call out 8-12 different names and her tell me I am the one with the problem, and im just suspicious and paranoid . It makes me sick to my stomach that someone can do the foul things to someone she has done to me. Lies and sex thats all she did even to the point she slept with at that time my best friend. Me and him are no longer friends, but that just made me realize that there is nothing she will not do to someone else to get her needs met. It is sad that a person will do horrilbe things to people and then blame them for their actions. It is crazy!
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 01:27:52 AM »

I am so sorry you are feeling this way, being on the outside of a bad relationship with a pwBPD makes us all reflect and sometimes the reflection that comes back hurts us even more.  Its insanely painful at times.  I see by your post you are coming to the point in your healing process where you literally shrugging your shoulders, scratching your head and saying `I dunno` its just as it is... .its a mess.  Their lives are a mess, they will always be a mess and our hearts can do nothing about it but grieve for them and for us.  You have to get to the acceptance bit where you can just walk away and say, `its BPD, there is nothing I can do for them, its done and dusted`.  It is truly heartbreaking and a pain I am very familiar with.  Keep strong...
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DAS
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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2010, 10:03:42 AM »

Ya. My exBPDgf slept with another guy in my bed while I was on vacation. I found pictures of him waist up naked that could only have been taken from between his legs. Makes me   

I too can hardly remember anything good about her. The only things in my mind right now are her disregard for me over the last month, the rages that I kept trying to help her through - I remember one night in... .October I think, when I went outside in my pyjamas and tried to get her to come inside. I did so much for her and gave her so much. And she repays me by sleeping with another guy in MY bed that we had shared.

PwBPD are sick, immoral, and manipulative. We truly are better off without them.

Cheers
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hope4gr8erdayz

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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2010, 11:02:53 AM »

It is just sad to me because she would be and do completely rotten things and then like the flip of a switch do something really nice and thoughtful. I came to the conclusion especially considering they are self centered that the good she did do she did to make herself feel better about all the foul things she did. It is just sad and wrong to play with peoples emotions and mind like they do.
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2010, 11:35:46 AM »

Excerpt
It makes me sick to my stomach that someone can do the foul things to someone she has done to me.

I am trully sorry you feel this way  x.

Now for the hard part. I am pretty direct so I don't sugar coat.

The only reason she was able to do the things she did to you is because YOU allowed it. If YOU don't change and work on your bounderies and selfesteem, this pattern of abuse will continue onto future relationships. Other people don't respect you unless you respect yourself first.

Excerpt
It is sad that a person will do horrilbe things to people and then blame them for their actions. It is crazy!

This is how I would write it to you:

It is sad that a YOU allow people to do horrilbe things to YOU and then YOU blame them for their actions. It is crazy!
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DAS
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« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2010, 12:27:16 PM »

Excerpt
It is sad that a person will do horrilbe things to people and then blame them for their actions. It is crazy!

This is how I would write it to you:

It is sad that a YOU allow people to do horrilbe things to YOU and then YOU blame them for their actions. It is crazy!

Disagree.

You don't choose or control how other people act. You only choose and control how you act. The person who does horrible things bears 100% of the burden of responsibility and "blame".

I get what you are saying though... .We allow significant levels of abuse and disrespect before we distance ourselves. But that it our choice.

So perhaps the line should be : "I chose to stay with a person who did horrible things to me for too long. It is crazy."
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« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2010, 12:46:46 PM »

[

I get what you are saying though... .We allow significant levels of abuse and disrespect before we distance ourselves. But that it our choice.

So perhaps the line should be : "I chose to stay with a person who did horrible things to me for too long. It is crazy."

I agree with this. That is what I did.  :'(
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JGirl2
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« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2010, 12:52:04 PM »

Well said... .And I totally agreed.

When I finally ended things with my ex, I was more angry at myself for allowing my ex to treat me in such a disrespectful way then I was at my ex.  I was angry at myself for allowing it to go on for over 20 years.   I realized I was a big part of the problem.
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« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 12:53:10 PM »

Well said... .And I totally agreed.

When I finally ended things with my ex, I was more angry at myself for allowing my ex to treat me in such a disrespectful way then I was at my ex.  I was angry at myself for allowing it to go on for over 20 years.   I realized I was a big part of the problem.

I was replying to DAS last post... .Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 01:47:10 PM »

While my soon-to-be ex uBPDw did not engage in sexual impropriety, I have also allowed her to bully, condescend, demand, guilttrip and browbeat to get her way. I am still partly allowing her to influence my actions because I am still having difficulty letting go of the memories of the really good times we shared interspersed with the daily grind of trying to make her happy. As Nons we very much contribute to our own experience of the BPD's behavior - by allowing them to cross our boundaries, by allowing their actions to influence our feelings, etc. But then, even in "normal" relationships, is it really unusual for the actions of your partner to influence how you feel? Isn't that part of a relationship? The hard part for me in my marriage was figuring out how to separate her emotional "stuff" from being related to me. Fixer/codependent/subservient traits in extremis on my part. Like you, I am angry at myself for not being emotionally stronger to either employ radical acceptance or make a clean and thorough break.
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DAS
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« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 02:23:33 PM »

Like you, I am angry at myself for not being emotionally stronger to either employ radical acceptance or make a clean and thorough break.

I'm not really angry at myself. I think I did the right thing both by engaging my exBPDgf and staying with her as long as I did. I was going to have the "if you no longer want to be with me, you'll have to leave" convo with her. You will notice my initial posts were on the staying board.

Finding evidence of the cheating was just the flashpoint. I still hold her as 100% responsible for the way things fell out. If she had just been honest with me, things could have been very different now.
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ron7127
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 02:24:12 PM »

I used to be angry at myself for having allowed this to happen. Now, I realize that being angry at myself serves no purpose. I am human. I made a mistake. My mistake was nothing like the horrible things she did. It was naive, and it was not healthy. But, it was not pure evil, as her actions were.

In any case, I agree, it was a  learning expierience. I had no idea there were people in the world like this. Now, I know and will take steps to avoid ever becoming involved with this type of person again.
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2010, 03:04:35 PM »

Excerpt
You don't choose or control how other people act. You only choose and control how you act. The person who does horrible things bears 100% of the burden of responsibility and "blame".

I completely agree, you don't control how other people act. And, you've proved my point, by only choosing and controling how YOU act, if YOU choose to stay with an emotinally abusive person, and you have not set bounderies to protect yourself you ALLOW abuse. If you choose to leave or set bounderies that can't be crossed, you DON'T allow abuse.

You can't change or control another person, you can only control and change YOU. The abuser takes 50% of the blame and the enabler takes the remaining 50%. They can't abuse you if you don't allow it.

Excerpt
So perhaps the line should be : "I chose (and therefor allowed) to stay with a person who did horrible things to me for too long. It is crazy."

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lieslieslies
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2010, 03:14:52 PM »

Ya. My exBPDgf slept with another guy in my bed while I was on vacation. I found pictures of him waist up naked that could only have been taken from between his legs. Makes me   

I too can hardly remember anything good about her. The only things in my mind right now are her disregard for me over the last month, the rages that I kept trying to help her through - I remember one night in... .October I think, when I went outside in my pyjamas and tried to get her to come inside. I did so much for her and gave her so much. And she repays me by sleeping with another guy in MY bed that we had shared.

PwBPD are sick, immoral, and manipulative. We truly are better off without them.

Cheers

great das,


I am L
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ron7127
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2010, 03:49:35 PM »

It does get complicated, however, when there are entanglements , like kids, mortgages, wedding vows etc. I think this is what confuses us about the tolerance for abuse. I know for me, the signs of abusiveness did not show up until after entanglement. So, the decision to get out took some time.
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2010, 03:51:28 PM »

Excerpt
You don't choose or control how other people act. You only choose and control how you act. The person who does horrible things bears 100% of the burden of responsibility and "blame".

I completely agree, you don't control how other people act. And, you've proved my point, by only choosing and controling how YOU act, if YOU choose to stay with an emotinally abusive person, and you have not set bounderies to protect yourself you ALLOW abuse. If you choose to leave or set bounderies that can't be crossed, you DON'T allow abuse.

You can't change or control another person, you can only control and change YOU. The abuser takes 50% of the blame and the enabler takes the remaining 50%. They can't abuse you if you don't allow it.

Excerpt
So perhaps the line should be : "I chose (and therefor allowed) to stay with a person who did horrible things to me for too long. It is crazy."


Totally agree...

What I have realized about me was that it wasn't just my ex that I allowed to walk all over me.  For years at work I was "too nice" and took on more projects then others... etc.  I tended to often to complete stuff others left unfinished and be the total go to person. I did too much and I often felt like people were not carrying their load.  On one of my jobs it got to were they expected me to do most of the work... .That was when I finally started saying "no".   It really didn't  come across too well and our group had many problems.  But like in my marriage by always trying to make things work and doing most of the work I really was responsible for the position I found myself in. We teach people how to treat us.  That's something I have been working hard on to change about me. 
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2010, 03:58:05 PM »

Excerpt
It does get complicated, however, when there are entanglements , like kids, mortgages, wedding vows etc. I think this is what confuses us about the tolerance for abuse. I know for me, the signs of abusiveness did not show up until after entanglement. So, the decision to get out took some time.

Yes, the tolerance levels change when there are children envolved  :'(. It is twice as hard for the children, since not only do their parents seperate, but they are left with the emotional scars from witnessing the dysfunction.
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2010, 04:01:26 PM »

Excerpt
That's something I have been working hard on to change about me.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

It isn't easy to have to view yourself as part of the problem. A lot of people choose to stay in the mentality that it's the pwBPD the one with ALL the problems. Because it's easier to point the finger then to have to take responsability for the decisions and actions they took. Sometimes having to dig into your own issues, is harder then digging into someone elses.
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Manon46
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« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2010, 04:02:44 AM »

. We teach people how to treat us. 

I like that, it is a a good way to look at the world we are in... i think with that way of looking outside, we can quit blaming, being angry, hurt...

If anyone treats us bad, we can look and say, hey what was i teaching him, it is a more active way of interacting with people, without getting angry at ourselves... .for failing or accepting or whatever we blame ourselves for... .it is a kind way of taking responsability of our issues...

And if we teach and some one does not want to learn, we can gently walk out... .

Thank you   
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2010, 11:32:56 AM »

Excerpt
And if we teach and some one does not want to learn, we can gently walk out... .

I think that's the hard part that a lot of people want to avoid. There are a lot of people out there that have difficulty learning to stand alone and be alone. They often make the common mistake of assuming that being alone and lonely are the same. The thought of being alone with themselves is so scary that they hold on to dysfunctional relationships with tooth and nails.
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Manon46
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2010, 12:09:13 PM »

I agree with you CC, the idea of being alone and lonely is scary and maybe not a situation to look forward to.

Don't you think that if you are becoming aware of the fact that you want to teach, that you first have to know what it is that you want and what you want to teach.

You have to look deeper inside yourself to find the way you want to be treated.

It will keep the focus to yourself and the more you think about it ,the stronger you will be convinced of how you want to be treated. Once you know you maybe will be less scared ... just a thought...

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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2010, 12:37:39 PM »

Couldn't agree with you more Manon46  x,

I read on a book something I wanted to share:

"Taking responsability for everything in your life gives you the power to change it. Taking responsability for nothing ensures that you'll stay a victim"

David Viscott


When you take responsability, you can learn to change, when you change, you can teach.
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Interestedparty
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« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2010, 12:54:17 PM »

I think that's the hard part that a lot of people want to avoid. There are a lot of people out there that have difficulty learning to stand alone and be alone. They often make the common mistake of assuming that being alone and lonely are the same. The thought of being alone with themselves is so scary that they hold on to dysfunctional relationships with tooth and nails.

Excellent, excellent point CC... .

When you see someone like that, it is painful to witness.

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hope4gr8erdayz

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« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2010, 01:37:53 AM »

In any relationship there is that back and forth of good and bad. I am aware that I have a part in staying to long but I wanted to try and make it work. Trying to help her but only meeting resistance and lies and betrayal. I accept that I allowed the abuse by staying, but if a person decides for themselves to do something rotten to you, then blame you for the rotten thing they did to you, with any emotional and mental investment that is rough. I am having a hard time swallowing that pill. A decision is a decision regardless of the outcome. In the cases of people who deal with this type of personality, hurt is usually the outcome of the pwBPD's decision. I figure adults can sit down and talk about their issues. I now know that you cant have that with a pwBPD, because of their emotional immaturity. So this was a serious lesson for me. I mean hell how often can someone say they dated someone with a personality disorder and especially one as severe as BPD. I am angry about it all because I had pure intent and did'nt mean her any harm or hurt. I am still just angry about all her mess because of how I hurt now. It is not fair or right and it is sad. There is a saying "Hurt People, Hurt People". Im angry now, but I will become less angry as time goes on, and I heal. I needed to get that off my heart.
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Manon46
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« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2010, 05:34:57 AM »

I think that us non't got into these relationships also with a kind of childish,immature,naive way of thinking...

The kind of fairy tale version of real love...

To find out that that doesn't exist is a big pill to swallow, and even a harder lesson...

And i don't think we have to blame ourselves for that... it is tempting to blame the BPD...

The do and did hurt us in many ways... .and very very deep... when we get over that we have learned that there is no such love, and fairy tales do not exist... so they prevend us from going into the same kind of relation again...

They prevend us from future pain, either way it is a hard lesson and very painfull  
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Colombian Chick
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« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2010, 12:05:05 PM »

I think that us non't got into these relationships also with a kind of childish,immature,naive way of thinking... The kind of fairy tale version of real love...

To find out that that doesn't exist is a big pill to swallow, and even a harder lesson...

And i don't think we have to blame ourselves for that... it is tempting to blame the BPD...

The do and did hurt us in many ways... .and very very deep... when we get over that we have learned that there is no such love, and fairy tales do not exist... so they prevend us from going into the same kind of relation again...

They prevend us from future pain, either way it is a hard lesson and very painfull  

Manon46,

I completely agree with you. There is a book I've read called "How to be an Adult in Relationships" by David Richo and I wanted to share what I read in one of the chapters:

USING THE "EVEN THOUGH" TECHNIQUE

Answer yes or no aloud: Would you eat strawberries you knew to be deliciously sweet if you were seriously allergic to them? Would you eat mushrooms that looked delicious if you knew they might be poisonous? Woudl you attempt to read a book you kew to be interesting if it was written in a language you did not understand? Would you stay in a relationship with someone you loved if you were unhappy?

Would you blame the strawberries for your allergic reaction, the mushrooms for poisoning you. or the book for confussing you? Do you blame your partner for your unhappiness?

Let's look closely at the questions. Each object offers advantages but with one serious deficit. Adults can let go of the good things if the one bad thing outweighs them: "Even though I'm crazy about you and you're a great provider, I can't stay with you while you are such a liar and refuse help." Are you seduced by the advantages of a partner while you disregard, deny, or liet to yourself about his/her disadvantages? Or do you act according to the full truth, even though you wished it were not so? How much self-nurturance and tolerance for grief it takes to disregard that "even though"!

Here are the words of an adult: "Even though you please me sexually, even though we have been together so long, even though I don't know whether I will ever find someone else, I have to let you go because you do not meet me at my soul/adult level."

Here are the words of a codependent: "Because you please me sexually, because we have been together for so long, because I don't know whether I will ever find someone else, I can't let you go - even though you do not meet me at my soul/ adult level."

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ron7127
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« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2010, 12:48:03 PM »

Yes, but this presumes the flags were unfurled before enmeshment. I think it is good to take responsibility, but an error to ignore that these folks are master mask wearers during courtship.

Lesson learned, do not trust completely. Makes for a nice, relaxing way of leading your life and conducting relationships, eh?
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Manon46
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« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2010, 04:05:43 PM »

There must have been flags unfurled before enmeshment.

We made a choice not to listen to our 'gut' for all different reasons...

Mostly because we wanted so much this fairy tail love...

I know I shut myself up whenever I recognized a Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  even though I didn't at the time know what it was.

They are masters in wearing masks... .but you see what you want to see...

So the lesson learned is that you have to absolutely 100 procent trust yourself...

If you can manage that, you can live a very relaxing life... know what you have learned... know that if your gut is telling you, you trust that! Once you do and don't accept 'strange'behavior you will rule out BPD/NPD before enmeshment... and attract healthy people...

Trust must be earned and when violated not given another chance, and again and again and again... .

Trust yourself and don't accept any behavior other than your own, now matter how beautifull it is wrapped in to x
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hope4gr8erdayz

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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2010, 02:22:13 AM »

I agree that fairy tale love does'nt exist. Real love starts from a decision two people make towards each other for legitimate reasons. Not all love is perfect as im sure we would agree, but love is both good and bad at times. The thing that im still angry about is the fact that she did those rotten things to me, all the while playing the innocent role. I am not with her anymore, but hell it takes time to heal especially when you have been through the emotional and mental mess. Hell i would have rather it been some physical bruising, that heals faster. It is ok to be angry because that is also part of the process. When you get hurt you sometimes get angry that is the case with me right now and im just expressing it. Do I blame her? Yes I do blame her for her decisions. I also look at the fact that I stayed and became a person that I am not and dont even like at the moment. The later, I realize that I alone bare, and am dealing with. It does'nt change the reality of what happened, happened, and I am where I am now, and I have to move forward. So hey I have had my first run in with an emotional and mental predator, now I know.
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2010, 04:59:37 AM »

Look, its too simplistic to say that we "allowed" the abuse and the cheating to happen. Living with a BPD, what traps you is the idealization and total love they give you first up.  When the cracks start to appear, you give them the benefit of the doubt, because you can't believe that a person who loves you so much, really means the derogatory thing they just said to you.

We don't know about  BPD at this stage.  The decline of their behaviour is slow and insideous.  The make-up sex falsely reassurres us that this won't happen again.  The loss of self esteem is also slow and insideous.  You start to wonder is it YOU? What am I doing wrong, to make her so?  Your efforts go unnapreciated so you try harder.  Its not that we' re weak, were just bewildered like kangaroos staring at the oncoming headlights of a truck... .surely it will stop before it hits me (again).

It is really difficult without knowing about BPD to set boundaries.
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